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Home: Non-League Football Discussion: Restructuring Discussion:
FA meeting with step 5/6 leagues

 



VP
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Jul 11, 2016, 4:15 PM

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FA meeting with step 5/6 leagues Can't Post or Reply Privately

There was a meeting last weekend regarding the future of step 5 and 6, amongst other things. Taken from the CCL website - http://combinedcounties.pitchero.com/...s-at-leicester-31829

GROUND GRADING AND RE-STRUCTURING AMONGST TOPICS UNDER DISCUSSION

League Secretary Alan Constable and Vice-Chairman Tony Ford attended a Step 5/6 Leagues Meeting at Leicestershire County FA on Sunday 3 July 2016, to receive an update upon possible re-structuring and other matters.

The first piece of news was that, although the Leagues Committee of the FA wish to introduce additional divisions at Steps 3 and 4 in the Midlands, no re-structuring will take place pending resolution of the recent announcement by the Football League concerning their wish to expand to 100 clubs. This clearly is very sensible as such a move would inevitably have a knock-on effect upon the National Leaue System but it does mean that it would be at least two more seasons before Step 5 leagues and their clubs are likely to be affected by any re-structure.

There does seem to be universal acceptance, that, with the exception of the National League top division, 24 clubs in a division is too many. The suggestion for the future at Steps 5 and 6 is that there would be 20 clubs in Step 5 divisions and 18-20 at Step 6. The League is aware that some within the CCL would agree with this but at the most recent discussion at Management Committee level, albeit some time ago, there was still a view that we would like 22 clubs in our Premier Division and we voted accordingly in a straw poll. Most of the other Step 5 leagues present though seemed content to run with 20 in the future so that may well be where we are heading.

Other very interesting news was that consideration is being given to a review of the ground gradings, possibly with the intention to scrap Grade E, which is the entry grade for clubs aspiring to Step 4. Instead and as at other levels, clubs would be able to be promoted with their current grade (Grade F for our Premier Clubs) and they would then have until 31 March following to achieve the membership grade for Step 4, currently Grade D, of course.

There was plenty of discussion concerning clubs who finish in a promotion position but then refuse at a later date to take up promotion, and the disruption this can cause. There is talk of making promotion compulsory but it seems to us this may be easier said than done.

We raised the League’s concerns about the early start of the FA Cup and the very late notification and also the threat to remove grant money from leagues who have clubs who do not meet the full requirements of the level at which they compete. A statement was made though that the latter situation is not a “done deal” and that clubs will have the opportunity to put their case at the annual review hearing.

The meeting ended just before 3.30 p.m. and was a useful exercise, hopefully not only for the Leagues to express their views and concerns but also for the Football Association and their various representatives to hear first hand what Leagues had to say.


Unicorn
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Jul 12, 2016, 6:39 AM

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Post #2 of 16 (5118 views)
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Re: [VP] FA meeting with step 5/6 leagues [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

Interesting stuff.
So it looks like we can have at least two years free from rumours and speculation. I am however probably being naive.
One point surely the Football League propose expanding to 80 clubs not 100.


HarryC
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Jul 12, 2016, 9:07 AM

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Post #3 of 16 (4927 views)
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In Reply To
Interesting stuff.
So it looks like we can have at least two years free from rumours and speculation. I am however probably being naive.
One point surely the Football League propose expanding to 80 clubs not 100.



The FL will vote to implement or reject their proposed expansion at least one season before implementation date, e.g at 2017 AGM so teams know where they stand on promotion/relegation before the start of 2017-8 season for changes to kick in for 2018-9 season, so max of one year before the speculation on any changes to NL divisions and sizes can get back in full swing.



(This post was edited by HarryC on Jul 12, 2016, 9:07 AM)


windydcfc
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Jul 12, 2016, 9:12 AM

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In Reply To
Interesting stuff.
So it looks like we can have at least two years free from rumours and speculation. I am however probably being naive.
One point surely the Football League propose expanding to 80 clubs not 100.

The proposed Midlands League isn't rumour or speculation. It's clearly written in the statement.


ladderman
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Jul 12, 2016, 9:14 AM

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The 5x20 thing seems to be being used as excuse to do nothing at step 3/4. It's highly unlikely to happen and it's only eight teams. Conference Prem isn't going to disappear , so the impact on non-league football will be minimal.


Part-Timer
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Jul 12, 2016, 9:50 AM

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Interesting stuff.
So it looks like we can have at least two years free from rumours and speculation.

On the contrary. Now we know for sure that they are planing changes it means that rumour and speculation will flourish in the interim. Smile


SWP-Phil
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Jul 12, 2016, 10:02 AM

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Re: [Part-Timer] FA meeting with step 5/6 leagues [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

I was at the same meeting, long day to leave Devon go to Leicester and travel back !

I would agree with the CCL report but would add that it was deffo stated by the FA that they had looked at the Midlands starting in 2017/18 but that was now delayed by at least a year AND that any changes would be written into rules a full 12 months before it starts.



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Barbie
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Jul 12, 2016, 10:06 AM

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The 5x20 thing seems to be being used as excuse to do nothing at step 3/4. It's highly unlikely to happen and it's only eight teams. Conference Prem isn't going to disappear , so the impact on non-league football will be minimal.

Not at all. Whilst progress is undoubtedly slow, the proposals appear to be crystallising. The Midland League at steps 3/4 is explicit in the plans. If that goes in with 2 feeders and there are 20 club divisions across the board, it strips out 15 clubs from step 5 ( if step 1 stays at 24, then it's 19).


pokal02
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Jul 12, 2016, 11:30 AM

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Re: [Barbie] FA meeting with step 5/6 leagues [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

If 5x20 happens (which, looking at Bees' silly midweek games this season, I hope it does) that could be balanced by reducing Conf Nat & Step 3's to 22, leaving Steps 4 and below theoretically unaffected.

My main concern is that elevating yet more clubs to Step 3/4 will mean more clubs needing higher ground grading with the knock-on of 20-40 new clubs needed at Step 6 - which unless the requirement for lights is dropped, won't be achievable in most areas of the country.


paulh66
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Jul 12, 2016, 11:44 AM

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Re: [pokal02] FA meeting with step 5/6 leagues [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

 
My main concern is that elevating yet more clubs to Step 3/4 will mean more clubs needing higher ground grading with the knock-on of 20-40 new clubs needed at Step 6 - which unless the requirement for lights is dropped, won't be achievable in most areas of the country.


In effect the revised pyramid would be five steps rather than six and grading requirements would be determined accordingly. There seems to be an implicit acknowledgement in the game that grading requirements are increasingly a barrier to teams moving up so I can't see any way in which a restructured pyramid would suddenly place extra grading demands on dozens of clubs. Assuming it's all done sensibly, of course....


ladderman
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Jul 12, 2016, 3:56 PM

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Post #11 of 16 (4231 views)
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Quote
If 5x20 happens (which, looking at Bees' silly midweek games this season, I hope it does)


How do you think Barnet are gong to cope with the loss of revenue from four home games? Even allowing for the fact that midweek games are (generally) watched by smaller crowds, that's a loss of 10-15% of matchday revenue. Sending clubs on some of their longer trips midweek is a conscious decision by the FL. They work on the theory that Cambridge United will take only limited numbers to Yeovil whenever the game is, but they will take far more to Colchester on a Saturday than a Tuesday. if 100 less at Yeovil is offset by 300 extra at Colchester - and it's replicated across the league - gates are higher as a result. It helps the fans who go to the nearer away games, it hurts those who want to go everywhere.
Do you think you'd see Barnet play more if midweek league football effectively came to an end?


pokal02
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Jul 12, 2016, 7:12 PM

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Re: [ladderman] FA meeting with step 5/6 leagues [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

I can see the theory behind it, but for most League 2 clubs the differences will be slight (and Plymouth/Pompey both managed 1000 fans at our place midweek, how many would they have brought on a Saturday?).

Barnet would be well suited by 5x20 as we would have a reasonable expectation of being an above average side in the FL bottom division rather than one looking over our shoulders the whole time. There would be slightly less revenue, but with fewer games a squad of one or two kless might suffice, Maybe we could even take the EFL Trophy seriously!


pitch 63
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Jul 12, 2016, 11:45 PM

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Re: [pokal02] FA meeting with step 5/6 leagues [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

Has anybody said where those eight extra clubs in the FL are going to come from? If not I am suspicious that it might be a way of getting eight Premier Division U21 sides into the FL.


Unicorn
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Jul 13, 2016, 6:14 AM

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In Reply To
Has anybody said where those eight extra clubs in the FL are going to come from? If not I am suspicious that it might be a way of getting eight Premier Division U21 sides into the FL.


As i remember the Football League were less than enthusiastic about the Greg Dyke proposal.
Also if that was the idea it would not hold up or in any way effect the plans for restructure at steps 3and 4.


Unicorn
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Jul 13, 2016, 6:17 AM

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In Reply To

In Reply To
Interesting stuff.
So it looks like we can have at least two years free from rumours and speculation. I am however probably being naive.
One point surely the Football League propose expanding to 80 clubs not 100.

The proposed Midlands League isn't rumour or speculation. It's clearly written in the statement.


Yes but the detail is not. Miles of scope for rumours and speculation there.
Thats why i said i was being naive.


(This post was edited by Unicorn on Jul 13, 2016, 6:18 AM)


ladderman
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Jul 13, 2016, 9:32 AM

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Re: [pokal02] FA meeting with step 5/6 leagues [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

Plymouth brought 1400 (in August), Pompey comfortably sold their 1700 tickets and had fans in the home end. Neither are typical L2 clubs though.
My point is, it's not "slightly less revenue", but more importantly - and why this won't happen - is that 24 clubs (12 in L2) stand to drop a division if this happen. You might be happy with a one division drop, but you're a rarity in that you're a turkey voting for Christmas.
To get this back on topic, if the FA are going to reorganise step 3&4, they should get on and do it. Don't wait around because there's a chance that the FL might take 8 NL clubs, even if 5x20 happened there's a very good chance those extra 8 clubs are Prem B teams.

 
 


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