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Home: All Other Football Interests: Premier League & Football League:
Smallest Championship Towns

 

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cope1
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Jun 8, 2016, 6:56 PM

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Post #26 of 49 (6277 views)
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Re: [007Dale] Smallest Championship Towns [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


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One more thought, Burton must be the smallest town to have four different teams at the second level of English football.

In fact, aside from London, is there another place in England that can boast four different teams to represent a town or city in the top two divisions of English Football?

Manchester, surely?

Bolton Wanderers
Bury
Manchester City
Manchester United
Oldham Athletic
Rochdale
Stockport County
Wigan Athletic


(This post was edited by cope1 on Jun 8, 2016, 6:58 PM)


mick
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Jun 8, 2016, 7:55 PM

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Post #27 of 49 (6251 views)
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In fact, aside from London, is there another place in England that can boast four different teams to represent a town or city in the top two divisions of English Football?

Manchester, surely?

Bolton Wanderers
Bury
Manchester City
Manchester United
Oldham Athletic
Rochdale
Stockport County
Wigan Athletic


Only one of those clubs plays in Manchester, although a second apparently claims to represent the city. Greater Manchester is neither a town nor a city.


Barbie
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Jun 8, 2016, 9:40 PM

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Post #28 of 49 (6194 views)
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Re: [mick] Smallest Championship Towns [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

Wink Although that contention would mean that none of the London clubs play in London -i.e. the City of London........


scottywalds
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Jun 8, 2016, 10:13 PM

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Post #29 of 49 (6164 views)
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Re: [cope1] Smallest Championship Towns [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


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In Reply To
One more thought, Burton must be the smallest town to have four different teams at the second level of English football.

In fact, aside from London, is there another place in England that can boast four different teams to represent a town or city in the top two divisions of English Football?

Manchester, surely?

Bolton Wanderers
Bury
Manchester City
Manchester United
Oldham Athletic
Rochdale
Stockport County
Wigan Athletic


Top 2 divisions??


PaulC
Man City Transfer Target!


Jun 9, 2016, 7:55 AM

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Post #30 of 49 (5962 views)
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The smallest place to have had a team in the Scottish League is Sanquhar, which had a population of 1,710 when Nithsdale Wanderers joined the league in 1923.


Was Dykehead detached from Shotts in the 20s?


AndyE
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Jun 9, 2016, 2:11 PM

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Post #31 of 49 (5834 views)
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Re: [PaulC] Smallest Championship Towns [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

The short answer is "I don't know". It was in the same parish, and that's as far as I can go with the data I have.

The ground is right on the edge of the built up area, and it may be that Dykehead and Shotts were clearly distinct settlements a hundred years ago. On the other hand, Shotts was a bigger town a hundred years ago than it is today because of its 22 coal mines, the last of which closed in 1961.


cope1
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Jun 9, 2016, 4:11 PM

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Post #32 of 49 (5807 views)
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In Reply To

In Reply To
One more thought, Burton must be the smallest town to have four different teams at the second level of English football.

In fact, aside from London, is there another place in England that can boast four different teams to represent a town or city in the top two divisions of English Football?

Manchester, surely?

Bolton Wanderers
Bury
Manchester City
Manchester United
Oldham Athletic
Stockport County
Wigan Athletic


Top 2 divisions??

Sorry, remove Rochdale.


(This post was edited by cope1 on Jun 9, 2016, 4:13 PM)


cope1
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Jun 9, 2016, 4:12 PM

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Post #33 of 49 (5805 views)
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Wink Although that contention would mean that none of the London clubs play in London -i.e. the City of London........

I assumed the first post was counting clubs in Greater London rather than the City which, as you rightly say, has no professional clubs whatsoever.


Barbie
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Jun 9, 2016, 5:14 PM

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Post #34 of 49 (5774 views)
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Wink Although that contention would mean that none of the London clubs play in London -i.e. the City of London........

I assumed the first post was counting clubs in Greater London rather than the City which, as you rightly say, has no professional clubs whatsoever.


Indeed. My point was that Mick was not measuring Manchester by the same yardstick.
I'm off to see how many angels I can fit on the head of a pin now.....


Tykeoldboy
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Jun 9, 2016, 6:54 PM

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Post #35 of 49 (5727 views)
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In Italy there was Castel Di Sangro, who reached Serie B in the 1990's with a population of just 5,000.
============================================================

Joe McGinniss wrote a book about their rise. (The Miracle of Castel di Sangro (1999).

The stadium held more than the population.



Hoffenheim village population just over 3000 stadium holds just over 30000


dottirofhod
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Jun 9, 2016, 7:19 PM

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Post #36 of 49 (5705 views)
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Re: [Tykeoldboy] Smallest Championship Towns [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

Sinsheim village about 15,000.

Sinsheim conglomeration about 35,000.



July 1, 2018 to June 30,2019 = 230 /190 / 40 (You know my rules) @25 /04 /2019. Only 17 x 0-0's - ( 3 in 10 recently !).
Project TFTopTierUEFAGrounds2018/19. Clubs 712.Grounds (Variable).(Inc Summer Leagues 2019. TBC) .
Need - 98 (13-7 %) @ 25/04/2019.
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mick
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Jun 9, 2016, 7:34 PM

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Post #37 of 49 (5691 views)
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Re: [dottirofhod] Smallest Championship Towns [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

The actual Hoffenheim stadium holds 6000. Still impressive for a population of 3000.


(This post was edited by mick on Jun 9, 2016, 7:38 PM)


dottirofhod
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Jun 9, 2016, 7:46 PM

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Post #38 of 49 (5679 views)
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Re: [mick] Smallest Championship Towns [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

Yep never went the Hopp.



July 1, 2018 to June 30,2019 = 230 /190 / 40 (You know my rules) @25 /04 /2019. Only 17 x 0-0's - ( 3 in 10 recently !).
Project TFTopTierUEFAGrounds2018/19. Clubs 712.Grounds (Variable).(Inc Summer Leagues 2019. TBC) .
Need - 98 (13-7 %) @ 25/04/2019.
Now blogging at https://eccentricity.video.blog/author/dadofdottie/





leohoenig
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Jun 9, 2016, 8:16 PM

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Post #39 of 49 (5658 views)
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Re: [dottirofhod] Smallest Championship Towns [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

Is the old stadium still used for the reserves? You can still goSmile

FYI. Hoffenheim 0-1 Augsburg (regionalliga sud) 2004 - attendance 2550
Hoffenheim 0-1 Freiburg (Bundesliga) 2010 - attendance 30150



Fat AND Pompous.
The proof that you can have too much of a good thing
Now blogging at http://www.leohoenig.com



dottirofhod
Man City Transfer Target!


Jun 9, 2016, 8:21 PM

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Post #40 of 49 (5651 views)
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Re: [leohoenig] Smallest Championship Towns [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

No..
Fascinating topic, off track I know but Clones Town has a population of 2,500 but a Gaelic Stadium with a capacity of 36,000.



July 1, 2018 to June 30,2019 = 230 /190 / 40 (You know my rules) @25 /04 /2019. Only 17 x 0-0's - ( 3 in 10 recently !).
Project TFTopTierUEFAGrounds2018/19. Clubs 712.Grounds (Variable).(Inc Summer Leagues 2019. TBC) .
Need - 98 (13-7 %) @ 25/04/2019.
Now blogging at https://eccentricity.video.blog/author/dadofdottie/





PaulC
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Jun 9, 2016, 11:23 PM

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Post #41 of 49 (5536 views)
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Thurles has an 8,000 population and a 53,000 capacity stadium.


AndyE
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Jun 9, 2016, 11:29 PM

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Post #42 of 49 (5530 views)
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Re: [dottirofhod] Smallest Championship Towns [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

No one really considers places like Oldham and Wigan to be "part of Manchester", so I wouldn't be particularly keen to use Greater Manchester as the definition of Manchester. That does create an issue with London, though. There is no professional football in the City of London as already noted, but if we use Greater London to define London, then should we also be using Greater Manchester to define Manchester?

There is a middle way. Suppose we define Manchester as the County Borough of Manchester as it existed until 1974. Its sole league team is then Manchester City. (Manchester United, now in the Borough of Trafford, was in the Municipal Borough of Stretford between 1910 and 1974 - although its two previous grounds were in Manchester proper.)

If we then define London as the County of London as it existed until 1965, its league teams are Arsenal, Charlton Athletic, Chelsea, Fulham, Millwall, and Queens Park Rangers. (Tottenham Hotspur is not a London club on this basis, since White Hart Lane was in the Municipal Borough of Tottenham, Middlesex until 1965. Similarly with Barnet, Brentford, Crystal Palace, Leyton Orient, West Ham United, and Wimbledon.)

Maybe this basis is artificial, but it perhaps produces more sensible results than any other basis.

And yes, Burton upon Trent is the only place apart from London to have had three different Football League teams (or to have had four Football League teams if we count mergers as new clubs). Except, of course, for the four years when Rotherham United played at Don Valley and hence Sheffield had three.


PaulC
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Jun 10, 2016, 7:43 AM

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Post #43 of 49 (5333 views)
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And yes, Burton upon Trent is the only place apart from London to have had three different Football League teams


Accrington has had 3 diferent Football League teams.


(This post was edited by PaulC on Jun 10, 2016, 7:44 AM)


007Dale
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Jun 10, 2016, 7:53 AM

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Post #44 of 49 (5325 views)
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No one really considers places like Oldham and Wigan to be "part of Manchester", so I wouldn't be particularly keen to use Greater Manchester as the definition of Manchester. That does create an issue with London, though. There is no professional football in the City of London as already noted, but if we use Greater London to define London, then should we also be using Greater Manchester to define Manchester?

There is a middle way. Suppose we define Manchester as the County Borough of Manchester as it existed until 1974. Its sole league team is then Manchester City. (Manchester United, now in the Borough of Trafford, was in the Municipal Borough of Stretford between 1910 and 1974 - although its two previous grounds were in Manchester proper.)

If we then define London as the County of London as it existed until 1965, its league teams are Arsenal, Charlton Athletic, Chelsea, Fulham, Millwall, and Queens Park Rangers. (Tottenham Hotspur is not a London club on this basis, since White Hart Lane was in the Municipal Borough of Tottenham, Middlesex until 1965. Similarly with Barnet, Brentford, Crystal Palace, Leyton Orient, West Ham United, and Wimbledon.)

Maybe this basis is artificial, but it perhaps produces more sensible results than any other basis.

And yes, Burton upon Trent is the only place apart from London to have had three different Football League teams (or to have had four Football League teams if we count mergers as new clubs). Except, of course, for the four years when Rotherham United played at Don Valley and hence Sheffield had three.


Did Rotherham make the top two divisions during their hiatus in Sheffield? Accrington certainly can't claim 3 teams in the top two divisions.


PaulC
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Jun 10, 2016, 8:00 AM

Posts: 11007
Location: Ayrshire, Midlothian
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Post #45 of 49 (5320 views)
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Did Rotherham make the top two divisions during their hiatus in Sheffield? Accrington certainly can't claim 3 teams in the top two divisions.


Is anyone claiming 3 Accrington teams in the top two divisions?


Leyther_Matt
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Jun 10, 2016, 10:32 AM

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Post #46 of 49 (5248 views)
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No one really considers places like Oldham and Wigan to be "part of Manchester", so I wouldn't be particularly keen to use Greater Manchester as the definition of Manchester. That does create an issue with London, though. There is no professional football in the City of London as already noted, but if we use Greater London to define London, then should we also be using Greater Manchester to define Manchester?

There is a middle way. Suppose we define Manchester as the County Borough of Manchester as it existed until 1974. Its sole league team is then Manchester City. (Manchester United, now in the Borough of Trafford, was in the Municipal Borough of Stretford between 1910 and 1974 - although its two previous grounds were in Manchester proper.)

If we then define London as the County of London as it existed until 1965, its league teams are Arsenal, Charlton Athletic, Chelsea, Fulham, Millwall, and Queens Park Rangers. (Tottenham Hotspur is not a London club on this basis, since White Hart Lane was in the Municipal Borough of Tottenham, Middlesex until 1965. Similarly with Barnet, Brentford, Crystal Palace, Leyton Orient, West Ham United, and Wimbledon.)

Maybe this basis is artificial, but it perhaps produces more sensible results than any other basis.

And yes, Burton upon Trent is the only place apart from London to have had three different Football League teams (or to have had four Football League teams if we count mergers as new clubs). Except, of course, for the four years when Rotherham United played at Don Valley and hence Sheffield had three.


Aren't they 'London Borough of....' though? It'll be a cold day in hell before Bolton Wanderers represent Manchester.


AndyE
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Jun 10, 2016, 2:12 PM

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Post #47 of 49 (5110 views)
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Accrington has had 3 diferent Football League teams.


Yes it has. Hands suitably held up there.


In Reply To
Aren't they 'London Borough of....' though? It'll be a cold day in hell before Bolton Wanderers represent Manchester.


Well, quite. English municipal geography is complicated, and insists on reinventing itself every generation.

There's no way to answer these sorts of questions which will satisfy everyone. In practice, a Tottenham supporter probably does think that he supports "a London club", although I'm not sure whether he thought that pre-1965. A Barnet supporter perhaps doesn't think of his club as "a London club", and a Bromley supporter undoubtedly thinks that he supports "a Kent club". (Bromley has always been the least London-minded of the London Boroughs, and the notion of seceding to Kent does come up once in a while. It's not actually going to happen, and in fact Dartford moving the other way seems altogether more likely.)

Then again, a Manchester United supporter (at least, one from Manchester) probably thinks that he supports "a Manchester club", much as his club hasn't played in the City of Manchester since 1910. Whether an Aston Villa supporter pre-1928 believed that he supported "a Birmingham club", I really don't know.


scottywalds
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Jun 11, 2016, 11:44 AM

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Post #48 of 49 (4928 views)
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Then again, a Manchester United supporter (at least, one from Manchester) probably thinks that he supports "a Manchester club", much as his club hasn't played in the City of Manchester since 1910.


They played away at Man City several times Tongue


Bantam Cymraeg
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Jun 11, 2016, 12:14 PM

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Post #49 of 49 (4915 views)
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Then again, a Manchester United supporter (at least, one from Manchester) probably thinks that he supports "a Manchester club", much as his club hasn't played in the City of Manchester since 1910.


They played away at Man City several times Tongue


They also played "at home" there a few times.

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