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Tony Blair

 

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Ronsdog
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Jul 16, 2017, 12:51 AM

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Post #1 of 28 (2309 views)
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Tony Blair Can't Post or Reply Privately

 
Will we ever be rid of this self publicist who continues to carp on from the sidelines?

His latest missive, concerning the EU referendum result, just goes to prove why many view polititians such as him with contempt.

A clear majority voted to leave; unlike any of the administrations that he headed.

Blair = A total irrelevance IMO


paulh66
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Jul 16, 2017, 1:31 AM

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Post #2 of 28 (2305 views)
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Re: [Ronsdog] Tony Blair [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

Looking at it as a neutral, I wouldn't be so quick to write him off just yet. He's tapping into a message that none of the parties are doing and it might yet gain traction if Brexit turns out not to deliver quite what its supporters expected it to. And, let's face it, many are still uneasy about the whole thing, regardless of how they voted.

Although his message might yet gain traction, his political aspirations, if any, probably won't go much further. Although if Corbyn-mania turns out to be a passing fad he'll probably be one of many weighing in if Labour again tries to reinvent itself.


007Dale
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Jul 16, 2017, 6:27 AM

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Post #3 of 28 (2279 views)
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Re: [paulh66] Tony Blair [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

Does anyone really believe Blair's latest ramblings? The EU have been very clear that they won't relax free movement, why does he think France and Germany will agree now?

The time for that was when Dave went (and failed) to negotiate better terms.

Looking at GE17, the vast majority of votes went to parties that support withdrawal from the single market. LD's campaigned to remain and actually lost vote share.

He's out of touch. Time for him to buy a Caribbean Island and stay there.


jon b
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Jul 16, 2017, 7:38 AM

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Post #4 of 28 (2261 views)
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Re: [007Dale] Tony Blair [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

On the other hand I've very little confidence in our negotiating team or Government and Macron, in particular, seems to have taken up the idea that there are great chunks of financial business currently carried on in London that can be re-located to the continent.

The really worrying thing is that whereas Corbyn was very active campaigning in the recent GE, he seemed lukewarm at best when leading the Labour Remain campaign in 2016. I suspect that his real goal has always been to bring about his socialist utopia away from the restraining hand of Brussels.

At least Blair actually is consistent in his beliefs on Europe. The idea that Theresa May has any credibility over her stance on Remaining/Leaving the EU is comical.


garethwrexy
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Jul 16, 2017, 7:39 AM

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Post #5 of 28 (2260 views)
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Re: [Ronsdog] Tony Blair [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

Blair horrible man



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HantsLondoner
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Jul 16, 2017, 9:16 AM

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Post #6 of 28 (2239 views)
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Re: [garethwrexy] Tony Blair [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

There was a vote to leave the EU. Both campaigns were based on lies and misinformation, which is not relevant now, because the result is binding.

The problem is that a 'vote to leave the EU' doesn't specify how we leave. Many questions were not addressed by the vote, e.g. whether we stay in the single market.

May attempted to interpret the vote in her way, without any form of democratic discussion ('trust me').
Any form of check and balance on her attempt to dictate tactics was very late coming (thanks to Labour), but the General Election result seemed to me to indicate that there is a need to work together and come up with a solution that satisfies everybody.

As paulh66 seems to imply, at the moment, there is still vacuum at the moment, in that any potential solution is fraught with problems, and nobody really knows what to do.

May has lost credibility, nobody else is stepping up to the mark, so if a heavyweight politician like Blair makes his opinions known... people will listen.

For me he is still one of the best speakers on the circuit - obviously nobody will trust him after Iraq, but it does show that we have a big problem, and he explains it eloquently and at least comes up with some potential solutions, like them or not. I'm not sure where we go from here, to be honest.

If Blair had been negotiating with the EU instead of Cameron then I'm sure we would have reached a solution. No comparison between the two in that area. So would Thatcher.
The current negotiating team is completely out of its depth.



If you're going to/been to a Hampshire Premier League match, I'd really appreciate you filling in a questionnaire - available in the Groundhopping/General section, or just PM me for a copy. Thanks.

(This post was edited by HantsLondoner on Jul 16, 2017, 9:25 AM)


derekn
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Jul 16, 2017, 9:23 AM

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Post #7 of 28 (2234 views)
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Re: [HantsLondoner] Tony Blair [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

You can't satisfy everyone. Some people who voted to stay in just want to stay in with no changes. The racist element of the Brexiteers want to get rid of Poles, Asians and Chinese.


HantsLondoner
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Jul 16, 2017, 9:29 AM

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Post #8 of 28 (2232 views)
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Re: [derekn] Tony Blair [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

There were many reasons for voting Brexit. No unified or clear vision. How do we proceed based on that? Carefully, I would say.

The fact that only one question was asked, a fairly vague question at that, means that everyone will interpret it in their own way.

May attempted to take advantage of that, tried to exceed her PM power based on it, and eventually was rumbled.

Blair must be very frustrated that he has no credibility any more - I'm sure he'd love to be involved.



If you're going to/been to a Hampshire Premier League match, I'd really appreciate you filling in a questionnaire - available in the Groundhopping/General section, or just PM me for a copy. Thanks.

(This post was edited by HantsLondoner on Jul 16, 2017, 9:37 AM)


Richard Rundle
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Jul 16, 2017, 9:57 AM

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Post #9 of 28 (2221 views)
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Re: [HantsLondoner] Tony Blair [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


In Reply To
There was a vote to leave the EU. Both campaigns were based on lies and misinformation, which is not relevant now, because the result is binding.


The referendum was not binding, our constitution doesn't work that way. Although it would be a very stupid set of politicians that didn't act on it completely.


garethwrexy
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Jul 16, 2017, 10:07 AM

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Post #10 of 28 (2215 views)
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Re: [HantsLondoner] Tony Blair [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

Blair needs to be in a jail



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Climate Change
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Jul 16, 2017, 10:07 AM

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Post #11 of 28 (2215 views)
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Re: [Richard Rundle] Tony Blair [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


In Reply To
Although it would be a very stupid set of politicians that didn't act on it completely.


Think they have already proven they are stupid, so anything could happen.



I don't need Google. I have a Hoddy.


PaulC
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Jul 16, 2017, 4:59 PM

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Post #12 of 28 (2129 views)
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Re: [Richard Rundle] Tony Blair [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


In Reply To

In Reply To
There was a vote to leave the EU. Both campaigns were based on lies and misinformation, which is not relevant now, because the result is binding.


The referendum was not binding, our constitution doesn't work that way. Although it would be a very stupid set of politicians that didn't act on it completely.


There is now a majority in favour of remaining in the EU.


Climate Change
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Jul 16, 2017, 6:06 PM

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Post #13 of 28 (2107 views)
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Re: [PaulC] Tony Blair [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


In Reply To

There is now a majority in favour of remaining in the EU.


Not when it mattered there wasn't.



I don't need Google. I have a Hoddy.


PaulC
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Jul 16, 2017, 6:40 PM

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Post #14 of 28 (2097 views)
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Re: [Climate Change] Tony Blair [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


In Reply To

In Reply To

There is now a majority in favour of remaining in the EU.


Not when it mattered there wasn't.


Why is the present less important than the past? Why should we plunge headlong into a disaster the majority no longer wants?


windydcfc
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Jul 16, 2017, 7:02 PM

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Post #15 of 28 (2086 views)
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Re: [PaulC] Tony Blair [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


In Reply To

In Reply To

In Reply To

There is now a majority in favour of remaining in the EU.


Not when it mattered there wasn't.


Why is the present less important than the past? Why should we plunge headlong into a disaster the majority no longer wants?



The Tory party is splitting down the middle over Brexit & destroying itself in the process. IDS was quite open about it on the Andrew Marr show. So what will happen to Brexit is anyone's guess. Personally I think it's still going to happen. But I'm sure no one knows what it'll look like at the end.Crazy



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007Dale
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Jul 16, 2017, 7:40 PM

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Post #16 of 28 (2062 views)
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Re: [PaulC] Tony Blair [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


In Reply To

In Reply To

In Reply To
There was a vote to leave the EU. Both campaigns were based on lies and misinformation, which is not relevant now, because the result is binding.


The referendum was not binding, our constitution doesn't work that way. Although it would be a very stupid set of politicians that didn't act on it completely.


There is now a majority in favour of remaining in the EU.


How do you know that? Surely you're not relying on opinion polls for this? The same polls that predicted a win for Remain and a large Tory majority?

I take the GE17 Election as most recent actual results and I believe c80% of people voted for parties that support Brexit.

Wishing it was otherwise won't make it so.


(This post was edited by 007Dale on Jul 16, 2017, 7:41 PM)


paulh66
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Jul 16, 2017, 8:04 PM

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Post #17 of 28 (2048 views)
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Re: [007Dale] Tony Blair [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

You're missing the point (though I'm not disputing your comment about the polls!)

The parties in the last election had to support Brexit as it would have been political suicide not to. But the population is generally very uneasy about Brexit, and there's every chance that that unease will continue to grow. That opens up an opportunity for outsiders like Blair to begin making sound bites about an alternative to Brexit.

Bottom line is, when the mood of the population shifts, there'll always be a vested interest keen to exploit it and then a politician willing to capitalise on it. Blair is the first to dip his toe into that particular pool, and it's too soon to dismiss him entirely. After all, Farage began doing exactly the same thing from the opposite standpoint years ago and was ridiculed but eventually got his way. For now..


justAndy
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Jul 16, 2017, 10:20 PM

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Post #18 of 28 (1993 views)
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Re: [paulh66] Tony Blair [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

Brexit negotiations suffer a lingering death over the next two yeears, with no agreement being reached, Whoever is Tory leader (May long gone) calls election. One of big two decides to run on staying in and wins with a landslide.?!

Just a thought


mick
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Jul 16, 2017, 10:24 PM

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Post #19 of 28 (1986 views)
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Re: [Ronsdog] Tony Blair [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


In Reply To
Will we ever be rid of this self publicist who continues to carp on from the sidelines?


Not until people stop commenting on him and his self-serving pronouncements


In Reply To
Blair = A total irrelevance IMO


So why start a thread about him ??


Ronsdog
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Jul 16, 2017, 11:14 PM

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Post #20 of 28 (1962 views)
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Re: [mick] Tony Blair [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

I didn't expect such a wide and varied range of opinions to emerge when I kicked this one off and I will pick up on a few that really caught my eye.

Hants Londoner wrote.....
"If Blair had been negotiating with the EU instead of Cameron then I'm sure we would have reached a solution. No comparison between the two in that area."

You mean as Blair did when he gave away a large chunk of our rebate in exchange for fundamental reform of the Common Agricultural Policy which didn't happen. The CAP still continues to swallow some 40% of the EUs budget.
Or his and Mandlesons view, that opening the UK borders to an influx of economic migrants would ensure that the British boom would continue unabated and wouldn't present long term problems for the economy. The stagnation of wage levels in the UK can be directly traced back to that particular folly; not to mention the social problems relating to health and education provision that it caused.

PaulC.....There is now a majority in favour of remaining in the EU.
There is no definitive evidence to suggest that this is the case as the recent election proved.

Jon b....At least Blair actually is consistent in his beliefs on Europe.
Quite. The damage he inflicted on Britain as a result of his misguided belief in the EUs
policies on external trading relationships has led us to where we are today. Until we leave we cannot foster trade relationships with the rest of the world.

mick.....So why start a thread about him ??
To offer others an opportunity to give their views.

windydcfc....The Tory party is splitting down the middle over Brexit
As is Labour, although they are keeping the lid on it.

I remain firm in my belief that the EU does not wish to negotiate an outcome that is desirable to both parties....their insistence on the divorce settlement being established before any meaningful talks on trade can proceed simply reinforces this.
When we leave, as we surely will, the black hole in the EUs finances will increase by some 20%. This alone may set off forces that can only be controlled by a reversion to the supremacy of national states and the abondonement of the delusional view that ever closer union benefits the peoples of Europe.

Where Blair is correct is that the centre ground of British politics has been abandoned by both major parties. My belief is that his policies lit the touch paper for this state of affairs and as a result he is an irrelevant player on the political scene.


(This post was edited by Ronsdog on Jul 17, 2017, 12:17 AM)


broodleyhoo
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Jul 17, 2017, 6:46 AM

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Post #21 of 28 (1910 views)
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Re: [Ronsdog] Tony Blair [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

FWIW I think Hants initial post has it about spot on.

No one can deny the June 2016 result, but equally no one could surely deny there is uncertainty about the way forward, but equally again no one should take opinion polls and use them to assert "this is what the country now feels". But am aware that such matters continue to be done to death elsewhere.

But to return to the point of TB, as with all politicians he did some good things (SureStart centres, national minimum wage are two I can think of to start with) some things that were good in concept but will end up being bad (PFI financing for schools and hospitals) but of course everything will be overshadowed by the huge mistake that was Iraq.

I'm no fan - not really due to Iraq, but more to his sanctimonious style and his ridiculous money-making.

Ultimately he fell foul to the cult of youth - what was he - about 40 when he became PM. No experience of ministries, no experience of life generally. If he'd had had say a few years at a couple of ministries and generally seen more of life, he could have used life skills and his undoubted oratorical talents t have become a better PM.

After all, most good footy managers hone their skills at the lowest levels first before hitting success around 50. Why should running the country be different to running a football team?


Fanatic
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Jul 17, 2017, 8:45 AM

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Post #22 of 28 (1886 views)
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Re: [Ronsdog] Tony Blair [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


In Reply To
The stagnation of wage levels in the UK can be directly traced back to that particular folly;


This is an opinion which is backed by some pieces of research but not others. There are many potential reasons for the stagnation, of which EU immigration is only one.


In Reply To
not to mention the social problems relating to health and education provision that it caused.


Most EU nationals in the UK are of working age and put less strain on public services than the average Brit (between 1995 and 2011 the average EEA immigrant contributed a net £6,000 to the exchequer whilst the average Brit took an average £11,000). The failure has been the government not spending enough of EU workers' tax revenue on these services, particularly in the last seven years.


Richard Rundle
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Jul 17, 2017, 9:42 AM

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Post #23 of 28 (1866 views)
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Re: [Ronsdog] Tony Blair [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


In Reply To
I remain firm in my belief that the EU does not wish to negotiate an outcome that is desirable to both parties....their insistence on the divorce settlement being established before any meaningful talks on trade can proceed simply reinforces this.



And I am firm in my belief that the Conservative leadership (and their mouthpieces in the media) don't wish an outcome that is desirable for both parties either. Any "concessions", which will be perfectly normal in a huge process like this will seen as surrender.


R.S.Cavendish
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Jul 17, 2017, 2:17 PM

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Post #24 of 28 (1820 views)
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Re: [Richard Rundle] Tony Blair [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

As far as I'm concerned, Blair is a war criminal who should be tried at The Hague.


007Dale
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Jul 17, 2017, 2:26 PM

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Post #25 of 28 (1812 views)
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Re: [R.S.Cavendish] Tony Blair [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


In Reply To
As far as I'm concerned, Blair is a war criminal who should be tried at The Hague.


TBH, it's hard to find someone better than Blair to help swing the tide back to Brexit. All he has to say is 'remain' and the country will withdraw with haste.

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