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Home: Non-League Football Discussion: Restructuring Discussion:
UCL League in a mess

 



uclguy
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May 15, 2009, 8:52 AM

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Post #1 of 17 (2575 views)
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UCL League in a mess Can't Post or Reply Privately

There is a strong possibility that S& L corby UCL league champions this year are going to be relegated to division 1 due to ground grading issues.......

Peterborough northern star are probably not going to be promoted from div 1 as contractor let them down on light installation and missed deadline. However lights were up on the day of league structure meeting.


(This post was edited by uclguy on May 15, 2009, 9:00 AM)


vienna1964
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May 15, 2009, 11:05 AM

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Post #2 of 17 (2448 views)
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Re: [uclguy] UCL League in a mess [In reply to] Can't Post or

Rumour doing the rounds that six premier sides not gotten grading !



I APOLOGISE UNRESERVEDLY TO EACH AND EVERY PERSON ON THIS FORUM WHO HAS FELT LET-DOWN BY MY INIMICABLE AND DEPLORABLE BEHAVIOUR OF OCTOBER 28th. 2009. ESPECIALLY TO BRIAN, WHO IS A MARVELLOUS GENTLEMAN AND IS THE LAST PERSON HERE WHO SHOULD HAVE TO PUT UP WITH SUCH UNDESERVED PERSONAL CHARACTER-ASSASSINATION. LET IT BE KNOWN THAT A PRIVATE PERSONAL APOLOGY WAS SENT, BUT WAS SEEN INSUFFICIENT. FAIR ENOUGH.


coupwotcoup
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May 15, 2009, 11:10 AM

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Post #3 of 17 (2436 views)
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Re: [vienna1964] UCL League in a mess [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

Can I complain to somebody re your change of avatar.. the new one just ain't you...Smile



Pre-1970 football programmes wanted. Good prices paid for good condition collections. Have thousands for sale, League and Non League. PM with wants lists or for quotes. Especially required pre-1978 Romford home and aways, plus FA Trophy programmes from any rounds from seasons 69-70 and 70-1.


vienna1964
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May 15, 2009, 11:13 AM

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Post #4 of 17 (2430 views)
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Re: [coupwotcoup] UCL League in a mess [In reply to] Can't Post or


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Can I complain to somebody re your change of avatar.. the new one just ain't you...Smile


It's really just a different view of me ! lol



I APOLOGISE UNRESERVEDLY TO EACH AND EVERY PERSON ON THIS FORUM WHO HAS FELT LET-DOWN BY MY INIMICABLE AND DEPLORABLE BEHAVIOUR OF OCTOBER 28th. 2009. ESPECIALLY TO BRIAN, WHO IS A MARVELLOUS GENTLEMAN AND IS THE LAST PERSON HERE WHO SHOULD HAVE TO PUT UP WITH SUCH UNDESERVED PERSONAL CHARACTER-ASSASSINATION. LET IT BE KNOWN THAT A PRIVATE PERSONAL APOLOGY WAS SENT, BUT WAS SEEN INSUFFICIENT. FAIR ENOUGH.


coupwotcoup
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May 15, 2009, 11:17 AM

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Re: [vienna1964] UCL League in a mess [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

Fvck me.. so it is.. my mid-50's eyes are getting worse.. Pirate



Pre-1970 football programmes wanted. Good prices paid for good condition collections. Have thousands for sale, League and Non League. PM with wants lists or for quotes. Especially required pre-1978 Romford home and aways, plus FA Trophy programmes from any rounds from seasons 69-70 and 70-1.


rainworthgord
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May 15, 2009, 2:09 PM

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Post #6 of 17 (2234 views)
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Re: [coupwotcoup] UCL League in a mess [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

Back to the original theme, S&L should not be relegated according to the FA guidelines if there are more than two clubs in the Premier who don't meet the grade (assuming there are two relegation places). The clubs to be relegated should be, first, the two (or however many usual relegation places there are) clubs who finish lowest in the Premier Division and don't have an F grade. Only if this does not produce the required number of clubs to drop will the clubs who finish in the normal relegation positions but have an F go down. But any clubs who have not got an F by next season will find themselves in danger again.

The two (or however many) top Division One clubs with a current G grade should be promoted and will have until 31.3.10 to gain an F if they don't have it already.


SuperKev!
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May 15, 2009, 3:27 PM

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Post #7 of 17 (2141 views)
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Re: [rainworthgord] UCL League in a mess [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

Here's a hypothetical but, nevertheless, perfectly possible scenario that was put to me last week. I couldn't answer it but maybe somebody else can...

Club X is promoted from Step 6 to Step 5 and are given until April 1 next year to get an F grade. By next April, they haven't achieved this but it is clear that they are going to finish in the top half of the table whereas there are four or five clubs classified as "relegated" who will finish below them. Assuming there are two relegation positions, will Club X automatically fill one of these along with the lowest placed "relegated" club or will they merely be reclassified as a "relegated" club themselves and survive on the basis that more than two other "relegated" clubs finished below them? The former would give clubs even less incentive to spend money on the ground improvements required whereas the latter would call into question the rule that allows Club X to be promoted in the first place. What do people think is the most likely?


vienna1964
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May 15, 2009, 3:30 PM

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Post #8 of 17 (2135 views)
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Re: [SuperKev!] UCL League in a mess [In reply to] Can't Post or

It HAS been stated that maximally the normal number of teams should be relegated from any division... so, who knows ?



I APOLOGISE UNRESERVEDLY TO EACH AND EVERY PERSON ON THIS FORUM WHO HAS FELT LET-DOWN BY MY INIMICABLE AND DEPLORABLE BEHAVIOUR OF OCTOBER 28th. 2009. ESPECIALLY TO BRIAN, WHO IS A MARVELLOUS GENTLEMAN AND IS THE LAST PERSON HERE WHO SHOULD HAVE TO PUT UP WITH SUCH UNDESERVED PERSONAL CHARACTER-ASSASSINATION. LET IT BE KNOWN THAT A PRIVATE PERSONAL APOLOGY WAS SENT, BUT WAS SEEN INSUFFICIENT. FAIR ENOUGH.


uclguy
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May 15, 2009, 7:47 PM

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Post #9 of 17 (1955 views)
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Re: [vienna1964] UCL League in a mess [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

I am reliably informed that only S & L and Blackstones have failed ground grading.....But league seem to be sticking to their own guns on Peterborough Northern star. Possibly trying to sort league numbers out.


UKPunk
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May 15, 2009, 10:01 PM

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Post #10 of 17 (1852 views)
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Re: [SuperKev!] UCL League in a mess [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


In Reply To
Here's a hypothetical but, nevertheless, perfectly possible scenario that was put to me last week. I couldn't answer it but maybe somebody else can...

Club X is promoted from Step 6 to Step 5 and are given until April 1 next year to get an F grade. By next April, they haven't achieved this but it is clear that they are going to finish in the top half of the table whereas there are four or five clubs classified as "relegated" who will finish below them. Assuming there are two relegation positions, will Club X automatically fill one of these along with the lowest placed "relegated" club or will they merely be reclassified as a "relegated" club themselves and survive on the basis that more than two other "relegated" clubs finished below them? The former would give clubs even less incentive to spend money on the ground improvements required whereas the latter would call into question the rule that allows Club X to be promoted in the first place. What do people think is the most likely?

It seems to me that getting promoted before you have the required alterations to the ground completed is a bit like living on credit. Why not simplify it by demanding that clubs must have the required changes in place before they are allowed promotion?

I will at this point draw the reader's attention to the fact that, as those who have read previous posts of mine on the subject will know, I do not agree to the current ground grading criteria demanded by the powers that be.



1-0-1-0-4-25-40-65-181-289=606

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4. Basford United 1 Hednesford Town 2


BiggBloke
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May 16, 2009, 11:04 AM

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Post #11 of 17 (1695 views)
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Re: [UKPunk] UCL League in a mess [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

Bear in mind that this is an across the board crackdown and in my mind effectively aimed at the leagues who have systemically slipped in their own duty of ensuring absolute grading compliance by their members as much as it is aimed at the clubs themselves.

Once the crackdown on compliance has taken full effect, it will then only be the promoted clubs who are in the frame for a relegation punishment if they don't achieve the required grade by the next March 31st.

Until then (perhaps 2 seasons at most I would guess depending on the league concerned) a large points deduction for those escaping relegation by dint of others not achieving the grade would be an appropriately off-putting punishment.


(This post was edited by BiggBloke on May 16, 2009, 11:08 AM)


oftenscore6
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May 16, 2009, 11:27 AM

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Post #12 of 17 (1675 views)
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Re: [SuperKev!] UCL League in a mess [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


In Reply To
Here's a hypothetical but, nevertheless, perfectly possible scenario that was put to me last week. I couldn't answer it but maybe somebody else can...

Club X is promoted from Step 6 to Step 5 and are given until April 1 next year to get an F grade. By next April, they haven't achieved this but it is clear that they are going to finish in the top half of the table whereas there are four or five clubs classified as "relegated" who will finish below them. Assuming there are two relegation positions, will Club X automatically fill one of these along with the lowest placed "relegated" club or will they merely be reclassified as a "relegated" club themselves and survive on the basis that more than two other "relegated" clubs finished below them? The former would give clubs even less incentive to spend money on the ground improvements required whereas the latter would call into question the rule that allows Club X to be promoted in the first place. What do people think is the most likely?


To answer your question, the latter. As I read it, any clubs who fail the ground grading as at 31.3.10 will again be first in line for relegation, regardless of which division they were in and grade they had on 31.3.09.



-----------------------------------------------
Last new football ground (957) Kingsway Park Ashland Rovers 2-0 Underwood Villa
With FC United: 135
On the agenda:
22/10 Rocester v NKF Burbage
27/10 Floriana v Senglea Athletic


Bigg One
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May 16, 2009, 11:30 AM

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Post #13 of 17 (1672 views)
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Re: [UKPunk] UCL League in a mess [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


In Reply To

In Reply To
Why not simplify it by demanding that clubs must have the required changes in place before they are allowed promotion?



why force clubs to spend money before they, maybe, get promoted?
a years grace is fair imo, to implement changes.


Richard Rundle
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May 16, 2009, 7:58 PM

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Post #14 of 17 (1527 views)
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Re: [Bigg One] UCL League in a mess [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


In Reply To

In Reply To
Why not simplify it by demanding that clubs must have the required changes in place before they are allowed promotion?



why force clubs to spend money before they, maybe, get promoted?
a years grace is fair imo, to implement changes.



And because some of the grants they need to implement the improvements are only accessible once the club is playing at the higher level.

--
Richard


dave
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May 16, 2009, 8:07 PM

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Post #15 of 17 (1513 views)
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Re: [UKPunk] UCL League in a mess [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


In Reply To

In Reply To
Here's a hypothetical but, nevertheless, perfectly possible scenario that was put to me last week. I couldn't answer it but maybe somebody else can...

Club X is promoted from Step 6 to Step 5 and are given until April 1 next year to get an F grade. By next April, they haven't achieved this but it is clear that they are going to finish in the top half of the table whereas there are four or five clubs classified as "relegated" who will finish below them. Assuming there are two relegation positions, will Club X automatically fill one of these along with the lowest placed "relegated" club or will they merely be reclassified as a "relegated" club themselves and survive on the basis that more than two other "relegated" clubs finished below them? The former would give clubs even less incentive to spend money on the ground improvements required whereas the latter would call into question the rule that allows Club X to be promoted in the first place. What do people think is the most likely?

It seems to me that getting promoted before you have the required alterations to the ground completed is a bit like living on credit. Why not simplify it by demanding that clubs must have the required changes in place before they are allowed promotion?



Because that used to be exactly the rule that happened (at least higher up.) Had the current rules for football league membership being in place in the 90s Stevenage would be a league team. The rules now are a lot more simplar than they used to be, its upto the clubs involved to do the work (and yes I know planning permission and finance are constraints.)


John Mills
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May 16, 2009, 9:23 PM

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Post #16 of 17 (1453 views)
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Re: [dave] UCL League in a mess [In reply to] Can't Post or


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Because that used to be exactly the rule that happened (at least higher up.) Had the current rules for football league membership being in place in the 90s Stevenage would be a league team. The rules now are a lot more simplar than they used to be, its upto the clubs involved to do the work (and yes I know planning permission and finance are constraints.)



Not necessarily. Had that been the case, clubs who at the time were spending money to ensure that their grounds were eligible for promotion would have been able to spend that money on players instead, and may have beaten Stevenage to the league. Stevenage attempted to pull a fast one by buying the team first and then getting the dimmer elements of the mass media on their side to suggest there was an injustice in their not going up.


dave
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May 17, 2009, 1:14 AM

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Re: [John Mills] UCL League in a mess [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

I knew I should have put an "all things being equal" bit in my post (which of course they would not have been.) And yes Stevenage did know the rules. Nevertheless the rules are a lot more sensible now IMO.

 
 


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