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Home: Non League Football Information: History:
Amateur Internationals

 

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bmccoll
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Aug 12, 2017, 9:33 PM

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Post #126 of 154 (2058 views)
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Re: [EFC] Amateur Internationals [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

The spreadsheet currently runs to over 12,000 lines and we are slowly filling in the players' first names through archived press reports and BMDs.

We intend to publish this on 21 August with the work being available in book form one month after, the latter will include more info such as goal times, venues and attendances plus many pictures of players and programme covers courtesy of Graham who has helped no end on this new edition. This will be available via LULU.com for a nominal sum to cover printing and postage.

In the meantime we still require first names for a substantial number of Welsh players, first up is Lovell's Athletic.
Any help whatsoever on this and the preceding post are most welcome!
Cheers,
Brian

Birch LA 1953
Edmunds G 1948
Fisher K 1938
Fitzgerald B 1966
Fitzgerald KE 1960-1964
Grace T 1958-1959
Griffiths JB 1950-1953
Hawthorne R 1956-1957
Hillman WR 1926-1929
Jones S 1934
McDougall J 1926
Miles AE 1928-1929
Paul A 1952-1954
Saltry J 1939
Whitehouse H 1939
Williams FCA 1933
Williams WT 1947



http://www.scottish-football-historical-archive.co.uk/


prorege
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Aug 13, 2017, 7:49 AM

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Post #127 of 154 (2015 views)
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Re: [bmccoll] Amateur Internationals [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

1970 Ashfield player was Gus McMillan, a Glasgow polis, who later joined Stirling Albion.


prorege
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Aug 14, 2017, 9:18 AM

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Post #128 of 154 (1927 views)
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Re: [prorege] Amateur Internationals [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

There was a Billy Paton playing for Glenafton in 1962/3, so I expect he'll be your man.


bluedragon
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Aug 14, 2017, 5:47 PM

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Post #129 of 154 (1897 views)
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Re: [prorege] Amateur Internationals [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

Thanks Prorege. Of the 16 players who were Juniors when capped for Scotland as Amateurs we are now only missing the forename(s) for three and they are:

Finlayson L Tranent (1974) - I have been told he was Lindsay but the person was not 100% sure

McGowan T Duntocher Hibs (1973) – This was when Duntocher Hibs came out of abeyance and used an amateur squad in their first season back in the Junior ranks.

McLean A Dundee Anchorage (1939)


(This post was edited by bluedragon on Aug 14, 2017, 5:51 PM)


Meadowbank74
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Aug 14, 2017, 8:24 PM

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Post #130 of 154 (1880 views)
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Re: [bluedragon] Amateur Internationals [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

McIlroy W ‘Jock’ London Caledonians 11 March 1939 - initial W, known as Jock.
McLean Alex Dundee Anchorage 19 April 1939 – profile in Dundee Courier 11 April 1939.
MacLean Campbell M Glasgow University 16 March 1949
McMillan Angus (Gus) Ashfield 20 March 1970
Paton William (Billy) Glenafton Athletic 10 May 1963
Peattie William St Monance Swifts 15 February 1936 - 22 April 1936
Ross Alexander (Sandy) Cameron Highlanders 12 October 1929 – later with Hibs
Sibbald Thomas Inglis Edinburgh University 12 October 1929 - doctor, went to Doncaster.
Simpson Hector James Kennoway 13 April 1938



http://www.scottishsporthistory.com


bmccoll
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Aug 15, 2017, 6:06 AM

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Post #131 of 154 (1841 views)
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Re: [Meadowbank74] Amateur Internationals [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

Thanks again, everyone.

Just when a light appears in the tunnel something else crops up! I came across references to an FA amateur XI (essentially the England Amateur side) tour in 1950, The Times gives 3 of the 4 results but little other details. I have the touring party from a report in the Sunderland Daily Echo and I've asked our continental friends of Facebook for help with the actual matches, but does anyone here have the info already?

The games were
14 May 1950, Copenhagen
Copenhagen Combination ( ) 4
FA Amateur XI ( ) 1

18 May 1950, Odense
Funen XI (0) 2
FA Amateur XI (0) 2 Noble, Walters

21 May 1950, Aarhus
Jutland XI ( ) 1
FA Amateur XI ( ) 2 Holmes, Walton

23 May 1950
Gothenburg Alliance



http://www.scottish-football-historical-archive.co.uk/


prorege
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Aug 15, 2017, 8:00 AM

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Post #132 of 154 (1832 views)
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Re: [Meadowbank74] Amateur Internationals [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

Worth noting perhaps that Alex McLean played for YMCA Anchorage (an Amateur side) as opposed to Dundee Anchorage (a Junior side).


Meadowbank74
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Aug 15, 2017, 11:54 AM

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Post #133 of 154 (1817 views)
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Re: [prorege] Amateur Internationals [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

Two more Scots - it appears F McIntosh of Coats Amateurs was Fraser Mackintosh, who joined Queen's Park.
Porter John of Edinburgh City Police - see http://www.scottishpolicemedals.co.uk/...on-football-section/

Other clues:

Lance Corporal J Walker was in the Black Watch
A/C (Aircraftsman) C Brown was at RAF Grantham
J Garden of London Caledonians was previously with Buckie Thistle
J Knowles played a trial with Leith Athletic in May 1940, and was still playing for Murrayfield Amateurs up to about 1950.



http://www.scottishsporthistory.com

(This post was edited by Meadowbank74 on Aug 15, 2017, 1:32 PM)


sureitsza
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Aug 15, 2017, 2:26 PM

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Post #134 of 154 (1793 views)
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Re: [bmccoll] Amateur Internationals [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

14 May 1950, Copenhagen
Copenhagen Combination (2) 4
FA Amateur XI (1) 1 (Koeppen og)
Att: 17,000

r/h J.R.E.Hardistry Bishop Auckland
I/r K.Butler Wycombe Wanderers


bmccoll
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Aug 15, 2017, 8:36 PM

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Post #135 of 154 (1771 views)
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Re: [prorege] Amateur Internationals [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


In Reply To
Worth noting perhaps that Alex McLean played for YMCA Anchorage (an Amateur side) as opposed to Dundee Anchorage (a Junior side).


Duly amended!




http://www.scottish-football-historical-archive.co.uk/


bmccoll
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Aug 15, 2017, 8:44 PM

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Post #136 of 154 (1770 views)
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Re: [bmccoll] Amateur Internationals [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

For the record, the following were selected for the 1950 tour, but whether they all took part...

JJ Snowden (Willington);
LJ Wallis (Leytonstone)
LC Rowland (Wrexham)
S Howe (Willington);
L Topp (Hendon)
C Fuller (Bromley)
EG Fright (Bromley)
J Kavanagh (Leytonstone)
JWR Taylor (Bishop Auckland);
HA Pawson (Oxford University)
JA Walton (Bury)
W Holmes (Wolverhampton Wanderers)
E Taylor (Willington)
S Rutherford (Willington)
AW Noble (Leytonstone)
K Butler (Wycombe Wanderers)

AND I got this from the official programme for the 14 May 1950, Copenhagen, game ...

FA Amateur XI:
EE Bennett (Southall)
LJ Wallis (Leytonstone)
S Howe (Willington);
JRE Hardisty (Bishop Auckland)
C Fuller (Bromley)
L Topp (Hendon)
JA Walton (Bury)
E Taylor (Willington)
W Holmes (Wolverhampton Wanderers)
K Butler (Wycombe Wanderers)
S Rutherford (Willington)

Referee: J Nilsson (Helsingborg)

Furthermore, press reports from early May stated theat there were to be three matches in the tour, so it's possible that the one against a Gothenburg Alliance (the only one that would have been outwith Denmark) was pencilled in but not played???



http://www.scottish-football-historical-archive.co.uk/

(This post was edited by bmccoll on Aug 15, 2017, 9:53 PM)


PaulC
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Aug 15, 2017, 9:40 PM

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Post #137 of 154 (1762 views)
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Re: [bmccoll] Amateur Internationals [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

Pre-tour newspaper reports state they were due to play Elfsborg on 26 May.

Snowden withdrew from the team after fracturing his collarbone in a Northern League match against Billingham Synthonia.


bmccoll
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Aug 16, 2017, 8:54 PM

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Post #138 of 154 (1676 views)
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Re: [PaulC] Amateur Internationals [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

Gwidon from the F/B page found this,

23 May 1950 Ullevi Stadium, att 4521
Gothenburg Alliance 0
FA Amateur XI 1 Walton



http://www.scottish-football-historical-archive.co.uk/


bmccoll
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Aug 20, 2017, 8:59 PM

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Post #139 of 154 (1494 views)
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Re: [bmccoll] Amateur Internationals [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

After three months of further review, we are in a position to provide the most complete record available, in two versions.

The first version is an Excel spreadsheet and contains the full name and club of virtually every player who has been picked for international duty, including trial matches. The database also features a summary account of the matches themselves with goalscorers, results and dates.

The book edition, which will be more in depth, will also feature venues, attendances, goal times, referees and nearly all foreign opposition line-ups, will be available for purchase at a nominal price within the next few weeks. It will also include a myriad of illustrations including player pics and programme covers.
I will post further details on this at a later date.

UK AMATEUR INTERNATIONALISTS DATABASE

I'd like to take this chance to thank everyone who has submitted info to this project, with special thanks to John Treleven, Graham Frosten and of course Douglas Gorman, who compiled the spreadsheet from the original material.



http://www.scottish-football-historical-archive.co.uk/


pitch 63
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Aug 21, 2017, 7:40 AM

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Post #140 of 154 (1470 views)
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Re: [bmccoll] Amateur Internationals [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

Brian

Your entry for John Harvey Hughes reads -

Hughes J (1) Cardiff Corinthians WALES England 7 February 1914

His surname is actually Harvey Hughes.

I also question whether he was a Cardiff Corinthians player at the time. I quote the following extract from the Western Daily Press -

However, the League received a new form of recognition when J. Harvey Hughes of Sneyd Park was picked to play for Wales in the Amateur International at Home Park, Plymouth on 7th February 1914. Hughes, who had played for United Banks, Bristol Rovers and Bath City, had started the season with Cardiff Corinthians, but broke his collarbone just four weeks before the match whilst playing for Sneyd Park against W. J. Rogers Ltd. Nevertheless, he was declared fit to play in the international, but Wales lost 9-1.


John Treleven
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Aug 21, 2017, 8:24 AM

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Post #141 of 154 (1463 views)
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Re: [pitch 63] Amateur Internationals [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

John Harvey HUGHES
born 21st July 1889 (Bridgend Reg Dist)
died 4th quarter 1976 (St. Marylebone, London Reg. Dist)


PhilN
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Aug 21, 2017, 8:44 AM

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Post #142 of 154 (1457 views)
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Re: [bmccoll] Amateur Internationals [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

P. Richardson (Boldmere SM) is Philip 'Phil'.


bmccoll
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Aug 21, 2017, 10:05 AM

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Post #143 of 154 (1436 views)
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Re: [PhilN] Amateur Internationals [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

Thanks for these amendments. All corrections etc will be carried through to the forthcoming book edition hence the four week gap. We want the book to be as accurate and complete as possible so all these are most welcome.



http://www.scottish-football-historical-archive.co.uk/


bmccoll
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Aug 23, 2017, 9:42 PM

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Post #144 of 154 (1318 views)
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Re: [bmccoll] Amateur Internationals [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

UPDATED SPREADSHEET NOW AVAILABLE
This includes info for the Scotland XI v QP Strollers on 24 Dec 1955 and England XI v Fulham on 28 Feb 1966.
Spelling errors to some surnames have been rectified and more given names added.

Further details are on the UPDATE tab

UK AMATEUR INTERNATIONAL DATABASE



http://www.scottish-football-historical-archive.co.uk/


PaulC
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Aug 24, 2017, 8:44 AM

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Post #145 of 154 (1297 views)
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Re: [bmccoll] Amateur Internationals [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

"Pennilee United"

The district in Glasgow is Penilee.


bmccoll
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Aug 24, 2017, 6:01 PM

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Post #146 of 154 (1251 views)
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Re: [PaulC] Amateur Internationals [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

One further game has since came to light.
In 1938, there was an FA Amateur XI 'tour' to the Channel Isles with a game fixed for 12 May at Westmount. I have the following info. The team shown was selected in April but Charlie Fuller (Walthamstow Ave) was added later. Can anyone confirm the line-up and result?

12 May 1938, Westmount, Jersey, att
Friendly
Jersey FA XI
( )
FA Amateur XI
( )
FA Amateur XI:

HHC Hill (Dulwich Hamlet)
GS Burchell (Romford)
HS Robbins (Dulwich Hamlet)
JW Lewis (Walthamstow Avenue, capt)
LN Hockaday (Enfield)
TH Leek (Moor Green)
WW Parr (Blackpool)
M Edelston (Brentford & London University)
AH Gibbons (Tottenham Hotspur & Royal Air Force)
LC THornton (Kingstonian)
HJ Ball (Dulwich Hamlet)
Reserves
JC Kilkenny (Yorkshire Amateur)
F Boston (Golders Green)



http://www.scottish-football-historical-archive.co.uk/


bmccoll
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Aug 30, 2017, 6:12 PM

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Post #147 of 154 (1030 views)
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Re: [bmccoll] Amateur Internationals [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

FURTHER UPDATES

Including further Scotland Trials from the late 1950s through to 1973 and more first names.

BRITISH AMATEUR INTERNATIONALS DATABASE



http://www.scottish-football-historical-archive.co.uk/


bmccoll
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Sep 4, 2017, 7:29 PM

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Post #148 of 154 (825 views)
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Re: [bmccoll] Amateur Internationals [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

The THIRD round of updates have been made.

As well as the usual additional club names, I've been able to add two further Scotland trials from 1928-29 and the line-up of the London XI for 1 Jan 1913.

Also, three players' surnames have been corrected.

Full details are on the UPDATES tab.

BRITISH AMATEUR INTERNATIONALS DATABASE




http://www.scottish-football-historical-archive.co.uk/


BertD
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Sep 7, 2017, 11:36 AM

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Post #149 of 154 (723 views)
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Re: [bmccoll] Amateur Internationals [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

Just a tiny one, one of Cliff George's entries shows his club as Golder's Green instead of Golders Green.


bmccoll
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Sep 7, 2017, 5:44 PM

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Post #150 of 154 (690 views)
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Re: [BertD] Amateur Internationals [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

It may be only minor, but we want the spreadsheet to be as accurate as possible as all the info will be included in the book edition, which will include more besides (referees, venues, half-time, goal times etc, etc).

Any other corrections and additions are most welcome and I plan to post the fourth update either tomorrow or Saturday.



http://www.scottish-football-historical-archive.co.uk/

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