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Scottish Cup 12-13

crankie2
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Jun 15, 2012, 12:47 PM

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Scottish Cup 12-13	Can't Post or Reply Privately

top source confirms Scottish Cup PRE-LIM of two ties ( entry 84 compared to 81 last time), probably August 4.

this comes about because the new SFA cup system gives byes automatically to HFL and EoS winners, otherwise a simple draw of 20 rd 1 ties would have left the usual 64 at rd 2 (16 ties, 32 byes).

An entry of 84 assumes GRETNA (2008) are in ... and rd 1 (Aug 25) will be 18 ties (17 last time).

PaulC
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Jun 15, 2012, 1:24 PM

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Re: [crankie2] Scottish Cup 12-13 [In reply to]	Can't Post or Reply Privately

Does it?

Aren't the three additional entries Formartine, Turriff and Stirling University? The UNi get bye to R2.

LeedsPhil
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Jun 15, 2012, 1:50 PM

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Re: [PaulC] Scottish Cup 12-13 [In reply to]	Can't Post or Reply Privately

There are currently 38 teams who enter at the first stage, without even counting Gretna 2008.
There needs to be 36 teams in R1.
So 34 begin in R1, + the other 4 play two Prelim ties => 2 winners => 36 in R1.

If Gretna 2008 are also admitted, that would make 39, so :
33 would begin in R1, + the other 6 would play three Prelim ties => 3 winners => 36 in R1.

I had also read postings elsewhere stating that the Prelim Round will be 4th August, but nothing "official" yet.

SCOTTISH F.A. CUP

(Preliminary Round � date as yet unknown - possibly 4th August) & First Round Sat 25th August 2012
First Round = 36 teams, 18 ties. Either 38 or 39 entrants foreseen.
Preliminary Round as necessary to get down to 36.

Highland League SFA members (except champs & runner-up)
+ East Of Scotland League SFA members (except champs)
+ South of Scotland League SFA members (except champs)
+ champs of Juniors North, West, & East + Juniors Cup winners
+ the 4 �historic� SFA members.
Nairn County (Highland League)
Inverurie Loco works (Highland League)
Buckie Thistle (Highland League)
Fraserburgh (Highland League)
Deveronvale (Highland League)
Wick Academy (Highland League)
Keith (Highland League)
Clachnacuddin (Highland League)
Lossiemouth (Highland League)
Formartine United (Highland League)
Huntly (Highland League)
Turriff United (Highland League)
Rothes (Highland League)
Brora Rangers (Highland League)
Fort William (Highland League)
Spartans (East of Scotland League)
Whitehill Welfare (East of Scotland League)
Edinburgh University (East of Scotland League)
Edinburgh City (East of Scotland League)
Gretna 2008 if admitted to SFA by June (East of Scotland League)
Civil Service Strollers (East of Scotland League)
Vale of Leithen (East of Scotland League)
Preston Athletic (East of Scotland League)
Selkirk (East of Scotland League)
Gala Fairydean (East of Scotland League)
Coldstream (East of Scotland League)
Hawick Royal Albert (East of Scotland League)
Threave Rovers (South of Scotland League)
St Cuthbert�s (South of Scotland League)
Newton Stewart (South of Scotland League)
Wigtown (South of Scotland League)
Burntisland Shipyard (historic SFA member � amateur leagues) - now East Of Scotland League
Golspie Sutherland (historic SFA member � amateur leagues)
Glasgow University (historic SFA member � amateur leagues)
Girvan (historic SFA member � Juniors West Central Area Div 1)
Hermes (SJFA North champions)
Bonnyrigg Rose (SJFA East champions)
Irvine Meadow (SJFA West champions)
Shotts Bon Accord (SJFA Junior Cup winners)

Second Round 29th September 2012
18 winners from R1 + the 10 SFL Div3 + champ & runner-up of Highland League + champ of East Of Scotland Lge + champ of South Of Scotland Lge) = 32 teams, 16 ties
Stirling Albion
Stranraer
Queen's Park
Elgin City
Peterhead
Annan Athletic
Berwick Rangers
Montrose
Clyde
East Stirlingshire
Forres Mechanics (Highland League champs)
Cove Rangers (Highland League runners-up)
Stirling University (East Of Scotland League champs)
Dalbeattie Star (South Of Scotland League champs)

Third Round 3rd November 2012
16 winners from R2 + the 10 SFL Div 2 clubs + the bottom 6 of SFL Div1 = 32 teams, 16 ties
Livingston
Partick Thistle
Raith Rovers
Morton
Cowdenbeath
Dumbarton
Airdrie United
Ayr United
Queen of the South
Arbroath
Stenhousemuir
East Fife
Forfar Athletic
Brechin City
Albion Rovers
Alloa Athletic

Fourth Round 1st December 2012
16 winners from R3 + the 12 SPL clubs + the top 4 of SFL Div1 = 32 teams, 16 ties
Celtic
Rangers
Motherwell
Dundee Utd
Hearts
St Johnstone
Kilmarnock
Aberdeen
St Mirren
Inverness Caley Thistle
Hibs
Ross County
Dunfermline Athletic
Dundee
Falkirk
Hamilton Academicals

5th Round: Sat 2nd Feb 2013
16 winners from R4, 8 ties

6th Round (QFs): Sat 2nd March 2013
8 teams, 4 ties

Semis: Sat & Sun 13th & 14th April 2013

Final: Sunday 26th May 2013

(This post was edited by LeedsPhil on Jun 15, 2012, 3:39 PM)

crankie2
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Jun 15, 2012, 4:42 PM

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Re: [LeedsPhil] Scottish Cup 12-13 [In reply to]	Can't Post or Reply Privately

Yes - that would mean Gretna are not in. Very curious. Unless Hampden have mis-counted. But the info I got was TWO prelim ties.

At any rate, isn`t it utterly appalling that a pre-lim has to be arranged in such a small entry to give byes to winners of fairly minor leagues. Just more evidence of utterly incompetent `management`. You look around similar countries in Europe at the moment, where EVERY CLUB has to play in the last 64.

I shudder to think what their final take on `pyramid` leagues will be.

prorege
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Jun 22, 2012, 8:43 PM

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Re: [crankie2] Scottish Cup 12-13 [In reply to]	Can't Post or Reply Privately

Now confirmed - there will be a Preliminary Round of two ties on Saturday August 4th.

Now on Twitter @Rel8 Media

crankie2
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Jun 27, 2012, 1:35 PM

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Re: [prorege] Scottish Cup 12-13 [In reply to]	Can't Post or Reply Privately

Prelim draw for Aug 4 is on Tue July 3, 1pm

LeedsPhil
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Jul 3, 2012, 2:37 PM

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Re: [crankie2] Scottish Cup 12-13 [In reply to]	Can't Post or Reply Privately

Prelim draw was delayed from the supposed 1pm "due to the busy schedule of the SFA Chief Executive".

Fort William (Highland League) v Preston Athletic (East Of Scotland)
Keith (Highland League) v St Cuthbert's Wanderers (South Of Scotland)

to be played Saturday 4th August

R1 not drawn at the same meeting !...

PaulC
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Jul 3, 2012, 2:40 PM

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Re: [LeedsPhil] Scottish Cup 12-13 [In reply to]	Can't Post or Reply Privately

In Reply To

R1 not drawn at the same meeting !...

Perhaps they are waiting to see in which league, if any, Rangers will be playing next season. Smile

(This post was edited by PaulC on Jul 3, 2012, 2:41 PM)

LeedsPhil
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Jul 3, 2012, 3:49 PM

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Re: [PaulC] Scottish Cup 12-13 [In reply to]	Can't Post or Reply Privately

In Reply To

R1 not drawn at the same meeting !...

Perhaps they are waiting to see in which league, if any, Rangers will be playing next season. Smile

Very probably. But then why did they draw the Prelim, since that too could also be affected :

Scenario 1
Only if NewCo are in the SPL or in any SFL division + are an SFA member so allowed to enter the Cup, would there be a Prelim Round of two matches from the same pool that were in the hat this afternoon. NewCo would just swap around with others already within the SFL, and the lowest of those doesn't enter until R2, so Prelim & R1 could both be drawn at the same meeting.

Scenario 2
If NewCo are placed in an SFL division but are a non-member of the SFA so not allowed to enter the Cup, there'd be a need for 19 winners to come through from R1, so the Prelim Round would be not needed and therefore shouldn't've been drawn today. i.e. these two ties might yet be scrapped !

Scenario 3
If NewCo cease to exist in football (stop cheering at the back !) and therefore somebody moves up into the SFL to replace them and also thus enters the Cup at R2 with the other SFL3 sides; that wouldn't realistically be one of the non-SFL clubs now due to start in R2 (Forres Mechanics, Cove Rangers (not yet, anyway), Stirling Uni, or Dalbeattie Star); rather, one who is now due to begin in R1 (e.g. Spartans, etc...). So those candidates who have all just been in the hat for the Prelim, shouldn't've been, so the SFA shouldn't've made today's draw if indeed waiting for the outcome of the NewCo situation.
There would still be a need for 18 winners from R1, but the starting pool would be 37 clubs.
So there would be a need for just one Prelim tie.
So there might yet be a toss of the coin at SFA HQ to decide which one of the two Prelim ties just drawn gets scrapped !

Conclusion :
If not doing the R1 draw is because the SFA is waiting for the NewCo outcome, then they shouldn't've done the Prelim Draw yet either.

Chaos...

prorege
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Jul 3, 2012, 4:57 PM

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Re: [LeedsPhil] Scottish Cup 12-13 [In reply to]	Can't Post or Reply Privately

In Reply To

R1 not drawn at the same meeting !...

Scenario 2
If NewCo are placed in an SFL division but are a non-member of the SFA so not allowed to enter the Cup, there'd be a need for 19 winners to come through from R1, so the Prelim Round would be not needed and therefore shouldn't've been drawn today. i.e. these two ties might yet be scrapped !

I don't think this can happen. The Cup competition rules seem to allow for member clubs of the SPL and SFL to play in the Scottish Cup regardless of whether they are Full or just Associate members of the SFA. Membership of the SFL would automatically confer Associate Membership of the SFA, but not necessarily Full Membership. .

Now on Twitter @Rel8 Media

LeedsPhil
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Jul 3, 2012, 5:07 PM

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Re: [prorege] Scottish Cup 12-13 [In reply to]	Can't Post or Reply Privately

As ever, prorege kindly clarifies the situation.

Thanks.

crankie2
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Jul 4, 2012, 1:15 PM

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Re: [LeedsPhil] Scottish Cup 12-13 [In reply to]	Can't Post or Reply Privately

Stuart Regan has stated that what Rangers `newco` are seeking is a `transfer` of full membership.

`Associate membership` is part of the process of applying for full membership of the SFA, every applicant serving 5 years probation ... it has nothing to do with SFL, who don`t admit non-full members. Gretna were admitted when SFA accepted a `transfer` of membership from England, as far as I am aware. All clubs in leagues approved by SFA, if not full or associate, are `registered` members.

Prorege is right about the cup rules ... which include the line `every club which played SPL last season` in the bye procedure.

For Rangers newco, the procedure outlined first by SFM, is still the most likely:

Rangers OUT of SPL, transfer of full-membership accepted, play in cup round 4.
Dundee promoted to SPL club 12 fixtures
Airdrie United (p/o loser) take Dundee fixtures (bar Ramsden Cup at Brechin)
Stranraer (p/o loser) take Airdrie Un league fixtures
Rangers take Stranraer fixtures in Div 3 ( start at Peterhead) and the Dundee Ramsden cup tie at Brechin..

crankie2
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Jul 7, 2012, 1:27 PM

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Re: [crankie2] Scottish Cup 12-13 [In reply to]	Can't Post or Reply Privately

Incredible as it may seem, the D&G Standard has published a story dated July 6 that `Gretna still hope to be in the draw for round 1 of 12-13 Scottish Cup ` ....

fitbadaft
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Jul 12, 2012, 10:17 PM

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Re: [crankie2] Scottish Cup 12-13 [In reply to]	Can't Post or Reply Privately

1st round draw is on Monday 23rd July, 2.00pm at Edinburgh Castle.

forestman
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Jul 13, 2012, 6:55 AM

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Re: [fitbadaft] Scottish Cup 12-13 [In reply to]	Can't Post or Reply Privately

Question from an ignorant someone from south of the border, If "newco" are placed in SFL3 will they retain their bye to the 4th round?. My guess given they way the SFA have gone about things is yes they will.

crankie2
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Jul 13, 2012, 12:34 PM

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Re: [forestman] Scottish Cup 12-13 [In reply to]	Can't Post or Reply Privately

Scottish Cup draw rules include the line (for bye to round 4) ... `all clubs who played SPL previous season`.

Yes, The Scottish Cup round 1 draw is on Mon July 23, at 1400 in the Queen Anne Suite of Edinburgh Castle. Hopefully, Stuart Regan will be noseying down the barrel of a big white gun an hour earlier ...

Presume some snobby person of the `Scotland for the rich ... no change` party will be in attendance for some free publicity under the tartan flag ?

Herb Alpert
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Jul 15, 2012, 12:50 AM

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Re: [crankie2] Scottish Cup 12-13 [In reply to]	Can't Post or Reply Privately

In Reply To

So Dunfermline get a bye and Ross do not by that wording. That would lead to a SPL team and Dunfermline being idle on 3rd round weekend whilst Ross are in cup action? That wording needs to be changed.

Another can of worms is if Dunfermline are in SFL1 and Newco Rangers are in SFL3 and only Rangers get the 4th round bye...... Another great big can of worms about to be opened me thnks.

zebedee
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Jul 15, 2012, 4:02 PM

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Re: [Herb Alpert] Scottish Cup 12-13 [In reply to]	Can't Post or Reply Privately

In Reply To

The top four from the previous seasons First Division also get byes to the fourth round.

1255 (146) Old Xaverians 2-0 Stoneycroft
Liverpool County Premier at St Francis Xavier College, Liverpool

crankie2
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Jul 17, 2012, 11:10 AM

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Re: [zebedee] Scottish Cup 12-13 [In reply to]	Can't Post or Reply Privately

There are quite a few people who now think Rangers won`t be in the cup this season.

They have a huge task to convince SFA to transfer the original club`s `full-membership`.

They can`t get a new membership application because they haven`t three years accounts.

It would be very easy for SFA to say .... given all the problems highlighted by their idiotic draw system ... that the BEST thing would be to exclude Rangers from the draw and get a rule change at the next agm in May.

Of course, if they can`t get the SFA membership, they can`t play in Div 3 of SFL either ... the one league with a perceived vacancy would then be the Central Juniors ... Division 2.

crankie2
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Jul 17, 2012, 12:41 PM

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Re: [crankie2] Scottish Cup 12-13 [In reply to]	Can't Post or Reply Privately

SFA have issued a statement this morning.

If Rangers play in the cup it will be as a 3rd div club, in round 2.

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