Tony's Non-League Forum: Non-League Football: Restructuring: Northants Clubs in Division 1 South: Page 3


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Northants Clubs in Division 1 South

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acmold
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Oct 28, 2011, 6:02 PM

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Post #51 of 60 (1576 views)
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Re: [blackdouglas] Northants Clubs in Division 1 South [In reply to]	Can't Post or Reply Privately

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Why is it pure bluster. If any of us had to travel to the north-east 6,7,8 times a season(which in the long run is very much possible, could be more). That's an extra Ł5k+ on coaches.When we are all treading water, with very little to pay players at the moment, where are we supposed to find the money to pay for coaches and the extra money to pay players to travel on a Tuesday night to Newcastle. That 5k is between a quarter and a third of ours and Loughborough's playing budget for the season.

The reason it's pure bluster is we all know it should never happen. The chance of Geordie and the Leicestershire clubs being in the same division should be the reason why the NPL is split north/south and not east/west in the 1st place. If it ever did happen you could always do what Northwood did when we found ourselves booted out of the Isthmian Premier into the Southern Premier, take the hit, play the kids and suffer the relegation (I'll pm you the problems that caused us if you want).

Whatever way you split the NPL at step 4 the clubs in Southern League One South & West have longer trips and seem to manage.

Loughborough to Durham 159
Shepshed to Durham 160

Abingdon to Bideford 182
Halesowen to Bideford 181
Stourport to Bideford 172
Gosport to Bideford 169

I'm adored in Augsburg

blackdouglas
First Team Star

Oct 28, 2011, 9:46 PM

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Location: Northwood, Middlesex
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Post #52 of 60 (1539 views)
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Re: [acmold] Northants Clubs in Division 1 South [In reply to]	Can't Post or Reply Privately

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I don't disagree, do tell Dynamo though.

Northwood, Threave Rovers, Arsenal, Watford, Rochdale, Rangers (the real ones, NOT qpr), queen of the south and a few others.

Pyramid Allocations for the 2013/14 season as published by the FA on May 17th http://bit.ly/18QoFvt
How I would've allocated the clubs for 2013/14 http://bit.ly/OS8GoJ

chienmort
Reserve Team Regular

Oct 28, 2011, 11:27 PM

Posts: 668
Location: Poole
Team(s): Poole Town FC, Queens Park RANGERS.

Post #53 of 60 (1528 views)
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Re: [acmold] Northants Clubs in Division 1 South [In reply to]	Can't Post or Reply Privately

Those are single trips. If you look at say Bideford, Halesowen and Poole, the average away trip is enormous.

The Northern league club's averages at step 4 would diminish at a stroke if any of them took promotion. The real trick would be to promote 4 teams at once. at least they would have a number of derbies.

Poole Town FC - les couilles du chien

blackdouglas
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Oct 29, 2011, 2:01 AM

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Post #54 of 60 (1516 views)
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Re: [chienmort] Northants Clubs in Division 1 South [In reply to]	Can't Post or Reply Privately

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The Northern league club's averages at step 4 would diminish at a stroke if any of them took promotion. The real trick would be to promote 4 teams at once. at least they would have a number of derbies.

But how often do we need to make these "multi-club" promotion offers to the Northern League clubs?

In the original 2004 restructure they were offered 4 places,
When the NPL One expanded to 2 divisions they were offered another 3/4 places,
And again as the two NPL One divisions expanded from 18 to 22 clubs they were offered yet another 3/4 places.

In essence the NPL 1(N) could now be half filled with North-Eastern clubs but what happened? Only Durham City and Newcastle Blue Star have taken up promotion since 2004. The result? NBS's sugar daddy pulled the plug on the club sending them into oblivion and Durham City's sponsors pulled the plug when it was discovered The Conference wouldn't accept them with their plastic pitch if they ever won promotion & very nearly imploded.

As an aside, we've also lost Bishop Auckland and Spennymoor from Step 3.

Dynamo
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Oct 29, 2011, 11:15 AM

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Location: Leicester
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Post #55 of 60 (1482 views)
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Re: [blackdouglas] Northants Clubs in Division 1 South [In reply to]	Can't Post or Reply Privately

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New Mills don't have that much to moan about because Goole AFC and Brigg Town, both have better claims to being in NPL 1(North) than they do. What New Mills don't like is the fact they're not in the same division as other sides from the Manchester area. They're not the first and they won't be the last club who won't like what side of a boundary they're placed when they'd rather be on the other. If anyone has a right to mank & moan it is Goole and Brigg, who're constantly missing out on more than a handful of derbies with the Leeds/Bradford based sides and instead have games in Cheshire, Shropshire, Staffordshire, North Warwickshire and Leicestershire with no real local derby other than each other.

I'm increasingly convinced that the NPL would be better with an east-west split at step four.

As the NPL's Step 5 feeders are split east-west (NWC & NC(E)) it would be a better idea. Although, in the current circumstances, that would have the Northern League clubs having to travel as far as Leicestershire to play Shepshed, Loughborough, Quorn, etc and it's currently hard enough to persuade any of them to want to travel any farther than Harrogate (unless it's in the FA Vase of course). It also seems like any "promotion application" is the ultimate "promotion form" killer in the Northern League.

Hang on you are the one that said East/west would be a BETTER idea . Travel distance of 20 miles also means nothing. It would still need a coach, something that we dont use at present.

If you want to quote miles, here you go the future on East/West split.
Coalville to Bedlington 192.9 miles
Quorn to Bedlington 188.7 miles
Shepshed to Bedlington 185.9 miles

Coalville to Whitley Bay 186.2 miles
Quorn to W.B 182 miles
Shepshed to W.B 179.2 miles

Coalville to Dunston 178.1 miles
Quorn to Dunston 174.9 miles
Shepshed to Dunston 172.1 miles

Not forgetting weather being far worse up north in winter, causing more postponements and longer travelling times.

Goole and Brigg have never been to bothered about playing the local yorkshire sides because they dont bring the same numbers in support to them as the Leicestershire sides(bar quorn ) as well as Stamford , Grantham etc.

blackdouglas
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Oct 29, 2011, 12:30 PM

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Location: Northwood, Middlesex
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Post #56 of 60 (1469 views)
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Re: [Dynamo] Northants Clubs in Division 1 South [In reply to]	Can't Post or Reply Privately

But in an ideal world the Leics. clubs would never be in the NPL in the first place, therefore how they split their divisions would be moot. In my opinion the NPL shouldn't come as far south as Notts, where a separate Midlands section takes over. With the current distribution an east-west split is better but if more NL clubs do come up then the North/south split will suit more.

My take on what the Step 4 geographical boundaries should look like

NPL 1(E) - East of the Pennines Scottish Border to Mansfield;
NPL 1(W) - West of the Pennines Scottish Border to Stoke/Stafford;
SL 1(M) - Stoke-Stafford/Mansfield to Cheltenham/Milton Keynes and west of Peterborough/Luton;
SL 1(S) - Cheltenham/Milton Keynes to the South Coast and west of Reading/Southampton;
IL 1(N) - East of Peterborough/Luton/Reading and North of the Thames
IL 1(S) - East of Reading/Southampton and South of the Thames

With these boundaries the Leics clubs would never need think of heading to the NE for a league game.

Can I also add as you've been almost vitriolic in your stance against coach travel because the club can't afford it. Fair enough, but if you can't even provision for the possible use of a coach for up to maybe a quarter of your away games, maybe you're playing at a level or 2 beyond you club's finances.

I never said Goole & Brigg did moan about not being in the North, I said they had more of a right to than New Mills did. (I shan't mention the friend of a friend of a friend who is associated with Goole and exasperated at being in the South again. Whoops.)

Dynamo
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Oct 29, 2011, 1:45 PM

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Location: Leicester
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Post #57 of 60 (1463 views)
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Re: [blackdouglas] Northants Clubs in Division 1 South [In reply to]	Can't Post or Reply Privately

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NPL 1(E) - East of the Pennines Scottish Border to Mansfield;
NPL 1(W) - West of the Pennines Scottish Border to Stoke/Stafford;
SL 1(M) - Stoke-Stafford/Mansfield to Cheltenham/Milton Keynes and west of Peterborough/Luton;
SL 1(S) - Cheltenham/Milton Keynes to the South Coast and west of Reading/Southampton;
IL 1(N) - East of Peterborough/Luton/Reading and North of the Thames
IL 1(S) - East of Reading/Southampton and South of the Thames

As only about 4 or 5 teams in the division use coaches , then were all at the wrong level then.

blackdouglas
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Oct 29, 2011, 6:59 PM

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Location: Northwood, Middlesex
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Post #58 of 60 (1442 views)
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Re: [Dynamo] Northants Clubs in Division 1 South [In reply to]	Can't Post or Reply Privately

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As only about 4 or 5 teams in the division use coaches , then were all at the wrong level then.

You specifically said you were treading water and couldn't find the extra money for a coach when needed. I don't know about any of the other clubs in your division. Let's hope we never have to find out.

acmold
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Oct 30, 2011, 9:53 AM

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Post #59 of 60 (1391 views)
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Re: [blackdouglas] Northants Clubs in Division 1 South [In reply to]	Can't Post or Reply Privately

I have always said just a few teams moved up down or sideways would actually make the Pyramid look much better. In the case of step 4 replace the Midland teams in NPL with Northern League sides, move Midlands teams to the Southern League. Bring in the top 3 or 4 sides from the West below step 4 into step 4. Give everyone a couiple of seasons notice about it. For one season you would have to have 3 or 4 down from each step 4 division.

I'm adored in Augsburg

Dave-Goole
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Oct 30, 2011, 12:51 PM

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Post #60 of 60 (1364 views)
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Re: [Dynamo] Northants Clubs in Division 1 South [In reply to]	Can't Post or Reply Privately

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I'm increasingly convinced that the NPL would be better with an east-west split at step four.

Goole AFC certainly are bothered which league they are placed in and have requested from the outset that they wanted to be placed in the NPL Div 1 North alongside their West Riding County FA member clubs and they make the request every season.

I read an interesting article from Bridlington Town at the end of last season, (article can be found here - dated 15-06-11) http://www.freewebs.com/bridtownafc/townnews.htm

saying "We did apply for promotion to the EVO-STIK league last season and it had been intimated by the Football Association that had we been promoted we may have gone into the EVO-STIK Division One South which was our preference. This would have resulted in the return of at least two local derbies against Goole AFC and Brigg Town and less travelling generally than in the Division North which is realistically a North West Division with most of the teams in Lancashire and Cheshire."

http://gooleafc.com

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