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Home: Non-League Football Discussion: Restructuring Discussion:
Any news on the new Yorkshire League at step 7?

 

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kivo
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Oct 13, 2009, 12:38 PM

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Any news on the new Yorkshire League at step 7? Can't Post or Reply Privately

Or was it all just a myth...


Seagull
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Oct 13, 2009, 12:46 PM

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Re: [kivo] Any news on the new Yorkshire League at step 7? [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

From what I've heard a "new" league, as in a newly created league, is most unlikely.

Don't rule anything else out though.


robgrillo
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Re: [Seagull] Any news on the new Yorkshire League at step 7? [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

Looks like existing leagues will get 7a, 7b, 7c status instead rather than a Yorkshire league being fomed. The NCE league wanted an 'extra' division, but reading between the lines I think that was really only to poach the West Riding / Sheffield Hallamshire based clubs from the Central Mids league.



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sezme
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Nov 23, 2009, 1:01 PM

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Re: [robgrillo] Any news on the new Yorkshire League at step 7? [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


In Reply To
Looks like existing leagues will get 7a, 7b, 7c status instead rather than a Yorkshire league being fomed. The NCE league wanted an 'extra' division, but reading between the lines I think that was really only to poach the West Riding / Sheffield Hallamshire based clubs from the Central Mids league.


This is the questinnaire that the FA has sent out to the Yorkshire Leagues re: step 7.
Attachments: NonNLS Questionnaire.doc (263 KB)


ianh
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Nov 23, 2009, 10:07 PM

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Re: [robgrillo] Any news on the new Yorkshire League at step 7? [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


In Reply To
Looks like existing leagues will get 7a, 7b, 7c status instead rather than a Yorkshire league being fomed. The NCE league wanted an 'extra' division, but reading between the lines I think that was really only to poach the West Riding / Sheffield Hallamshire based clubs from the Central Mids league.

That would be poetic justice if someone poached clubs from the CML, given their previous Laugh


rainworthgord
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Nov 23, 2009, 10:59 PM

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Re: [ianh] Any news on the new Yorkshire League at step 7? [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


In Reply To

In Reply To
Looks like existing leagues will get 7a, 7b, 7c status instead rather than a Yorkshire league being fomed. The NCE league wanted an 'extra' division, but reading between the lines I think that was really only to poach the West Riding / Sheffield Hallamshire based clubs from the Central Mids league.

That would be poetic justice if someone poached clubs from the CML, given their previous Laugh

Ian you really have an axe to grind with the CML don't you? Name one club that the CML has poached, as opposed to the club applying to join.


ianh
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Nov 24, 2009, 2:13 PM

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Re: [rainworthgord] Any news on the new Yorkshire League at step 7? [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


In Reply To

Ian you really have an axe to grind with the CML don't you? Name one club that the CML has poached, as opposed to the club applying to join.

the CML were reported to the FA by the Sheffield & Hallamshire league 18 months ago, in Lincolnshire we know that clubs have been approached particularly when the East Midlands Counties was formed
Yes I have got an axe to grind, and have given the reasons on here before
also to the CML representatives at the step 7 meeting in Rotherham, when they claimed that all their clubs had been poached with none in return.
The CML is a decent league they shouldnt need to poach, hopefully with a new step 7 structure in place, it wont happen.
But am not holding my breath on either count Unsure


(This post was edited by ianh on Nov 24, 2009, 2:14 PM)


rainworthgord
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Re: [ianh] Any news on the new Yorkshire League at step 7? [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

I repeat, Ian, name one.


Sarumio
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Nov 24, 2009, 6:14 PM

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Re: [ianh] Any news on the new Yorkshire League at step 7? [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


In Reply To

In Reply To

Ian you really have an axe to grind with the CML don't you? Name one club that the CML has poached, as opposed to the club applying to join.

the CML were reported to the FA by the Sheffield & Hallamshire league 18 months ago, in Lincolnshire we know that clubs have been approached particularly when the East Midlands Counties was formed
Yes I have got an axe to grind, and have given the reasons on here before
also to the CML representatives at the step 7 meeting in Rotherham, when they claimed that all their clubs had been poached with none in return.
The CML is a decent league they shouldnt need to poach, hopefully with a new step 7 structure in place, it wont happen.
But am not holding my breath on either count Unsure

I dont disbelieve anything you have said is true, but what utter nonsense and stinks of leagues empire building. Leagues do no own clubs. League are exactly what the name implies - a group of clubs administered by a certain league committee. Clubs cannot be "poached". The CML was desimated by the creation of the East Midlands Counties League and it needed more clubs to come up. If a certain amount of clubs have the right facilities, no matter how many from any one league then they should go up. Leagues should be filled from the top - and with the CML being the higher league over the Sheffield & Hallamshire League, then that league should not be able to stop clubs going. They shouldnt want to if its in the interests of football - which it was and still is!


Chapeltom
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Jan 18, 2010, 12:30 AM

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Re: [Sarumio] Any news on the new Yorkshire League at step 7? [In reply to] Can't Post or

My opinion is there should be a reform of this whole Step 7 thing in the North Midlands and Yorkshire. There is however several problems.

1) Facilities, Sheffield County Senior League grounds are frankly rubbish compared to the Central Midlands. Factors for this include; what do you expect from a league that feeds into the Central Midlands and why do clubs need such high standards of grounds at their level. Sheffield C.S League grounds will never be higher than the Central Midlands as they are a lower ranked league and clubs don't have the money.

2) What leagues and boundaries do you create? West Yorkshire is on its own, a seperate entirety. South Yorkshire and East Yorkshire lack a Step 7 league to their own, the Central Midlands provides this @ the expense of high ground standard and long distance travelling. Not many South Yorkshire and Lincolnshire based sides have the facilities like most of the Nottinghamshire & Derbyshire CMFL sides is a problem. Do you allow the CMFL to carry on and pick the best of these regions OR do you create a league at Step 7 with lower grounds criteria for clubs around Hull and Sheffield. Hull to Nottingham is what 90 miles? Its a joke for Step 7/8 travelling.

3) Bypassing leagues, Handsworth & Athersley Rec have applied to go to Step 6 from Step 9. There is no stopping this and any club could happily do it, what is wrong with it? Well with the Central Midlands League opposing it it creates a problem, surely most clubs moving to the CMFL have an intention of playing at Step 6 and getting a good squad and good enough ground at that level is what they need but if they could have stayed at Step 9 and built up whats the point of the Central Midlands League?

4) Co-operation, can you ever see the best clubs from Step 9 in South & East Yorkshire and those in the Central Midlands from that area moving into a Step 7 league of their own with the Sheffield League, Doncaster League and Lincolnshire League (Humber Premier possibly) as feeders into it? I can't, the CMFL wouldn't allow clubs to move sideways as it would tip their own league towards the brink.


Thats my opinion anyway, take what you want from it but in my view its a very tough situation.

Tom


(This post was edited by Chapeltom on Jan 18, 2010, 12:32 AM)


JohnD
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Jan 18, 2010, 12:12 PM

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Re: [Chapeltom] Any news on the new Yorkshire League at step 7? [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

Having the NYorks and Humberside sides in the Central Midlands is daft imo. There ought to be a more geographically logical route to the NCEL.

As ever, transport links make, for example an M62 league, more logical than one based on Counties.


Moorsider
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Jan 19, 2010, 12:43 AM

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Re: [JohnD] Any news on the new Yorkshire League at step 7? [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

N Yorks sides are better off going into Wearside League which is a Step 7 set up and provides a route into Step 6 (Northern League) by promotion. Kirkbymoorside and Scarborough Town have done this and are playing in WL at the moment along with New Marske, Teeside Athletic (Redcar) and Guisborough HC. Stokesley also played in WL before joining NL. Have even heard rumours from Pickering that they might have preferred this route if it had been available in the past as they would have faced less travelling in Northern League as currently in NCEL. As a KMS supporter and helper I await any news of a Yorkshire Step 7 with interest as I am sure do others connected with the club. Only when details are announced can we decide what to do, but whatever the outcome I am sure we would be better in NL rather than NCEL at Step 6.



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(This post was edited by Moorsider on Jan 19, 2010, 12:54 AM)


kivo
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Jan 19, 2010, 1:23 PM

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Re: [Moorsider] Any news on the new Yorkshire League at step 7? [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

It really is staggering that sides from N.Yorks/Hull have to travel to Nottingham/Derby/Leicester for games at CMFL Prem - that's in effect step EIGHT.

For village sides!

How on earth there isn't a seperate Yorkshire League, or even seperate North/South/East/West Yorkshire Leagues at step 7 baffles me.

I would think that is probably the best idea tbh, create one big Yorkshire League consisting of four divisions all at step 7 consisting of Yorks based CMFL sides as well as County Senior sides from all over the county.

At the end of the season all four league champions and runners-up (eight sides) play-off to decide which two sides are put forward to join NCEL Div 1.

Scrap the CMFL route into the NCEL Div 1 - have them go into EMCL first and then NCEL Prem.


JohnD
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Jan 19, 2010, 2:34 PM

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Re: [kivo] Any news on the new Yorkshire League at step 7? [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

I think a split based around the M1 or A1 and the M62 is a decent starting point. It's the same old story though, the sides from less populated areas eg East Yorks, North York moors will always have to travel further. Transport links are more important often than just mileage.

Yorkshire is a huge place and once you're off the motorways, there's some seriously long journeys.


kivo
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Feb 23, 2010, 1:14 PM

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Re: [JohnD] Any news on the new Yorkshire League at step 7? [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

I suppose we would have known by now if something was happening for next season

*sigh*


Richard Rundle
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Feb 23, 2010, 5:16 PM

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Re: [kivo] Any news on the new Yorkshire League at step 7? [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


In Reply To
I suppose we would have known by now if something was happening for next season


Look back at Rob Grillo's post early in this thread, that's what seems to be happening across the board. I know down here in the South West various leagues have been invited to discuss applying for step 7a/b/c status - and they will still feed existing step 7 divisions. In that case, I don't know why the FA aren't terming the new status step 8a/b/c.

--
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Kernovian
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Re: [Richard Rundle] Any news on the new Yorkshire League at step 7? [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


In Reply To
Look back at Rob Grillo's post early in this thread, that's what seems to be happening across the board. I know down here in the South West various leagues have been invited to discuss applying for step 7a/b/c status - and they will still feed existing step 7 divisions. In that case, I don't know why the FA aren't terming the new status step 8a/b/c.

--
Richard


I gather that the particular nomenclature - i.e. referring to all these divisions as Step 7x acknowledges that individual clubs may be directly promoted to Step 6, whereas the a, b, c denomination simply describes the average grading composition of the members of a division as a whole.

It's a sort of data-compressed description, that's all.



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KnowYourMarket
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Feb 24, 2010, 8:36 AM

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Re: [kivo] Any news on the new Yorkshire League at step 7? [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

I doubt Kiveton Park would be in it anyway would they? Currently bottom of a step 8 leagueWink

Also I note that the Sheffield County Senior League is classed as step 9, I thought that teams in this league with suitable facilities would automatically enter the NCEL?



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kivo
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Feb 24, 2010, 12:31 PM

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Re: [KnowYourMarket] Any news on the new Yorkshire League at step 7? [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


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I doubt Kiveton Park would be in it anyway would they? Currently bottom of a step 8 leagueWink
Bottom because no-one wants to play for Kiveton any more, knowing full well they'd never get promoted if they won every game - no lights = no promotion. A couple of years ago Kivo had a fairly decent team, now all the best players have left for clubs that have a chance of progression

Also I note that the Sheffield County Senior League is classed as step 9, I thought that teams in this league with suitable facilities would automatically enter the NCEL?
Well theoretically Any team wanted to progress from the SCSL should go into the CMFL but as is the norm in non-league football clubs and leagues do as they wish - quite a few teams have just skipped a couple of divisions as they please just because they've got a decent ground. There used to be a time when I was veering away from the Premiershit and Football League because it was nothing like how football should be, but non-league football is equally as littered with red tape that my passion for any football at all is rapidly waning. How a village team like Kiveton Park (and many like them) are forced to play in a league where they have to travel to Hull, Derby, and Nottingham is beyond me, how a village team is denied progression through the leagues (and relegated too remember) because they don't have the money to build floodlights - regardless of how good they are on the pitch - is beyond me.

How on earth is it fair that there are step six, even step five sides out there without floodlights yet Kiveton at step EIGHT can't progress any further and are even relegated because they don't have them? How can leagues set out their own rules like that, how does the FA let them get away with it?

Am I bitter? Too right I am - I've seen Kiveton out-play Retford and Dinnington amongst others in recent years but while those sides have come into money and in some cases given it *cough*Dinno*cough*, Kivo haven't got a pot to piss in and find themselves floundering at the foot of the CMFL, struggling to field a team to play on a derelict and vandalised ground, whereas others have progressed through the leagues like a knife through butter.

Now try telling me non-league is different to the Premiershit, that it isn't just all about money...



(This post was edited by kivo on Feb 24, 2010, 12:34 PM)


robgrillo
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Re: [KnowYourMarket] Any news on the new Yorkshire League at step 7? [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


In Reply To


Also I note that the Sheffield County Senior League is classed as step 9, I thought that teams in this league with suitable facilities would automatically enter the NCEL?



There are rumours that 2 Sheffield County Senior league teams have applied to the NCE - Handsworth & Athersley Rec I think. If accepted then the implications for the Central Midlands league are ??????



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ianh
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Feb 24, 2010, 9:51 PM

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Re: [kivo] Any news on the new Yorkshire League at step 7? [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


In Reply To

In Reply To
Also I note that the Sheffield County Senior League is classed as step 9,

Well theoretically Any team wanted to progress from the SCSL should go into the CMFL

Where does it say that?

How a village team like Kiveton Park (and many like them) are forced to play in a league where they have to travel to Hull, Derby, and Nottingham

Who has forced you?

step five sides out there without floodlights

Which ones?


yet Kiveton at step EIGHT can't progress any further and are even relegated because they don't have them? How can leagues set out their own rules like that, how does the FA let them get away with it?


all Leagues have their own variations on the rules, you as a club are part of the league, you should be able to propose a change in the rules.




mick
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Feb 24, 2010, 10:11 PM

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Re: [kivo] Any news on the new Yorkshire League at step 7? [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

How a village team like Kiveton Park (and many like them) are forced to play in a league where they have to travel to Hull, Derby, and Nottingham is beyond me,

Nobody is forcing them. They could play in the Sheffield County Senior or Doncaster Senior if they preferred.

how a village team is denied progression through the leagues (and relegated too remember) because they don't have the money to build floodlights - regardless of how good they are on the pitch - is beyond me.

Agree wholeheartedly with this. But if such progression was possible it would mean longer journeys which, from your previous point, you seem to be against.


PonteCarlo
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Feb 25, 2010, 2:11 PM

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Re: [mick] Any news on the new Yorkshire League at step 7? [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

I can understand kivo's frustrations as as far as I am aware the Sheffield County Senior is not officially in the NLS/Pyramid - can anyone confirm this? Also, I've never known it to be an 'official' feeder league to the NCEL, unlike which the CMFL is of course.
One thing I would really like to know is how on earth teams from the East Midlands Counties League are going to be promoted to the NCEL Premier - at the moment its two-up, two down between NCEL Premier and Div One, what does the EMCL mean to this? How would they relegate sides between the two leagues? Does a Division One side have to miss out on promotion?
All seems a bit complicated to me this!



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rainworthgord
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Feb 25, 2010, 11:25 PM

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Re: [PonteCarlo] Any news on the new Yorkshire League at step 7? [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

I think the EMCL is being steered towards feeding into the Midland Alliance where, indeed, Kirby Muxloe went last season - and Bardon Hill Sports would go thiis year assuming they win it. But Dunkirk could be pulled either way - the Midland Alliance has not yet reached Nottingham.


alfie
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Mar 5, 2010, 9:52 AM

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Re: [kivo] Any news on the new Yorkshire League at step 7? [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

What is the reason for the West riding ccounty Amateur and Wes Yorkshire Leagues remaining outside the NLS?

It just seems odd to me as their is an obvious gap in official step seven football in this area

These two league could provide a Yorkshire Step seven league although would someone lose their little empire to achieve this



Alfie

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