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Home: Non-League Football Discussion: Restructuring Discussion:
ATTENDANCES

 

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deviousbadger
Junior Team Sub


May 12, 2011, 3:45 PM

Posts: 28
Location: People's Republic of South Hornchurch
Team(s): Southend United, Billericay Town, Corinthian-Casuals

Post #26 of 33 (1107 views)
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Re: [brianpoole] ATTENDANCES [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


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Thanks you Adam.
Your loquaciousness in no way detacts from my argument about community involvement and rewarding clubs that attract genuinely greater numbers of paying customers!


I understand that you wish to reward clubs that do good community work, but I still think that using attendance as a qualifier for promotion is unfairly discriminatory. A club could be very active in it's community and move heaven and earth to try and attract new customers but still suffer from low footfall. If they - fairly and without the need for huge investment - finished in a promotion place and were denied promotion on the technicality that their average gate was 50 too less, is this really fair?

Another argument is the existence of other, much bigger outfits in a club's catchment area. Look at the Ryman North for example - their average gate for this league is the lowest in step 4, but the proximity of the large London clubs such as West Ham, Chelsea, Tottenham and Arsenal rob the clubs of support. Should they be discriminated against in the promotion stakes because of this?

I agree that healthy attendance is a good thing, but it's not the be-all-and-end-all.


(This post was edited by deviousbadger on May 12, 2011, 3:57 PM)


AdamKing
Junior Team Star


May 12, 2011, 3:53 PM

Posts: 105
Location: Gloucester Docks
Team(s): Arsenal, Gloucester City, Cambridge United

Post #27 of 33 (1102 views)
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Re: [deviousbadger] ATTENDANCES [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

Agreed,

I know of a number of clubs who are actively trying to market themselves to more fans in their community. However, you cannot force people into clubs against their will.

I remember reading a post on another non league forum that suggested non-league clubs (Step 6 and above, I hasten to add) play their weekend games on Friday nights, so that fans could see their local non-league club and could then go and watch their main team on Saturday.

Not sure if it's the right way forward, but if it helps boost attendances then maybe...the Jury is out on that one.



Your Talents Are The Wings Your Dreams Will Use To Fly


deviousbadger
Junior Team Sub


May 12, 2011, 4:03 PM

Posts: 28
Location: People's Republic of South Hornchurch
Team(s): Southend United, Billericay Town, Corinthian-Casuals

Post #28 of 33 (1097 views)
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Re: [AdamKing] ATTENDANCES [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


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Agreed,

I know of a number of clubs who are actively trying to market themselves to more fans in their community. However, you cannot force people into clubs against their will.

I remember reading a post on another non league forum that suggested non-league clubs (Step 6 and above, I hasten to add) play their weekend games on Friday nights, so that fans could see their local non-league club and could then go and watch their main team on Saturday.

Not sure if it's the right way forward, but if it helps boost attendances then maybe...the Jury is out on that one.


I think this is a good idea - I for one would go to local non league games held on a Friday and I know several other people who also take this view.

I think the real killer for Saturdays are the televised Sky lunchtime / ESPN evening games. People who would want a football fix on Saturday that can't get to their club's game can now get this through TV, a few years back some of them would have gone to their local non league side...


buncranaboy
Qatar World Cup bid member!


May 12, 2011, 4:19 PM

Posts: 17971
Location: South Birmingham
Team(s): Barnstoneworth United; Bostock Stanley

Post #29 of 33 (1086 views)
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Re: [deviousbadger] ATTENDANCES [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


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I think this is a good idea - I for one would go to local non league games held on a Friday and I know several other people who also take this view.

I think the real killer for Saturdays are the televised Sky lunchtime / ESPN evening games. People who would want a football fix on Saturday that can't get to their club's game can now get this through TV, a few years back some of them would have gone to their local non league side...



I'm sure they must get a decent audience for these games, but I don't know one single person who watches Saturday football on TV when they would have otherwise have gone to a match.

Sundays, yes - me included, if only for an easy life Crazy


waspexile
Youth Team Sub


May 17, 2011, 3:50 PM

Posts: 169
Location: Burgess Hill
Team(s): Burgess Hill Town, Brighton and Hove Albion

Post #30 of 33 (967 views)
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Re: [Mishi] ATTENDANCES [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


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So what happens when you have a run of,say, five home games in quick succession, due to playing 'catch up' as a reslut of bad weather & cup ties causing postponements? Suddenly people can't afford to go to every game, starting pick & choose their matches due to lack of funds.

Do you sudden impose automatic demotion on a club whose crwods drop below your threshold?

And how do you quantify 'gates'? Season ticket holders included? I'll just give 300 season tickets out to the local primary school. Sorted. Staying up.

Call me old fashioned if you like, but as much as I hate the likes of the Notreally-Police going up, with their promotion party being 88 people, including Merstham fans, that's not a reason to keep them down.

Likewise, sugardaddies. If I won the double rollover on the National Lottery & suddenly became a multi-millionaire I would put money into the Club I've supported all my life.


This!



short corners......... as useful as a chocolate teapot.


MistaFozzII
First Team Regular


May 19, 2011, 12:53 AM

Posts: 1406
Location: Shildon, Co Durham
Team(s): Darlingto

Post #31 of 33 (842 views)
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Re: [AdamKing] ATTENDANCES [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


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I agree that attendances are a major problem in non-league. I went to see Studley at their Beehive ground a few years back and there were about 12 people in all there!

The problem is that non-league has no real appeal, bar the 'hardcore' element of fans who go week after week no matter what. People would rather waste hundreds of pounds each weekend going to watch the glamour sides such as Man Utd, Chelsea, Arsenal, Liverpool etc. at the expense of the club round the corner which could do with more fans coming through the turnstiles.

The only time you'll see fans 'latch' onto a club is when they're successful. Look at Tipton and Darlington this season - Tipton hardly get above 50 for home games, yet how many people went up to Carlisle to watch them in the FA Cup game at Brunton Park? Where did all the extra Darlington fans come from, when their team was at Wembley?

Give you an example - there are two girls at a bar, both single. One is overweight, frumpy and has more chins than China, the other is slim, blonde, sex on legs. Which one do you choose to ask out?

If non league isn't 'sexy' enough, it's not going to draw the crowds in. The problem then arises that clubs face a shortfall of cash and have to cut costs which knocks on to the coaching and playing staff - if they aren't being paid or only paid a pittance they'll be off.

As for the notion of a sugar daddy, well it's horses for courses in my view. Some clubs get lucky and others sadly don't. That's life. The better clubs will rise to the top, and the worst clubs will have to sweat nervously.

It would be great if there was a level playing field, but sadly that's unlikely to happen - different clubs can afford to pay more than others at the same level, so should you say there is only one amount of money per week that clubs can pay at Step 5/6 etc. What if, for example, a league is told to only pay 40 pppw (per player per week) and three of the clubs can't afford to pay it, whilst most of the others can afford it and three or four can easily afford it and bring in new players as well?

I agree that there should be stronger community ties with their local club, however you can take a horse (no I've not got a thing for horses..) to water but you can't make it drink. I'll never forget one lad in Gloucester, when I said 'it's a shame that most of the kids wear Man Utd shirts and not Gloucester ones.' The lad retorted 'well it's MY RIGHT to support who I want.'

Short of getting a third round home clash with the likes of Man Utd etc in the FA Cup, I'm not really sure how you can get people through the gates of their local clubs. A shame really, as we're fast becoming (if not already become) a 'sing when you're winning' nation.

If you read this all the way through, take a gold star... I really didn't intend this post to be like 'War and Peace.'


About Darlington, over 2k Darlo went to Gateshead, 1 week after a gate of about 4k at Darlington, the last home game against York got well over 2k, and about 10k went to Wembley.

With tv as it is now, means clubs are reliant on a good deal, I would hate to see what the outcome if Sky went bust, it would be catastrophic.

To try and get punters through Non League Gates, how can that be achieved, I dont know, would it not be possible to move the Premiership and Championship to Friday/Sunday/Nights, leaving Lower Leagues and National League System at 3pm, dont top European leagues play on Sundays.



Mista Fozz

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StokePriorAndy
First Team Star

May 20, 2011, 6:51 PM

Posts: 2118
Location: Blackwell Bromsgrove
Team(s): Bromsgrove Sporting, Bromsgrove Rovers, Tottenham H, Gainsborough Trinity

Post #32 of 33 (777 views)
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Re: [MistaFozzII] ATTENDANCES [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

I think there's a distinct possibility that many small clubs in non-league aren't even bothered about supporters but are simply there to create an opportunity for people to play the game.

Really, that's where non-league starts as I believe every local community should have opportunities to provide the sports that its people want to play. I believe we are on the verge of having the right attitude and opportunities at Bromsgrove where we are providing to teams and because of what has happened with the demise of Rovers we also have some pride in the new team and a realisation as to what we lost coupled with a determination not to let it happen again. The club itself is now a pleasant place to go and we have put back into the local sporting community by involvement with local leagues, providing a venue for the Cup Finals they run at little cost to them and by supporting local charities. We have made mistakes and there is a long way to go so we are taking a "walk before we run" attitude. This season we have had a first team, a Youth Team and support for an over 35s team plus a local Sunday side play on our ground. Next season we will definitely add a Reserve side and an Under 13s plus in due course more age group teams and womens/girls teams but only when the time and finances are right.

All clubs in non-league have to decide what they want to achieve and how they want to achieve it. Nowadays numbers through the gate on the first team match days are only a small part of the equation.


chienmort
First Team Sub


May 20, 2011, 6:56 PM

Posts: 1089
Location: Poole
Team(s): Poole Town FC, Queens Park RANGERS.

Post #33 of 33 (767 views)
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Re: [MistaFozzII] ATTENDANCES [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

If I remember rightly, Mike Avery put forward a suggestion that clubs will reach a level in the pyramid determined by their level of support/attendances.

Of course Sugar Daddies and occasional footballing anomalies happen but in general this idea is correct. Sugar Daddies and the occasional footballing blip always eventually fail to keep a club at an elevated level.

The Conference has the right idea and has shown its teeth the season just finished by deducting points from clubs that have transgressed financially. This will undoubtedly be adopted by some feeder leagues at some stage.

However this is only half the equation. There must be a limit to how much of a club's income is spent on the playing budget. This is true at every level of the pyramid from the Premier league to Step 4 or even Step 5.

The income used to assess the playing budget must also be controlled as income from gate receipts, commercial activities and direct sponsorship. It should exclude loans, investment and sponsorship from directors and companies that they are also directors.So for example, Alan Sugar at Spurs would not be able to take sponsorship money from Amstrad.

If this happened the whole of the pyramid would be a more equitable place with successful teams achieving that success because of their fan base and footballing prowess.



Poole Town FC - les couilles du chien

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