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Home: Ground Hopping & Programmes: Programme Editing & Collecting:
Sticky for Southern League Physical Non Issuers 2017 - 2018

 

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Workington FC
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Aug 4, 2017, 4:03 PM

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Sticky for Southern League Physical Non Issuers 2017 - 2018 Can't Post or Reply Privately

Can we have one?
We could start with Uxbridge as already mentioned in another thread.


dottirofhod
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Aug 4, 2017, 7:37 PM

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Re: [Workington FC] Sticky for Southern League Physical Non Issuers 2017 - 2018 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

Why just Southern League ?



I have impeccable credentials , sorry to be so curt but I have had my wrist slapped.
From July 1, 2017. 210/169/41. (You know my rules) @ 23/04/2018.
UEFA. 55 x top tier clubs - need 117 / 711. (16.46 %).
FIFA. Full members - need 97 / 211. (45.97 %).


Workington FC
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Aug 5, 2017, 9:27 PM

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Re: [dottirofhod] Sticky for Southern League Physical Non Issuers 2017 - 2018 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

Agree with that. Would be good to extend it.


Steelback
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Aug 5, 2017, 10:10 PM

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Re: [Workington FC] Sticky for Southern League Physical Non Issuers 2017 - 2018 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

Down to what level though? The Southern League is the only league system at that level to make programmes non compulsory so I'm guessing that's why the thread was started.



'Little' Northamptonshire Steelbacks 2013 & 2016 T20 CHAMPIONS


kirby knitters
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Aug 5, 2017, 10:16 PM

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Re: [Steelback] Sticky for Southern League Physical Non Issuers 2017 - 2018 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

There was talk on here naming a couple of step 5 leagues. Would be nice to make that official if known.



Kirby Muxloe FC.
Former proud members of The Midland Football League. (Premier Division)


Workington FC
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Aug 6, 2017, 3:09 PM

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Re: [kirby knitters] Sticky for Southern League Physical Non Issuers 2017 - 2018 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

I'll start off, with the previously mentioned, Uxbridge.


Chris1963
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Aug 7, 2017, 4:08 PM

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Re: [Workington FC] Sticky for Southern League Physical Non Issuers 2017 - 2018 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

I can't understand the logic behind Uxbridge's decision. What is the reason? Probably sales have been falling, but that problem can be solved simply by printing fewer copies, or on cheaper paper.
Or is it because of the amount of work needed? Doing an on-line programme takes almost as much work.
And what about advertisers? If you were an advertiser who has paid for an advert in the programme, would you be happy that no printed versions of your advert will be seen?
I think most advertisers would be unhappy if they found out that the programme was on-line only, and some might even withdraw their support. There is no way of gauging how many people have been looking through the pages of the on-line version.

I think that Uxbridge, like St Neots, will soon revert to printing a small number of programmes on matchdays because they will get fed up of spectators asking them why there isn't a proper programme on sale.

The Southern League's decision seems to have been poorly thought through. A compulsory paper programme is hardly a burden if clubs do a photocopied black and white four page issue.
They are probably just trying to look 'trendy' in the days of social media, but the bottom line is that consumers should always have a choice between paper and electronic information.


Lionarm
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Aug 7, 2017, 5:11 PM

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Re: [Chris1963] Sticky for Southern League Physical Non Issuers 2017 - 2018 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

Agree with all that.
I consider it a retrograde decision

I think the step 5/6 problem is that rather than totally non-issuing, with few staff there tends to be missing programmes (when the editor is on holiday for example) throughout the season.

Lets start with Uxbridge.Wink


steveking
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Aug 7, 2017, 8:04 PM

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Re: [Chris1963] Sticky for Southern League Physical Non Issuers 2017 - 2018 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


In Reply To
The Southern League's decision seems to have been poorly thought through. A compulsory paper programme is hardly a burden if clubs do a photocopied black and white four page issue.

But a league like the Southern (and certainly the Isthmian) expects its clubs to carry certain compulsory adverts for the league's various sponsors, some of which are in colour. You will need that requirement to change but if so what will happen to the sponsors?


GRIFFON
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Aug 7, 2017, 8:42 PM

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Re: [steveking] Sticky for Southern League Physical Non Issuers 2017 - 2018 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

How many more times are we going to have this thread, it seems to crop up every few months and the same things are said each time. Yes I agree that it is a major league who have given the option this time and as been pointed out they do not appear to have thought it through especially regarding official sponsors. Perhaps the league will print thousands of sponsors leaflets for clubs to hand out at the turnstyles, the which will inevitably finish up being trodden underfoot, but then again the league won't want to go to that expense................Sly


Wheelbarrow
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Aug 7, 2017, 11:54 PM

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Post #11 of 165 (11334 views)
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Re: [Chris1963] Sticky for Southern League Physical Non Issuers 2017 - 2018 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


In Reply To
There is no way of gauging how many people have been looking through the pages of the on-line version.


Of course there is, it's incredibly easy to monitor hits on a webpage, downloads of a PDF. And what reason does anyone have to suppose that if a club sells 100 paper copies of a programme, that all 100 buyers have taken any notice whatsoever of any of the adverts in there?


buncranaboy
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Aug 7, 2017, 11:56 PM

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Re: [Chris1963] Sticky for Southern League Physical Non Issuers 2017 - 2018 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

[re the bottom line is that consumers should always have a choice between paper and electronic information.


And that's exactly the problem - there aren't enough consumers....


Richard Rundle
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Aug 8, 2017, 7:42 AM

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Post #13 of 165 (11268 views)
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Re: [Chris1963] Sticky for Southern League Physical Non Issuers 2017 - 2018 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


In Reply To
They are probably just trying to look 'trendy' in the days of social media, but the bottom line is that consumers should always have a choice between paper and electronic information.


If you're going to sell 100, maybe, what if you're going to sell 25? Or even 10? Sales even at Step 3/4 are getting quite pitiful these days compared to the heyday of the programme.

Just as businesses advertise more online than in print media (magazines, newspapers etc.) these days, I would expect them to be encouraging the online programme over the paper one, not pushing for the old-fashioned method to stick around.


acmold
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Aug 8, 2017, 9:28 AM

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Post #14 of 165 (11242 views)
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Re: [Richard Rundle] Sticky for Southern League Physical Non Issuers 2017 - 2018 [In reply to] Can't Post or

I've noticed that many club Website sites carry numerous local adverts far more than a programme probably would. Clubs who have never issued or have not done so for years have 20, 30 or more adverts on their site. Also with websites you can have multiple sponsors, in fact you can invent something for someone to sponsor and charge them just a nominal amount for it and their advert. If you get 50 adverts for the Website for say 50 each that's 2,500 for just using some space on your site, if they supply a graphic or something to scan one or two evenings work and it's done for the season. No need to go to a printer, pay their bill and then sit at home the night before a match collating the programme. If you were selling adverts at 50 a pop for a printed programme you would not get anywhere near the return you do by doing them electronically.

If paper products were the way forward why are we getting Emails from Banks, Utility Companies, etc to go paperless - I don't think I get any bills or statements through the post now. These days you can get all your paper work (receipts, guarantee) for a purchased product sent to your in box. An example being Halfords they don't issue receipts they take your Email address and send you the receipt and by the time you leave the shop it's on your phone. In fact if you use contactless payment I think it's done automatically for any purchase after the first payment.


GRIFFON
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Aug 8, 2017, 11:27 AM

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Re: [acmold] Sticky for Southern League Physical Non Issuers 2017 - 2018 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

Same arguments, same people..............
We put ads both in the programme and on the website, good selling point and we are never short of them. Job done.
My bills are never on my phone cos I don't have one!Laugh


Lionarm
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Aug 8, 2017, 1:28 PM

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Post #16 of 165 (11144 views)
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Re: [acmold] Sticky for Southern League Physical Non Issuers 2017 - 2018 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

Fallacious comparison. Who wants paper receipts, bills or even out-of-date bank statements?
I would compare a football ground to more like a heritage site. What's the first thing you are prompted to buy?
Answer: A guide book. Not everybody buys one but there is always something in it which you wouldn't otherwise know.

A programme is a souvenir of the match which a percentage of consumers will always purchase for the forseeable future. Our lives are richer with them.


acmold
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Aug 8, 2017, 1:37 PM

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Post #17 of 165 (11132 views)
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Re: [GRIFFON] Sticky for Southern League Physical Non Issuers 2017 - 2018 [In reply to] Can't Post or

So it's not just the programme that sells your advertsSmile.

Bills, receipts are sent to your Email address, which appear on a phone, PC, tablet and even your TV more or less instantly and I'm presuming everyone who contributes to this board must have access to one of them and has an Email address.

If the programme I paid 1.50 for on Saturday is anything to go by they will be dead and gone by Christmas.

Think of the planet and how eco friendly their demise is. Put them all out for recycling and follow the Forest Green diet - that's the way forward.


acmold
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Aug 8, 2017, 1:43 PM

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Re: [Lionarm] Sticky for Southern League Physical Non Issuers 2017 - 2018 [In reply to] Can't Post or


In Reply To
Fallacious comparison. Who wants paper receipts, bills or even out-of-date bank statements?
I would compare a football ground to more like a heritage site. What's the first thing you are prompted to buy?
Answer: A guide book. Not everybody buys one but there is always something in it which you wouldn't otherwise know.

A programme is a souvenir of the match which a percentage of consumers will always purchase for the forseeable future. Our lives are richer with them.



But the percentage is getting smaller year on year and they are now becoming uneconomic for many clubs to produce.


paulh66
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Aug 8, 2017, 2:12 PM

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Re: [acmold] Sticky for Southern League Physical Non Issuers 2017 - 2018 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

I'm one of those who has to have a programme (if one is issued) at each game I visit but even I've started to question that. In recent years I've done around 150 games each season and there are literally only a handful of programmes which I'd describe as very good and which offer interesting, informative, original but relevant reading material. Nuneaton Griff come into that bracket, incidentally, as do Epsom & Ewell who I visited on Sunday - both productions clearly labours of love and well worth buying.

But they're very much a minority. Most programmes I see are reasonable, covering the essentials, but because of the internet, Twitter etc, I find I'm not getting as much out of them as I used to. I'm obviously not alone in that, given dwindling sales. And some are simply poor value for money, often giving the impression they're published only because they have to be.

As for advertisers, I've spoken to a few over the years and they generally just see their 50 a year half page advert or whatever as a donation to help the local club/community rather than anything they expect a payback from.

Giving clubs the option whether to issue is the inevitable way forward, imho.


(This post was edited by paulh66 on Aug 8, 2017, 2:19 PM)


GRIFFON
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Aug 8, 2017, 3:01 PM

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Re: [acmold] Sticky for Southern League Physical Non Issuers 2017 - 2018 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

No you have that wrong palSmile we sell programme space and then put it on the website for free as a gesture of thanks, we don't mention it to them beforehand. If they see it and don't want it we will always remove it.
Anyway i havn't got time to exchange banter as I have three programmes in eight days to write and prepare so will leave you to get on with it................


acmold
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Aug 8, 2017, 3:14 PM

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Post #21 of 165 (11066 views)
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Re: [paulh66] Sticky for Southern League Physical Non Issuers 2017 - 2018 [In reply to] Can't Post or

Of all the games I been to this season there has only been three programmes issued, some of the other clubs who used to issue in pre season (or do a news sheet / team sheet) don't bother as they say no one is really interested. Of the three programmes I have purchased two did not have any real readable content (and certainly nothing that was not online) and neither put in an away line up, one of which was an F.A.Cup tie and cost 1.50.

Last season I had the lowest amount of programmes I have had for a long time and to be honest only one lingers in the memory as being value for money, and then the club apologised that they could no longer include it in admission. A programme I got at a step 3 club for 2 was quite frankly dreadful, poor content, numerous errors basically just done to meet the rules.

The person I take alone to most games likes to get the line ups, he has more or less given up on programmes (in fact he's disposed of his collection) as he says most no longer serve the purpose they are intended for. This season he has found it's even difficult trying to get the teams at some games as clubs don't have the personal to do a (press) team sheet and he now resorts to taking a photo of the hand written team sheets if he gets a view of them.

I've nothing against programmes but we all have to accept that when they start to cost clubs money to produce and become a burden on overworked declining committees they have had there time. And when "sales" decline to single figures at lower levels they are not worth producing.


acmold
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Aug 8, 2017, 3:24 PM

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Re: [GRIFFON] Sticky for Southern League Physical Non Issuers 2017 - 2018 [In reply to] Can't Post or


In Reply To
No you have that wrong palSmile we sell programme space and then put it on the website for free as a gesture of thanks, we don't mention it to them beforehand. If they see it and don't want it we will always remove it.
Anyway i havn't got time to exchange banter as I have three programmes in eight days to write and prepare so will leave you to get on with it................


Sorry I'm not a mind reader, and think of all that spare time you could have. How many copies do you sell a game?.


mick
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Aug 8, 2017, 7:09 PM

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Post #23 of 165 (10991 views)
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Re: [Richard Rundle] Sticky for Southern League Physical Non Issuers 2017 - 2018 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


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Just as businesses advertise more online than in print media (magazines, newspapers etc.) these days, I would expect them to be encouraging the online programme over the paper one, not pushing for the old-fashioned method to stick around.


Exactly. Someone might see an ad in a programme and think "I will look into that when I get home". But by the time they have got home they have forgotten all about it.

If they spot something online which interests them, even vaguely, they can click through straightaway.


buncranaboy
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Aug 8, 2017, 11:31 PM

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Re: [acmold] Sticky for Southern League Physical Non Issuers 2017 - 2018 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

Think of the planet and how eco friendly their demise is. Put them all out for recycling and follow the Forest Green diet - that's the way forward.


You just want people to put them out for recycling so that you can go round their streets garnering programmes for resale at car-boots with your miser's gloves on.
And isn't the Forest Green diet just a queue at the local Greggs ?

And as for your constant banging on about e-banking.....you're completely out of touch as it's well known that all football transfers are sealed by the signing of a cheque. Sky Sports has just informed us that Mourinho already has hos chequebook out ready for more action. None of this electronic payment nonsense for him !


acmold
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Aug 9, 2017, 8:49 AM

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Re: [buncranaboy] Sticky for Southern League Physical Non Issuers 2017 - 2018 [In reply to] Can't Post or

Just finished my online financial checks for the day and had a quick look at my utility accounts. Interesting piece on BBC Breakfast this morning 10 years since the banking crash, interest rate 5.75 percent then now 0.25 percent. Still loads of toxic debt but it's slowed down spending in the grey sector as those who have saved for retirement have much less cash per month for luxuries.

Don't really do car boots anymore and certainly not programmes, no money to be made. More into gardening, D.I.Y and a spot of minor house clearing. Got a nice line in near new and reconditioned gardening equipment at the moment. Looks like I've got one next month where there is an old record collection interesting to see if any have any value, goes back to the 50's by all accounts including some of 78's. Think they may be Jazz, nice.

Every time I see a Oxford Yellow bus I think of you, big logo on them now contactless payment soon to be cashless. And you will love the payment procedure at Coventry United.

Cheque from a Football club, probably not worth the paper they are written on.

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