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Home: All Other Football Interests: Premier League & Football League:
Roman Abramovich a pioneer - Frank Arnesen

 



cope1
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Jun 18, 2013, 8:40 PM

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Roman Abramovich a pioneer - Frank Arnesen Can't Post or Reply Privately

Arggghhhhh!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/22944070

So being a pioneer means spending money which most people don't have, distorting the playing field so actual ability in running a football club becomes meaningless.

Nothing new of course, just pisses me off...


UKPunk
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Jun 18, 2013, 10:41 PM

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Re: [cope1] Roman Abramovich a pioneer - Frank Arnesen [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

In my opinion Abramovich is only here to use english football as a way of laundering his dirty money. I can't prove this to be the case and have no evidence to support that view, nevertheless I believe it to be true. In that sense I suppose he is a pioneer, but not one with any credit.



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buncranaboy
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Jun 18, 2013, 10:47 PM

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Re: [UKPunk] Roman Abramovich a pioneer - Frank Arnesen [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

In Ireland a Pioneer is an avowed non-drinker, usually one who has come within a whisker of drinking themselves to death and who has now become a pious sanctimonious patronising miserable old bastard.
In Scotland, I believe the term is Presbyterian.

I don't believe Roman Abramovich to be either of the above but stand to be corrected.


HantsLondoner
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Jun 18, 2013, 10:52 PM

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Re: [cope1] Roman Abramovich a pioneer - Frank Arnesen [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

This is good coming from a man (Arnesen) who was prised away from doing a good job at Tottenham by some illegal poaching, and of course lots of money, by Abramovitch.

He then brought to Chelsea such 'talents' as Malouda, Mikel and Kalou, so he wasn't that good after all. A fact Jose Mourinho recognised when he got rid of him.

He then did a stunningly average job at Hamburger SV and brought in some Chelsea 'talents' like Mancienne and Bruma. The former was one of the worst players in the Bundesliga last season. And now he's left them too.

Shame, because he was a decent player and discovered lots of talent in his first job at PSV Eindhoven.

But that's what happens when you work with a pioneer..... who certainly has transformed football in his decade at the club, as Arnesen says. Whether the transformation is a good one, I'll leave you all to judge.



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HantsLondoner
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Jun 18, 2013, 10:55 PM

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Re: [buncranaboy] Roman Abramovich a pioneer - Frank Arnesen [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

In Eastern Europe a Pioneer used to be a Communist Scout.

They used to run miniature railways in places like Budapest Wink

Not sure Abramovitch would like to be called a Pioneer....



If you're going to/been to a Hampshire Premier League match, I'd really appreciate you filling in a questionnaire - available in the Groundhopping/General section, or just PM me for a copy. Thanks.


cope1
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Jun 18, 2013, 11:41 PM

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Re: [HantsLondoner] Roman Abramovich a pioneer - Frank Arnesen [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

He's certainly led the way, from running football on football-based income to just bunging in as much cash as you can get your hands on to make it like a computer game.

One of the reasons I don't have much issue with Spurs (I'm a Gooner) is that they run on their own funds. It would be galling to lose to them, of course, but at least it would be losing to a proper club!


HantsLondoner
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Jun 19, 2013, 8:29 AM

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Re: [cope1] Roman Abramovich a pioneer - Frank Arnesen [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

Indeed. As a Tottenham fan I've come to dislike Chelsea much more than Arsenal in all the time I've been watching football.

But since I started with Spurs with the 1967 FA Cup final then I suppose that's only logical.... mind you, Arsenal in the 70s were pretty dislikeable Wink

As you say, if we're talking football, and funding, then at least we're both going about it in a better way.



If you're going to/been to a Hampshire Premier League match, I'd really appreciate you filling in a questionnaire - available in the Groundhopping/General section, or just PM me for a copy. Thanks.


kirby knitters
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Jun 19, 2013, 10:51 AM

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Re: [HantsLondoner] Roman Abramovich a pioneer - Frank Arnesen [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

Love him or loath him people like Abramovich are here in the English game for the long haul.I dont like what they are doing but in defence of the Russian at least he is a football man(Chelsea had finished in a CL place before he arrived so they were not a bad side)id take him over people from SE Asia or the USA anytime if forced to choose.....As for the ridiculous washing cash allegations from a previous poster,i suggest you take your concerns to the relevant authorities.


Richard Rundle
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Jun 19, 2013, 12:29 PM

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Re: [kirby knitters] Roman Abramovich a pioneer - Frank Arnesen [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

How do you judge whether someone is "a football man" or not?


kirby knitters
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Jun 19, 2013, 12:37 PM

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Re: [Richard Rundle] Roman Abramovich a pioneer - Frank Arnesen [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


In Reply To
How do you judge whether someone is "a football man" or not?

Whether the person concerned has any knowledge of the game...Not long after his takeover i heard a rare interview with Abramovich and he certainly came across as someone who knew what he was talking about.


leohoenig
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Jun 19, 2013, 5:48 PM

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Re: [kirby knitters] Roman Abramovich a pioneer - Frank Arnesen [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

Abramovic is a pioneer. Others have put money into football clubs, but this is the first time (at least in recent years) that someone has put so much in, they have changed the competitive balance of the League. This is more than what has been seen in the past at clubs such as Blackburn or Wolverhampton, because it is on a far grander scale. In doing so, Abramovich has paved the way for Mansour at Manchester City, and other foreign owners who have money to burn. For those that want to run clubs as profit generators, (such as the Glazers at Manchester United), the requirement to remain competitive has meant that their returns are less than they might like. Other clubs are failing to keep up, and hence being denied a share of the Champions League's spoils.

Of course, the Champions League itself unbalances football competition as well. By vastly increasing the comparative income of a small number of clubs, it gives them an advantage in trying to keep their noses at the trough. There is something of a contradiction in UEFA fair play regulations that try to reduce the influence of Abramovic and Mansour when they themselves are skewing the balance in just the way they want other people to avoid.

However, there has to be a better way to try and maintain competition than to penalise people who want to spend vast quantities of money on their favourite clubs. How many of the writers on here dream of winning the lottery and using some of the proceeds to improve the lot of their favourite club?

If I understand correctly, the MLS has a system where teams can pay over the salary cap on marque players, but then have to pay a penalty which can be distributed to the other franchises. I think that we could do with an internal tax system on our football, where a percentage oof either income, or the total wage bill of each club is taken as tax, and then distributed evenly between the clubs.

The one thing that must be stopped, is the practise of club owners loaning unsustainable amounts of money to their clubs. This always leads to disaster, as the news from Hearts this week has again shown.



Fat AND Pompous.
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Now blogging at http://www.leohoenig.com



cope1
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Jun 20, 2013, 12:02 PM

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Re: [leohoenig] Roman Abramovich a pioneer - Frank Arnesen [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

My understanding of FFP is that it's intended to prevent clubs sinking into debt. If your benefactor is kind enough to 'give' you the money, you're laughing. I stand to be corrected however.

As for Abramovich being a pioneer, you're right that he pioneered the practice of mass-investment in football. I liken this to the first kid who went round blowing his classmates to bits being a pioneer - not one that will be celebrated. I'm not suggesting mass-investment in football is like killing people, simply that being first to do something doesn't make someone worthy of being celebrated in the way Arnesen is apparently celebrating Abramovich.

It shows a completely different view of football to my own. There are many like Arnesen - those how believe football needs investment. I agree with that at grassroots level or in places where there is pitifully little money but not in the Premier League. Any problems the Premier League has are not down to a lack of investment, quite the opposite.

I'm not naive enough to think that investment in football by rich owners is anything new. It's been going on since football began. However, what Abramovich has done is raise the steaks tenfold. Where before, with investers on the scale of Jack Walker, it could give your club the edge they wanted in attracting the best players, now it can more or less buy trophies. Although Blackburn bought players they would not have been able to before Walker's investment, they were still not guaranteed success. Clubs have spent more than they did without managing to secure trophies. Now the levels of investment are so big that even well run 'big' clubs (like Spurs and Arsenal) struggle to compete. I watch Arsenal qualifying for the Champions League in the same frame of mind as someone watching their team avoid relegation. If we don't get in, we've got no chance. Even if we do, it's only so we can keep hold of Man City's coat tails.

Like I say, I know outside investment is nothing new and it's certainly not going to go away now, but I think it is sad. Most of my interest in football is well away from the top echelons as I find amateur and semi-pro football far more interesting. If only I had not asked my dad, at the age of 8, who I 'supported' (having lived in the US since I was 5 I didn't actually know what the word meant - they don't call it that over there) I'd be able to ignore the whole shebang!


rainjar
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Jul 2, 2013, 12:50 PM

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Re: [cope1] Roman Abramovich a pioneer - Frank Arnesen [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GmCtci6cen8



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(This post was edited by rainjar on Jul 2, 2013, 12:50 PM)

 
 


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