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Home: Ground Hopping & Programmes: Programme Editing & Collecting:
Sticky for Southern League Physical Non Issuers 2017 - 2018

 

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acmold
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Aug 16, 2017, 6:47 AM

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Post #76 of 102 (4985 views)
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Re: [Beano] Sticky for Southern League Physical Non Issuers 2017 - 2018 [In reply to] Can't Post or

I think the crux of this is at the end of your post, if 80 are sold. When I did my 'costings' yesterday when you get below requiring 100 programmes in total the unit cost gets very high, when you get down to requiring 50 it probably gets prohibited and causes a big lost over the season not matter how you print the programmes. If those who still want programmes in a hard form think so strongly about it there time would probably be better spent lobbying the leagues and F.A. to drop the requirements that make printing programmes so expensive, the static advert requirements (usually in colour) and bits and bobs that take up space that cost money but clubs get no return from. If just three pages were dropped the clubs could get three more pages of adverts in (if they could find anyone!) and print them in B&W not colour. Or even do a 4 page programme that would cost around 25p to print. The rules about freebies should be dropped by leagues as well, most programmes that are put in dressing rooms end up wet on the floor. When you add up how many have to be given away in many leagues the freebies outnumber those that are paid for.


Beano
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Aug 16, 2017, 10:47 AM

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Post #77 of 102 (4918 views)
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Re: [acmold] Sticky for Southern League Physical Non Issuers 2017 - 2018 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

Exactly. Ashford were spending 70 per match on printing programmes (I think the minimum order was 50 copies) but were only selling 10, so were losing 50 per match. It makes sense for them to move online because they will be over 1,000 better off.

At Prescot, there is a significant number of paid-for adverts to go alongside the mandatory ones and this helps to offset the printing cost. Sales have gone up because supporters are enjoying the content and at 2.00, people perceive the programme as being decent value. But it helps that Prescot's gates are so much higher; there were 290 at Cables on Saturday and 107 at Ashford last night. I appreciate that midweek matches often draw lower crowds, but I would have expected Prescot to get more than 200 had they played at home last night.

In the Evo-Stik Northern Premier League, there are four mandatory full-page adverts and three optional ones. That's one extra sheet of A4 paper in every programme on the compulsory adverts.

In terms of printing, it is no cheaper to print 'at home' especially on a domestic printer and the result is not as good - you end up with white borders around the pages and photos cut in half. I think the current direction of travel - where clubs can do what is best for them - is the right one.


acmold
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Aug 16, 2017, 3:34 PM

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Post #78 of 102 (4836 views)
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Re: [Beano] Sticky for Southern League Physical Non Issuers 2017 - 2018 [In reply to] Can't Post or

Where I went on Saturday the club are issuing for the first time, they approached a printer who quoted 70 to do a programme. They only wanted 20 / 25 copies so it seems any job below 70 may not worth while to many printers. In the end the just ran off one sheet in colour (not even double sided) at home, even then they needed to sell around 15 to break even. It was rather colourful so would have drunk ink to print.


mick
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Aug 16, 2017, 9:17 PM

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Post #79 of 102 (4772 views)
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Re: [Chris1963] Sticky for Southern League Physical Non Issuers 2017 - 2018 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


In Reply To
If people pay up to 10 (or whatever) to watch a Southern League game then it is reasonable to argue that they are entitled to a paper programme.


What about people who pay 80 to watch a top level game in Spain? Maybe they should be entitled to get one on parchment Angelic

Or maybe most people who go to football go because they want to watch the game Shocked.


Beano
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Aug 17, 2017, 10:30 PM

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Post #80 of 102 (4638 views)
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Re: [jrev61] Sticky for Southern League Physical Non Issuers 2017 - 2018 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


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Another thought. Do these clubs doing an online programme, let the advertisers know, and do they cut advertising rates as these no longer have to reflect the costs of having to print the advert? I suspect there will be some angry advertisers who thought they were advertising in a paper programme and have found they are in effect paying for website advertising.


The online-only programme for Ashford Town (Middlesex) v Arlesey Town has so far been viewed 156 times in 72 hours, while the attendance for the match itself was 107.

From a marketing perspective, the club could argue that their advertisers are getting a better deal from the move online, particularly if only selling around 10 copies per match.


jrev61
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Aug 18, 2017, 11:49 AM

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Post #81 of 102 (4575 views)
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Re: [Beano] Sticky for Southern League Physical Non Issuers 2017 - 2018 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


In Reply To

In Reply To
Another thought. Do these clubs doing an online programme, let the advertisers know, and do they cut advertising rates as these no longer have to reflect the costs of having to print the advert? I suspect there will be some angry advertisers who thought they were advertising in a paper programme and have found they are in effect paying for website advertising.


The online-only programme for Ashford Town (Middlesex) v Arlesey Town has so far been viewed 156 times in 72 hours, while the attendance for the match itself was 107.

From a marketing perspective, the club could argue that their advertisers are getting a better deal from the move online, particularly if only selling around 10 copies per match.


The 156 views will probably be several views from the same people, so only 60 or so people have looked at it. Really just a match review on the website in programme format. Of course more people will look at an online prog. as it's free! Those same people would also look at a match review in the news section and regularly browse the website as they are fans of the club or possibly of the visiting club.


President
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Aug 18, 2017, 4:32 PM

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Post #82 of 102 (4449 views)
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Re: [Workington FC] Sticky for Southern League Physical Non Issuers 2017 - 2018 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

Sadly this season winchester city will be only issuing programmes on line only ,this is down to cost and lack of sponsorship to subsidize the programme our first on line was 29 pages inc the compulsory southern league adverts pages we have to include


Ostrich
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Aug 18, 2017, 7:02 PM

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Post #83 of 102 (4412 views)
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Re: [President] Sticky for Southern League Physical Non Issuers 2017 - 2018 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

Our local BBC Points West programme has just run an feature on the demise of programmes, focusing on Shortwood United.

If I recall correctly (short term memory getting ropey Sly):

Shortwood were losing 1.5 to 2k per annum on it (it looks like it was a full glossy production though)

The print company said "No hard feelings"

Some pundit said that the generic "From the Dugout" column being replaced by an on-line video interview with the manager would be more relevant.

Cinderford's programme is on-line, but no mention of discontinuing the printed version so far.

..... and very interestingly, the final throw-away comment was:

Shortwood might consider installing a printer so that hard-copies of the on-line edition might be made available on match days.

Only mooted, mind you, nothing definite.


acmold
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Aug 19, 2017, 7:57 PM

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Post #84 of 102 (4250 views)
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Re: [Ostrich] Sticky for Southern League Physical Non Issuers 2017 - 2018 [In reply to] Can't Post or

Welton Rovers of the Western League are issuing a one page A3 double sided programme 'folded down" according to a club Tweet. All the info you want and no waste they state. Pictures of it @WeltonRoversFC


stewarty
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Aug 19, 2017, 8:41 PM

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Post #85 of 102 (4230 views)
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Re: [acmold] Sticky for Southern League Physical Non Issuers 2017 - 2018 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

My tuppence worth on the topic. I am involved with a minor club in Scotland who have been producing programmes for over 30 seasons now. We have varied the programme over the years, from 8 to 28 pages and colour covers. colour ads etc. It is certainly true that getting adverts these days is harder though with us , we do have a lot of billboards around the pitch which some advertisers have switched to. Sales are certainly lower than they sued to be, but we produce a plain black print on white paper issue for just a pound. We have a good local printer who prints and collates them for us, and has down for the best part of 20 years. His prices, thankfully, have risen just marginally in that time. Though we (the club) dont make a fortune from the programme, the small team that work on it enjoy it (I think !) and it makes a few pounds at least and provides a service which is till valued by many of our regular supporters.
Maybe we are in a minority these days ?


acmold
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Aug 22, 2017, 5:05 PM

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Post #86 of 102 (3878 views)
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Re: [stewarty] Sticky for Southern League Physical Non Issuers 2017 - 2018 [In reply to] Can't Post or

I have just had a chat / message on Facebook with AM Print who do a number of programmes for Southern, Hellenic and Western clubs. They are producing mainly 16 / 20 / 24 page programmes for their clubs this season. Colour on the outside and monochrome on the inside. They also think that a number of leagues are now allowing sponsors adverts in monochrome and not insisting on colour.


jrev61
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Aug 26, 2017, 10:45 PM

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Post #87 of 102 (3471 views)
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Re: [acmold] Sticky for Southern League Physical Non Issuers 2017 - 2018 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

St. Neots Town did a paper programme today. Not sure whether it was just because they were playing Hereford, or because the last attempt at doing an online programme was not a success.
Also Irchester United did a proper programme on Friday, despite saying they were going down the online route. Maybe they have finally worked out that they are not in the Southern League!


kirby knitters
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Sep 15, 2017, 10:41 AM

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Post #88 of 102 (2708 views)
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Re: [kirby knitters] Sticky for Southern League Physical Non Issuers 2017 - 2018 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

I thought there may have been different rules regarding programmes for FAC games.


Cinderford Town have announced it will be online only tomorrow for the FAC 2Q game with Hartley Wintney.



Kirby Muxloe FC.
Former proud members of The Midland Football League.


acmold
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Sep 15, 2017, 12:20 PM

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Post #89 of 102 (2676 views)
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Re: [kirby knitters] Sticky for Southern League Physical Non Issuers 2017 - 2018 [In reply to] Can't Post or


In Reply To
I thought there may have been different rules regarding programmes for FAC games.


Cinderford Town have announced it will be online only tomorrow for the FAC 2Q game with Hartley Wintney.


I've seen a number of Tweets from different clubs for different competitions saying their programme is PDF only, has the rule(s) been altered but are the Southern League the only ones to actually put something in writing.

As an aside I've certainly heard of one club who still do a paper programme but have been told they are only going to issue when they have to so county cup ties and games of that ilk will be paperless. I know this has annoyed a number of Groundhoppers in the past as mundane games get paper but potentially interesting games don't and they won't go without paper.


GRIFFON
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Sep 15, 2017, 12:38 PM

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Post #90 of 102 (2664 views)
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Re: [acmold] Sticky for Southern League Physical Non Issuers 2017 - 2018 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

I don't know if the rules have been changed but clubs always had to send a copy of their programme for F.A. games.


acmold
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Sep 15, 2017, 6:23 PM

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Post #91 of 102 (2569 views)
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Re: [GRIFFON] Sticky for Southern League Physical Non Issuers 2017 - 2018 [In reply to] Can't Post or


In Reply To
I don't know if the rules have been changed but clubs always had to send a copy of their programme for F.A. games.


Many people will tell you they have been at a game where there was no programme but one will have been sent to the relevant authorities to avoid a fine. The Gwent County is the prime example where the print run at many clubs is 2 or 3 copies and none are available for spectators.

I also recall when I was involved with a club in the old Chiltonian League I used to get programmes that were sent into the league to cover the rule, on a number of occasions I managed to get programmes for Travellers for a game they had attended but none appeared to be at the actual match.


GRIFFON
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Sep 15, 2017, 6:57 PM

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Post #92 of 102 (2552 views)
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Re: [acmold] Sticky for Southern League Physical Non Issuers 2017 - 2018 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

Very true, a couple of clubs in the Mid Comb were notorious for doing it and were fined as well whenever it was noticed by the powers that be!Sly


Tim
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Sep 15, 2017, 8:10 PM

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Post #93 of 102 (2534 views)
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Re: [GRIFFON] Sticky for Southern League Physical Non Issuers 2017 - 2018 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

Paulton Rovers are offering a choice of online or paper programmes this season.


gcnc
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Sep 15, 2017, 10:16 PM

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Post #94 of 102 (2487 views)
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Re: [acmold] Sticky for Southern League Physical Non Issuers 2017 - 2018 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


In Reply To
Many people will tell you they have been at a game where there was no programme but one will have been sent to the relevant authorities to avoid a fine. The Gwent County is the prime example where the print run at many clubs is 2 or 3 copies and none are available for spectators.


Interesting conversation today on Ynysddu Welfare's Twitter proves your point

https://mobile.twitter.com/...8673680514912256?p=v


Muff5
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Sep 16, 2017, 11:15 PM

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Post #95 of 102 (2159 views)
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Re: [gcnc] Sticky for Southern League Physical Non Issuers 2017 - 2018 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

The biggest issue for Gwent County Clubs is the costs and not knowing what spectators are coming. I printed 7 for today's game (ynysddu) and still have 3 now because there was nobody watching. We have a game Monday night and god knows how many will be there. I've have had a few messages from some groundhoppers saying they are coming so they will 100% have a programme but other than spending much needed cash on programmes that go to waste it's impossible to get right


gcnc
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Sep 17, 2017, 8:14 AM

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Post #96 of 102 (2108 views)
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Re: [Muff5] Sticky for Southern League Physical Non Issuers 2017 - 2018 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


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The biggest issue for Gwent County Clubs is the costs and not knowing what spectators are coming. I printed 7 for today's game (ynysddu) and still have 3 now because there was nobody watching. We have a game Monday night and god knows how many will be there. I've have had a few messages from some groundhoppers saying they are coming so they will 100% have a programme but other than spending much needed cash on programmes that go to waste it's impossible to get right


... all of which underlines the importance of following the advice often given here about contacting Gwent County clubs in advance if you are attending and will want a programme.

Given that it is the Ynysddu programme compiler that has posted, it needs to be said that last season I didn't see a better programme in the three divisions than the one I picked up when I went there - 40 pages, glossy cover, all the necessary contents including colour photos from recent matches etc. It was a credit to you and the club, sir, and your frustration when they are wasted like yesterday is understandable.

Most posters on here, myself included, would be less sympathetic to Gwent County clubs who only manage to print 3 copies of a folded A4 sheet (cost 10p?) and then complain when a carload of hoppers turn up!


Muff5
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Sep 17, 2017, 10:08 AM

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Post #97 of 102 (2072 views)
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Re: [gcnc] Sticky for Southern League Physical Non Issuers 2017 - 2018 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

Thank you very much for the kind comments, it's a league requirement to have a programme so we try to do it the very best we can.

Yes I totally agree on some of them, we don't get them at the majority of places these days


Tim
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Oct 3, 2017, 1:14 PM

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Post #98 of 102 (1226 views)
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Re: [Muff5] Sticky for Southern League Physical Non Issuers 2017 - 2018 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

Basingstoke Town are issuing in digital form. Not sure if paper is still available.


Workington FC
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Oct 12, 2017, 6:31 PM

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Post #99 of 102 (845 views)
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Re: [Tim] Sticky for Southern League Physical Non Issuers 2017 - 2018 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

Livingston FC- Scotland have now gone digital. No paper programme being produced.


Cowden Andy
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Oct 13, 2017, 11:05 AM

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Post #100 of 102 (713 views)
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Re: [Workington FC] Sticky for Southern League Physical Non Issuers 2017 - 2018 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

Aye they had been doing it both on hard copy and digital but from their last game it was digital only.

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