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Home: All Other Football Interests: All other football:
World Cup money & FIFA's thuggishness

 



rainjar
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Jun 16, 2010, 8:02 AM

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World Cup money & FIFA's thuggishness Can't Post or Reply Privately

On BBC News:
Fifa will pocket the vast majority of the money raised by the sale of media rights and global sponsorship deals as well as some of the income from ticket sales.

South Africa, on the other hand, will be paying the costs.

There are few cast iron laws in economics but one seems to hold - the organisers of sporting mega-events always overestimate the economic benefits and underestimate the costs.Yet, even in an era of global economic uncertainty, governments are falling over themselves to host tournaments.

Ten countries, grouped in eight bids, are fighting to host the World Cup in 2018 and 2022.

They are all armed with reports and projections from management consultants and all believe that they can put on the show at a reasonable cost, returned many times over by the economic benefits that come from hosting.

History, however, suggests a different outcome. Japan's gigantic infrastructure programme for the 2002 World Cup, for one, barely shifted its sluggish economy.

The 2000 Sydney Olympics, it was argued, would transform future visitor numbers to the city but they have remained static.

Then, four years later, the Athens games were going to be put on for $1.5bn (1bn); that ended up costing 10 times as much.
So why exactly is England bidding for the 2018 World Cup?

And FIFA are prepared to act like thugs to protect their turf:
Stewards ejected 36 Dutch supporters from Monday's match between the Netherlands and Denmark midway through the second half in Johannesburg.

All were dressed identically in tightly hugging short orange dresses, sold as part of a gift pack by a Dutch brewery. ....

The women, seated near the front, were picked up by TV cameras.

"What seems to have happened is that there was a clear ambush marketing activity by a Dutch brewery company," said Fifa spokesman Nicholas Maingot.

"What we are doing actually at the moment is that we are looking into all available legal remedies
against this brewery."

....

... they were reportedly taken to a Fifa office where police quizzed them about the dresses and asked if they worked for the brewery, Bavaria.

Bavaria board member Peer Swinkels told Reuters news agency that Fifa's reaction was "ridiculous".

"Fifa does not have the monopoly on orange and people have the freedom to wear what they want," he said.
Judge for yourselves:


PS. Don't the police have better things to do?





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(This post was edited by rainjar on Jun 16, 2010, 9:31 AM)


mip
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Jun 16, 2010, 9:37 AM

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Re: [rainjar] World Cup money & FIFA's thuggishness [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

The latter sounds like the Leeuwenhosen incident http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leeuwenhosen.

Why didn't the police just ask them to remove the dresses as they did with the Leeuwenhosen Wink?


(This post was edited by mip on Jun 16, 2010, 9:39 AM)


paulh66
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In Reply To

And FIFA are prepared to act like thugs to protect their turf:
Stewards ejected 36 Dutch supporters from Monday's match between the Netherlands and Denmark midway through the second half in Johannesburg.

All were dressed identically in tightly hugging short orange dresses, sold as part of a gift pack by a Dutch brewery. ....

The women, seated near the front, were picked up by TV cameras.

"What seems to have happened is that there was a clear ambush marketing activity by a Dutch brewery company," said Fifa spokesman Nicholas Maingot.

"What we are doing actually at the moment is that we are looking into all available legal remedies
against this brewery."

....

... they were reportedly taken to a Fifa office where police quizzed them about the dresses and asked if they worked for the brewery, Bavaria.

Bavaria board member Peer Swinkels told Reuters news agency that Fifa's reaction was "ridiculous".

"Fifa does not have the monopoly on orange and people have the freedom to wear what they want," he said.
PS. Don't the police have better things to do?



At first I agreed with you and I really don't like the excessive FIFA stranglehold on all aspects of merchandising around the World Cup. BUT..... when it transpires that a TV pundit is passing tickets onto a marketing company to carry out the ambush marketing scheme, I begin to loose sympathy with all concerned: http://www.guardian.co.uk/...cup-itv-robbie-earle

Basically, it's all starting to sound like a cynical marketing ploy off the back of illegal ticket touting. And, while it obviously achieved its aim of giving the brewery some publicity, maybe the police are right to be involved after all?

Although, as for police tactics in dealing with it, I much prefer mip's idea... Wink


rainjar
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Jun 16, 2010, 11:45 AM

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Re: [paulh66] World Cup money & FIFA's thuggishness [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

Unlike in 2006, there is no mention of a logo on the clothing.

If a Dutch brewery pays for a group of attractive female Dutch fans to attend a match in orange, FIFA should learn the law has limits.

If the issue is that the tickets were touted, that's a separate matter, but that doesn't appear to be what FIFA are complaining about. It appears to have been discovered subsequently.



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(This post was edited by rainjar on Jun 16, 2010, 11:47 AM)


paulh66
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Jun 16, 2010, 12:16 PM

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Re: [rainjar] World Cup money & FIFA's thuggishness [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

I'm certainly not going to speak up in favour of FIFA but I suspect they believe they know where the legal limits are, which is why they got the police involved. In reality, though, and following on from the tussles between FIFA and Kulula airways before the tournament, this may be another example of the legal limits themselves being rather blurred - at what point is an "image" (1) created and (2) protectable?

As you say, on the face of it how can 36 Dutch blondes wearing logo-less orange dresses infringe anything; on the other hand, it could be argued that it was a move intended to create an image heavily associated with a non-official sponsor - and one which has succeeded.

It's all depressingly ugly (except for said Dutch ladies) and, while it's tempting to side with anyone who takes on a body such as FIFA, I don't feel either side comes out of it with any credit. Still, I'm sure a bunch of image consultants and lawyers will make a few bob out of it all.

EDIT: As for the tickets, I'm not sure they could be considered to be a separate issue - such a flash marketing scheme could only work if someone had over-ridden the controls over ticket allocations so I'm sure FIFA would have wanted to get to the bottom of that. Though I agree FIFA appear to have remained silent on this - not surprising given it is their systems that presumably allow a TV pundit to receive 40 tickets for a game in the first place....


(This post was edited by paulh66 on Jun 16, 2010, 12:58 PM)


rainjar
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Jun 16, 2010, 1:07 PM

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Re: [paulh66] World Cup money & FIFA's thuggishness [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

I wouldn't be surprised if FIFA got the South African government to pass anti-"ambush marketing" laws in conjunction with awarding the country the World Cup.

Unless the South African law goes further than in other countries, I don't think the law is on the side of FIFA. Of course, even before the courts of a European country, it might be possible to frame a legal argument, however tenuous, that Bavaria have breached FIFA's rights. That's the nature of legal argument - you can usually find some way to frame an argument that won't be summarily dismissed - that's why lawyers make so much money.

Ultimately, FIFA are marking out their territory, in the way of thugs, to warn off anyone else who might think of crossing them, either in this World Cup or a future World Cup. Sometimes, even thugs use the law.

The better gauge of what amounts to thuggish behaviour is common sense, and not necessarily the law.



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Richard Rundle
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Jun 16, 2010, 3:27 PM

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Re: [rainjar] World Cup money & FIFA's thuggishness [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

The "policing" of their tournament may well be over the top, but to call it "thuggish" also seems a massive over-reaction

--
Richard


rainjar
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Jun 16, 2010, 4:14 PM

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Re: [Richard Rundle] World Cup money & FIFA's thuggishness [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

Going back to the first part of my first post, Andrew Jennings' website always makes for interesting reading.



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leohoenig
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Jun 16, 2010, 8:20 PM

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Re: [rainjar] World Cup money & FIFA's thuggishness [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

Andrew Jennings is a mistake.
I love the fact he prints copies of interviews with himself with titles that suggest it may be some new take.

The problem is, to quote the interview, "In the book, he makes some startling allegations..."
I have read the book, and it is true that he makes startling allegations. Not only that, I am sure he is right, FIFA is a corrupt organisation
But Jennings has failed to push home. In the book, he makes more and more accusations, but publishes little in the way of evidence.

The book mentioned claims that FIFA tried to ban it. In actuality, FIFA were only worried about the book until they read it.
FIFA deserves an investigative journalist capable of digging up the real dirt, and digging deep to pick get to the roots of the matter
Jennings merely disturbs the dirt. He can see its dirty, but not why.



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VP
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Re: [leohoenig] World Cup money & FIFA's thuggishness [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

The girls in the orange dresses weren't all Dutch. Most of them were local South Africans according to several reports.
The company involved knew exactly what they were doing but, as they say, there's no such thing as bad publicity.


rainjar
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Jun 17, 2010, 5:29 PM

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Re: [VP] World Cup money & FIFA's thuggishness [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

On a BBC Sport blog:
In 2006, two years after winning the race to stage this World Cup, South Africa passed a new law - the Merchandise Marks Act - designed to safeguard Fifa's intellectual property rights and prevent the sort of ambush marketing Fifa says Bavaria attempted.

Britain already has such laws, introduced following London's successful bid to stage the 2012 Olympics. But, with an even more highly developed commercial market in the United Kingdom, Fifa will want even firmer assurances that its ability to make money will not be hindered in any way if the 2018 World Cup is awarded to England in December.
Comment No. 10 on the same blog:
When corporations and organisations get laws passed which can effectively make it illegal for people to wear certain clothes in certain areas, isn't that the final indication that they have far too much power?

How does that law benefit the citizens of the country it has been passed in?
Not just power, but the abuse of power.

Don't politicians have more important things to do than pass over-zealous laws intended solely or primarily to secure the wealth of the behemoths that are the IOC and FIFA?



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rainjar
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Jul 12, 2010, 4:28 AM

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On BBC News:
..., his grandson said Fifa had put Mr Mandela under "extreme pressure" to attend the game in Johannesburg.

Mandla Mandela said the engagement would be "strenuous" for the 91-year-old, who is increasingly frail.




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Garrincha's dog
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Re: [rainjar] World Cup money & FIFA's thuggishness [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

Not a problem, the President of the World was there, Blatter. An equally respected figure on a global stage.

Not quite sure why Zuma had to be holding his hand while Le Grande Fromage was handing the trophy over to the victorious Spanish.

As the South Africans apparently like him so much, perhaps Fuhrer Blatter might consider staying?


rainjar
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Re: [leohoenig] World Cup money & FIFA's thuggishness [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


In Reply To
Andrew Jennings is a mistake.
I love the fact he prints copies of interviews with himself with titles that suggest it may be some new take.

The problem is, to quote the interview, "In the book, he makes some startling allegations..."
I have read the book, and it is true that he makes startling allegations. Not only that, I am sure he is right, FIFA is a corrupt organisation
But Jennings has failed to push home. In the book, he makes more and more accusations, but publishes little in the way of evidence.

The book mentioned claims that FIFA tried to ban it. In actuality, FIFA were only worried about the book until they read it.
FIFA deserves an investigative journalist capable of digging up the real dirt, and digging deep to pick get to the roots of the matter
Jennings merely disturbs the dirt. He can see its dirty, but not why.


The latest on the vote buying on the BBC site:


Quote
"Football's world governing body is investigating allegations two of its officials offered to sell their votes.

Reporters from The Sunday Times posed as lobbyists for a consortium of American companies who wanted to bring the tournament to the United States.

....

A statement from Fifa read: "Fifa and the Fifa ethics committee have closely monitored the bidding process for the 2018 and 2022 Fifa World Cups and will continue to do so.

....

Former sports minister Richard Caborn told the BBC he was pleased Fifa's ethics committee was looking into the corruption allegations as a matter of urgency.

He said: "It is operational. It is effective. It is transparent. And I'm pleased to see that Fifa has acted decisively on this. We shall await the outcome.""


So what exactly was FIFA ethics committee doing before the Times journalists got to work?

Would any corruption be detected without the work of journalists?



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(This post was edited by rainjar on Oct 17, 2010, 4:32 PM)


leohoenig
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Re: [rainjar] World Cup money & FIFA's thuggishness [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

I have made a post with various comments on this story, and the (probably unconnected) fact that the USA have pulled out of bidding for 2018, forcing 2018 to be in Europe (and 2022 to not be).

I am limited in my comments. I have not read the Sunday Times report, only the BBC report on the allegations. However, it appears to be entrapment of a different type to that used by Sun journalists on cricketers. The trouble is that that there is no proof that the people in question actually took any bribes. In the cricket case, the victims of the scam were persuaded to admit having already taken bribes.

Can't some journalist investigate the real centre of corruption connected to FIFA. The Goal Projects?



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rainjar
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Re: [rainjar] World Cup money & FIFA's thuggishness [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


In Reply To
On a BBC Sport blog:
In 2006, two years after winning the race to stage this World Cup, South Africa passed a new law - the Merchandise Marks Act - designed to safeguard Fifa's intellectual property rights and prevent the sort of ambush marketing Fifa says Bavaria attempted.

Britain already has such laws, introduced following London's successful bid to stage the 2012 Olympics. But, with an even more highly developed commercial market in the United Kingdom, Fifa will want even firmer assurances that its ability to make money will not be hindered in any way if the 2018 World Cup is awarded to England in December.
Comment No. 10 on the same blog:
When corporations and organisations get laws passed which can effectively make it illegal for people to wear certain clothes in certain areas, isn't that the final indication that they have far too much power?

How does that law benefit the citizens of the country it has been passed in?
Not just power, but the abuse of power.

Don't politicians have more important things to do than pass over-zealous laws intended solely or primarily to secure the wealth of the behemoths that are the IOC and FIFA?


More. FIFA is a registered charity.


Quote
Fifa pays little tax in its home country of Switzerland. It also requires tax exemption in countries wishing to host a World Cup competition. "Any host country requires a comprehensive tax exemption to be given to Fifa and further parties involved in the hosting and staging of an event," a Fifa spokesman told the BBC last year. The 2010 tournament - the most expensive yet - cost South Africa 33bn rand (3bn; $4.86bn). But a "tax-free bubble" was established around the event at Fifa's request, relieving Fifa, its subsidiaries, and foreign football associations of any obligation to pay income tax, customs duties or VAT.




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blackdouglas
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In Reply To

In Reply To
On a BBC Sport blog:
In 2006, two years after winning the race to stage this World Cup, South Africa passed a new law - the Merchandise Marks Act - designed to safeguard Fifa's intellectual property rights and prevent the sort of ambush marketing Fifa says Bavaria attempted.

Britain already has such laws, introduced following London's successful bid to stage the 2012 Olympics. But, with an even more highly developed commercial market in the United Kingdom, Fifa will want even firmer assurances that its ability to make money will not be hindered in any way if the 2018 World Cup is awarded to England in December.
Comment No. 10 on the same blog:
When corporations and organisations get laws passed which can effectively make it illegal for people to wear certain clothes in certain areas, isn't that the final indication that they have far too much power?

How does that law benefit the citizens of the country it has been passed in?
Not just power, but the abuse of power.

Don't politicians have more important things to do than pass over-zealous laws intended solely or primarily to secure the wealth of the behemoths that are the IOC and FIFA?


More. FIFA is a registered charity.


Quote
Fifa pays little tax in its home country of Switzerland. It also requires tax exemption in countries wishing to host a World Cup competition. "Any host country requires a comprehensive tax exemption to be given to Fifa and further parties involved in the hosting and staging of an event," a Fifa spokesman told the BBC last year. The 2010 tournament - the most expensive yet - cost South Africa 33bn rand (3bn; $4.86bn). But a "tax-free bubble" was established around the event at Fifa's request, relieving Fifa, its subsidiaries, and foreign football associations of any obligation to pay income tax, customs duties or VAT.



Talk about Double Standards. Fifa insists governments don't interfere with National FAs running the game, yet wants to dictate a portion of a government's of tax policy should the country be awarded the world cup.



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