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THE Rangers FC

 
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garethwrexy
Chelsea Transfer Target

Jul 12, 2012, 1:16 PM

Posts: 3424
Location: whitford near holywell north wales
Team(s): wrexham and dulwich

Post #476 of 1118 (1777 views)
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Re: [A.G.Ricer] THE Rangers FC [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately
whats the latest news ?



wrexham fc fa trophy winners 2013 !


ColtheJock
Youth Team Regular

Jul 12, 2012, 2:46 PM

Posts: 245
Location: Thamesmead
Team(s): Thamesmead Town

Post #477 of 1118 (1721 views)
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Re: [A.G.Ricer] THE Rangers FC [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately
How about Red White & Blue FC Cool

Colin.

www.thamesmeadtownfc.co.uk



Colin M


007Dale
Youth Team Regular

Jul 12, 2012, 3:36 PM

Posts: 197
Location:
Team(s): St Albans City

Post #478 of 1118 (1698 views)
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Re: [ColtheJock] THE Rangers FC [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately
I have a horrible feeling we haven't heard the last of Rangers being admitted to the SPL. It seems deliberate not to nominate a replacement club and very easy to blame the SFL for not accepting Newco into Div One. SPL clubs can claim they did the right thing originally but SFL clubs are being unreasonable in not letting them in one and thus for the sake of the game they've let them back in.

Or perhaps it's just me that doesnt have faith in the SPL clubs maintaining their fair play stance :)


cool_hand_luke
Youth Team Sub

Jul 12, 2012, 5:05 PM

Posts: 172
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Post #479 of 1118 (1645 views)
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Re: [garethwrexy] THE Rangers FC [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately
In Reply To
whats the latest news ?
From what i'm reading SLF1 will be voting 17-1 AGAINST rangers joining their division. however, the SFA has stated that they may overule this vote and put them into SLF1 regardless. if this does not happen then rangers, instead of going into Div 3, may suspend themselves for a year and then return to the new Scottish format of SPL2. all hearsay and conjecture obviously. there is another vote tomorrow over who will get rangers place in the SPL, Dundee or Dunfermline.


cool_hand_luke
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Jul 12, 2012, 5:10 PM

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Post #480 of 1118 (1642 views)
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Re: [cool_hand_luke] THE Rangers FC [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately
Also the appeal outcome of the BTC (big tax case) has not yet been announced which, if ranger lose, could see them stripped of titles including some of there infamous 9 in a row, due to dual contracts being used by the club. what a mess.....

From memory, David Murray once said in relation to Celtics title challenges during this period, 'For every £5 Celtic spend we will spend £10'. Oh my..........


Unicorn
Reserve Team Star

Jul 12, 2012, 5:31 PM

Posts: 913
Location: Kent
Team(s): Arsenal and Kent League

Post #481 of 1118 (1617 views)
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Re: [cool_hand_luke] THE Rangers FC [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately
In Reply To
In Reply To
whats the latest news ?
From what i'm reading SLF1 will be voting 17-1 AGAINST rangers joining their division. however, the SFA has stated that they may overule this vote and put them into SLF1 regardless. if this does not happen then rangers, instead of going into Div 3, may suspend themselves for a year and then return to the new Scottish format of SPL2. all hearsay and conjecture obviously. there is another vote tomorrow over who will get rangers place in the SPL, Dundee or Dunfermline.
Where does 17-1 come from? There are only 10 clubs in the division.
Anyway the whole league apart from those effected have to vote not just division one.



Ballboy and water carrier.


cool_hand_luke
Youth Team Sub

Jul 12, 2012, 5:41 PM

Posts: 172
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Post #482 of 1118 (1607 views)
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Re: [Unicorn] THE Rangers FC [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately
In Reply To
In Reply To
In Reply To
whats the latest news ?
From what i'm reading SLF1 will be voting 17-1 AGAINST rangers joining their division. however, the SFA has stated that they may overule this vote and put them into SLF1 regardless. if this does not happen then rangers, instead of going into Div 3, may suspend themselves for a year and then return to the new Scottish format of SPL2. all hearsay and conjecture obviously. there is another vote tomorrow over who will get rangers place in the SPL, Dundee or Dunfermline.
Where does 17-1 come from? There are only 10 clubs in the division.
Anyway the whole league apart from those effected have to vote not just division one.
ALL 30 SFL clubs have a vote. Sorry if I confused you.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/.../0/football/18813407


hawkwind
First Team Regular

Jul 12, 2012, 6:34 PM

Posts: 1277
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Post #483 of 1118 (1564 views)
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Re: [garethwrexy] THE Rangers FC [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately
In Reply To
whats the latest news ?
Three items today that I'd recommend reading. There are probably a number of others but unfortunately I cannot unearth everything - hopefully you might discover something for us but I will give you one clue for looking. The longer this story has gone on the less trustful I have become of MSM in general. Thankfully the odd journalist is reporting openly (well done Channel 4's Alex Thomson and Scottish TV's Grant Russell). There is only one natural conclusion to be drawn from the verbatim document sent to the SFL clubs ahead of tomorrow's vote so why have most MSM preferred to comment rather than publish? Read the document carefully. (1) There is a clear inference that if Rangers are voted into SFL3 that the SFA and SPL will attempt to place them in the SPL; (2) The suggested reforms are in no way guaranteed. In any case if these reforms were in the best interests of the Scottish game the SFA would be keen to implement them regardless of where the SFL clubs placed Rangers tomorrow. The whole thing stinks. If the SFA and SPL ignore the vote tomorrow then any remaining credibility that they have will be lost.

http://sport.stv.tv/...into-first-division/

http://www.clydefc.co.uk/statement.html

http://www.peterheadfc.com/...6-pfc-club-statement


Unicorn
Reserve Team Star

Jul 12, 2012, 6:35 PM

Posts: 913
Location: Kent
Team(s): Arsenal and Kent League

Post #484 of 1118 (1564 views)
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Re: [cool_hand_luke] THE Rangers FC [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately
It certainly seems that resolution one to admit the newco into the SFL with be carried easily.
Resolution 2 to to allow the board to place the newco in division one if they can get certain concessions will be rejected quite heavily.
Resolution three just seems to say we will agree to the SPL deciding who gets the club 12 spot. So i guess that with be passed easily.
Most statements i have read seem to acknowledge that the financial implication of their vote will not be good but they are prepared to just take that on the chin.
That of course makes them champions of integrity and may spark a new order in a Scottish football or it might make them the people who destroyed it.
Only time will tell.
I would say in 5 years the benefits or not of all this will be apparent.
But in five years Scotland may be a completely foreign country. Who knows.



Ballboy and water carrier.


leohoenig
Administrator

Jul 12, 2012, 6:36 PM

Posts: 7567
Location: Outer Cheltenhamshire
Team(s): Cheltenham Town

Post #485 of 1118 (1559 views)
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Re: [cool_hand_luke] THE Rangers FC [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately
In Reply To
Also the appeal outcome of the BTC (big tax case) has not yet been announced which, if ranger lose, could see them stripped of titles including some of there infamous 9 in a row, due to dual contracts being used by the club. what a mess.....

From memory, David Murray once said in relation to Celtics title challenges during this period, 'For every £5 Celtic spend we will spend £10'. Oh my..........
The big tax case is not about dual contracts, but about whether the form of contract used was a legal way of avoiding taxes. If dual contracts were used as a method of not telling the Scottish FA about payments to players, then this could have footballing repercussions anyway. If dual contracts were used as a method of not telling the revenue about payments, then it is fraud (a criminal offence).

The open question when the big tax case finally gets ruled upon, is are there any other clubs that tried to use this device to reduce tax liabilities? If so, then it would be wise for them to put their hands up and try to sort out the problems with HMRC, rather than to wait for it to be noticed.

It is worth remembering that a few months back, before the scale of Rangers indebtedness became apparent, they were trying to get the powers that be to go easy on the big tax case, so as it did not drop them into bankruptcy.



Fat AND Pompous.
I was going to list all my grounds for the season, but the moderator said five lines only.
Now blogging at www.leohoenig.com


cool_hand_luke
Youth Team Sub

Jul 12, 2012, 7:01 PM

Posts: 172
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Post #486 of 1118 (1522 views)
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Re: [leohoenig] THE Rangers FC [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately
The BTC has been ruled upon. Rangers are now awaiting the decision of their appeal against HMRC.


leohoenig
Administrator

Jul 12, 2012, 7:12 PM

Posts: 7567
Location: Outer Cheltenhamshire
Team(s): Cheltenham Town

Post #487 of 1118 (1507 views)
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Re: [cool_hand_luke] THE Rangers FC [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately
In Reply To
The BTC has been ruled upon. Rangers are now awaiting the decision of their appeal against HMRC.
Do you have a link, I was searching last week and could not find anything.
I take it Rangers lost the case.



Fat AND Pompous.
I was going to list all my grounds for the season, but the moderator said five lines only.
Now blogging at www.leohoenig.com


cool_hand_luke
Youth Team Sub

Jul 12, 2012, 7:30 PM

Posts: 172
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Post #488 of 1118 (1485 views)
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Re: [leohoenig] THE Rangers FC [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately
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In Reply To
The BTC has been ruled upon. Rangers are now awaiting the decision of their appeal against HMRC.
Do you have a link, I was searching last week and could not find anything.
I take it Rangers lost the case.
No. The appeal decision has not been revealed. Nobody knows why.


wishmaster3211
First Team Regular


Jul 12, 2012, 7:31 PM

Posts: 1367
Location: A small town in north Wiltshire.
Team(s): Calne Town, Darlington, Hibernian, Rosenborg, Sussex CCC, Wiltshire CCC

Post #489 of 1118 (1483 views)
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Re: [leohoenig] THE Rangers FC [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately
I like Hawkwinds quote about "Reporting Openly"....Sky (understandably) and the BBC (much less so) are still blandly carrying quotes from SPL figures about some sort of Armageddon happening without any opposing views, which makes the general public see the SFL clubs that are against Rangers look like they are acting out of spite.

looking at the mess Sevco are in, I would ask a few other searching questions such as : If you put them in SFL1 how are you planning on ensuring they dont go down?



"You can't score runs in the Pavilion, you've got to stay in and grind them down"

Checkout my Facebook page "Proper Football Grounds"

facebook.com/paul.fergusson


cool_hand_luke
Youth Team Sub

Jul 12, 2012, 7:35 PM

Posts: 172
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Post #490 of 1118 (1473 views)
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Re: [leohoenig] THE Rangers FC [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately
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The BTC has been ruled upon. Rangers are now awaiting the decision of their appeal against HMRC.
Do you have a link, I was searching last week and could not find anything.
I take it Rangers lost the case.
There is much in here regarding this. The blogger is unknown but supposedly works inside or has an informant inside HMRC.

http://rangerstaxcase.wordpress.com/


Unicorn
Reserve Team Star

Jul 12, 2012, 7:53 PM

Posts: 913
Location: Kent
Team(s): Arsenal and Kent League

Post #491 of 1118 (1453 views)
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Re: [wishmaster3211] THE Rangers FC [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately
In Reply To
I like Hawkwinds quote about "Reporting Openly"....Sky (understandably) and the BBC (much less so) are still blandly carrying quotes from SPL figures about some sort of Armageddon happening without any opposing views, which makes the general public see the SFL clubs that are against Rangers look like they are acting out of spite.

looking at the mess Sevco are in, I would ask a few other searching questions such as : If you put them in SFL1 how are you planning on ensuring they dont go down?
But are there opposing views.
Most SFL chairman are saying that the clubs will take a big hit but are voting according to their conscience.
That does not mean they think any different to the people being put on Sky.
However as you say there must now be doubts that the newco could even compete at division one level.



Ballboy and water carrier.


leohoenig
Administrator

Jul 12, 2012, 8:03 PM

Posts: 7567
Location: Outer Cheltenhamshire
Team(s): Cheltenham Town

Post #492 of 1118 (1437 views)
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Re: [cool_hand_luke] THE Rangers FC [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately
Thanks Luke, I had seen this blog before, and as you say, it isvery informative, even if I have not had time to read it all. A recent blog says "I expect that when the First Tier Tribunal (Tax) returns with its findings in Rangers’ appeal of the Big Tax Case, that use of an illegal tax strategy will be added to the list of offences. If found to be using the EBT scheme illegally, it will prove that Rangers obtained the benefit of paying its players with money it did not have". The only thing that can be said in Rangers defence, (and the defence of any other clubs that have used EBT) was they did not know or believe it to be illegal at the time.

If EBT looked so clever, I would have expected other clubs to have tried it as well, more so in England than in Scotland



Fat AND Pompous.
I was going to list all my grounds for the season, but the moderator said five lines only.
Now blogging at www.leohoenig.com


cool_hand_luke
Youth Team Sub

Jul 12, 2012, 8:16 PM

Posts: 172
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Post #493 of 1118 (1421 views)
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Re: [leohoenig] THE Rangers FC [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately
Celtic used an EBT for Junihno. Arsenal used them and had to pay. An EBT is not illegal. The illegal bit comes in the way it is administrated. No problem with the link, as you say very informative.


wishmaster3211
First Team Regular


Jul 12, 2012, 8:48 PM

Posts: 1367
Location: A small town in north Wiltshire.
Team(s): Calne Town, Darlington, Hibernian, Rosenborg, Sussex CCC, Wiltshire CCC

Post #494 of 1118 (1391 views)
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Re: [Unicorn] THE Rangers FC [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately
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In Reply To
I like Hawkwinds quote about "Reporting Openly"....Sky (understandably) and the BBC (much less so) are still blandly carrying quotes from SPL figures about some sort of Armageddon happening without any opposing views, which makes the general public see the SFL clubs that are against Rangers look like they are acting out of spite.

looking at the mess Sevco are in, I would ask a few other searching questions such as : If you put them in SFL1 how are you planning on ensuring they dont go down?
But are there opposing views.
Most SFL chairman are saying that the clubs will take a big hit but are voting according to their conscience.
That does not mean they think any different to the people being put on Sky.
However as you say there must now be doubts that the newco could even compete at division one level.
Absolutely there are. Several are to be found on links earlier in this thread. I don't think people dispute that there will be financial pain, however i suspect from what i have read this is mostly to Clubs in the current SPL not the lower reaches of the SFL, and the hyperbole being used together with the huge figures thrown about is definitely disputed.

Also Sky don't even point out to viewers that there is no need to hang Sevco's fate and restructuring together in the vote, though I suppose that's understandable. Frankly Sky should be forced to have a rolling statement whenever they discuss Rangers that they have a financial stake in it all, just like the Times has to when talking about NewsCorp Companies.



"You can't score runs in the Pavilion, you've got to stay in and grind them down"

Checkout my Facebook page "Proper Football Grounds"

facebook.com/paul.fergusson


Unicorn
Reserve Team Star

Jul 12, 2012, 8:58 PM

Posts: 913
Location: Kent
Team(s): Arsenal and Kent League

Post #495 of 1118 (1377 views)
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Re: [wishmaster3211] THE Rangers FC [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately
OK.
You think people at the SFA and SPL are going over to top with the potential financial loss.
So why do you think they would do that?
Do you think its just to keep Rangers close to getting back to the SPL?
If so why would they want to do that?
The only reason i can think of is that they think the figures are right.
Do you think there is another reason?



Ballboy and water carrier.


wishmaster3211
First Team Regular


Jul 12, 2012, 9:17 PM

Posts: 1367
Location: A small town in north Wiltshire.
Team(s): Calne Town, Darlington, Hibernian, Rosenborg, Sussex CCC, Wiltshire CCC

Post #496 of 1118 (1355 views)
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Re: [Unicorn] THE Rangers FC [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately
Im confident the figures are made up and wouldnt stand scrutiny. Too many assumptions and unknowns to be at all accurate. Yes the Spl will lose out bigtime and spl clubs will be in trouble. Vested interests is all it is. It doesnt threaten Scottish Football. just the spl.



"You can't score runs in the Pavilion, you've got to stay in and grind them down"

Checkout my Facebook page "Proper Football Grounds"

facebook.com/paul.fergusson


Unicorn
Reserve Team Star

Jul 12, 2012, 9:28 PM

Posts: 913
Location: Kent
Team(s): Arsenal and Kent League

Post #497 of 1118 (1338 views)
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Re: [wishmaster3211] THE Rangers FC [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately
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Im confident the figures are made up and wouldnt stand scrutiny. Too many assumptions and unknowns to be at all accurate. Yes the Spl will lose out bigtime and spl clubs will be in trouble. Vested interests is all it is. It doesnt threaten Scottish Football. just the spl.
You say the figures are made up but at the same time say the SPL will lose out big time.
You say SPL clubs will be in trouble.
Then you say its vested interests.
Well of course it is. They don't want to be in big trouble.



Ballboy and water carrier.

(This post was edited by Unicorn on Jul 12, 2012, 9:30 PM)


Richard Watts
Youth Team Star

Jul 12, 2012, 9:50 PM

Posts: 371
Location: South London
Team(s): Dulwich Hamlet FC, Surrey CCC

Post #498 of 1118 (1307 views)
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Re: [Unicorn] THE Rangers FC [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately
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OK.
You think people at the SFA and SPL are going over to top with the potential financial loss.
So why do you think they would do that?
Do you think its just to keep Rangers close to getting back to the SPL?
If so why would they want to do that?
The only reason i can think of is that they think the figures are right.
Do you think there is another reason?
I suspect that a lot of the people at the SFA, or officials of smaller clubs, are Rangers "supporters"; just as a lot of people who work in lower levels of English football will have sympathies for various big Premier League clubs. For instance, my own club's Secterary is a Chelsea fan, while the owner is a Manchester United fan. As there are two clubs far bigger than all the others in Scottish football I suspect there are quite a lot of "armchair" Rangers supporters in positions of influence.


cool_hand_luke
Youth Team Sub

Jul 13, 2012, 7:06 AM

Posts: 172
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Post #499 of 1118 (1198 views)
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Re: [Richard Watts] THE Rangers FC [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately
Clubs in the SPL may find themselves in trouble but from reading their resolutions to this problem they would have no problem in selling a player or two.


Unicorn
Reserve Team Star

Jul 13, 2012, 7:20 AM

Posts: 913
Location: Kent
Team(s): Arsenal and Kent League

Post #500 of 1118 (1191 views)
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Re: [cool_hand_luke] THE Rangers FC [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately
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Clubs in the SPL may find themselves in trouble but from reading their resolutions to this problem they would have no problem in selling a player or two.
Exactly correct.
That becomes the solution and also becomes the start of the problem.



Ballboy and water carrier.

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