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Home: Non-League Football Discussion: Restructuring Discussion:
4-sided grounds

 



Dovecote
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Apr 13, 2009, 9:37 PM

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If someone is right, they are right. Rule 2.1 clearly states hard standing is needed on all 4 sides.



The last thread was locked, presumably yet again by Leo Hoenig, however it can't be left as it is without someone being allowed to refute Dave's blatant distortion of the facts.

Hard standing is not needed on all 4 sides of a football ground if said ground's configuration is such that it's a 3-sided ground. It really is that simple.


dave
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Apr 13, 2009, 9:59 PM

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It SHOULD be that simple I agree. But the rules clearly state hardstanding is needed on all 4 sides.

As for me and if I ever admit I'm wrong, I do when I am wrong.


Dovecote
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Apr 13, 2009, 10:28 PM

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It SHOULD be that simple I agree. But the rules clearly state hardstanding is needed on all 4 sides.

As for me and if I ever admit I'm wrong, I do when I am wrong.



You. Are. Wrong.

The rules actually "clearly state" (in the real world, as opposed to your trolling imagination):

Hard standing to a minimum width of 1 metre, measured from the spectator side of the pitch perimeter
barrier, must be provided on 4 sides of the ground
, unless a different configuration exists (see
paragraph 1 below).
The surface must be of a bound material.


Paragraph 1 states:

It must be possible for spectators to view the match, either standing or seated, for the full length of at
least 3 sides of the playing area. Where one side is designated as spectator-free, measures must be
in place to ensure there is no unauthorised access.



Mr. T
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Apr 13, 2009, 11:31 PM

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Re: [Dovecote] 4-sided grounds [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

I thought stags rutted in the autumn...


dave
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Apr 13, 2009, 11:39 PM

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Re: [Mr. T] 4-sided grounds [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

In the real world, common sense is used. I use it myself.

All I'm pointing out is that some of the rules are written wrong, leading to confusion amongst ground grading inspectors.

As well as the rule about hardstanding there is also the enclosed grounds rule.


Dovecote
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Apr 14, 2009, 7:45 AM

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Re: [dave] 4-sided grounds [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

But you are forever typing on here "rules is rules", and now you change tack to "common sense"!

Go on, be a man and admit you were wrong to claim that the rules state that 3-sided grounds need hard standing on the 4th side. You might find that it's actually quite healthy, cathartic even.


VP
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Apr 14, 2009, 10:13 AM

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All I'm pointing out is that some of the rules are written wrong, leading to confusion amongst ground grading inspectors.


The ground grading inspectors aren't confused. They look at the ground and decide if it ticks all the right boxes. They also point out things that aren't in the rules and let some things go, especially when the word 'may' is used in the grading.
I don't know if this is the way it's done all around the country but in the inspections we've had at Camberley there have been three graders. One from our current league, one from the league we'd go up into and one independant (in our case a Kent FA representative).
Between them they come to a concensus on what's allowed and what isn't.
To get a 'D' we had to do two things that aren't actually mentioned in the grading documents so there's more to it than what's written down - the spirit of the rules and common sense are used - we've been allowed to keep our grass areas as they're deemed 'well-maintained' although we had to argue our case for one of them which they originally wanted concreted over.


dave
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Apr 14, 2009, 3:55 PM

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But you are forever typing on here "rules is rules", and now you change tack to "common sense"!

The "rules is rules" that I do use, is meant to be ironic (although I could have made it a bit more obvious.) I say in a ironic way, as I imagine the ground grading inspectors really do go around some stadiums viewing every little thing wrong. Remember when Walton Casuals did not have numbered seats, or the correct tunnel for enterance onto the pitch. Anyway I do think in general the ground grading is a good thing, but I do think anything to do with safety should be applied as strictly as it says in the book. The good thing about ground grading is that it allows clubs to develop a stadium in accordance to what league a club is in. I do think some of the things are set far too high, especially for the attendance levels. And no I don't really expect every club to have roofs. As far as the hardstanding goes, if I was a ground grading inspector, I'd let it go, although it does say within the rules that it has to be on all 4 sides, so some might not.


(This post was edited by dave on Apr 14, 2009, 3:57 PM)


Dovecote
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Apr 14, 2009, 4:09 PM

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Re: [dave] 4-sided grounds [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

I give up. You've written more than enough dribble for you to have hung yourself by your own petard. I pity you for whatever condition it is that you're obviously suffering from. Get well soon. I mean that ironically, of course.


stourboy
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Apr 15, 2009, 4:59 PM

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Re: [dave] 4-sided grounds [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

Why is it unsafe to have grass rather than hard standing? I don't know about you but I know what surface from the two i'd rather fall over onto.

Our three sides were more than enough for the 791 spectators we had on Monday with plenty of room to spare.


dave
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Apr 15, 2009, 7:12 PM

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Why is it unsafe to have grass rather than hard standing?

I guess because its easier to slip over on grass.


Tivvy_Al
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Apr 15, 2009, 8:55 PM

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Having taken a reather direct route down the bank behind the goal at Cinderford one wet afternoon I can vouch for that. Blush



The test of a first-rate intelligence is the ability to hold two opposed ideas in the mind at the same time, and still retain the ability to function. -- F. Scott Fitzgerald


Chapeltom
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Apr 15, 2009, 11:47 PM

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My point about Bitton was perfectly valid. They allowed access to the far end and it was grass. Surely this contravenes the rules?


Dovecote
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Apr 16, 2009, 7:55 AM

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I guess because its easier to slip over on grass.



Not as easy though as tripping over your own lies.


rainworthgord
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Apr 16, 2009, 11:24 AM

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Is the hard standing versus grass thing really a safety issue?

I believe that in any league where hard standing, whether one side or all round, is required there should also be a requirement that access from the road to the gate and from the gate to the hard standing should also be via a proper walkway. There's no point having hard standing if you've got your shoes and trouser bottoms all muddied up on the way to it, ready to paddle back into your car or (punishable by a long, slow and painful death in my case) the house.


dave
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Apr 16, 2009, 11:29 AM

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In Reply To
I guess because its easier to slip over on grass.



Not as easy though as tripping over your own lies.



I'm telling the truth.

 
 


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