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Breivik

 

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buncranaboy
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Apr 20, 2012, 11:57 PM

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Post #1 of 35 (2313 views)
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Breivik Can't Post or Reply Privately

I'm surprised he's almost passed without a mention - the current testimony is amongst the most chilling I've ever read. Should he have been "taken out" to avoid all this?

I see there are already messages of support from various nutters around the world.

Barely credible and utterly unspeakable.


Whiskey Coates
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Apr 21, 2012, 12:11 AM

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Post #2 of 35 (2311 views)
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Re: [buncranaboy] Breivik [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


In Reply To
I'm surprised he's almost passed without a mention - the current testimony is amongst the most chilling I've ever read. Should he have been "taken out" to avoid all this?
I see there are already messages of support from various nutters around the world.

Barely credible and utterly unspeakable.



The only people who would've complained would've been his far right nutter mates and the lily-livered liberals (so almost everybody).

Unfortunately he's been given a public platform on which to spew his demented rants, but at least it's not on live TV. The death penalty is not an option, unfortunately.


wishmaster3211
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Apr 21, 2012, 8:48 AM

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Post #3 of 35 (2292 views)
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Re: [Whiskey Coates] Breivik [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

Beggars belief that they deem him "sane".

I thought a test of sanity was empathy....and a trait of mass murderers the complete lack of it?

That said I dont see his testimony changes anything, nutters already held those beliefs and always will. Must be hard for the victims families but having been to Norway they probably accept it....



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garethwrexy
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Apr 21, 2012, 9:27 AM

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Post #4 of 35 (2284 views)
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Re: [buncranaboy] Breivik [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

think he needs some hard justice !



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paignton-nick
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Apr 21, 2012, 9:43 AM

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Post #5 of 35 (2280 views)
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Re: [garethwrexy] Breivik [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


In Reply To
think he needs some hard justice !


Preferably the death sentence.



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AndyE
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Apr 21, 2012, 6:28 PM

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Post #6 of 35 (2251 views)
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Re: [wishmaster3211] Breivik [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


In Reply To
Beggars belief that they deem him "sane".


At that stage he had to be declared sane or the trial wouldn't have been able to happen.

But as the trial goes on, the prosecution is likely to try and show that he is not sane. There is no life imprisonment in Norway, but there is the possibility of life detention in a secure hospital if he is found to be insane.


wishmaster3211
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Apr 21, 2012, 7:44 PM

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Post #7 of 35 (2245 views)
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Re: [AndyE] Breivik [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

Ive got to say that, having been to Norway, I am not going to criticise their ways of doing things. Personally I am uncomfortable with their legal and prison system but its probably the most relaxed, integrated and polite society i have been to so they must be doing something right!



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sandhurstbee
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Apr 23, 2012, 1:29 PM

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Post #8 of 35 (2179 views)
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Re: [wishmaster3211] Breivik [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

I read One article where Breivik alledgedly said he would do it agai in towns like Luton! - Sounds like a Defence to me...



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eesti7
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Apr 24, 2012, 10:53 PM

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Post #9 of 35 (2113 views)
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Re: [garethwrexy] Breivik [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


In Reply To
think he needs some hard justice !


An article in The Times last week suggested that the Norwegian prison system is more effective than the UK and US systems.

We lock people up for 23 hours a day, deny them priveleges and have a re-offending rate of 50-60%.

The Nowegian high security prison featured has flat screen tvs in single rooms with views of landscaped gardens, the inmates play volleyball with female prison guards, study for professions and university degrees and have access to small cottages within the grounds where they can spend the weekend with their families. The reoffending rate for that prison is 20%.

Ultimately if you're not going to hang someone or stick a bullet in the back of their head (as they still do in Belarus) you may as well treat them as human beings and not reduce yourself to their level.


UKPunk
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Apr 25, 2012, 12:11 AM

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Post #10 of 35 (2098 views)
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Re: [eesti7] Breivik [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

Firstly, a brother of a mate of mine was in and out of prison a number of times before he died of a heroin overdose and he was never kept in his cell for 23 hours. There was also TV available, albeit in a communal room. The only inmates confined to their cells were those who persistantly picked fights.

Secondly, when he was inside he was offered the opportunity to attend numerous courses and said the inmates could learn plumbing, bricklaying etc. if they wanted to.

Thirdly, how can it be right that kids who behave themselves struggle to find an apprenticeship but if they break the law they get offered one? There is a centre in Clacton where offenders go to get on courses and the like while the kids leaving the local schools find there are only a limited amount of positions for them.

It'a about time these people stopped feeling sorry for themselves and do what the majority of people do. Get off their backsides and look for work. Too many offenders think the world owes them a living. It doesn't. And it doesn't halp when do gooders feel sorry for them.

The people I feel sorry for are the innocent victims of their crimes who are most likely hard working people who have earned their possessions. Unlike the freeloading muggers, burglers etc. who just want something for nothing and destroy lives in the process.



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Isaac
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Apr 25, 2012, 8:10 AM

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Post #11 of 35 (2080 views)
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Re: [UKPunk] Breivik [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

Exactly. upon release they have a probation officer to sort them out somewhere to live and look after their every need, who says crime doesn't pay?

And I've never heard of prisoners being locked up for 23 hours a day, just a myth I suspect.


Mishi
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Apr 25, 2012, 12:48 PM

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Post #12 of 35 (2056 views)
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Re: [Isaac] Breivik [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

I'm not going to get involved in this argument really, as I've not been in prison. I know people who have, & have visited them in the past at various 'establishments'. Being banging up for 23 hours a day DOES happen to 'ordinary' prisoners, but not all the time, down to short staffing, or something like that. It can be for a few days at a time, or weeks at a time. But it does happen. I know people who have been locked up for these times, & have read it in books and articles from proper sources, though I don't have any of them to hand.

With regard to probation officers helping them get somewhere to live on release...well what do you suggest? Many will have nowhere to go to. They will either have been homeless before, in which case help with finding somewhere should be available to them, or have lost their accommodation when going to prison. Not all have homes or families to go back to.

What do you suggest? That they are kicked out of the prison gates & left to fend for themselves? Then they will be swifty back to criminal activity just to survive, & will soon be back insde, a never ending cycle. They don't get mansions, they start out in 'halfway houses', which are generally awful hostels, until they are lucky enough to get offered something basic, but better.



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Chris1963
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Apr 25, 2012, 6:23 PM

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Post #13 of 35 (2034 views)
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Re: [buncranaboy] Breivik [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

It's poignant to think that I was in Oslo exactly a month before the sad events there (see WDYG for 25th/26th June)

I think that the Norwegian government and the British newspapers have a lot to answer for. Firstly, it could be argued that as Norway is not in the EU, this creates an 'isolationist' view which spurred on Breivik. Also, more black/Asian people in Oslo (there are hardly any there) would perhaps have made Breivik more appreciative of a diverse society, as we have in London.

As for the British newspapers, they have kept going on about the supposed evils of a multicultural society, which is exactly what Breivik keeps referring to at his trial. Funny how they've gone very quiet about this now! (It should be remembered tha Breivik claims to have had contacts among the UK's far-right.)


Whiskey Coates
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Apr 25, 2012, 6:40 PM

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Post #14 of 35 (2030 views)
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Re: [Chris1963] Breivik [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


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It should be remembered tha Breivik claims to have had contacts among the UK's far-right.



But even the UK's far-right were pretty quick to distance themselves from him after his massacres.


Mishi
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Apr 25, 2012, 7:11 PM

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Post #15 of 35 (2021 views)
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Re: [Whiskey Coates] Breivik [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

Publicly yes, I'm sure they did....but privately is another matter....



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buncranaboy
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Apr 25, 2012, 7:15 PM

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Post #16 of 35 (2020 views)
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Re: [Chris1963] Breivik [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


In Reply To
I think that the Norwegian government and the British newspapers have a lot to answer for. Firstly, it could be argued that as Norway is not in the EU, this creates an 'isolationist' view which spurred on Breivik. Also, more black/Asian people in Oslo (there are hardly any there) would perhaps have made Breivik more appreciative of a diverse society, as we have in London.

Check your facts Chris. The documentary on Breivik last week, which I have followed up with my own reading as I found the stats unbelievable, showed that 28% of Oslo's population is immigrant or born to immigrants and that the growth there is the fastest of any European capital. The main immigrant groups are Pakistani and Somali and some of Oslo's less salubrious districts have an immigration population percentage of 48%. You may not have seen many at football but that doesn't mean they aren't there.............


Mishi
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Apr 25, 2012, 7:20 PM

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Post #17 of 35 (2013 views)
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Re: [buncranaboy] Breivik [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

"Check your facts Chris."

.........No, on second thoughts I'd better not say anything, he might accuse me of picking on him again! ;-)



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Whiskey Coates
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Apr 25, 2012, 7:25 PM

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Post #18 of 35 (2008 views)
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Re: [Mishi] Breivik [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


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Publicly yes, I'm sure they did....but privately is another matter....



And there's me thinking the UK's far-right were a bunch of honest, decent people Unsure


Isaac
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Apr 25, 2012, 7:41 PM

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Post #19 of 35 (2000 views)
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Re: [Mishi] Breivik [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


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Publicly yes, I'm sure they did....but privately is another matter....


I really don't think so, Breivik is clearly mad and his actions have done nothing too further any caused


Mishi
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Apr 25, 2012, 7:58 PM

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Post #20 of 35 (1990 views)
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Re: [Isaac] Breivik [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

Neither did gassing Jews, trade unionists, gays, gypsies, & others...but they admire that!



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garethwrexy
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Apr 25, 2012, 9:45 PM

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Post #21 of 35 (1974 views)
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Re: [buncranaboy] Breivik [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

think he should be shot like a dog myself !



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D A
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Apr 25, 2012, 9:48 PM

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Post #22 of 35 (1973 views)
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Re: [garethwrexy] Breivik [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


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think he should be shot like a dog myself !


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Chris1963
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Apr 26, 2012, 5:38 PM

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Post #23 of 35 (1921 views)
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Re: [buncranaboy] Breivik [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


In Reply To

In Reply To
I think that the Norwegian government and the British newspapers have a lot to answer for. Firstly, it could be argued that as Norway is not in the EU, this creates an 'isolationist' view which spurred on Breivik. Also, more black/Asian people in Oslo (there are hardly any there) would perhaps have made Breivik more appreciative of a diverse society, as we have in London.

Check your facts Chris. The documentary on Breivik last week, which I have followed up with my own reading as I found the stats unbelievable, showed that 28% of Oslo's population is immigrant or born to immigrants and that the growth there is the fastest of any European capital. The main immigrant groups are Pakistani and Somali and some of Oslo's less salubrious districts have an immigration population percentage of 48%. You may not have seen many at football but that doesn't mean they aren't there.............



I have to admit I may have been mistaken - perhaps I should have used the word 'muslim' instead of 'blacks/asians' as I haven't seen any mosques in Oslo and Breivik did make it clear that the main focus of his hatred was the Islamic religion. The irony here is that he admitted to imitating Al-Qaeda in the way he carried out his attacks (ie; two separate but near-simultaneous acts.) I am sure if there had been the number of mosques in Oslo that there are in London, Breivik would have had a more tolerant attitude towards Islam.


Whiskey Coates
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Apr 26, 2012, 7:56 PM

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Post #24 of 35 (1903 views)
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Re: [Chris1963] Breivik [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

On a side note, tens of thousands of people have gathered in Oslo in a show of solidarity to sing a song that Anders breivik said he hates.

http://m.guardian.co.uk/...rld&type=article


buncranaboy
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Apr 26, 2012, 9:08 PM

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Post #25 of 35 (1895 views)
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Re: [Chris1963] Breivik [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


In Reply To

In Reply To


I have to admit I may have been mistaken - perhaps I should have used the word 'muslim' instead of 'blacks/asians' as I haven't seen any mosques in Oslo and Breivik did make it clear that the main focus of his hatred was the Islamic religion. The irony here is that he admitted to imitating Al-Qaeda in the way he carried out his attacks (ie; two separate but near-simultaneous acts.) I am sure if there had been the number of mosques in Oslo that there are in London, Breivik would have had a more tolerant attitude towards Islam.



In 2000 there were an estimated 56,000 muslims in Norway. In 2010 the figure was 144,000 and projections based on current birth and immigration rates are 359,000 for 2030.
There are 36 mosques in Oslo alone.



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