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Home: Non-League Football Discussion: Restructuring Discussion:
Sholing appeal

 



Unicorn
Chelsea Transfer Target

Jun 15, 2015, 8:20 AM

Posts: 3884
Location: Canterbury
Team(s): Arsenal and South Eastern Football

Post #1 of 21 (6019 views)
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Sholing appeal Can't Post or Reply Privately

Did they appeal their demotion in the end.
I have not read anything.


splodge
Chelsea Transfer Target


Jun 15, 2015, 7:50 PM

Posts: 4830
Location:
Team(s): Fareham Town, Hampshire League

Post #2 of 21 (5558 views)
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Re: [Unicorn] Sholing appeal [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


In Reply To
Did they appeal their demotion in the end.
I have not read anything.


no



www.twitter.com/splodgey
www.facebook.com/paulsplodgeproctor


SholingFC
Junior Team Regular


Jun 15, 2015, 10:33 PM

Posts: 36
Location: Southampton
Team(s): Sholing FC

Post #3 of 21 (5323 views)
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Re: [splodge] Sholing appeal [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

No.

It would have been a pointless and expensive process.



www.sholingfc.co.uk


HarryC
Chelsea Transfer Target

Jun 17, 2015, 8:23 AM

Posts: 3016
Location: Fleet
Team(s): Fleet, Aldershot, Chelsea

Post #4 of 21 (4830 views)
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Re: [splodge] Sholing appeal [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

Statement on Southern League website, (dated 16/06) now advises that Sholing were NOT demoted, they had resigned !!


spitfiredave
Youth Team Regular

Jun 18, 2015, 12:16 PM

Posts: 220
Location: New Forest
Team(s): St Johnstone, Eastleigh & Hertha BSC

Post #5 of 21 (4428 views)
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Re: [HarryC] Sholing appeal [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

Perhaps an attempt to re-buy the vase!


HantsLondoner
First Team Star

Jun 18, 2015, 4:25 PM

Posts: 2807
Location: South Hampshire
Team(s): Hants/Middx/Sussex Non-League, Brentford, THFC, Eastleigh, SC Freiburg

Post #6 of 21 (4168 views)
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Re: [spitfiredave] Sholing appeal [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

This is the official Sholing explanation:

http://www.dailyecho.co.uk/sport/13341292.Sholing__We_couldn_t_flush_money_down_the_pan/



If you're going to/been to a Hampshire Premier League match, I'd really appreciate you filling in a questionnaire - available in the Groundhopping/General section, or just PM me for a copy. Thanks.

(This post was edited by HantsLondoner on Jun 18, 2015, 4:26 PM)


oftenscore6
Chelsea Transfer Target

Jun 18, 2015, 4:49 PM

Posts: 5231
Location: Saddleworth
Team(s): FCUM, MUFC, Hammarby, St Pauli, Hawthorn (AFL)

Post #7 of 21 (4121 views)
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Re: [HantsLondoner] Sholing appeal [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

I had to check the date wasn't April 1st when Mr Diaper started addressing their toilet problems....

Clear they did resign though, and as they don't intend to do the work to get the grading, presumably will not apply again.



-----------------------------------------------
Last new football ground (956) Wellington 0-2 Exmouth Town
With FC United: 134
On the agenda:
15/10 FC United v Basford United
16/10 Ashland Rovers v Underwood Villa
19/10 Atherton Collieries v FC United


SholingFC
Junior Team Regular


Jun 18, 2015, 5:55 PM

Posts: 36
Location: Southampton
Team(s): Sholing FC

Post #8 of 21 (4008 views)
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Re: [oftenscore6] Sholing appeal [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

Full Statement is here : http://sholingfc.co.uk/index.php/latest-news

What would you have done if your club was told it had passed ground grading and then a few weeks into the season, then told you had failed. And that you would have to play home games elsewhere. And that to build a new toilet block costing upwards of 10k, when you want to build (and have planning permission and some grants approved) a new clubhouse & changing rooms that would have all the toilets you could ever want to pooh in. Club will not be pushed into debt just to appease rules that we suspect are not being enforced equally across the league.

We complied with Southern League rules by tendering our resignation by end of March, or we would have faced a huge fine (up to 5,000) for not doing the ground grading work listed above. So the underlying reason for relegation, IS ground grading, originating from a mistake by a Southern League grading officer.

Sadly, we can see the comical side to all this, but it's also greatly sad that the Southern League don't want to take responsibility for their initial mistake, which could have avoided all this.

Just to add a bit more comedy/tragedy to it all, co-incidently this week, we received an invoice from the Southern League for.... 43p.



www.sholingfc.co.uk

(This post was edited by SholingFC on Jun 18, 2015, 5:57 PM)


SholingFC
Junior Team Regular


Jun 18, 2015, 6:08 PM

Posts: 36
Location: Southampton
Team(s): Sholing FC

Post #9 of 21 (3976 views)
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Re: [SholingFC] Sholing appeal [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

and another postscript, we've been informed that we have to attend the Southern League AGM this week (to sit in a room for 20 minutes) otherwise.... we'd be fined.



www.sholingfc.co.uk


chienmort
First Team Sub


Jun 18, 2015, 6:24 PM

Posts: 1088
Location: Poole
Team(s): Poole Town FC, Queens Park RANGERS.

Post #10 of 21 (3936 views)
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Re: [SholingFC] Sholing appeal [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

The reason given for the first resignation was that Sholing needed to spend money o the facilities. Many were suspicious but we could have been proved wrong, especially with the windfall of the Vase success,

The sensible action would have been to refuse promotion and then fight for promotion again when the improvememts were complete. Taking promotion whenthe improvements were incmplete or not started was foolish but you had until 31st March (almost 7 months) after promotion to get the work done for a Grade D.

Sadly Sholing are now neck and neck with Winchester in the race for the title of South Hampshire Basket Case.



Poole Town FC - les couilles du chien


Ohnonotyouagain
Junior Team Star


Jun 18, 2015, 6:24 PM

Posts: 60
Location: Zumwhere in Zumerzet
Team(s): No-one really, I just like non-league football

Post #11 of 21 (3936 views)
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Re: [SholingFC] Sholing appeal [In reply to] Can't Post or


In Reply To
Full Statement is here : http://sholingfc.co.uk/index.php/latest-news

What would you have done if your club was told it had passed ground grading and then a few weeks into the season, then told you had failed. And that you would have to play home games elsewhere. And that to build a new toilet block costing upwards of 10k, when you want to build (and have planning permission and some grants approved) a new clubhouse & changing rooms that would have all the toilets you could ever want to pooh in. Club will not be pushed into debt just to appease rules that we suspect are not being enforced equally across the league.

We complied with Southern League rules by tendering our resignation by end of March, or we would have faced a huge fine (up to 5,000) for not doing the ground grading work listed above. So the underlying reason for relegation, IS ground grading, originating from a mistake by a Southern League grading officer.

Sadly, we can see the comical side to all this, but it's also greatly sad that the Southern League don't want to take responsibility for their initial mistake, which could have avoided all this.

Just to add a bit more comedy/tragedy to it all, co-incidently this week, we received an invoice from the Southern League for.... 43p.

First of all, Sholing's club officials will know perfectly well that there was no mistake made by the Southern League (& FA) when passing the ground so that the club could be in the league last season - clubs only need a Grade E to go up BUT MUST then achieve a D Grade by the 31st March the first season at the higher level. Secondly, the grading requirements for the D Grade changed slightly a couple of seasons ago - especially regarding spectator toilet facilities - so were differnet to when Sholing were in the league before and the club's officials would have known perfectly well what was required before taking their place in the league last season.


SholingFC
Junior Team Regular


Jun 18, 2015, 7:16 PM

Posts: 36
Location: Southampton
Team(s): Sholing FC

Post #12 of 21 (3849 views)
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Re: [Ohnonotyouagain] Sholing appeal [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

Really? When the Ground Grading officer tells you point blank they are ok?

What's the point of these officers then?

Why aren't the rules being enforced equally across all clubs?



www.sholingfc.co.uk


SholingFC
Junior Team Regular


Jun 18, 2015, 7:34 PM

Posts: 36
Location: Southampton
Team(s): Sholing FC

Post #13 of 21 (3815 views)
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Re: [chienmort] Sholing appeal [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


In Reply To
The reason given for the first resignation was that Sholing needed to spend money o the facilities. Many were suspicious but we could have been proved wrong, especially with the windfall of the Vase success,

The sensible action would have been to refuse promotion and then fight for promotion again when the improvememts were complete. Taking promotion whenthe improvements were incmplete or not started was foolish but you had until 31st March (almost 7 months) after promotion to get the work done for a Grade D.

Sadly Sholing are now neck and neck with Winchester in the race for the title of South Hampshire Basket Case.


Why do you think we changed our name from VT (Vospers) to Sholing? Because Vosper Thornycroft no longer existed after being bought by Babcocks. Therefore, as a "works team" the funding for the football club (and cricket & bowls club at the sportsground) was reduced on a sliding scale until a couple of years ago, it ran out. So the club stands on the income it generates and certainly is operating on a vastly reduced budget compared to a few seasons ago when pushing for promotion to Step 3.

We've had planning permission approved for the new clubhouse, changing rooms & 3G pitch for a couple of years. That was hard, but getting funding for a 1m project is even harder. The club has no sugar daddy and although some of the Govt & FA grant bodies have been fantastic, some are much more difficult to get things put in writing. We are still working on this, the club has known for years that our clubhouse isn't up to scratch. We don't make any income on non-matchdays.

How much money do you think we made from winning the FA Vase? Do you think going to Wembley costs nothing? Staying in a hotel, suits for players & officials, buying merchandise (didn't sell it all). Plus the FA gave us nothing from the gate receipts and insisted we paid for tickets up front. The amount of "profit" wasn't very much and was simply reinvested in the club.

It was a 50/50 decision to go back up to the Southern League. We were also advised that by being at Step 4, it would speed up some of the grants for redevelopment (it didn't).

And why build a new toilet block when you want to knock down the building it's attached to and build completely new 50 yards away anyway.



www.sholingfc.co.uk


VP
Man City Transfer Target!


Jun 18, 2015, 7:51 PM

Posts: 10242
Location:
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Post #14 of 21 (3767 views)
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Re: [Ohnonotyouagain] Sholing appeal [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


In Reply To
First of all, Sholing's club officials will know perfectly well that there was no mistake made by the Southern League (& FA) when passing the ground so that the club could be in the league last season - clubs only need a Grade E to go up BUT MUST then achieve a D Grade by the 31st March the first season at the higher level. Secondly, the grading requirements for the D Grade changed slightly a couple of seasons ago - especially regarding spectator toilet facilities - so were differnet to when Sholing were in the league before and the club's officials would have known perfectly well what was required before taking their place in the league last season.


I have to disagree. Grade E and grade D have exactly the same wording in the part that deals with toilets (section 2.4) so no 'upgrade' is needed to stay at step 4.
The wording in section 2.4 in grade D from 2009 is almost identical to the wording used today.


Ohnonotyouagain
Junior Team Star


Jun 18, 2015, 8:27 PM

Posts: 60
Location: Zumwhere in Zumerzet
Team(s): No-one really, I just like non-league football

Post #15 of 21 (3717 views)
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Re: [VP] Sholing appeal [In reply to] Can't Post or


In Reply To

In Reply To
First of all, Sholing's club officials will know perfectly well that there was no mistake made by the Southern League (& FA) when passing the ground so that the club could be in the league last season - clubs only need a Grade E to go up BUT MUST then achieve a D Grade by the 31st March the first season at the higher level. Secondly, the grading requirements for the D Grade changed slightly a couple of seasons ago - especially regarding spectator toilet facilities - so were different to when Sholing were in the league before and the club's officials would have known perfectly well what was required before taking their place in the league last season.


I have to disagree. Grade E and grade D have exactly the same wording in the part that deals with toilets (section 2.4) so no 'upgrade' is needed to stay at step 4.
The wording in section 2.4 in grade D from 2009 is almost identical to the wording used today.

I bow to your superior knowledge as I must admit I haven't read the grading regulations lately (since 2013). The wording may well be the same but I think there was a change in the interpretation. One of my local clubs, Bridgwater Town, went through three grading inspections with no problem. Then, a couple of seasons ago, they were told their toilet facilities weren't up to scratch as The FA no longer allow toilets which can be accessed from the clubhouse to be counted as spectator toilets. So Bridgwater simply lock the door from the bar to the toilets on match days (if they remember) and make everyone use the outside access door.


wazzafan
First Team Sub

Jun 18, 2015, 9:06 PM

Posts: 980
Location: Warrington
Team(s): Warrington Town

Post #16 of 21 (3667 views)
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Re: [Ohnonotyouagain] Sholing appeal [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

There's definitely been some change to the ruling (or interpretation of it) recently. Ourselves at Warrington put in a new toilet block last summer. I believe we only had 1 single toilet for female spectators prior to the new block. The increase in signage (exit, toilets etc...) around the ground as well is another recent inprovement that we were told needed to be done. I can't imagine after being at step 4 for 10 years that these works are not due to some recent enforcement.

Have to say the Toilet block definitely came in handy when Exeter came to Town. Would not have been a pretty sight otherwise...



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VP
Man City Transfer Target!


Jun 19, 2015, 9:58 AM

Posts: 10242
Location:
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Post #17 of 21 (3409 views)
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Re: [wazzafan] Sholing appeal [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

We had to install an outside toilet block a few years years ago when we first applied for step 4 to get around the part about the toilets not being accessible through licenced premises. As anyone who's been to our ground probably knows, the toilets inside the clubhouse are accessible from outside without going through the bar area but this wasn't deemed separate enough so we've had the current interpretation from both Isthmian & Southern League graders since 2009.
It sums up the issue with gradings - too many things that can be interpreted different ways.


(This post was edited by VP on Jun 19, 2015, 10:04 AM)


SholingFC
Junior Team Regular


Jun 19, 2015, 10:22 AM

Posts: 36
Location: Southampton
Team(s): Sholing FC

Post #18 of 21 (3378 views)
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Re: [VP] Sholing appeal [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


In Reply To
We had to install an outside toilet block a few years years ago when we first applied for step 4 to get around the part about the toilets not being accessible through licenced premises. As anyone who's been to our ground probably knows, the toilets inside the clubhouse are accessible from outside without going through the bar area but this wasn't deemed separate enough so we've had the current interpretation from both Isthmian & Southern League graders since 2009.
It sums up the issue with gradings - too many things that can be interpreted different ways.


Perhaps the FA should have full time regional Ground Graders. So they all sing from the same hymn sheet, they are not connected to any specific leagues and they can be the go to point for clubs wanting advice on grading and how to get grants etc.

There certainly seems enough work for them to do. One per county might be too much, but certainly one for south west, south central, south east, thames valley, london north & south etc etc. Would be a useful investment by the FA and perhaps stop all this confusion.

I know, the FA Premier League could pay for them out of their PROMISED donation to grassroots for the new TV deal *holds breath*



www.sholingfc.co.uk


VP
Man City Transfer Target!


Jun 19, 2015, 10:31 AM

Posts: 10242
Location:
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Post #19 of 21 (3366 views)
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Re: [SholingFC] Sholing appeal [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


In Reply To
Perhaps the FA should have full time regional Ground Graders. So they all sing from the same hymn sheet, they are not connected to any specific leagues and they can be the go to point for clubs wanting advice on grading and how to get grants etc.

There certainly seems enough work for them to do. One per county might be too much, but certainly one for south west, south central, south east, thames valley, london north & south etc etc. Would be a useful investment by the FA and perhaps stop all this confusion.

I know, the FA Premier League could pay for them out of their PROMISED donation to grassroots for the new TV deal *holds breath*


That's a good idea.


SholingFC
Junior Team Regular


Jun 19, 2015, 12:59 PM

Posts: 36
Location: Southampton
Team(s): Sholing FC

Post #20 of 21 (3235 views)
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Re: [VP] Sholing appeal [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


In Reply To
That's a good idea.


Which is why it has a zero chance of happening in football



www.sholingfc.co.uk


Unicorn
Chelsea Transfer Target

Jun 19, 2015, 1:17 PM

Posts: 3884
Location: Canterbury
Team(s): Arsenal and South Eastern Football

Post #21 of 21 (3201 views)
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Re: [VP] Sholing appeal [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

When the Premier league talk about grass roots football they think you mean clubs like Charlton or Bolton.

 
 


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