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Celtic reinstated in Champions League

 

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chris41
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Aug 8, 2014, 10:53 AM

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Celtic reinstated in Champions League Can't Post or Reply Privately

Looks like Legia used an ineligible player

http://www.bbc.co.uk/.../0/football/28701951


kirby knitters
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Aug 8, 2014, 11:02 AM

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Re: [chris41] Celtic reinstated in Champions League [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

Its bad enough this sort of thing happening in the the FAV but the CL!!.The clown who made this error has potentially cost Legia millions.


eesti7
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Aug 8, 2014, 11:21 AM

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Re: [kirby knitters] Celtic reinstated in Champions League [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

Clearly Legia are at fault but it does appear an honest mistake. There was no benefit to be gained from specifically bringing on that player with Legia ahead 6-1 on aggregate and only two minutes of the tie remaining.

Another page on the BBC web-site contains this, which suggests Legia have strong grounds for an appeal...


However, in 2010, Uefa fined Debrecen 15,000 but rejected a protest from opponents Litex Lovech, who wanted the Hungarian side kicked out of the tournament for fielding an ineligible player.
Debrecen argued that they fielded Peter Mate in good faith as a substitute in Bulgaria when they were leading 4-1 on aggregate.
Uefa ruled that Debrecen had "no interest in fielding this player for the three last minutes of additional time, when the score was so clearly in its favour".


(This post was edited by eesti7 on Aug 8, 2014, 11:22 AM)


kirby knitters
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Re: [eesti7] Celtic reinstated in Champions League [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

So this may have abit to run yet but with the draw today it's understandable why UEFA acted with the haste they did.


eesti7
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Re: [kirby knitters] Celtic reinstated in Champions League [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


In Reply To
it's understandable why UEFA acted with the haste they did.


The conspiracy theorists will not doubt suggest that a dislike of Legia Warsaw, specifically their fans, is behind this. Given the precedent set with Debrecen in 2010 they may have a point.


paulh66
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Re: [kirby knitters] Celtic reinstated in Champions League [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

On the face of it the Debrecen case is a compelling precedent. Hard to believe, though, that UEFA have not already considered that when dealing with Legia. Maybe the rules have changed since 2010, so a 3-0 defeat is now the fixed penalty?


Wheelbarrow
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Aug 8, 2014, 11:38 AM

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Re: [eesti7] Celtic reinstated in Champions League [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


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Given the precedent set with Debrecen in 2010 they may have a point.


Unless UEFA took action after 2010 to tighten up on this and make everything cut and dried to prevent anything dragging on beyond following rounds etc? I'm assuming that the suspension was indeed communicated to Legia in the normal channels and it's been an oversight by the club.

(Paul types faster than I do!!)


(This post was edited by Wheelbarrow on Aug 8, 2014, 11:39 AM)


Fanatic
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Aug 8, 2014, 12:20 PM

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Re: [Wheelbarrow] Celtic reinstated in Champions League [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

It does seem a ridiculous over-reaction to award a 3-0 loss over a player who played a few minutes at the end of a match when they were leading 2-0, and even more so given the context of what the award does to an aggregate 6-1 victory.

Hopefully Legia will win their appeal.


(This post was edited by Fanatic on Aug 8, 2014, 12:20 PM)


paulh66
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Re: [Fanatic] Celtic reinstated in Champions League [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

Seems the suspended guy should have been named in their squad in the earlier round for his suspension to have counted against those games. The effect of not naming him in these squads meant that Legia were selecting their team from a bigger pool of players than they should have been. This means they've carried a slightly unfair advantage through a couple of matches.

Because of this, even though I still think throwing them out is harsh, I'd be very, very surprised if any appeal they make will succeed.


(This post was edited by paulh66 on Aug 8, 2014, 1:02 PM)


sandhurstbee
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Re: [paulh66] Celtic reinstated in Champions League [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

Ridiculous decision. Why would Legia have named the player in their squad if he was suspended and couldn`t play?



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chris41
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Re: [paulh66] Celtic reinstated in Champions League [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

So in effect St Patricks Athletic in the previous round were disadvantaged more than Celtic. Everything adds up to an honest mistake being made so interesting to see how this one develops.


swjoduk
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Aug 8, 2014, 1:33 PM

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Re: [sandhurstbee] Celtic reinstated in Champions League [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

Exactly the point I would wonder, surely the fact Legia played those games counts towards serving the ban if he is a registered player with them.

I can't see this happening is another competition


paulh66
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Re: [swjoduk] Celtic reinstated in Champions League [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

surely the fact Legia played those games counts towards serving the ban if he is a registered player with them.


Pretty sure that clubs have to name a squad for the CL competition - certainly in the group stages. So simply being registered with a club does not automatically mean a player can be available for selection in the CL. This'll be why Legia have had an unfair advantage in the games to date, even though you could still argue the advantage gained was less than the punishment given out. But that can't be proven, which is why I think the punishment of expulsion will stand.


mip
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Ridiculous decision. Why would Legia have named the player in their squad if he was suspended and couldn`t play?


Because apparently the rules say they have to. Other clubs manage to do it right.

I have every sympathy for Legia and the penalty is indeed harsh but it beggars belief completely that a club plays in the Champions League and don't know the rules of the competition.


cope1
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Re: [paulh66] Celtic reinstated in Champions League [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

I don't understand why they gained an advantage at all in earlier rounds. Surely they weren't picking from a bigger pool as the player concerned would not have been available, unless I'm missing something.

I agree the punishment was harsh, but quite a standard one for that type of thing. It seems the Debrecen decision was a brief glimpse of an ideal world...


mip
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I don't understand why they gained an advantage at all in earlier rounds. Surely they weren't picking from a bigger pool as the player concerned would not have been available, unless I'm missing something.

I agree the punishment was harsh, but quite a standard one for that type of thing. It seems the Debrecen decision was a brief glimpse of an ideal world...


They are naming a 25 man squad (I think) for matches. If the suspended player had been included they'd only have had 24 players to choose from for the game instead of 25. An advantage albeit a very minor advantage.


swjoduk
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Aug 8, 2014, 4:48 PM

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Re: [mip] Celtic reinstated in Champions League [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

So why not reinstate St Patricks too as they suffered over both legs.

Replay the round 3rd round tie between St Pats and Celtic.

I think that would be the fairest option if Legia remain expelled.


non-league fan
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Re: [mip] Celtic reinstated in Champions League [In reply to] Can't Post or

And let us spare a thought for any unfortunate groundhoppers who saw the Celtic v. Legia match and can't include it in their records because the result is null and void! Doing a revisit would not be a problem with 99% of grounds - except, of course, in this case Murrayfield may well never stage another soccer match within the lifetime of any of those groundhoppers....sad isn't it?

(Edit; not sure if Celtic's return to Parkhead will have taken place by the time their next European tie is played?)


(This post was edited by non-league fan on Aug 8, 2014, 4:54 PM)


paulh66
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So why not reinstate St Patricks too as they suffered over both legs.

Replay the round 3rd round tie between St Pats and Celtic.

I think that would be the fairest option if Legia remain expelled.


That would be rewarding two teams when only one team has really been disadvantaged. The suspended player wasn't in the squad for the St Pats game so no offence was committed then. It only becomes a retrospective argument if Legia insist that he served his suspension by missing the St Pats game - an argument which inherently means St Pats would have a case, but an argument which also now seems invalid, given the competition rules.

In short, I think Legia are stuffed! There's no argument they can use in their defence that hasn't meant some kind of an advantage - however small - has been gained over one (but not both) of the teams they've played.


(This post was edited by paulh66 on Aug 8, 2014, 5:10 PM)


mip
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And let us spare a thought for any unfortunate groundhoppers who saw the Celtic v. Legia match and can't include it in their records because the result is null and void! Doing a revisit would not be a problem with 99% of grounds - except, of course, in this case Murrayfield may well never stage another soccer match within the lifetime of any of those groundhoppers....sad isn't it?

(Edit; not sure if Celtic's return to Parkhead will have taken place by the time their next European tie is played?)


I think the play off game is at Parkhead.

And thanks for your concern but Murrayfield will remain a "tick" for me and I'm losing no sleep over that Smile.


noprogs
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Re: [Fanatic] Celtic reinstated in Champions League [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


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It does seem a ridiculous over-reaction to award a 3-0 loss over a player who played a few minutes at the end of a match when they were leading 2-0, and even more so given the context of what the award does to an aggregate 6-1 victory.

Hopefully Legia will win their appeal.

________________________________________

or hopefully Maribor stuff Celtic (not that I need this incentive anyway..)





cope1
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Re: [noprogs] Celtic reinstated in Champions League [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

OK, now I've read a bit more I think it's a complete farce.

A player is suspended, so you don't pick him. By not picking him, he fails to serve his suspension. After 3 missed matches, he is then named to play, and plays, thus costing his team the tie.

Why the hell does these things get anywhere near happening? Why, in 2014, can these things not be sorted out before the match? Surely to god if you can have your team checked for eligibility for the FA Inter-League Cup then it can be done for the Champions League?


cope1
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Re: [cope1] Celtic reinstated in Champions League [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

Incidentally, Legia aside, this gives some form of justice to Celtic who, having reached the last 16 last season, should never have been required to play in the 3rd Qualifying Round in the first place. I don't object to the coefficient system - I think it's as good as any - but I do think more credit should be given to a team's performance when determining its entry point the following season.


eesti7
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Re: [cope1] Celtic reinstated in Champions League [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

Although it could be argued that getting dicked 6-1 on aggregate by an unremarkable club like Legia Warsaw shows that they shouldn't be allowed anywhere near the group stage.


sandhurstbee
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Re: [eesti7] Celtic reinstated in Champions League [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

I bet Legia are regretting missing those 2 Penalties in the First Leg now or would UEFA awarded the 2nd leg 5-0 to make sure Celtic got through.



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