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Home: Non Football Related: General Chat:
Catalan Referendum

 

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prorege
Man City Transfer Target!


Oct 28, 2017, 11:14 AM

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Post #26 of 36 (1171 views)
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Re: [007Dale] Catalan Referendum [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

It is true that some politicians presented the Scottish referendum as a once in a generation event. However, some politicians, including the then Prime Minister, also made the vow that remaining in the U.K was the only way for Scotland to retain EU membership. Some who voted No, myself included, thought that was important.

Given the fundamental change in the situation with the EU, I would fully support another referendum on Scottish independence. I am not sure how I would vote but the mistruths peddled at the time justify a further vote.


007Dale
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Oct 28, 2017, 11:21 AM

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Post #27 of 36 (1170 views)
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Re: [prorege] Catalan Referendum [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


In Reply To
It is true that some politicians presented the Scottish referendum as a once in a generation event. However, some politicians, including the then Prime Minister, also made the vow that remaining in the U.K was the only way for Scotland to retain EU membership. Some who voted No, myself included, thought that was important.

Given the fundamental change in the situation with the EU, I would fully support another referendum on Scottish independence. I am not sure how I would vote but the mistruths peddled at the time justify a further vote.


Well, as a citizen of the United Kingdom I don't support you having another vote. I supported you having your vote last time, and wanted you to stay, but we can't have all of this destabilising nonsense again.

I will also point out that had the EU vote been closer, it could have been England and Wales being kept in the EU against its wishes because of the Scots and Irish. That's what being part of one country is about.


steveking
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Oct 28, 2017, 11:34 AM

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Post #28 of 36 (1166 views)
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Re: [007Dale] Catalan Referendum [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


In Reply To
I will also point out that had the EU vote been closer, it could have been England and Wales being kept in the EU against its wishes because of the Scots and Irish.

I would think there are not enough votes in Scotland and Northern Ireland for that to be true. If the vote had been for remain it would have required England to have voted that way too or at least have voted remain in greater numbers than it did.


PaulC
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Oct 28, 2017, 11:35 AM

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Post #29 of 36 (1166 views)
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Re: [007Dale] Catalan Referendum [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


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I will also point out that had the EU vote been closer, it could have been England and Wales being kept in the EU against its wishes because of the Scots and Irish. That's what being part of one country is about.


And the leader of the English Leave campaign - Farage - had already announced that a narrow majoirty to remain would not be the end of it.

Either you accept the right of people to determine their destiny based on all current circumstances, or you don't.

At the moment there is no likelihood of a second Scottish referendum because a majority does not want one - according to the polls. But say in 5 years time, if we leave the EU and Scotland, as predicted, becomes the part of the UK worst affected by England's decision, there may be an increasing demand for a referendum. Who are you to deny the people of Scotland the right to do what they believe is best for their country?


http://www.heraldscotland.com/...ves_EU_without_deal/


(This post was edited by PaulC on Oct 28, 2017, 11:39 AM)


007Dale
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Oct 28, 2017, 11:49 AM

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Post #30 of 36 (1154 views)
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Re: [PaulC] Catalan Referendum [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

In order for a legally binding vote on Scottish independence two key things need to happen:
1. The Scots must want the vote.
2. The British Government has to agree to it.

Both things were in place last time, neither are in place presently and the second part may well not be in place for many, many years.

As I say, a decision on IndyRef2 has implications on the whole of the UK, hence why part 2 is as important as part 1.


PaulC
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Oct 28, 2017, 12:01 PM

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Post #31 of 36 (1139 views)
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Re: [007Dale] Catalan Referendum [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


In Reply To
In order for a legally binding vote on Scottish independence two key things need to happen:
1. The Scots must want the vote.
2. The British Government has to agree to it.

Both things were in place last time, neither are in place presently and the second part may well not be in place for many, many years.

As I say, a decision on IndyRef2 has implications on the whole of the UK, hence why part 2 is as important as part 1.


Of course it is. But you are arguing that if, in response to changed circumstances since 2014, a majority of Scots decide they want a referendum and independence they should be denied because they had a referendum some time in the past.

How does that opinion sit with the notion of democracy?

I'm certain that if England had been kept in the EU by Scotland there would now be an unstoppable clamour for a further referendum if there remained an English majority to leave..


(This post was edited by PaulC on Oct 28, 2017, 12:02 PM)


stewarty
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Oct 29, 2017, 9:38 AM

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Post #32 of 36 (1042 views)
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Re: [007Dale] Catalan Referendum [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


In Reply To
In order for a legally binding vote on Scottish independence two key things need to happen:
1. The Scots must want the vote.
2. The British Government has to agree to it.

Both things were in place last time, neither are in place presently and the second part may well not be in place for many, many years.

As I say, a decision on IndyRef2 has implications on the whole of the UK, hence why part 2 is as important as part 1.



Re. 1. above, dont fully rely on comments by Ruth Davidson et al. Just repeating the same phrase over and over again doesnt always necessarily mean its fully factual.

Many Scots do want another referendum but are content to see how Brexit pans out first. Signs to date do not fully inspire confidence. Perhaps with a bit more common sense applied and less thoughts of "empire re-building" by those supposedly in power some confidence and even reality could be improved.


mick
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Oct 29, 2017, 5:59 PM

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Post #33 of 36 (985 views)
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Re: [stewarty] Catalan Referendum [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

Not quite sure why a thread about the Catalan Referendum has morphed into one about the Scottish and EU referenda as both of those have their own threads for people who want to go over old ground.

Back in Catalonia the situation does not seem to be improving since the declaration of independence and the Belgian minister for asylum and migration has said that Mr Puigdemont may be able to seek asylum in Belgium should the need arise. http://www.telegraph.co.uk/...-catalan-government/


DonQuixote
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Oct 29, 2017, 8:14 PM

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Post #34 of 36 (948 views)
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Re: [mick] Catalan Referendum [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

First blood to Catalunya tonight....


Girona 2 Real Madrid 1 - wallop!




FA Vase semi programme wanted: 2001 Taunton v Clitheroe.



PaulC
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Oct 29, 2017, 9:42 PM

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Post #35 of 36 (922 views)
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Re: [DonQuixote] Catalan Referendum [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


In Reply To
First blood to Catalunya tonight....


Girona 2 Real Madrid 1 - wallop!


Fewer than 20% of the Girona team scored so I think that's a win for Madrid.


DonQuixote
Chelsea Transfer Target


Oct 29, 2017, 10:33 PM

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Post #36 of 36 (911 views)
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Re: [PaulC] Catalan Referendum [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

I was out there when they played Barça last month and
tried to get tickets - €300 a throw so bollocks to that.




FA Vase semi programme wanted: 2001 Taunton v Clitheroe.


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