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Home: Non-League Football Discussion: Restructuring Discussion:
What steps 1-4 may look like in 2009/10

 

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oftenscore6
Chelsea Transfer Target

May 18, 2009, 11:25 PM

Posts: 5234
Location: Saddleworth
Team(s): FCUM, MUFC, Hammarby, St Pauli, Hawthorn (AFL)

Post #176 of 206 (45977 views)
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Re: [T P] What steps 1-4 may look like in 2009/10 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


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I may be missing something, but why are Horsham YMCA being promoted when they finished in third?


Allegedly if one of Eastbourne United and Arundel fail the ground grading, then placing them at the bottom of the table (even if not eventually relegated) would allow the team finishing 3rd (ie Horsham YMCA) to be eligible for promotion. But when I posted asking for news about those two, no-one could give me any answers whether they had failed the ground grading?



-----------------------------------------------
Last new football ground (956) Wellington 0-2 Exmouth Town
With FC United: 134
On the agenda:
15/10 FC United v Basford United
16/10 Ashland Rovers v Underwood Villa
19/10 Atherton Collieries v FC United

(This post was edited by oftenscore6 on May 18, 2009, 11:25 PM)


springfield
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May 19, 2009, 6:18 PM

Posts: 10
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Post #177 of 206 (45739 views)
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Re: [oftenscore6] What steps 1-4 may look like in 2009/10 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

Lowestoft Town have confirmed they have been placed in the RYMAN League!

http://www.nonleaguedaily.com/...e=FULL&nid=57869

Congratulations to Lowestoft on a well deserved promotion.

This seems to be contrary to all rumours of the Ryman not taking the East Anglian clubs. Quite where this leaves the rest of us god only knows. I'm fearing the worst possible solution for us IMO which would be for the East Anglian clubs to be split up.Mad


(This post was edited by springfield on May 19, 2009, 7:06 PM)


busky
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May 19, 2009, 6:27 PM

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Post #178 of 206 (45731 views)
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Re: [springfield] What steps 1-4 may look like in 2009/10 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

Just how is it that Lowestoft have been told and other clubs wanting to move (back) to the Ryman (AFC Sudbury) cannot find out anything.

Lowestoft can supposedly get on with their planning, talking to players when others can't.

Lowestoft is ome 65 miles further north that Sudbury so some explaining will be in order should AFC not be allowed back!!!



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rugby in exile
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May 19, 2009, 7:02 PM

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Post #179 of 206 (45688 views)
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Re: [busky] What steps 1-4 may look like in 2009/10 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

How can Lowestoft possibly go into the Ryman. lets get sensible about this. If natural progress occurs for lowestoft and they gain two promotions we can guess which league they would want to go in but the reality would be they will be placed in the conference North unless the geographical split changes dramtically. we will then be seeing Ryman league teams going into The conference north. My personal opinion and no disrespect o Lowestoft or any other team is that if you gain promotion it is all good to state which league is your preference to play in but surely to be playing in a higher league is the aim and achievement of a season of hard work by all involved in that particular club. The league that your team is placed in is therefore not relevant. seems that the whole structure of Northern, southern and ryman league is getting messy as well as the conference north and south
looking at the map of North and south and bearing in mind i imagine that neither gloucester or wocester will be moved sideways i look at the next most southernly club. I think this looks like Bishops stortford or Braintree. unless the clubs getting promoted / relegated next season is favourable geographically!!! just a few of my opinions and thought to start off with.


SimonG
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May 19, 2009, 8:22 PM

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Post #180 of 206 (45610 views)
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Re: [rugby in exile] What steps 1-4 may look like in 2009/10 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

A team already has gone directly from the Ryman to Conference North.
Kettering Town finished 9th in the Ryman in 2003-04 and were founder members of Conf. North the next season. Kettering would I think be slightly south of Lowestoft.


rugby in exile
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May 19, 2009, 8:48 PM

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Post #181 of 206 (45562 views)
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Re: [SimonG] What steps 1-4 may look like in 2009/10 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

point in case there simon - if they were relegated now they would surely be in the southern league. here goes the crazy merry go round.


stingray
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May 19, 2009, 9:58 PM

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Post #182 of 206 (45479 views)
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Re: [springfield] What steps 1-4 may look like in 2009/10 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


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Lowestoft Town have confirmed they have been placed in the RYMAN League!



Thank God - the trip to Kirkley and Pakefield was an absolute b****r. I'll bet Stourport and Bromsgrove are pleased as well.Wink



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AndyE
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May 19, 2009, 10:02 PM

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Post #183 of 206 (45474 views)
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Re: [stingray] What steps 1-4 may look like in 2009/10 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

Now I'm really confused. The Isthmian League management had said, in pretty much as many words, "we do not and will not have Suffolk clubs in our league".

Does the FA have the power to tell the Isthmian League that it has who it's given? If not, what has changed?


SeanM
Youth Team Star


May 19, 2009, 11:27 PM

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Post #184 of 206 (45378 views)
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Re: [AndyE] What steps 1-4 may look like in 2009/10 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


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Now I'm really confused. The Isthmian League management had said, in pretty much as many words, "we do not and will not have Suffolk clubs in our league".

Does the FA have the power to tell the Isthmian League that it has who it's given? If not, what has changed?

Perhaps a diplomatic solution was reached ... or someone made them an offer that they could not refuse. Angelic



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oftenscore6
Chelsea Transfer Target

May 20, 2009, 12:19 AM

Posts: 5234
Location: Saddleworth
Team(s): FCUM, MUFC, Hammarby, St Pauli, Hawthorn (AFL)

Post #185 of 206 (45353 views)
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Re: [rugby in exile] What steps 1-4 may look like in 2009/10 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


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How can Lowestoft possibly go into the Ryman. lets get sensible about this. If natural progress occurs for lowestoft and they gain two promotions we can guess which league they would want to go in but the reality would be they will be placed in the conference North unless the geographical split changes dramtically. we will then be seeing Ryman league teams going into The conference north. My personal opinion and no disrespect o Lowestoft or any other team is that if you gain promotion it is all good to state which league is your preference to play in but surely to be playing in a higher league is the aim and achievement of a season of hard work by all involved in that particular club. The league that your team is placed in is therefore not relevant. seems that the whole structure of Northern, southern and ryman league is getting messy as well as the conference north and south
looking at the map of North and south and bearing in mind i imagine that neither gloucester or wocester will be moved sideways i look at the next most southernly club. I think this looks like Bishops stortford or Braintree. unless the clubs getting promoted / relegated next season is favourable geographically!!! just a few of my opinions and thought to start off with.


I think it's clear that Lowestoft would have much lower travelling costs being in IL1N than SL1M; and the overall impact of putting the east Anglian clubs in IL1N rather than SL1M is lower, as TK's maps have indicated before. Keeping overall travelling costs down seems good to me.

Re Conference North / South, if Lowestoft get there, they could well be placed in Conference North, but things could have moved back by then. For the first 4 years, Worcester were the most southerly Conference North side whilst Cambridge or Histon (which is actually a little further north) were the most northerly in Conference South. The imbalance coming down from the Conference of 3 Northern teams and no Southern (thanks to Halifax Town's demise) would actually have been corrected this year (with 3:1 southern:northern Conference relegatees) if Worcester switched back.



-----------------------------------------------
Last new football ground (956) Wellington 0-2 Exmouth Town
With FC United: 134
On the agenda:
15/10 FC United v Basford United
16/10 Ashland Rovers v Underwood Villa
19/10 Atherton Collieries v FC United


coupwotcoup
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May 20, 2009, 9:11 AM

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Post #186 of 206 (45251 views)
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Re: [oftenscore6] What steps 1-4 may look like in 2009/10 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

Another plus in Lowestoft entering Rymanland, is the fact that the A12 is a major trunk road out of the town and offers easy access to the majority of clubs in the North division.



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blackdouglas
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May 20, 2009, 9:09 PM

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Post #187 of 206 (45059 views)
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Re: [coupwotcoup] What steps 1-4 may look like in 2009/10 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

And direct trains out of Liverpool Street, (when they run).



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eesti7
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May 20, 2009, 11:43 PM

Posts: 1001
Location: Kent
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Post #188 of 206 (44952 views)
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Re: [SimonG] What steps 1-4 may look like in 2009/10 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


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A team already has gone directly from the Ryman to Conference North.
Kettering Town finished 9th in the Ryman in 2003-04 and were founder members of Conf. North the next season. Kettering would I think be slightly south of Lowestoft.



How on earth did Kettering ever end up in the Ryman League?!?


Mr. T
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May 21, 2009, 12:01 AM

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Post #189 of 206 (44941 views)
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Re: [eesti7] What steps 1-4 may look like in 2009/10 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

eesti7 wrote: "How on earth did Kettering ever end up in the Ryman League?!?"

In 2003, Kettering were relegated from the Conference for the second time in three seasons and accepted a place in the IL instead of the SL. Nuneaton had also been relegated and were placed in the SL; any one of several SL clubs could have been transferred to the IL to make way for Kettering, but they decided that because their last-day promotion from the SL the the year before was so stressful, they would go for the IL which was 'easier to win'.

Whether chairman Peter Mallinger actually said this or merely had his words 'reinterpreted' is now a matter of conjecture but that's how it was reported at the time and 23 IL clubs presumably pinned the offending newspaper article to their changing room walls when Kettering visited. They finished a mere 33 points behind champions Canvey Island and took four years to get out of Conference North.

Peter Mallinger is now at Corby where he organises open-top bus tours (http://www.thelinnets.co.uk/...ex.php?topic=51824.0)


(This post was edited by Mr. T on May 21, 2009, 1:26 AM)


Mr. T
Chelsea Transfer Target


May 21, 2009, 12:03 AM

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Post #190 of 206 (44938 views)
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Re: [coupwotcoup] What steps 1-4 may look like in 2009/10 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


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Another plus in Lowestoft entering Rymanland, is the fact that the A12 is a major trunk road out of the town and offers easy access to the majority of clubs in the North division.


Hmm. Not for the first 30 miles, I'd say.


Spacewaster
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May 21, 2009, 9:30 AM

Posts: 34
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Post #191 of 206 (44808 views)
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Re: [rugby in exile] What steps 1-4 may look like in 2009/10 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


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How can Lowestoft possibly go into the Ryman. lets get sensible about this. If natural progress occurs for lowestoft and they gain two promotions we can guess which league they would want to go in but the reality would be they will be placed in the conference North unless the geographical split changes dramtically. we will then be seeing Ryman league teams going into The conference north.


Perhaps the problem lies with calling divisions 'North' and 'South'. If England were a perfect rectangle, all would be fine and hunky-dory, but it ain't. It's always going to make more sense for East Anglian clubs to look southwards, as that's the way the roads go; Similarly, it's as easy for a Somerset side to head to Derbyshire as to Kent.

Do as the French do with regional divisions, mix them up a little and call them Pool A and Pool B.


rugby in exile
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May 21, 2009, 6:31 PM

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Post #192 of 206 (44598 views)
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Re: [Spacewaster] What steps 1-4 may look like in 2009/10 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

ok lets get these geographical issues correct. a12 major road agree but so is a14 and that is totally dual carraigeway. financial issues i do agree with. but i do see some local derbies there there against the other suffolk teams. as i regularly commute along the a12 i do realise this is a very busy road and i for one would not fancy a midweek trip from lowestoft to north london area? its all beyond me. good luck to lowestoft for next season is all i say and i hope they dont get moved leagues after a couple of years because more southerly teams are promoted / relegated.

would be nice if there were some official guidelines as to what consitutes the three leagues offical areas at this stage or is there not such a thing as this?


pokal02
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May 21, 2009, 7:19 PM

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Post #193 of 206 (44562 views)
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Re: [rugby in exile] What steps 1-4 may look like in 2009/10 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

Lowestoft to Wingate isn't great, I agree, but surely quicker (even if longer) than Lowestoft to somewhere like Stourport?


UKPunk
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May 21, 2009, 11:42 PM

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Post #194 of 206 (44430 views)
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Re: [Spacewaster] What steps 1-4 may look like in 2009/10 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


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In Reply To

Perhaps the problem lies with calling divisions 'North' and 'South'. If England were a perfect rectangle, all would be fine and hunky-dory, but it ain't.

Do as the French do with regional divisions, mix them up a little and call them Pool A and Pool B.

It wouldn't. The clubs nearest the four corners would still have more travelling to do than anyone else so there would still be losers in the mileage game.

As I've said before, pool all the clubs at a given step, average out the numbers in each league, and use a computer programme that works out 'best fit' based on mileage and travelling times to decide constitutions. Do away with area titles for leagues and just call them, for example, Step 5A, 5B, 5C etc.



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rabbit
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May 22, 2009, 11:46 AM

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Re: [Tony Kempster] What steps 1-4 may look like in 2009/10 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

Atherstone have applied to join the unibond.


Three Sides
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May 24, 2009, 6:43 PM

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Post #196 of 206 (43976 views)
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Re: [rabbit] What steps 1-4 may look like in 2009/10 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

I know we only have a couple of days to wait before the FA announcement.

The link is to updated Maps for Steps 1-4 based on some of the regular rumours on the message board.

Chester City relegated to Blue Square North (Saving Gloucester City moving north)
Eastern teams in the Isthmian
The five new teams announced by the Southern League
Newcaastle Blue Star resigning
Atherstone to the Unibond

http://www.mikeavery.co.uk/Steps%201-4.htm


dave
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May 24, 2009, 7:30 PM

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Post #197 of 206 (43938 views)
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Re: [Three Sides] What steps 1-4 may look like in 2009/10 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

The Chester City rumour is based on nothing BUT rumour though!

Surely only confirmed things should be used, especially at such a high level up.


Three Sides
Reserve Team Star


May 24, 2009, 7:59 PM

Posts: 734
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Post #198 of 206 (43917 views)
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Re: [dave] What steps 1-4 may look like in 2009/10 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

Yes, Thank you Dave, good point.

I have added a disclaimer to the start on the page to reflect your observations.


oftenscore6
Chelsea Transfer Target

May 25, 2009, 12:08 AM

Posts: 5234
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Team(s): FCUM, MUFC, Hammarby, St Pauli, Hawthorn (AFL)

Post #199 of 206 (43780 views)
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Re: [Three Sides] What steps 1-4 may look like in 2009/10 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

Good work!

I would also assume that Northwich Vics will be expelled by the Conference, having gone into administration (Boston precedent).



-----------------------------------------------
Last new football ground (956) Wellington 0-2 Exmouth Town
With FC United: 134
On the agenda:
15/10 FC United v Basford United
16/10 Ashland Rovers v Underwood Villa
19/10 Atherton Collieries v FC United


Simesy
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May 25, 2009, 10:00 AM

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Post #200 of 206 (43697 views)
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Re: What steps 1-4 may look like in 2009/10 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

Could the Lowestoft situation not just be the club trying to influence where they are put by announcing it as a fait accompli? Maybe they are working on the presumption that the FA are arses and might just put them in their preferred division.



Simesy

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