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American Psyche...

 



DonQuixote
Chelsea Transfer Target


Dec 24, 2012, 6:29 PM

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Post #1 of 13 (2551 views)
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American Psyche... Can't Post or Reply Privately

..never liked Peers (sic) Morgan from days of yore but he has
certainly pissed off a few of the Yanks.

It is hard for most of us this side of the pond to grasp the gun
thing 'Stateside' but in the land of the free, over 30,000 have
signed a petition to have him deported after he had the temerity
to question the gun laws.

I wonder how many peeps in Newton, Connecticut signed said petition?




FA Vase semi programme wanted: 2001 Taunton v Clitheroe.



paulh66
Qatar World Cup bid member!


Dec 24, 2012, 7:29 PM

Posts: 19399
Location: Surrey
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Post #2 of 13 (2538 views)
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Re: [DonQuixote] American Psyche... [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

The right to bear arms goes right back to the Constitution, and Americans are rather proud of their Constitution, which overall has served them well over the years. While carrying guns is mostly an American thing, the idea that you cannot carry and use a weapon to defend yourself if, say, you were being attacked in your own home, is appalling to most over here. To then have a foreigner (...and such an obnoxious one as Morgan) telling them their system is wrong, then frankly I'm surprised the figure campaigning for his deportation is as low as 30,000!

As for the Newtown massacre, many still feel the gun laws are something of a side argument and that the real issue is another failing in US society's ability to identify and prevent those responsible from carrying out such incidents, citing extremely lax rules and regulations surrounding mental care as a contributor, for example.


DonQuixote
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Dec 24, 2012, 8:34 PM

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Post #3 of 13 (2525 views)
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Re: [paulh66] American Psyche... [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

the real issue is another failing in US society's ability to identify
and prevent those responsible from carrying out such incidents


So little change since 1776 then....




FA Vase semi programme wanted: 2001 Taunton v Clitheroe.



Isaac
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Dec 24, 2012, 8:53 PM

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Post #4 of 13 (2514 views)
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Re: [DonQuixote] American Psyche... [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

Another incident today where two fireman were shot dead, a gun has only one purpose.


jrev61
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Dec 24, 2012, 8:53 PM

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Post #5 of 13 (2514 views)
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Re: [DonQuixote] American Psyche... [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


In Reply To
the real issue is another failing in US society's ability to identify
and prevent those responsible from carrying out such incidents


So little change since 1776 then....

Are you suggesting every loner who acts a little oddly should be locked up, although they have commited no crime. This could maybe be done in a Third World dictatorship but not in a democracy. Also they would need a lot of new prisons.



jrev61


paulh66
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Dec 24, 2012, 9:11 PM

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Post #6 of 13 (2507 views)
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Re: [jrev61] American Psyche... [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


In Reply To

In Reply To
the real issue is another failing in US society's ability to identify
and prevent those responsible from carrying out such incidents


So little change since 1776 then....

Are you suggesting every loner who acts a little oddly should be locked up, although they have commited no crime. This could maybe be done in a Third World dictatorship but not in a democracy. Also they would need a lot of new prisons.


No. I cited the mental care side as just one example of what people here seem to think is one of the contributing factors to these types of incidents (... there's no equivalent of Social Services over here). A number of other societal issues too.

While valid questions are being raised about the type of weapon that should legitimately be allowed to be carried, there is no appetite to outlaw the right to bear arms. An exaggerated comparison would be do you ban cars because they kill people? No, because ultimately it is people (not cars or guns etc) who are responsible for killing others. Rightly or wrongly, that seems to be how they view things here.


DonQuixote
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Dec 24, 2012, 9:32 PM

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Post #7 of 13 (2499 views)
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Re: [Isaac] American Psyche... [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

This is an argument that will run and run and nobody will ever win -
or maybe those with the most fire power might.

Too much sway in the lower house and senate, plus the NRA,
for weapons to be downgraded.

Then again, who would have thought a black muslim would have
gotten four more years in power?

The average American has more things to worry about, like
Janet Jackson's nipple for example.
Didn't that prompt an outpouring of moral outrage?

I'm sure that a spotty nerd at Langley has tagged me in
his chatter basket now... Cool




FA Vase semi programme wanted: 2001 Taunton v Clitheroe.



Chris1963
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Dec 24, 2012, 9:43 PM

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Post #8 of 13 (2493 views)
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Re: [DonQuixote] American Psyche... [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


In Reply To
This is an argument that will run and run and nobody will ever win -
or maybe those with the most fire power might.

Too much sway in the lower house and senate, plus the NRA,
for weapons to be downgraded.

Then again, who would have thought a black muslim would have
gotten four more years in power?

Barack Obama isn't a Muslim, although a lot of rednecks seem to think he is. But otherwise I agree with you.


Chris1963
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Dec 24, 2012, 9:50 PM

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Post #9 of 13 (2487 views)
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Re: [jrev61] American Psyche... [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


In Reply To

In Reply To
the real issue is another failing in US society's ability to identify
and prevent those responsible from carrying out such incidents


So little change since 1776 then....

Are you suggesting every loner who acts a little oddly should be locked up, although they have commited no crime. This could maybe be done in a Third World dictatorship but not in a democracy. Also they would need a lot of new prisons.


Already plenty of of prisons in the US as it is but you have a good point to make otherwise.

I think that we need to show more sympathy and support for people who have autism spectrum disorders. The reason why these people commit these massacres may be because they were bullied at school, and so it is the bullies who should take a share of the blame.


DonQuixote
Chelsea Transfer Target


Dec 24, 2012, 9:50 PM

Posts: 6045
Location: Crossrail - Zone 6
Team(s): Romford, Everton, @BrentwoodSunLge

Post #10 of 13 (2487 views)
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Re: [Chris1963] American Psyche... [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

I'll give you a clue...I married my sister.... Tongue




FA Vase semi programme wanted: 2001 Taunton v Clitheroe.



jon b
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Dec 25, 2012, 8:16 AM

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Post #11 of 13 (2450 views)
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Re: [paulh66] American Psyche... [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


In Reply To
The right to bear arms goes right back to the Constitution, and Americans are rather proud of their Constitution, which overall has served them well over the years. While carrying guns is mostly an American thing, the idea that you cannot carry and use a weapon to defend yourself if, say, you were being attacked in your own home, is appalling to most over here. To then have a foreigner (...and such an obnoxious one as Morgan) telling them their system is wrong, then frankly I'm surprised the figure campaigning for his deportation is as low as 30,000!

As for the Newtown massacre, many still feel the gun laws are something of a side argument and that the real issue is another failing in US society's ability to identify and prevent those responsible from carrying out such incidents, citing extremely lax rules and regulations surrounding mental care as a contributor, for example.


The right to bear arms is enshrined in the second amendment to the US Constitution. Piers Moron was exercising his right to free speech as set out in the first amendment.

In any case I don't see the US Constitution as a sacred text given that it took until 1865 to pass an amendment outlawing slavery and until 1919 to pass one giving women the vote. And there was that fun one in 1917 prohibiting the sale, manufacture or transportation of alcohol.

The lawmakers who passed the second amendment probably couldn't have foreseen the invention of the semi automatic rifle used in the latest killings nor that anyone would turn such a weapon on school children. Crazy

If the Americans want to put up with intermittent school massacres that's their problem, but it would be grossly unfair of them to inflict the Moron on us again. Tongue


wishmaster3211
First Team Star


Dec 27, 2012, 5:24 PM

Posts: 2481
Location: A small town in Monmouthshire
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Post #12 of 13 (2331 views)
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Re: [paulh66] American Psyche... [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


In Reply To

In Reply To

In Reply To
the real issue is another failing in US society's ability to identify
and prevent those responsible from carrying out such incidents


So little change since 1776 then....

Are you suggesting every loner who acts a little oddly should be locked up, although they have commited no crime. This could maybe be done in a Third World dictatorship but not in a democracy. Also they would need a lot of new prisons.


No. I cited the mental care side as just one example of what people here seem to think is one of the contributing factors to these types of incidents (... there's no equivalent of Social Services over here). A number of other societal issues too.

While valid questions are being raised about the type of weapon that should legitimately be allowed to be carried, there is no appetite to outlaw the right to bear arms. An exaggerated comparison would be do you ban cars because they kill people? No, because ultimately it is people (not cars or guns etc) who are responsible for killing others. Rightly or wrongly, that seems to be how they view things here.


Its nice to read a reasoned view of the Americans attitude to Freedom and Gun control. Since I was a kid I have actually always understood where they are coming from and have always had more of an issue with the British view. A gun is just a tool, albeit a tool that kills people. That said, I do consider the widespread ownership of high firepower automatic weapons to be a little extreme. It is clear they have a number of other issues in the areas of School and Public building security (I bet it wouldn't be too easy to get into a British school illegally nowadays), and Mental Health...its orders of magnitude easier to get a Firearm than it is to get treatment for that....



"Run For the Hills Before They Burn"

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Mark
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Dec 28, 2012, 7:31 PM

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Post #13 of 13 (2283 views)
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Re: [wishmaster3211] American Psyche... [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

Has anyone started a petition to keep Piers Moron in the US? I'd happily sign.

 
 


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