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Home: Non-League Football Discussion: Restructuring Discussion:
The New Economy: Should restructuring be restructured ?

 

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vienna1964
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The New Economy: Should restructuring be restructured ? Can't Post or

Here's a giant spanner to chuck into the works !

Now that the economic bubble has burst and we must all now face glaring new financial strictures... has the original restructuring process been 'nutmegged' and should we all be thinking about a completely new 'shake-up', rather than continuing with current plans - and then bolting patches onto these ?



I APOLOGISE UNRESERVEDLY TO EACH AND EVERY PERSON ON THIS FORUM WHO HAS FELT LET-DOWN BY MY INIMICABLE AND DEPLORABLE BEHAVIOUR OF OCTOBER 28th. 2009. ESPECIALLY TO BRIAN, WHO IS A MARVELLOUS GENTLEMAN AND IS THE LAST PERSON HERE WHO SHOULD HAVE TO PUT UP WITH SUCH UNDESERVED PERSONAL CHARACTER-ASSASSINATION. LET IT BE KNOWN THAT A PRIVATE PERSONAL APOLOGY WAS SENT, BUT WAS SEEN INSUFFICIENT. FAIR ENOUGH.


vienna1964
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Re: [vienna1964] The New Economy: Should restructuring be restructured ? [In reply to] Can't Post or

I think that by now most of us have finally realised and accepted that any kind of restructuring can, at best, please only 'some of the people, some of the time' - and that the logical corollary to this is that most people will be less than pleased... that is, those who can be bothered to actually espouse an opinion !

This has been amply demonstrated over the last several seasons-worth of discussion, debate and commentary here and is absolutely no surprise whatsoever to those who early-on apprehended that there were always going to be too many conflicting ideals; all pulling against each other; for any broad concensus to be achieved, and indeed, any largescale satisfaction to be derived from the whole process.

That is not to say that the exercise was in any way pointless or futile... it was sponsored with the very best of intentions all the way. It is just how these intentions managed to map onto harsh reality that proved so very difficult. I think also that there were/are too many wearers of those 'rose-tinteds', expecting things to fall nicely into place as the programme of changes progressed. Truly Mike Appleby; possibly the man with the least rewarding job in the country; is a fellow who achieves my commiserations in his impossible position !

Then, suddenly, all those banks and industries went FLOP.

We now live in a world completely changed from the one we started in at the beginning of the season... if you do not yet realise this, you really should get out more ! America has a new shiny President - one who seems WILL prioritise green issues, from the standpoint of understanding - and although we have already managed to pass the 'point of no return' (My own carefully considered opinion) vis a vis some of the initial negative aspects of global warming - I believe that all sensible measures to reduce the impact of that possibly catastrophic calamity should now be taken... and indeed WILL now be taken !

Please forgive what might be construed as 'political rhetoric' above, I assure you that I am utterly non-aligned politically (the most politically aligned I have ever been is to fail to see the point of politicians whatsoever... but that discussion is for another thread - probably not hosted here !).

Anyhow - to the chase methinks.

I am FOR a completely radical rethink now - due to the above major considerations - of the whole structure of organised footie in this country... and I think that that rethink could possibly actually answer some of the bottlenecks and other problems in the current restructuring process which we have previously identified and discussed here.

Things like :- Why is our Pyramid such a high 'pointy' one ?; Why are Ground-Gradings so ridiculously stringent ?; Why are the 'ideals' we have been working to in restructuring so incompatible with each other; etc.

What thoughts have we as a possible 'think-tank' ?



I APOLOGISE UNRESERVEDLY TO EACH AND EVERY PERSON ON THIS FORUM WHO HAS FELT LET-DOWN BY MY INIMICABLE AND DEPLORABLE BEHAVIOUR OF OCTOBER 28th. 2009. ESPECIALLY TO BRIAN, WHO IS A MARVELLOUS GENTLEMAN AND IS THE LAST PERSON HERE WHO SHOULD HAVE TO PUT UP WITH SUCH UNDESERVED PERSONAL CHARACTER-ASSASSINATION. LET IT BE KNOWN THAT A PRIVATE PERSONAL APOLOGY WAS SENT, BUT WAS SEEN INSUFFICIENT. FAIR ENOUGH.

(This post was edited by vienna1964 on Feb 22, 2009, 2:22 PM)


leohoenig
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Feb 22, 2009, 6:57 PM

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Re: [vienna1964] The New Economy: Should restructuring be restructured ? [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

Recessions have happened before, and will happen again. Some football clubs fold during a recession. Some fold during a boom.
Its more to do with bad management than the overall economy.

The top end of our pyramid is not a problem - any attempt to regionalise it and then drop full time professionallism from the top levels will lead to a significant loss of crowds. It is much to the credit of football supporters in the UK that they see past the narrow Sky TV, Premier or nought attitude and support the lower clubs in such numbers.

I have always favoured lowering the ground grading standards for the lower divisions. I do not see the current ecomonic situation changes this, but whereas I understand 1-2-3-6, 1-2-4-8 and other patterns are all viable, I see little economic reason for change.

Finally, America has not got a shiny new president. That is just the American publicity machine. He is another American politician, the same as all the other American presidents as far back as I can remember. May be more intelligent than Bush (W), or more honest than Nixon, but still an American politician. We still have wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, the Kyoto protocols remain unratified and lawyers not only earn more than brain surgeons, they are less likely to get sued.

So blow away the smoke, put away the mirrors - the world has not changed overnight.
(I am 50 years old, the world has not changed overnight on any night in those 50 years - the last time that happened was August 6th, 1945 - there has been one major change in the world order in my life, but it was gradual, not sudden. Its start date, as near as can be reckoned was February 21 1972).



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buncranaboy
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Re: [leohoenig] The New Economy: Should restructuring be restructured ? [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


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I have always favoured lowering the ground grading standards for the lower divisions. I do not see the current ecomonic situation changes this, but whereas I understand 1-2-3-6, 1-2-4-8 and other patterns are all viable, I see little economic reason for change.

The economic reason for change is staring you in the face. Nearly all league clubs are unviable in the extreme and if it weren't for the compliance of less-than-diligent accountants and cloud-cuckoo boards would have been wound up long ago as not being going concerns. And this despite charging the highest admission prices in the world - and THAT particular economic bridge has yet to be crossed. Mark my words, there will be significant drops in season-ticket take up's during the summer because the "product" on offer is just not worth the money. To assist clubs in their hour of need, and to assist the constantly ripped-off mug-punters, regionalisation at level 4 is an economic and social must. Personally, I don't believe crowds would dip at all for levels 4/5 and beyond. The habit of following your local (established) club is very deep-seated in this country and that habit/loyalty/regional pride - call it what you will - should be fostered, not abused. And the way to do that is to keep it affordable, and one of the ways to do that is....................well, it ain't rocket science ! And if levels 4 and 5 aren't full-time - well, tell me what's the problem with that ?


vienna1964
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Re: [leohoenig] The New Economy: Should restructuring be restructured ? [In reply to] Can't Post or

Thanks for those thoughts leo... howerver, I argue from the platform that there is already no possible 'fix' for what we have done to the world, certainly none able to return the planet's climate system to anything resembling that which we have 'enjoyed' until now... and that we have set in motion a series of absolutely unstoppable changes that we must (excuse the pun) weather or become extinct !

Call me Cassandra if you wish, but that is the background which I anticipate becoming widely realised and understood within a five to ten year period from now and which means that all aspects of life will have to be radically rethought... football amongst them.

My references to a 'new shiny President' are simply observations that the present incumbent has never been President before, has only been President for a very short time and has yet to lose the lustre of his election victory by dint of that very novelty !
However, there IS an ulterior meaning insofar as once one has studied the Presidential attitude to global ecological and climatic prognoses & the intelligent recruitment of scientific advisers, one may determine that there is definitely a new pragmatic assimilation of the necessary measures now needed to partially mitigate the disaster that is coming.

Certainly then, I foresee EVERY ASPECT of lifestyle being affected by this situation by 2015/2020 and I think it would not hurt to pre-empt this in our little footie microcosm, starting now !

Adding to buncrana's expositions... I think that the financial arguments you have stated are right on, however I do not agree with your notions as to the acceptability to supporters if their teams switch from National Divisions to Regional Divisions &/or go from being Professional to Semi-Pro !

You are perfectly correct that something like you have suggested will be inevitable. The secret to its success or failure in respect of fans' attitudes will however be down to the efficiency of the public relations output concerning the necessary changes.

Bluntly: retrograde moves as are needed WILL NOT be popular amongst the rank and file, no matter how necessary - unless a model for change can be publicly demonstrated to have very many more positives than negatives and of course, that is where the efficient PR machine fits in.



I APOLOGISE UNRESERVEDLY TO EACH AND EVERY PERSON ON THIS FORUM WHO HAS FELT LET-DOWN BY MY INIMICABLE AND DEPLORABLE BEHAVIOUR OF OCTOBER 28th. 2009. ESPECIALLY TO BRIAN, WHO IS A MARVELLOUS GENTLEMAN AND IS THE LAST PERSON HERE WHO SHOULD HAVE TO PUT UP WITH SUCH UNDESERVED PERSONAL CHARACTER-ASSASSINATION. LET IT BE KNOWN THAT A PRIVATE PERSONAL APOLOGY WAS SENT, BUT WAS SEEN INSUFFICIENT. FAIR ENOUGH.


buncranaboy
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Re: [vienna1964] The New Economy: Should restructuring be restructured ? [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

 
I know it's a long time ago now, and a different era but - when Divisions 3 and 4 went national replacing the regionalised Div 3 North and South - did attendances increase or decrease and what was the thinking behind moving from two to four national divisions. Was there not an outcry then as well or was it simply to appease the bigger fish in the old Div 3N and 3S who until then had only one promotion place - and no play-off system - to aim for each season.

If that's the case, then those fears could be allayed by the play-off systems that we now all know and, er, love and there's no doubt that that their presence has kept alive the seasons of many clubs who would formerly have been merely going through the motions. As long as the route back is kept clearly open, I really do not foresee a cataclysmic drop in the crowds attending level 4 and 5 matches. As I said before, the history and the habits are deeply ingrained and whilst it's not an example that would necessarily apply to all clubs (and not many would want to test the theory !) Halifax are not drawing hugely different crowds now in their sorry level 8 existence that they were in their pre-conference days at levels 3 and 4 when they were almost perennial strugglers with crowds often in the region of 1,500.


Mr. T
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Re: [leohoenig] The New Economy: Should restructuring be restructured ? [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


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...the Kyoto protocols remain unratified...


Good.


UKPunk
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Re: [buncranaboy] The New Economy: Should restructuring be restructured ? [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

I agree with buncranaboy on the point of crowd levels. If anything stops people from watching their club it's far more likely to be because they can no longer afford the price of the ticket than the league structure they find their club a part of. As long as there is the possibility of promotion to the next level as opposed to a 'glass ceiling' I don't think they'll care whether they're in a regional league or not. In fact, crowds might even increase because those that follow their club away from home won't have to travel as far and so will find it cheaper to get to games.

As I've said before, some of the ground criteria are unnecessary and for some clubs unworkable. I realise that many posters are far more knowledgable than I regarding the complexities of the pyramid structure and the difficulties involved in making changes, but I'd still like to see more regionalisation at a higher level. How this is to be brought about and on what timescale would of course be open to discussion.



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GW
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Re: [UKPunk] The New Economy: Should restructuring be restructured ? [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

i personally would like to see all football regionalised except for cup competitions, so for instance a Berkshire league would include Reading,Maidenhead United,Windsor and Eton, Slough Town etc etc and say a Bucks League which would include MKdons,Wycombe wanderers,Marlow,Flackwell Heath,Chalfonts etc, lancs leagues,london leagues, if you get the pictureSly


PaulC
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In Reply To
I agree with buncranaboy on the point of crowd levels. If anything stops people from watching their club it's far more likely to be because they can no longer afford the price of the ticket than the league structure they find their club a part of.



But there can be no doubt that fans are more likely to follow their team away from home, the more local the competition is.


UKPunk
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Re: [PaulC] The New Economy: Should restructuring be restructured ? [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


In Reply To

In Reply To
I agree with buncranaboy on the point of crowd levels. If anything stops people from watching their club it's far more likely to be because they can no longer afford the price of the ticket than the league structure they find their club a part of.



But there can be no doubt that fans are more likely to follow their team away from home, the more local the competition is.

Exactly. For me the only question is at what level regionalisation should begin. It should be borne in mind that the higher it starts the more it affects clubs further down the pyramid. If for example League 2 and Conference National were regionalised how would the leagues below be structured and what sort of timescale would be involved before the whole thing was finished?



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RRYFS
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Re: [GW] The New Economy: Should restructuring be restructured ? [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


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i personally would like to see all football regionalised except for cup competitions, so for instance a Berkshire league would include Reading,Maidenhead United,Windsor and Eton, Slough Town etc etc and say a Bucks League which would include MKdons,Wycombe wanderers,Marlow,Flackwell Heath,Chalfonts etc, lancs leagues,london leagues, if you get the pictureSly


Hmm - interesting concept. See below a possible 20 club Dorset League, based (unless I've forgotten anyone) on current league positions. Can't see the plod letting AFCB play at Holt somehow.


Dorset League
AFC Bournemouth
Weymouth
Dorchester Town
Poole Town
Wimborne Town
Hamworthy United
Christchurch
Sherborne Town
Bournemouth
Bridport
Verwood Town
Gillingham Town
Shaftesbury
Portland United
Hamworthy Recreation
Poole Borough
Holt United
Swanage Town & Herston
Bournemouth University
Chickerell United


GW
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Re: [RRYFS] The New Economy: Should restructuring be restructured ? [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

London would be split for example crystal palace,charlton,afc wombledon,millwall,leyton orient,kingstonian,dulwich hamlet, Maybe ashford town(kent)


hucknallite
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Re: [leohoenig] The New Economy: Should restructuring be restructured ? [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


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So blow away the smoke, put away the mirrors - the world has not changed overnight.
(I am 50 years old, the world has not changed overnight on any night in those 50 years - the last time that happened was August 6th, 1945 - there has been one major change in the world order in my life, but it was gradual, not sudden. Its start date, as near as can be reckoned was February 21 1972).


Hiroshima and Nixon's visit to China?


leohoenig
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Re: [hucknallite] The New Economy: Should restructuring be restructured ? [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

Yes, Hucknalite. Seems everyone else ignored the dates, although in this day and age, they come easily from Wikipedia.
Hiroshima - obvious - World War was no longer a viable proposition. The cold war stayed cold (with hot spots)
Nixon - to my mind the event that started to knock down to dominoes, leading (but not inevitably) to the end of the cold war, and the current financial crisis.



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Now blogging at http://www.leohoenig.com



hucknallite
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Re: [leohoenig] The New Economy: Should restructuring be restructured ? [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


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Yes, Hucknalite. Seems everyone else ignored the dates, although in this day and age, they come easily from Wikipedia.
Hiroshima - obvious - World War was no longer a viable proposition. The cold war stayed cold (with hot spots)
Nixon - to my mind the event that started to knock down to dominoes, leading (but not inevitably) to the end of the cold war, and the current financial crisis.


All this on a thread about restructuring non-league football. That's why I love this forum! I'd go for 23rd August 1989. Hungary opens its border with Austria and the resulting mass exodus makes the decline of communism inevitable.


(This post was edited by hucknallite on Feb 23, 2009, 11:31 AM)


Grecian
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Re: [UKPunk] The New Economy: Should restructuring be restructured ? [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

My very quick two cents:

cent 1: unpopular though it would be (particularly with the leagues themselves) making a clean break by starting completely from scratch with a blank sheet with regard to leagues/levels/club distribution is perhaps going to produce something more coherent and workable than the current and recent seemingly ad hoc process of realigning the current set up - and then going either fully pooled across each level or having fixed regional boundaries with flexible league sizes (a la Vienna's suggestions).

cent 2: although nearly every suggested pyramid for below the 1-1-1-1-1 has increasing numbers of leagues at each step, it might not be inappropriate in some areas or levels to not increase e.g. 1-1-2-2 for the top 4 levels (Prem; champ; LN & LS; ConfN & ConfS) and even 1-1-2-2-3-3 or -4-4. (this thought is a work in progress - and I have to get back to 'real' work...


vienna1964
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In Reply To
My very quick two cents:

cent 1: unpopular though it would be (particularly with the leagues themselves) making a clean break by starting completely from scratch with a blank sheet with regard to leagues/levels/club distribution is perhaps going to produce something more coherent and workable than the current and recent seemingly ad hoc process of realigning the current set up - and then going either fully pooled across each level or having fixed regional boundaries with flexible league sizes (a la Vienna's suggestions).

cent 2: although nearly every suggested pyramid for below the 1-1-1-1-1 has increasing numbers of leagues at each step, it might not be inappropriate in some areas or levels to not increase e.g. 1-1-2-2 for the top 4 levels (Prem; champ; LN & LS; ConfN & ConfS) and even 1-1-2-2-3-3 or -4-4. (this thought is a work in progress - and I have to get back to 'real' work...



Exactly the thrust of this topic Grecian.

The WORLD is going to HAVE TO DO THE SAME with a vast number of issues in the VERY NEAR FUTURE, so it is not inappropriate for us to reimagine how we'd do our little bit to help - even though this particular topic might be considered in more stolid circles as 'pie-in-the-sky' thinking, I prefer to think of it as 'prescient-blue-sky' thinking myself !



I APOLOGISE UNRESERVEDLY TO EACH AND EVERY PERSON ON THIS FORUM WHO HAS FELT LET-DOWN BY MY INIMICABLE AND DEPLORABLE BEHAVIOUR OF OCTOBER 28th. 2009. ESPECIALLY TO BRIAN, WHO IS A MARVELLOUS GENTLEMAN AND IS THE LAST PERSON HERE WHO SHOULD HAVE TO PUT UP WITH SUCH UNDESERVED PERSONAL CHARACTER-ASSASSINATION. LET IT BE KNOWN THAT A PRIVATE PERSONAL APOLOGY WAS SENT, BUT WAS SEEN INSUFFICIENT. FAIR ENOUGH.


KnowYourMarket
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Feb 23, 2009, 4:33 PM

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Re: [buncranaboy] The New Economy: Should restructuring be restructured ? [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

In response to Buncranaboy's thoughts on the difference in attendances when we went from regional divisions to national ones there was actually a 3.25% reduction in the aggregate attendances across the clubs, you can see the comparison at this link

http://www.modelhobbies.co.uk/div3ntodiv4.htm



Last ground visited(update requested by Spud): Wellington . New grounds 18/19: 38


noprogs
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Re: [modelhobbies] The New Economy: Should restructuring be restructured ? [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


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In response to Buncranaboy's thoughts on the difference in attendances when we went from regional divisions to national ones there was actually a 3.25% reduction in the aggregate attendances across the clubs, you can see the comparison at this link

http://www.modelhobbies.co.uk/div3ntodiv4.htm



One point to add there though is the fact that the post-war attendance boom in all sports was just starting to die.


buncranaboy
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Re: [noprogs] The New Economy: Should restructuring be restructured ? [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

It's interesting nonetheless to see that the abolition of regional division three's had an immediate adverse affect on attendances - you'd have thought there would have been an initial bounce.

I still hold that there would not be fewer in attendance for say, Rochdale vs Bury in a new Div 3N than they would get today. And surely Rochdale/Bury vs Altrincham or whoever would be more beneficial to everyone than the equivalent fixture against Exeter/Gillingham/Bournemouth et al............
And more so if it were possible to admit spectators for say 12 rather than the 50% above that charged currently by many clubs at that level.


Gray
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Re: [vienna1964] The New Economy: Should restructuring be restructured ? [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


In Reply To

In Reply To
My very quick two cents:

cent 1: unpopular though it would be (particularly with the leagues themselves) making a clean break by starting completely from scratch with a blank sheet with regard to leagues/levels/club distribution is perhaps going to produce something more coherent and workable than the current and recent seemingly ad hoc process of realigning the current set up - and then going either fully pooled across each level or having fixed regional boundaries with flexible league sizes (a la Vienna's suggestions).

cent 2: although nearly every suggested pyramid for below the 1-1-1-1-1 has increasing numbers of leagues at each step, it might not be inappropriate in some areas or levels to not increase e.g. 1-1-2-2 for the top 4 levels (Prem; champ; LN & LS; ConfN & ConfS) and even 1-1-2-2-3-3 or -4-4. (this thought is a work in progress - and I have to get back to 'real' work...



Exactly the thrust of this topic Grecian.

The WORLD is going to HAVE TO DO THE SAME with a vast number of issues in the VERY NEAR FUTURE, so it is not inappropriate for us to reimagine how we'd do our little bit to help - even though this particular topic might be considered in more stolid circles as 'pie-in-the-sky' thinking, I prefer to think of it as 'prescient-blue-sky' thinking myself !


Fully agree but you then have to find an unbiased committee of people to draw up the blank sheet, good luck in finding them. Another option would be for the FA to open up a competition for everyone to send in their proposals & then say 10 are shortlisted with each Full member club of the FA getting a vote whittling it down to say 3 proposals who are voted on again. Once the final structure is agreed at the end of the season a computer fills up the leagues on a predetermined basis of ground grading & previous league positions. We could even have a prediction game on which club ends up in what league !! It will never happen !


Three Sides
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Re: [vienna1964] The New Economy: Should restructuring be restructured ? [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

Just regionalising League 1 and 2 doesn't go far enough.

Football (and everyone) has to take reducing emissions and costs very very seriously.

The FA could take a green lead and reduce costs and CO2 from the very top.

The 20 team premiership appears to work very well. Below that the Championship could be expanded to 40 clubs (Northern & Southern Divisions)
Then at the 3rd Level the Football League with 4 Divisions of 20 (North, Midlands, West & South)

Non-league would then be at level 4. To maintain the pyramid it would be of 8 leagues (again 20 teams each) served by 16 regional divisions.

Result: Higher Attendances (more local derbies, smaller leagues making more competitive games)
Lower costs (Less, much less travelling)
More teams surviving the economic downturn

A quick mock-up of what the top 4 levels could look like is at http://www.averyenergy.co.uk/footballrestructure.htm


vienna1964
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Re: [Gray] The New Economy: Should restructuring be restructured ? [In reply to] Can't Post or

Nice replies folks.

We are now taking one or two 'liberties' with putative events in the near-future, brought about largely by a combination of the financial ramifications of the present global meltdown, consequent collapse in the world's petrochemical industries and the logical outfall of changes to a new 'green economy'. Flight of fancy perhaps, but this allows us to take a refreshingly alternative view to that which we are used !

Regionalisation appears to be an immediate focus-point of our mental perambulation, so where to bring it in and how will it affect things if it is brought in ?

(My take on this - at some length is as attached - so those unprepared to do mental battle may sidestep !)


Pricing has also been seen as an important factor - what will all-round reductions in pricing do for teams ? What are the negatives implied by doing so and do possible positives outweigh these ?


And then... that old, favourite bugbear of ours: Ground Gradings. How shall we redefine this factor in some newly sensible manner to be as green as possible ? Do we really need all those extra stands to be left empty every match ? Are any/many of these regulations malleable in the light of expected changes in the world order ?



I APOLOGISE UNRESERVEDLY TO EACH AND EVERY PERSON ON THIS FORUM WHO HAS FELT LET-DOWN BY MY INIMICABLE AND DEPLORABLE BEHAVIOUR OF OCTOBER 28th. 2009. ESPECIALLY TO BRIAN, WHO IS A MARVELLOUS GENTLEMAN AND IS THE LAST PERSON HERE WHO SHOULD HAVE TO PUT UP WITH SUCH UNDESERVED PERSONAL CHARACTER-ASSASSINATION. LET IT BE KNOWN THAT A PRIVATE PERSONAL APOLOGY WAS SENT, BUT WAS SEEN INSUFFICIENT. FAIR ENOUGH.

(This post was edited by vienna1964 on Feb 23, 2009, 9:24 PM)


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Re: [Gray] The New Economy: Should restructuring be restructured ? [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


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Fully agree but you then have to find an unbiased committee of people to draw up the blank sheet, good luck in finding them. Another option would be for the FA to open up a competition for everyone to send in their proposals & then say 10 are shortlisted with each Full member club of the FA getting a vote whittling it down to say 3 proposals who are voted on again. Once the final structure is agreed at the end of the season a computer fills up the leagues on a predetermined basis of ground grading & previous league positions. We could even have a prediction game on which club ends up in what league !! It will never happen !

The overriding problem that prohibits any decisive and lasting restructuring policy is the fact that the FA are an association and NOT an authority. As such they can only negotiate with leagues. They have no power of enforcement and to a large extent if any particular league committee doesn't like what the FA are asking them to do they are quite within their rights to tell the FA to go to hell. Until a way is found to place the whole of football under the authority of one body the restructuring saga will never reach a satisfactory and settled conclusion.



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