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Home: Non-League Football Discussion: Restructuring Discussion:
Isthmian Premier to relegate 6 next season

 

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bomaya
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Mar 28, 2016, 5:35 PM

Posts: 1581
Location: Merstham
Team(s): Merstham and Chelsea

Post #1 of 34 (6598 views)
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Isthmian Premier to relegate 6 next season Can't Post or Reply Privately

Not seen anything official on this but strong rumour has it the Isthmian Premier will relegate six teams next season to reduce the numbers back to 22. But thinking it through unless something else changes this would make the Step 4 Isthmian leagues have odd numbers so is this part of something wider happening?

One person said it was just about reducing the numbers, nothing more. Another mentioned the county leagues (he meant Step 5) were losing clubs and not getting them back which might suggest the large number of relegations will filter downwards. But I wonder (and hope) if this is a chance to get some other restructuring done and maybe give Step 5 clubs a year where two could go up (maybe via play offs to match Step 4).

Anyone else heard anything on this?


VP
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Mar 28, 2016, 5:46 PM

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Post #2 of 34 (6578 views)
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Re: [bomaya] Isthmian Premier to relegate 6 next season [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


In Reply To
strong rumour


That's an oxymoron in my world.


Richard Rundle
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Mar 28, 2016, 6:12 PM

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Post #3 of 34 (6551 views)
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Re: [VP] Isthmian Premier to relegate 6 next season [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

Forget rumours, there's too much of that on this forum in recent months.


HarryC
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Mar 28, 2016, 6:36 PM

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Post #4 of 34 (6528 views)
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Re: [bomaya] Isthmian Premier to relegate 6 next season [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

The leagues committee were looking at different ways to create a midland division, reducing numbers in ALL step 3&4 leagues was one way discussed to get a pool of teams without having to rob extra sides from step 5 again. so if the word is spreading about smaller divisions, then this could be the way it is going.


Rog Dodge
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Mar 28, 2016, 6:36 PM

Posts: 225
Location: Melton Mowbray
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Post #5 of 34 (6527 views)
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Re: [Richard Rundle] Isthmian Premier to relegate 6 next season [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


In Reply To
Forget rumours, there's too much of that on this forum in recent months.

Couldn't agree more!


windydcfc
Man City Transfer Target!


Mar 28, 2016, 6:37 PM

Posts: 10532
Location: Barnetby
Team(s): Derby County FC England Borussia Mönchengladbach

Post #6 of 34 (6525 views)
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Re: [Richard Rundle] Isthmian Premier to relegate 6 next season [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


In Reply To
Forget rumours, there's too much of that on this forum in recent months.

Aren't some of the rumours just facts that are being slipped out early anyway! Some news reports are slipped out months in advance & that's how journalists work. If we just had actual facts on this forum & nothing else! We'd just end up discussing what's happened after the event!



Non League Projection - 2020/21: https://docs.google.com/...UTgVhKYTo/edit#gid=0
Step 1: https://www.google.com/....119447550000018&z=7
Step 2: https://www.google.com/...677250654298405&z=15
Step 3: https://www.google.com/...358611350589399&z=16
Step 4: https://www.google.com/...536616305542566&z=16
Step 5: https://www.google.com/...399355140531952&z=16
Step 6: https://www.google.com/...1556307438963813&z=9


Unicorn
Chelsea Transfer Target

Mar 28, 2016, 8:09 PM

Posts: 3889
Location: Canterbury
Team(s): Arsenal and South Eastern Football

Post #7 of 34 (6421 views)
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Re: [Richard Rundle] Isthmian Premier to relegate 6 next season [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


In Reply To
Forget rumours, there's too much of that on this forum in recent months.


Most rumours have some basis to them.
But often the person that initially or subsequently repeats them misunderstands what they have heard or been told.
Some times a person merely gives an opinion regarding what they think will happen and others interpret it as a rumour.
Usually there is some basis to it but you are left to guess what.
But it has always been my view that if the powers that be were more open about matters that were being considered it would irradiate all rumours.
They want people to be interested in non league football but at the same time keep them in the dark about possible changes.
As a boxing correspondent said in the USA 50 years ago if you confuse people eventually they lose interest.
Boxing nearly died only super stars like Ali and Duran saved it.
They need to be more transparent or there is little long term future.


(This post was edited by Unicorn on Mar 28, 2016, 8:11 PM)


Geoff
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Mar 28, 2016, 8:53 PM

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Post #8 of 34 (6362 views)
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Re: [bomaya] Isthmian Premier to relegate 6 next season [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

In theory the Isthmian League has been relegating six clubs since it increased the number of clubs in each of its division ones to 24.
It has not happened yet due to voluntary relegations or clubs folding higher up the pyramid.
Maybe this year the bottom three in each of the two division ones will actually go down, but I suspect there will be reprieves again.


windydcfc
Man City Transfer Target!


Mar 28, 2016, 8:55 PM

Posts: 10532
Location: Barnetby
Team(s): Derby County FC England Borussia Mönchengladbach

Post #9 of 34 (6354 views)
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Re: [Unicorn] Isthmian Premier to relegate 6 next season [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


In Reply To

In Reply To
Forget rumours, there's too much of that on this forum in recent months.


Most rumours have some basis to them.
But often the person that initially or subsequently repeats them misunderstands what they have heard or been told.
Some times a person merely gives an opinion regarding what they think will happen and others interpret it as a rumour.
Usually there is some basis to it but you are left to guess what.
But it has always been my view that if the powers that be were more open about matters that were being considered it would irradiate all rumours.
They want people to be interested in non league football but at the same time keep them in the dark about possible changes.
As a boxing correspondent said in the USA 50 years ago if you confuse people eventually they lose interest.
Boxing nearly died only super stars like Ali and Duran saved it.
They need to be more transparent or there is little long term future.

The post that mentioned the pyramid changes that were discussed with the NL. Which mentioned reducing all step 3 leagues to 22 & step 4 to 20 clubs & creating a Midlands League, is most likely what this threads about!



Non League Projection - 2020/21: https://docs.google.com/...UTgVhKYTo/edit#gid=0
Step 1: https://www.google.com/....119447550000018&z=7
Step 2: https://www.google.com/...677250654298405&z=15
Step 3: https://www.google.com/...358611350589399&z=16
Step 4: https://www.google.com/...536616305542566&z=16
Step 5: https://www.google.com/...399355140531952&z=16
Step 6: https://www.google.com/...1556307438963813&z=9


(This post was edited by windydcfc on Mar 28, 2016, 10:19 PM)


Unicorn
Chelsea Transfer Target

Mar 28, 2016, 9:01 PM

Posts: 3889
Location: Canterbury
Team(s): Arsenal and South Eastern Football

Post #10 of 34 (6344 views)
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Re: [Geoff] Isthmian Premier to relegate 6 next season [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


In Reply To
In theory the Isthmian League has been relegating six clubs since it increased the number of clubs in each of its division ones to 24.
It has not happened yet due to voluntary relegations or clubs folding higher up the pyramid.
Maybe this year the bottom three in each of the two division ones will actually go down, but I suspect there will be reprieves again.


Its the Isthmian Premier that the rumour is about.


bomaya
First Team Star

Mar 28, 2016, 10:55 PM

Posts: 1581
Location: Merstham
Team(s): Merstham and Chelsea

Post #11 of 34 (6200 views)
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Re: [Unicorn] Isthmian Premier to relegate 6 next season [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


In Reply To

In Reply To
In theory the Isthmian League has been relegating six clubs since it increased the number of clubs in each of its division ones to 24.
It has not happened yet due to voluntary relegations or clubs folding higher up the pyramid.
Maybe this year the bottom three in each of the two division ones will actually go down, but I suspect there will be reprieves again.


Its the Isthmian Premier that the rumour is about.


Yep, six down from the Step 3 league in case I wasn't clear (which I thought I was!)


VP
Man City Transfer Target!


Mar 28, 2016, 11:31 PM

Posts: 10242
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Post #12 of 34 (6178 views)
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Re: [windydcfc] Isthmian Premier to relegate 6 next season [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


In Reply To

In Reply To
Forget rumours, there's too much of that on this forum in recent months.

Aren't some of the rumours just facts that are being slipped out early anyway! Some news reports are slipped out months in advance & that's how journalists work. If we just had actual facts on this forum & nothing else! We'd just end up discussing what's happened after the event!


Yeah, but journalists are on a par with MPs. The sooner they all lose their jobs the better. As a society we're getting there but there's still that hardcore of, generally, old gits who still buy papers and give these people a reason to exist.
All just my opinion of course.


windydcfc
Man City Transfer Target!


Mar 29, 2016, 6:59 AM

Posts: 10532
Location: Barnetby
Team(s): Derby County FC England Borussia Mönchengladbach

Post #13 of 34 (6069 views)
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Re: [VP] Isthmian Premier to relegate 6 next season [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


In Reply To

In Reply To

In Reply To
Forget rumours, there's too much of that on this forum in recent months.

Aren't some of the rumours just facts that are being slipped out early anyway! Some news reports are slipped out months in advance & that's how journalists work. If we just had actual facts on this forum & nothing else! We'd just end up discussing what's happened after the event!


Yeah, but journalists are on a par with MPs. The sooner they all lose their jobs the better. As a society we're getting there but there's still that hardcore of, generally, old gits who still buy papers and give these people a reason to exist.
All just my opinion of course.

Sports journalism isn't usually on a different par to news journalism. They actually want to get the real story out. What the British Sports journalists did in almost bringing down FIFA can only be applauded. I buy the NLP & FLP. Most of the scoops in the NLP have been discussed months in advance on this forum. So I only read it for the tables all in one area, the fans forum & the journalist opinion section!



Non League Projection - 2020/21: https://docs.google.com/...UTgVhKYTo/edit#gid=0
Step 1: https://www.google.com/....119447550000018&z=7
Step 2: https://www.google.com/...677250654298405&z=15
Step 3: https://www.google.com/...358611350589399&z=16
Step 4: https://www.google.com/...536616305542566&z=16
Step 5: https://www.google.com/...399355140531952&z=16
Step 6: https://www.google.com/...1556307438963813&z=9


markust
Youth Team Star

Mar 29, 2016, 2:48 PM

Posts: 286
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Post #14 of 34 (5733 views)
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Re: [bomaya] Isthmian Premier to relegate 6 next season [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

Lets put some numbers behind this rumour.

If we say this is part of the other rumour to create an extra step 4 league then relegating 6 to promote 2 assumes they are going to a 20 team premier. If this is mirrored in the SLP & NLP then we get the following:

ILP: R6 P2 = 4 'Spare' teams at Step 4
SLP; R6 P2 = 4 Spare
NLP: R6 P 2 = 4 Spare

That's 12 extra teams at step 4.

Also assume that all Step 4 leagues go to 22 teams:

ILD1N = 2 spare clubs
ILD1S = 2 spare clubs

Add them all up and that's 16 clubs 'spare' at step 4 to create a new division. There would then only be 6 additional spaces to fill by reprieves/extra promotions.


keneastlancs
Reserve Team Regular

Mar 29, 2016, 4:58 PM

Posts: 567
Location: Darwen Lancashire
Team(s): all non league - especially north western teams

Post #15 of 34 (5634 views)
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Re: [markust] Isthmian Premier to relegate 6 next season [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


In Reply To
Lets put some numbers behind this rumour.

If we say this is part of the other rumour to create an extra step 4 league then relegating 6 to promote 2 assumes they are going to a 20 team premier. If this is mirrored in the SLP & NLP then we get the following:

ILP: R6 P2 = 4 'Spare' teams at Step 4
SLP; R6 P2 = 4 Spare
NLP: R6 P 2 = 4 Spare

That's 12 extra teams at step 4.

Also assume that all Step 4 leagues go to 22 teams:

ILD1N = 2 spare clubs
ILD1S = 2 spare clubs

Add them all up and that's 16 clubs 'spare' at step 4 to create a new division. There would then only be 6 additional spaces to fill by reprieves/extra promotions.

but surely it would be 1 extra league at step 3 Midlands?? and 2 at step 4 midland east?? and west??


windydcfc
Man City Transfer Target!


Mar 29, 2016, 5:24 PM

Posts: 10532
Location: Barnetby
Team(s): Derby County FC England Borussia Mönchengladbach

Post #16 of 34 (5606 views)
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Re: [keneastlancs] Isthmian Premier to relegate 6 next season [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


In Reply To

In Reply To
Lets put some numbers behind this rumour.

If we say this is part of the other rumour to create an extra step 4 league then relegating 6 to promote 2 assumes they are going to a 20 team premier. If this is mirrored in the SLP & NLP then we get the following:

ILP: R6 P2 = 4 'Spare' teams at Step 4
SLP; R6 P2 = 4 Spare
NLP: R6 P 2 = 4 Spare

That's 12 extra teams at step 4.

Also assume that all Step 4 leagues go to 22 teams:

ILD1N = 2 spare clubs
ILD1S = 2 spare clubs

Add them all up and that's 16 clubs 'spare' at step 4 to create a new division. There would then only be 6 additional spaces to fill by reprieves/extra promotions.

but surely it would be 1 extra league at step 3 Midlands?? and 2 at step 4 midland east?? and west??

From what I've heard the FA are initially looking at a 1-2-4-7 & then further down the line adding an 8th league at step 4. This might coincide with a 16 division set up at step 5! It's definitely 22 clubs at step 3 & 20 clubs below that!



Non League Projection - 2020/21: https://docs.google.com/...UTgVhKYTo/edit#gid=0
Step 1: https://www.google.com/....119447550000018&z=7
Step 2: https://www.google.com/...677250654298405&z=15
Step 3: https://www.google.com/...358611350589399&z=16
Step 4: https://www.google.com/...536616305542566&z=16
Step 5: https://www.google.com/...399355140531952&z=16
Step 6: https://www.google.com/...1556307438963813&z=9


(This post was edited by windydcfc on Mar 29, 2016, 6:45 PM)


Mr. T
Chelsea Transfer Target


Mar 29, 2016, 5:30 PM

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Post #17 of 34 (5601 views)
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Re: [keneastlancs] Isthmian Premier to relegate 6 next season [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


In Reply To
but surely it would be 1 extra league at step 3 Midlands?? and 2 at step 4 midland east?? and west??


Indeed. The structure would certainly be imbalanced if a single extra division was inserted at Step 4 but adding three divisions at Steps 3 and 4, even if all divisions at these levels are reduced in size, would require at least 40 more clubs from Step 5.

If the proposal is to return Step 3 divisions to 22 clubs (which was suggested in last summer's review) then perhaps the IL has leaked this before the SL and NPL.


keneastlancs
Reserve Team Regular

Mar 29, 2016, 6:36 PM

Posts: 567
Location: Darwen Lancashire
Team(s): all non league - especially north western teams

Post #18 of 34 (5533 views)
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Re: [Mr. T] Isthmian Premier to relegate 6 next season [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


In Reply To

In Reply To
but surely it would be 1 extra league at step 3 Midlands?? and 2 at step 4 midland east?? and west??


Indeed. The structure would certainly be imbalanced if a single extra division was inserted at Step 4 but adding three divisions at Steps 3 and 4, even if all divisions at these levels are reduced in size, would require at least 40 more clubs from Step 5.

If the proposal is to return Step 3 divisions to 22 clubs (which was suggested in last summer's review) then perhaps the IL has leaked this before the SL and NPL.


I feel that you could do it with 38 teams from step 5 and reducing step 3 and 4 to 20 teams each as I proposed elsewhere:

How I would do this is go for the 1-2-4-8-16 system but reduce the number of teams in each league from level 3 down. normal promotion/relegation between level 2-3 then turn each level 3 league into 20 team leagues this leaves 12 spare teams (no relegation for 1 season from step 3) would mean 8 teams to be promoted from step 4 - I would do this by (as more northern/midland leagues needed above) 2 teams each promoted from northern div1 north and northern div 1 south - with 1 each from the other 4 step 4 leagues then teams moved into most geographically appropriate league with addition of midland premier. at step 4 then after these 8 are promoted upwards I would still relegate the bottom team from each of the 6 step 4 leagues and then reduce leagues down to 20 teams thus I would then implement a midland east and midland west therefore 38 teams would be needed from step 5 for the 2 new leagues at step 4 - I would do this bearing in mind a norther/midland bias and the fact isthmian feeders have released teams before so the 38 teams would be choses as follows - the 14 champions of the step 5 leagues. - 8 further teams at random (any finishing position) from the northern league. 3 further teams from each of NWCL, NCEL, United counties and Midland league - having finished between 2nd-6th then 1 further team from the easten counties, Hellenic, western and Wessex league - finishing 2nd or 3rd. so there would be in total 9 from NL, 4 from NWCL, NCEL, Midland, United Counties, 2 from Eastern, Hellenic, Western, Wessex then 1 from SSML, SCEL, Southern Combination, Combined Counties, Essex. then to redress these leagues at step 5 I would introduce a further northern based feeder and another midland based feeder bringing step 5 to 16 leagues each of 18 teams then step 6 I would reduce to 16 leagues of 18 teams. We would have to make all the changes at step 3 and 4 and 5 at least in 1 season for it to work


ladderman
Man City Transfer Target!

Mar 29, 2016, 9:36 PM

Posts: 7427
Location: Bishop's Stortford
Team(s): Bishop's Stortford & Cambridge United

Post #19 of 34 (5384 views)
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Re: [VP] Isthmian Premier to relegate 6 next season [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


Quote
Yeah, but journalists are on a par with MPs. The sooner they all lose their jobs the better. As a society we're getting there but there's still that hardcore of, generally, old gits who still buy papers and give these people a reason to exist.


Gee, thanks. Would you prefer nothing ever gets reported/investigated?


windydcfc
Man City Transfer Target!


Mar 29, 2016, 9:36 PM

Posts: 10532
Location: Barnetby
Team(s): Derby County FC England Borussia Mönchengladbach

Post #20 of 34 (5383 views)
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Re: [windydcfc] Isthmian Premier to relegate 6 next season [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


In Reply To

In Reply To

In Reply To

In Reply To
Forget rumours, there's too much of that on this forum in recent months.

Aren't some of the rumours just facts that are being slipped out early anyway! Some news reports are slipped out months in advance & that's how journalists work. If we just had actual facts on this forum & nothing else! We'd just end up discussing what's happened after the event!


Yeah, but journalists are on a par with MPs. The sooner they all lose their jobs the better. As a society we're getting there but there's still that hardcore of, generally, old gits who still buy papers and give these people a reason to exist.
All just my opinion of course.

Sports journalism isn't usually on a different par with news journalism. They actually want to get the real story out. What the British Sports journalists did in almost bringing down FIFA can only be applauded. I buy the NLP & FLP. Most of the scoops in the NLP have been discussed months in advance on this forum. So I only read it for the tables all in one area, the fans forum & the journalist opinion section!




Non League Projection - 2020/21: https://docs.google.com/...UTgVhKYTo/edit#gid=0
Step 1: https://www.google.com/....119447550000018&z=7
Step 2: https://www.google.com/...677250654298405&z=15
Step 3: https://www.google.com/...358611350589399&z=16
Step 4: https://www.google.com/...536616305542566&z=16
Step 5: https://www.google.com/...399355140531952&z=16
Step 6: https://www.google.com/...1556307438963813&z=9


windydcfc
Man City Transfer Target!


Mar 29, 2016, 9:38 PM

Posts: 10532
Location: Barnetby
Team(s): Derby County FC England Borussia Mönchengladbach

Post #21 of 34 (5375 views)
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Re: [windydcfc] Isthmian Premier to relegate 6 next season [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


In Reply To

In Reply To

In Reply To

In Reply To
Forget rumours, there's too much of that on this forum in recent months.

Aren't some of the rumours just facts that are being slipped out early anyway! Some news reports are slipped out months in advance & that's how journalists work. If we just had actual facts on this forum & nothing else! We'd just end up discussing what's happened after the event!


Yeah, but journalists are on a par with MPs. The sooner they all lose their jobs the better. As a society we're getting there but there's still that hardcore of, generally, old gits who still buy papers and give these people a reason to exist.
All just my opinion of course.

Sports journalism is usually on a different par than news journalism. They actually want to get the real story out. What the British Sports journalists did in almost bringing down FIFA can only be applauded. I buy the NLP & FLP. Most of the scoops in the NLP have been discussed months in advance on this forum. So I only read it for the tables all in one area, the fans forum & the journalist opinion section!




Non League Projection - 2020/21: https://docs.google.com/...UTgVhKYTo/edit#gid=0
Step 1: https://www.google.com/....119447550000018&z=7
Step 2: https://www.google.com/...677250654298405&z=15
Step 3: https://www.google.com/...358611350589399&z=16
Step 4: https://www.google.com/...536616305542566&z=16
Step 5: https://www.google.com/...399355140531952&z=16
Step 6: https://www.google.com/...1556307438963813&z=9


VP
Man City Transfer Target!


Mar 30, 2016, 3:54 PM

Posts: 10242
Location:
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Post #22 of 34 (4953 views)
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Re: [ladderman] Isthmian Premier to relegate 6 next season [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


In Reply To

Quote
Yeah, but journalists are on a par with MPs. The sooner they all lose their jobs the better. As a society we're getting there but there's still that hardcore of, generally, old gits who still buy papers and give these people a reason to exist.


Gee, thanks. Would you prefer nothing ever gets reported/investigated?


I'd rather be uniformed than ill-informed.


ladderman
Man City Transfer Target!

Mar 30, 2016, 5:46 PM

Posts: 7427
Location: Bishop's Stortford
Team(s): Bishop's Stortford & Cambridge United

Post #23 of 34 (4879 views)
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Re: [VP] Isthmian Premier to relegate 6 next season [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

Do you not have the ability to read something and decide whether you believe it?


derekn
First Team Star

Mar 30, 2016, 5:57 PM

Posts: 2333
Location: Somerset
Team(s): Taunton Town

Post #24 of 34 (4863 views)
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Re: [VP] Isthmian Premier to relegate 6 next season [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

Uniformed? Really?


dottirofhod
Man City Transfer Target!


Mar 30, 2016, 6:26 PM

Posts: 13849
Location: The North. 'Ich hassen lehm kopfs'
Team(s): Crewe Alex and obviously England.(Unlike a lot on here)

Post #25 of 34 (4829 views)
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Re: [derekn] Isthmian Premier to relegate 6 next season [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

What VP gets upto in his private life is entirely his own business.

Captain Mainwaring ?



July 1, 2019 to June 30,2020 = 111 / 94 / 17 / 4 x 0-0's. (You know my rules) @ 21 / 11 / 2019 . Belgium top 5 tiers 0-0-0-(0-1-0)-(0-1-1-2) / Holland top 4 tiers - 0-0-0-(0-0) / Lux top 2 tiers 0 -2. England top 10 tiers - 0. Now blogging at https://eccentricity.video.blog/



(This post was edited by dottirofhod on Mar 30, 2016, 6:28 PM)

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