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Hillsborough disaster

 



Towlawtom
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Jun 28, 2017, 11:42 AM

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Post #1 of 24 (3088 views)
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Hillsborough disaster Can't Post or Reply Privately

Breaking news 6 people charged

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2017/jun/28/hillsborough-six-people-including-two-senior-police-officers-charged



I need to have the last word, as it always looks as if I am right !

(This post was edited by Towlawtom on Jun 28, 2017, 11:46 AM)


dottirofhod
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Jun 28, 2017, 11:59 AM

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Post #2 of 24 (3072 views)
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Re: [Towlawtom] Hillsborough disaster [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

https://www.theguardian.com/...ice-officers-charged



July 1, 2019 to June 30,2020 = 87 / 75 / 12 / inc 3 x 0-0's. (You know my rules) @ 14 / 10 / 2019.
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justAndy
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Jun 28, 2017, 12:47 PM

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Post #3 of 24 (3032 views)
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Re: [dottirofhod] Hillsborough disaster [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

Slightly surprised at only 6, but i suppose they are the people where the buck stops


Isaac
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Jun 28, 2017, 1:28 PM

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Post #4 of 24 (3019 views)
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Re: [justAndy] Hillsborough disaster [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

Excellent news, hopefully justice at last


justAndy
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Jun 28, 2017, 1:47 PM

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Re: [Isaac] Hillsborough disaster [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


In Reply To
Excellent news, hopefully justice at last


Just been reading the Liverpool Echo site, Getting a fair trial is obviously now an issue. I am also not sure what 'justice' would be acceptable to the families, assuming some sort of custodial sentence is passed.


Towlawtom
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Jun 28, 2017, 3:01 PM

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Re: [justAndy] Hillsborough disaster [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

Its a pity they couldnt charge that lying scumbag Paul Middup of anything.
Surely they could have found something to put on him.



I need to have the last word, as it always looks as if I am right !


PaulC
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Jun 28, 2017, 5:17 PM

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Post #7 of 24 (2920 views)
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Re: [Towlawtom] Hillsborough disaster [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


In Reply To
Its a pity they couldnt charge that lying scumbag Paul Middup of anything.
Surely they could have found something to put on him.


...and lying scumbag Kelvin Mackenzie..


garethwrexy
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Jun 28, 2017, 7:14 PM

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Post #8 of 24 (2876 views)
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Re: [Towlawtom] Hillsborough disaster [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

Be merry hell on Merseyside if duckenfield and Bettison found not guilty



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Richard Rundle
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Jun 28, 2017, 8:58 PM

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Post #9 of 24 (2847 views)
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Re: [garethwrexy] Hillsborough disaster [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

This case is of course now "sub judice" so people have to be very careful what they say in public media.


garethwrexy
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Jun 28, 2017, 9:07 PM

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Post #10 of 24 (2843 views)
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Re: [Richard Rundle] Hillsborough disaster [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

Even police deserve a fair trail



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steve walker
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Jun 28, 2017, 9:52 PM

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Post #11 of 24 (2819 views)
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Re: [garethwrexy] Hillsborough disaster [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

Can you imagine the uproar if they HADN'T charged anyone.
It's almost a lynch mob mentality to charge them with manslaughter. They were incompetent sure and didn't do their jobs as they were supposed to and they covered it up afterwards but.... I'm not sure a manslaughter charge is going to stick for these individuals.
Could be wrong... I usually am... you can resurrect this post later and tell me so.


paulh66
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Jun 28, 2017, 10:09 PM

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Post #12 of 24 (2808 views)
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Re: [steve walker] Hillsborough disaster [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

The CPS almost has a lynch mob mentality? Rubbish. They've done their job, now the courts can do theirs.

Duckenfield is actually the only one charged with manslaughter. If he's cleared in a fair trial, so be it. Most important legacy is that the truth comes out, lessons are learned and justice is done.


Chris1963
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Jun 28, 2017, 11:07 PM

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Post #13 of 24 (2782 views)
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Re: [paulh66] Hillsborough disaster [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

It beggars belief that (according to the Guardian story) the CPS considered bringing charges against members of the ambulance service - surely these people were trying to save lives that day?


coops
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Jun 29, 2017, 3:48 AM

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Post #14 of 24 (2735 views)
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Re: [steve walker] Hillsborough disaster [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


In Reply To
Can you imagine the uproar if they HADN'T charged anyone.
It's almost a lynch mob mentality to charge them with manslaughter. They were incompetent sure and didn't do their jobs as they were supposed to and they covered it up afterwards but.... I'm not sure a manslaughter charge is going to stick for these individuals.
Could be wrong... I usually am... you can resurrect this post later and tell me so.


It could easily stick as it is a charge of manslaughter by gross negligence. I suppose it is similar to corporate manslaughter where people die because of decisions made at the top of the management chain.

Now it could be said (and I'm sure Duckenfield will use this in his defence) that he was thrown into the job of policing Hillsborough without having the experience to do it. But this is negated by the fact tht he didn't do a proper walk around the ground to see potential danger spots for himself, didn't take on board previous recommendations such as having a filtering system outside the Leppings Lane turnstiles and blocking off the tunnel to the central pens when they became full, not knowing who was responsible for such actions and not knowing the consequences of letting 2000+ fans pour through an open gate straight towards said tunnel.

His lies and deception afterwards only makes me hope he is found guilty even more.


Isaac
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Jun 29, 2017, 7:55 AM

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Post #15 of 24 (2708 views)
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Re: [Chris1963] Hillsborough disaster [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


In Reply To
It beggars belief that (according to the Guardian story) the CPS considered bringing charges against members of the ambulance service - surely these people were trying to save lives that day?


Why does that beggar belief? The ambulance service, who have been criticised, are subject to the same laws as everybody else.


Isaac
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Jun 29, 2017, 8:26 AM

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Post #16 of 24 (2701 views)
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Re: [garethwrexy] Hillsborough disaster [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


In Reply To
Even police deserve a fair trail


But you said in a previous post that there would be merry hell on Merseyside if certain people were found not guiltyShocked!


leohoenig
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Jun 29, 2017, 9:07 AM

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Post #17 of 24 (2683 views)
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Re: [Isaac] Hillsborough disaster [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

Yes, but the two statements from Gareth are not contradictary
Everyone does deserve a fair trail, but there are people who have already made up their minds, and there will be protests if a fair trial does not end in convictions



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kirby knitters
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Jun 29, 2017, 10:43 AM

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Post #18 of 24 (2661 views)
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Re: [leohoenig] Hillsborough disaster [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

Will they take the CC hearing to London as there is no way it could be heard in Liverpool or anywhere near the place.


Ronsdog
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Jun 29, 2017, 1:32 PM

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Post #19 of 24 (2623 views)
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Re: [PaulC] Hillsborough disaster [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


In Reply To

In Reply To
Its a pity they couldnt charge that lying scumbag Paul Middup of anything.
Surely they could have found something to put on him.


...and lying scumbag Kelvin Mackenzie..


He simply reported what he was told by the South Yorkshire police spokesman.....all roads lead back to the Old Bill.

What a surprise, not !!!


(This post was edited by Ronsdog on Jun 29, 2017, 1:34 PM)


garethwrexy
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Jun 29, 2017, 6:08 PM

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Post #20 of 24 (2553 views)
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Re: [paulh66] Hillsborough disaster [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

I assume court cases be held in London and not Liverpool



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bakis
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Jun 29, 2017, 7:23 PM

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Post #21 of 24 (2535 views)
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Re: [garethwrexy] Hillsborough disaster [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

We seem to be forgetting that the alleged offences relate to an event in Sheffield, not Liverpool or anywhere else. Somewhere in the north but away from South Yorkshire or Merseyside might be possible, perhaps Leeds or Preston?


Chris1963
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Jun 29, 2017, 11:36 PM

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Post #22 of 24 (2488 views)
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Re: [bakis] Hillsborough disaster [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


In Reply To
We seem to be forgetting that the alleged offences relate to an event in Sheffield, not Liverpool or anywhere else. Somewhere in the north but away from South Yorkshire or Merseyside might be possible, perhaps Leeds or Preston?


The private prosecution of Dave Duckenfield took place at Leeds so your guess could be right. A geographically neutral venue didn't help the Birmingham Six much though - they were tried at Lancaster but still got wrongly convicted.

The bar to further prosecutions against Duckenfield still has to be lifted, which in itself should be interesting. Another problem is getting a fair trial, given that there has been so much written and said about Hillsborough, as well as a TV drama. Again an interesting comparison would be the most recent trial of Gary Glitter. This occurred only a few years after a TV drama had shown his 'execution' but surprisingly his defence did not bring this up.


garethwrexy
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Jun 30, 2017, 7:31 PM

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Post #23 of 24 (2356 views)
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Re: [Chris1963] Hillsborough disaster [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

Really duckenfield ordering that gate open caused the whole thing



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jon b
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Jul 2, 2017, 10:19 PM

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Post #24 of 24 (2236 views)
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Re: [Chris1963] Hillsborough disaster [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


In Reply To

In Reply To
We seem to be forgetting that the alleged offences relate to an event in Sheffield, not Liverpool or anywhere else. Somewhere in the north but away from South Yorkshire or Merseyside might be possible, perhaps Leeds or Preston?


The private prosecution of Dave Duckenfield took place at Leeds so your guess could be right. A geographically neutral venue didn't help the Birmingham Six much though - they were tried at Lancaster but still got wrongly convicted.

The bar to further prosecutions against Duckenfield still has to be lifted, which in itself should be interesting. Another problem is getting a fair trial, given that there has been so much written and said about Hillsborough, as well as a TV drama. Again an interesting comparison would be the most recent trial of Gary Glitter. This occurred only a few years after a TV drama had shown his 'execution' but surprisingly his defence did not bring this up.


Although most people on this Forum will be relatively clued up on the Hillsborough disaster, that's not necessarily the case generally. I suspect it won't be too difficult to find a jury with only cursory knowledge of events there and to many people the name Duckenfield will mean nothing.

What may be tough for the campaigners and the relatives of the 96 (although weirdly manslaughter charges have only been brought re 95) is that in a criminal case the defence may well decide they have to re-visit areas such as the levels of violence and disturbance involving football "supporters" at the time to explain the police/football authorities/media mindset in 1989. The word Heysel comes to mind.

 
 


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