Non League Matters - The Continuation of Tonys english Football Site 



  Main Index MAIN
INDEX
Search Posts SEARCH
POSTS
Who's Online WHO'S
ONLINE
Log in LOG
IN

Home: Non-League Football Discussion: Restructuring Discussion:
Step 3 and 4 Midland/Central League

 

First page Previous page 1 2 3 4 5 6 Next page Last page  View All


acmold
Man City Transfer Target!

Nov 25, 2016, 9:50 PM

Posts: 14497
Location:
Team(s):

Post #126 of 149 (6184 views)
Shortcut
Re: [borninchesham] Step 3 and 4 Midland/Central League [In reply to] Can't Post or

A a couple have been higher before and there are a few new "clone" grounds in there as well. But also in past the league were at loggerheads with the F.A over hard standing and bonded surfaces. Like all leagues certain things seem to differ from others, last time I was at some of their grounds the Hellenic induced Jewson's / Buildbase bland wooden fences were not then the norm.


kivo
First Team Regular


Nov 25, 2016, 9:51 PM

Posts: 1205
Location: Kiveton Park, Sheffield
Team(s): Kiveton Park, Sheffield Wednesday

Post #127 of 149 (6183 views)
Shortcut
Re: [borninchesham] Step 3 and 4 Midland/Central League [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

With ground grading rules relaxed, I'd imagine all of them.


borninchesham
Youth Team Star

Nov 25, 2016, 10:11 PM

Posts: 273
Location: Ipswich
Team(s): Queens Park Rangers & Chesham United

Post #128 of 149 (6171 views)
Shortcut
Re: [kivo] Step 3 and 4 Midland/Central League [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


In Reply To
With ground grading rules relaxed, I'd imagine all of them.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

But why should ground grading rules be relaxed? Unless I've missed something & this applied throughout the country. I include in this that a Central League at step 3 should not allow any clubs that don't meet the current requirements for that level.

I could easily be wrong, but if the clubs didn't have to achieve the grading for current steps 3 & 4, why would they have spent money on the facilities when they were happy to spend it on players?

If they qualify with the current criteria fine. If they don't, they should reach the standard required in the rest of the country before progressing.

An alternative is, Of course, make the facility criteria more realistic for all clubs!

*I have just reread your original post where you stated that you would relax the ground grading & that answers that part of my question!

However, your proposal would be a real kick in the teeth to any North East side that would be in the NPL divison One nest season. Not to mention clubs like Lancaster City, Scarborough etc.

Why should the Northern league & their clubs bypass the next level? Why should a league & it's member clubs, that have consistently ignored the pyramid, be given special consideration?

Why not upgrade the Western league as well/ or instead?

I'm sorry, but I fail to understand or accept that The Northern League is more important or worthy than the other leagues.



(This post was edited by borninchesham on Nov 25, 2016, 10:24 PM)


paulh66
Qatar World Cup bid member!


Nov 25, 2016, 10:20 PM

Posts: 19249
Location: Surrey
Team(s): Tranmere Rovers, South Liverpool (the South will rise again), Cammell Laird

Post #129 of 149 (6166 views)
Shortcut
Re: [borninchesham] Step 3 and 4 Midland/Central League [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

Because the whole 1-2-4-8-16-32 won't work with the existing gradings. By squashing the pyramid in this way the grading requirements at step 3 downwards will inevitably need to be reduced. To illustrate in a different way, we currently have 17 step 6 leagues and can't fill them up under existing grading requirements - there'll be no hope of doing so with 32 leagues.


Richard Rundle
Man City Transfer Target!

Nov 25, 2016, 10:26 PM

Posts: 8469
Location:
Team(s):

Post #130 of 149 (6155 views)
Shortcut
Re: [borninchesham] Step 3 and 4 Midland/Central League [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


In Reply To
I'm sorry, but I fail to understand or accept that The Northern League is more important or worthy than the other leagues.


Go and see some Northern League games. Then see some Western League games. You will notice the gulf.


borninchesham
Youth Team Star

Nov 25, 2016, 10:31 PM

Posts: 273
Location: Ipswich
Team(s): Queens Park Rangers & Chesham United

Post #131 of 149 (6149 views)
Shortcut
Re: [paulh66] Step 3 and 4 Midland/Central League [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


In Reply To
Because the whole 1-2-4-8-16-32 won't work with the existing gradings. By squashing the pyramid in this way the grading requirements at step 3 downwards will inevitably need to be reduced. To illustrate in a different way, we currently have 17 step 6 leagues and can't fill them up under existing grading requirements - there'll be no hope of doing so with 32 leagues.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Perhaps I'm not reading this right, but is it seriously being sugested that, for example, a side that finishes 15th in the Northerm League without the facilities for current step 4, would be promoted to the current step 3, whilst clubs at present step 4 with the facilities for step 3 have to stay where they are? Even if they achieved 90 plus points this season?

If so, God help non league football!



borninchesham
Youth Team Star

Nov 25, 2016, 10:41 PM

Posts: 273
Location: Ipswich
Team(s): Queens Park Rangers & Chesham United

Post #132 of 149 (6141 views)
Shortcut
Re: [Richard Rundle] Step 3 and 4 Midland/Central League [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


In Reply To

In Reply To
I'm sorry, but I fail to understand or accept that The Northern League is more important or worthy than the other leagues.


Go and see some Northern League games. Then see some Western League games. You will notice the gulf.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I'm not doubting that & I only used that league as an example of a league not geographically helped. Although it seems to me to have moved a lot further east in recent seasons! Woulld you say that Crook Town should currently be at the same level as Lancaster City, Bury Town etc?

However, would the Northern League be that much better if the Western League didn't lose their best team on a regular basis?

Perhaps I should have sugested that The South Western League had a two step promotion!



paulh66
Qatar World Cup bid member!


Nov 25, 2016, 10:43 PM

Posts: 19249
Location: Surrey
Team(s): Tranmere Rovers, South Liverpool (the South will rise again), Cammell Laird

Post #133 of 149 (6140 views)
Shortcut
Re: [borninchesham] Step 3 and 4 Midland/Central League [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

I'm not suggesting anything like that. Simply stating that adding 20 or so clubs to step 3, 40 odd to step 4 etc etc all the way down cannot work within existing grading requirements for those steps.

In effect, if the endgame is a 1-2-4-8-16-32 pyramid, one step is being taken out of the current pyramid; the 32 league step 6 would be much of today's step 7. This new structure will require a reduction in existing grading requirements for step 3 downwards. Otherwise it will be unachievable.


borninchesham
Youth Team Star

Nov 25, 2016, 11:03 PM

Posts: 273
Location: Ipswich
Team(s): Queens Park Rangers & Chesham United

Post #134 of 149 (6127 views)
Shortcut
Re: [paulh66] Step 3 and 4 Midland/Central League [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


In Reply To
I'm not suggesting anything like that. Simply stating that adding 20 or so clubs to step 3, 40 odd to step 4 etc etc all the way down cannot work within existing grading requirements for those steps.

In effect, if the endgame is a 1-2-4-8-16-32 pyramid, one step is being taken out of the current pyramid; the 32 league step 6 would be much of today's step 7. This new structure will require a reduction in existing grading requirements for step 3 downwards. Otherwise it will be unachievable.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

No, sorry,

It is kivo that appeared to be making that sugestion.

Unless, of course, I am misunderstanding his posts.



dcuk
Junior Team Star

Nov 28, 2016, 10:13 AM

Posts: 66
Location: Tonbridge
Team(s): Tonbridge Angels, Norwich City

Post #135 of 149 (5741 views)
Shortcut
Re: [borninchesham] Step 3 and 4 Midland/Central League [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


In Reply To
A serious question to you or any other of the pro promoting Northern League brigade.

How many of the Northern league clubs have the facilities for those levels?

And no, I don't believe they should be given an extended time to bring their grounds to the required level.

Other clubs have been denied promotion for not reaching the required status & so should Northern league clubs. You can't have facilities approved in the North east that are not acceptable in the rest of the country.



To add a question to this - Northern League clubs are not accepting promotion from Step 5 to Step 4 - presumably due to travel.

If we promote them en masse to Step 4 - surely none of them will then take promotion to Step 3?


Unicorn
Chelsea Transfer Target

Nov 28, 2016, 11:15 AM

Posts: 3886
Location: Canterbury
Team(s): Arsenal and South Eastern Football

Post #136 of 149 (5714 views)
Shortcut
Re: [dcuk] Step 3 and 4 Midland/Central League [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


In Reply To

In Reply To
A serious question to you or any other of the pro promoting Northern League brigade.

How many of the Northern league clubs have the facilities for those levels?

And no, I don't believe they should be given an extended time to bring their grounds to the required level.

Other clubs have been denied promotion for not reaching the required status & so should Northern league clubs. You can't have facilities approved in the North east that are not acceptable in the rest of the country.



To add a question to this - Northern League clubs are not accepting promotion from Step 5 to Step 4 - presumably due to travel.

If we promote them en masse to Step 4 - surely none of them will then take promotion to Step 3?


Then promote them en masse to step 3.
They could have been there many years ago.


007Dale
First Team Star

Nov 28, 2016, 11:35 AM

Posts: 1718
Location:
Team(s): St Albans City, Leicester City

Post #137 of 149 (5705 views)
Shortcut
Re: [dcuk] Step 3 and 4 Midland/Central League [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

If they don't take promotion it doesn't matter, so long as reprieves are kept to the NPL. The move of the NL to step 4 helps facilitate the creation of a fourth step 3 league, without the need to promote a whole new load of clubs to step 4. This should result in a more balanced step 2, with less of a shift to the south.

This obviously doesn't work if reprieves are handed out to Isthmian clubs, eventually the shift will happen again. The new central league will become more southerly and the northern league encroaching on the midlands.


windydcfc
Man City Transfer Target!


Nov 28, 2016, 12:26 PM

Posts: 10472
Location: Barnetby
Team(s): Derby County FC England Borussia Mönchengladbach

Post #138 of 149 (5681 views)
Shortcut
Re: [007Dale] Step 3 and 4 Midland/Central League [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


In Reply To
If they don't take promotion it doesn't matter, so long as reprieves are kept to the NPL. The move of the NL to step 4 helps facilitate the creation of a fourth step 3 league, without the need to promote a whole new load of clubs to step 4. This should result in a more balanced step 2, with less of a shift to the south.

This obviously doesn't work if reprieves are handed out to Isthmian clubs, eventually the shift will happen again. The new central league will become more southerly and the northern league encroaching on the midlands.

If the southern boundary of the NPL is a line from Grimsby-Sheffield-Chester. Then the NPL step 3 division will become more attractive for the NL teams. After a period of time the former NL teams will balance out the demographics of the NPL Prem. As for promoting the NL1 on mass. It's not going to happen!



Non League Projection - 2020/21: https://docs.google.com/...UTgVhKYTo/edit#gid=0
Step 1: https://www.google.com/....119447550000018&z=7
Step 2: https://www.google.com/...677250654298405&z=15
Step 3: https://www.google.com/...358611350589399&z=16
Step 4: https://www.google.com/...536616305542566&z=16
Step 5: https://www.google.com/...399355140531952&z=16
Step 6: https://www.google.com/...1556307438963813&z=9


(This post was edited by windydcfc on Nov 28, 2016, 12:33 PM)


Richard Rundle
Man City Transfer Target!

Nov 28, 2016, 12:32 PM

Posts: 8469
Location:
Team(s):

Post #139 of 149 (5666 views)
Shortcut
Re: [windydcfc] Step 3 and 4 Midland/Central League [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


In Reply To
If the southern boundary of the NPL is a line from Grimsby-Sheffield-Chester. Then the its step 3 division will become more attractive for the NL teams. After a period of time the former NL teams will balance out the demographics of the NPL Prem. As for promoting the NL1 on mass. It's not going to happen!


We'll believe it when we see it. If the FA want Northern League teams to move up, they'll have to make sure what is on offer at Step 4 is better than what they have at the moment at Step 5.


windydcfc
Man City Transfer Target!


Nov 28, 2016, 12:47 PM

Posts: 10472
Location: Barnetby
Team(s): Derby County FC England Borussia Mönchengladbach

Post #140 of 149 (5650 views)
Shortcut
Re: [Richard Rundle] Step 3 and 4 Midland/Central League [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


In Reply To

In Reply To
If the southern boundary of the NPL is a line from Grimsby-Sheffield-Chester. Then the its step 3 division will become more attractive for the NL teams. After a period of time the former NL teams will balance out the demographics of the NPL Prem. As for promoting the NL1 on mass. It's not going to happen!


We'll believe it when we see it. If the FA want Northern League teams to move up, they'll have to make sure what is on offer at Step 4 is better than what they have at the moment at Step 5.

As has been mentioned the FA want to create 16 step 5! It wouldn't take much for the FA to shunt the NWCL & NCEL slightly northward. Probably by reducing each division to 20 teams only. So those leagues would only promote into the NPL. If there's an East/West split in the NPL1 divisions. Then I'm sure the furthest away games for Northeastern clubs in Sheffield/North Lincolnshire wouldn't be too daunting.



Non League Projection - 2020/21: https://docs.google.com/...UTgVhKYTo/edit#gid=0
Step 1: https://www.google.com/....119447550000018&z=7
Step 2: https://www.google.com/...677250654298405&z=15
Step 3: https://www.google.com/...358611350589399&z=16
Step 4: https://www.google.com/...536616305542566&z=16
Step 5: https://www.google.com/...399355140531952&z=16
Step 6: https://www.google.com/...1556307438963813&z=9


(This post was edited by windydcfc on Nov 28, 2016, 6:08 PM)


Unicorn
Chelsea Transfer Target

Nov 28, 2016, 4:38 PM

Posts: 3886
Location: Canterbury
Team(s): Arsenal and South Eastern Football

Post #141 of 149 (5551 views)
Shortcut
Re: [windydcfc] Step 3 and 4 Midland/Central League [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


In Reply To

In Reply To
If they don't take promotion it doesn't matter, so long as reprieves are kept to the NPL. The move of the NL to step 4 helps facilitate the creation of a fourth step 3 league, without the need to promote a whole new load of clubs to step 4. This should result in a more balanced step 2, with less of a shift to the south.

This obviously doesn't work if reprieves are handed out to Isthmian clubs, eventually the shift will happen again. The new central league will become more southerly and the northern league encroaching on the midlands.

If the southern boundary of the NPL is a line from Grimsby-Sheffield-Chester. Then the NPL step 3 division will become more attractive for the NL teams. After a period of time the former NL teams will balance out the demographics of the NPL Prem. As for promoting the NL1 on mass. It's not going to happen!


Of course it will not happen. Why the hell should it.
Its clear to me that the FA really do not want to create a Midland set up in the pyramid. But reluctantly they feel that they have to.
They dont want the aggravation of it all. So whatever they do will be kept as simple as is humanly possible. It will not involve changing everything in the pyramid as some are suggesting.


Part-Timer
Chelsea Transfer Target

Nov 28, 2016, 5:00 PM

Posts: 4524
Location: Huntingdonshire
Team(s): Brentford, Bradford City, Peterborough United, Yaxley

Post #142 of 149 (5536 views)
Shortcut
Re: [Unicorn] Step 3 and 4 Midland/Central League [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


In Reply To

In Reply To

In Reply To
If they don't take promotion it doesn't matter, so long as reprieves are kept to the NPL. The move of the NL to step 4 helps facilitate the creation of a fourth step 3 league, without the need to promote a whole new load of clubs to step 4. This should result in a more balanced step 2, with less of a shift to the south.

This obviously doesn't work if reprieves are handed out to Isthmian clubs, eventually the shift will happen again. The new central league will become more southerly and the northern league encroaching on the midlands.

If the southern boundary of the NPL is a line from Grimsby-Sheffield-Chester. Then the NPL step 3 division will become more attractive for the NL teams. After a period of time the former NL teams will balance out the demographics of the NPL Prem. As for promoting the NL1 on mass. It's not going to happen!


Of course it will not happen. Why the hell should it.
Its clear to me that the FA really do not want to create a Midland set up in the pyramid. But reluctantly they feel that they have to.
They dont want the aggravation of it all. So whatever they do will be kept as simple as is humanly possible. It will not involve changing everything in the pyramid as some are suggesting.

What have the FA said / done to make this clear to you?


Unicorn
Chelsea Transfer Target

Nov 28, 2016, 5:07 PM

Posts: 3886
Location: Canterbury
Team(s): Arsenal and South Eastern Football

Post #143 of 149 (5528 views)
Shortcut
Re: [Part-Timer] Step 3 and 4 Midland/Central League [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

It seems to have been talked about for years.
When something is up for discussion for a long while without being totally rejected it always means that the idea is ok but the authority lack the will to do it because of the upheaval involved.
The differences of opinion. The subsequent appeals. All a lot of grief that as far as i am concerned they have avoided facing.
But i feel as certain as i can be that change is about to happen.


windydcfc
Man City Transfer Target!


Dec 2, 2016, 6:42 PM

Posts: 10472
Location: Barnetby
Team(s): Derby County FC England Borussia Mönchengladbach

Post #144 of 149 (4921 views)
Shortcut
Re: [Unicorn] Step 3 and 4 Midland/Central League [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

I exchanged some tweets with one of Shildon's directors. They want to see any future NPL1E southern boundary to be north of Sheffield.



Non League Projection - 2020/21: https://docs.google.com/...UTgVhKYTo/edit#gid=0
Step 1: https://www.google.com/....119447550000018&z=7
Step 2: https://www.google.com/...677250654298405&z=15
Step 3: https://www.google.com/...358611350589399&z=16
Step 4: https://www.google.com/...536616305542566&z=16
Step 5: https://www.google.com/...399355140531952&z=16
Step 6: https://www.google.com/...1556307438963813&z=9


acmold
Man City Transfer Target!

Dec 2, 2016, 6:49 PM

Posts: 14497
Location:
Team(s):

Post #145 of 149 (4915 views)
Shortcut
Re: [windydcfc] Step 3 and 4 Midland/Central League [In reply to] Can't Post or


In Reply To
I exchanged some tweets with one of Shildon's directors. They want to see any future NPL1E southern boundary to be north of Sheffield.


Which could mean Central step 4 would be South Yorkshire, Lincolnshire and Norfolk and the East Midlands? .


windydcfc
Man City Transfer Target!


Dec 2, 2016, 6:58 PM

Posts: 10472
Location: Barnetby
Team(s): Derby County FC England Borussia Mönchengladbach

Post #146 of 149 (4907 views)
Shortcut
Re: [acmold] Step 3 and 4 Midland/Central League [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


In Reply To

In Reply To
I exchanged some tweets with one of Shildon's directors. They want to see any future NPL1E southern boundary to be north of Sheffield.


Which could mean Central step 4 would be South Yorkshire, Lincolnshire and Norfolk and the East Midlands? .

I don't think Norfolk will be part of it. I personally reckon it'll cover South Yorkshire, Staffordshire, Lincolnshire, Derbyshire, Nottinghamshire, Cambridgeshire all the the MFL & UCL area's!



Non League Projection - 2020/21: https://docs.google.com/...UTgVhKYTo/edit#gid=0
Step 1: https://www.google.com/....119447550000018&z=7
Step 2: https://www.google.com/...677250654298405&z=15
Step 3: https://www.google.com/...358611350589399&z=16
Step 4: https://www.google.com/...536616305542566&z=16
Step 5: https://www.google.com/...399355140531952&z=16
Step 6: https://www.google.com/...1556307438963813&z=9


(This post was edited by windydcfc on Dec 2, 2016, 6:59 PM)


Richard Rundle
Man City Transfer Target!

Dec 2, 2016, 7:01 PM

Posts: 8469
Location:
Team(s):

Post #147 of 149 (4904 views)
Shortcut
Re: [windydcfc] Step 3 and 4 Midland/Central League [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

That would be a stretch at Step 3, let alone Step 4.


windydcfc
Man City Transfer Target!


Dec 2, 2016, 7:07 PM

Posts: 10472
Location: Barnetby
Team(s): Derby County FC England Borussia Mönchengladbach

Post #148 of 149 (4892 views)
Shortcut
Re: [Richard Rundle] Step 3 and 4 Midland/Central League [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


In Reply To
That would be a stretch at Step 3, let alone Step 4.

Sorry I missed that he'd put step 4. I was talking about the whole of the Midlands step 3 league. Just split it down the M1 & there's your step 4 leagues.



Non League Projection - 2020/21: https://docs.google.com/...UTgVhKYTo/edit#gid=0
Step 1: https://www.google.com/....119447550000018&z=7
Step 2: https://www.google.com/...677250654298405&z=15
Step 3: https://www.google.com/...358611350589399&z=16
Step 4: https://www.google.com/...536616305542566&z=16
Step 5: https://www.google.com/...399355140531952&z=16
Step 6: https://www.google.com/...1556307438963813&z=9


(This post was edited by windydcfc on Dec 2, 2016, 7:08 PM)


windydcfc
Man City Transfer Target!


Jan 6, 2017, 10:50 PM

Posts: 10472
Location: Barnetby
Team(s): Derby County FC England Borussia Mönchengladbach

Post #149 of 149 (3895 views)
Shortcut
Re: [windydcfc] Step 3 and 4 Midland/Central League [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

I've been told that the FA are soon(that doesn't mean imminent) going to brief something official about the Midlands/Central league at step 3/4.



Non League Projection - 2020/21: https://docs.google.com/...UTgVhKYTo/edit#gid=0
Step 1: https://www.google.com/....119447550000018&z=7
Step 2: https://www.google.com/...677250654298405&z=15
Step 3: https://www.google.com/...358611350589399&z=16
Step 4: https://www.google.com/...536616305542566&z=16
Step 5: https://www.google.com/...399355140531952&z=16
Step 6: https://www.google.com/...1556307438963813&z=9

First page Previous page 1 2 3 4 5 6 Next page Last page  View All
 
 


free hit counters

Search for (options) HOSTED BY SUMMIT SOCCER v.1.2.3