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Southern Suburban League

 



BertD
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Nov 14, 2010, 8:34 PM

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Southern Suburban League Can't Post or Reply Privately

Has anyone found or compiled Southern Suburban League tables for pre-WWI ?

Many thanks for any help.


VP
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Nov 14, 2010, 9:25 PM

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Re: [BertD] Southern Suburban League [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

I can't help you with your request - I've just got the 1921-22 table, but do you know much about this league?
We were only in it for one season but the next season 5 of the 9 teams appeared in the first Surrey Senior League.
I'm wondering if the Southern Suburban was a precurser to that or did it continue after 1922?


BertD
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Nov 14, 2010, 9:50 PM

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Re: [VP] Southern Suburban League [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

I'll let you know what I find.

We played therein from 1902/03 until WWI then joined the Athenian League after the war, at which point our reserves played there for a couple of seasons, but we entered the Isthmian League in 1921/22 with the reserves entering the reserve section of the Isthmian League at the same time.


VP
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Nov 14, 2010, 9:56 PM

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Re: [BertD] Southern Suburban League [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

I've just had a Google. This is the one league we played in that I've never looked into. That's another job I've started...

It appears the league had a few divisions. I don't know which one were in at the time.

Redhill FC have some tables on their website. They were in the same division as Wimbledon for two seasons that I can find.

Southern Suburban League West 1913/14
POS TEAM PL W D L F A PTS
1 Old Kingstonian 22 21 - 1 68 19 42
2 Tooting 22 15 5 2 62 15 35
3 Summerstown 22 14 1 7 74 37 29
4 South Tooting 22 12 2 8 41 31 26
5 Wimbledon 22 9 3 10 36 31 21
6 Sutton United 22 8 5 9 34 38 21
7 REDHILL 22 9 2 11 32 37 20
8 (*) Kingston 22 9 1 12 27 41 17
9 Dorking 22 7 3 12 29 61 17
10 Guards Dept 22 5 5 12 22 34 15
11 Croydon 22 6 2 14 28 54 14
12 Beddington Corner 22 2 1 19 13 68 5
(*) = 2 points deducted


SOUTHERN SUBURBAN LEAGUE WEST 1912/13
POS TEAM PL W D L F A PTS
1 Old Kingstonians 22 18 4 0 53 13 40
2 Summerstown 22 14 4 4 69 30 32
3 Tooting 22 12 3 7 43 25 27
4 Croydon 22 12 1 9 41 32 25
5 Guards Depot 22 10 5 7 28 35 25
6 REDHILL 22 9 4 9 26 36 22
7 Sutton United 22 9 1 12 27 34 19
8 South Tooting 22 7 3 12 31 34 17
9 Dorking 22 6 5 11 35 44 17
10 Kingston 22 7 3 12 24 32 17
11 Beddington Corner 22 5 3 14 20 49 13
12 Wimbledon 22 4 2 16 21 53 10


http://www.webteams.co.uk/...am=redhillfcclubshop


BertD
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Nov 15, 2010, 12:41 AM

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Location: South London
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Re: [VP] Southern Suburban League [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

Thanks, just a bit of tidying up / clarification to note;

Tooting = Tooting Town
Dorking = Dorking Town
Kingston = Kingston On Thames

1913/14 Typos,
Guards Dept = Guards Depot
Old Kingstonian = Old Kingstonians

Between 1902/03 and 1909/10, at least, there were only 6 teams in the division we played in (seemingly the "Senior" division).

The "West" obviously indicates there may have been other sections, but a cursory look only shows Bromley and Cray Wanderers competing before the turn of the century.

Also interestingly, for 1911/12 I have Beddington Corner and, of course, Charlton Athletic competing, neither of whom are in the same division as Redhill, and 1920/21 an *almost* completely different set of teams, but Earlsfield Town appear in both lists...

I've only been looking at this specifically for a couple of days, so obviously further research is required.


VP
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Nov 15, 2010, 10:03 AM

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Re: [BertD] Southern Suburban League [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

On Carshalton Athletic's Wiki page they mention a Division 2 West in 1907 and a Junior Division in 1910.
In 1913 they say they won Division 1 West (the table above doesn't mention division 1 or 2), the following season it's said they won Division 1 East yet, in the same season, Croydon and Beddington Corner were in a West Division.
There doesn't seem to be many Kent teams that mention playing in it (Tunbridge Wells nearly did in 1914!) so I'm wondering who was in the East Division. It looks like it may not have been an obvious geographical split if the Carshalton / Croydon thing is anything to go by.


(This post was edited by VP on Nov 15, 2010, 10:19 AM)


Mishi
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Nov 17, 2010, 12:24 PM

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Re: [VP] Southern Suburban League [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

There is very good coverage of the Southern Suburban League, with plenty of results & league tables, though not always end of season final ones, in the archives on microfiche, of the 'South London Press'.

I don't have notes, or anything, on that period, unfortunatley, as I'm not a historian, but have read through them looking up specific things, over the years.



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BertD
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Jan 11, 2014, 12:17 AM

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Re: [VP] Southern Suburban League [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


In Reply To
I can't help you with your request - I've just got the 1921-22 table, but do you know much about this league?
We were only in it for one season but the next season 5 of the 9 teams appeared in the first Surrey Senior League.
I'm wondering if the Southern Suburban was a precurser to that or did it continue after 1922?


I've just run across an announcement for the 40th anniversary of this competition in 1937-38. By now very much a Junior level league, an incomplete list of clubs named as playing in 1936-37 are Welsh Guards, Streatham, Oxford and Bermondsey Old Boys, Veritas and Gainsford .


Ronald Price
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Jan 12, 2014, 10:14 AM

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Re: [BertD] Southern Suburban League [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

This league was indeed founded in 1897 with three divisions and has to date not been traced after 1938. It absorbed the original South London League and Camberwell & Brixton League (itself a merger)as lower divisions in 1901.

Just prior to the AFA dispute it had five or six smaller divisions, but as stated lost out to the Surrey Senior and Junior Leagues in the 1920s.

Redhill were allowed entry despite being outside the ten-mile radius from the Crystal Palace that was originally defined. They played in it for 1898/99 and 1910-1914. They won the East Senior Division in 1911/12 and the play-off for the overall title.



Ron Price


BertD
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Jan 13, 2014, 1:49 AM

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Location: South London
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Re: [Ronald Price] Southern Suburban League [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

Hi Ron,

I'm not surprised by the Camberwell or Brixton leagues, they were already effectively feeders, but I'd not seen any evidence that the South London League continued after 1897/98.

SSL: http://www.wup.me.uk/tables/SSL.htm
SLL: http://www.wup.me.uk/tables/SLL.htm

If you can help fill in any of the gaps, or point me towards your source, please let me know!


Ronald Price
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Jan 13, 2014, 9:31 AM

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Re: [BertD] Southern Suburban League [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

I attach tables for 1898/99 and 1899/00 that in part you need. I will check shortly if I have others.

My evidence re South London is a mention of the SSL in the Croydon paper inheriting the trophies of it and the Camberwell & Brixton in April 1901. Hence the reorganisation was for 1900/01. I will also check the Dulwich Hamlet 75th as I believe their officers were instrumental in this change.

The post Great War SSL may have been affected by the Wimbledon (which created a Premier) in 1921 and Thornton Heath. In 1938 a significant re-organisation in Middlesex which in the 'south west' may have affected Surrey.



Ron Price


BertD
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Jan 13, 2014, 10:20 PM

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Re: [Ronald Price] Southern Suburban League [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

Hi Ron,

No attachments on that last post, so look forward to those when you get time.

I struggle to get to Croydon, as there's no late opening in the History Centre there, so it's useful to know it'll be worth further effort to get there. So far I've mainly been restricted to the South London Press and Kentish Times and what I've found online or through here, or at the Merton History Centre, where my primary research is conducted. I'm sure there's plenty more information out there when one has the time to look for it.


Ronald Price
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Jan 14, 2014, 12:20 PM

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Re: [BertD] Southern Suburban League [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

Do you have a copy of (without going into the garage) what I think was planned as a Wimbledon centenary history. It has some early tables included.



Ron Price
Attachments: SOUTHERN SUBURBAN LEAGUE.docx (14.9 KB)


BertD
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Jan 14, 2014, 9:05 PM

Posts: 268
Location: South London
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Re: [Ronald Price] Southern Suburban League [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

Hi Ron,

Thanks for those, I'll add them to the archive.

Yes, I have the centenary book, I contributed much of the information for the pre-WWII seasons, and 25 years later I'm still here trying to fill some gaps.

The SSL and SLL research is just what I've collected or collated while looking for those missing tables.

Wimbledon related tables I'm still trying to track down are:

South London League D2 - 1894/95
Herald League - 1894/95, 1895/96
Clapham League (Senior) - 1896/97, 1899/00, 1900/01, 1903/04, 1904/05
Clapham League (D2) - 1897/98
Clapham League (D1) - 1898/99
SSL (1 West) - 1902/03, 1904/05
SSL (1 Mid) - 1905/06
SSL (1 East) - 1911/12 [goals f-a required]
West Surrey League - 1908/09
Wandsworth (& District?) League - 1912/13

And this one that included a team called St. Andrews, also from Wimbledon

SSL (Junior) - 1910/11

There are a few more that f-a don't add up correctly, but most of those are on the SSL web page.

Always thankful for any help!


BertD
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Jan 25, 2014, 12:15 AM

Posts: 268
Location: South London
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Re: [Ronald Price] Southern Suburban League [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


In Reply To
This league was indeed founded in 1897 with three divisions and has to date not been traced after 1938.


I've now found an announcement for a Southern Suburban League representative game to be played against "Parade of Guards" at Plough Lane on Good Friday 1939.


Ronald Price
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Jan 25, 2014, 9:43 AM

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Re: [BertD] Southern Suburban League [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

Good detective work - if some of the clubs in 1938/39 can be identified - it may be possible to identify their 45/46 or 46/47 leagues. Again the Surrey FA made great efforts to reinforce its Intermediate League after the War- which may be why it did not restart??



Ron Price


bazdix
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Nov 30, 2014, 10:22 AM

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Re: [Ronald Price] Southern Suburban League [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

Hi,
Just discovered this site and what a brilliant site it is.
Reason I came across it is that I googled 'Southern Suburban League' as I collect football memorabilia and have just come across 2 x medals for:
- Division 1A 'Winners' 1908 / 09 (silver) and
- general 'Southern Suburban Football League 1912/13
The guy also played for Charlton Amateurs as I have one of his other medals but I do not know if the above two are also in relation to this team but there is a fair chance I reckon.
Does anyone have any tables from these seasons?
Would like to hear from anyone who does.
Regards, Barry



Barry Dixey
Collector & Dealer in Football Memorabilia
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pitch 63
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Nov 30, 2014, 1:35 PM

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Re: [bazdix] Southern Suburban League [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

I set out below a little bit of info, which might of some help - SEASON 1908-09 SENIOR DIVISION 1 CATFORD SOUTHEND 10 7 0 3 24 15 14 2 CRAY WANDERERS 10 6 2 2 23 16 14 3 ORPINGTON 10 5 1 4 22 15 11 4 PLUMSTEAD ST JOHNS 10 3 2 5 16 15 8 5 FOOTS CRAY 10 3 2 5 10 19 8 6 WOOLWICH POLYTECHNIC 10 2 1 7 10 25 5 DIVISION 1A 1 LANSDOWNE 12 12 0 0 62 10 24 2 BROMLEY RESERVES 11 5 4 2 34 20 14 3 WOOLWICH POLYTECHNIC RESERVES 12 5 2 5 15 30 12 4 WAYGOOD 12 5 1 6 19 34 11 5 NUNHEAD RESERVES 11 4 1 6 29 19 9 6 LUDGATE CIRCUS 12 3 1 8 32 44 7 7 WEST NORWOOD RESERVES 12 1 3 8 13 47 5 DIVISION 1B 1 TOOTING GRAVENEY 14 11 0 3 31 18 22 2 BECKENHAM ROVERS 14 9 1 4 34 22 19 3 DULWICH HAMLET RESERVES 14 8 1 5 43 36 17 4 BEDDINGTON CORNER 14 7 1 6 29 22 15 5 WEST BECKENHAM 14 6 2 6 28 25 14 6 SUTTON UNITED 14 5 0 9 24 24 10 7 BRIGHTON RAILWAY ATHLETIC 14 3 3 8 30 36 9 8 TOOTING CHURCH INSTITUTE 14 3 0 11 13 49 6 DIVISION 1C 1 KINGSTON-ON-THAMES 12 9 1 2 33 14 19 2 MERTON ABBEY 12 8 1 3 28 17 17 3 SUMMERSTOWN RESERVES 11 7 2 2 26 16 16 4 NORTH CROYDON 12 6 0 6 11 19 12 5 OAKLEIGH 11 5 1 5 13 20 11 6 ROSSLYN 12 3 0 9 9 32 6 7 ST MARYS RECREATION 12 0 1 11 6 8 1 DIVISION 1D 1 LEIGHAM UNITED 12 11 0 1 38 11 22 2 BARODA 12 9 2 1 41 8 20 3 KINGSTON-ON-THAMES RESERVES 12 6 2 4 20 26 14 4 21ST CITY OF LONDON 12 5 0 7 20 32 10 5 MAVIS 12 3 2 7 18 31 8 6 SOUTH NORWOOD 12 1 4 7 14 32 6 7 WIMBLEDON RESERVES 12 1 2 9 16 27 4 SEASON 1912-13 SENIOR EASTERN DIVISION 1 BRONZE ATHLETIC 20 17 1 2 70 14 35 2 ARMY SERVICE CORPS 20 13 4 3 42 15 30 3 2ND GRENADIER GUARDS 20 11 3 6 48 18 25 4 METROGAS 20 8 4 8 35 29 20 5 WEST NORWOOD RESERVES 20 9 2 9 43 47 20 6 ARMY ORDNANCE CORPS 20 8 3 9 26 33 19 7 BROMLEY 20 7 3 10 31 38 17 8 NUNHEAD RESERVES 20 7 3 10 31 47 17 9 BRABYS IRONWORKS 20 5 5 10 18 35 15 10 CATFORD SOUTHEND RESERVES 20 6 0 14 19 66 12 11 DULWICH HAMLET RESERVES 20 2 6 12 22 43 10 SENIOR WESTERN DIVISION 1 OLD KINGSTONIANS 22 18 4 0 53 13 40 2 SUMMERSTOWN 22 14 4 4 69 30 32 3 TOOTING TOWN 22 12 3 7 43 25 27 4 CROYDON 22 12 1 9 41 32 25 5 GUARDS DEPOT 22 10 5 7 28 35 25 6 REDHILL 22 9 4 9 26 36 22 7 SUTTON UNITED 22 9 1 12 27 34 19 8 SOUTH TOOTING 22 7 3 12 31 34 17 9 DORKING TOWN 22 6 5 11 35 44 17 10 KINGSTON ON THAMES 22 7 3 12 24 32 17 11 BEDDINGTON CORNER 22 5 3 14 20 49 13 12 WIMBLEDON 22 4 2 16 21 53 10 DIVISION 1 EAST no details other than a list of clubs ALBANY INVICTA CHARLTON ATHLETIC DULWICH HAMLET "A" SUTTON UNITED RESERVES WEST BECKENHAM DIVISION 1 WEST 1 CARSHALTON ATHLETIC 10 9 1 0 24 6 19 2 SUMMERSTOWN RESERVES 10 7 1 2 24 11 15 3 CRUSADERS 8 5 1 2 13 5 11 4 ROSSLYN ATHLETIC 12 4 2 5 11 22 11* 5 BARODA 9 4 0 5 13 10 8 6 WORCESTER PARK 10 3 2 5 12 12 8 7 2ND GRENADIER GUARDS RESERVES 11 3 2 6 18 26 8 8 EPSOM 10 0 0 10 3 26 0


(This post was edited by pitch 63 on Nov 30, 2014, 1:37 PM)


bazdix
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Nov 30, 2014, 8:36 PM

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Re: [pitch 63] Southern Suburban League [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

Many thanks for that.
So this guy must have played for:
DIVISION 1A Winners:
LANSDOWNE 12 12 0 0 62 10 24
Not a bad season, won every game scoring an average of over 5 per game.
Have to find out a bit about them now!



Barry Dixey
Collector & Dealer in Football Memorabilia
07887 808102


E&E Fred
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Dec 4, 2014, 8:17 PM

Posts: 264
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Re: [pitch 63] Southern Suburban League [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

Nice work on the tables!

As an Epsom historian I knew our record but the latest table I had for 1912/13 was inclusive of 8th March. Do you have any idea of the date of that table or a source please?

Thanks

Rich



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BertD
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Dec 10, 2014, 11:51 PM

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Re: [E&E Fred] Southern Suburban League [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

I'd be interested in the source too, unfortunately there are a mismatched number of draws in the Division One West table.


BertD
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Apr 9, 2018, 7:31 PM

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Re: [BertD] Southern Suburban League [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

Still plodding along on this one. I've found mention of a representative match against Surrey Wanderers, but no details other than two players each from Deptford Town and Cray Wanderers played. It must have been in October 1897 and probably midweek. Any more info out there?

Thanks.


bmccoll
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Apr 9, 2018, 8:51 PM

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Re: [BertD] Southern Suburban League [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

Played on 20 Oct 1897 at Guildford, Surrey Wdrs winning 6-1. Attached is a match report with full line-ups on page 4 of the Sportsman dated 21 Oct 1897



http://www.scottish-football-historical-archive.co.nf/

(This post was edited by bmccoll on Apr 9, 2018, 8:58 PM)
Attachments: sm.jpg (127 KB)


BertD
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Apr 10, 2018, 8:43 PM

Posts: 268
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Re: [bmccoll] Southern Suburban League [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

Wonderful, thanks Brian.

 
 


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