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Home: Non-League Football Discussion: Restructuring Discussion:
Thinking outside the box - A structure

 

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cope1
Man City Transfer Target!

Apr 7, 2014, 10:13 AM

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Post #26 of 42 (2542 views)
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Re: [windydcfc] Thinking outside the box - A structure [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

Yep. These conversations go round and round and there are plenty of sensible ideas. The problem is not that it's difficult to come up with a workable structure, it's that self-interest will prevent change. As noted, the League 2 clubs are not about to vote to halve their money by merging with the Conference, even if it would create a better structure, and who would blame them? Step 4 clubs insist on a protectionist 2-down when 4-down would be much fairer so despite the glaring issue of teams at step 5 being able to win their league and still not get promoted, 2-down remains.


(This post was edited by cope1 on Apr 7, 2014, 10:16 AM)


windydcfc
Man City Transfer Target!


Apr 7, 2014, 10:23 AM

Posts: 10474
Location: Barnetby
Team(s): Derby County FC England Borussia Mönchengladbach

Post #27 of 42 (2535 views)
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Re: [cope1] Thinking outside the box - A structure [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

The old structure was Div1 & Div2 merged...



Non League Projection - 2020/21: https://docs.google.com/...UTgVhKYTo/edit#gid=0
Step 1: https://www.google.com/....119447550000018&z=7
Step 2: https://www.google.com/...677250654298405&z=15
Step 3: https://www.google.com/...358611350589399&z=16
Step 4: https://www.google.com/...536616305542566&z=16
Step 5: https://www.google.com/...399355140531952&z=16
Step 6: https://www.google.com/...1556307438963813&z=9


cope1
Man City Transfer Target!

Apr 7, 2014, 11:32 AM

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Post #28 of 42 (2514 views)
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Re: [windydcfc] Thinking outside the box - A structure [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

You what?


windydcfc
Man City Transfer Target!


Apr 7, 2014, 11:43 AM

Posts: 10474
Location: Barnetby
Team(s): Derby County FC England Borussia Mönchengladbach

Post #29 of 42 (2506 views)
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Re: [cope1] Thinking outside the box - A structure [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

I think you need to look at some old football league structure from the 1950s. It went Div1 which is the Prem now, Div2 which is the Championship now & Div3N/Div3S which is Div1 & Div2 now. So if we went back to the old structure, they wouldn't merge Div2 with the Conference, it would be the step above that..



Non League Projection - 2020/21: https://docs.google.com/...UTgVhKYTo/edit#gid=0
Step 1: https://www.google.com/....119447550000018&z=7
Step 2: https://www.google.com/...677250654298405&z=15
Step 3: https://www.google.com/...358611350589399&z=16
Step 4: https://www.google.com/...536616305542566&z=16
Step 5: https://www.google.com/...399355140531952&z=16
Step 6: https://www.google.com/...1556307438963813&z=9


(This post was edited by windydcfc on Apr 7, 2014, 11:44 AM)


cope1
Man City Transfer Target!

Apr 7, 2014, 11:51 AM

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Post #30 of 42 (2499 views)
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Re: [windydcfc] Thinking outside the box - A structure [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

I said 'League 2', not 'Div 2'. The proposal which has been made many times on here is to merge League 2 (formerly Division 3 and, before that, Division 4) with the Conference (National Division). I know what the structure was up to 1958 I can assure you - I am serious statto!


(This post was edited by cope1 on Apr 7, 2014, 11:52 AM)


windydcfc
Man City Transfer Target!


Apr 7, 2014, 11:56 AM

Posts: 10474
Location: Barnetby
Team(s): Derby County FC England Borussia Mönchengladbach

Post #31 of 42 (2492 views)
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Re: [cope1] Thinking outside the box - A structure [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

Whatever structure is talked about, or merged, or whatever. It won't happen, my point was that certain people have been shot down for bringing it up, I have never brought it up though.



Non League Projection - 2020/21: https://docs.google.com/...UTgVhKYTo/edit#gid=0
Step 1: https://www.google.com/....119447550000018&z=7
Step 2: https://www.google.com/...677250654298405&z=15
Step 3: https://www.google.com/...358611350589399&z=16
Step 4: https://www.google.com/...536616305542566&z=16
Step 5: https://www.google.com/...399355140531952&z=16
Step 6: https://www.google.com/...1556307438963813&z=9


cope1
Man City Transfer Target!

Apr 7, 2014, 12:17 PM

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Post #32 of 42 (2481 views)
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Re: [windydcfc] Thinking outside the box - A structure [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

Well OK, I was just pointing out that I did mean what I said, and I wasn't confusing the issue.

Either way yes, there are people who get impatient when they feel they've been through the discussion before and they try and stop people having it again. Of course, unless we close the forum to new members, such discussions will happen again because new members won't have been through it the first time.

I have experienced this sort of thing at AFA Council meetings in the past. Ask a question about why we don't try XYZ to solve a problem and there will doubtless be someone sighing audibly before telling you that was tried in 1998 and didn't work, etc etc. My response is to say that (a) it is no longer 1998 and (b) if I am forbidden to make suggestions on subjects which have been discussed in the past, I might as well not bother turning up. Fortunately, most people on Council are a bit more tolerant and willing to hear new ideas, even if they have been discussed in the past.

The other common retort is that it's pointless to discuss these things because nothing will change. Of course, if we lived by that then none of us would have anything to talk about and this forum would die a speedy death!
Tongue


windydcfc
Man City Transfer Target!


Apr 7, 2014, 12:51 PM

Posts: 10474
Location: Barnetby
Team(s): Derby County FC England Borussia Mönchengladbach

Post #33 of 42 (2467 views)
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Re: [cope1] Thinking outside the box - A structure [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

Well said, I totally agree. Just because things have been spoken/written about 100 times before, it doesn't mean it's wrong or even right. I believe in pure democracy and know it will never happen. If you read some of my posts, I go against the grain on a few subjects, but if we were all the same it would be a bloody boring forum.



Non League Projection - 2020/21: https://docs.google.com/...UTgVhKYTo/edit#gid=0
Step 1: https://www.google.com/....119447550000018&z=7
Step 2: https://www.google.com/...677250654298405&z=15
Step 3: https://www.google.com/...358611350589399&z=16
Step 4: https://www.google.com/...536616305542566&z=16
Step 5: https://www.google.com/...399355140531952&z=16
Step 6: https://www.google.com/...1556307438963813&z=9


Mr. T
Chelsea Transfer Target


Apr 7, 2014, 12:58 PM

Posts: 5371
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Post #34 of 42 (2462 views)
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Re: [windydcfc] Thinking outside the box - A structure [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


In Reply To
I think you need to look at some old football league structure from the 1950s...


Shocked Talking to Cope1 like this is akin to cornering Einstein and suggest he reads up on the General Theory of Relativity...


windydcfc
Man City Transfer Target!


Apr 7, 2014, 1:03 PM

Posts: 10474
Location: Barnetby
Team(s): Derby County FC England Borussia Mönchengladbach

Post #35 of 42 (2457 views)
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Re: [Mr. T] Thinking outside the box - A structure [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

Unless you actually know someone, then you aren't sure of their knowledge. I didn't initially get the div2 league2 thing but never mind. Einstein was full of shit anyway, I believe in Mr Ploppy from BlackadderWinkWinkWink



Non League Projection - 2020/21: https://docs.google.com/...UTgVhKYTo/edit#gid=0
Step 1: https://www.google.com/....119447550000018&z=7
Step 2: https://www.google.com/...677250654298405&z=15
Step 3: https://www.google.com/...358611350589399&z=16
Step 4: https://www.google.com/...536616305542566&z=16
Step 5: https://www.google.com/...399355140531952&z=16
Step 6: https://www.google.com/...1556307438963813&z=9


cope1
Man City Transfer Target!

Apr 7, 2014, 2:12 PM

Posts: 7281
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Post #36 of 42 (2421 views)
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Re: [Mr. T] Thinking outside the box - A structure [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


In Reply To

In Reply To
I think you need to look at some old football league structure from the 1950s...


Shocked Talking to Cope1 like this is akin to cornering Einstein and suggest he reads up on the General Theory of Relativity...

Ha - I'm gonna print that one out and stick on the wall!

Cool


cope1
Man City Transfer Target!

Apr 7, 2014, 2:14 PM

Posts: 7281
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Post #37 of 42 (2419 views)
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Re: [windydcfc] Thinking outside the box - A structure [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


In Reply To
I didn't initially get the div2 league2 thing but never mind. WinkWinkWink

I think we are on the same wave length so it doesn't really matter, but I was stressing that I meant the current 'League 2' as opposed to anything which has been known as 'Division 2' as League 2 corresponds to Division 3 or 4 from the past but not 2, this being the best thing about the Football League these days - it's simplicity...Crazy


windydcfc
Man City Transfer Target!


Apr 7, 2014, 2:22 PM

Posts: 10474
Location: Barnetby
Team(s): Derby County FC England Borussia Mönchengladbach

Post #38 of 42 (2413 views)
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Re: [cope1] Thinking outside the box - A structure [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

It was my "Simple Jack" from Tropic Thunder moment. You ma ma make me ha ha happyCrazyCrazyCrazy



Non League Projection - 2020/21: https://docs.google.com/...UTgVhKYTo/edit#gid=0
Step 1: https://www.google.com/....119447550000018&z=7
Step 2: https://www.google.com/...677250654298405&z=15
Step 3: https://www.google.com/...358611350589399&z=16
Step 4: https://www.google.com/...536616305542566&z=16
Step 5: https://www.google.com/...399355140531952&z=16
Step 6: https://www.google.com/...1556307438963813&z=9


cope1
Man City Transfer Target!

Apr 7, 2014, 2:30 PM

Posts: 7281
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Post #39 of 42 (2406 views)
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Re: [windydcfc] Thinking outside the box - A structure [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


In Reply To
Well said, I totally agree. Just because things have been spoken/written about 100 times before, it doesn't mean it's wrong or even right. I believe in pure democracy and know it will never happen. If you read some of my posts, I go against the grain on a few subjects, but if we were all the same it would be a bloody boring forum.

It's quite similar to discussions which take place at club and league level I find. I have been involved in football administration for 19 of my 37 years and so I know a fair bit about it. If someone new suggests something we've done before but which hasn't worked I try to explain why it didn't work so that the person suggesting it can use that information to develop the idea if they so choose. This is what I used to do when I was younger. I would listen to what the 'old gits' told me and then find ways of working around the problems. Unfortunately, there are a plenty of people who make suggestions which, from my point of view, are quite obviously based on very little knowledge and, if I say they won't work, they haven't got the patience to rework their ideas, they just accuse me of being a stuffed shirt, which is very irritating. Someone did this not too long ago by proposing a regionalisation plan for my league which would, I calculated, increase travel across the league by almost 40% so it clearly wasn't workable (the suggestion was clearly based on his own team's best interests only). When I explained this I got a short, sarcastic response and nothing else. Nice!


windydcfc
Man City Transfer Target!


Apr 7, 2014, 2:36 PM

Posts: 10474
Location: Barnetby
Team(s): Derby County FC England Borussia Mönchengladbach

Post #40 of 42 (2400 views)
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Re: [cope1] Thinking outside the box - A structure [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

At least you get a response, I get bush weed most of the time Unsure



Non League Projection - 2020/21: https://docs.google.com/...UTgVhKYTo/edit#gid=0
Step 1: https://www.google.com/....119447550000018&z=7
Step 2: https://www.google.com/...677250654298405&z=15
Step 3: https://www.google.com/...358611350589399&z=16
Step 4: https://www.google.com/...536616305542566&z=16
Step 5: https://www.google.com/...399355140531952&z=16
Step 6: https://www.google.com/...1556307438963813&z=9


Mr. T
Chelsea Transfer Target


Apr 7, 2014, 2:42 PM

Posts: 5371
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Post #41 of 42 (2396 views)
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Re: [cope1] Thinking outside the box - A structure [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


In Reply To

In Reply To

In Reply To
I think you need to look at some old football league structure from the 1950s...


Shocked Talking to Cope1 like this is akin to cornering Einstein and suggest he reads up on the General Theory of Relativity...

Ha - I'm gonna print that one out and stick on the wall!

Cool


Blush Correct my grammar before you do so...


cope1
Man City Transfer Target!

Apr 7, 2014, 7:49 PM

Posts: 7281
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Post #42 of 42 (2323 views)
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Re: [windydcfc] Thinking outside the box - A structure [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


In Reply To
At least you get a response, I get bush weed most of the time Unsure

Oh don't get me wrong, that's the same for me a lot of the time. Actually, I've had someone come forward today offering to help the league with stuff like graphics and web design. This'll be a challenge for me. For the last 13 years - since I set it up - I have had free reign over the website to the extent that I sometimes wonder if anyone even looks at it - and now I might have to let someone else do stuff to it!!! Hmmm...

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