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Home: Non Football Related: General Chat:
am/pm versus 24-hour clock

 



MunichMike
Junior Team Sub

Jul 21, 2012, 1:35 PM

Posts: 22
Location: Munich (if you hadn't guessed)
Team(s): Swindon, Wolves, Eintracht Frankfurt

Post #1 of 20 (1801 views)
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am/pm versus 24-hour clock Can't Post or Reply Privately

A beautiful illustration of a pet peeve of mine is visible on the forum at this moment.

Under "Other sports" on the main index, the newest entry is listed as 11:39 am on 21 July
But the "Other sports" index itself gives the latest as 12:33 am on 21 July

Both these entries do exist, and there must be some strange programming going on here, but the main point is:
The am/pm system is unworkable! No-one knows for certain what "12:33 am" means, or is going to be interpreted as!

Just suppose an important transaction (eg. handing over ransome money) has been set for 12:30 am on the 21st.
Some will think "12:30 is just after midnight", and so will turn up after midnight on the 21st, but this is of course now the 22nd.
Others will think "12:30 am is an hour later than 11:30 am", and will turn up just after noon.
Still others will think "12:30 am on the 21st follows 12:00 pm on the 20th" and will turn up in the early hours of the 21st. This weird-sounding logic is formally correct, but who knows whether those expecting to receive the money were thinking this way?

So, even if you are never involved in a ransome, please help stamp out this archaic and troublesome system. Use a 24-hour clock!

After 23:59 on the 20th comes one moment which can either be described as 24:00 on the 20th, or (better) as 00:00 on the 21st, and then comes 00:01 (of course NOT 24:01!) on the 21st.

(dismounts soap-box and rides off on his hobby-horse into the night, or would that be the mid-day sun?)


LondonBuck
Chelsea Transfer Target


Jul 22, 2012, 12:16 AM

Posts: 4028
Location: East London
Team(s): AFC Telford United, Witham Town, Folkestone Invicta, Gillingham, Woking

Post #2 of 20 (1752 views)
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Re: [MunichMike] am/pm versus 24-hour clock [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


In Reply To
A beautiful illustration of a pet peeve of mine is visible on the forum at this moment.

Under "Other sports" on the main index, the newest entry is listed as 11:39 am on 21 July
But the "Other sports" index itself gives the latest as 12:33 am on 21 July

Both these entries do exist, and there must be some strange programming going on here, but the main point is:
The am/pm system is unworkable! No-one knows for certain what "12:33 am" means, or is going to be interpreted as!

Just suppose an important transaction (eg. handing over ransome money) has been set for 12:30 am on the 21st.
Some will think "12:30 is just after midnight", and so will turn up after midnight on the 21st, but this is of course now the 22nd.
Others will think "12:30 am is an hour later than 11:30 am", and will turn up just after noon.
Still others will think "12:30 am on the 21st follows 12:00 pm on the 20th" and will turn up in the early hours of the 21st. This weird-sounding logic is formally correct, but who knows whether those expecting to receive the money were thinking this way?

So, even if you are never involved in a ransome, please help stamp out this archaic and troublesome system. Use a 24-hour clock!

After 23:59 on the 20th comes one moment which can either be described as 24:00 on the 20th, or (better) as 00:00 on the 21st, and then comes 00:01 (of course NOT 24:01!) on the 21st.

(dismounts soap-box and rides off on his hobby-horse into the night, or would that be the mid-day sun?)

I advise you not to look at the Barkingside FC website then, where it says their next friendly is kicking off on Tuesday at 0730pm!! Crazy

I always use the 24hr clock but detest the use of 2400hrs for midnight! My watch says 0000 so 0000 it is!



643 GROUNDS - Milton Keynes Robins (61/92)
582 WETHERSPOONS - Lytham
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Andrelux
First Team Regular

Jul 22, 2012, 2:17 PM

Posts: 1213
Location: Luxembourg
Team(s): Brentford (for my sins - obviously done something really bad in a past life

Post #3 of 20 (1722 views)
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Re: [MunichMike] am/pm versus 24-hour clock [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

eg. handing over ransome money)

Don't know why you'd want to buy a combine harvester from Ipswich in the witching hours anyway Wink.

There are many things to be peeved about, but this isn't one of them. As I write this, it is just after 3 pm (or 15:00), according to my PC and my watch. According to you, it is 2pm. If I copied it to someone in Sydney, it would be midnight, and it's mid-morning in New York.

Of course the midday/midnight 12 o'clock could cause some confusion (although it needn't).

My advice to anyone who has kidnapped an heir to a large fortune and is looking to earn a few shillings from some ransom is:

a. Ensure there are no doubts about times and places. You've cut off an ear or a finger and sent it through the post to show that you mean business, so why ruin the whole thing by showing you are unable to read the time.

b. Most importantly, don't do it. You might end up with Patty Hearst.





garethwrexy
Man City Transfer Target!

Jul 22, 2012, 2:19 PM

Posts: 9305
Location: whitford near holywell north wales
Team(s): wrexham and dulwich

Post #4 of 20 (1717 views)
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Re: [Andrelux] am/pm versus 24-hour clock [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

i use a sun dial to tell the time Cool



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Bantam Cymraeg
Chelsea Transfer Target


Jul 22, 2012, 3:25 PM

Posts: 4464
Location: Flintshire
Team(s): Bradford City

Post #5 of 20 (1704 views)
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Re: [garethwrexy] am/pm versus 24-hour clock [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

Won't have been much use this year Frown


kirby knitters
Qatar World Cup bid member!

Jul 22, 2012, 7:09 PM

Posts: 18108
Location: Kirby Muxloe
Team(s): Hinckley United FC.

Post #6 of 20 (1684 views)
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Re: [Bantam Cymraeg] am/pm versus 24-hour clock [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

See myself more British than European but tend to like the 24hour version
Captain mainwaring always made me laugh on dad's army when he cudnt work it out after Wilson used it.Sly


wishmaster3211
First Team Star


Jul 22, 2012, 9:05 PM

Posts: 2481
Location: A small town in Monmouthshire
Team(s): Calne Town, Darlington, Rosenborg, Sussex CCC, Huddersfield RL

Post #7 of 20 (1663 views)
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Re: [kirby knitters] am/pm versus 24-hour clock [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

An interesting point is when did the 24hr clock become widespread here. I work on the Railway so use it all the time. But old timetables are all written in am and pm certainly until the 60s.



"Run For the Hills Before They Burn"

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MunichMike
Junior Team Sub

Jul 22, 2012, 10:11 PM

Posts: 22
Location: Munich (if you hadn't guessed)
Team(s): Swindon, Wolves, Eintracht Frankfurt

Post #8 of 20 (1652 views)
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Re: [wishmaster3211] am/pm versus 24-hour clock [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

I worked in the airline industry from the late 60s, and there the 24-hour clock was the standard, at least in Europe. I found it so much better that I started using it privately - if someone said "We'll meet at 7:30 pm", I automatically jotted down 1930. But this certainly wasn't widespread at the time.

At the Munich Olympics in '72, some US athletes were eliminated when they turned up for heats at 4 pm, having misunderstood what 1400 meant. (I don't blame the athletes themselves. They should be able to concentrate on their sport, but what was the whole troop of accompanying officials doing there, if not to cope with this sort of thing?)
I know several Americans who still today claim not to be able to understand anything but am/pm.


wishmaster3211
First Team Star


Jul 22, 2012, 10:55 PM

Posts: 2481
Location: A small town in Monmouthshire
Team(s): Calne Town, Darlington, Rosenborg, Sussex CCC, Huddersfield RL

Post #9 of 20 (1644 views)
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Re: [MunichMike] am/pm versus 24-hour clock [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

Americans use gallons that arent the same size as ours, dont like using metric measures yet insist on spelling litres differently.Rum coves. They are i noticed still easily confused by the 24hr clock.

In the UK I think where an o'clock time is a convention its difficult to move to the 24hr clock. This is the case with ko times which are always referred to as am/pm or o'clock. I feel "o'clock" removes confusion. If unsure of whether its am or pm you are forced to ask. Though i cant imagine why anyone migbt be confused with ko times except on a particularly intensive groundhop!



"Run For the Hills Before They Burn"

Checkout my Facebook page "Proper Football Grounds"

facebook.com/paul.fergusson


stourboy
First Team Star


Jul 22, 2012, 11:14 PM

Posts: 1571
Location: Stourbridge
Team(s): Stourbridge FC, Sheffield Wednesday

Post #10 of 20 (1640 views)
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Re: [MunichMike] am/pm versus 24-hour clock [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


In Reply To
I worked in the airline industry from the late 60s, and there the 24-hour clock was the standard, at least in Europe. I found it so much better that I started using it privately - if someone said "We'll meet at 7:30 pm", I automatically jotted down 1930. But this certainly wasn't widespread at the time.

At the Munich Olympics in '72, some US athletes were eliminated when they turned up for heats at 4 pm, having misunderstood what 1400 meant. (I don't blame the athletes themselves. They should be able to concentrate on their sport, but what was the whole troop of accompanying officials doing there, if not to cope with this sort of thing?)
I know several Americans who still today claim not to be able to understand anything but am/pm.


Americans aren't exactly the brightest bunch though are they!

I wear analogue watches unless playing sport as I prefer them and they look better (I'm a nice watch collector for my sins); the digital watches I do have I generally have set to 24 hour; likewise my alarm clocks, just to avoid setting my alarm for work to 7pm instead of 7am!


UKPunk
Man City Transfer Target!

Jul 22, 2012, 11:59 PM

Posts: 11786
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Post #11 of 20 (1634 views)
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Re: [garethwrexy] am/pm versus 24-hour clock [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


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i use a sun dial to tell the time Cool

I heard it was a floodlit sundial. Cool



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Oxford Stone
Chelsea Transfer Target


Jul 23, 2012, 10:45 AM

Posts: 5526
Location: Abingdon-on-Thames
Team(s): Maidstone United

Post #12 of 20 (1611 views)
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Re: [UKPunk] am/pm versus 24-hour clock [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

The French even use the 24-hour clock conversationally - you're much more likely to hear "seize heures" than "quatre heures" or "quatre heures de l'après-midi" for tea-time.


Part-Timer
Chelsea Transfer Target

Jul 25, 2012, 11:07 AM

Posts: 4525
Location: Huntingdonshire
Team(s): Brentford, Bradford City, Peterborough United, Yaxley

Post #13 of 20 (1558 views)
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Re: [LondonBuck] am/pm versus 24-hour clock [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


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I always use the 24hr clock but detest the use of 2400hrs for midnight!


It's 12am or 12pm that bugs me. I have no idea whether someone is referring to midday or midnight when they use these.


Oxford Stone
Chelsea Transfer Target


Jul 25, 2012, 11:36 AM

Posts: 5526
Location: Abingdon-on-Thames
Team(s): Maidstone United

Post #14 of 20 (1555 views)
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Re: [Part-Timer] am/pm versus 24-hour clock [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


In Reply To

In Reply To
I always use the 24hr clock but detest the use of 2400hrs for midnight!


It's 12am or 12pm that bugs me. I have no idea whether someone is referring to midday or midnight when they use these.



Neither make sense. 12 before / after midday? 12 noon, 12 midnight. Here's a paste from wiki:

It is not always clear what times "12:00 a.m." and "12:00 p.m." denote. From the Latin words meridies (midday), ante (before) and post (after), the term ante meridiem (a.m.) means before midday and post meridiem (p.m.) means after midday. Since strictly speaking "noon" (midday) is neither before nor after itself, the terms a.m. and p.m. do not apply. However, since 12:01 p.m. is after noon, it is common to extend this usage for 12:00 p.m. to denote noon. That leaves 12:00 a.m. to be used for midnight at the beginning of the day, continuing to 12.01 a.m. that same day.


DonQuixote
Chelsea Transfer Target


Jul 25, 2012, 12:12 PM

Posts: 6017
Location: Crossrail - Zone 6
Team(s): Romford, Everton, @BrentwoodSunLge

Post #15 of 20 (1553 views)
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Re: [Oxford Stone] am/pm versus 24-hour clock [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

What about opening time?? Hic Crazy




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Mr. T
Chelsea Transfer Target


Jul 25, 2012, 1:04 PM

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Post #16 of 20 (1540 views)
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Re: [Oxford Stone] am/pm versus 24-hour clock [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

Noon according to GMT or BST? Wink


KnowYourMarket
Man City Transfer Target!


Jul 30, 2012, 3:15 PM

Posts: 10969
Location: Longton, Stoke-on-Trent - Ar Bay a Brummie
Team(s): WBA, FC Saarbruecken, Brierley Hill Alliance (RIP)

Post #17 of 20 (1454 views)
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Re: [Oxford Stone] am/pm versus 24-hour clock [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


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The French even use the 24-hour clock conversationally - you're much more likely to hear "seize heures" than "quatre heures" or "quatre heures de l'après-midi" for tea-time.


French males also kiss when they meet, so I think a French lead is questionable.

I'm sure we're all intelligent enough to understand am/pm and the 24hr clock.



Last ground visited(update requested by Spud): Wellington . New grounds 18/19: 38


Oxford Stone
Chelsea Transfer Target


Jul 30, 2012, 3:37 PM

Posts: 5526
Location: Abingdon-on-Thames
Team(s): Maidstone United

Post #18 of 20 (1449 views)
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Re: [KnowYourMarket] am/pm versus 24-hour clock [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

"We" meaning the population at large, or the (probably, allegedly) more intelligent but also considerably more nerdy-than-average Non-League Forum user?

Oh and don't get me started on people who say things like "7pm in the evening". Often the same people who say "myself" when they mean "me", trying to sound intelligent but just sounding self-important and thick.


mr creosote
Chelsea Transfer Target


Jul 31, 2012, 12:44 PM

Posts: 3996
Location: Suffolk/Essex/Cambs border - work it out!
Team(s): Grays Athletic, Haverhill Rovers

Post #19 of 20 (1419 views)
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Re: [Oxford Stone] am/pm versus 24-hour clock [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

"4 am in the morning, carried away by a moonlight shadow". Moonlight Shadow by Mike Oldfield. Aaaarggghhh!!!


DonQuixote
Chelsea Transfer Target


Jul 31, 2012, 1:12 PM

Posts: 6017
Location: Crossrail - Zone 6
Team(s): Romford, Everton, @BrentwoodSunLge

Post #20 of 20 (1413 views)
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Re: [mr creosote] am/pm versus 24-hour clock [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

Smile That song will be in my head all day now....

12 noon always gets me...How many noons are there???
Hasn't Jupiter got a few? Crazy




FA Vase semi programme wanted: 2001 Taunton v Clitheroe.


 
 


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