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Home: Non-League Football Discussion: Restructuring Discussion:
Essex step 6

 

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Unicorn
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Nov 8, 2016, 7:16 AM

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Post #1 of 367 (44319 views)
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Essex step 6 Can't Post or Reply Privately

I can't find that this has been mentioned anywhere.
There seems to be positive steps to finally get something started.


yorkieexile
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Nov 8, 2016, 7:32 AM

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Post #2 of 367 (44310 views)
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Re: [Unicorn] Essex step 6 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

Are you going to say what those steps are?


Unicorn
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Nov 8, 2016, 7:35 AM

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Re: [yorkieexile] Essex step 6 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


In Reply To
Are you going to say what those steps are?


Afraid not.
I posted in the hope that someone from the Essex/ East Anglia area would enlighten us.


007Dale
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Nov 8, 2016, 8:43 AM

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Re: [Unicorn] Essex step 6 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

Not sure I understand the clambering for a Step 6 Essex league, there simly aren't enough clubs to warrant it. The current step 5 league is (IMO) a step 5/6 mix.


Unicorn
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Nov 8, 2016, 8:57 AM

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Re: [007Dale] Essex step 6 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


In Reply To
Not sure I understand the clambering for a Step 6 Essex league, there simly aren't enough clubs to warrant it. The current step 5 league is (IMO) a step 5/6 mix.


That was said about Kent.
But it happened.
But thats not really the point.
Nick Robinson is involved and he made the KIL happen so presumable he will succeed again.


Geoff
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Nov 10, 2016, 12:37 PM

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Re: [Unicorn] Essex step 6 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

The F.A. have revived this is idea again after the last attempt (a few years back) got virtually no interest from potential clubs wanting to step up.
They have written an open letter (see Essex Senior League on Full Time, click on the link below the “FA Step 6 Communication” heading) and asked member leagues to distribute it to clubs.
The plan seems to be to set up two 16 team step 6 divisions covering Norfolk, Suffolk & Essex (and bordering areas) split geographically. New clubs will it seems have 5 years (as with the Kent Invicta) to get grounds up to standard.
As there already 21 step 6 clubs in the Eastern Counties league only an additional 11 clubs are needed to make up the numbers.
The idea does have merits. It may encourage more clubs from North Norfolk to make the step up if they are not facing the prospect of long journeys to Essex and it will provide somewhere from any clubs relegated from the now up to strength Essex Senior League to go.
On the down side I wonder how many of the teams in Division 1 of the Eastern Counties League would be happy to move to an Essex/East London/South Suffolk division and if even the relatively modest target of 11 new clubs is achievable (although it could, of course, include some reserve/academy teams).
The FA invited clubs to register interest by 31st October so it will be interesting to see how many have done so. The promised free ground inspection may encourage interest but it remains to be seen if enough clubs retain their interest after finding out exactly what they need to do to make the idea viable.


acmold
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Nov 10, 2016, 12:50 PM

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Re: [Geoff] Essex step 6 [In reply to] Can't Post or

Is it really just a way of changing the footprints of the two leagues?.

It would cut down on second XI's in ECL because the Essex ones and maybe south Suffolk ones could end up in Essex.


windydcfc
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Nov 10, 2016, 2:19 PM

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Post #8 of 367 (43542 views)
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Re: [Geoff] Essex step 6 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


In Reply To
The F.A. have revived this is idea again after the last attempt (a few years back) got virtually no interest from potential clubs wanting to step up.
They have written an open letter (see Essex Senior League on Full Time, click on the link below the “FA Step 6 Communication” heading) and asked member leagues to distribute it to clubs.
The plan seems to be to set up two 16 team step 6 divisions covering Norfolk, Suffolk & Essex (and bordering areas) split geographically. New clubs will it seems have 5 years (as with the Kent Invicta) to get grounds up to standard.
As there already 21 step 6 clubs in the Eastern Counties league only an additional 11 clubs are needed to make up the numbers.
The idea does have merits. It may encourage more clubs from North Norfolk to make the step up if they are not facing the prospect of long journeys to Essex and it will provide somewhere from any clubs relegated from the now up to strength Essex Senior League to go.
On the down side I wonder how many of the teams in Division 1 of the Eastern Counties League would be happy to move to an Essex/East London/South Suffolk division and if even the relatively modest target of 11 new clubs is achievable (although it could, of course, include some reserve/academy teams).
The FA invited clubs to register interest by 31st October so it will be interesting to see how many have done so. The promised free ground inspection may encourage interest but it remains to be seen if enough clubs retain their interest after finding out exactly what they need to do to make the idea viable.
Here's the link http://resources.thefa.com/...ague2829940/3636.pdf the FA also said that they'd look at laterally moving clubs from other step 6 leagues. So there are a couple of Eastern SSML1 sides that are in the ESL footprint. So the target could be only 9 clubs, if not less!




Non League Projection - 2020/21: https://docs.google.com/...UTgVhKYTo/edit#gid=0
Step 1: https://www.google.com/....119447550000018&z=7
Step 2: https://www.google.com/...677250654298405&z=15
Step 3: https://www.google.com/...358611350589399&z=16
Step 4: https://www.google.com/...536616305542566&z=16
Step 5: https://www.google.com/...399355140531952&z=16
Step 6: https://www.google.com/...1556307438963813&z=9


(This post was edited by windydcfc on Nov 10, 2016, 2:23 PM)


wazzafan
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Nov 10, 2016, 3:36 PM

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Post #9 of 367 (43453 views)
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Re: [windydcfc] Essex step 6 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

The line that pleases me is "adding to that clubs moving from the Essex League at Step 5 by a reduction in numbers"

This needs to be done, and I'm glad it's been mentioned. No chance it gets the numbers otherwise.

It's certainly got my thinking cap on! What are the chances of Coggeshall, Halstead and Holland all being promoted to Step 5 and avoiding all of this! Laugh



Non League Projections - 2018/19: http://goo.gl/5UvkvE

Step 1: http://goo.gl/9QipfY
Step 2: http://goo.gl/VoE1oY
Step 3: http://goo.gl/Ru3jUk
Step 4: http://goo.gl/QHVmDA
Step 5: http://goo.gl/VrnrYg
Step 6: http://goo.gl/Mk86of


nico
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Nov 10, 2016, 4:11 PM

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Post #10 of 367 (43411 views)
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Re: [windydcfc] Essex step 6 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

Move a few more and it's easily achievable! How about?

Eastern Counties Lge Div 1...
1 Wisbech St. Mary / 2 March Town United / 3 Kings Lynn Town res. / 4 Downham Town / 5 Dereham Town res. / 6 Diss Town / 7 Team Bury / 8 Stowmarket Town / 9 Needham Market res. / 10 Debenham LC / 11 Framlingham Town / 12 Leiston res. / 13 Woodbridge Town / 14 Whitton United / 15 Spixworth {AC-P} / 16 Crane Sports {S&IL-S}

"Essex" Senior Lge Div 1...
1. Haverhill Borough {ECL-1}
2. AFC Sudbury res. {ECL-1}
3. Cornard United {ECL-1}
4. Halstead Town {ECL-1}
5. Braintree Town res. {ECL-1}
6. Coggeshall Town {ECL-1}
7. Holland FC {ECL-1}
8. Wodson Park {SPSML-1}
9. Brimsdown {SPSML-1}
10 Enfield Borough {SPSML-2}
11 Standon & Puckeridge {HSC-P}
12 Ware Sports {HSC-P}
13 Wormley Rovers {HSC-P}
14 Sporting Hackney {MCL-P}
15 Bishop Stortford Swifts {EOL-P}
16 Gas Recreation {E&SBL-P}

But like Geoff said, would the Eastern Counties League Div 1 clubs be happy with being moved?



One moment's high and glory rolls on by


youngster
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Nov 10, 2016, 7:03 PM

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Post #11 of 367 (43269 views)
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Re: [nico] Essex step 6 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

I don't care how they do it, as long as they do. It's ridiculous a bunch of lads can just leap into step 5 without a ground or any structure. If all else fails, just demote the ESL to step 6 and let it feed leagues that are part of the genuine pyramid.


Unicorn
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Nov 10, 2016, 7:22 PM

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Post #12 of 367 (43237 views)
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Re: [youngster] Essex step 6 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


In Reply To
If all else fails, just demote the ESL to step 6 and let it feed leagues that are part of the genuine pyramid.


But that is totally unfair to the clubs in the Essex Senior League.
I can never see that happening.


wazzafan
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Nov 10, 2016, 10:05 PM

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Post #13 of 367 (43108 views)
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Re: [nico] Essex step 6 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

I don't even think it will have to dip into Suffolk. If you include 4 reserve teams and get 4 teams relegated from the Essex Senior League. It could work quite easily.

Based on current projections for 2017/2018 (my selection of reserves sides are random):

1. Billericay Town Reserves (NEW)
2. Braintree Town Reserves (From EC1)
3. Brimsdown (From SSM1)
4. Burnham Ramblers (From ESL)
5. Canning Town (From EOL)
6. Chelmsford City Reserves (NEW)
7. Enfield Borough (From SSM2)
8. F.C. Clacton (From ECP)
9. Halstead Town (From EC1)
10. Haringey & Waltham (From ESL)
11. Sporting Bengal United (From ESL)
12. St. Margaretsbury (From SSMP)
13. Thurrock Reserves (NEW)
14. West Essex (From ESL)
15. White Ensign (From EOL)
16. Wodson Park (From SSM1)

This would leave the Eastern Counties league at 18 clubs without any step 7 promotions. All they'd have to do is relegate two reserve sides (the current bottom two are Dereham and Leiston) and get themselves under the 25% rule for reserve sides at step 6.



Non League Projections - 2018/19: http://goo.gl/5UvkvE

Step 1: http://goo.gl/9QipfY
Step 2: http://goo.gl/VoE1oY
Step 3: http://goo.gl/Ru3jUk
Step 4: http://goo.gl/QHVmDA
Step 5: http://goo.gl/VrnrYg
Step 6: http://goo.gl/Mk86of


(This post was edited by wazzafan on Nov 10, 2016, 10:07 PM)


windydcfc
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Nov 10, 2016, 10:30 PM

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Post #14 of 367 (43083 views)
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Re: [wazzafan] Essex step 6 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

Sporting Hackney have ambitions to achieve step 5 status. So I assume that they'll be chucking there hat into the ESL1 ring.
http://www.sportinghackney.co.uk/the-club.html



Non League Projection - 2020/21: https://docs.google.com/...UTgVhKYTo/edit#gid=0
Step 1: https://www.google.com/....119447550000018&z=7
Step 2: https://www.google.com/...677250654298405&z=15
Step 3: https://www.google.com/...358611350589399&z=16
Step 4: https://www.google.com/...536616305542566&z=16
Step 5: https://www.google.com/...399355140531952&z=16
Step 6: https://www.google.com/...1556307438963813&z=9


Unicorn
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Nov 10, 2016, 10:55 PM

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Post #15 of 367 (43060 views)
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Re: [wazzafan] Essex step 6 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

I thought it was one of the anomalies of the pyramid that the 25% rule for reserves existed at step 7 but not at step 6.
However i like your suggested division but it could surely not be implemented until the end of the 2017/18 season.
Relegating four teams would not be on for the end of 2016/17 because it needs to be the intention at the start of the season unless they demote four clubs on ground grading issues.


(This post was edited by Unicorn on Nov 10, 2016, 10:56 PM)


wazzafan
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Nov 11, 2016, 7:27 AM

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Post #16 of 367 (42836 views)
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Re: [Unicorn] Essex step 6 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

Yes you'd be right, I'm just projecting what it could look like next season. All in all, it might not be too dissimilar the season after. However, like you say, this would have to be agreed on next summer at their AGM and that includes the 4 relegation spots from the ESL.



Non League Projections - 2018/19: http://goo.gl/5UvkvE

Step 1: http://goo.gl/9QipfY
Step 2: http://goo.gl/VoE1oY
Step 3: http://goo.gl/Ru3jUk
Step 4: http://goo.gl/QHVmDA
Step 5: http://goo.gl/VrnrYg
Step 6: http://goo.gl/Mk86of


Unicorn
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Nov 11, 2016, 8:07 AM

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Re: [wazzafan] Essex step 6 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

Unless some of these things have already been agreed and just not reported.
The FA letter did kind of intimate that much of the ground work has already been done.
I can't remember the exact words but it indicated that the Leagues involved were on side with these proposals.


Geoff
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Nov 12, 2016, 11:10 AM

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Post #18 of 367 (42433 views)
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Re: [youngster] Essex step 6 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

I don’t see how the ESL can be classed as “not part of the genuine pyramid” as its record of promoting clubs is second to none among the step 5 leagues. Is a league which has around one third of its side unable to take promotion (because they are reserve sides) any more genuine?
Several of the clubs that have been promoted into the ESL from Step 7 have been on the insistence of the F.A. with the league having to comply. To be fair to the FA these clubs have managed the step up O.K. so to describe them as having “no ground or structure” is not only unfair but also inaccurate.
To have step 5 clubs in the south east travelling from deepest Essex to Bedford, the south Kent coast or Hampshire (and vice versa) just to tidy up the pyramid is clearly madness. I know other step 5 leagues travel similar distances but that is only because they have to as they cover areas of much lower population density.


windydcfc
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Nov 13, 2016, 10:05 PM

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Re: [Geoff] Essex step 6 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

The only question I'd like to ask the FA about there thinking on the ESL1 idea. At some point are they going to mirror the footprint changes for the ESL/ECL at step 5? Surely they aren't going to have the bizarre situation whereby ESL step 6 teams travel considerably further than ESL step 5 teams. Plus the fact that teams that gain promotion or are relegated end up being shunted from league to the next depending on there locality. Can't the FA create two leagues with divisions that have similar footprints, even if some lower end ESL teams are demoted to achieve this!



Non League Projection - 2020/21: https://docs.google.com/...UTgVhKYTo/edit#gid=0
Step 1: https://www.google.com/....119447550000018&z=7
Step 2: https://www.google.com/...677250654298405&z=15
Step 3: https://www.google.com/...358611350589399&z=16
Step 4: https://www.google.com/...536616305542566&z=16
Step 5: https://www.google.com/...399355140531952&z=16
Step 6: https://www.google.com/...1556307438963813&z=9


(This post was edited by windydcfc on Nov 13, 2016, 10:07 PM)


Unicorn
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Nov 14, 2016, 6:38 AM

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Post #20 of 367 (42004 views)
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Re: [windydcfc] Essex step 6 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

The letter suggests to me that it is the intention to do just that.
But all they are seemingly doing here is creating a new division for the Essex Senior League by moving teams around.
Not a new league like the KIL was.
I actually think with the authority to override any rules that get in the way this should be a relatively easy process.


(This post was edited by Unicorn on Nov 14, 2016, 6:44 AM)


windydcfc
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Nov 14, 2016, 7:08 AM

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Post #21 of 367 (41994 views)
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Re: [Unicorn] Essex step 6 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


In Reply To
The letter suggests to me that it is the intention to do just that.
But all they are seemingly doing here is creating a new division for the Essex Senior League by moving teams around.
Not a new league like the KIL was.
I actually think with the authority to override any rules that get in the way this should be a relatively easy process.

I emailed Matt Edkins last night and he replied straight away. The intention is to do exactly what I'm suggesting. But he says it's difficult to predict the outcome until they've had a proposed membership. But he says the intention is to have an East/West split & not a North/South!



Non League Projection - 2020/21: https://docs.google.com/...UTgVhKYTo/edit#gid=0
Step 1: https://www.google.com/....119447550000018&z=7
Step 2: https://www.google.com/...677250654298405&z=15
Step 3: https://www.google.com/...358611350589399&z=16
Step 4: https://www.google.com/...536616305542566&z=16
Step 5: https://www.google.com/...399355140531952&z=16
Step 6: https://www.google.com/...1556307438963813&z=9


(This post was edited by windydcfc on Nov 14, 2016, 7:28 AM)


Unicorn
Chelsea Transfer Target

Nov 14, 2016, 7:18 AM

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Post #22 of 367 (41992 views)
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Re: [windydcfc] Essex step 6 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

Yes thats what you think they should do.
Nick Robinsons open letter indicates that as well.
And now Matt Edkins has confirmed it as their intension.

So thats the path they are going down and the East / West split makes far more sense than North/ South.
I just hope they do it this time. A step 6 full of reserve sides is better than no step 6 at all. In time it sorts its self out.


ladderman
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Nov 14, 2016, 11:25 AM

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Post #23 of 367 (41885 views)
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Re: [youngster] Essex step 6 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


Quote
If all else fails, just demote the ESL to step 6 and let it feed leagues that are part of the genuine pyramid.


How utterly predictably that someone would spout that shit again.


ladderman
Man City Transfer Target!

Nov 14, 2016, 11:33 AM

Posts: 7419
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Team(s): Bishop's Stortford & Cambridge United

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Re: [nico] Essex step 6 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

BS Swifts' "ground" is a roped off pitch. They share a site with the rugby club and I can't see them building a stand, and with 2000 houses about be built nearby I think they'd struggle to get lights.
Standon is also just a park pitch.
We currently run a side in the ESL reserve division, it's basically full of kids while some of our academy side play for the first team of local ESL clubs. I imagine we'd be interested in putting a side in a step 6 division. The current team serves no purpose as a reserve side (and wasn't set up to be one) but the only real option for a Saturday reserve team is ECL1 and it's considered that's too much travelling.


Uncle T
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Nov 15, 2016, 9:16 AM

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Re: [ladderman] Essex step 6 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

Also St Margaretsbury are currently step 5 club so why would they go to step 6 unless they were relegated.

Why have reserve sides in a league that is part of the NLS?

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