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Home: Non-League Football Discussion: Restructuring Discussion:
National League Meeeting

 

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afcrover
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Jan 9, 2012, 3:15 PM

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National League Meeeting Can't Post or Reply Privately

If any one has any details from the recent national league meeting, please post the information in this thread.


WebGuy @ Tevie
Youth Team Regular


Jan 9, 2012, 6:10 PM

Posts: 222
Location: ...with the Tevie Boys.
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Post #2 of 197 (14143 views)
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Re: [afcrover] National League Meeeting [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

...from NCEL website.

UPDATE ON NLS STEP 5/6 REVIEW

The Football Association is now in a position to update Leagues and Clubs on the current position with regard to a review of the Step 5/6 structure of the National League System.

There was always the intention, as part of the overall restructure, to align the number of promotion places to Step 4 with the number of relegation places available.

With Step 4 now established with 6 Divisions and 12 possible relegation places, the Leagues Committee established a Review Group charged with the task of exploring the possibility of reducing the current 14 Step 5 Divisions down to 12.

A consultation process commenced in September with the Review Group meeting individually with each of the Step 5/6 competitions.

Following these meetings, it was established that there was a majority of leagues in favour of such a reorganisation taking place at Step 5.

At a meeting with all Step 5 leagues held yesterday (8 January) at Burton Albion FC the Review Group presented their current thinking.

An example of how a new structure might look was presented.

It was emphasised that the example shown included all current Step 5 clubs and did not take into account if the club fully complied with the appropriate grading criteria.

There will also be two season’s normal club movements by way of promotion and relegation to take into account. The meeting also highlighted the following:

• That every effort should be made to establish 12 Step 5 divisions each of 22 clubs.
• To be included, Clubs must achieve Ground Grading Category F, as independently verified, by 31 March 2013.
• So as to not disadvantage any club, all clubs that meet the F Grade will be included in the new structure and to facilitate this, in the first season, 2013/2014, the number of clubs in each division may vary between 22 and 25.
• By adjustments being made to the number of relegated clubs from Step 5 over the following one or two seasons, numbers would reduce to 22 clubs.

The next stage of the consultation process sees all Step 5 clubs invited to attend a series of regional meetings to consider the current situation and have any concerns explained to them.
These meetings are to take place as follows:

Sunday 15 January at the Thurrock Hotel, Aveley
Sunday 22 January at The West Riding County FA offices in Leeds
Sunday 29 January at the Leicester Marriott Hotel
Sunday 12 February at Yeovil Town FC

Based upon the feedback from both the leagues and clubs meetings the Leagues Committee will determine the way forward.

The Review Group will also be looking at Step 6 in more detail in the coming months.

Commenting on the project Mike Appleby, Leagues and Clubs Manager, emphasised that this was very much work in progress and that no final decision had been made: “There are a number of inaccurate rumours circulating at the present time and we must await the outcome of the consultation process before any final recommendation is made.

“Part of the original aims of the restructure process was to try to equalise the travelling of clubs. It is inevitable therefore that some clubs will find an increase in their travel whilst some will see a reduction.”

“The leagues themselves have asked that Step 5 and 6 be reviewed and we are following this through but I reiterate that no decision has been made and will not be made until the consultation process has been completed.”

Should any restructure take place it will take effect from season 2013/2014.

http://www.barisncel.co.uk/



WebGuy @ Tevie : http://www.teversalfc.co.uk
Tevie on Twitter : http://twitter.com/TeversalFC


bomaya
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Jan 9, 2012, 6:26 PM

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In Reply To

A consultation process commenced in September with the Review Group meeting individually with each of the Step 5/6 competitions.

Following these meetings, it was established that there was a majority of leagues in favour of such a reorganisation taking place at Step 5.


Really?


Mr. T
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Jan 9, 2012, 6:30 PM

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In Reply To
"Part of the original aims of the restructure process was to try to equalise the travelling of clubs. It is inevitable therefore that some clubs will find an increase in their travel whilst some will see a reduction."


That alone suggests that the leagues likeliest to be merged (consumed?) or demoted are the geographically smallest.


ladderman
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Jan 9, 2012, 6:47 PM

Posts: 7419
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Re: [Mr. T] National League Meeeting [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

I wonder just how many clubs will see a cut in travel. A negligible amount, I suspect.


Sarumio
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Jan 9, 2012, 6:56 PM

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In Reply To

In Reply To
"Part of the original aims of the restructure process was to try to equalise the travelling of clubs. It is inevitable therefore that some clubs will find an increase in their travel whilst some will see a reduction."


That alone suggests that the leagues likeliest to be merged (consumed?) or demoted are the geographically smallest.


Which are the two smallest - surely the UCL is not one of them is it?


SWP-Phil
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Jan 9, 2012, 7:09 PM

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Re: [Sarumio] National League Meeeting [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

A division of upto 25 clubs Shocked

I'm going for a lay-down before my blood boils !!



_______________________________________________

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For all the News on the SW Peninsula League go to : www.swpleague.co.uk


Martin9
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Jan 9, 2012, 9:29 PM

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Post #8 of 197 (13845 views)
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Re: [WebGuy @ Tevie] National League Meeeting [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


In Reply To

It was emphasised that the example shown included all current Step 5 clubs and did not take into account if the club fully complied with the appropriate grading criteria.

• So as to not disadvantage any club, all clubs that meet the F Grade will be included in the new structure and to facilitate this, in the first season, 2013/2014, the number of clubs in each division may vary between 22 and 25.


So currently if no step 5 teams are to be demoted as part of the initial re-org that would be 287 clubs spread across 12 leagues (avg 23.9 per division, minimum 22, maximum 25). First guess of how the 12 leagues would initally look on basis UCL and Sussex are the 2 that disappear as speculated elsewhere:
1) Northern (22) - 22 clubs from Northern
2) NWC (22) - 22 clubs from NWC
3) NCEL (22) - 20 clubs from NEC, 1 from MFA, 1 from UCL (gains Dunkirk and Sleaford)
4) MFA (24) - 21 clubs from MFA, 3 from UCL (gains Desborough, Long Buckby, Daventry Utd.)
5) ECO (25) - 15 clubs from ECO, 10 from UCL (gains Hunts, S Lincs and E Northants, looses NW Essex and S Suffolk)
6) Essex (25) - 18 clubs from Essex, 6 clubs from ECO, 1 from SSM (gains NW Essex and S Suffolk and St. Margaretsbury)
7) SSM (25) - 18 clubs from SSM, 7 from UCL (gains N Beds, S Northants and N Bucks, looses S&W Middlesex)
8) Hellenic (25) - 17 from Hellenic, 5 from CCO, 3 from SSM (gains S&W Middlesex and E Berkshire, looses Gloucestershire)
9) CCO (25) - 17 from CCO, 8 from Sussex (gains N&Mid Sussex, looses S&W Middlesex and E Berkshire)
10) Kent (25) - 16 from Kent, 9 from Sussex (gains E Sussex)
11) Wessex (25) - 22 from Wessex, 3 from Sussex (gains SW Sussex)
12) Western (22) - 18 from Western, 4 from Hellenic (gains Gloucestershire)

(This post was edited by Martin9 on Jan 9, 2012, 9:31 PM)


Mister TwoU
First Team Star


Jan 9, 2012, 9:37 PM

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Re: [SWP-Phil] National League Meeeting [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

There were 26 teams two seasons running in the Midland league in the late 1920's



Professional cretin.


colpic
Chelsea Transfer Target


Jan 9, 2012, 10:21 PM

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Re: [SWP-Phil] National League Meeeting [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


In Reply To
A division of upto 25 clubs Shocked

I'm going for a lay-down before my blood boils !!


Don't worry Phil. The FA are taking steps to ensure that there will be no bad weather or postponements during the transitional period so fixtures secretaries will have no logistical problems.[:|]



Where's the 'ignore this poster' button?


chienmort
First Team Sub


Jan 9, 2012, 11:22 PM

Posts: 1089
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Re: [colpic] National League Meeeting [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

The FA Spokesman on the Nonleagueshow talked of 12 regional divisions. I took it to mean that the current names may disappear altogether and a county is not a region. Essex, Kent and Sussex RIP?

The new structure will operate from 2013/2014 season and the leagues have no say in the final decision.



Poole Town FC - les couilles du chien


VP
Man City Transfer Target!


Jan 10, 2012, 12:59 AM

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In Reply To
The FA Spokesman on the Nonleagueshow talked of 12 regional divisions. I took it to mean that the current names may disappear altogether and a county is not a region. Essex, Kent and Sussex RIP?

The new structure will operate from 2013/2014 season and the leagues have no say in the final decision.


What about sponsorships? There'll be contracts that state sponsorship for x amount of seasons of a league using a certain name. If that league changes its name or the area it covers that could lead to compensation or pay offs. I suppose it's alright if the FA are willing to foot the bill though.
On the other hand, they could just get rid of two leagues without sponsors. That's two from Essex, Sussex and the North West Counties then I think.


hawkwind
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Jan 10, 2012, 1:53 AM

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Listened to Mike Appleby on the Non-League show, shame that the subject was only given nine minutes.

Learnt that staggeringly the Step 5 Leagues and clubs can voice an opinion but the Leagues Committee made up of representatives from the Steps 1 to 4 Leagues and council members from county FAs has the vote. Letting the Leagues which have the biggest fall-out of clubs decide? Crazy.

Find disappointing that, considering the Conference are known to be keen to eventually have three up three down with the Football League, the Review Group didn't propose the most logical solution of three down from each Step 4, particularly when the number of clubs that are actually relegated from Step 4 each season is well below the current theoretical twelve (6x2).

Find incredible the proposal of divisions (even on a temporary basis) with 25 clubs at Step 5.

Find incredible the notion that increasing travelling costs for many clubs is even worthy of consideration.

A workable non-disruptive solution is so simple - three relegation places from each Step 4 and two promotion places for each of the Northern, Northern Counties East, North West Counties and Midland Alliance.

(This post was edited by hawkwind on Jan 10, 2012, 2:02 AM)


forestman
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Jan 10, 2012, 6:28 AM

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Don't worry as everyone knows if the FA carry out their threat to increase all step 2 thru step 4 leagues to 24 clubs then that will mean 22 clubs promoted from step 5 thus alleviating the need for any league to be 24 or 25 clubs and only one league to have 23. LMFAO


PaulC
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Jan 10, 2012, 8:51 AM

Posts: 11694
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In Reply To
A workable non-disruptive solution is so simple - three relegation places from each Step 4 and two promotion places for each of the Northern, Northern Counties East, North West Counties and Midland Alliance.


Absolutely.

I thought all along that the 14 to 12 was designed to create some balance between the northern and southern halves of the country. It does no such thing so what on earth is the point of the change? If the concern is that there are 12 relegation places and 14 potential promotion spots then increase the relegation spots by two teams - the bottom 2 in each division plus the two worst ppg. It's hardly rocket science.

Alternatively. three down from Step 4, and promote the top (eligible) team in each Step 4 league and make up the numbers to 18 with the best 4 determined by position and ppg. I would extend eligibility for promotion to the top 5 in a league.

Your suggestion is more radical, but it is my preferred solution too.

What the FA is proposing is nonsensical and is akin to rearranging the deck chairs on the Titanic.



Mister TwoU
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Jan 10, 2012, 9:56 AM

Posts: 2492
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I think I've maybe said it before, but one very feasible way of regulating this whole north v. south divide would be to determine the number of teams in each division using a ratio based on totals of eams in each region - so if N v. S. as a whole gives a 2:3 ratio, then northern divisions would be 2/3 as populous as southern ones.

That might require divisions to have to be subdivided into conferences (again, N into two, S into three) and involve 2-way & 3-way play-offs respectvely at season's end, but it would ensure match-numbers parity across the whole also.

Of course, detail's in the fine print, but if the shape of the whole area requires (as I think likely) more than a simple N/S split into two regions, then that's easily accommodated. If for argument's sake it's decided that a five-region (500-team) split is needed, then demarcation lines between regions are massaged in order to keep the ratios 'clean'.
By this, I mean one might initially, arbitrarily decide to divide into 5 groups of assorted counties, producing a team numbers split of 80/90/100/110/120. Observing those specific figures might lead one to conclude a 'best close-fit ratio' could be 4:5:5:5:6 with just a little tweak and so redraw one's regional boundaries until they fit a 80/100/100/100/120 pattern. Thus the first region might comprise four divisions of 20 teams, the last would have six divisions and the others all five divisions.

Alternatively 5x16/5x20/5x20/5x20/5x24 might be chosen, but then, unless round-robin play is occasionally abandoned for other formats, there'd end up a vast difference in games played between the regions. Although that in itself doesn't have to be made into a serious problem.



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UKPunk
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Jan 10, 2012, 11:06 AM

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In Reply To
Listened to Mike Appleby on the Non-League show, shame that the subject was only given nine minutes.

Learnt that staggeringly the Step 5 Leagues and clubs can voice an opinion but the Leagues Committee made up of representatives from the Steps 1 to 4 Leagues and council members from county FAs has the vote. Letting the Leagues which have the biggest fall-out of clubs decide? Crazy.

Ah, that clears things up then. The step 5 leagues and clubs are allowed an opinion but no mandate to actually influence events. Not very democratic, is it? The analogy would be the step 5 peasants (as seen by the step 1-4 leagues) being led by the elite (the step 1-4 leagues) for their own good! Crazy



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acmold
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Jan 10, 2012, 11:09 AM

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In Reply To
"Part of the original aims of the restructure process was to try to equalise the travelling of clubs. It is inevitable therefore that some clubs will find an increase in their travel whilst some will see a reduction."


If this is the case why are the "rumours" saying that the Western League will gain Gloucestershire. I'm sure the north of Gloucestershire is as near Gretna as it is to Penzance, won't encourage many teams from the south west to come up. Also another rumour is that the Hellenic's footprint is moving east, which will make it bordering onto the South East, and then if we go with 4 leagues at step 5 into each step 3/4 league the Southern League footprint will be massive.


seadogfan
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Jan 10, 2012, 11:38 AM

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Re: [acmold] National League Meeeting [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

Interesting comments from Mike Amos at the Northern League

http://www.northernleague.org/...t_chairmans_blog.php

Seems Pickering may have to "move" northwards and the NCEL may gain the outposts (Holbeach, Boston and Sleaford) from Lincolnshire.


AndyE
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Jan 10, 2012, 1:08 PM

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Angus aka vienna1964 would have loved this! A 25 team division at Step 5 is a horrendous thought - no club at that level wants to play 48 games and the chances are that the fixtures will never be completed.

So that league will probably have to resort to a more complicated system. Sixteen teams twice and eight once for a 40 game season, perhaps?


Sarumio
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Jan 10, 2012, 1:50 PM

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Re: [AndyE] National League Meeeting [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

25 teams per Division? The UCL disbanded whilst the ESL survives as a county league at Step 5? Pickering to the NL? Northern UCL teams to the NCEL? The Western League to take on Gloucestershire based HL clubs? HAS THE WORLD GONE COMPLETELY BONKERS. I cannot believe we are even discussing this madness! I feel like i'm in some paralel universe. This is 10 times worse than the creation of the Kent Invicta League and I needed a lie down after that one.

Why on earth would you touch the UCL - well run league, good area covered, 2 (or 3) good feeders in place, 38 teams in membership, STABLE set of well managed clubs on the whole (only Harrowby United folding in the last 10 seasons - and not whilst they were in the league, and only Blisworth dropping down). Oh and its in the P***ing NORTH - what more do they need to do to ensure their safety at Step 5/6. WHY this league?

Who is making this thing so complicated. Which idiotic people? Stinks of 'empire protection' - someone on this steering comittee must be avid fans of the ESL, SCL or KL as the findings so far go against any kind of logic IMO. I envisage this little fat grey haired man wearing a tshirt saying i Love the ESL, holding a triangle and trying to force it through a smaller square hole screaming "it will fit".

IF it MUST be 12 Step 5 divisions (which I msut say I'm not in agreement with either) then all that needs to be done is to merge the SSML and ESL (top 11 from each division forming a new Premier Division, with the remainder spilt East and West into two Step 6 Divisions.

Then merge the SCL and KL into a similar format, with a few northern and western Sussex clubs joining the CoCo and Wessex (both of whom have room) respectively and throw in a few floodlit KIL clubs and relegate the rest of the Kentish rubbish back where they belong in the Kent County League. Simples.


bomaya
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Jan 10, 2012, 1:50 PM

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Sussex League had their meeting last night to tell their members and somehow this proposal came out of it with Sussex teams dispersed between CCL and Kent. Haven't checked what criteria they've used but here it is:

ARUNDEL
2 Badshot Lea
3 Banstead Athletic
4 Chessington & Hook United
5 Colliers Wood United
6 Dorking
7 EAST GRINSTEAD TOWN
8 Epsom & Ewell
9 Guildford City
10 Hanworth Villa
11 HASSOCKS
12 Horley Town
13 HORSHAM YMCA
14 LANCING
15 LINGFIELD
16 Mole Valley SCR
17 Molesey
18 Raynes Park Vale
19 REDHILL
20 SHOREHAM
21 South Park
22 ST FRANCIS RANGERS
23 THREE BRIDGES
24 WORTHING UNITED


and

AFC Uckfield (SCL)
Beckenham Town (KL)
Canterbury City (KL)
Corinthian (KL)
Cray Valley PM (KL)
Crowborough Ath (SCL)
Croydon (CCL)
Deal Town (KL)
Erith & Belvedere (KL)
Erith Town (KL)
Fisher (KL)
Greenwich Borough (KL)
Herne Bay (KL)
Holmesdale (KL)
Lordswood (KL)
Peacehaven & Tels (SCL)
Ringmer (SCL)
Rye United (SCL)
Sevenoaks Town (KL)
Sidley United (SCL)
Tunbridge Wells (KL)
VCD Athletic (KL)
Woodstock Sports (KL)
Worthing United (SCL)


wazzafan
First Team Sub

Jan 10, 2012, 2:06 PM

Posts: 980
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Re: [Sarumio] National League Meeeting [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

Completely agree that the Sussex and Essex Leagues should be the leagues to disband and that the UCL shouldn't be touched at all. Surely if the FA want more 'regional' leagues then leagues called 'United Counties' and 'Combined Counties' are the sort of leagues the FA want to have and not disband altogether. 'Shared Counties League' in 2013/14 anyone?



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Step 1: http://goo.gl/9QipfY
Step 2: http://goo.gl/VoE1oY
Step 3: http://goo.gl/Ru3jUk
Step 4: http://goo.gl/QHVmDA
Step 5: http://goo.gl/VrnrYg
Step 6: http://goo.gl/Mk86of


leohoenig
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Jan 10, 2012, 2:11 PM

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Re: [bomaya] National League Meeeting [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

Selsey, Chichester, Pagham - Wessex?



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Barbie
First Team Regular

Jan 10, 2012, 2:15 PM

Posts: 1204
Location: Closer to Calais than to Selsey
Team(s): Rye United RIP, Barry Town Utd

Post #25 of 197 (13322 views)
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Re: [bomaya] National League Meeeting [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


In Reply To
Sussex League had their meeting last night to tell their members and somehow this proposal came out of it with Sussex teams dispersed between CCL and Kent. Haven't checked what criteria they've used but here it is:

ARUNDEL
2 Badshot Lea
3 Banstead Athletic
4 Chessington & Hook United
5 Colliers Wood United
6 Dorking
7 EAST GRINSTEAD TOWN
8 Epsom & Ewell
9 Guildford City
10 Hanworth Villa
11 HASSOCKS
12 Horley Town
13 HORSHAM YMCA
14 LANCING
15 LINGFIELD
16 Mole Valley SCR
17 Molesey
18 Raynes Park Vale
19 REDHILL
20 SHOREHAM
21 South Park
22 ST FRANCIS RANGERS
23 THREE BRIDGES
24 WORTHING UNITED


and

AFC Uckfield (SCL)
Beckenham Town (KL)
Canterbury City (KL)
Corinthian (KL)
Cray Valley PM (KL)
Crowborough Ath (SCL)
Croydon (CCL)
Deal Town (KL)
Erith & Belvedere (KL)
Erith Town (KL)
Fisher (KL)
Greenwich Borough (KL)
Herne Bay (KL)
Holmesdale (KL)
Lordswood (KL)
Peacehaven & Tels (SCL)
Ringmer (SCL)
Rye United (SCL)
Sevenoaks Town (KL)
Sidley United (SCL)
Tunbridge Wells (KL)
VCD Athletic (KL)
Woodstock Sports (KL)
Worthing United (SCL)


With Selsey & Chi off to Wessex presumably. (HurrahBlush)

We're on our way to Holmesdale, we're on our way to Holmesdale. La, la, la, la. (Please note - this is sarcasm)

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