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Home: Non-League Football: Restructuring:
Dampener on Handsworth's League win

 

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Jamesie
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Apr 30, 2012, 1:04 PM

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Dampener on Handsworth's League win Can't Post or

http://www.barisncel.co.uk/...atementrehandsworth/

The Baris Northern Counties East Football League has released the following statement regarding Handsworth FC.

It says: "Following the meeting of the Northern Counties East Football League Management Board on Thursday 12 April 2012 it has been confirmed that Handsworth FC had failed to comply with League Rules 2.5 and 2.6 relating to ground grading compliance provided for in the Criteria Document for the step at which the Club is playing. The Club therefore faced charges as at 31 March 2012.

"Handsworth FC was found guilty on these charges and is to be relegated at the end of the current playing season to a level to be determined by The Football Association. Handsworth FC has the right of appeal to The Football Association.

"An application to ground-share was rejected by the Board as per League Rule 2.3. 'Ground sharing is permitted but not in order to gain promotion or to avoid relegation.'

"The Northern Counties East Football League or its Officers will not be making any further comments or statements until the appeal process has been exhausted."



Just a note to anyone who is wondering, I am no longer a moderator of this forum due to current personal circumstances and work commitments. If you need help, contact leohoenig or Steve walker. Thank You.


buncranaboy
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Apr 30, 2012, 1:52 PM

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Post #2 of 29 (3358 views)
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Re: [Jamesie] Dampener on Handsworth's League win [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


In Reply To
http://www.barisncel.co.uk/...atementrehandsworth/

The Baris Northern Counties East Football League has released the following statement regarding Handsworth FC.

It says: "Following the meeting of the Northern Counties East Football League Management Board on Thursday 12 April 2012 it has been confirmed that Handsworth FC had failed to comply with League Rules 2.5 and 2.6 relating to ground grading compliance provided for in the Criteria Document for the step at which the Club is playing. The Club therefore faced charges as at 31 March 2012.

"Handsworth FC was found guilty on these charges and is to be relegated at the end of the current playing season to a level to be determined by The Football Association. Handsworth FC has the right of appeal to The Football Association.

"An application to ground-share was rejected by the Board as per League Rule 2.3. 'Ground sharing is permitted but not in order to gain promotion or to avoid relegation.'

"The Northern Counties East Football League or its Officers will not be making any further comments or statements until the appeal process has been exhausted."



The perils of annoying Charlie Big Potatoes...............


D A
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Apr 30, 2012, 1:58 PM

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Post #3 of 29 (3346 views)
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Re: [buncranaboy] Dampener on Handsworth's League win [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

   
The perils of annoying Charlie Big Potatoes...............






Bloody hell if he can do that ''Youngster'' had better be careful.



'I'm not cynical. I'm just experienced'.
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Chapeltom
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Apr 30, 2012, 2:46 PM

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Re: [D A] Dampener on Handsworth's League win [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

Champions and still probably end up relegated... ouch



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Richard Rundle
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Apr 30, 2012, 3:33 PM

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Re: [Chapeltom] Dampener on Handsworth's League win [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

You'd think some of these leagues find actually having clubs play in them so much of an inconvenience that they just love to get rid of them.


Sarumio
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Apr 30, 2012, 3:56 PM

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Post #6 of 29 (3259 views)
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Re: [Richard Rundle] Dampener on Handsworth's League win [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

We really are heading towards a system where league placings will be based more of the state of one's ground, rather than their results. Should we really be promoting/forcing rubbish football in grounds that the club's simply don't need and cannot afford to keep ammending!

IMO Handsworth should not be relegated - it just makes a farce of the actual playing of football!


Mishi
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Apr 30, 2012, 3:56 PM

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Post #7 of 29 (3258 views)
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Re: [Richard Rundle] Dampener on Handsworth's League win [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

You could also argue that they have 'cheated' their way to the title, by putting all of their financial resources into the playing side of things, rather than getting the ground up to standard, as other clubs have sensibly done...



Grounds visited: 614
Last new ground: The Spartans FC; Ainslie Park Stadium, Edinburgh, Scotland.(East of Scotland League)
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Richard Rundle
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Apr 30, 2012, 4:16 PM

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Post #8 of 29 (3244 views)
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Re: [Mishi] Dampener on Handsworth's League win [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


In Reply To
You could also argue that they have 'cheated' their way to the title, by putting all of their financial resources into the playing side of things, rather than getting the ground up to standard, as other clubs have sensibly done...


It's their money, they should be able to spend it how they like (as long as it's legal!). At Step 5/6 level, with the crowds Handsworth get, they won't have huge amounts to spend on either


robgrillo
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Apr 30, 2012, 5:33 PM

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Post #9 of 29 (3191 views)
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Re: [Richard Rundle] Dampener on Handsworth's League win [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

Rowntrees won the first division of the NCE a few years back and their prize was demotion to division 2 !
If only there was a division 2 now.............



KEIGHLEY'S SOCCER HISTORY...out now... www.robgrillo.co.uk



IAN S
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Apr 30, 2012, 5:36 PM

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Post #10 of 29 (3188 views)
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Re: [Jamesie] Dampener on Handsworth's League win [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

In Handsworths case the problem's with the distance from the pitch to the changing rooms.

Saying that the NCEL is one of those "stagnant" leagues that seems to prefer to keep clubs that have struggled for years instead of promoting more forward thinking clubs who don't have the "required number" of seats that no one will ever sit in.

Where it says the NCEL, you could insert any number of similar leagues. All under the same demands from the FA obviously.

Handsworth are in the NCEL cup final, I would be tempted not to turn up.


colpic
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Apr 30, 2012, 6:22 PM

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Post #11 of 29 (3161 views)
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Re: [IAN S] Dampener on Handsworth's League win [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

A reprieve for AppFrod?

P37 W2 D2 L33 F38 A129 Pts 8

Wouldn't last 5 mins in Scunny Div 1.


acmold
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Apr 30, 2012, 6:32 PM

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Post #12 of 29 (3155 views)
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Re: [colpic] Dampener on Handsworth's League win [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


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A reprieve for AppFrod?

P37 W2 D2 L33 F38 A129 Pts 8

Wouldn't last 5 mins in Scunny Div 1.



I really do now think there are a few teams at the bottom of some step 6 leagues that would struggle playing wise in their local leagues.

See Launton Sports who hung on in the Hellenic for a few years are now bottom of the OSL 16 points adrift, in the North Berks AFC Wallingford and Kintbury are 3rd and 4th bottom, and in the Dorset Premier League Shaftsbury are 2nd bottom.

Actually applies to step 4 as well, once a club actually goes down from step 4 they quite often they keep going down, Bracknell Town for one.



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jon b
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Apr 30, 2012, 7:14 PM

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Post #13 of 29 (3110 views)
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Re: [IAN S] Dampener on Handsworth's League win [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


In Reply To
In Handsworths case the problem's with the distance from the pitch to the changing rooms.

Saying that the NCEL is one of those "stagnant" leagues that seems to prefer to keep clubs that have struggled for years instead of promoting more forward thinking clubs who don't have the "required number" of seats that no one will ever sit in.

Where it says the NCEL, you could insert any number of similar leagues. All under the same demands from the FA obviously.

Handsworth are in the NCEL cup final, I would be tempted not to turn up.

I've great sympathy for Handsworth, but a year or two back Athersley Rec weren't allowed to join NCE Div 1 because they didn't meet the grading criteria, even though they could show they had a firm schedule of developments that would have meant they fully complied during the course of the season.

Athersley were so dis-chuffed that they didn't even apply the following season but concentrated on making absolutely sure the ground ticked all the boxes.


leohoenig
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Apr 30, 2012, 9:43 PM

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Post #14 of 29 (3017 views)
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Re: [jon b] Dampener on Handsworth's League win [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

Handsworth have not been in the NCE for very long. I know that earlier this season they had been planning to ground share in order to stay in. the league - something that appears to be allowed in some leagues at this level. But surely the rules have not changed significantly since they joined the NCE, and so they have known there was work to do to keep their placing - and this has not been done

Having said that, I still believe the ground grading demands are too high throughout the system



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I was going to list all my grounds for the season, but the moderator said five lines only.
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kivo
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Apr 30, 2012, 11:41 PM

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Post #15 of 29 (2933 views)
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Re: [leohoenig] Dampener on Handsworth's League win [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

So what league will they be in?


Loiner
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May 1, 2012, 12:00 AM

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Post #16 of 29 (2916 views)
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Re: [leohoenig] Dampener on Handsworth's League win [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

There is a lengthy statement from the Handsworth Chairman on the club website!


Jamesie
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May 1, 2012, 12:09 AM

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Post #17 of 29 (2912 views)
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Re: [Loiner] Dampener on Handsworth's League win [In reply to] Can't Post or


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There is a lengthy statement from the Handsworth Chairman on the club website!

http://www.pitchero.com/...tatement-573439.html


ladderman
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May 1, 2012, 9:49 AM

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Post #18 of 29 (2810 views)
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Re: [acmold] Dampener on Handsworth's League win [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


In Reply To

In Reply To
A reprieve for AppFrod?

P37 W2 D2 L33 F38 A129 Pts 8

Wouldn't last 5 mins in Scunny Div 1.



I really do now think there are a few teams at the bottom of some step 6 leagues that would struggle playing wise in their local leagues.

See Launton Sports who hung on in the Hellenic for a few years are now bottom of the OSL 16 points adrift, in the North Berks AFC Wallingford and Kintbury are 3rd and 4th bottom, and in the Dorset Premier League Shaftsbury are 2nd bottom.

Actually applies to step 4 as well, once a club actually goes down from step 4 they quite often they keep going down, Bracknell Town for one.


Team do lose their better players when they (finally) go down, and in the case of step 4 - 5 probably cut the wage bill as well.


chienmort
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May 1, 2012, 12:26 PM

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Post #19 of 29 (2730 views)
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Re: [leohoenig] Dampener on Handsworth's League win [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


In Reply To
Handsworth have not been in the NCE for very long. I know that earlier this season they had been planning to ground share in order to stay in. the league - something that appears to be allowed in some leagues at this level. But surely the rules have not changed significantly since they joined the NCE, and so they have known there was work to do to keep their placing - and this has not been done

Having said that, I still believe the ground grading demands are too high throughout the system


It is difficult to know where the truth lies here. The league are merely quoting rules and the club are being specific about why they were failed.

Most failed gradings are due to ignorance, failure of communication or lack of planning permission. In this case it seem like the intransigence of the league.

Handsworth may be really unlucky here as they are at step 6 and at Step 5 the gradings are supposed to be done by the FA this year. This is to ensure consistent implementation of the standards.

I know of several Step 4 clubs that would have no covered walkway and have their clubhouse/facilities some way from the pitch. It seems that the FA use a more "common sense" approach the the NECL management.



Poole Town FC - les couilles du chien


London Harrier
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May 2, 2012, 8:32 AM

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Post #20 of 29 (2480 views)
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Re: [chienmort] Dampener on Handsworth's League win [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately




I know of several Step 4 clubs that would have no covered walkway and have their clubhouse/facilities some way from the pitch. It seems that the FA use a more "common sense" approach the the NECL management.


If I recall, Waltham Abbey's clubhouse is a considerable distance from the pitch. A very considerable way.

Regarding Handsworth, this all seems a bit harsh. South Kilburn play in the Combined Counties Div 1 (Step 6) on a railed off pitch next to a leisure centre. I saw them play twice last season and couldn't see anyhting that resembled either a secure walkway (as per 1.11 of the FA ground grading doc - Cat G) or covered accommodation for 100 spectators with 50 seats (as per 2.1)

I am fairly sure these ground standards are not universal. I am fairly that in some cases they are completely unrealistic too.



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blackdouglas
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May 2, 2012, 12:59 PM

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Post #21 of 29 (2389 views)
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Re: [London Harrier] Dampener on Handsworth's League win [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


Quote
If I recall, Waltham Abbey's clubhouse is a considerable distance from the pitch. A very considerable way.


IMHO Waltham Abbey is a poor example. The Social club & bar may be a considerable distance across the car park, but the changing rooms are in the building behind the near goal and the catering for playing staff & officials is done out of the kitchen where spectators get their refreshments.




Northwood, Threave Rovers, Arsenal, Watford, Rochdale, Rangers (the real ones, NOT qpr), queen of the south and a few others.

Pyramid Allocations for the 2013/14 season as published by the FA on May 17th http://bit.ly/18QoFvt
How I would've allocated the clubs for 2013/14 http://bit.ly/OS8GoJ


London Harrier
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May 2, 2012, 1:35 PM

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Post #22 of 29 (2363 views)
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Re: [blackdouglas] Dampener on Handsworth's League win [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


In Reply To

Quote
If I recall, Waltham Abbey's clubhouse is a considerable distance from the pitch. A very considerable way.


IMHO Waltham Abbey is a poor example. The Social club & bar may be a considerable distance across the car park, but the changing rooms are in the building behind the near goal and the catering for playing staff & officials is done out of the kitchen where spectators get their refreshments.


You are quite right.

I was merely pointing out that Waltham Abbey's social clubhouse is a fair trek from the pitch, which - if I have read their statement right - was a factor in Handsworth's demotion.



Vote for your favourite football grounds at 100 British Grounds To Visit Before You Die



blackdouglas
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May 2, 2012, 2:21 PM

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Post #23 of 29 (2335 views)
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Re: [London Harrier] Dampener on Handsworth's League win [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


In Reply To

In Reply To

Quote
If I recall, Waltham Abbey's clubhouse is a considerable distance from the pitch. A very considerable way.


IMHO Waltham Abbey is a poor example. The Social club & bar may be a considerable distance across the car park, but the changing rooms are in the building behind the near goal and the catering for playing staff & officials is done out of the kitchen where spectators get their refreshments.


You are quite right.

I was merely pointing out that Waltham Abbey's social clubhouse is a fair trek from the pitch, which - if I have read their statement right - was a factor in Handsworth's demotion.



I believe the succinct phrase is in the Chairman's opening sentence of the 3rd paragraph where he states

Quote
"as most of you are fully aware, the main stumbling block with our ground is the distance from our changing rooms and clubhouse to the pitch".

There's no limit to how far your social club/bar can be from the pitch, Grade G just says on or adjacent to the ground. Ever been to Halesowen? Their bar is across the park outside the ground. The important element to the league is how far the changing rooms are from the pitch and and whether safe passage for players & officials can be guaranteed. Unfortunately nothing in life can be guaranteed and the league are being obtuse about it.



Northwood, Threave Rovers, Arsenal, Watford, Rochdale, Rangers (the real ones, NOT qpr), queen of the south and a few others.

Pyramid Allocations for the 2013/14 season as published by the FA on May 17th http://bit.ly/18QoFvt
How I would've allocated the clubs for 2013/14 http://bit.ly/OS8GoJ


kimbo_king
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May 2, 2012, 3:54 PM

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Post #24 of 29 (2292 views)
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Re: [blackdouglas] Dampener on Handsworth's League win [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

It kind of makes a mockery of the system to be honest. What a great way to discourage teams of making a go of it!

Who were they going to share with? Hallam? Sheffield? Stocksbridge?


Loiner
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May 2, 2012, 3:59 PM

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Post #25 of 29 (2285 views)
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Re: [kimbo_king] Dampener on Handsworth's League win [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


In Reply To
It kind of makes a mockery of the system to be honest. What a great way to discourage teams of making a go of it!

Who were they going to share with? Hallam? Sheffield? Stocksbridge?

Maltby.

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