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jrev61
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Mar 9, 2008, 5:08 PM

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Cardiff City Can't Post or Reply Privately

Presumably if Cardiff City win the FA Cup they will not qualify for the UEFA Cup as they are a Welsh Club. But will the runners-up qualify or will an extra Premiership side get the extra place?
Have just watched Cardiff's 2-0 win at Middlesbrough. I don't think I have ever seen such a feeble performance from a Premiership side against lower division opposition. They created no clear-cut chances in the whole game, apart from a free-kick which sailed over the bar.
If you judge the Premiership by FA Cup results this season, it's rubbish, but if you go on UEFA Champions League results (so far) it's the best league in Europe.



jrev61


DavetheGlassboy
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Mar 9, 2008, 5:48 PM

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Re: [jrev61] Cardiff City [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

I'd presume that the same scenario would apply as if a Champions League qualified team makes the final, ie. the runners-up would get the UEFA Cup spot.



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dave
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Mar 9, 2008, 8:32 PM

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Re: [DavetheGlassboy] Cardiff City [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

Makes you wonder how Lyon, AC Milan, and Olympiakos would get on in the championship.


Balerion
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Mar 10, 2008, 4:27 AM

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Re: [dave] Cardiff City [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


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Makes you wonder how Lyon, AC Milan, and Olympiakos would get on in the championship.


If either of those three clubs played a season in the championship, the biggest thing to wonder about is whether they would break Reading's record of 106 points.


Ancient Wolf
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Mar 10, 2008, 2:08 PM

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Re: [jrev61] Cardiff City [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


In Reply To
Presumably if Cardiff City win the FA Cup they will not qualify for the UEFA Cup as they are a Welsh Club. But will the runners-up qualify or will an extra Premiership side get the extra place?
Have just watched Cardiff's 2-0 win at Middlesbrough. I don't think I have ever seen such a feeble performance from a Premiership side against lower division opposition. They created no clear-cut chances in the whole game, apart from a free-kick which sailed over the bar.
If you judge the Premiership by FA Cup results this season, it's rubbish, but if you go on UEFA Champions League results (so far) it's the best league in Europe.


Hi John
I agree. This is probably the most disappointing result in Boro's long and inglorious history. Over the last 10 years we've tended to do well in the cups and only fall late on against the big clubs. The feeling is if we couldn't win it this year we never will.

Mike


cope1
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Mar 12, 2008, 5:24 PM

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Re: [Ancient Wolf] Cardiff City [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

According to BBC Sport Michel Platini will support Cardiff's claim to a UEFA Cup spot if they win the Cup (see link below). The article cites the example of Derry, based in NI but representing ROI, as precedent which is something I agree with. The reasons for them playing in 'other' countries are different but in both cases agreed by the FAs in question, UEFA and FIFA.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/...iff_city/7292287.stm


mick
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Mar 12, 2008, 7:29 PM

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Re: [cope1] Cardiff City [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


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According to BBC Sport Michel Platini will support Cardiff's claim to a UEFA Cup spot if they win the Cup (see link below). The article cites the example of Derry, based in NI but representing ROI, as precedent which is something I agree with. The reasons for them playing in 'other' countries are different but in both cases agreed by the FAs in question, UEFA and FIFA.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/...iff_city/7292287.stm


My understanding (which may be wrong) is that Derry City are full members of the FAI. If so, there is no precedent as Cardiff are not full members of the FA. Similarly with the other clubs mentioned - Berwick are full members of the Scottish FA and Monaco are members of the French FA.


cope1
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Mar 12, 2008, 11:51 PM

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Re: [mick] Cardiff City [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

This is true although personally I still think there is a precedent in that Cardiff are effectively an English club - whatever their status with the FA - as they play in the English league system and English FA Cup, and do not contest the Welsh League or Cup (I know they play in the FAW Premier Cup but that does not impact on international competitions in any way).


dave
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Mar 13, 2008, 7:03 PM

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Re: [cope1] Cardiff City [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


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According to BBC Sport Michel Platini will support Cardiff's claim to a UEFA Cup spot if they win the Cup (see link below).

Yes, but UEFA president tells audience what they want to here, is not really news is it.


eesti7
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Mar 17, 2008, 8:23 PM

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Re: [dave] Cardiff City [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

Why are Cardiff City, and the other Welsh clubs in English leagues, not allowed to play in the Welsh Cup? Presumably they are full members of the Welsh FA.

I'm told that Vaduz of Leichtenstein play in the Swiss League but regularly qualify for Europe by winning the Leichtenstein FA Cup. So presumably the rules preventing Cardiff etc entering are internal?


zebedee
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Mar 17, 2008, 11:25 PM

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Re: [eesti7] Cardiff City [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


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Why are Cardiff City, and the other Welsh clubs in English leagues, not allowed to play in the Welsh Cup? Presumably they are full members of the Welsh FA.

I'm told that Vaduz of Leichtenstein play in the Swiss League but regularly qualify for Europe by winning the Leichtenstein FA Cup. So presumably the rules preventing Cardiff etc entering are internal?


I suspect its to do with Liechtenstein not having its own league and so the situation is similar to Wales before the League of Wales formed.


vienna1964
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Mar 18, 2008, 10:22 AM

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Post #12 of 97 (7035 views)
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Re: [eesti7] Cardiff City [In reply to] Can't Post or


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Why are Cardiff City, and the other Welsh clubs in English leagues, not allowed to play in the Welsh Cup? Presumably they are full members of the Welsh FA.



I think its the old 'either/or' argument here... and they all prefer to be in the English tournament.



I APOLOGISE UNRESERVEDLY TO EACH AND EVERY PERSON ON THIS FORUM WHO HAS FELT LET-DOWN BY MY INIMICABLE AND DEPLORABLE BEHAVIOUR OF OCTOBER 28th. 2009. ESPECIALLY TO BRIAN, WHO IS A MARVELLOUS GENTLEMAN AND IS THE LAST PERSON HERE WHO SHOULD HAVE TO PUT UP WITH SUCH UNDESERVED PERSONAL CHARACTER-ASSASSINATION. LET IT BE KNOWN THAT A PRIVATE PERSONAL APOLOGY WAS SENT, BUT WAS SEEN INSUFFICIENT. FAIR ENOUGH.


Russell
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Mar 18, 2008, 1:18 PM

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Re: [vienna1964] Cardiff City [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

English clubs who won the Welsh Cup were not allowed to play in Europe?


UKPunk
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Mar 18, 2008, 8:01 PM

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Re: [Russell] Cardiff City [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

Leo has written a very good article about this on his blog which answers all the questions.



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Degerloch
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Apr 16, 2008, 6:24 PM

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Re: [UKPunk] Cardiff City [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

Platini now supports the idea of a wild card for Cardiff City.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/...iff_city/7350681.stm

Does this mean that the FA cup runner-up will get into the UEFA cup?


cope1
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Apr 16, 2008, 10:44 PM

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Platini now supports the idea of a wild card for Cardiff City.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/...iff_city/7350681.stm

Does this mean that the FA cup runner-up will get into the UEFA cup?


Unless Pompey win the cup and finish 5th the runner-up wouldn't get anything. I don't see what the Cardiff thing would make any difference to that - am I missing something?


Degerloch
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Apr 17, 2008, 9:26 AM

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Re: [cope1] Cardiff City [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

i think my point was that; if Cardiff win the cup and get a wild card into the uefa cup, there is still an "English" uefa cup place up for grabs. Are pompey in europe whether they win or lose?


cope1
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Apr 17, 2008, 11:30 AM

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Re: [Degerloch] Cardiff City [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

I see what you mean. From that BBC article it seemed to me that the FA have decided to give Cardiff the winners' spot in the UEFA Cup.


vienna1964
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Re: [cope1] Cardiff City [In reply to] Can't Post or

As far as I understand things... Pompey will get the Cup place should they win the Cup but fail to overhaul Everton to 5th. position in League (and this could be a close run thing after tonite's result !).

Should Pompey get 5th. League position, then Cardiff would technically qualify via the Cup - but only if allowed this 'wild card' - as would also apply should they actually defeat Pompey in the Final.

Were Cardiff not allowed that 'wild card' under any circumstances, the Cup position would go to Pompey as a matter of course and the League placing to 5th./6th.place club (probably Everton anyhow, even if Portsmouth DO finish above them !)

The League Cup position is not in doubt and that WILL BE Spurs.



I APOLOGISE UNRESERVEDLY TO EACH AND EVERY PERSON ON THIS FORUM WHO HAS FELT LET-DOWN BY MY INIMICABLE AND DEPLORABLE BEHAVIOUR OF OCTOBER 28th. 2009. ESPECIALLY TO BRIAN, WHO IS A MARVELLOUS GENTLEMAN AND IS THE LAST PERSON HERE WHO SHOULD HAVE TO PUT UP WITH SUCH UNDESERVED PERSONAL CHARACTER-ASSASSINATION. LET IT BE KNOWN THAT A PRIVATE PERSONAL APOLOGY WAS SENT, BUT WAS SEEN INSUFFICIENT. FAIR ENOUGH.


mnewz
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Apr 18, 2008, 5:23 PM

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Re: [vienna1964] Cardiff City [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

I am totally confused. According to Tony's table, Pompey would qualify for Europe with a 7th place finish. But now I read that if they lose the FA Cup final, they would have to finish 5th to qualify!

Please try and explain this contradiction.Unsure

Michael


vienna1964
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Apr 18, 2008, 8:47 PM

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I am totally confused. According to Tony's table, Pompey would qualify for Europe with a 7th place finish. But now I read that if they lose the FA Cup final, they would have to finish 5th to qualify!

Please try and explain this contradiction.Unsure

Michael



Bear in mid that I COULD BE COMPLETELY WRONG in my assumptions...

England get seven European places by right and four of these are CL slots with three further UEFAC slots.

The FA has a choice whom to elect for participation in the UEFAC and the UEFA 'default' position is that these would normally be positions five to seven inclusive in the League.

The FA either agrees this or puts forward other suitable candidates... which are normally the F.A. Cup winners & the League Cup winners.

However, none of this is actually 'cut and dried' until the season has actually ended, so I presume that TK just continues to show the 'default position' as a matter of course.

One thing is absolutely definite... England is allowed a maximum of seven entrants into all UEFA club competitions for 2008-09.

(and then there's Cardiff !!!)



I APOLOGISE UNRESERVEDLY TO EACH AND EVERY PERSON ON THIS FORUM WHO HAS FELT LET-DOWN BY MY INIMICABLE AND DEPLORABLE BEHAVIOUR OF OCTOBER 28th. 2009. ESPECIALLY TO BRIAN, WHO IS A MARVELLOUS GENTLEMAN AND IS THE LAST PERSON HERE WHO SHOULD HAVE TO PUT UP WITH SUCH UNDESERVED PERSONAL CHARACTER-ASSASSINATION. LET IT BE KNOWN THAT A PRIVATE PERSONAL APOLOGY WAS SENT, BUT WAS SEEN INSUFFICIENT. FAIR ENOUGH.


hawkwind
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Apr 18, 2008, 10:18 PM

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Re: [vienna1964] Cardiff City [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


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In Reply To
I am totally confused. According to Tony's table, Pompey would qualify for Europe with a 7th place finish. But now I read that if they lose the FA Cup final, they would have to finish 5th to qualify!

Please try and explain this contradiction.Unsure

Michael



Bear in mid that I COULD BE COMPLETELY WRONG in my assumptions...

England get seven European places by right and four of these are CL slots with three further UEFAC slots.

The FA has a choice whom to elect for participation in the UEFAC and the UEFA 'default' position is that these would normally be positions five to seven inclusive in the League.

The FA either agrees this or puts forward other suitable candidates... which are normally the F.A. Cup winners & the League Cup winners.

However, none of this is actually 'cut and dried' until the season has actually ended, so I presume that TK just continues to show the 'default position' as a matter of course.

One thing is absolutely definite... England is allowed a maximum of seven entrants into all UEFA club competitions for 2008-09.

(and then there's Cardiff !!!)


The UEFA 'default' position has national Cup winners as first priority in the UEFA Cup, where the Cup winners are also qualified for the Champions League the place goes to the runners-up unless they are also qualified for the Champions League, where both finalists are Champions League qualified the place reverts to the next highest league finisher not already qualified for Europe.

England (along with France) nominates their League Cup winners as choice number 2. Similar situation to the Cup except that League Cup runners-up are not nominated.

It is fairly normal for League tables in-season to show UEFA Cup places going to League finishers, in England's case in positions 5th to 7th. This can (probably should) be modified during the season once European qualifiers are known eg. Tottenham Hotspur are in the UEFA Cup for 2008-09 therefore 7th place is actually currently qualifiable for England's 8th European representative next season ie. the Intertoto which this season offered Blackburn Rovers a trip to Lithuania and a fairly comfortable passage into the UEFA Cup.

Finally there is the case of Manchester City who after 32 games were on top of the not likely to qualify for Europe any other way teams in the Fair Play table. England led the European Fair Play table at Christmas, haven't seen anything from UEFA since. If England retain 1st place that is an extra guaranteed UEFA Cup place.

So as of now we could imagine:
ECL: The same familiar faces.
UEFA Cup: Everton (5th), Tottenham Hotspur (LC Winners), Portsmouth (or eventually Cardiff City but that's another story) (FAC Winners), Manchester City (FairPlay), Aston Villa (via Intertoto if they've entered and depending on the FAC Final result).

But the season is not over yet.........................................................


dave
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Apr 20, 2008, 2:46 AM

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Re: [hawkwind] Cardiff City [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

Can someone explain what happens if say a team wins the FA Cup but has already qualified for Europe, and the cup runners up are a team from outside the Premier League (ignoring the issue with Cardiff for the moment.)


thowdreds
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Apr 20, 2008, 9:12 AM

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Re: [dave] Cardiff City [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

The FA Cup Runner Up goes into the UEFA Cup whether they are in the Premier League or not (as Millwall did a few seasons ago) if the winner has already qualified for the Champions League.


Degerloch
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Apr 20, 2008, 1:20 PM

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Re: [thowdreds] Cardiff City [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

So, ignoring the inter-toto and fair play places, England get 7 European places. Is Cardiff win the FAcup and get a wild card, will there be 8 teams who play in the English league playing European football next season?

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