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Europa League - Mickey Mouse?

 



noprogs
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May 3, 2013, 5:25 PM

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Europa League - Mickey Mouse? Can't Post or Reply Privately

Yet again we have both finalists of the competition, Chelsea & Benfica, being ones who were parachuted in at the end of the group stages of the Champion's League.

It must be great to be a bookmaker - run a book at the start of the season for the two finalists, and the winners weren't even among the runners at the outset.

When you look at how many stages teams enter, and how long it drags out, possibly July to May,as in Fulham's case, then it really is a dog's breakfast.

From an English point of view it hardly improves a club's prospects domestically, teams such as Ipswich, Birmingham and Newcastle spring to mind.

You never can start from a blank sheet of paper, but there must be something better than this..


PaulC
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May 6, 2013, 7:00 PM

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Re: [noprogs] Europa League - Mickey Mouse? [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

Yes there is. Have a competition just for champions of each country and one for the other top teams


Bantam Cymraeg
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May 6, 2013, 7:11 PM

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Re: [PaulC] Europa League - Mickey Mouse? [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

... and maybe a third competition for winners of domestic cups?


cope1
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May 7, 2013, 4:42 PM

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Re: [noprogs] Europa League - Mickey Mouse? [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

The parachute bit is total rubbish. It's the sort of thing you expect at a 5-a-side competition. When Arsenal reached the final in 2000 they did it that way and it was embarrassing. Obviously I wanted my side to win but every win took us closer to the final and raised the profile of our initial failure in the Champions League.

I don't really see what other options there are. We aren't ever going to return to a champions-only competition certainly. The only thing I can think is that the competition has to be something different, not just a second rate Champions League. I don't really know how that could work off the top of my head though. Returning to a straight knock out could be one way of doing it. At least then it might regain some of the Euro-night 'special' feeling which long ago disappeared from the CL with so many games being played.


noprogs
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May 7, 2013, 11:06 PM

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Re: [cope1] Europa League - Mickey Mouse? [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

So both Swansea & Wigan are now in this competition next season.
Here and now is my prediction that it won't do either of them any favours.


sandhurstbee
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May 8, 2013, 1:28 PM

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Re: [noprogs] Europa League - Mickey Mouse? [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

Oh I don`t know I am sure there will be more interest in Swansea in the Europa League than TNS in the Champions League.



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rainjar
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May 16, 2013, 1:50 AM

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Re: [Bantam Cymraeg] Europa League - Mickey Mouse? [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

Chelsea join a handful of clubs that have won each of the major European club competitions (in their various guises), including the defunct Cup Winners Cup:

* Barcelona - 4 times European Cup / Champions League, 3 times Fairs Cup / UEFA Cup / Europa League, 4 times Cup Winners' Cup
* Bayern Munich - 4, 1, 1
* Ajax - 4, 1, 1
* Juventus - 2, 3, 1
* Chelsea - 1, 1, 2



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northstandexile
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May 16, 2013, 4:32 PM

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Re: [rainjar] Europa League - Mickey Mouse? [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

But the question is

Are Chelsea the only side to hold two at the same time.


cope1
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May 16, 2013, 5:10 PM

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Post #9 of 24 (4486 views)
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Re: [northstandexile] Europa League - Mickey Mouse? [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

Yes. The following teams have won different European trophies in consecutive years:

Milan (CWC 68, EC 69)
Liverpool (UC 76, EC 77)
Juventus (CWC 84, EC 85)
Porto (UC 03, EC 04)

In each of these cases the final of the lower ranked competition had been completed (some were 2-legged) the week before the European Cup final meaning that by the time that final was contested the other two cups had been won again.

Of course, this is the first time a team has won the UEFA Cup/Europa League the year after winning the Champions League. I feel the whole thing is a bit silly as it simply serves to highlight the fact that Chelsea didn't make it past the group stage of the Champions League. Arsenal did do, and managed to beat Bayern 2-0 away but you don't get a trophy for that.


(This post was edited by cope1 on May 16, 2013, 5:11 PM)


Isaac
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May 16, 2013, 5:12 PM

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Post #10 of 24 (4483 views)
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Re: [northstandexile] Europa League - Mickey Mouse? [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


In Reply To
But the question is

Are Chelsea the only side to hold two at the same time.


Yes apparently they are.

I agree clubs that co out of the CL into the EL is crazyMad


jrev61
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May 16, 2013, 7:37 PM

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Re: [Isaac] Europa League - Mickey Mouse? [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

Fernando Torres currently plays for the holders of the Champions League ,Europa League, World Cup and European Championship.
I believe he has played in all 4 finals, although mostly as a sub.
Does this make him the most successful failure of all time?



jrev61


wishmaster3211
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May 19, 2013, 3:25 PM

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Re: [Isaac] Europa League - Mickey Mouse? [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

I don't think its Mickey Mouse, I actually like it. Though its not really anything to be proud of holding both at the same time as it means you failed in the Champions League.

I don't like the over long League phase (apparently very costly to most clubs financially too) or the parachuting, but I have to say I find it a much more interesting competition to watch simply because its not so predictable who will win it. Obviously there are exceptions, the recent one with two Spanish Clubs in the final wasn't exactly great, but this year I have really enjoyed the matches I have watched.



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(This post was edited by wishmaster3211 on May 19, 2013, 3:26 PM)


crazyknight
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May 21, 2013, 5:32 PM

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Re: [wishmaster3211] Europa League - Mickey Mouse? [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

For years, I knew it as the Losers Cup, now I know it as the Losers League. Just call it a bowl or a plate because that's what it is; it's the plate competition at a 7's day.


kirby knitters
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May 21, 2013, 5:50 PM

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Post #14 of 24 (4264 views)
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Re: [crazyknight] Europa League - Mickey Mouse? [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


In Reply To
For years, I knew it as the Losers Cup, now I know it as the Losers League. Just call it a bowl or a plate because that's what it is; it's the plate competition at a 7's day.

So you wudnt have been in Amsterdam had West Ham been there last week then?


buncranaboy
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May 21, 2013, 11:31 PM

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Re: [crazyknight] Europa League - Mickey Mouse? [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


In Reply To
For years, I knew it as the Losers Cup, now I know it as the Losers League. Just call it a bowl or a plate because that's what it is; it's the plate competition at a 7's day.



Most of the Champions League entrants are also losers as well..........


crazyknight
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May 22, 2013, 1:05 AM

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Re: [kirby knitters] Europa League - Mickey Mouse? [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

No, but that's more an expression on me and where I am as a football fan. If you've done a Fulham and battled your way through from the early rounds, then I say you deserve it. However, UEFA have made this a cup for Champions League rejects. It's the booby prize. You lose in the final qualification round, have a go in the Europa League. You bomb out of the playoff round, have a go in the Europa League. Finish third in your CL group, have a go in the Europa League. If I were a Chelsea fan, I'm not sure I could have stomached going over to watch that game.

Easy way is to fix it is to simply stop using it as the loser's league and make it a competition in its own right. Follow the CL format of 32 teams down to a last 16, rather than go from 48 teams down to 32 with the addition of eight CL teams. It's a dog's breakfast of a competition, it always has been but UEFA don't want competitions, they want pageants and that's what the Europa League is.


kirby knitters
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May 22, 2013, 10:21 AM

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Re: [crazyknight] Europa League - Mickey Mouse? [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

No arguments from me on what you say,the press used to call it lucky losers for the teams finishing 3rd in the group stage!!Lucky for who?surely not the clubs who would probably rather not be in it(the cash they make is minimal)certainly not the clubs fans and definately not the clubs who as you say have battled through from early doors...oh the days of the cup winners cup,ok that was also full of lucky losers but that was because of domestic goings on rather than what goes on now and there wasnt another way to operate it once the champions league came ito being.They call it progress.Frown


cope1
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May 22, 2013, 9:24 PM

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Re: [kirby knitters] Europa League - Mickey Mouse? [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

I've said this before on various threads so excuse me for repeating myself but I found it embarrassing when Arsenal reached the UEFA Cup final in 2000 having dropped in from the Champions League. It was bizarre. Hard to watch your team and not want them to win but every round progressed highlighted all the more the initial failure.

Back to how to re-organise it, the only way I can see that you can increase the appeal of the secondary competition is to include top tier teams. This means they play in two competitions simultaneously. Not something that's been done in Europe since early years of the Fairs Cup but it happens in South America.


rainjar
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May 23, 2013, 2:30 AM

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Re: [cope1] Europa League - Mickey Mouse? [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

Or how about the Europa League winners qualify for the following season's Champions League? The winners go straight into the group stages, the runners up into the qualifying rounds/play-offs, if they don't achieve that through their domestic competitions.

If finishing third or even fourth in your domestic league can get you into the Champions League qualifying play-offs, why not reaching the finals of the Europa League?



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kirby knitters
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May 23, 2013, 2:39 PM

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Re: [rainjar] Europa League - Mickey Mouse? [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

Someone has been reading your posts rainjar....

Uefa are expected to announce tomorrow whether the Europa winners will gain a spot in the following seasons champions league.Only question remaining is what if they have already qualified through a league position?they surely wudnt give it to the runners up?id put nothing past them.


cope1
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May 23, 2013, 10:31 PM

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Re: [kirby knitters] Europa League - Mickey Mouse? [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


In Reply To
Someone has been reading your posts rainjar....

Uefa are expected to announce tomorrow whether the Europa winners will gain a spot in the following seasons champions league.Only question remaining is what if they have already qualified through a league position?they surely wudnt give it to the runners up?id put nothing past them.

Eh? What would you not put past them? Is it bad to give the place to the runners-up? Or bad to not give it to the runners-up?


kirby knitters
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May 24, 2013, 10:18 AM

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Re: [cope1] Europa League - Mickey Mouse? [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

in my opinion bad to give it to them full stop,winners,losers,whoever its the slipery slope.By keep attempting to make this competition more user friendly they have made a complete pigs ear of the whole thing.


Part-Timer
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May 24, 2013, 1:29 PM

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Re: [kirby knitters] Europa League - Mickey Mouse? [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

Uefa are also expected to revoke the rule preventing one country entering more than four teams in the Champions League. Cue English clubs placing the Europa League a little higher on their priority list?


cope1
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May 27, 2013, 11:10 AM

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Re: [kirby knitters] Europa League - Mickey Mouse? [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

But why? Surely it makes winning the tournament important to more teams, or more important to all teams? The winners would at least have won something after all.

My only reservation is that it still involves CL losers dropping into the Europa League. Chelsea will be reported as having the best season in Europe of all English clubs this season past but that's simply not the case. Arsenal earn that honour, just ahead of Man Utd. Both reached the last 16 of the Champions League but Arsenal lost (a) to the overall winners and (b) by the smallest margin. Chelsea couldn't manage that so surely whatever happened after that, their achievement is less.

 
 


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