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Home: Non-League Football Discussion: Restructuring Discussion:
Applicants for promotion to Step 4

 

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MattRamLives
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Apr 18, 2009, 8:23 AM

Posts: 964
Location: Tibshelf Services - nearly
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Post #76 of 97 (6559 views)
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Re: [Football Man] Applicants for promotion to Step 4 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

NCEL site says all 4 left in Prem title chase have E Grade
Mickleover, Long Eaton, Selby and Bridlington ( I guess that means Scarbourough Athletic as well)
Mickleover are away to Selby today - a win would leave Long Eaton as their only rivals


The Exile
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Apr 18, 2009, 9:51 PM

Posts: 62
Location: Hemel Hempstead, Hertfordshire
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Post #77 of 97 (6432 views)
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Re: [MattRamLives] Applicants for promotion to Step 4 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

Selby kept their slim hopes alive with a 1-0 victory over Mickleover, Long Eaton also won, and Mickleover play Long Eaton on Saturday, but also have 2 more games midweek, so could win it before then.


cooksmad
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Apr 19, 2009, 11:32 AM

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Post #78 of 97 (6304 views)
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Re: [Football Man] Applicants for promotion to Step 4 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


In Reply To
And Stotfold have plans for a new ground.

FM



I've been to Stotfold before, with it's current structure and there's simply no need to get a new ground.

All Stotfold need to do is add a bit more cover to the present ground, and then you'll have a fantastic chance of going up- that is if you applyWink


Football Man
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Apr 19, 2009, 12:33 PM

Posts: 132
Location: Hitchin
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Post #79 of 97 (6266 views)
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Re: [cooksmad] Applicants for promotion to Step 4 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

And turnstiles?

FM


cooksmad
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Apr 19, 2009, 1:38 PM

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Post #80 of 97 (6233 views)
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Re: [Football Man] Applicants for promotion to Step 4 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

   
Good Point,

But that isn't hard to achive, and personally i hope Stotfold go up, As i think it is ridiculous that say Sleaford Town have to go to Hertfordshire for a league game at Step 5.


AndyE
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Apr 19, 2009, 3:59 PM

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Post #81 of 97 (6196 views)
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Re: [cooksmad] Applicants for promotion to Step 4 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

In the interests of utter pedantry, Stotfold is in Bedfordshire. The last Hertfordshire club in the UCL was Baldock Town (promoted to SL 1987).

This does not invalidate the point you were making.


acmold
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Apr 20, 2009, 10:05 AM

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Post #82 of 97 (6055 views)
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Re: [AndyE] Applicants for promotion to Step 4 [In reply to] Can't Post or

According to the AA Stotfold to Sleaford is only 78.7 miles, which at step 5 is not that excessive. Though I do believe Stotfold would be better off in the SML.

Though it is in Beds the AA seem to think Stotfold is in Herts as well, presume it has a Herts based postcode, it's listed as Stotfold, Hitchin, Herts.


VP
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Apr 20, 2009, 10:23 AM

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Post #83 of 97 (6045 views)
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Re: [acmold] Applicants for promotion to Step 4 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


In Reply To
Though it is in Beds the AA seem to think Stotfold is in Herts as well, presume it has a Herts based postcode, it's listed as Stotfold, Hitchin, Herts.


Stotfold is SG5 so the Royal Mail office that serves it is Hitchin. SG5 covers a few villages in both Hertfordshire and Bedfordshire.


(This post was edited by VP on Apr 20, 2009, 10:23 AM)


Mr. T
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Apr 20, 2009, 10:30 AM

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Post #84 of 97 (6039 views)
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Re: [acmold] Applicants for promotion to Step 4 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


In Reply To
Though it is in Beds the AA seem to think Stotfold is in Herts as well, presume it has a Herts based postcode, it's listed as Stotfold, Hitchin, Herts.


Where counties are included in addresses, the convention is that the county, where placed after the postal town, is that of the postal town even though the property is in another county. Postcodes frequently cross county boundaries. I have one particular acquaintance with a three-county address: village in Bucks, postal town in Oxon (Henley), postcode town Berks (RG).


KnowYourMarket
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Apr 21, 2009, 12:46 PM

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Post #85 of 97 (5864 views)
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Re: [Mr. T] Applicants for promotion to Step 4 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

Counties do not appear in official postal addresses. Town and postcode only.



Last ground visited(update requested by Spud): Wellington . New grounds 18/19: 38


Mr. T
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Apr 21, 2009, 1:10 PM

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Post #86 of 97 (5841 views)
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Re: [modelhobbies] Applicants for promotion to Step 4 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


In Reply To
Counties do not appear in official postal addresses. Town and postcode only.


Well, pardon me for expressing an opinion. Acmold's point was that the AA listed Stotfold under Hitchin, Herts, following a convention that existed long before the invention of the postcode. How dare we put county names in addresses. How reactionary and anachronistic. Mustn't offend the officials, must we?

Saying that an address requires only town and postcode implies that any letter excluding these will not be delivered. In fact, the Royal Mail sorters know their geography better than you imagine; their vast knowledge extends well beyond the postcode, which many senders get wrong anyway. The more information the better as far as they are concerned. The Royal Mail's coherence maniacs in their perfect bureaucratic world may think that their little clumps of numbers and letters represent a triumph of rationalism but the sorters have to live in the real and imperfect world.


Dovecote
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Apr 21, 2009, 1:16 PM

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Post #87 of 97 (5831 views)
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Re: [Mr. T] Applicants for promotion to Step 4 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

what he said.


KnowYourMarket
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Apr 21, 2009, 1:16 PM

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Post #88 of 97 (5832 views)
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Re: [Mr. T] Applicants for promotion to Step 4 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

Don't see the relevance of your response. I was just stating a fact. I don't doubt Royal Mail sorter's knowledge or the fact that letters/parcels will be delivered with even incorrect information. I doubt you know anything I imagine either.

Counties still exist but not in the eyes of the Royal Mail. Stating that letters with a county included will not be delivered is a nonsensical argument too, when did I say that, there is no implication.

House number, street, town, postcode is all that is required. County is used but that is traditional and not a requirement.



Last ground visited(update requested by Spud): Wellington . New grounds 18/19: 38

(This post was edited by modelhobbies on Apr 21, 2009, 1:19 PM)


Mr. T
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Apr 21, 2009, 2:34 PM

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Post #89 of 97 (5775 views)
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Re: [modelhobbies] Applicants for promotion to Step 4 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

The relevance? "Acmold's point was that the AA listed Stotfold under Hitchin, Herts, following a convention that existed long before the invention of the postcode." That's all. It was simply a clarification of his point which you chose to contradict unnecessarily and in a curt manner which led to this exchange, though I expect that you'll argue that it wasn't a contradiction but your own clarification and wasn't curt but merely brief.

Implication? Of course it is an implication. An insistence that only certain information is required for a process implies that omission of that information is unacceptable and the process cannot (or at least might not) be completed, when of course we know that even the most badly addressed mail usually gets delivered, which you admit and which shows that the Royal Mail's official rules could be regarded merely as guidelines and render this a pointless argument! Pax...

I blame AndyE's pedantry! (See post #81.) And Stotfold are still not Step 4 applicants, which is the subject of this thread.

I'll go and lie down now...


VP
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Apr 21, 2009, 4:52 PM

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Post #90 of 97 (5709 views)
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Re: [Mr. T] Applicants for promotion to Step 4 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

If you put a postcode on a letter than you are wasting your time writing the county in. You're quite welcome to put it in if you want. You can put any county you like inbetween a post-town and postcode. It won't be read by the sorting machines.

If you put a post-town on your letter without a postcode then again, you're wasting your time putting a county on it as no-one will read it.

If you don't put a postcode or the correct post-town then a county may be used to sort the mail if all else fails but it's highly possible the mail will go to the wrong area as some counties have more than one mail centre, some have none.

It's not bureaucracy to tell people they don't need a county - it's a product of postcodes and sorting machinery that renders counties irrelevant.
It's like dialling an extra few numbers on a phone once you're already connected - pointless but you're quite welcome to do it if you want.

The Wikipedia article on this is quite good although they mention 1996 as the cut-off date for counties. That may have been the official date given but the process started in 1959 and was basically finished in 1974.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Postal_county

People get uptight about this issue as evidenced by the people of Rutland demanding Royal Mail update a database which they don't actually use, although the database is still available to buy.
All seems a fuss about nothing to me.

VP, Camberley Delivery Office (Surrey but also delivers into Hampshire and Berkshire (or should that be Bracknell Forest Unitary Authority now Berkshire no longer exists?)). Wink


Mr. T
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Apr 21, 2009, 7:08 PM

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Re: [VP] Applicants for promotion to Step 4 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


In Reply To

People get uptight about this issue as evidenced by the people of Rutland demanding Royal Mail update a database which they don't actually use, although the database is still available to buy.
All seems a fuss about nothing to me.


1. Acmold raised a perfectly valid point about the county of a postal town differing from that of the address. I answered him but my response was dismissed by others as a demonstration of irrelevance.

2. If postcodes are perfect then logically a postal town is also irrelevant. Surely then only a name and house number/name is required?!

3. The Wikipedia article seems to use some confusing terminology, talking of 'geographic' counties and 'postal' counties. Surely Tyne & Wear was a new adminstrative county? I'm always a little wary of Wikipedia; a useful starting point but not always to be relied on. I thought the distinction was between historic (ceremonial) counties and administrative counties? Another subject for another time but what a mess this country's made of local government...

4. Do not dismiss people's attachment to place and their sense of identity thereof as a fuss about nothing. That was the essence of my argument (and one that I've used before): how bureaucrats, proceduralists, 'rationalists' (not always very rational) etc seek to dismiss history, culture, habit, custom and sheer quirkiness as something to be despised and eliminated.

5. Stotfold is in Bedfordshire and its postal town is in Hertfordshire. That's where we came in. Fact.


(This post was edited by Mr. T on Apr 21, 2009, 7:12 PM)


VP
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Apr 21, 2009, 11:53 PM

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Post #92 of 97 (5545 views)
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Re: [Mr. T] Applicants for promotion to Step 4 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

1. No comment

2. Correct. Hence why Royal Mail return address stickers for Recorded / Special Delivery only need your name, the first line of your address and the postcode on them. Some people choose to write only their house number/name and postcode as a return address. Fine as far as the sorting machinery is concerned but the delivery postie has to know every postcode they deliver to in order for this to work properly therefore I suggest house name/number, street and postcode as a return address. Post town is optional but desired as I've seen many letters over the years being returned to sender where people have put their own postcode down incorrectly ie. GU15 (Camberley) instead of GU51 (Fleet).

3. Wikipedia is Wikipedia. I might have a go at editing that page myself one day. Might not. The argument about administrative / historical counties is one that has no relevance to Royal Mail but can conjure up intense feelings for some people. As far as I'm concerend a county is only of any use when it comes to deciding which cricket team to support.

4. I understand what you're saying although it's not something I've ever felt myself. Identity is an individual thing. My personal view is that I don't belong to any county, area, country or trading block but it's a fact that I'm from Surrey, English, British and European. I'm neither proud nor ashamed to be any of those.
Being an old punk with anarchist tendancies the very notion of belonging to someone or something is anathema to me. I realise other people don't feel the same way.

5. Can't argue with that.

What was the original question again?


(This post was edited by VP on Apr 21, 2009, 11:53 PM)


UKPunk
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Apr 22, 2009, 12:05 AM

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Post #93 of 97 (5533 views)
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In Reply To

4. I understand what you're saying although it's not something I've ever felt myself. Identity is an individual thing. My personal view is that I don't belong to any county, area, country or trading block but it's a fact that I'm from Surrey, English, British and European. I'm neither proud nor ashamed to be any of those.
Being an old punk with anarchist tendancies the very notion of belonging to someone or something is anathema to me. I realise other people don't feel the same way.

We are kindred spirits VP. Smile



1-0-1-0-4-25-40-65-181-289=606

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cope1
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Apr 22, 2009, 12:20 AM

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Post #94 of 97 (5528 views)
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In Reply To

In Reply To

4. I understand what you're saying although it's not something I've ever felt myself. Identity is an individual thing. My personal view is that I don't belong to any county, area, country or trading block but it's a fact that I'm from Surrey, English, British and European. I'm neither proud nor ashamed to be any of those.
Being an old punk with anarchist tendancies the very notion of belonging to someone or something is anathema to me. I realise other people don't feel the same way.

We are kindred spirits VP. Smile


Seconded! Group hug?


VP
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Apr 22, 2009, 12:31 AM

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In Reply To
Seconded! Group hug?


Nah! You two are from Essex and the Hertfordshire / Greater London border area. It wouldn't work out. Tongue


KnowYourMarket
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Apr 22, 2009, 1:22 AM

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Post #96 of 97 (5511 views)
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Re: [Mr. T] Applicants for promotion to Step 4 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

An insistence that only certain information is required for a process implies that omission of that information is unacceptable and the process cannot (or at least might not) be completed

As there is no information omitted on your preferred method of addressing letters then that implication does not apply. If you wish to add county that is your prerogrative but it is not necessary. There is no such thing as a postal county just administrative counties which we have either been taught to inlcude or have a strong identity with them. According to the Royal Mail I live in Stoke-on-Trent which as you will probably know is a collection of 5 historical towns. The town I live in does not exist according to the Royal Mail but many people like to include it in their address.

I was merely stating a fact and not being antagonistic for which you obviously felt I was.

Royal Mail's service is very good contrary to the media's viewpoint at times. In fact, the global mail service is excellent. We ship thousands of packages per month throughout the world and I can count on one hand the amount of problems we have in any given month.



Last ground visited(update requested by Spud): Wellington . New grounds 18/19: 38

(This post was edited by modelhobbies on Apr 22, 2009, 1:23 AM)


vienna1964
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Apr 22, 2009, 1:54 AM

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Post #97 of 97 (5500 views)
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Re: [modelhobbies] Applicants for promotion to Step 4 [In reply to] Can't Post or

Allow me to categorically state the Royal Mail position upon the minimal information requirement for successful delivery...


As long as the posted item contains the house/building number/name (plus subsection identification where applicable) plus the whole postcode, the Royal Mail will guarantee delivery.

Further address information is purely voluntary, although obviously is helpful in the event that the 'official minimum information' has not been entered - in which case the Royal Mail undertakes to do its best to deliver, without guarantee !


This is not-quite-verbatim out of the mouth of an ex-PO Manager.



I APOLOGISE UNRESERVEDLY TO EACH AND EVERY PERSON ON THIS FORUM WHO HAS FELT LET-DOWN BY MY INIMICABLE AND DEPLORABLE BEHAVIOUR OF OCTOBER 28th. 2009. ESPECIALLY TO BRIAN, WHO IS A MARVELLOUS GENTLEMAN AND IS THE LAST PERSON HERE WHO SHOULD HAVE TO PUT UP WITH SUCH UNDESERVED PERSONAL CHARACTER-ASSASSINATION. LET IT BE KNOWN THAT A PRIVATE PERSONAL APOLOGY WAS SENT, BUT WAS SEEN INSUFFICIENT. FAIR ENOUGH.

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