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Paperless rail tickets

 

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Tykeoldboy
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Oct 2, 2017, 9:00 PM

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Post #1 of 28 (3960 views)
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Paperless rail tickets Can't Post or Reply Privately

"Plans to replace paper tickets on UK trains are to be accelerated, Transport Secretary Chris Grayling has said.

Passengers will be able to use mobile phones and smartcards to travel across most of the network by the end of 2018"

http://www.bbc.com/...uk-politics-41475478

Will this means higher fares to cover the cost of a new IT system and extra guards on trains?


paulh66
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Oct 2, 2017, 9:07 PM

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Post #2 of 28 (3956 views)
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Re: [Tykeoldboy] Paperless rail tickets [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

I've got paperless tickets for a couple of upcoming train journeys. Just requires a simple scan of the barcode....quicker than squinting at a ticket then scribbling biro over it!


kirby knitters
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Oct 2, 2017, 9:08 PM

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Post #3 of 28 (3955 views)
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Re: [Tykeoldboy] Paperless rail tickets [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

The government will surely cover the cost of what is down to them. Guards/train managers/ticket inspectors or what ever name they go under these days will be doing the same job so no problems on that front.

It's a good idea and we have to move with the times but as long as i can travel with a paper ticket then that is what i shall do.


paulh66
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Oct 2, 2017, 9:12 PM

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Post #4 of 28 (3952 views)
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Re: [kirby knitters] Paperless rail tickets [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

Will anyone be boycotting paperless train journeys ....? Angelic


Tykeoldboy
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Oct 2, 2017, 10:46 PM

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Post #5 of 28 (3914 views)
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Re: [paulh66] Paperless rail tickets [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

You show the guard/ticket inspector your e-ticket on your phone and he/she punches a hole in it Laugh


Sale Holmfield
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Oct 3, 2017, 12:20 AM

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Post #6 of 28 (3884 views)
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Re: [Tykeoldboy] Paperless rail tickets [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

Would this be on Northern Rail whose guards are on strike today because of attempts to introduce Driver Only Operated trains? I can think of at least one guard who probably would try to punch the phone, that is if he decided to bother to check tickets at all. Tongue


I actually already use a mobile phone ticket for local bus journeys (and occasionally on Stagecoach outside the area), which is cheaper than a smart card. While that is okay for local journeys, I think we would need a lot more charging points to be made available for long distance travel.


KnowYourMarket
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Oct 3, 2017, 7:47 AM

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Post #7 of 28 (3834 views)
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Re: [Sale Holmfield] Paperless rail tickets [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

The Dutch already have a national smart card system for all public transport journeys. Rail fares on charges on km travelled. Mobile phone system is flawed due to battery issues.

I use mobile tickets in Germany but always print a paper copy as back up!

It would make sense to introduce it here.



Last ground visited(update requested by Spud): Wellington . New grounds 18/19: 38


jrev61
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Oct 3, 2017, 9:45 AM

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Post #8 of 28 (3802 views)
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Re: [KnowYourMarket] Paperless rail tickets [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

Are Smartcards similar to Oyster Cards, that you would use on scanners at the start and end of your journey?
This would prevent the use of split tickets.
I assume that part of the plan is for ticket offices to close and all their staff to be made redundant. This will inevitably lead to strikes.



jrev61


Tykeoldboy
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Oct 3, 2017, 2:43 PM

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Post #9 of 28 (3721 views)
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Re: [jrev61] Paperless rail tickets [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

There are people that don't use a mobile phone and there are people who wouldn't want a smart card because they rarely use the railways. There would still be the need for tickets, machines would cover that, but then there are people who don't have debit/credit cards. Somewhere in that mix there might be people that fall into all three categories.


kirby knitters
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Oct 3, 2017, 2:54 PM

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Post #10 of 28 (3715 views)
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Re: [Tykeoldboy] Paperless rail tickets [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

The idea is to make paperless travel an option so people that fall into all three categories will be fine (in the short term at least)


broodleyhoo
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Oct 3, 2017, 5:17 PM

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Post #11 of 28 (3675 views)
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Re: [kirby knitters] Paperless rail tickets [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

Anything that moves this country towards more modern systems is a good thing - but not at the expense of having to have a smart phone.

Similarly also not at the expense of ticket office staff : here in Selby they're fab, have often saved me money by advising of better routes/cheaper fares etc.

Split ticketing is great - but if we move to a more modern system hopefully that will include software so that the crazy savings you can make by being enough of an anorak to know about split ticketing get wired into the system so that everyone can get the benefit.

Driver only trains....surely not such good news for e.g. disabled passengers on unmanned stations late at night. False economy to get rid of "2nd man" on trains.


bakis
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Oct 3, 2017, 5:52 PM

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Post #12 of 28 (3664 views)
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Re: [broodleyhoo] Paperless rail tickets [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

Amongst the considerable range of stuff and nonsense emanating from the DfT there are plenty of references to customers not wanting the inconvenience of paper tickets. I can't recall ever encountering anyone complaining about this and I'd be confident that this issue is well down the list of customer concerns. Extending the options is fair enough, as long as it's possible to cope with the new range of excuses for not having a ticket (battery, signal, accidental deletion, dropped phone and no doubt many more), but there doesn't appear to be much of a case for threatening the future of the paper ticket.


Bantam Cymraeg
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Oct 3, 2017, 6:53 PM

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Post #13 of 28 (3645 views)
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Re: [jrev61] Paperless rail tickets [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


In Reply To
Are Smartcards similar to Oyster Cards, that you would use on scanners at the start and end of your journey?

Yes, I've got one for NL - it's called an OV Chipkaart. You use it exactly the same as an Oyster Card, but it works across the whole country on trains, buses and trams. Those Dutchies certainly know how to run a public transport system.


Tykeoldboy
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Oct 3, 2017, 6:57 PM

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Post #14 of 28 (3645 views)
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Re: [broodleyhoo] Paperless rail tickets [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


In Reply To
Anything that moves this country towards more modern systems is a good thing - but not at the expense of having to have a smart phone.

Similarly also not at the expense of ticket office staff : here in Selby they're fab, have often saved me money by advising of better routes/cheaper fares etc.

Split ticketing is great - but if we move to a more modern system hopefully that will include software so that the crazy savings you can make by being enough of an anorak to know about split ticketing get wired into the system so that everyone can get the benefit.

Driver only trains....surely not such good news for e.g. disabled passengers on unmanned stations late at night. False economy to get rid of "2nd man" on trains.


Having worked on the BR ticketing system back in the 1990's I know that it is a very complex area. There are way too many variables to be able to produce a simple ticket system and if it could be made simpler than it would be at the expense of the passengers having to pay higher fares.


kirby knitters
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Oct 8, 2017, 9:50 AM

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Post #15 of 28 (3487 views)
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Re: [Tykeoldboy] Paperless rail tickets [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

But were they not supposed to be making things simpler for the punter who purchases tickets from a machine on the station? It hasn't happened and must be a nightmare for some that are not used to it and have lots of different fares to the same destination and heaven help anyone who makes an error and travels with an off peak ticket at the incorrect time. I have seen someone treated like a common criminal by a rail employee for innocently doing such a thing.


Ropemaker
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Oct 8, 2017, 1:38 PM

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Post #16 of 28 (3448 views)
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Re: [kirby knitters] Paperless rail tickets [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

It's not only long journeys with stupid ticketing. I quite often travel to a station three stops down the line from me at weekends, so not peak time.

I've been sold day return tickets at various prices. And the ticket in the opposite direction is another price again!



Just because you're paranoid, it doesn't mean they're not out to get you.


Fanatic
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Oct 8, 2017, 3:23 PM

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Post #17 of 28 (3419 views)
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Re: [Ropemaker] Paperless rail tickets [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


In Reply To
It's not only long journeys with stupid ticketing. I quite often travel to a station three stops down the line from me at weekends, so not peak time.

I've been sold day return tickets at various prices. And the ticket in the opposite direction is another price again!


I used to commute from Elmswell in Suffolk which had an unusually early end to the morning peak time (I think around 8:30), which meant I could get the 8:36 and pay the off peak fare. Unfortunately a lot of the staff weren't aware of this, and most times there was a new conductor, I had to explain this to them. This sometimes resulted in arguments ending only when the conductor phoned head office. After this happening several times I asked the company to write me a letter confirming the peak time end point so I could show it to conductors, but I still had one of them refuse to accept the letter as proof.

Personally I would be very dubious about using a smart card on the national rail network due to the outrageous on-the-day price we have. If we had agreed national fares like the Dutch I can see it working, but not at the moment.


Tykeoldboy
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Oct 8, 2017, 3:35 PM

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Post #18 of 28 (3413 views)
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Re: [Fanatic] Paperless rail tickets [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

Train companies aren't run for the benefit of passengers they are run for the benefit of shareholders.


Leyther_Matt
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Oct 11, 2017, 2:29 PM

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Post #19 of 28 (3193 views)
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Re: [bakis] Paperless rail tickets [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


In Reply To
Amongst the considerable range of stuff and nonsense emanating from the DfT there are plenty of references to customers not wanting the inconvenience of paper tickets. I can't recall ever encountering anyone complaining about this and I'd be confident that this issue is well down the list of customer concerns. Extending the options is fair enough, as long as it's possible to cope with the new range of excuses for not having a ticket (battery, signal, accidental deletion, dropped phone and no doubt many more), but there doesn't appear to be much of a case for threatening the future of the paper ticket.

I haven't got a problem with paper tickets as such, but I do have a problem when having a split journey (due to changing trains as much as trying to get cheap prices) and having a pile of tickets the size of a deck cards when you throw in return tickets, seat reservations and the like. I've noticed that when I've bought through the TPExpress website everything - each journey leg, seat reservation - is printed on a single ticket outbound and single ticket for outbound, even on a non-TPExpress journey. That said, I'd quite happily use mobile-only ticketing (and would like to see the rail companies offering a discount for doing so) as I'd always use the charger points on trains to avoid the battery issue and already just use my phone when boarding flights and even for match tickets at Easter Road, scanning my phone at the turnstiles using my 'Print at Home' ticket attachment.


bakis
Reserve Team Regular

Oct 11, 2017, 6:53 PM

Posts: 600
Location: Worcestershire
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Post #20 of 28 (3150 views)
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Re: [Leyther_Matt] Paperless rail tickets [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

Fair enough, but I don't see why changing trains per se requires more tickets as you can book from any station on the network to any other. A number of tickets, or indeed virtual tickets on the phone, is surely the consequence of making a number of purchases to gain the benefit of split ticketing? Having a number of separately purchased journeys, even if purchased at the same time, on one ticket is probably incompatible with ticket barrier technology. Using charge points is fine on those trains where they exist, best to avoid long trips on the likes of pacers and sprinters! (Mind you there are other reasons for doing that).


harrierjames
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Mar 23, 2018, 12:20 AM

Posts: 51
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Post #21 of 28 (1949 views)
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Re: [bakis] Paperless rail tickets [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

Personally as long as it is possible to get a physical ticket I shall take that option. Much the same with football tickets. I will always choose to get a physical ticket if the match requires one and there is an option to. I like to keep them. As with train and other transport tickets.

Any other anoraks out there like me? Or, as an early 20 something, am I just backwards?


bakis
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Mar 23, 2018, 8:51 AM

Posts: 600
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Post #22 of 28 (1889 views)
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Re: [harrierjames] Paperless rail tickets [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

At one point in the 1980s I sometimes found myself conveying messages and documents between the chair of the Transport Ticket Society, who was a neighbour, and its secretary, who was a work colleague. When I came back from holiday with some obscure tickets it could be a problem to decide to whom to give them.
Programme collectors might recognise the type of enthusiasm, and of course tickets take up far less room in the attic!


richiejenn
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Mar 23, 2018, 9:06 AM

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Post #23 of 28 (1880 views)
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Re: [bakis] Paperless rail tickets [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

There was a fellow commuter who I spoke with some 25 years ago who collected rail tickets and his goal was to collect every destination. As I was "doing the 92" and had a YP railcard I used to save them and give to him.


kirby knitters
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Mar 23, 2018, 9:42 AM

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Post #24 of 28 (1855 views)
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Re: [richiejenn] Paperless rail tickets [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

I know a couple of platform ticket collectors who carried on with it even when stations all over the UK went open.


Love paper tickets myself and will never go down any other route unless the option is taken away.


robert1988
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Mar 27, 2018, 7:38 PM

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Post #25 of 28 (1566 views)
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Re: [kirby knitters] Paperless rail tickets [In reply to] Can't Post or

I use mobile apps now and purchase M-Tickets.

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