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Hillsbrough, police say its too late to claim

 



Isaac
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May 22, 2013, 1:55 PM

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Hillsbrough, police say its too late to claim Can't Post or Reply Privately

http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/...ors-too-late-4000101

I find this claim quite staggering when the police are happy to arrest people for crimes that allegedly happened many decades ago


garethwrexy
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May 22, 2013, 6:30 PM

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Re: [Isaac] Hillsbrough, police say its too late to claim [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

got a bad feeling south yorkshire wont face any action over what happend,

fear for them if sheffield wednesday draw liverpool in the fa cup next season as fans could vent there anger onto the police at the match.



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Chris1963
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May 22, 2013, 10:53 PM

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Re: [garethwrexy] Hillsbrough, police say its too late to claim [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

I can understand why the bereaved are so upset, but making the police scapegoats for what was nothing more than a tragic accident isn't going to help. There has already been a private prosecution, which failed.
What the campaigners won't admit is that it is plainly obvious that while the police may have made mistakes (which can be attributed to the inevitable chaos on the day of the disaster) they never intended to cause harm to the Liverpool fans.


jon b
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May 23, 2013, 12:44 AM

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Re: [Chris1963] Hillsbrough, police say its too late to claim [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

What's utterly unforgiveable is the cowardly cover-up.


Chris1963
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May 23, 2013, 12:58 AM

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Re: [jon b] Hillsbrough, police say its too late to claim [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

I would concede that there appears to have been a cover-up, but it would have been the result of incompetence rather than malice. Since no-one did anything at the match to knowingly harm anyone, we have to give the benefit of the doubt. Much of the cover-up seems to have originated in the fact that police were copying other people's statements, a practice that was common in the days when police had tons of paperwork to get through without the benefit of the computers that are in use today.


Matty
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May 23, 2013, 11:20 AM

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Re: [Chris1963] Hillsbrough, police say its too late to claim [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


In Reply To
I can understand why the bereaved are so upset, but making the police scapegoats for what was nothing more than a tragic accident isn't going to help. There has already been a private prosecution, which failed.
What the campaigners won't admit is that it is plainly obvious that while the police may have made mistakes (which can be attributed to the inevitable chaos on the day of the disaster) they never intended to cause harm to the Liverpool fans.



Sorry but some police forces have form, the worst policing I saw was just pre Hillsborough at that ground, in the 90's I witnessed an outrageous ad cowardly attack o n a Middlesborough fan at a game in Derby - have a policeman as a relative I took it up with and described the (female) officer and her number - his response - she's famous for it and don't complain - nowt will happed except you being marked.

Did you attend matches in the 70's and 80's - if you did n't I could give you a littany of stuff that happened to me and my friends, who delibrately avoided trouble, that you would n't believe could have happened. I really have to convince myself they did - but they did.
It's not all the polices fault of course - but there was a cancer - even criminality inherent in some forces - and widely travelled fans of that era will come up with the same 'Usual Suspects' as indeed many Irish and Black(and other groups) people would.


acmold
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May 23, 2013, 1:17 PM

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Re: [Matty] Hillsbrough, police say its too late to claim [In reply to] Can't Post or

I went to lots of league football in the 1970's and 1980's and one Police force were by far the worst in the country. There view appeared to be if every away fan was attacked they would not come back and they could not give a dam about what happened to the fans. Though they also seem to care little about the fans on their own patch. I was in a coach once and some young fans were trying to brick a moving coach, by chance there was a local Policeman on board, run them down he said less problems that way and he meant it.

I always found the Police in the neighbouring force very helpful and totally different in their attitude. The neighbouring force was Derbyshire and the first force mentioned was not Nottinghamshire, but one slightly further north.


Richard Rundle
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May 23, 2013, 3:32 PM

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Re: [Chris1963] Hillsbrough, police say its too late to claim [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

That is a staggering response Chris. The initial mistakes on the day may have been incompetence rather than malice, but the reports that have come out over the last 12 months makes it very clear that there was a deliberate and long running cover-up and whitewash. Not incompetence, but at the very least the men in charge should be brought to book for such outrages


garethwrexy
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May 23, 2013, 3:58 PM

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Re: [Richard Rundle] Hillsbrough, police say its too late to claim [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

as this is a touchy subject i will be very careful in what i say !

i am not old enough to remember the day in question but from what i have read and seen on telly over the years, i think the blame lays at south yorkshire police's door,

would also say why did fa give liverpool just 1 stand that day, plus why wernt same police procedures followed from 1988 semi final,

david duckenfield should for some year have been sat in a prison cell for the orders he gave that day, ( sorry thats just my view,

alcohol did it play a part, i dont think it did myself.

in all hillsborough could have been avoided i think, and police must face action over the whole incident.



wrexham fc fa trophy winners 2013 !


kazy
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May 23, 2013, 4:46 PM

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Re: [Chris1963] Hillsbrough, police say its too late to claim [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


In Reply To
... we have to give the benefit of the doubt.


I recall this was also your view regarding Sir James Savile.

'We' don't have to do anything of the sort. You, of course, can do so if you wish.


(This post was edited by kazy on May 23, 2013, 4:47 PM)


Isaac
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May 23, 2013, 5:52 PM

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Post #11 of 24 (21523 views)
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Re: [Richard Rundle] Hillsbrough, police say its too late to claim [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


In Reply To
That is a staggering response Chris. The initial mistakes on the day may have been incompetence rather than malice, but the reports that have come out over the last 12 months makes it very clear that there was a deliberate and long running cover-up and whitewash. Not incompetence, but at the very least the men in charge should be brought to book for such outrages



I totally agree, until the full story came out I felt some sympathy for those responsible but not anymore, I hope they are prosecuted.


buncranaboy
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May 23, 2013, 8:20 PM

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Re: [Chris1963] Hillsbrough, police say its too late to claim [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


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. Since no-one did anything at the match to knowingly harm anyone, we have to give the benefit of the doubt..



Well, apart from the fact thay they declared them all dead when some apparently weren't and thus prevented help from being administered. And then lying about it.
And lying about opening the gates and not channelling the ensuing rush of fans properly.

Apart from that Chris.........as long as no programmes were damaged on the day, I guess all's well and good.


Steelback
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May 23, 2013, 9:43 PM

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Re: [buncranaboy] Hillsbrough, police say its too late to claim [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

And lying about opening the gates and not channelling the ensuing rush of fans properly


Why enter the ground without a ticket?

How the 'independent' report can say that not one single fan was responsible is utterly astonishing.

You can blame a fireman for not putting out a fire correctly but it doesn't mean he started the blaze.

You can blame a doctor for not treating your illness correctly but it doesn't mean he gave you the disease



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coops
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Jun 3, 2013, 1:58 PM

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Re: [Steelback] Hillsbrough, police say its too late to claim [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


In Reply To

Quote
And lying about opening the gates and not channelling the ensuing rush of fans
properly


Why enter the ground without a ticket?






When there is a bit of a crush outside the ground and the Police open a gate and direct you through it you would assume that this is exactly what the Police want you to do, go through said gate. And the vast majority of those entering the ground in this way HAD tickets so I don't see your point.


Steelback
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Jun 3, 2013, 10:02 PM

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Re: [coops] Hillsbrough, police say its too late to claim [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

So EVERY person in that ground had a ticket and not one single person entered the ground without a ticket?

The easy option at the time was to blame the fans just as the easy option now is to blame the authorities in order to bring the whole episode to a close



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UKPunk
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Jun 3, 2013, 10:38 PM

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Re: [Steelback] Hillsbrough, police say its too late to claim [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


In Reply To
So EVERY person in that ground had a ticket and not one single person entered the ground without a ticket?

The easy option at the time was to blame the fans just as the easy option now is to blame the authorities in order to bring the whole episode to a close

For the families of the deceased it will never ne brought to a close.



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Chris1963
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Jun 3, 2013, 11:21 PM

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Re: [kazy] Hillsbrough, police say its too late to claim [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


In Reply To

In Reply To
... we have to give the benefit of the doubt.


I recall this was also your view regarding Sir James Savile.


I'd like to remind you that under British law, people are presumed innocent until found guilty in a court of law, and that Mr. Savile was never convicted of any offence when he was alive.


Isaac
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Jun 4, 2013, 6:50 AM

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Re: [Chris1963] Hillsbrough, police say its too late to claim [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


In Reply To

In Reply To

In Reply To
... we have to give the benefit of the doubt.


I recall this was also your view regarding Sir James Savile.


I'd like to remind you that under British law, people are presumed innocent until found guilty in a court of law, and that Mr. Savile was never convicted of any offence when he was alive.



Normally I would agree with you but in the case of Savile the evidence is overwhelming


Chris1963
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Jun 4, 2013, 8:28 AM

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Re: [Isaac] Hillsbrough, police say its too late to claim [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

It's funny how about 99% of people complaining about him to the police didn't do so until about a year after he had died. He may well have behaved inapproriately towards a few people, but this is clearly a case of jumping on the bandwagon.


buncranaboy
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Re: [Chris1963] Hillsbrough, police say its too late to claim [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


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It's funny how about 99% of people complaining about him to the police didn't do so until about a year after he had died. He may well have behaved inapproriately towards a few people, but this is clearly a case of jumping on the bandwagon.



I'm sorry? Finding out that your complaint is more likely to be listened to now than when the incidents occurred and therefore plucking up the courage to lodge it even though the dirty pervert is no more - that's bandwaggon jumping in your world?
How bizarre! Nazi hunters would no doubt fall into the same category, all because Hitler may well have behaved inappropriately against some people.


acmold
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Re: [buncranaboy] Hillsbrough, police say its too late to claim [In reply to] Can't Post or

With Jimmy Saville reading the various reports and quotes I do wonder if complaints were made at the time but because of his status, title, charity work, friends in high places, etc they were over looked and swept under the carpet until now.


coops
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Re: [Steelback] Hillsbrough, police say its too late to claim [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


In Reply To
So EVERY person in that ground had a ticket and not one single person entered the ground without a ticket?

The easy option at the time was to blame the fans just as the easy option now is to blame the authorities in order to bring the whole episode to a close






Err, since when did "vast majority" come to mean "EVERY"?

I'm sure there were fans who went through that gate without a ticket, but they didn't cause the disaster, as has become clear in the subsequent report.


Steelback
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Re: [coops] Hillsbrough, police say its too late to claim [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

I'm not saying they caused it I'm saying they contributed to it, do you not agree?



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paulh66
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Jun 5, 2013, 6:40 PM

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Re: [Steelback] Hillsbrough, police say its too late to claim [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


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I'm not saying they caused it I'm saying they contributed to it, do you not agree?


In the absence of any proof that that was a contributory factor, then no. That would be the kind of lazy, biased conclusion-drawing that contributed to the miscarriage of justice in the first place.

 
 


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