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Home: Non League Football Information: FA Competitions:
'Big' cup shocks

 



Mr. T
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Jan 9, 2011, 11:52 AM

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'Big' cup shocks Can't Post or Reply Privately

Am I correct in thinking that Newcastle's defeat yesterday was the first '4th' division v. '1st' division since Fulham v. Leyton Orient in 05-06?

Someone posted a list of these (and '2nd' v. '5th/6th') not so long ago but I can't find it.


jrev61
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Jan 9, 2011, 12:25 PM

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Post #2 of 18 (5426 views)
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Am I correct in thinking that Newcastle's defeat yesterday was the first '4th' division v. '1st' division since Fulham v. Leyton Orient in 05-06?

Someone posted a list of these (and '2nd' v. '5th/6th') not so long ago but I can't find it.

That's what they said on ESPN last night, the only other Premier League teams to lose against '4th Division opposition were Everton who lost to Shrewsbury.
Before the Premership was formed Arsenal's loss to Wrexham was the last such defeat.



jrev61


garethwrexy
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Jan 9, 2011, 12:42 PM

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Post #3 of 18 (5417 views)
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know there not non league anmore but stevenage getting revange v 3-1 newcastle was a big shock, only time i have ever felt sorry for stevenage was when newcastle kicked up a fuss about the ground



wrexham fc fa trophy winners 2013 !


Mr. T
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Jan 9, 2011, 12:49 PM

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Post #4 of 18 (5414 views)
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That's what they said on ESPN last night, the only other Premier League team to lose against '4th Division' opposition were Everton who lost to Shrewsbury [02-03].
Before the Premership was formed Arsenal's loss to Wrexham [91-92] was the last such defeat.


Two more:-
98-99 Swansea 1-0 West Ham (3rd round replay)
01-02 Derby 1-3 Bristol Rovers (3rd round)


(This post was edited by Mr. T on Jan 9, 2011, 1:00 PM)


Isaac
Man City Transfer Target!

Jan 10, 2011, 10:07 AM

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Post #5 of 18 (5252 views)
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Re: [Mr. T] 'Big' cup shocks [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

I thought Stevenage beating Newcastle was one of the few real shocks, Ian Holloway had all but conceded Blackpool's tie at Southampton before kick off and were Sunderland or West Brom greatly bothered about going out to lower league opposition?

It really is a shame that this once great competition has become just an unwanted distraction for many clubs.


PonteCarlo
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Jan 11, 2011, 8:05 AM

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Post #6 of 18 (5127 views)
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Not the same cup, but in the Carling Cup in 2005-6 Grimsby beat Spurs 1-0 thanks to an 88th minute screamer Smile



Proud spectator of real football.

Hop, hop, hopping on heaven's door


villahopper
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Jan 12, 2011, 11:27 PM

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Post #7 of 18 (4925 views)
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I thought Stevenage beating Newcastle was one of the few real shocks, Ian Holloway had all but conceded Blackpool's tie at Southampton before kick off and were Sunderland or West Brom greatly bothered about going out to lower league opposition?

It really is a shame that this once great competition has become just an unwanted distraction for many clubs.


Couldn't agree more


Mishi
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Jan 13, 2011, 10:48 AM

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Post #8 of 18 (4872 views)
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Re: [villahopper] 'Big' cup shocks [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

It's certainly no a shame if you're a lower club beating one of the bigger clubs, in a 'First Team' competition!

Earlier this season Worthing (Isthmian One South) rested some players, & got knocked out at Enfield! (Not sure, off the top of my head which Enfield it was) Reason given by their manager was they had a 'big' league game against Whitehawk on the Tuesday! Didn't go down too well with the Worthing fans!!!!



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Isaac
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Jan 13, 2011, 11:35 AM

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Post #9 of 18 (4858 views)
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It's certainly no a shame if you're a lower club beating one of the bigger clubs, in a 'First Team' competition!

Earlier this season Worthing (Isthmian One South) rested some players, & got knocked out at Enfield! (Not sure, off the top of my head which Enfield it was) Reason given by their manager was they had a 'big' league game against Whitehawk on the Tuesday! Didn't go down too well with the Worthing fans!!!!



And of course Ian Holloway rested a lot (all?) of his first team squad for Blackpool's trip to Southampton so Saints win really cannot be seen as an upset.

Of course it could be argued that last nights win over Liverpool vindicated Olly's decision?

The problem is that league positions are where the money is, play offs, CL places etc etc.

That's why I love competitions like the FA Vase and the FA Sunday Cup, you can just see how much these competitions mean to the clubs that are involved but even the FA Trophy seems to have been 'diluted' somewhat in recent years.


Richard Rundle
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Jan 13, 2011, 12:01 PM

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Post #10 of 18 (4845 views)
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There's an article in the Racing Post today about those "upsets" - saying that had Liverpool won at Manchester United it would have been about the same sort of "shock" in terms of odds as Crawley Town beating Derby County.

--
Richard


UKPunk
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Jan 13, 2011, 1:53 PM

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Post #11 of 18 (4817 views)
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In Reply To
It's certainly no a shame if you're a lower club beating one of the bigger clubs, in a 'First Team' competition!

Earlier this season Worthing (Isthmian One South) rested some players, & got knocked out at Enfield! (Not sure, off the top of my head which Enfield it was) Reason given by their manager was they had a 'big' league game against Whitehawk on the Tuesday! Didn't go down too well with the Worthing fans!!!!



And of course Ian Holloway rested a lot (all?) of his first team squad for Blackpool's trip to Southampton so Saints win really cannot be seen as an upset.

Of course it could be argued that last nights win over Liverpool vindicated Olly's decision?

The problem is that league positions are where the money is, play offs, CL places etc etc.

That's why I love competitions like the FA Vase and the FA Sunday Cup, you can just see how much these competitions mean to the clubs that are involved but even the FA Trophy seems to have been 'diluted' somewhat in recent years.


Maybe I'm wrong, but I thought the news report on the game that I saw said that Southampton rested a lot of players as well. If that's true, would it not count as an upset still?



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Isaac
Man City Transfer Target!

Jan 13, 2011, 2:33 PM

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Post #12 of 18 (4802 views)
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Well if League One (or Division Three as I still prefer to call it) clubs are resting players then it really doesn't bode well for the future of the FA Cup.


jrev61
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Jan 13, 2011, 5:44 PM

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Post #13 of 18 (4770 views)
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There's an article in the Racing Post today about those "upsets" - saying that had Liverpool won at Manchester United it would have been about the same sort of "shock" in terms of odds as Crawley Town beating Derby County.

--
Richard

Even the bookies knew that Liverpool would be up against 12 menSmile



jrev61


SparkyRebel
First Team Sub

Jan 13, 2011, 10:04 PM

Posts: 1063
Location: Berkshire, UK
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Post #14 of 18 (4725 views)
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In Reply To

In Reply To
It's certainly no a shame if you're a lower club beating one of the bigger clubs, in a 'First Team' competition!

Earlier this season Worthing (Isthmian One South) rested some players, & got knocked out at Enfield! (Not sure, off the top of my head which Enfield it was) Reason given by their manager was they had a 'big' league game against Whitehawk on the Tuesday! Didn't go down too well with the Worthing fans!!!!



And of course Ian Holloway rested a lot (all?) of his first team squad for Blackpool's trip to Southampton so Saints win really cannot be seen as an upset.

Of course it could be argued that last nights win over Liverpool vindicated Olly's decision?

The problem is that league positions are where the money is, play offs, CL places etc etc.

That's why I love competitions like the FA Vase and the FA Sunday Cup, you can just see how much these competitions mean to the clubs that are involved but even the FA Trophy seems to have been 'diluted' somewhat in recent years.


Maybe I'm wrong, but I thought the news report on the game that I saw said that Southampton rested a lot of players as well. If that's true, would it not count as an upset still?


From what I saw on Saturday Blackpool made nine changes while Southampton made eight changes from their starting elevens from their previous league games. So both teams had multiple changes.

The bottom line is that a Level 1 team should be strong enough to beat a Level 3 team regardless of team they put out - it is disrespectful of anyone to suggest that this tie was not an upset (regardless of number of changes on either side), these teams are separated by multiple levels in the pyramid - end of story.



Up The Rebels!!!!

(This post was edited by SparkyRebel on Jan 13, 2011, 10:27 PM)


SparkyRebel
First Team Sub

Jan 13, 2011, 10:18 PM

Posts: 1063
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Post #15 of 18 (4718 views)
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It's certainly no a shame if you're a lower club beating one of the bigger clubs, in a 'First Team' competition!

Earlier this season Worthing (Isthmian One South) rested some players, & got knocked out at Enfield! (Not sure, off the top of my head which Enfield it was) Reason given by their manager was they had a 'big' league game against Whitehawk on the Tuesday! Didn't go down too well with the Worthing fans!!!!


Indeed, most Worthing fans (myself included) were extremely unhappy with the actions of our manager on this one.



Up The Rebels!!!!

(This post was edited by SparkyRebel on Jan 13, 2011, 10:28 PM)


Isaac
Man City Transfer Target!

Jan 13, 2011, 10:35 PM

Posts: 9674
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Post #16 of 18 (4709 views)
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Whilst I accept that Southampton can only beat what is put it front of them it would be ridiculous to suggest that their win over Blackpool was comparable with (for example) Colchester's famous win over Leeds back in the 70's.

There were also suggestions that Notts County winning at Sunderland wasn't a great suprise either.

Cup upsets are by definition rare events, when they happen regularly they do rather lose their appeal.


KnowYourMarket
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Jan 13, 2011, 10:56 PM

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Post #17 of 18 (4698 views)
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It's even more disrespectful that both clubs made so many changes. They wonder why "fans" are losing interest in the competition and keep bleating on about who says the "FA Cup is losing it's magic". It clearly has already lost it's magic, many clubs resting players and poor crowds as well. The FA Cup still has some magic but not as much as it should have.

I was going to go to Reading on Saturday, however, I knew my team would play an under strength side so I didn't bother. If teams treat games with contempt then so will I.



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sjosta
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Jan 14, 2011, 5:26 PM

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Post #18 of 18 (4591 views)
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"The bottom line is that a Level 1 team should be strong enough to beat a Level 3 team regardless of team they put out - it is disrespectful of anyone to suggest that this tie was not an upset (regardless of number of changes on either side), these teams are separated by multiple levels in the pyramid - end of story. "

Surely the whole competition is demeaned when teams turn out reserve sides, and there have been many. The whole mystique of the unexpected shock suddenly becomes quite commonplace. As some managers openly express their contempt of this competition, I don't see why it shouldn't be all-in from the first round proper.




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