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Home: Non-League Football: Restructuring:
Somerset County League 2012-13

 



Tim
Chelsea Transfer Target


Jun 17, 2012, 9:42 PM

Posts: 3634
Location: Stourbridge
Team(s): Stourbridge, Welton Rovers, Taunton Town, Dorchester Town, Bibury

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Somerset County League 2012-13 Can't Post or Reply Privately

Constitution now on Full Time.

http://full-time.thefa.com/...lectedLeague=3894227

New Boys: Broad Plain House (Bristol & Suburban League), Middlezoy Rovers (from Taunton & District League) and Chew Magna (from Mid Somerset League). Nailsea Town Reserves and Weston St Johns Reserves arrive from the Weston super Mare & District League.

Gone: Taunton Blackbrook (homeless) and Cheddar (promoted to Western League)

Name change: Creech St Michael are now Creech North Curry.

Moved from Division 2 West to East: Long Ashton.


acmold
Man City Transfer Target!


Jun 18, 2012, 8:53 AM

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Re: [Tim] Somerset County League 2012-13 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

Seeing that Broad Plains House ex Glos Co have now gone into the Somerset League and there is always this thing that many Bristol clubs can play in both Gloucestershire and Somerset, would it help the Pyramid if a fixed line were drawn so everyone south of the line went Somerset everyone north of the line went Gloucester Co with a knock on effect that Somerset then went to the Western and Gloucester Co went to the Hellenic.



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swjoduk
Youth Team Sub

Jun 18, 2012, 12:43 PM

Posts: 119
Location: Bridgwater
Team(s): Taunton Town, Swindon Town, Westcountry football as a whole

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Re: [acmold] Somerset County League 2012-13 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

Shame about Blackbrook, I had high hopes of them reaching the Western League and forging even stronger links with Taunton Town.

All that has now disappeared, lack of grounds suitable for football at Somerset County Premier Level and Western League level in a county town such as Taunton other than Wordsworth Drive!


pitch 63
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Jun 18, 2012, 1:19 PM

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Re: [acmold] Somerset County League 2012-13 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


In Reply To
Seeing that Broad Plains House ex Glos Co have now gone into the Somerset League and there is always this thing that many Bristol clubs can play in both Gloucestershire and Somerset, would it help the Pyramid if a fixed line were drawn so everyone south of the line went Somerset everyone north of the line went Gloucester Co with a knock on effect that Somerset then went to the Western and Gloucester Co went to the Hellenic.


I understand that the two county FAs have met and have decided that any clubs being promoted from either the Bristol Premier Combination or the Bristol & Suburban League can now only be promoted to the County League of their primary registration, ie. where their pitch is situated. Thus Broad Plain House has been promoted to the Somerset County League. However, existing clubs already at Step 7 or above such as Mangotsfield United, which is 6 miles inside Gloucestershire, Bristol Manor Farm or Shirehampton can still play in the County League of their secondary county. This is part of a general transfer of club registrations between Glocestershire and Somerset, whereby 27 clubs move to Somerset and 10 to Gloucestershire. These clubs, like other clubs, can still be registered by both counties, but their primary registration is with the county in which their pitch is situated. The reason behind this is I believe the FA funding for County Development.

On a separate point, the future structure of the Hellenic and Western Leagues, it would appear that the footprint of the latter is going back to what it was in the 1950s and 1960s, with Gloucestershire clubs being put in the Western League rather than the Hellenic. Until the Hellenic started encroaching into Gloucestershire in the early 1970s, clubs such as Stonehouse, Hoffmans and Gloucester City had all competed in the Western League. The mould, which had lasted from the 1930s onwards, was cracked by Cinderford Town and Cadbury Heath joining the Midland Combination. Then a few years later the Hellenic League got in on the act and a lot of Gloucestershire teams went in it, and many still do. However, the acquisition of the Chiltonian League in 2000 moved the league back east again. I can still the logic in having all the Bristol and region clubs in one league at Steps 5 and 6, but the travelling distances for clubs from Cheltenham to the Cornish border is 300 miles there and back again. If Falmouth or Truro get back in at either Steps 5 or 6 then it becomes a round trip of 430 miles to the former. As a match official [30 years ago] I was sent to Falmouth on August Bank Holiday Saturday - the 180 miles there took around nine hours - coming back it took less than 4, including a stop at Exeter Services. Leaving home at 4.30 am and returning at 9.30 pm was a very long day to me.


Sarumio
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Jun 18, 2012, 1:25 PM

Posts: 3309
Location: Ilminster
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Re: [pitch 63] Somerset County League 2012-13 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

IMO Gloucestershire clubs should play in the Hellenic League! The Western League already covers Conrwall, Devon, Somerset, Bristol, West Dorset and the West of Wiltshire. It doesn't need Gloucestershire. The travelling is crazy for its level! Hellenic should be covering Glos, Oxfordshire, Herefordshire, Worcestershire and some North Wilts and West Berkshire teams! At the moment it covers only half of that and is shrinking by the season!


swjoduk
Youth Team Sub

Jun 18, 2012, 1:45 PM

Posts: 119
Location: Bridgwater
Team(s): Taunton Town, Swindon Town, Westcountry football as a whole

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Re: [Sarumio] Somerset County League 2012-13 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

How do you define Gloucestershire? The historic county or the current one excluding South Gloucestershire?

I think I am right in saying that Mangotsfield is in South Gloucestershire therefore a club from this area would drop/be promoted to the Hellenic in your opinion if Gloucestershire included South Gloucestershire.

Mangotsfield have always been associated with the Western League.

I think its a lot of travelling but it prepares the sides for life in the Southern League South & SW where it is even more.

I dont think there will ever be an answer for clubs in Somerset (County, not including BANES and N Somerset) and beyond to reduce their travelling.

The travelling costs at the likes of Truro and Bideford must be immense and must be a significant disadvantage to more central clubs.


acmold
Man City Transfer Target!


Jun 18, 2012, 1:52 PM

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Re: [pitch 63] Somerset County League 2012-13 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


In Reply To

On a separate point, the future structure of the Hellenic and Western Leagues, it would appear that the footprint of the latter is going back to what it was in the 1950s and 1960s, with Gloucestershire clubs being put in the Western League rather than the Hellenic. Until the Hellenic started encroaching into Gloucestershire in the early 1970s, clubs such as Stonehouse, Hoffmans and Gloucester City had all competed in the Western League. The mould, which had lasted from the 1930s onwards, was cracked by Cinderford Town and Cadbury Heath joining the Midland Combination. Then a few years later the Hellenic League got in on the act and a lot of Gloucestershire teams went in it, and many still do. However, the acquisition of the Chiltonian League in 2000 moved the league back east again. I can still the logic in having all the Bristol and region clubs in one league at Steps 5 and 6, but the travelling distances for clubs from Cheltenham to the Cornish border is 300 miles there and back again. If Falmouth or Truro get back in at either Steps 5 or 6 then it becomes a round trip of 430 miles to the former. As a match official [30 years ago] I was sent to Falmouth on August Bank Holiday Saturday - the 180 miles there took around nine hours - coming back it took less than 4, including a stop at Exeter Services. Leaving home at 4.30 am and returning at 9.30 pm was a very long day to me.



The movement of Gloucestershire clubs to the Hellenic sort of tied in with Falmouth coming into the Western League, prior to that the main Gloucestershire clubs in the Hellenic were Ciren Tn (1969) and Fairford (1970), both being nearer Oxford and Swindon than Bristol - Ciren is about two miles nearer Oxford than Bristol !. Falmouth came into the Western League in 1974, followed by Saltash in 1976, and Liskeard in 1979, this seemed to move Gloucestershire more towards the Hellenic with the likes of Forest Green coming in.

The South West is an area that is over looked and the clubs have the right to play at a decent level and they can't really be expected to travel from Cornwall to Gloucestershire to play games. Is there any scope in having the SWP at step 5 for Devon and Cornwall, the Western League for Somerset, west Dorset, Bristol, south Gloucestershire and rural Wiltshire, the Hellenic for Oxon, Swindon area, West Berks, north Gloucestershire, Hereford & Worcester, the Midland Alliance for Birmingham, the Black Country, Coventry and Staffordshire area. And the UCL having all of Leicestershire.



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acmold
Man City Transfer Target!


Jun 18, 2012, 1:58 PM

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Re: [swjoduk] Somerset County League 2012-13 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


In Reply To
How do you define Gloucestershire? The historic county or the current one excluding South Gloucestershire?

I think I am right in saying that Mangotsfield is in South Gloucestershire therefore a club from this area would drop/be promoted to the Hellenic in your opinion if Gloucestershire included South Gloucestershire.

Mangotsfield have always been associated with the Western League.

I think its a lot of travelling but it prepares the sides for life in the Southern League South & SW where it is even more.

I dont think there will ever be an answer for clubs in Somerset (County, not including BANES and N Somerset) and beyond to reduce their travelling.

The travelling costs at the likes of Truro and Bideford must be immense and must be a significant disadvantage to more central clubs.



I thought Gloucestershire is split north and south at Thornbury, the south bit around Bristol is the grey area but the early post did define it well in terms of what leagues clubs now have to play in at step 7. I presume at the end of the day "south Gloucestershire" is the area that could go either way, but I still think north Gloucestershire is better suited for the Hellenic, and will be if more SWP clubs come through from step 6.



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wishmaster3211
First Team Regular


Jun 18, 2012, 2:39 PM

Posts: 1335
Location: A small town in north Wiltshire.
Team(s): Calne Town, Darlington, Hibernian, Rosenborg, Sussex CCC, Wiltshire CCC

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Re: [acmold] Somerset County League 2012-13 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

North of the River is Gloucestershire, South of it is Somerset, broadly speaking. Though the waters get muddied around Bath (sorry for the pun there).

Bristol City have a lot of Somerset fans. Somerset used to have a County ground South of the River in Bristol.

I am no respecter of modern artificial County boundaries, less still invented counties like BANES that nobody wants! Proud to have ticked Dorset to Step 6 and not included Bournemouth in it!!

Joking aside, that post above is most instructive to me, as in most cases local county FA's are quite a good indicator of where the true County boundaries lay, but in Bristol/ Bath it seemed to be a right dogs dinner and I had always wondered how on earth all the Clubs were affiliated.

Now can we work out how to get Swindon out of Wiltshire?Tongue

Oh and some excellent points are made here about travelling and league footprints. I hadnt really thought about the Hellenic structure that way but is a good way of limiting travel North/South. I think they alienated the Western Clubs when they took on those Chiltonian sides. I mean, I wont even travel there from Calne, can't imagine people from Ross or Cheltenham relishing midweek trips after work to High Wycombe.



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(This post was edited by wishmaster3211 on Jun 18, 2012, 2:43 PM)


Jim Cunneen
Junior Team Sub


Jun 18, 2012, 3:08 PM

Posts: 20
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Post #10 of 16 (806 views)
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Re: [swjoduk] Somerset County League 2012-13 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


In Reply To
How do you define Gloucestershire? The historic county or the current one excluding South Gloucestershire?

I think I am right in saying that Mangotsfield is in South Gloucestershire therefore a club from this area would drop/be promoted to the Hellenic in your opinion if Gloucestershire included South Gloucestershire.

Mangotsfield have always been associated with the Western League.

I think its a lot of travelling but it prepares the sides for life in the Southern League South & SW where it is even more.

Except we at Shortwood worked it out and we actually travel less in the South and South West than we did in the Hellenic...

Again we come back to the old age problem of life out of the South East... Compare the Hellenic league / Western League to the EssexSenior for example... both step 5 leagues...



Turbine View
Junior Team Sub

Jun 18, 2012, 4:32 PM

Posts: 22
Location: Cashes Green
Team(s): Plymouth, Shortwood Utd, FGR (in past),

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Re: [Jim Cunneen] Somerset County League 2012-13 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

Correct Jim and we could also add another Step 5 example of the Sussex County which introduces another anomoly in the different Step levels for County leagues. Glos. Co. for example at Step 7.Crazy
One more recent muddlesome feature we now have is the Somerset Prem. allowing reserve sides and the Glos. County League no longer accepting any new applicants. The Hellenic League 1 and 2 is however choc full of them. What a mess...


acmold
Man City Transfer Target!


Jun 18, 2012, 5:33 PM

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Re: [Turbine View] Somerset County League 2012-13 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


In Reply To
Correct Jim and we could also add another Step 5 example of the Sussex County which introduces another anomoly in the different Step levels for County leagues. Glos. Co. for example at Step 7.Crazy
One more recent muddlesome feature we now have is the Somerset Prem. allowing reserve sides and the Glos. County League no longer accepting any new applicants. The Hellenic League 1 and 2 is however choc full of them. What a mess...



And then there is the Wiltshire League, with it's "Oxford City Nomads" type clubs, but the North Berks and OSL don't allow Reserves, but the Reading does.



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The Moneyman
Junior Team Star


Jul 2, 2012, 9:14 PM

Posts: 57
Location: Portsmouth
Team(s): Moneyfields

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Re: [acmold] Somerset County League 2012-13 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

I think the real oddity here is that Broad Plain House and Southmead CS were both promoted from the same League, the Bristol & Surburban but one goes in at level 9 to the Somerset Co League and the other to level 7 in the Glos Co League. Broad Plain need 3 more promotiond to get to the Western 1 whilst Southmead only need 1 more promotion!


pitch 63
Reserve Team Regular

Jul 3, 2012, 6:41 AM

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Re: [The Moneyman] Somerset County League 2012-13 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


In Reply To
I think the real oddity here is that Broad Plain House and Southmead CS were both promoted from the same League, the Bristol & Surburban but one goes in at level 9 to the Somerset Co League and the other to level 7 in the Glos Co League. Broad Plain need 3 more promotiond to get to the Western 1 whilst Southmead only need 1 more promotion!


Broad Plain House are classified as a Somerset club, and thus not now eligible for the Gloucestershire County League; another of the local whims where Bristol-based clubs are playing in two different counties because the county boundaries in 1908 were different from the current complex conurbation of Bristol


(This post was edited by pitch 63 on Jul 3, 2012, 6:44 AM)


swjoduk
Youth Team Sub

Jul 3, 2012, 12:50 PM

Posts: 119
Location: Bridgwater
Team(s): Taunton Town, Swindon Town, Westcountry football as a whole

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Re: [pitch 63] Somerset County League 2012-13 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

Where do Broad Plain play? Is it Hengrove/Whitchurch just off the A37?


pitch 63
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Jul 3, 2012, 2:49 PM

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Re: [swjoduk] Somerset County League 2012-13 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


In Reply To
Where do Broad Plain play? Is it Hengrove/Whitchurch just off the A37?


It's 20 years since I went there, but the FA Full Time website states -

Creswick Road
Filwood Park
Bristol
Avon
BS4 1U


which is about 1 mile off the A37 on Airport Road and off to the right.

 
 


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