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The World Cup so far

 

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Whiskey Coates
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Jul 13, 2010, 12:40 AM

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Post #226 of 242 (3250 views)
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Re: [rainjar] The World Cup so far [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

so who do you think did deserve to win? it's ok spouting on about how many goals germany scored, but spain stopped them scoring while scoring one of their own at the same time. i thought germany were great, but i also thought they lost fair-and-square to spain. getting a bit fed-up of this now.

didn't brian clough say that the team who scores the most goals deserves to win? my thoughts exactly, therefor spain and holland deserved to be in the final and you can't argue with the result.


buncranaboy
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Jul 13, 2010, 12:57 AM

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Post #227 of 242 (3243 views)
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Re: [rainjar] The World Cup so far [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


In Reply To

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Spain were the lowest scoring winners in World Cup history scoring only 8 goals in 7 games, Germany scored 16 in 7.


Nevertheless, the hyperbole has started - "worthy winners" and all that.

Before the tournament started, I would have gone with Spain or Argentina to win, and as Spain hadn't won the World Cup before, I'd have preferred them over Argentina. A final against Brazil or England perhaps. Wink

However, apart from 0-1 defeat to Switzerland, Spain were hardly impressive against South American opponents, Chile and Paraguay:
"Vicente del Bosque's side have still not clicked in South Africa - and the South Americans put them under real pressure before being controversially reduced to 10 men just before half-time in Pretoria."
"Spain may have reached a World Cup semi-final for the first time - their fourth place in 1950 was after a round-robin stage - but they will surely need to improve if they are to defeat in-form Germany in Durban on Wednesday.

Their famed passing game was largely absent, while the out-of-form Fernando Torres was withdrawn after 56 minutes."
They hardly overwhelmed an off-colour Portugal in the last 16 and Germany didn't really turn up for the semi-finals.

Their opponents in the final had destroyed whatever goodwill there was towards them by their cynical approach over several matches, which also served to elevate Spain to popular winners.

So the luck of the draw, a couple of decent performances and a few narrow wins is enough to be World champions for 4 years. Laughable, but no different from most previous World Cups.

In the match report for the game against Chile, it was also stated that "After dominating possession but failing to score in that surprise 1-0 loss to the Swiss, Spain vowed they would not sacrifice their rich attacking instincts for a win-at-all costs philosophy."

Only 8 goals scored and only 1 conceded in the next 6 games would suggest otherwise.

A cynical world body's cynical tournament deserves a cynical winner.

And no, I'm not sore about being bettered by Paul The Octopus. Cool

I'm glad I didn't watch much of the World Cup this time - maybe about 20 to 30 minutes of about 9 or 10 matches, highlights of a couple more, but no part of the final.



Rainjar - you're very good at quoting other sources - not always checking their accuracy, it has to be added - and now you give us your resume of the World Cup whilst admitting that you watched hardly any of it yourself? You could at least credit those whose opinions you spout.

Spain did actually spend most of their games in possession and trying to score, perhaps too often trying to score the perfect goal. I haven't seen the "shots tally" from the WC but I'd imagine it would place the Spanish pretty high in an attempts per game table.

When it mattered and against the teams who had been easier on the eye in previous games, it was Spain who were better and easier on the eye too. It's too glib to say that the Germans had an off day against them. True, they missed Mueller but they had run out of ideas long before the end because they couldn't get enough ball.


rainjar
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Jul 13, 2010, 1:25 AM

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Post #228 of 242 (3237 views)
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Re: [Whiskey Coates] The World Cup so far [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


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so who do you think did deserve to win? ....


Switzerland? They did after all beat Spain. Wink



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(This post was edited by rainjar on Jul 13, 2010, 1:30 AM)


rainjar
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Jul 13, 2010, 1:30 AM

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Post #229 of 242 (3236 views)
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Re: [buncranaboy] The World Cup so far [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

Personally, I don't think any country deserved to win the World Cup, but that's not the first time I've reached that view at the end of a World Cup, but then, I don't think there should be a World Cup, not in its current format anyway.

I have to admit that as far as the World Cup is concerned, I'm a cynic. Smile

It wouldn't be my preferred format, but even the Unofficial Football World Championships make more sense than the World Cup in determining world champions. Having beaten the Netherlands (the previous UFWC champions), Spain are now UFWC champions, but they hold the title only until they lose their next match, which should be well before the next World Cup in 2014.



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(This post was edited by rainjar on Jul 13, 2010, 5:16 AM)


leohoenig
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Jul 13, 2010, 3:20 AM

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Post #230 of 242 (3227 views)
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Re: [rainjar] The World Cup so far [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


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I'm glad I didn't watch much of the World Cup this time - maybe about 20 to 30 minutes of about 9 or 10 matches, highlights of a couple more, but no part of the final.


So considering the number of posts, you have spent far longer writing posts about the tournament, then watching it?



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rainjar
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Jul 13, 2010, 5:14 AM

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Post #231 of 242 (3223 views)
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Re: [leohoenig] The World Cup so far [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


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....

So considering the number of posts, you have spent far longer writing posts about the tournament, then watching it?


Not that many posts specifically about the World Cup, and I write quite fast, so I'd say about the same amount of time at most. Sly

But I've definitely spent more time reading about the World Cup than watching it.

As I've stated elsewhere, these days, I'd rather play football or read about football, rather than watching it on media outlets such as TV.



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(This post was edited by rainjar on Jul 13, 2010, 5:15 AM)


buncranaboy
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Jul 13, 2010, 12:08 PM

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Post #232 of 242 (3196 views)
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Re: [rainjar] The World Cup so far [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

Looking at your "adverts" - don't you think it's difficult to have a meaningful insight into something you don't watch and therefore you find yourself basing your conclusions on reading about what other people say they have watched.......?


rainjar
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Jul 13, 2010, 1:41 PM

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Post #233 of 242 (3178 views)
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Re: [buncranaboy] The World Cup so far [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

I've found myself watching less and less top level football over the past year.

Do you have to watch top level football to understand football?

Anyway, I hardly ever discuss particular matches. As for particular events during a game, you can sometimes catch them on Youtube and the like.

Also, apart from particular incidents in particular matches (and even there, it depends on perspective - what you see if you're at the ground may be very different from what you catch on TV), how much first hand knowledge do any of us have about what goes on in football?

Further, more important matters than football are based on "what other people say", for example:
  • A person may be deprived of liberty or assets by a court of law based on the testimony of witnesses - "what other people say".
  • History is often based on multiple hearsay.
The reliability or credibility of the source is a different matter from relying on a source per se.

PS. When I quote, I always add a link to the source.



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(This post was edited by rainjar on Jul 13, 2010, 2:27 PM)


buncranaboy
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Jul 13, 2010, 4:29 PM

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Post #234 of 242 (3156 views)
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Re: [rainjar] The World Cup so far [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


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In Reply To
Spain were the lowest scoring winners in World Cup history scoring only 8 goals in 7 games, Germany scored 16 in 7.


Nevertheless, the hyperbole has started - "worthy winners" and all that.

They hardly overwhelmed an off-colour Portugal in the last 16 and Germany didn't really turn up for the semi-finals.

Their opponents in the final had destroyed whatever goodwill there was towards them by their cynical approach over several matches, which also served to elevate Spain to popular winners.

So the luck of the draw, a couple of decent performances and a few narrow wins is enough to be World champions for 4 years. Laughable, but no different from most previous World Cups.

In the match report for the game against Chile, it was also stated that "After dominating possession but failing to score in that surprise 1-0 loss to the Swiss, Spain vowed they would not sacrifice their rich attacking instincts for a win-at-all costs philosophy."

Only 8 goals scored and only 1 conceded in the next 6 games would suggest otherwise.

A cynical world body's cynical tournament deserves a cynical winner.

And no, I'm not sore about being bettered by Paul The Octopus. Cool

I'm glad I didn't watch much of the World Cup this time - maybe about 20 to 30 minutes of about 9 or 10 matches, highlights of a couple more, but no part of the final.


Who were you quoting in the highlighted paragraphs as it appears to be your opinion. Based on others opinions, of course.

Off-colour or not, Portugal is a derby match for Spain and therefore not the average game. Germany didn't turn up - says who ? They were outclassed, like it or not.

Luck of the draw ? For who exactly ? Spain won their group and ended up playing who they expected to be playing with the possible exception of the Final.
And as for your quirky notions of who should be world champions - how did Holland be up there to be "knocked off" by Spain considering they lost to Australia in the build-up Tongue


UKPunk
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Jul 13, 2010, 8:58 PM

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Post #235 of 242 (3129 views)
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Re: [Isaac] The World Cup so far [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


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Sadly you forgot to mention cheating, diving, feigning injury and waving imaginary cards at referee's.

You mean like Holland (Robben) Portugal (Pepe and Ronaldo) and many others.

The only team I don't remember indulging in cheating are North Korea. Crazy



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rainjar
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Jul 14, 2010, 12:50 AM

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Post #236 of 242 (3105 views)
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Re: [buncranaboy] The World Cup so far [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

That is a conclusion, based on what I watched and what I read.

Quotes are generally within quotation marks or indented.

The luck of the draw is the draw for the group stage, which not only decides the countries to be played in the group stage, but in the knock-out phase as well.

We can disagree.

My post wasn't about Spain. To be honest, I don't really care too much who won, or for the World Cup as it currently is. You might even agree that had they won, the Netherlands would have been more cynical winners than Spain.

It is about the hyperbole that is starting to build up over Spain's victory, that may in time, elevate them to one of the greatest winners of all time. Perhaps there have been so many poor winners in the past that Spain deserve to be so elevated. To me, however, there is a certain sameness about most World Cups - the luck of the draw, and a couple of decent performances at the right time. A bit like any other cup competition.

As for Australia, wasn't it a win over Denmark? If it were the Netherlands, all the journalists and reporters would have gotten it seriously wrong in talking about their 25 match unbeaten run before the final. And Australia would have taken the UFWC title. Sly



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(This post was edited by rainjar on Jul 14, 2010, 1:23 AM)


East Fork Utd
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Jul 14, 2010, 3:40 AM

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Post #237 of 242 (3089 views)
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Re: [rainjar] The World Cup so far [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

I enjoyed this edition of the World Cup. After the first round games of the group stage, the tournament really heated up. Several matches had late-game drama that really added to the excitement: New Zealand scoring at the death to tie Slovakia on Winston Reid's header, Asamoah Gyan's penalty miss on the last kick against Uruguay, Diego Forlan's free kick miss on the last kick of the game that could have tied Germany in the 3rd place match, Landon Donovan's stoppage time goal against Algeria, and Serbia's desperation in Nelspruit to tie Australia which would have seen them and not Ghana advance to the knockout stages. Sure, there were plenty of missed calls by the refs and botched plays by the guys on the field, but the crowds were into just about every game played. Some of the matches were sprinkled with controversy, but aren't those some of the reasons we post our thoughts on sites such as this? Ironically, many fans seemed to think the officiating for the first round games was pretty good, but as the games got better in the subsequent stages, the quality of the officiating seemed to drop! The 2010 Final wasn't as good as 2006, but it wasn't as one-sided an affair as 1998 and 2002. It was certainly more entertaining and provided many more talking points than the 1994 Final.


buncranaboy
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Jul 14, 2010, 12:49 PM

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Post #238 of 242 (3055 views)
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Re: [rainjar] The World Cup so far [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


In Reply To

As for Australia, wasn't it a win over Denmark? If it were the Netherlands, all the journalists and reporters would have gotten it seriously wrong in talking about their 25 match unbeaten run before the final. And Australia would have taken the UFWC title. Sly



Holland's last defeat before the WC was against Australia in Eindhoven in September 2008 by 2-1. Holland have never beaten Australia.


rainjar
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Jul 14, 2010, 1:30 PM

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Post #239 of 242 (3046 views)
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Re: [buncranaboy] The World Cup so far [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


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.... how did Holland be up there to be "knocked off" by Spain considering they lost to Australia in the build-up Tongue


and


In Reply To
....

Holland's last defeat before the WC was against Australia in Eindhoven in September 2008 by 2-1. Holland have never beaten Australia.


I didn't realise the "build up" went back almost 2 years. Shocked



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buncranaboy
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Jul 14, 2010, 1:38 PM

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Post #240 of 242 (3040 views)
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Re: [rainjar] The World Cup so far [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

Isn't that what the qualifying process is?

Luckily for Holland, Australia weren't in their qualifying group, but who's to say that won't happen in future.

I take it you're as cynical about other major cyclical tournaments as well, such as the Euro's or the Rugby World Cup as examples.

I reckon you're one of those Scots who claimed to be world champions in 1967........Cool


rainjar
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Jul 16, 2010, 7:34 AM

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Post #241 of 242 (2982 views)
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Re: [buncranaboy] The World Cup so far [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

The "build up" to qualification - that's an interesting concept. What about the prelude to the build up to qualification for the World Cup Finals? Drag it out as much as possible, and milk it for every cent (or penny) that it is worth. I'm sure FIFA would love to.

My criticism was the "hyperbole", and I doubt any other four-yearly tournament beats the "hyperbole" of the World Cup - neither the Rugby World Cup or the European Championships does. The World Cup produces far more hot air globally than it does sporting or competitive merit.

A Scot wouldn't favour a Great Britain national team, would he?



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(This post was edited by rainjar on Jul 16, 2010, 7:35 AM)


southend statto
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Jul 30, 2010, 1:06 PM

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Post #242 of 242 (2786 views)
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Re: [Isaac] The World Cup so far [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

Been thinking about this one Isaac and have to say a 3rd/4th place play-off game must be one of the most pointless matches * going. If you ware a player and had just lost a World Cup semi-final, would you feel like playing it? (any ex-players on here wish to comment on this?)
Never thought I'd say this, but I was well pleased the F.A. dropped the 3rd/4th place play-off game in the F.A. Cup.
* other pointless matches - in my view - FL Cup, FL Trophy and all other league cups. Stick to FA and County FA competitions, your league matches and, if you must tire your players out, choose just one other competition - preferably playing against sides outside your own league. Rant over!

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