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Home: Non-League Football Discussion: Restructuring Discussion:
Stourbridge Promotion denied?

 

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BrakesBrother
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Apr 2, 2013, 7:29 PM

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Stourbridge Promotion denied? Can't Post or Reply Privately

Read on the Leamington forum that the conference have denied Stourbridge entry to the conference N if they get promoted.
Apparently because they are not able to start playing at their ground until September and not after April, it's unacceptable to them and if they finish in a SL play off position they will not be allowed to compete.
Only a rumour but wouldn't be shocked as the conference are real sticklers.


VP
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Apr 2, 2013, 8:18 PM

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Re: [BrakesBrother] Stourbridge Promotion denied? [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

This could be interesting.
For starters, the FA direct teams to leagues now so, theoretically, the Conference can't refuse clubs that have the grading. If they do refuse Stourbridge would the FA buckle or would they put their foot down and tell the Conference they're accepting them?
There's nothing in the ground grading documents or the FA's standardised rules that says a club must be able to host matches in August and/or May so, as far as I'm aware, there's no rule the Conference can point to to exclude Stourbridge or anyone else.
If this does become an issue I'd expect a new rule to be inserted for next season.


(This post was edited by VP on Apr 2, 2013, 8:21 PM)


BrakesBrother
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Apr 2, 2013, 8:25 PM

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Post #3 of 42 (5637 views)
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Re: [VP] Stourbridge Promotion denied? [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


In Reply To
This could be interesting.
For starters, the FA direct teams to leagues now so, theoretically, the Conference can't refuse clubs that have the grading. If they do refuse Stourbridge would the FA buckle or would they put their foot down and tell the Conference they're accepting them?
There's nothing in the ground grading documents or the FA's standardised rules that says a club must be able to host matches in August and/or May so, as far as I'm aware, there's no rule the Conference can point to to exclude Stourbridge or anyone else.
If this does become an issue I'd expect a new rule to be inserted for next season.

It's a strange one, because in reality they would have to groundshare with a club for August, and if there is no groundsharing agreement in place by 31st March couldn't that be an issue?


VP
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Apr 2, 2013, 8:32 PM

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Post #4 of 42 (5621 views)
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Re: [BrakesBrother] Stourbridge Promotion denied? [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


In Reply To

In Reply To
This could be interesting.
For starters, the FA direct teams to leagues now so, theoretically, the Conference can't refuse clubs that have the grading. If they do refuse Stourbridge would the FA buckle or would they put their foot down and tell the Conference they're accepting them?
There's nothing in the ground grading documents or the FA's standardised rules that says a club must be able to host matches in August and/or May so, as far as I'm aware, there's no rule the Conference can point to to exclude Stourbridge or anyone else.
If this does become an issue I'd expect a new rule to be inserted for next season.

It's a strange one, because in reality they would have to groundshare with a club for August, and if there is no groundsharing agreement in place by 31st March couldn't that be an issue?


I suppose that's a possible issue. Of course, most leagues just fit the fixtures around pitch availability when cricket is played on the same ground but I can see that there has to be a cut off point somewhere. You can't really expect a professional club to not be in the position to host home games in August so I wouldn't expect it to be possible at step 1, step 2 is borderline in my opinion. Below that - fine. I don't think clubs should be forced into a groundshare for a month each season.


(This post was edited by VP on Apr 2, 2013, 8:40 PM)


AnotherGlassboy
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Apr 2, 2013, 8:58 PM

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Post #5 of 42 (5598 views)
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Re: [VP] Stourbridge Promotion denied? [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


In Reply To

In Reply To

In Reply To
This could be interesting.
For starters, the FA direct teams to leagues now so, theoretically, the Conference can't refuse clubs that have the grading. If they do refuse Stourbridge would the FA buckle or would they put their foot down and tell the Conference they're accepting them?
There's nothing in the ground grading documents or the FA's standardised rules that says a club must be able to host matches in August and/or May so, as far as I'm aware, there's no rule the Conference can point to to exclude Stourbridge or anyone else.
If this does become an issue I'd expect a new rule to be inserted for next season.

It's a strange one, because in reality they would have to groundshare with a club for August, and if there is no groundsharing agreement in place by 31st March couldn't that be an issue?


I suppose that's a possible issue. Of course, most leagues just fit the fixtures around pitch availability when cricket is played on the same ground but I can see that there has to be a cut off point somewhere. You can't really expect a professional club to not be in the position to host home games in August so I wouldn't expect it to be possible at step 1, step 2 is borderline in my opinion. Below that - fine. I don't think clubs should be forced into a groundshare for a month each season.

First things first - I have no inside info on this rumour at all so can't add much, or indeed anything, either way.

On the subject of Leagues "working round" ground availability when planning fixtures, the SL made it clear when Stourbridge were promoted from the MFA in 2006 that we would not be granted any concessions in relation to our August fixtures. We would be treated like any other club and if Amblecote was not available for a game then we would have to find an alternative venue. As a club we knew that from day 1, accepted it, and have never argued about it.

We have, however, tried to do what we can to minimise the need to play games away from Amblecote. Some August midweek games have been played at "home" over the last three seasons with co-operation from the cricket club. We have also been able to move August Bank Holiday games to the following night (v Halesowen last season) and the Monday evening (v Barwell this season) with agreement from the opposition. This in itself has been a welcome "relaxation" from the SL as we had for the first couple of years not been allowed to budge from 3pm on the Monday even when the opposition were happy to do so.

Should that kind of arrangement be tolerated at step 2? I would say yes, but then I would, wouldn't I? Divorcing myself from the fact that it's my club involved, I can see the arguments both ways.


(This post was edited by AnotherGlassboy on Apr 2, 2013, 9:05 PM)


northstandexile
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Apr 4, 2013, 12:10 PM

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Post #6 of 42 (5297 views)
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Re: [BrakesBrother] Stourbridge Promotion denied? [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

I am sure that this was first posted on 1st April. Wink


oftenscore6
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Apr 4, 2013, 2:08 PM

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Post #7 of 42 (5227 views)
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Re: [AnotherGlassboy] Stourbridge Promotion denied? [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


In Reply To

In Reply To

In Reply To

In Reply To
This could be interesting.
For starters, the FA direct teams to leagues now so, theoretically, the Conference can't refuse clubs that have the grading. If they do refuse Stourbridge would the FA buckle or would they put their foot down and tell the Conference they're accepting them?
There's nothing in the ground grading documents or the FA's standardised rules that says a club must be able to host matches in August and/or May so, as far as I'm aware, there's no rule the Conference can point to to exclude Stourbridge or anyone else.
If this does become an issue I'd expect a new rule to be inserted for next season.

It's a strange one, because in reality they would have to groundshare with a club for August, and if there is no groundsharing agreement in place by 31st March couldn't that be an issue?


I suppose that's a possible issue. Of course, most leagues just fit the fixtures around pitch availability when cricket is played on the same ground but I can see that there has to be a cut off point somewhere. You can't really expect a professional club to not be in the position to host home games in August so I wouldn't expect it to be possible at step 1, step 2 is borderline in my opinion. Below that - fine. I don't think clubs should be forced into a groundshare for a month each season.

First things first - I have no inside info on this rumour at all so can't add much, or indeed anything, either way.

On the subject of Leagues "working round" ground availability when planning fixtures, the SL made it clear when Stourbridge were promoted from the MFA in 2006 that we would not be granted any concessions in relation to our August fixtures. We would be treated like any other club and if Amblecote was not available for a game then we would have to find an alternative venue. As a club we knew that from day 1, accepted it, and have never argued about it.

We have, however, tried to do what we can to minimise the need to play games away from Amblecote. Some August midweek games have been played at "home" over the last three seasons with co-operation from the cricket club. We have also been able to move August Bank Holiday games to the following night (v Halesowen last season) and the Monday evening (v Barwell this season) with agreement from the opposition. This in itself has been a welcome "relaxation" from the SL as we had for the first couple of years not been allowed to budge from 3pm on the Monday even when the opposition were happy to do so.

Should that kind of arrangement be tolerated at step 2? I would say yes, but then I would, wouldn't I? Divorcing myself from the fact that it's my club involved, I can see the arguments both ways.


As a fan of another club which groundshares, we haven't been able to play all our games at our usual venue either. Before the NPL switched to the fixture computer, all of our home games were when Bury were away, but this hasn't been possible since. After a season of forcing us to play midweek home fixtures instead of Saturday ones, the NPL have let us play at alternative venues for the last few seasons, when Gigg Lane is unavailable. We have competed in the NPP playoffs the last 2 years without any suggestion we would not be allowed up to step 2 - I can't see any difference for Stourbridge that it's cricket rather than another team. As Northstandred says, I presume this story made an April 1st debut?



-----------------------------------------------
Last new football ground (965) Havey Hadden Stadium Bilborough Town 4-6 Rainworth MW
With FC United: 135
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23/11 Runcorn Linnets v FC United
29/11 Drochtersen/Assel v Altona


AnotherGlassboy
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Apr 4, 2013, 2:21 PM

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Post #8 of 42 (5215 views)
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Re: [oftenscore6] Stourbridge Promotion denied? [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

First posted on our forum at 3.51 pm on Tuesday 2nd April, but of course the person who posted it could have been told it as an April Fool the previous day and accepted it "in good faith".

However, the same rumour was posted on the SL forum in mid-March, without gaining too much traction at that time.

I wish I was able to dismiss it so casually!

FCUM's situation is no different from Gloucester's surely, so there can hardly be any objection to that? The degree and materiality to which our situation differs is debatable - but it differs all the same. That much I cannot deny.


(This post was edited by AnotherGlassboy on Apr 4, 2013, 2:23 PM)


Swindon Addick
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Apr 7, 2013, 12:34 PM

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Post #9 of 42 (4865 views)
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Re: [AnotherGlassboy] Stourbridge Promotion denied? [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

I can't quote the exact rule, but from memory I think that clubs who groundshare with another sport are expected to have priority over fixtures, while those who groundshare with another football club are expected to give priority to the club at the higher level. So FCUM would be OK but Stourbridge wouldn't.

I'm sure this will have been asked before, but what did Northampton Town used to do when they shared the County Ground?



Cambridge City - on a tour of places we've never heard of and can't spell.


acmold
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Apr 7, 2013, 12:58 PM

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Re: [Swindon Addick] Stourbridge Promotion denied? [In reply to] Can't Post or

Northampton played second fiddle to the Cricket, also what about Sheffield United 40 or so years ago.


chienmort
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Apr 7, 2013, 1:59 PM

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Post #11 of 42 (4824 views)
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Re: [Swindon Addick] Stourbridge Promotion denied? [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

The rules do change season by season but the previous poster was right in that Football must take precedence. You might not like it but it is there in black and white.



Poole Town FC - les couilles du chien


AnotherGlassboy
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Apr 7, 2013, 5:28 PM

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Re: [Swindon Addick] Stourbridge Promotion denied? [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


In Reply To
I can't quote the exact rule, but from memory I think that clubs who groundshare with another sport are expected to have priority over fixtures, while those who groundshare with another football club are expected to give priority to the club at the higher level. So FCUM would be OK but Stourbridge wouldn't.

I'm sure this will have been asked before, but what did Northampton Town used to do when they shared the County Ground?

Who has priority at Rodney Parade? Not a trick question - I honestly don't know and am curious.


acmold
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Apr 7, 2013, 6:23 PM

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Re: [AnotherGlassboy] Stourbridge Promotion denied? [In reply to] Can't Post or

This came up when London Welsh wanted to share with Oxford United at the first the Rugby authorities wanted London Welsh to have first option, which of course they could not as Oxford United were already in situ. In the case of Rugby shares appear to be allowed as long as it is acceptable to both parties, someone has to play on a Friday or a Sunday.


AnotherGlassboy
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Apr 7, 2013, 7:20 PM

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Re: [acmold] Stourbridge Promotion denied? [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

So is it the case that Newport County sometimes have to give way to the Rugby club? If so, then I don't see how that differs one iota from Stourbridge's situation.


Bullet Header
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Apr 7, 2013, 11:08 PM

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Re: [chienmort] Stourbridge Promotion denied? [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


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The rules do change season by season but the previous poster was right in that Football must take precedence. You might not like it but it is there in black and white.



Is it? Doesn't it just say: (a) own the freehold of the ground, or (b) As at 31 March in any year, have a lease for the ground that extends for a minimum of the next full playing season, or (c) possess an agreement for the use of the ground which is acceptable to The Football Association and The Football Conference or the league of which it is a member.

Or am I looking in the wrong place?


Newport County do have first call on Rodney Parade and most rugby matches get played on a Friday or Sunday if there is a clash with the football.



kirby knitters
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Apr 12, 2013, 5:49 AM

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Re: [AnotherGlassboy] Stourbridge Promotion denied? [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

The silence is deafening,there is nothing to confirm or deny the rumblings on the official site or forum,all this whilst the team is winning most games.

A friend of the chairman at Barwell FC is under the impression 'something is happening'and its not necessarily good.If i was a Stourbridge fan id be going crazy.


ladderman
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Apr 17, 2013, 9:12 PM

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Re: [kirby knitters] Stourbridge Promotion denied? [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

Any news on this? I’m about to write my monthly “we wanna’ go home” column for our programme. Deadline’s tomorrow, this is big-time journalism…


AnotherGlassboy
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Apr 18, 2013, 7:09 AM

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Re: [ladderman] Stourbridge Promotion denied? [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


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Any news on this? I’m about to write my monthly “we wanna’ go home” column for our programme. Deadline’s tomorrow, this is big-time journalism…


I tried to send you a PM last night with my own thoughts, but I gather you don't accept them.

I know nothing official, and not much more unofficial. We are now guaranteed to finish 2nd (a miracle could still see us win the League), and the play-offs begin in 12 days.

I can email you something if you want to PM me an email address but much of it will be guesswork and assumption as well as being off the record.


ladderman
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Apr 18, 2013, 7:44 AM

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Re: [AnotherGlassboy] Stourbridge Promotion denied? [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

I do accept PMs, even abuse ones! I'll PM you and we'll see if you can answer it.

I presume that they've accepted your ground if nothing's been said by now. Though perhaps that's a dangerous assumption.


kirby knitters
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Apr 18, 2013, 9:45 AM

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Re: [ladderman] Stourbridge Promotion denied? [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


In Reply To
I do accept PMs, even abuse ones! I'll PM you and we'll see if you can answer it.

I presume that they've accepted your ground if nothing's been said by now. Though perhaps that's a dangerous assumption.

Tim off this site(Stourbridge fan)has already put his play off game in against opponents unknown for 30/4 on the WAYG section so i assume they have got the go ahead


Mr. T
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Apr 18, 2013, 10:50 AM

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Re: [kirby knitters] Stourbridge Promotion denied? [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

A posting on the Stourbridge forum in March confirmed that the club had received its 'C' grading, which is enough for promotion.

The fixture priority business apparently surfaced last season at the same time. Some forum members think it was no more than a genuine enquiry that has since turned into a bit of mischief.


kirby knitters
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Apr 18, 2013, 11:02 AM

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Re: [Mr. T] Stourbridge Promotion denied? [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

Thank you Mr.T for the comformation tho the mischief making wasnt helped by the Leamington forum(even tho it did appear on 1/4!!)


stourboy
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Apr 18, 2013, 2:29 PM

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Re: [kirby knitters] Stourbridge Promotion denied? [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


In Reply To
The silence is deafening,there is nothing to confirm or deny the rumblings on the official site or forum,all this whilst the team is winning most games.

A friend of the chairman at Barwell FC is under the impression 'something is happening'and its not necessarily good.If i was a Stourbridge fan id be going crazy.


Not going crazy; nothing to worry about some internet troll.


kirby knitters
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Apr 18, 2013, 6:16 PM

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Re: [stourboy] Stourbridge Promotion denied? [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

Well thats good news and i genuinely wish you all the best in your quest for BSN football but i fear you may have to beat our neighbour's from hell to achieve it.They have taken to bullying brute force tactics so beware!!!


stourboy
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Apr 19, 2013, 12:05 PM

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Re: [kirby knitters] Stourbridge Promotion denied? [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


In Reply To
Well thats good news and i genuinely wish you all the best in your quest for BSN football but i fear you may have to beat our neighbour's from hell to achieve it.They have taken to bullying brute force tactics so beware!!!


Thanks a lot, but yeah I'm worried sick about Barwell more than anyone else in the playoff semis - don't think I'll be able to face coming back for the home semifinal as I will be so worried Frown

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