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Sectarian bigotry & racism

 



rainjar
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Apr 15, 2011, 3:26 AM

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Sectarian bigotry & racism Can't Post or Reply Privately

There are probably more Catholics than non-whites in the UEFA hierarchy, so it wouldn't surprise me if they take sectarian bigotry more seriously than racism.

Both issues need to be addressed, and although neither issue should be downplayed, neither should be overblown. Getting the balance right is always tough. Perhaps Martin Gore should be UEFA President.



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AndyE
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Apr 15, 2011, 2:21 PM

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Re: [rainjar] Sectarian bigotry & racism [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

If we were to assume that all of the UEFA Executive follow the predominant faith in their countries, then the sixteen man board would comprise seven Catholics, five Orthodox Christians, two Protestants, one Jewish, and one Muslim. None is a member of a visible ethnic minority in his own country.

Much as I don't want to downplay the seriousness of sectarian bigotry, is it seen much at football matches other than in Scotland and Northern Ireland (as between Catholics and Protestants), and in Serbia and Bosnia (as between Catholics, Orthodox Christians, and Muslims)? Does it happen when (say) PSV - from mainly Catholic Eindhoven - play Groningen, a mostly Protestant city? Do the Arab teams in the Israeli league receive abuse from the supporters of the Jewish teams?

And if we are going to crack down hard on religion-based intolerance, should we also crack down hard on politics-based intolerance? Perhaps the most notorious example is games between Hansa Rostock (whose fans have a reputation for being very right wing) and St Pauli (whose fans tend to be left wing, and which also has a substantial number of gay supporters, not a sector of the community loved by the Hansa Rostock crowd).


(This post was edited by AndyE on Apr 15, 2011, 2:27 PM)


cope1
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Apr 15, 2011, 2:39 PM

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I think it's a positive for any of these things to be dealt with and I feel that sometimes there is too much of, "if you're going to tackle that, you should've tackled this too" by which I mean that if you don't tackle any one problem until you've tackled all the others you'll never tackle anything!


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Do the Arab teams in the Israeli league receive abuse from the supporters of the Jewish teams?



Certainly from Beitar Jerusalem, whose fans have a reputation for their anti-Arab opinions (the club has never signed an Arab, and when its former owner Arkadi Gaydamak announced he was planning on signing Abbas Suan, he was forced to back down after the fans protested).

http://www.guardian.co.uk/...outh.beitarjerusalem


PaulC
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Apr 19, 2011, 8:43 PM

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Much as I don't want to downplay the seriousness of sectarian bigotry, is it seen much at football matches other than in Scotland and Northern Ireland

Yes, in England where Tottenham fans come in for a lot of abuse

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/8450760/Anti-Semitic-abuse-rife-among-football-fans.html




Andrelux
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Apr 19, 2011, 9:12 PM

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Re: [PaulC] Sectarian bigotry & racism [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

Indeed. But precisely what percentage of Tottenham fans are actually Jewish?

10%? I doubt it. Single-digit percentages, at most. So the vast majority are profoundly unaffected and probably confused by any anti-semitic chants.


cope1
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Much as I don't want to downplay the seriousness of sectarian bigotry, is it seen much at football matches other than in Scotland and Northern Ireland

Yes, in England where Tottenham fans come in for a lot of abuse

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/...g-football-fans.html



Isn't he missing the point? I believe the actual racism occured decades ago, but these days it's Spurs who call themselves Yiddo.


cope1
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Apr 19, 2011, 9:43 PM

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Indeed. But precisely what percentage of Tottenham fans are actually Jewish?

10%? I doubt it. Single-digit percentages, at most. So the vast majority are profoundly unaffected and probably confused by any anti-semitic chants.


I read somewhere that Arsenal have the highest proportion of Jewish fans of all clubs in the Premier League.

I do think racism and sectarianism should be stamped out but I also think the Yid/Spurs thing is like the Arsenal fans chanting "Boring, boring Arsenal" when they beat someone 5-0. I don't know when the Yid tag arose exactly but in my lifetime I've never known it be anything other than a badge worn by Spurs fans.


UKPunk
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Apr 19, 2011, 10:01 PM

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Indeed. But precisely what percentage of Tottenham fans are actually Jewish?

10%? I doubt it. Single-digit percentages, at most. So the vast majority are profoundly unaffected and probably confused by any anti-semitic chants.


I read somewhere that Arsenal have the highest proportion of Jewish fans of all clubs in the Premier League.

I do think racism and sectarianism should be stamped out but I also think the Yid/Spurs thing is like the Arsenal fans chanting "Boring, boring Arsenal" when they beat someone 5-0. I don't know when the Yid tag arose exactly but in my lifetime I've never known it be anything other than a badge worn by Spurs fans.

My recollection of the first time I heard it chanted at Spurs fans was by Arsenal fans against us on 7/4/80. We soon adopted it as a badge and no one I've ever met has had a problem with it, even jewish fans.

Sticks and stones can break my bones......?

I just think that some people really need to get a grip.



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PaulC
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Apr 22, 2011, 7:40 PM

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My recollection of the first time I heard it chanted at Spurs fans was by Arsenal fans against us on 7/4/80. We soon adopted it as a badge and no one I've ever met has had a problem with it, even jewish fans.

Sticks and stones can break my bones......?

I just think that some people really need to get a grip.



I dare say you're right. The songs sung by Celtic and Rangers supporters have been sung for the last 80 years. Only in this PC age have they become an issue.


UKPunk
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Apr 22, 2011, 10:24 PM

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My recollection of the first time I heard it chanted at Spurs fans was by Arsenal fans against us on 7/4/80. We soon adopted it as a badge and no one I've ever met has had a problem with it, even jewish fans.

Sticks and stones can break my bones......?

I just think that some people really need to get a grip.



I dare say you're right. The songs sung by Celtic and Rangers supporters have been sung for the last 80 years. Only in this PC age have they become an issue.

My reference was specifically to those songs aimed at Spurs fans as, being a 'yid', I can say that they bother neither me nor any jewish Spurs fans I've met.

As far as Rangers and Celtic fans are concerned, it's stupid enough chanting songs, or getting upset by songs of a religious nature. But to go to the lengths that some of their fans go to really is ridiculous and very, very 'sad'. Quite frankly they come across as neanderthal types who should get a life.



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MistaFozzII
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Apr 22, 2011, 10:30 PM

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Doesn't Ajax get singled out for there jewish connections



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rainjar
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Apr 24, 2011, 1:53 AM

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....

As far as Rangers and Celtic fans are concerned, it's stupid enough chanting songs, or getting upset by songs of a religious nature. But to go to the lengths that some of their fans go to really is ridiculous and very, very 'sad'. Quite frankly they come across as neanderthal types who should get a life.


On BBC News:


Quote
Two men have been arrested after raids by police targeting people suspected of posting "sectarian and hate filled" comments on websites.

A 23-year-old and a 27-year-old are in police custody after the raids in the early hours of the morning.

The arrests were made in Paisley and Dalmarnock in the east end of Glasgow. Both men have been charged with sectarian breach of the peace

Police are targeting about 50 people in the operation.

The two men who have been arrested are expected to appear at Glasgow Sheriff Court on Tuesday.

Supt Kirk Kinnell, from Strathclyde Police's anti-violence directorate, said: "I would like to deliver a clear message to those who continue to make hate-filled comments and cause distress to decent members of the public, that we will pursue you relentlessly until this behaviour is stopped.

"Some people seem to think that they are anonymous online or can hide in a crowd, but technology can also be used to bring the police directly to you wherever you are."

The raids, which police said were ongoing, target postings of religious and racial hate comments about Celtic manager Neil Lennon and Rangers striker El Hadji-Diouf.

It is understood the addresses were identified with the help of the Internet Service Providers Association, as part of an operation which has been going on for several weeks.

Strathclyde Police said that some online postings were already being taken down but that officers had captured the electronic evidence for individuals being targeted.

The suspects range in age from their early teens to their 50s.

The force said it was not able to shut down offensive websites as that was outside their jurisdiction.




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UKPunk
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Apr 24, 2011, 6:53 PM

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Doesn't Ajax get singled out for there jewish connections

I'm aware of Ajax's jewish connections having read Simon Kuper's book 'Ajax, The Dutch, The War'. But I don't know if they're singled out in any way by fans of other clubs.



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Fanatic
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Apr 25, 2011, 10:32 AM

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Doesn't Ajax get singled out for there jewish connections

I'm aware of Ajax's jewish connections having read Simon Kuper's book 'Ajax, The Dutch, The War'. But I don't know if they're singled out in any way by fans of other clubs.



These reports would suggest they are:

http://www.wsc.co.uk/content/view/1889/29/
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/...pe/article498707.ece


PonteCarlo
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Apr 26, 2011, 3:29 PM

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As far as Rangers and Celtic fans are concerned, it's stupid enough chanting songs, or getting upset by songs of a religious nature. But to go to the lengths that some of their fans go to really is ridiculous and very, very 'sad'. Quite frankly they come across as neanderthal types who should get a life.


I couldn't agree more to be honest! I've come across Celtic fans in person, who fit that description perfectly. I can't imagine Rangers supporters are any different either.



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UKPunk
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Apr 26, 2011, 7:45 PM

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Quote
As far as Rangers and Celtic fans are concerned, it's stupid enough chanting songs, or getting upset by songs of a religious nature. But to go to the lengths that some of their fans go to really is ridiculous and very, very 'sad'. Quite frankly they come across as neanderthal types who should get a life.


I couldn't agree more to be honest! I've come across Celtic fans in person, who fit that description perfectly. I can't imagine Rangers supporters are any different either.

Many years ago I was working for a large food retailer in their goods reception department on the eve of a Rangers v Celtic match. The lorry we were unloading was driven by a Celtic fan who was wearing his clubs shirt. Another lorry pulled into the yard and parked up and the driver jumped out wearing his Rangers shirt.

Within ten minutes of them laying eyes on each other we were trying to stop them punching each others lights out!! Crazy



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Garrincha's dog
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Apr 26, 2011, 9:53 PM

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can't imagine Rangers supporters are any different either.

Many years ago I was working for a large food retailer in their goods reception department on the eve of a Rangers v Celtic match. The lorry we were unloading was driven by a Celtic fan who was wearing his clubs shirt. Another lorry pulled into the yard and parked up and the driver jumped out wearing his Rangers shirt.

Within ten minutes of them laying eyes on each other we were trying to stop them punching each others lights out!!

Crazy


Why?

My 2nd favourite poster on here, but at times I just cannot fathom you out.


UKPunk
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Apr 27, 2011, 2:16 PM

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can't imagine Rangers supporters are any different either.

Many years ago I was working for a large food retailer in their goods reception department on the eve of a Rangers v Celtic match. The lorry we were unloading was driven by a Celtic fan who was wearing his clubs shirt. Another lorry pulled into the yard and parked up and the driver jumped out wearing his Rangers shirt.

Within ten minutes of them laying eyes on each other we were trying to stop them punching each others lights out!!

Crazy


Why?

My 2nd favourite poster on here, but at times I just cannot fathom you out.

Nothing to do with stopping them killing each other. More to do with a 'job and finish' situation. We just wanted to get them unloaded so we could go home.

Only second? Is Mr. First one of 'the gang'? Tongue



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rainjar
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Jun 17, 2011, 2:16 PM

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New bill to tackle sectarianism in Scottish football:


Quote
The Scottish government has published its proposals for legislation to tackle sectarianism related to football, including tough new prison terms.

The bill aims to stamp out abusive behaviour from football fans whether they are watching matches in a stadium, in the pub or commenting online.

It would raise the maximum jail term from six months to five years.

But the legal profession and Holyrood's justice committee raised fears the laws were being rushed through too quickly.

The Offensive Behaviour at Football and Threatening Communications Bill, which could be passed by 30 June and in place for the start of the football season in July, aims to tackle disorder around football matches and clamp down on internet hate postings.

The draft legislation includes two new offences.

The first relates to stirring up religious hatred at or around football matches in a way likely to cause public disorder.

It will also apply to pubs which are showing the games on television.

The second addresses the use of new technology to air old prejudices.

It bans communications anywhere, including on sites such as Facebook and Twitter, which involve a threat or incitement to stir up religious hatred.


Sounds pretty draconian.



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buncranaboy
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Jun 17, 2011, 4:43 PM

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Hot air, I'm afraid.


MistaFozzII
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Jun 21, 2011, 5:24 PM

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In Reply To

In Reply To
Doesn't Ajax get singled out for there jewish connections

I'm aware of Ajax's jewish connections having read Simon Kuper's book 'Ajax, The Dutch, The War'. But I don't know if they're singled out in any way by fans of other clubs.


I started reading that book, read the first 6 pages and left it on a bus.

i think Feyenoord sing 'Hamas, Hamas, Jews to the Gas'...



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