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Home: Non-League Football Discussion: Restructuring Discussion:
Regionalise league 2?

 

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Grecian
Reserve Team Regular


Jun 4, 2009, 6:34 PM

Posts: 607
Location: London
Team(s): Exeter City, Bath City, Alphington, Tottenham Hotspur

Post #26 of 35 (632 views)
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Re: [Mr. T] Regionalise league 2? [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

ahh, such is the curse of typing posts in Word before copying and pasting them into the thread... and typos resulting in legitimate but incorrect words - and my brain being slightly frazzled at the end of the day!


Andrelux
First Team Regular

Jun 5, 2009, 4:04 PM

Posts: 1213
Location: Luxembourg
Team(s): Brentford (for my sins - obviously done something really bad in a past life

Post #27 of 35 (578 views)
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Re: [Mr. T] Regionalise league 2? [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


In Reply To

In Reply To
However, UEFA have been banging on for years about how they want top divisions to be maximum 18 teams. Result? of the five "major" leagues in Europe, four of them still have 20 teams in their top leagues. And Germany has never had more than 18.



It should have no say whatsoever in the format of domestic competitions. It is absolutely none of its business how many teams there are in the top division in any country. If the Premiership ever does go to 18 clubs, I think I will lose the remainder of what little interest I have in it. If 3 up, 3 down remains, the whole season will become a desperate struggle for survival for those below, say, sixth/seventh. If it goes to 2 up, 2 down, which you might expect in such a small division, then it could become a bit of closed shop (if it isn't already).

If UEFA ever does attempt to flex its muscles in this, will domestic associations capitulate? What does European law have to say on this? Given that it is the EU's ultimate aim to abolish national government (it's very nearly there, Lisbon treaty and all that), then taking over UEFA and closing down national FAs should be easy.


Do you know? I was agreeing strongly with what you said, until you mentioned the EU and the Lisbon Treaty, neither of which have bog all to do about nothing in this respect. For a start, at least half of the UEFA member countries are not members of the EU.

UEFA are trying to make money from selling TV packages, Four fewer domestic matches a season means that clubss' complaints about playing too many matches can be assuaged, whilst allowing them to increase the number of televised matches they can get money from.

As for mentioning the Lisbon Treaty and the EU... shame on you. Nothing to do with it. Completely separate.


Mr. T
Chelsea Transfer Target


Jun 5, 2009, 4:25 PM

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Post #28 of 35 (569 views)
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Re: [Andrelux] Regionalise league 2? [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

The same mentality that informs the bureaucrats of the EU can be found in UEFA, which wishes to interfere in domestic affairs beyond its remit. Entirely relevant in the modern world of unaccountable supranational organisations, but even if you don't agree that it is and that it (the EU) should be separated from the argument about UEFA's desire for 18-club divisions, then your statement "I was agreeing strongly with what you said until you mentioned the EU..." looks plain silly if you agree with what I said prior to mentioning the EU because you think the EU is irrelevant to the argument then you can still separate the two and that argument is not devalued because of the mention of the EU. In other words, you are guilty of mere pique.

And as for "shame on you" isn't that a little melodramatic?


Andrelux
First Team Regular

Jun 5, 2009, 5:02 PM

Posts: 1213
Location: Luxembourg
Team(s): Brentford (for my sins - obviously done something really bad in a past life

Post #29 of 35 (553 views)
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Re: [Mr. T] Regionalise league 2? [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


In Reply To
The same mentality that informs the bureaucrats of the EU can be found in UEFA, which wishes to interfere in domestic affairs beyond its remit. Entirely relevant in the modern world of unaccountable supranational organisations, but even if you don't agree that it is and that it (the EU) should be separated from the argument about UEFA's desire for 18-club divisions, then your statement "I was agreeing strongly with what you said until you mentioned the EU..." looks plain silly if you agree with what I said prior to mentioning the EU because you think the EU is irrelevant to the argument then you can still separate the two and that argument is not devalued because of the mention of the EU. In other words, you are guilty of mere pique.

And as for "shame on you" isn't that a little melodramatic?

I agree up to a point... beaurocatric mentalities can be found everywhere. In the EU as in UEFA. However, let's not confuse the two, and dump every fault of the one onto the other. The basic argument about UEFA stands (I think)... including the EU and the Lisbon Treaty serves only to devalue it, since I stand by my original comment that they#ve got bog all to do with it. So, therefore "shame on you" stands, since it ruins a good argument. I have many and varied objections to, and comments on, the EU and the Lisbon Treaty - none of which have to do with the case in point. I have many and various comments about UEFA, some of which concern team allocations, and my guesses as to the reasons behind them.

Despite this, and even in my most febrile dreams, I can see no relationship between the failings of UEFA and the failings of the Lisbon Treaty. That both might have their downside, I am prepared to admit: that either is related to the other, I will strongly deny, other than to say that they are both manifestations of an attempt at achieving power..

That, and that they are both examples of failure in trying to impose that power: UEFA, despite everything, have been whistling into the wind in their attempts to impose 18 team leagues; the EU has found that, when put to the vote, in those strange countries we are so worried about (but not yet in the UK), most people when given the chance have voted against.

Incidentally, have you read through the latest (now modified, thanks to the Irish, Danes and a few others who've had an input) draft of the Lisbon Treaty? Once you get through the gobbledygook of the preamble, it's actually surprisingly uncontroversial. And, more to the point, it mentions nothing about UEFA club allocations, or anything which could be construed as such.

These are two separate points. That's my one point.


Andrelux
First Team Regular

Jun 5, 2009, 5:10 PM

Posts: 1213
Location: Luxembourg
Team(s): Brentford (for my sins - obviously done something really bad in a past life

Post #30 of 35 (549 views)
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Re: [Andrelux] Regionalise league 2? [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

Actually, what I've written is bollocks.

My point was: Lisbon treaty: dodgy. UEFA attempt to reduce leagues to 18: well dodgy. Relationship between the two: nil. Success of both: nil. Usefulness of including Lisbon Treaty in talks about UEFA and their attempts to reduce league sizes: nil.

I think that covers it.


Mr. T
Chelsea Transfer Target


Jun 5, 2009, 5:29 PM

Posts: 5371
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Post #31 of 35 (540 views)
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Re: [Andrelux] Regionalise league 2? [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

"Actually, what I've written is bollocks."

Then just delete it and we'll forget you ever mentioned it.


Andrelux
First Team Regular

Jun 5, 2009, 5:47 PM

Posts: 1213
Location: Luxembourg
Team(s): Brentford (for my sins - obviously done something really bad in a past life

Post #32 of 35 (530 views)
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Re: [Mr. T] Regionalise league 2? [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


In Reply To
"Actually, what I've written is bollocks."

Then just delete it and we'll forget you ever mentioned it.

Ok, so you know what I meant...Cool

... anyway, I've got a tea to carry on cooking.


UKPunk
Man City Transfer Target!

Jun 5, 2009, 8:12 PM

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Post #33 of 35 (499 views)
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Re: [Andrelux] Regionalise league 2? [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

It seems to me that you two guys are in total agreement. In a sense you're arguing over semantics. By the way, I agree with both of you. Smile



1-0-1-0-4-25-40-65-181-289=606

Last game: Mon 20/8/18
4. Basford United 1 Hednesford Town 2


Mr. T
Chelsea Transfer Target


Jun 5, 2009, 8:35 PM

Posts: 5371
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Post #34 of 35 (492 views)
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Re: [UKPunk] Regionalise league 2? [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

"In a sense you're arguing over semantics."
Yes but I own up to using some rather careless rhetoric resulting in the need for a determined defensive display.

"It seems to me that you two guys are in total agreement."
You didn't see the post I deleted!

"By the way, I agree with both of you." Smile
A Liberal Democrat then... Wink


UKPunk
Man City Transfer Target!

Jun 5, 2009, 8:38 PM

Posts: 11786
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Post #35 of 35 (490 views)
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Re: [Mr. T] Regionalise league 2? [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


In Reply To
"By the way, I agree with both of you." Smile
A Liberal Democrat then... Wink

That's a frightening thought. Unsure



1-0-1-0-4-25-40-65-181-289=606

Last game: Mon 20/8/18
4. Basford United 1 Hednesford Town 2

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