Home: Non-League Football Discussion: Restructuring Discussion:
Non League Projections 2019/20



wazzafan
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Oct 15, 2018, 4:44 AM

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Non League Projections 2019/20 or Reply Privately

Okay... Here it is. Please no more PM's! Laugh

A couple of notes, I'm still in the process of doing the maps, so some placements may be a bit off. I hope to have them done in the week.

I'm also not gonna be keeping up to date with the Step 6 promotion race the first few weeks due to the amount of changes they'll be. I know it's wrong at present, as I've been selective on Step 6 and Step 7 promotions.

In honest truth don't have the amount of free time as I've had in previous years to do this so you'll have to be patient with me!

http://goo.gl/5UvkvE



Non League Projections - 2018/19: http://goo.gl/5UvkvE

Step 1: http://goo.gl/9QipfY
Step 2: http://goo.gl/VoE1oY
Step 3: http://goo.gl/Ru3jUk
Step 4: http://goo.gl/QHVmDA
Step 5: http://goo.gl/VrnrYg
Step 6: http://goo.gl/Mk86of


ladderman
Man City Transfer Target!

Oct 15, 2018, 6:25 AM

Posts: 7270
Location: Bishop's Stortford
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Re: [wazzafan] Non League Projections 2019/20 or Reply Privately

Well that's cheered me up! Cambridge United back in non league football and Stortford in the Southern Central.
Why have Worthing declined promotion?


windydcfc
Man City Transfer Target!


Oct 15, 2018, 7:38 AM

Posts: 10064
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Team(s): Derby County FC England Borussia Mönchengladbach


Views: 248198
Re: [wazzafan] Non League Projections 2019/20 or Reply Privately

With compulsory promotion in place between steps 1-6, no teams can decline promotion(*apart from the SWPL)
Here’s a few step 7 clubs that are either contemplating applying or are definitely applying for promotion:
Caister (ACL)
Egerton (CFL)
Pilkington (CFL)
Wolviston (WL)
Sunderland West End (WL)
Hebburn Town Res (WL) *dependent on 1st team being promoted
Southwell City (NSL)
Stapleford Town (NSL)
Newcastle Uni (NA)
AFC Killingworth (NA)
Stockport Georgians (ML)
Rochdale Sacred Heart (ML)
Brigg Town CIC (LL)
Lincoln Moorlands Railway (LL)
Thurnby Rangers (LSL)
Rugby Borough (LSL)
Saffron Dynamo (LSL)
Peckham Town (KCL)
Clay Cross Town (CMLN)
Retford (CMLN)
Collingham (CMLN)
Retford United (CMLN)
Pinxton (CMLS)
Hucknall Town (CMLS)
Eaton Socon (CCL)
Foley Meir (SCSL)


(This post was edited by windydcfc on Oct 15, 2018, 8:25 AM)


Atavistic
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Oct 15, 2018, 8:12 AM

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Re: [wazzafan] Non League Projections 2019/20 or Reply Privately

Out of curiosity, why transfer Evesham United back to Southern League Division 1 Central instead of promoting Wantage Town into it? With the likes of Thame United and Didcot Town in that league, Wantage Town seem to fit in more than Evesham do, especially as Evesham specifically requested to transfer into Division 1 South in the summer.

Also, Jersey Bulls have applied to join the Combined Counties League next season (in the same vein as how Guernsey did it a few years ago), so it's perhaps worth bringing them into consideration as an applicant for a place in its Division 1.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/45599322



Yaxley FC Programme Editor

2018/19 (including Pre-Season):

New Grounds: 33 (Most Recent: Corby Town)
Games: 49
Goals: 180
Goals Per Game (to 2 dp): 3.67
0-0s: 2

My Blog: https://thetortoisetravels.blogspot.co.uk/

(This post was edited by Atavistic on Oct 15, 2018, 8:14 AM)


jrev61
Man City Transfer Target!

Oct 15, 2018, 9:36 AM

Posts: 7886
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Re: [windydcfc] Non League Projections 2019/20 or Reply Privately

It would be hard for Rugby Borough to be promoted. They play in a 3G cage, with only one side for spectators. There is a tiny amount of cover and no seats. Maybe they would have to groundshare with Rugby Town.



jrev61


Sarumio
Man City Transfer Target!

Oct 15, 2018, 9:59 AM

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Team(s): Salisbury


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Re: [windydcfc] Non League Projections 2019/20 or Reply Privately

Surely Staffiotd Town will apply?

Anyway nevermind flooding Step 6 with more clubs from the Midlands, there's an almost entire lack of clubs on your list Windy from the South....

The divisions in the SOUTH is after all where ALL the Steo 6 vacancies currently lie.

Stockbridge? Swanage Town & Herston? Stonehouse Town? Gillingham Town? Kintbury Rangers? Shrewton United?


(This post was edited by Sarumio on Oct 15, 2018, 10:36 AM)


windydcfc
Man City Transfer Target!


Oct 15, 2018, 10:05 AM

Posts: 10064
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Team(s): Derby County FC England Borussia Mönchengladbach


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Re: [Sarumio] Non League Projections 2019/20 or Reply Privately


In Reply To
Surely Staffiotd Town will apply?

Anyway nevermind flooding Step 6 with more clubs from the Midlands, there's an almost entire lack of clubs on your list Windy from the South....

The divisions in the SOTH is after all where ALL the Steo 6 vacancies currently lie.

Stockbridge? Swanage Town & Herston? Stonehouse Town? Gillingham Town? Kintbury Rangers? Shrewton United?



Those clubs that you have mentioned, may well apply for promotion. I’ve only posted the one’s that I’m aware of.
Stockbridge will apply
Gillingham Town won’t apply
Kintbury Rangers haven’t made a decision yet, but have ambitions to return to the Hellenic League
Stafford Town will apply
Infinity will also be applying


(This post was edited by windydcfc on Oct 15, 2018, 3:22 PM)


windydcfc
Man City Transfer Target!


Oct 15, 2018, 4:30 PM

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Re: [Sarumio] Non League Projections 2019/20 or Reply Privately

The ECL in conjunction with the FA, will make a decision in the next few months. Whether to allow teams to apply that haven’t completely got the ground grading(as per last season), but those teams will have a season less than the 3 years grace offered to the teams last season. This will be dependent on how many other teams apply that pass the ground grading & how many teams are relegated etc & to get the league’s up to full capacity. So, the ECL1N & ECL1S might be on a separate set of rules again this season!


Wijit99
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Oct 15, 2018, 6:22 PM

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Re: [ladderman] Non League Projections 2019/20 or Reply Privately


In Reply To
Well that's cheered me up! Cambridge United back in non league football and Stortford in the Southern Central.
Why have Worthing declined promotion?


As a guess, Worthing and Gainsborough shown as declined promotion to show they would be the losers of the champions play-offs. (due to this season the winners of each play-offs having to win an inter league play-off)


windydcfc
Man City Transfer Target!


Oct 15, 2018, 7:13 PM

Posts: 10064
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Views: 247552
Re: [windydcfc] Non League Projections 2019/20 or Reply Privately


In Reply To

In Reply To
Surely Staffiotd Town will apply?

Anyway nevermind flooding Step 6 with more clubs from the Midlands, there's an almost entire lack of clubs on your list Windy from the South....

The divisions in the SOTH is after all where ALL the Steo 6 vacancies currently lie.

Stockbridge? Swanage Town & Herston? Stonehouse Town? Gillingham Town? Kintbury Rangers? Shrewton United?



Those clubs that you have mentioned, may well apply for promotion. I’ve only posted the one’s that I’m aware of.
Stockbridge will apply
Gillingham Town won’t apply
Kintbury Rangers haven’t made a decision yet, but have ambitions to return to the Hellenic League
Stafford Town will apply
Infinity will also be applying
Shrewton are keen to apply, but need a concrete base laid so they can erect the stand they’ve bought. So it’ll be a matter of when this is done.
Swanage Town & Herston won’t be applying this season(lost a lot of players)


(This post was edited by windydcfc on Oct 15, 2018, 8:13 PM)


davec
Junior Team Sub

Oct 15, 2018, 10:55 PM

Posts: 22
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Re: [wazzafan] Non League Projections 2019/20 or Reply Privately

Love it! Great to see the projections again even though it's a bit early in the season to take it too seriously. Thanks for all your work in getting it done.


borninchesham
Youth Team Star

Oct 16, 2018, 10:01 AM

Posts: 273
Location: Ipswich
Team(s): Queens Park Rangers & Chesham United


Views: 247127
Re: [wazzafan] Non League Projections 2019/20 or Reply Privately

When you see the difference in the travelling cost for next season, I can understand why the Chesham board appear to be aiming for relegation!
Tooting being the furthest away (at least timeways) whereas this season it would be one of the nearest!


philglossop
Youth Team Star

Oct 16, 2018, 10:23 AM

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Re: [borninchesham] Non League Projections 2019/20 or Reply Privately

Can’t see the point of having Callington/Launceston in the new East Division of SWPL when it’s more logical for Torpoint and Millbrook?


exile
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Oct 16, 2018, 10:30 AM

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Re: [wazzafan] Non League Projections 2019/20 or Reply Privately

Bridlington Town in the Northern League!! Having said that not sure what the alternative would be - Garforth possibly as they are next to the motorway.

And that is showing no relegations from the 18 team Northern League Division One (the commensense way...).

God job there are still six months to go (and if Knaresborough lose next week they will be out of the promotion places and into the Northern League)

Long term though there are going to have to be extra promotions from NL2. Unless somebody knows better


ThornburyTom
Junior Team Regular

Oct 16, 2018, 1:06 PM

Posts: 36
Location: Barking, London
Team(s): Thornbury Town, Bristol City


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Re: [exile] Non League Projections 2019/20 or Reply Privately

I'd expect Lebeq United to apply from the Glos County League. Would they be eligible as they technically groundshare with Roman Glass and Real Thornbury? Currently they play their home games at 1pm.


windydcfc
Man City Transfer Target!


Oct 16, 2018, 1:30 PM

Posts: 10064
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Team(s): Derby County FC England Borussia Mönchengladbach


Views: 246921
Re: [exile] Non League Projections 2019/20 or Reply Privately


In Reply To
Bridlington Town in the Northern League!! Having said that not sure what the alternative would be - Garforth possibly as they are next to the motorway.

And that is showing no relegations from the 18 team Northern League Division One (the commensense way...).

God job there are still six months to go (and if Knaresborough lose next week they will be out of the promotion places and into the Northern League)

Long term though there are going to have to be extra promotions from NL2. Unless somebody knows better



I can’t see the FA moving Bridlington to the NL. It’s 1 hour 40 minutes drive from Northallerton to Bridlington. Northallerton are the most southerly NL side. Whereas Northallerton to Garforth is 50 minutes.
As for the NL1 relegation places. I’d put a wager on the bottom club being relegated & who knows what’ll happen to the second bottom placed side.
If Knaresborough are promoted, Harrogate RA are relegated & Carlisle City aren’t promoted. The FA are going to have to look around the Leeds area for a few clubs & I’m sure no one wants that scenario!


(This post was edited by windydcfc on Oct 16, 2018, 1:34 PM)


Rebel Yeller
Reserve Team Sub

Oct 16, 2018, 2:41 PM

Posts: 386
Location: Staines
Team(s): Hopper


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Re: [windydcfc] Non League Projections 2019/20 or Reply Privately

Down my neck of the woods the Middlesex League currently has a top 3 of St. Panteleimon, Pitshanger Dynamo and PFC Victoria, all groundsharing at Step 5 and above clubs.
In the Surrey Elite Westside are top who share at AFC Croydon Athletic at Step 5.
So I'm guessing that all of these have promotion to Step 6 as an aim for the not too distant future.


windydcfc
Man City Transfer Target!


Oct 16, 2018, 4:25 PM

Posts: 10064
Location: Barnetby
Team(s): Derby County FC England Borussia Mönchengladbach


Views: 246759
Re: [Rebel Yeller] Non League Projections 2019/20 or Reply Privately


In Reply To
Down my neck of the woods the Middlesex League currently has a top 3 of St. Panteleimon, Pitshanger Dynamo and PFC Victoria, all groundsharing at Step 5 and above clubs.
In the Surrey Elite Westside are top who share at AFC Croydon Athletic at Step 5.
So I'm guessing that all of these have promotion to Step 6 as an aim for the not too distant future.



PFC Vics are applying & they expect the other two to apply


alderman friend
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Oct 16, 2018, 7:47 PM

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Re: [windydcfc] Non League Projections 2019/20 or Reply Privately


In Reply To
[
If Knaresborough are promoted, Harrogate RA are relegated & Carlisle City aren’t promoted. The FA are going to have to look around the Leeds area for a few clubs & I’m sure no one wants that scenario!

so depending on certain promotion and relegations we could have
5 teams being moved from north east counties to northern league. so the teams around Bradford could come into the mix.


Atavistic
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Oct 16, 2018, 8:46 PM

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Re: [alderman friend] Non League Projections 2019/20 or Reply Privately

Thamesmead Town have announced that they are set to fold (see:
https://www.thamesmeadtownfootballclub.com/...ad-day-for-the-mead/), so would I be right in assuming that the vacancy they create will see the Step 5 runner-up with the best PPG promoted to fill in the gap, rather than a side in Thamesmead's league being reprieved?



Yaxley FC Programme Editor

2018/19 (including Pre-Season):

New Grounds: 33 (Most Recent: Corby Town)
Games: 49
Goals: 180
Goals Per Game (to 2 dp): 3.67
0-0s: 2

My Blog: https://thetortoisetravels.blogspot.co.uk/


windydcfc
Man City Transfer Target!


Oct 16, 2018, 9:02 PM

Posts: 10064
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Team(s): Derby County FC England Borussia Mönchengladbach


Views: 246517
Re: [Atavistic] Non League Projections 2019/20 or Reply Privately


In Reply To
Thamesmead Town have announced that they are set to fold (see:
https://www.thamesmeadtownfootballclub.com/...ad-day-for-the-mead/), so would I be right in assuming that the vacancy they create will see the Step 5 runner-up with the best PPG promoted to fill in the gap, rather than a side in Thamesmead's league being reprieved?



Yep, the next best step 6 runner up will be promoted. The standardised rules state that all the step 6 runners up will be promoted, before any clubs are reprieved & those reprieves will be on a PPG basis across step 5.


Unicorn
Chelsea Transfer Target

Oct 16, 2018, 9:49 PM

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Views: 246475
Re: [windydcfc] Non League Projections 2019/20 or Reply Privately


In Reply To

In Reply To
Thamesmead Town have announced that they are set to fold (see:
https://www.thamesmeadtownfootballclub.com/...ad-day-for-the-mead/), so would I be right in assuming that the vacancy they create will see the Step 5 runner-up with the best PPG promoted to fill in the gap, rather than a side in Thamesmead's league being reprieved?



Yep, the next best step 6 runner up will be promoted. The standardised rules state that all the step 6 runners up will be promoted, before any clubs are reprieved & those reprieves will be on a PPG basis across step 5.


Thamesmead were step 4.


(This post was edited by Unicorn on Oct 16, 2018, 9:50 PM)


petermiller36
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Oct 17, 2018, 12:31 AM

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Team(s): Ware & AFC Wimbledon


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Re: [Unicorn] Non League Projections 2019/20 or Reply Privately


In Reply To

In Reply To

In Reply To
Thamesmead Town have announced that they are set to fold (see:
https://www.thamesmeadtownfootballclub.com/...ad-day-for-the-mead/), so would I be right in assuming that the vacancy they create will see the Step 5 runner-up with the best PPG promoted to fill in the gap, rather than a side in Thamesmead's league being reprieved?



Yep, the next best step 6 runner up will be promoted. The standardised rules state that all the step 6 runners up will be promoted, before any clubs are reprieved & those reprieves will be on a PPG basis across step 5.


Thamesmead were step 4.


Step 1 relegation: Reprieves available.
Step 2 relegation: No reprieves - extra side from losing "super playoff"
Step 3 relegation: No reprieves due to crazy playoffs at Step 4.
Step 4 relegation: Reprieves available. Only champions at Step 5 come up.
Step 5 relegation: No reprieves. Extra runners up at Step 6 promoted.
Step 6 relegation: Reprieves available.

NB Step 5 and below is down to the discretion of the Leagues Committee.

Thamesmead are indeed Step 4 and should the inevitable happen then they'll effectively be placed 20th, with 19th then being the only other relegation space. That side in 19th will be eligible for a reprieve should there be one and should they top the PPG list.

I think.



Steps 4-7 Relegation and Promotion document:
http://bit.ly/PPG1819


windydcfc
Man City Transfer Target!


Oct 17, 2018, 8:39 AM

Posts: 10064
Location: Barnetby
Team(s): Derby County FC England Borussia Mönchengladbach


Views: 246179
Re: [petermiller36] Non League Projections 2019/20 or Reply Privately


In Reply To

In Reply To

In Reply To

In Reply To
Thamesmead Town have announced that they are set to fold (see:
https://www.thamesmeadtownfootballclub.com/...ad-day-for-the-mead/), so would I be right in assuming that the vacancy they create will see the Step 5 runner-up with the best PPG promoted to fill in the gap, rather than a side in Thamesmead's league being reprieved?



Yep, the next best step 6 runner up will be promoted. The standardised rules state that all the step 6 runners up will be promoted, before any clubs are reprieved & those reprieves will be on a PPG basis across step 5.


Thamesmead were step 4.


Step 1 relegation: Reprieves available.
Step 2 relegation: No reprieves - extra side from losing "super playoff"
Step 3 relegation: No reprieves due to crazy playoffs at Step 4.
Step 4 relegation: Reprieves available. Only champions at Step 5 come up.
Step 5 relegation: No reprieves. Extra runners up at Step 6 promoted.
Step 6 relegation: Reprieves available.

NB Step 5 and below is down to the discretion of the Leagues Committee.

Thamesmead are indeed Step 4 and should the inevitable happen then they'll effectively be placed 20th, with 19th then being the only other relegation space. That side in 19th will be eligible for a reprieve should there be one and should they top the PPG list.

I think.



The question was ‘will this create a reprieve at step 5’? The simple answer is no. The extra space created by Thamesmead folding, will be handed to the next best step 6 runner up on a PPG basis. The only question that none of us know, is what will the FALC do with the relegations for the NL1 & HL Prem! The answer I was given by the FA, is it’s at the LC discretion. There’s nothing in the rules that say anything about clubs folding any time in the season are nominally placed in the relegation zones. The standardised rules state that the bottom 2 clubs will be relegated from step 5 & any extra places will be filled by the next best step 6 runners up.


windydcfc
Man City Transfer Target!


Oct 17, 2018, 8:41 AM

Posts: 10064
Location: Barnetby
Team(s): Derby County FC England Borussia Mönchengladbach


Views: 246173
Re: [windydcfc] Non League Projections 2019/20 or Reply Privately


In Reply To

In Reply To
Down my neck of the woods the Middlesex League currently has a top 3 of St. Panteleimon, Pitshanger Dynamo and PFC Victoria, all groundsharing at Step 5 and above clubs.
In the Surrey Elite Westside are top who share at AFC Croydon Athletic at Step 5.
So I'm guessing that all of these have promotion to Step 6 as an aim for the not too distant future.



PFC Vics are applying & they expect the other two to apply

St Panteleimon will be applying


petermiller36
First Team Sub

Oct 17, 2018, 9:30 AM

Posts: 1089
Location: Nottingham
Team(s): Ware & AFC Wimbledon


Views: 19868
Re: [windydcfc] Non League Projections 2019/20 or Reply Privately


In Reply To

In Reply To

In Reply To

In Reply To

In Reply To
Thamesmead Town have announced that they are set to fold (see:
https://www.thamesmeadtownfootballclub.com/...ad-day-for-the-mead/), so would I be right in assuming that the vacancy they create will see the Step 5 runner-up with the best PPG promoted to fill in the gap, rather than a side in Thamesmead's league being reprieved?



Yep, the next best step 6 runner up will be promoted. The standardised rules state that all the step 6 runners up will be promoted, before any clubs are reprieved & those reprieves will be on a PPG basis across step 5.


Thamesmead were step 4.


Step 1 relegation: Reprieves available.
Step 2 relegation: No reprieves - extra side from losing "super playoff"
Step 3 relegation: No reprieves due to crazy playoffs at Step 4.
Step 4 relegation: Reprieves available. Only champions at Step 5 come up.
Step 5 relegation: No reprieves. Extra runners up at Step 6 promoted.
Step 6 relegation: Reprieves available.

NB Step 5 and below is down to the discretion of the Leagues Committee.

Thamesmead are indeed Step 4 and should the inevitable happen then they'll effectively be placed 20th, with 19th then being the only other relegation space. That side in 19th will be eligible for a reprieve should there be one and should they top the PPG list.

I think.



The question was ‘will this create a reprieve at step 5’? The simple answer is no. The extra space created by Thamesmead folding, will be handed to the next best step 6 runner up on a PPG basis. The only question that none of us know, is what will the FALC do with the relegations for the NL1 & HL Prem! The answer I was given by the FA, is it’s at the LC discretion. There’s nothing in the rules that say anything about clubs folding any time in the season are nominally placed in the relegation zones. The standardised rules state that the bottom 2 clubs will be relegated from step 5 & any extra places will be filled by the next best step 6 runners up.


No that wasn't the question. The original question I have highlighted.

And there is wording in the rules regarding this situation:
"Prior to the end of a Playing Season
5.5.3 (a) In cases where the vacancy is created prior to the end of the Playing Season, the vacancy will be filled by the best ranked Club in a relegation position at the end of the Regular Season, eligible of being reprieved in that same division."
So that is exactly as I described. Thamesmead will invisibly be placed 20th, thus boosting everyone up meaning only the side in 19th (bottom) will go down.



Steps 4-7 Relegation and Promotion document:
http://bit.ly/PPG1819


Atavistic
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Oct 17, 2018, 9:39 AM

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Re: [petermiller36] Non League Projections 2019/20 or Reply Privately

I'm going to have to admit to being a little bit confused about this now then, as I thought that the rules changed last season so that no reprieves would occur from now on. I was under the impression that this rule would be a permanent change, but was it only in place last season because of the expansion at Steps 3 and 4?



Yaxley FC Programme Editor

2018/19 (including Pre-Season):

New Grounds: 33 (Most Recent: Corby Town)
Games: 49
Goals: 180
Goals Per Game (to 2 dp): 3.67
0-0s: 2

My Blog: https://thetortoisetravels.blogspot.co.uk/


windydcfc
Man City Transfer Target!


Oct 17, 2018, 10:00 AM

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Team(s): Derby County FC England Borussia Mönchengladbach


Views: 19835
Re: [petermiller36] Non League Projections 2019/20 or Reply Privately


In Reply To

In Reply To

In Reply To

In Reply To

In Reply To

In Reply To
Thamesmead Town have announced that they are set to fold (see:
https://www.thamesmeadtownfootballclub.com/...ad-day-for-the-mead/), so would I be right in assuming that the vacancy they create will see the Step 5 runner-up with the best PPG promoted to fill in the gap, rather than a side in Thamesmead's league being reprieved?



Yep, the next best step 6 runner up will be promoted. The standardised rules state that all the step 6 runners up will be promoted, before any clubs are reprieved & those reprieves will be on a PPG basis across step 5.


Thamesmead were step 4.


Step 1 relegation: Reprieves available.
Step 2 relegation: No reprieves - extra side from losing "super playoff"
Step 3 relegation: No reprieves due to crazy playoffs at Step 4.
Step 4 relegation: Reprieves available. Only champions at Step 5 come up.
Step 5 relegation: No reprieves. Extra runners up at Step 6 promoted.
Step 6 relegation: Reprieves available.

NB Step 5 and below is down to the discretion of the Leagues Committee.

Thamesmead are indeed Step 4 and should the inevitable happen then they'll effectively be placed 20th, with 19th then being the only other relegation space. That side in 19th will be eligible for a reprieve should there be one and should they top the PPG list.

I think.



The question was ‘will this create a reprieve at step 5’? The simple answer is no. The extra space created by Thamesmead folding, will be handed to the next best step 6 runner up on a PPG basis. The only question that none of us know, is what will the FALC do with the relegations for the NL1 & HL Prem! The answer I was given by the FA, is it’s at the LC discretion. There’s nothing in the rules that say anything about clubs folding any time in the season are nominally placed in the relegation zones. The standardised rules state that the bottom 2 clubs will be relegated from step 5 & any extra places will be filled by the next best step 6 runners up.


No that wasn't the question. The original question I have highlighted.

And there is wording in the rules regarding this situation:
"Prior to the end of a Playing Season
5.5.3 (a) In cases where the vacancy is created prior to the end of the Playing Season, the vacancy will be filled by the best ranked Club in a relegation position at the end of the Regular Season, eligible of being reprieved in that same division."
So that is exactly as I described. Thamesmead will invisibly be placed 20th, thus boosting everyone up meaning only the side in 19th (bottom) will go down.



I don’t dispute what will happen at step 4. My point was how will this effect step 5 & then step 6. Because Thamesmead folding will create a space. There won’t be a knock on reprieve at step 5.


Sarumio
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Oct 17, 2018, 10:00 AM

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Re: [windydcfc] Non League Projections 2019/20 or Reply Privately


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Down my neck of the woods the Middlesex League currently has a top 3 of St. Panteleimon, Pitshanger Dynamo and PFC Victoria, all groundsharing at Step 5 and above clubs.
In the Surrey Elite Westside are top who share at AFC Croydon Athletic at Step 5.
So I'm guessing that all of these have promotion to Step 6 as an aim for the not too distant future.



PFC Vics are applying & they expect the other two to apply

St Panteleimon will be applying


Why? Why are this team applying? Why are PFC Victoria applyimg? Do eithetr team have any form of support? Any history? (both clubs have just appeared in the Middlesex County Legaue in the last 3 years).

They are both groundsharing - do either have any ounce of a hope of ever laying down their own foundations and building their own ground? do either of them actually want to do this? Or are they only interested in getting their current squad of players into the highestb division possible, playing in another CLUB's ground. These sorts of clubs are fine for the somewhat....unstable...Middlesex County League and its track record of come and go, sketchy teams, but personally I think a line needs to be drawn for these teams (not clubs) joining the more presigious Step 6.

It makes me so sad that clubs with their own ground, longevity, stablility, community clubs get demoted to Step 6 (Stafford, Oakham, Bolehall etc, even the Hellenic lcubs wihtout lights) whilst allowing nonsense clubs like the above two up with absolutely none of what the teams they are replacing have! Just a squad of players inhabiting a higher club's ground.


windydcfc
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Oct 17, 2018, 11:45 AM

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Re: [Sarumio] Non League Projections 2019/20 or Reply Privately


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Down my neck of the woods the Middlesex League currently has a top 3 of St. Panteleimon, Pitshanger Dynamo and PFC Victoria, all groundsharing at Step 5 and above clubs.
In the Surrey Elite Westside are top who share at AFC Croydon Athletic at Step 5.
So I'm guessing that all of these have promotion to Step 6 as an aim for the not too distant future.



PFC Vics are applying & they expect the other two to apply

St Panteleimon will be applying


Why? Why are this team applying? Why are PFC Victoria applyimg? Do eithetr team have any form of support? Any history? (both clubs have just appeared in the Middlesex County Legaue in the last 3 years).

They are both groundsharing - do either have any ounce of a hope of ever laying down their own foundations and building their own ground? do either of them actually want to do this? Or are they only interested in getting their current squad of players into the highestb division possible, playing in another CLUB's ground. These sorts of clubs are fine for the somewhat....unstable...Middlesex County League and its track record of come and go, sketchy teams, but personally I think a line needs to be drawn for these teams (not clubs) joining the more presigious Step 6.

It makes me so sad that clubs with their own ground, longevity, stablility, community clubs get demoted to Step 6 (Stafford, Oakham, Bolehall etc, even the Hellenic lcubs wihtout lights) whilst allowing nonsense clubs like the above two up with absolutely none of what the teams they are replacing have! Just a squad of players inhabiting a higher club's ground.



The clubs you mentioned weren’t replaced by sketchy clubs. They were from strong leagues, that have no problems filling their leagues. Unfortunately this doesn’t happen across the country & the FA doesn’t want a two tier structure. Which is the reason the Hellenic clubs were demoted.


Sarumio
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Oct 17, 2018, 12:40 PM

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Re: [windydcfc] Non League Projections 2019/20 or Reply Privately


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Down my neck of the woods the Middlesex League currently has a top 3 of St. Panteleimon, Pitshanger Dynamo and PFC Victoria, all groundsharing at Step 5 and above clubs.
In the Surrey Elite Westside are top who share at AFC Croydon Athletic at Step 5.
So I'm guessing that all of these have promotion to Step 6 as an aim for the not too distant future.



PFC Vics are applying & they expect the other two to apply

St Panteleimon will be applying


Why? Why are this team applying? Why are PFC Victoria applyimg? Do eithetr team have any form of support? Any history? (both clubs have just appeared in the Middlesex County Legaue in the last 3 years).

They are both groundsharing - do either have any ounce of a hope of ever laying down their own foundations and building their own ground? do either of them actually want to do this? Or are they only interested in getting their current squad of players into the highestb division possible, playing in another CLUB's ground. These sorts of clubs are fine for the somewhat....unstable...Middlesex County League and its track record of come and go, sketchy teams, but personally I think a line needs to be drawn for these teams (not clubs) joining the more presigious Step 6.

It makes me so sad that clubs with their own ground, longevity, stablility, community clubs get demoted to Step 6 (Stafford, Oakham, Bolehall etc, even the Hellenic lcubs wihtout lights) whilst allowing nonsense clubs like the above two up with absolutely none of what the teams they are replacing have! Just a squad of players inhabiting a higher club's ground.



The clubs you mentioned weren’t replaced by sketchy clubs. They were from strong leagues, that have no problems filling their leagues. Unfortunately this doesn’t happen across the country & the FA doesn’t want a two tier structure. Which is the reason the Hellenic clubs were demoted.


Oh come on - Stafford Town were replaced by a skethcy club (Smithswood Firs), a team with little history, no support, and groundsharing miles away from their original base. This club then subsequently folded before the season started, leaving Stafford relegated in vain!

And yes the others were all relegated and replaced by "sketchy" clubs. Oakham and Bolehall may not have been directly replaced by the likes of Lopes Tavares and Fire United, but any number of lateral transfers and shifting around could have saved them from the chop! And so they were, in my opinion, replaced by riff raff sketchy clubs!

And now we have more of them applying. And they look even more sketchy than last years candidates!


windydcfc
Man City Transfer Target!


Oct 17, 2018, 3:14 PM

Posts: 10064
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Re: [Sarumio] Non League Projections 2019/20 or Reply Privately


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Down my neck of the woods the Middlesex League currently has a top 3 of St. Panteleimon, Pitshanger Dynamo and PFC Victoria, all groundsharing at Step 5 and above clubs.
In the Surrey Elite Westside are top who share at AFC Croydon Athletic at Step 5.
So I'm guessing that all of these have promotion to Step 6 as an aim for the not too distant future.



PFC Vics are applying & they expect the other two to apply

St Panteleimon will be applying


Why? Why are this team applying? Why are PFC Victoria applyimg? Do eithetr team have any form of support? Any history? (both clubs have just appeared in the Middlesex County Legaue in the last 3 years).

They are both groundsharing - do either have any ounce of a hope of ever laying down their own foundations and building their own ground? do either of them actually want to do this? Or are they only interested in getting their current squad of players into the highestb division possible, playing in another CLUB's ground. These sorts of clubs are fine for the somewhat....unstable...Middlesex County League and its track record of come and go, sketchy teams, but personally I think a line needs to be drawn for these teams (not clubs) joining the more presigious Step 6.

It makes me so sad that clubs with their own ground, longevity, stablility, community clubs get demoted to Step 6 (Stafford, Oakham, Bolehall etc, even the Hellenic lcubs wihtout lights) whilst allowing nonsense clubs like the above two up with absolutely none of what the teams they are replacing have! Just a squad of players inhabiting a higher club's ground.



The clubs you mentioned weren’t replaced by sketchy clubs. They were from strong leagues, that have no problems filling their leagues. Unfortunately this doesn’t happen across the country & the FA doesn’t want a two tier structure. Which is the reason the Hellenic clubs were demoted.


Oh come on - Stafford Town were replaced by a skethcy club (Smithswood Firs), a team with little history, no support, and groundsharing miles away from their original base. This club then subsequently folded before the season started, leaving Stafford relegated in vain!

And yes the others were all relegated and replaced by "sketchy" clubs. Oakham and Bolehall may not have been directly replaced by the likes of Lopes Tavares and Fire United, but any number of lateral transfers and shifting around could have saved them from the chop! And so they were, in my opinion, replaced by riff raff sketchy clubs!

And now we have more of them applying. And they look even more sketchy than last years candidates!



I can’t see why the FA relegated any clubs last season, when there were spaces at step 7.


Rebel Yeller
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Oct 17, 2018, 3:29 PM

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Re: [windydcfc] Non League Projections 2019/20 or Reply Privately

St Panteleimon represent the Greek community to the west of London. I saw a midweek game of theirs earlier this season and the attendance was 40 - not bad for Step 7 round my way.

PFC Victoria represent the Polish community to the west of London. Saw them last week at Lampton Park and the attendance was 60 and despite being the away side most of those who were there spoke Polish!

Whilst taking Sarunio's earlier point, I would suggest that these two sides see where they play as secondary to whom they represent, as long as it's within a certain geographical radius.Both seem to have good set ups.


Pitshanger Dynamo do share at Hanwell Town but moved less than a mile from their original home to do so.

Westside in the Surrey Elite I know little about.


windydcfc
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Oct 17, 2018, 10:14 PM

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Re: [Rebel Yeller] Non League Projections 2019/20 or Reply Privately


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St Panteleimon represent the Greek community to the west of London. I saw a midweek game of theirs earlier this season and the attendance was 40 - not bad for Step 7 round my way.

PFC Victoria represent the Polish community to the west of London. Saw them last week at Lampton Park and the attendance was 60 and despite being the away side most of those who were there spoke Polish!

Whilst taking Sarunio's earlier point, I would suggest that these two sides see where they play as secondary to whom they represent, as long as it's within a certain geographical radius.Both seem to have good set ups.


Pitshanger Dynamo do share at Hanwell Town but moved less than a mile from their original home to do so.

Westside in the Surrey Elite I know little about.



Westside are geared up for promotion, but won’t make a decision on whether they are applying until they’ve held their board meeting next month.


windydcfc
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Oct 18, 2018, 9:40 AM

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Re: [windydcfc] Non League Projections 2019/20 or Reply Privately

The NWCL have released a statement on the requirements for step 7 applicants & is another example of how helpful the NWCL is. http://www.hallmarksecurityleague.com/...articles.php?id=7031


windydcfc
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Oct 18, 2018, 12:56 PM

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Re: [windydcfc] Non League Projections 2019/20 or Reply Privately

Stonehouse Town are applying for promotion


BDA_85
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Oct 18, 2018, 3:39 PM

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Re: [windydcfc] Non League Projections 2019/20 or Reply Privately

Some great knowledge windydcfc, I guess you have insider info somehow?


windydcfc
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Oct 18, 2018, 4:02 PM

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Re: [BDA_85] Non League Projections 2019/20 or Reply Privately


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Some great knowledge windydcfc, I guess you have insider info somehow?



I ask the clubs directly via social media & they either tell you or they don’t.


windydcfc
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Oct 20, 2018, 9:20 AM

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Re: [wazzafan] Non League Projections 2019/20 or Reply Privately

Your new projections link has overwritten last season’s ones & all the maps have disappeared. So there’s no way of having an overlook & doing a comparison.


Sarumio
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Oct 24, 2018, 12:09 PM

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Re: [windydcfc] Non League Projections 2019/20 or Reply Privately

Looking at the clubs currently top of various Step 7 leagues anyone any idea on whether the following clubs, who on the face of it, look like they could hold their own at Step 6, although I have no idea of how their grounds shape up...

Battersea Ironsides
Buckhurst Hill
Thornton-Cleveleys
Maghull
Pocklington Town
Royton Town
Shefford Town & Campton


Jimbo
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Oct 24, 2018, 12:21 PM

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Re: [Sarumio] Non League Projections 2019/20 or Reply Privately


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Looking at the clubs currently top of various Step 7 leagues anyone any idea on whether the following clubs, who on the face of it, look like they could hold their own at Step 6, although I have no idea of how their grounds shape up...

Battersea Ironsides
Buckhurst Hill
Thornton-Cleveleys
Maghull
Pocklington Town
Royton Town
Shefford Town & Campton


Maghull are unlikely ever to recover a place in the NWCFL at their Old Hall Lane site. Zero seating, minimal cover and essentially no realistic scope for installation of lights.


windydcfc
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Oct 24, 2018, 12:21 PM

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Re: [Sarumio] Non League Projections 2019/20 or Reply Privately


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Looking at the clubs currently top of various Step 7 leagues anyone any idea on whether the following clubs, who on the face of it, look like they could hold their own at Step 6, although I have no idea of how their grounds shape up...

Battersea Ironsides
Buckhurst Hill
Thornton-Cleveleys
Maghull
Pocklington Town
Royton Town
Shefford Town & Campton



Pocklington Town are gradually developing their ground & have a long term aim of applying for promotion to step 6. This will not happen this season. Redcar Town aren’t mentioned on your list & their situation is similar to Pocklington Town.


Dazzla84
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Oct 24, 2018, 12:42 PM

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Re: [windydcfc] Non League Projections 2019/20 or Reply Privately


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Thamesmead Town have announced that they are set to fold (see:
https://www.thamesmeadtownfootballclub.com/...ad-day-for-the-mead/), so would I be right in assuming that the vacancy they create will see the Step 5 runner-up with the best PPG promoted to fill in the gap, rather than a side in Thamesmead's league being reprieved?



Yep, the next best step 6 runner up will be promoted. The standardised rules state that all the step 6 runners up will be promoted, before any clubs are reprieved & those reprieves will be on a PPG basis across step 5.


Which at the moment (even though they have many games in hand) I believe would be Dunston UTS, a Northern League side



CLARET AND BLUE PIXELS: claretandbluepixels.wordpress.com


windydcfc
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Oct 24, 2018, 1:01 PM

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Re: [Dazzla84] Non League Projections 2019/20 or Reply Privately


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Thamesmead Town have announced that they are set to fold (see:
https://www.thamesmeadtownfootballclub.com/...ad-day-for-the-mead/), so would I be right in assuming that the vacancy they create will see the Step 5 runner-up with the best PPG promoted to fill in the gap, rather than a side in Thamesmead's league being reprieved?



Yep, the next best step 6 runner up will be promoted. The standardised rules state that all the step 6 runners up will be promoted, before any clubs are reprieved & those reprieves will be on a PPG basis across step 5.


Which at the moment (even though they have many games in hand) I believe would be Dunston UTS, a Northern League side



Sorry, I misread the original question. Only the 14 step 5 league winners will be promoted. So I take it that only 1 team will be relegated from Thamesmead’s league(if Thamesmead fold). Because an extra space is created at step 5, then that space will be filled by the next best step 6 runner up on a PPG basis.


(This post was edited by windydcfc on Oct 24, 2018, 1:02 PM)


windydcfc
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Oct 24, 2018, 7:04 PM

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Re: [windydcfc] Non League Projections 2019/20 or Reply Privately


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Down my neck of the woods the Middlesex League currently has a top 3 of St. Panteleimon, Pitshanger Dynamo and PFC Victoria, all groundsharing at Step 5 and above clubs.
In the Surrey Elite Westside are top who share at AFC Croydon Athletic at Step 5.
So I'm guessing that all of these have promotion to Step 6 as an aim for the not too distant future.



PFC Vics are applying & they expect the other two to apply

St Panteleimon will be applying



Foley Meir from the Staffs Senior will be applying


Yorkstar
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Oct 24, 2018, 7:44 PM

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Re: [windydcfc] Non League Projections 2019/20 or Reply Privately


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In Reply To
Looking at the clubs currently top of various Step 7 leagues anyone any idea on whether the following clubs, who on the face of it, look like they could hold their own at Step 6, although I have no idea of how their grounds shape up...

Battersea Ironsides
Buckhurst Hill
Thornton-Cleveleys
Maghull
Pocklington Town
Royton Town
Shefford Town & Campton



Pocklington Town are gradually developing their ground & have a long term aim of applying for promotion to step 6. This will not happen this season. Redcar Town aren’t mentioned on your list & their situation is similar to Pocklington Town.


Pocklington have floodlights, but no seating/stands. The pitch is in the middle of their other pitches. The changing rooms contain them for the other three pitches and no outside fencing. Unlikely bro apply for the 19/20 season


Rebel Yeller
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Oct 26, 2018, 2:10 PM

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Re: [Sarumio] Non League Projections 2019/20 or Reply Privately

Battersea Ironsides - share ground with both cricket and rugby union. No seating, no floodlights, no hardstanding. No chance of Step 6 in any conceivable timeframe unless they go and groundshare. I visited there last season and Rugby appears to be the major sport for the club so for them to put funds into a groundshare for the round ball team seems unlikely.


doktorb berske
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Oct 27, 2018, 5:55 AM

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Re: [Sarumio] Non League Projections 2019/20 or Reply Privately


In Reply To
Looking at the clubs currently top of various Step 7 leagues anyone any idea on whether the following clubs, who on the face of it, look like they could hold their own at Step 6, although I have no idea of how their grounds shape up...

Battersea Ironsides
Buckhurst Hill
Thornton-Cleveleys
Maghull
Pocklington Town
Royton Town
Shefford Town & Campton


I was not expecting to find free WiFi at Thornton-Cleveleys, that was a pleasant surprise.



I count as a groundhop whatever I feel appropriate.

Reserves? Yes, why not?
Friendlies? No problem.
Bracketed ticks? Come on in, I say.

"I tried to organise freedom,
How Scandinavian of me!"


windydcfc
Man City Transfer Target!


Oct 28, 2018, 12:35 PM

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Views: 15809
Re: [windydcfc] Non League Projections 2019/20 or Reply Privately


In Reply To

In Reply To

In Reply To

In Reply To
Down my neck of the woods the Middlesex League currently has a top 3 of St. Panteleimon, Pitshanger Dynamo and PFC Victoria, all groundsharing at Step 5 and above clubs.
In the Surrey Elite Westside are top who share at AFC Croydon Athletic at Step 5.
So I'm guessing that all of these have promotion to Step 6 as an aim for the not too distant future.



PFC Vics are applying & they expect the other two to apply

St Panteleimon will be applying



Foley Meir from the Staffs Senior will be applying



Ilkley Town from the WYL, have been planning to apply for promotion. They are having an inspection in the next couple of weeks & will decide then if they can complete the works in time.


keneastlancs
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Oct 28, 2018, 7:26 PM

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Re: [wazzafan] Non League Projections 2019/20 or Reply Privately

a few pointers ive noticed about your excellent projections table - only 9 teams are showing as promotion rejected from step 6 to 5 there should be 10.

Will Consett really be promoted to NP L1 west and not East?

Why are all the step 6 reprieves from only a number of divisions reprieving 2 and some leagues not reprieving any rather than spread between each league reprieving 1 each


there is no team in the number 2 column of Wessex division 1 and position 8 of Hellenic division 1east


(This post was edited by keneastlancs on Oct 28, 2018, 7:32 PM)


windydcfc
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Oct 28, 2018, 7:36 PM

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Re: [keneastlancs] Non League Projections 2019/20 or Reply Privately


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a few pointers ive noticed about your excellent projections table - only 9 teams are showing as promotion rejected from step 6 to 5 there should be 10.

Will Consett really be promoted to NP L1 west and not East?


I agree, I’d have thought Gresley are more likely to go West.


SpiderBee
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Oct 31, 2018, 2:11 PM

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Re: [windydcfc] Non League Projections 2019/20 or Reply Privately

Why would Farnham be refused promotion back the the Coco premier then?



The 2018/19 Colliers Wood United FC Website

wibbandune.simplesite.com/


oftenscore6
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Nov 5, 2018, 1:37 PM

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Re: [wazzafan] Non League Projections 2019/20 or Reply Privately

I doubt that the step 3 promotion playoff matches will be based on the ppg of the participants, I think it will be the Southern Premier Central PO winners versus the Northern Premier PO winners; and Isthmian Premier PO winners v Southern Premier South PO winners. So no need for Braintree to be placed in the Conference North division!

Keep up the good work



-----------------------------------------------
Last new football ground (914) RTU Stadium Rigas FS 0-0 Spartaks
With FC United: 132
On the agenda:
20/5 Dundalk v Bohemian FC
23/5 Hindley v Wigan St Cuthberts (rl)


exile
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Nov 5, 2018, 3:21 PM

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Re: [wazzafan] Non League Projections 2019/20 or Reply Privately

Hall Road Rangers (middle of Hull) in the Northern League?
Hope you are doing this to draw attention to the ridiculous situation developing?


wazzafan
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Nov 5, 2018, 6:25 PM

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Re: [exile] Non League Projections 2019/20 or Reply Privately

There's no one else at present unless I take one of the Leeds teams. Knaresborough are going up, Harrogate Railway are going down, no one relegated from step 4 and only 1 promoted from Step 6. I'll have to start looking at Silsden & Barnoldswick next!



Non League Projections - 2018/19: http://goo.gl/5UvkvE

Step 1: http://goo.gl/9QipfY
Step 2: http://goo.gl/VoE1oY
Step 3: http://goo.gl/Ru3jUk
Step 4: http://goo.gl/QHVmDA
Step 5: http://goo.gl/VrnrYg
Step 6: http://goo.gl/Mk86of


wazzafan
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Nov 5, 2018, 6:29 PM

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Re: [oftenscore6] Non League Projections 2019/20 or Reply Privately

Ahh! I never took this into account. Certainly sounds sensible. I'll edit the spreadsheet. I'm currently finalising the maps.



Non League Projections - 2018/19: http://goo.gl/5UvkvE

Step 1: http://goo.gl/9QipfY
Step 2: http://goo.gl/VoE1oY
Step 3: http://goo.gl/Ru3jUk
Step 4: http://goo.gl/QHVmDA
Step 5: http://goo.gl/VrnrYg
Step 6: http://goo.gl/Mk86of


oftenscore6
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Nov 5, 2018, 7:00 PM

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Re: [wazzafan] Non League Projections 2019/20 or Reply Privately


In Reply To
There's no one else at present unless I take one of the Leeds teams. Knaresborough are going up, Harrogate Railway are going down, no one relegated from step 4 and only 1 promoted from Step 6. I'll have to start looking at Silsden & Barnoldswick next!

It will only continuing to get worse in coming years through implementing ppg and pooling without having an even number of divisions around the country...



-----------------------------------------------
Last new football ground (914) RTU Stadium Rigas FS 0-0 Spartaks
With FC United: 132
On the agenda:
20/5 Dundalk v Bohemian FC
23/5 Hindley v Wigan St Cuthberts (rl)


ThornburyTom
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Nov 7, 2018, 1:19 PM

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Re: [wazzafan] Non League Projections 2019/20 or Reply Privately

Not sure why you've put us in the Western Prem Laugh

As much as we've had a good start in Hellenic D1W, the fixtures have been kind to us so far.

We'd happily just take a side step to Western Div 1 though!


HarryC
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Nov 10, 2018, 5:29 PM

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Re: [ThornburyTom] Non League Projections 2019/20 or Reply Privately

No more AC London in the CCL

https://twitter.com/A_C_London/status/1061305124595863553


wazzafan
First Team Sub

Nov 13, 2018, 10:01 AM

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Re: [HarryC] Non League Projections 2019/20 or Reply Privately

I finally have maps to back up my spreadsheet:

Step 1: http://goo.gl/9QipfY
Step 2: http://goo.gl/VoE1oY
Step 3: http://goo.gl/Ru3jUk
Step 4: http://goo.gl/QHVmDA
Step 5: http://goo.gl/VrnrYg
Step 6: http://goo.gl/Mk86of

If any confirmations regarding ground moves or new groundshares have been announced for next season I've probably missed them so any information would be greatly received.



Non League Projections - 2018/19: http://goo.gl/5UvkvE

Step 1: http://goo.gl/9QipfY
Step 2: http://goo.gl/VoE1oY
Step 3: http://goo.gl/Ru3jUk
Step 4: http://goo.gl/QHVmDA
Step 5: http://goo.gl/VrnrYg
Step 6: http://goo.gl/Mk86of


Sarumio
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Nov 13, 2018, 10:28 AM

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Re: [wazzafan] Non League Projections 2019/20 or Reply Privately

I did notice yetserday two things in the Step 7 promotions section

The Middlesex County League promotees were listed twice
Moreton Rangers of the Hellenic D2 Two West should be coloured differently like the Hellenic D2 teams were last year - as the divisions remain outside the official NLS and thus are not Step 7


Sarumio
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Nov 13, 2018, 12:46 PM

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Re: [wazzafan] Non League Projections 2019/20 or Reply Privately


In Reply To
I finally have maps to back up my spreadsheet:

Step 1: http://goo.gl/9QipfY
Step 2: http://goo.gl/VoE1oY
Step 3: http://goo.gl/Ru3jUk
Step 4: http://goo.gl/QHVmDA
Step 5: http://goo.gl/VrnrYg
Step 6: http://goo.gl/Mk86of

If any confirmations regarding ground moves or new groundshares have been announced for next season I've probably missed them so any information would be greatly received.


The Peninsula divisions looks ridiculous. Teams not leaving their own county at Step 6 is just a nonsense. And they'll now cover the same area as the Step 7 divisons that feed them?

Thats Cornwall effectively cut off now, out of the NLS altogether in reality and completely isolated from the rest of the country in their own little bubble - they don't even need to pretend to bother with their Devon neighbur now either.

What clever chappy came up with that idea!


oftenscore6
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Nov 13, 2018, 12:56 PM

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Re: [wazzafan] Non League Projections 2019/20 or Reply Privately

I'd swap Merthyr into South Central Premier, Bognor Regis into South Premier and leave Brightlingsea Regent in the Isthmian. South Central Premier effectively feeds Conference North with it's promotees - Merthyr meet that, Essex teams surely don't?



-----------------------------------------------
Last new football ground (914) RTU Stadium Rigas FS 0-0 Spartaks
With FC United: 132
On the agenda:
20/5 Dundalk v Bohemian FC
23/5 Hindley v Wigan St Cuthberts (rl)


wazzafan
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Nov 13, 2018, 1:25 PM

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Re: [oftenscore6] Non League Projections 2019/20 or Reply Privately

I believe you'd be right. Although I've just had a thought on the Step 4 playoffs. At present, both clubs in the NPL have the lowest PPG (which is what I'm currently basing playoff promotion on), however wouldn't one be guaranteed promotion as the playoff would be surely against each other? his would actually eliminate the current situation.



Non League Projections - 2018/19: http://goo.gl/5UvkvE

Step 1: http://goo.gl/9QipfY
Step 2: http://goo.gl/VoE1oY
Step 3: http://goo.gl/Ru3jUk
Step 4: http://goo.gl/QHVmDA
Step 5: http://goo.gl/VrnrYg
Step 6: http://goo.gl/Mk86of


Richard Rundle
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Nov 13, 2018, 4:16 PM

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Re: [Sarumio] Non League Projections 2019/20 or Reply Privately


In Reply To

Thats Cornwall effectively cut off now, out of the NLS altogether in reality and completely isolated from the rest of the country in their own little bubble - they don't even need to pretend to bother with their Devon neighbur now either.

What clever chappy came up with that idea!


Agreed in every respect. As for who came up with the idea, someone based at the FA offices at Wembley. It certainly wasn't the idea of anyone from the Peninsula League. And all to spite Bodmin Town.


oftenscore6
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Nov 13, 2018, 4:26 PM

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Re: [wazzafan] Non League Projections 2019/20 or Reply Privately


In Reply To
I believe you'd be right. Although I've just had a thought on the Step 4 playoffs. At present, both clubs in the NPL have the lowest PPG (which is what I'm currently basing playoff promotion on), however wouldn't one be guaranteed promotion as the playoff would be surely against each other? his would actually eliminate the current situation.

Unless I've missed an update, I thought the lowest 2 ppg playoff winners simply stayed down and there were no inter-division playoff games at step 4, only at step 3? But interdivision gives all playoff entrants a chance. If the lowest 4 ppg playoff winners at step 4 do have to playoff, then I would expect the matches to be based on closest geography, but I thought 2 simply stayed down.



-----------------------------------------------
Last new football ground (914) RTU Stadium Rigas FS 0-0 Spartaks
With FC United: 132
On the agenda:
20/5 Dundalk v Bohemian FC
23/5 Hindley v Wigan St Cuthberts (rl)


kivo
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Nov 13, 2018, 5:53 PM

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Re: [oftenscore6] Non League Projections 2019/20 or Reply Privately

I really don't get why the EMCL hasn't had a Step 5 division yet. There are plenty of CMFL teams that could step up and fill up the Step 6 division.

Steeton, Shelley, Silsden and Golcar could then move to the NCEL.

PS - It's Grimethorpe Sports, not Grimesthorpe - and their suffix is now LLUK, not Sports


(This post was edited by kivo on Nov 13, 2018, 5:59 PM)


kivo
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Nov 16, 2018, 10:09 PM

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Re: [kivo] Non League Projections 2019/20 or Reply Privately


In Reply To
I really don't get why the EMCL hasn't had a Step 5 division yet. There are plenty of CMFL teams that could step up and fill up the Step 6 division.

Steeton, Shelley, Silsden and Golcar could then move to the NCEL.

PS - It's Grimethorpe Sports, not Grimesthorpe - and their suffix is now LLUK, not Sports

Posted this three days ago and today been told that the EMCL and CMFL are looking at creating a three division Step 5 and 6 league.

Would imagine one Step 5 division and two at Step 6?

Not sure if they could stretch to that many clubs with lights.


windydcfc
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Nov 23, 2018, 8:18 PM

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Re: [wazzafan] Non League Projections 2019/20 or Reply Privately

Tavistock will not take up their promotion place(using the SWPL ‘get out of jail free card’).
I still strongly believe that the FA will relegate the NL1 bottom team.
Caister are having a visit from the ECL inspectors & will make a decision then on their application by December.


Sarumio
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Nov 23, 2018, 8:49 PM

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Re: [windydcfc] Non League Projections 2019/20 or Reply Privately


In Reply To
Tavistock will not take up their promotion place(using the SWPL ‘get out of jail free card’).


There should be no get out of jail free card. The South West Peninsula League is either part of the pyramid/NLS or it isn't!

THE FA have recently demonstrated that there are no more exceptions, taking a hard line with the Northern League telling them "You WILL promote to the tier above, end of".

But of course we know that the problem doesn't really lie with the South West Peninsula League. It lies solely with the tier above them, the Western Premier. A league whose footprint is both too large and in entirely the wrong position.

And drilling down, the problem in that division lies with the presence of Bristol, Gloucestershire and Wiltshire sides.

These clubs should of course play in the Hellenic League (former two) and Wessex (the latter).

As the Hellenic Prem is filled with weak sides who should really be at Step 6 but are only at Step 5 due to vacancies, and the lower two divisions lie half empty, half populated by reserve sides and desperate groundsharers, the Western bulges at maximum capacity, with barely a club from the South West in sight.

And so any Step 7 side from Gloucestershire or Bristol wanting to move up look to the Western as that's where their local buddies are, exacerbating the problem further.

And of course Glos and Bristol sides playing teams from Devon and North Dorset is a nonsense, when they should be taking on Oxfordshire and possibly Herefordshire and Worcestershire sides, leaving the Western League to shift south westerly.

The obvious solution is to move the Bristol, North Wiltshire and Gloucestershire sides to the Hellenic and Westbury/Warminster/Devizes/Sherborne to the Wessex.

But no we have this stupid nonsense of the SWPL being awarded two divisions at Step 6, basically county leagues, instead of doing the above, moving 10-12 present SWPL clubs up to the Western Premier, replacing the clubs that move over to the Hellenic/Wessex, and leaving the present SWPL league structure (one that actually works and isn't completely isolationist) in place.

And so cutting off the two peninsula counties from the rest of the country and effectively, to all intents of purposes, completely out of the National League System, is deemed the better option.

Rather perplexing!


windydcfc
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Nov 23, 2018, 9:15 PM

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Re: [Sarumio] Non League Projections 2019/20 or Reply Privately


In Reply To

In Reply To
Tavistock will not take up their promotion place(using the SWPL ‘get out of jail free card’).


There should be no get out of jail free card. The South West Peninsula League is either part of the pyramid/NLS or it isn't!

THE FA have recently demonstrated that there are no more exceptions, taking a hard line with the Northern League telling them "You WILL promote to the tier above, end of".

But of course we know that the problem doesn't really lie with the South West Peninsula League. It lies solely with the tier above them, the Western Premier. A league whose footprint is both too large and in entirely the wrong position.

And drilling down, the problem in that division lies with the presence of Bristol, Gloucestershire and Wiltshire sides.

These clubs should of course play in the Hellenic League (former two) and Wessex (the latter).

As the Hellenic Prem is filled with weak sides who should really be at Step 6 but are only at Step 5 due to vacancies, and the lower two divisions lie half empty, half populated by reserve sides and desperate groundsharers, the Western bulges at maximum capacity, with barely a club from the South West in sight.

And so any Step 7 side from Gloucestershire or Bristol wanting to move up look to the Western as that's where their local buddies are, exacerbating the problem further.

And of course Glos and Bristol sides playing teams from Devon and North Dorset is a nonsense, when they should be taking on Oxfordshire and possibly Herefordshire and Worcestershire sides, leaving the Western League to shift south westerly.

The obvious solution is to move the Bristol, North Wiltshire and Gloucestershire sides to the Hellenic and Westbury/Warminster/Devizes/Sherborne to the Wessex.

But no we have this stupid nonsense of the SWPL being awarded two divisions at Step 6, basically county leagues, instead of doing the above, moving 10-12 present SWPL clubs up to the Western Premier, replacing the clubs that move over to the Hellenic/Wessex, and leaving the present SWPL league structure (one that actually works and isn't completely isolationist) in place.

And so cutting off the two peninsula counties from the rest of the country and effectively, to all intents of purposes, completely out of the National League System, is deemed the better option.

Rather perplexing!



If Exmouth fail to achieve a top 2 place(2nd place doesn’t guarantee promotion), then no clubs will be promoted from the SWPL.
On another matter, those that complained about compulsory promotion & how it would destroy teams. Both Marske & Morpeth have come out & stated how much they’re enjoying the NPL. Both are doing extremely well in their first season at the new level. Several NL clubs are keen to follow them up & you’ve got to wonder why they held themselves back for so long?


shimtoan
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Nov 24, 2018, 1:38 AM

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Re: [windydcfc] Non League Projections 2019/20 or Reply Privately


In Reply To
If Exmouth fail to achieve a top 2 place(2nd place doesn’t guarantee promotion), then no clubs will be promoted from the SWPL.
On another matter, those that complained about compulsory promotion & how it would destroy teams. Both Marske & Morpeth have come out & stated how much they’re enjoying the NPL. Both are doing extremely well in their first season at the new level. Several NL clubs are keen to follow them up & you’ve got to wonder why they held themselves back for so long?

If you stay indoors too long you get worried about what it'll be like when you go outside.

When you get outside and get a lungful of fresh air it can make the world of difference.



unless stated, all views are my own and are not the views of any other person, club, or organisation


windydcfc
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Nov 24, 2018, 2:15 PM

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Re: [wazzafan] Non League Projections 2019/20 or Reply Privately

Just as a matter of interest, if Kendal are relegated will you place them in the NL1 & then return Knaresborough to the NCEL Prem. With the SWPL non-promotion issues & the unknown relegation issues for two step 5 league’s that are running short of clubs(League committee discretion). Opening up the possibility that a 2nd NCEL1 will be promoted. I know that you currently have Sherwood being promoted from the EMCL. I was interested to know if all the above happens, where you’d place Newark Flowserve? Because they play out of Balderton, I was wondering if you’d place them into the UCL Prem?


ARNOLD241
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Nov 24, 2018, 6:11 PM

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Re: [windydcfc] Non League Projections 2019/20 or Reply Privately

I think it depends on whether Man C are relegated from the Premier League.


windydcfc
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Nov 24, 2018, 6:15 PM

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Re: [ARNOLD241] Non League Projections 2019/20 or Reply Privately


In Reply To
I think it depends on whether Man C are relegated from the Premier League.



Laugh I’m probably thinking too deeply. Anyway, Flowserve beat Sherwood today & are now in a promotion spot.


windydcfc
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Nov 25, 2018, 12:35 PM

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Re: [wazzafan] Non League Projections 2019/20 or Reply Privately

Can anyone clarify the standardised rules for me. I’m interested in relegation from step 5 & in particular the two league’s that have had teams resign after the start of the season. Am I correct that if teams resign mid-season, then those clubs are deemed last & relegated? What happens if clubs have resigned prior to the start of the season? Obviously this happened in the Northern League. I can’t quite remember if it happened in Hellenic league.
5.3 At Steps 2-5 the Club finishing in last place in the table at the end of the Regular Season will be relegated and not reprieved. Below Step 5 the Clubs to be reprieved will be decided at the sole discretion of the Committee.
5.5 Where a vacancy occurs within the NLS the following procedures will apply:-

End of the Playing Season

5.5.1 (a) Where a Club notifies its decision to resign from its League at the end of the Playing Season, then a vacancy is created on the date the notification of that decision is formally recorded by that League. Such resignation can only be withdrawn by the end of that Playing Season with the consent of the Board of that League.

(b) In all cases, that Club is treated as a relegated Club. The final table of that division is not affected.

(c) In cases where the vacancy is created after the end of the Playing Season but before the League’s AGM, the vacancy will be filled in accordance with Regulation 5.5.2 below.

5.5.2(d) Where a vacancy arises at Step 5 and below, the question of reprieves shall be dealt with at the sole discretion of the Committee.

Prior to the end of a Playing Season

5.5.3 (a) In cases where the vacancy is created prior to the end of the Playing Season, the vacancy will be filled by the best ranked Club in a relegation position at the end of the Regular Season, eligible of being reprieved in that same division. In the event of there being more vacancies than Clubs eligible to be reprieved, such vacancy or vacancies will be filled by Clubs eligible to be reprieved in the Competition’s other division(s) on a points per match ratio.

(b) Where, prior to the end of the Playing Season, a Club notifies its decision to resign from its League with immediate effect or where a Club is removed from the League for any other reason, then the playing record of that Club will be expunged and a vacancy is created on the date the resignation or removal is formally recorded by that League.

(c) In all such cases that Club is treated as a relegated Club and the vacancy will be filled in accordance with 5.5.3 (a) above.


alderman friend
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Nov 25, 2018, 2:53 PM

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Re: [windydcfc] Non League Projections 2019/20 or Reply Privately

so as team north and blyth both resigned from the northern league after the A G M in june 2018 but before the end of season 2018/19 season they should both be classed as relegated clubs. but will the F A see it that way.


windydcfc
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Nov 25, 2018, 3:50 PM

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Re: [alderman friend] Non League Projections 2019/20 or Reply Privately


In Reply To
so as team north and blyth both resigned from the northern league after the A G M in june 2018 but before the end of season 2018/19 season they should both be classed as relegated clubs. but will the F A see it that way.



Will Team Northumbria be classed as starting the season & does that change anything? Also there’s the rule about league committee’s discretion. I’m now veering towards no teams being relegated from the NL. But the rules aren’t clear. I’m taking it that Blyth AFC will nominally be placed in last position.


windydcfc
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Nov 27, 2018, 8:39 PM

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Re: [wazzafan] Non League Projections 2019/20 or Reply Privately

A tweet from Ollie Bayliss: Potters Bar Town are desperately fundraising to avoid relegation from the IsthmianLeague Premier.

They need a new 100 seat stand & an extra 100 capacity covered area by March 31st.

Chairman Peter Waller told @TalkRoberto the work will cost £30,000.


windydcfc
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Nov 28, 2018, 1:27 PM

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Re: [wazzafan] Non League Projections 2019/20 or Reply Privately

You have Brackley Town Saints as being denied promotion. According to them, they are a separate entity from Brackley Town(as defined by the FA) & are expecting to be promoted if they win the league.


leohoenig
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Nov 28, 2018, 2:37 PM

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Re: [windydcfc] Non League Projections 2019/20 or Reply Privately


In Reply To
You have Brackley Town Saints as being denied promotion. According to them, they are a separate entity from Brackley Town(as defined by the FA) & are expecting to be promoted if they win the league.


While I believe the FA have accepted them as separate, someone should tell the Brackley Town website, which clearly shows them as a subsidary team



Fat AND Pompous.
The proof that you can have too much of a good thing
Now blogging at http://www.leohoenig.com



Sarumio
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Nov 28, 2018, 3:47 PM

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Re: [leohoenig] Non League Projections 2019/20 or Reply Privately


In Reply To

In Reply To
You have Brackley Town Saints as being denied promotion. According to them, they are a separate entity from Brackley Town(as defined by the FA) & are expecting to be promoted if they win the league.


While I believe the FA have accepted them as separate, someone should tell the Brackley Town website, which clearly shows them as a subsidary team


Quite.


Some people will believe and accept anything you tell them.

The Saints team has done some certain things, that tick some certain criteria that decrees them as being separate. That is it.

To me its kind of like divorcing your parents. Sure you can do it in theory, tick some boxes, meet some criteria – but it doesn’t make them any less your parents or you any less their child.


paulh66
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Nov 28, 2018, 4:24 PM

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Re: [Sarumio] Non League Projections 2019/20 or Reply Privately

Extending and mixing the analogy, offspring aren't necessarily subservient to their parents but reserve teams are inherently subservient to the first team.

Interesting takeaway from windydcfc's post that Saints themselves believe they're sufficiently separate to be eligible for promotion, which would suggest the NLS Committee's view will likely be compatible with the more detailed criteria set out in the FA Cup rules about connections with other clubs (obviously one would expect that to be the case but you can never be completely sure with the FA!) These rules are matters of substance which focus on the underlying control of the club, not simply boxes being ticked, but if you're suggesting the FA have been hoodwinked it'd be interesting to know in what respect exactly. Or, going back to the analogy, explain in what way Saints are, in reality, subservient to Town.

To the extent I'd ever thought about it, I suppose my gut feel, like yours, was always that there was too close a connection but digging into the facts suggests otherwise. So far, anyway.


Sarumio
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Nov 29, 2018, 9:40 AM

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Re: [paulh66] Non League Projections 2019/20 or Reply Privately

Yes, we accept they cannot operate in the same way as a usual reserve side does. And thus technically they aren’t a reserve side. That’s not really being debated.

What’s being brought into question is their existing link to Brackley Town, with whom they share a name, nickname, playing colours, club badge, ground and even a website!!

Brackley Town Saints may think they are separate, but Brackley Town are clearly of a different belief and giving the entirely opposite impression.

And so with all that in mind, whilst they cannot be considered a true reserve side, it would appear tnat Brackley Town as a parent organisation if you like are operating two distinct clubs, one in the National League North and one in the Hellenic League.

Their links to each other in that sense (as opposed to any link in registration and player movement) is undeniable.

Can these two clubs (well, teams as in my opinion as they both belong to the same club) play in the same division for example, with threatening to bring the competition into disrepute?

Example scenario: both end up in the Southern League Premier (Central) in a couple of years’ time through natural promotion and relegation. The Saints team are already relegated and are scheduled to play Brackley Town on the last day of the season, with Brackley Town needing a win to stay up. Are we really to believe that there wouldn’t be some directive within the club for the Saints to throw the game (subtly) in order to save at least one of the pair from relegation? Or, similarly, Saints team needing a win against one of Brackley Town’s relegation rivals in order to secure safety for the latter?

Or even vice versa.

These two clubs remain intrinsically linked and so the Saints team should not be considered a separate entity, should not play in the FA Cup and should not be allowed promotion to Step 4 in my opinion.


paulh66
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Nov 29, 2018, 10:57 AM

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Re: [Sarumio] Non League Projections 2019/20 or Reply Privately

Yes, it's the nature of the existing links that's front and centre of this.

Assuming, then, you have no evidence that the club has breached FA Cup rules regarding dual interests in clubs, then you have no basis to claim that Brackley Town "are clearly of a different belief" (to Saints' belief that they're sufficiently separate). Yes, there's a perception because of the shared website etc but, as far as we know, that's all it is - a perception rather than anything more substantial.

Also, your hypothetical example about "some directive within the club to throw a game" etc would be very far-fetched if the club is indeed compliant with those FA Cup rules - because the whole point of the rules is to prevent exactly those types of situation. So again, unless there's a loophole in how those rules have been designed, or unless the club isn't actually compliant with them, then how can any such "directive within the club" be issued or carry weight? Of course you could still be left with a situation where, using your example, Saints went into a game with Town's destiny in their own hands but, given what I've just explained, it's hard to see how that would be any different in substance to any other club which goes into a game with the destiny of, say, a near neighbour or 'their mates' at another club in their hands - a situation which isn't that unusual and can itself arouse suspicion but can't really be legislated against.

As an aside, in a past discussion a few months ago on this I recall a reference to Ilkeston's absence from the FA Cup, the suggestion being that they perhaps weren't eligible because of their owner's links to Notts County. If that was indeed the reason, then it's an interesting comparison/contrast to the Brackley scenario in terms of substance versus perception.


(This post was edited by paulh66 on Nov 29, 2018, 11:00 AM)


shimtoan
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Nov 29, 2018, 11:40 AM

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Re: [paulh66] Non League Projections 2019/20 or Reply Privately


In Reply To
Yes, it's the nature of the existing links that's front and centre of this.

Assuming, then, you have no evidence that the club has breached FA Cup rules regarding dual interests in clubs, then you have no basis to claim that Brackley Town "are clearly of a different belief" (to Saints' belief that they're sufficiently separate). Yes, there's a perception because of the shared website etc but, as far as we know, that's all it is - a perception rather than anything more substantial.

Also, your hypothetical example about "some directive within the club to throw a game" etc would be very far-fetched if the club is indeed compliant with those FA Cup rules - because the whole point of the rules is to prevent exactly those types of situation. So again, unless there's a loophole in how those rules have been designed, or unless the club isn't actually compliant with them, then how can any such "directive within the club" be issued or carry weight? Of course you could still be left with a situation where, using your example, Saints went into a game with Town's destiny in their own hands but, given what I've just explained, it's hard to see how that would be any different in substance to any other club which goes into a game with the destiny of, say, a near neighbour or 'their mates' at another club in their hands - a situation which isn't that unusual and can itself arouse suspicion but can't really be legislated against.

As an aside, in a past discussion a few months ago on this I recall a reference to Ilkeston's absence from the FA Cup, the suggestion being that they perhaps weren't eligible because of their owner's links to Notts County. If that was indeed the reason, then it's an interesting comparison/contrast to the Brackley scenario in terms of substance versus perception.

Ilkeston and Notts have the same chairman.

Even if they didn't, Ilkeston didn't play in the Vase last season so couldn't enter the FA Cup regardless



unless stated, all views are my own and are not the views of any other person, club, or organisation


paulh66
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Re: [shimtoan] Non League Projections 2019/20 or Reply Privately

Ah OK, cheers. Be interesting to see if/how Ilkeston are accepted into the Cup next season then, especially as their ownership model didn't prevent them from being allowed up to step 5 (i.e. higher than connected clubs are allowed under the NLS Regulations).


Sarumio
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Nov 29, 2018, 3:22 PM

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Re: [paulh66] Non League Projections 2019/20 or Reply Privately

Yes but Ilkeston Town are not called Notts County Magpies.

Nor do Notts County have a section on their official websote devoted to Ilkeston Town, or listing them as one of the club's teams.


paulh66
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Nov 29, 2018, 3:32 PM

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Re: [Sarumio] Non League Projections 2019/20 or Reply Privately

Irrelevant, in terms of substance (as opposed, perhaps, to perception). But if you wish to remain needlessly perplexed by the Brackley situation just because of a website then I'll leave you to it.


(This post was edited by paulh66 on Nov 29, 2018, 3:39 PM)


Sarumio
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Re: [paulh66] Non League Projections 2019/20 or Reply Privately


In Reply To
Irrelevant, in terms of substance (as opposed, perhaps, to perception). But if you wish to remain needlessly perplexed by the Brackley situation just because of a website then so be it.



Of course its not irrelevant.

As has been said over and over again it’s their entire identity – well lack of individual identity – their name, their ground, their club badge, their playing colours, their website….. everything that gives clubs their individual identity – but in their case its just Brackley Town’s everything with the nickname of Brackley Town (SAINTS) appended to the end!

Brackley Town’s website is indicative of the link – and so cannot be just brushed under the carpet as irrelevant, why else would Brackley Town FC have a section on their website dedicated to another club that merely ground shares with them?

Come on....


paulh66
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Re: [Sarumio] Non League Projections 2019/20 or Reply Privately

Quite possibly my last post on this (..maybe)
The whole point of the current restrictions in place in the NLS and FA Cup re connected clubs is to preserve integrity of competition - which at the end of the day is at the heart of whether Saints and clubs like them should be allowed up.
You're jumping to conclusions based on a website while still disregarding the club's apparent compliance with the regulations in place, yet these regulations are far more substantive in terms of preserving the integrity of completion than a perception (or misperception) created by a website.
I'd agree you've identified an issue which raises a question mark. I don't know the answer to that question, but all the evidence suggests the club has answered it satisfactorily and is therefore not in a position to compromise the integrity of competition any more than any other club. Unless and until anything else comes to light, that's it in a nutshell.


windydcfc
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Re: [Rebel Yeller] Non League Projections 2019/20 or Reply Privately


In Reply To
Down my neck of the woods the Middlesex League currently has a top 3 of St. Panteleimon, Pitshanger Dynamo and PFC Victoria, all groundsharing at Step 5 and above clubs.
In the Surrey Elite Westside are top who share at AFC Croydon Athletic at Step 5.
So I'm guessing that all of these have promotion to Step 6 as an aim for the not too distant future.



Westside held a positive meeting last night & are apply for promotion. They said that they just need to keep the performances up now.


Lillywhite
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Re: [Sarumio] Non League Projections 2019/20 or Reply Privately


In Reply To

In Reply To
Irrelevant, in terms of substance (as opposed, perhaps, to perception). But if you wish to remain needlessly perplexed by the Brackley situation just because of a website then so be it.



Of course its not irrelevant.

As has been said over and over again it’s their entire identity – well lack of individual identity – their name, their ground, their club badge, their playing colours, their website….. everything that gives clubs their individual identity – but in their case its just Brackley Town’s everything with the nickname of Brackley Town (SAINTS) appended to the end!

Brackley Town’s website is indicative of the link – and so cannot be just brushed under the carpet as irrelevant, why else would Brackley Town FC have a section on their website dedicated to another club that merely ground shares with them?

Come on....


NFA Hillier Senior Cup Final - Brackley Town v Brackley Saints in Semi-Final for the right to play AFC Rushden & Diamonds/Cogenhoe United in the Final.


TomRoystonCrow
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Dec 1, 2018, 7:16 PM

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Re: [wazzafan] Non League Projections 2019/20 or Reply Privately

Which 2 clubs would you put in the Central after Bishop’s Stortford, Harlow Town and Brightlingea Regent?


(This post was edited by TomRoystonCrow on Dec 1, 2018, 8:49 PM)


windydcfc
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Re: [windydcfc] Non League Projections 2019/20 or Reply Privately


In Reply To

In Reply To
Down my neck of the woods the Middlesex League currently has a top 3 of St. Panteleimon, Pitshanger Dynamo and PFC Victoria, all groundsharing at Step 5 and above clubs.
In the Surrey Elite Westside are top who share at AFC Croydon Athletic at Step 5.
So I'm guessing that all of these have promotion to Step 6 as an aim for the not too distant future.



Westside held a positive meeting last night & are apply for promotion. They said that they just need to keep the performances up now.



AFC Cubo are aiming for promotion.


borninchesham
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Dec 2, 2018, 2:06 PM

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Re: [TomRoystonCrow] Non League Projections 2019/20 or Reply Privately

I would think that Beaconsfield woukld be more likely than Brightlingsea as the Siouth Bucks clubs are a natural fit

However, I would think that Chesham will be first on the list after they win their fight against relegation!


Mr. T
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Re: [borninchesham] Non League Projections 2019/20 or Reply Privately

What's gone wrong at Chesham this year? Two good FA Cup runs in 2015 and 2016 ought to have helped the finances.


borninchesham
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Re: [Mr. T] Non League Projections 2019/20 or Reply Privately


In Reply To
What's gone wrong at Chesham this year? Two good FA Cup runs in 2015 and 2016 ought to have helped the finances.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
According to the club directors/owners the cost of upkeep of The Meadow is exceedingly expensive. However, they do insist that the playing budget hasn't been decreased. They have also stated that relegation is not an option!

To my mind, viewing from afar, I think the management/playing staff became stale. When Andy Leese was replaced at the start of last season, they kept the appointment in-house & it just hadn't worked. The recovery in the second half of last season covered over the cracks that needed addressing & led to the absymal start to this campaign, culminating in the 7-0 defeat at Beaconsfield.
Since the arrival of James Duncan & Michael Murray from Potters Bar, the playing staff & performances have improved considerably. I would expect that by the start of 2019, Chesham will be clear of the relegation places & moving towards mid-table. I certainly hope that is the case!
Provided they are still in the Premier division, I'm sure the club would be quite happy with a move to the Central Division as that would reduce travelling costs. Lowestoft & Leiston would be the only two "out of the way" visits as compared to the numerous trips "down west" this season!



windydcfc
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Re: [windydcfc] Non League Projections 2019/20 or Reply Privately


In Reply To

In Reply To

In Reply To

In Reply To

In Reply To
Down my neck of the woods the Middlesex League currently has a top 3 of St. Panteleimon, Pitshanger Dynamo and PFC Victoria, all groundsharing at Step 5 and above clubs.
In the Surrey Elite Westside are top who share at AFC Croydon Athletic at Step 5.
So I'm guessing that all of these have promotion to Step 6 as an aim for the not too distant future.



PFC Vics are applying & they expect the other two to apply

St Panteleimon will be applying



Foley Meir from the Staffs Senior will be applying



Ilkley Town from the WYL, have been planning to apply for promotion. They are having an inspection in the next couple of weeks & will decide then if they can complete the works in time.



Ilkley Town have had the inspection from the NCEL. They need to upgrade their changing facilities & some further upgrades to their ground. They will need to raise a substantial amount of money & will decide soon if they apply this season or next.


Jimbo
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Re: [windydcfc] Non League Projections 2019/20 or Reply Privately

This statement has appeared upon the NWCFL website concerning lateral transfers and Step 6 entry. Doesn't appear to say anything too radical, but it might be of interest to somebody:


Quote
The FA has written to all leagues in the National League System, asking them to remind all clubs of the possibility of lateral movement between leagues at the end of the current season.

The letter was sent to all leagues at Steps 2 to 7, and reinforces the possibility of lateral movements and states that while it is too early to be more specific at this stage, the advance warning is being given to all clubs, to advise that this could occur.

A notice has also been issued for New Clubs and teams wishing to enter the System above Step 7, as opposed to clubs wishing to be promoted from Step 7 to 6.

Usually a club can only enter the NLS at Step 7. However, a League may seek approval from the Committee to receive a club or team not currently in membership of a League within the NLS provided that there is:

(a) exceptional circumstances

(b) a vacancy within its constitution

(c) the club meets the entry criteria and

(d) promotion and relegation issues have been satisfied.

The deadline for these applications to be received by the FA has now changed to 1st February in each season and it is a League that must apply for a Club to be entered in to their competition, not the Club itself.

However, the FA have emphasised that a club will only be considered for allocation to a league or division after normal promotion and relegation has been applied, and if a vacancy exists in that particular division.

Any decision shall only be capable of Appeal to The Association by the affected League.



multilevel
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Re: [Jimbo] Non League Projections 2019/20 or Reply Privately


In Reply To

Quote
...Usually a club can only enter the NLS at Step 7. However, a League may seek approval from the Committee to receive a club or team not currently in membership of a League...

...it is a League that must apply for a Club to be entered in to their competition, not the Club itself...

...Any decision shall only be capable of Appeal to The Association by the affected League.


One potentially interesting point here is that a club outside the usual system needs to be effectively sponsored by a league to get in.

In the past I guess a club could kind of apply centrally and, if accepted, a League would be told to accept them. This seems to have changed and could end up with different decisions being implemented in different parts of the country.


windydcfc
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Dec 5, 2018, 1:08 PM

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Re: [multilevel] Non League Projections 2019/20 or Reply Privately


In Reply To

In Reply To

Quote
...Usually a club can only enter the NLS at Step 7. However, a League may seek approval from the Committee to receive a club or team not currently in membership of a League...

...it is a League that must apply for a Club to be entered in to their competition, not the Club itself...

...Any decision shall only be capable of Appeal to The Association by the affected League.


One potentially interesting point here is that a club outside the usual system needs to be effectively sponsored by a league to get in.

In the past I guess a club could kind of apply centrally and, if accepted, a League would be told to accept them. This seems to have changed and could end up with different decisions being implemented in different parts of the country.



I know one club that might be looking into this & they’re Durham Utd. The only issue is I doubt there’ll be a space for them in the NL2. After all the normal promotion & relegation issues have been sorted. In previous seasons, I think there would’ve space for them. I know Jersey have been mentioned for the CCL.


windydcfc
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Re: [wazzafan] Non League Projections 2019/20 or Reply Privately

Looking at step 5, the East Midlands clubs are now even more split than ever before(if we end up with something close to your projection). We are left with just 4 East Midlands clubs in the MFL Prem. If Spalding Utd avoids the drop & replaced by an ex-NCEL club. We’ll still have 4 clubs in the MFL, but they’ll be even more isolated & it’ll leave a single East Midlands club in the NCEL Prem. I really hope the FA are looking towards the East Midlands to create the new step 5 league for 2020/21 season. But I’ve got a niggling feeling that they’ll look towards the West Midlands.


windydcfc
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Re: [windydcfc] Non League Projections 2019/20 or Reply Privately

I understand that in the Beds County League Shefford Town & Campton plus Cranfield Utd are both applying for promotion. Wootton Blue Cross have ambitions to apply, but they may not be ready this season.


pokal02
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Re: [windydcfc] Non League Projections 2019/20 or Reply Privately

A preliminary look suggests that, for Step 1-6 hoppers, next season may pose fewer difficulties than this in completion/recompletion, a number of leagues will either not be providing a club (eg Oxon Senior) or a returning club (eg Lincs) or an existing Step 6+ ground (eg Middx). I'm looking at 20-23 excluding new builds - others will have more or less depending on how many of the likely SWPL promotees they need.


windydcfc
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Re: [pokal02] Non League Projections 2019/20 or Reply Privately

Ashville from the West Cheshire league are applying for promotion


Jimbo
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Dec 14, 2018, 10:32 PM

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Re: [windydcfc] Non League Projections 2019/20 or Reply Privately


In Reply To
Ashville from the West Cheshire league are applying for promotion


The facilities are certainly there. Just need to work things out on the pitch now...


Rushcliffe
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Dec 17, 2018, 1:00 PM

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Re: [wazzafan] Non League Projections 2019/20 or Reply Privately

first time ive had a proper look through this,
One thing that jumped out at me is Skegness Town in the East Midlands counties League. Surely a swap with Shirebrook Town would make more sense, especially as you placed Ollerton in there, Shirebrook is further west than Ollerton and far better Suited to That league than Skegness.

Shows how crazy the whole situation is when Newark Flowserve are projected as being in the UCL prem, i can see why theyve been placed there, but i wouldnt have imagined that was where they would go, I would have thought, NCEL or maybe Midlands prem, but i cant see who would switch to make it work with that one.


windydcfc
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Dec 17, 2018, 1:19 PM

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Re: [Rushcliffe] Non League Projections 2019/20 or Reply Privately


In Reply To
first time ive had a proper look through this,
One thing that jumped out at me is Skegness Town in the East Midlands counties League. Surely a swap with Shirebrook Town would make more sense, especially as you placed Ollerton in there, Shirebrook is further west than Ollerton and far better Suited to That league than Skegness.

Shows how crazy the whole situation is when Newark Flowserve are projected as being in the UCL prem, i can see why theyve been placed there, but i wouldnt have imagined that was where they would go, I would have thought, NCEL or maybe Midlands prem, but i cant see who would switch to make it work with that one.



Flowserve are from Balderton & I reckon their nearest clubs at step 5/6 are Sleaford Town & Harrowby Utd. Whether the league committee decides to move more Leicestershire clubs from the MFL, instead of placing Flowserve in the UCL, we’ll have to wait & see. But the NCEL1 runners up, are just outside the promotion places on a ppg basis & if they are promoted too. Then I can’t see Flowserve being placed in anywhere but the UCL.
We have a strange situation, where the Notts/Derbys clubs, are stuck out on a limb in the MFL Prem & NCEL Prem. Hopefully whenever the new restructuring occurs, they’ll all be placed in a league that utilities the M1/A1 corridor.


Rushcliffe
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Dec 17, 2018, 2:58 PM

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Re: [windydcfc] Non League Projections 2019/20 or Reply Privately

just had a quick look, and I think your right, unless Carlton town were to get relegated, who then would be their nearest step 5 club I think, well at least as the crow flies, maybe not in terms of roads.


windydcfc
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Re: [Rushcliffe] Non League Projections 2019/20 or Reply Privately


In Reply To
just had a quick look, and I think your right, unless Carlton town were to get relegated, who then would be their nearest step 5 club I think, well at least as the crow flies, maybe not in terms of roads.



Where their ground is(off Hawton Lane Balderton), I’d say it’d take 25mins to get to Harrowby’s ground. Dunkirk look like they might drop back down, so Long Eaton Utd must be the nearest MFL Prem ground & that’s got to be a good 45mins drive. If AFC Mansfield are also relegated & end up in either the MFL Prem or NCEL Prem, then that’s 35-40mins away. Sleaford Town’s ground must be no more than 30-35mins away.


Sarumio
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Dec 18, 2018, 9:50 AM

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Re: [wazzafan] Non League Projections 2019/20 or Reply Privately

Hi.

I’ve just been looking at the latest projections and I can’t help but notice some rather absurd Step 6 reprieves.

The FA are seemingly now obsessed with awarding clubs certain privileges based on their PPG ratio on the basis that it is compared with all comparable clubs in the same position acorss the country. For example PPG being used to promote some of the second placed sides at Step 6. PPG is also now used in the palyoff charade at Step 4.

To make things consistent across the board surely they must use the same approach with relegation from Step 6. Your projections at the moment shows some Harworth Colliery, Daisy Hill and Brandon United as being relegated. OK they aren’t (and haven’t for quite some time in the latter two’s case) setting their divisions alight but it is categorically wrong to relegate these clubs based on their geography alone. That is what you are predicting the FA will do, sadly. It’s practically discrimination.

And at the same time a club that has already shipped 200 goals before Christmas (New College Swindon) and their notorious divisional neighbours Tytherington Rocks (who have now scored just 3 points in 2 years and those three points came from beating…yes..…New College Swindon) continue to be afforded Step 6 status, due to where in England they play. Tytherington’s record at this level is so bad that they have now only amassed 48 points in the last FIVE years.

If you are predicting, at present, that 12 Step 6 clubs will be relegated to Sep 7 – then I am of the opinion that it should be the worst 12 clubs in the country at that level.

So it should be these 12 that go down:

Borrowash Victoria 0.33
Chinnor 0.33
North Leigh United 0.33
Ellesmere Rangers 0.31
Needham Market Reserves 0.31
Tytherington Rocks 0.27
Littleton 0.25
Hatfield Town 0.22
New College Swindon 0.21
FC Bolsover 0.19
Sticker 0.17
Arnold Town 0.14


Or it should be the worst 12 BOTTOM placed sides. But that saves the dreaded Tyhtherington – so I’d rather the above.


pokal02
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Re: [Sarumio] Non League Projections 2019/20 or Reply Privately

If they go for the worst-placed bottom clubs, which seems sensible to me, then we're back into the 'are Carterton/Bicester deemed to be bottom because they folded' argument that applies in the NL a step above. So we still might not lose New College or Tytherington!


Richard Rundle
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Dec 18, 2018, 11:30 AM

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Re: [Sarumio] Non League Projections 2019/20 or Reply Privately

You can forget the idea of Sticker being relegated; all the current SWP Premier clubs are "Priority One" for places in the two new Step 6 divisions.


genesimmons
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Re: [Sarumio] Non League Projections 2019/20 or Reply Privately

im confident the bottom 2 will get a reprieve in the northern league, the league is running with 2 clubs short which will be 3 when one goes up. not exactly many (if any) teams certs for relegation in the leagues catchment area.



You wanted the best, you got the best


Sarumio
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Dec 18, 2018, 1:55 PM

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Re: [Richard Rundle] Non League Projections 2019/20 or Reply Privately


In Reply To
You can forget the idea of Sticker being relegated; all the current SWP Premier clubs are "Priority One" for places in the two new Step 6 divisions.


So it’ll be like last year all over again then. Teams with 30-40 points and not finishing bottom relegated to Step 7 whilst Sticker don’t have to score another point this season and can just pack up now (not literally as that’d be different) and New College Swindon, Arnold, Borrowash and Tytherington can play Who Can Let In The Most Goals all the way up until May and still not go down.


leohoenig
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Dec 18, 2018, 3:05 PM

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Re: [Sarumio] Non League Projections 2019/20 or Reply Privately

It comes down to where you think the base of the "perfect pyramid" should be.

Above this, all decisions are national, points per game should rule the roost (as the fairest if not best way to do things, as inter-league play offs for relegation are not something under consideration). This means any club on any boundary can be shifted to a neighbouring league. Below this, it is regional - so in one region an abysmal club can be spared the drop, which a much better club in another area gets relegated.
My view is that a hybrid version is required. In most of the country, including the Hellenic League step 6 is pooled, but some (I think two) areas are ring fenced. The South West Peninsular league should not stretch outside Devon (at least by more than a few miles), while the Northern League requires a Southern limit. No current Northern League club should ever be considered as a potential member of the Northern Counties (East) and only Pickering are eligible to move the other way.



Fat AND Pompous.
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Sarumio
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Dec 18, 2018, 4:09 PM

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Re: [leohoenig] Non League Projections 2019/20 or Reply Privately


In Reply To
It comes down to where you think the base of the "perfect pyramid" should be.

Above this, all decisions are national, points per game should rule the roost (as the fairest if not best way to do things, as inter-league play offs for relegation are not something under consideration). This means any club on any boundary can be shifted to a neighbouring league. Below this, it is regional - so in one region an abysmal club can be spared the drop, which a much better club in another area gets relegated.
My view is that a hybrid version is required. In most of the country, including the Hellenic League step 6 is pooled, but some (I think two) areas are ring fenced. The South West Peninsular league should not stretch outside Devon (at least by more than a few miles), while the Northern League requires a Southern limit. No current Northern League club should ever be considered as a potential member of the Northern Counties (East) and only Pickering are eligible to move the other way.


Can I ask you to justify two such sweeping statements:

Can you explain why Devon clubs should not be required to travel outside their own cosy little county at Step 6, yet the rest of the country must?

And can you explain your statement on the Northern League. Why should Northalletrton Town, for example, never, under any circumstance ever be moved to the NCEL? Especially as the NCEL keeps losing its southern most members to the EMCL (at Step 6) and MFL (at Step 5), making it less and less daunting for the likes of Northallerton, as the years go by!


leohoenig
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Re: [Sarumio] Non League Projections 2019/20 or Reply Privately

It is because I do not think the perfect pyramid can extend to these corners. Any step 6 side that is outside what is now the Devon/Cornwall bubble enters a league that stretches beyond Bristol. The Northern Counties (East) may contract in time to become a Yorkshire League, but it has not done so yet.

We have a surfeit of clubs trying to move up from step 7, especially around London (on shared grounds). Allowing these in and contracting the league areas in the south means increasing the areas elsewhere.

In turn, an outlying club in another area, Northallerton is a good example - cannot find the players to maintain its position from the local populace alone. It is playing in the Northern League and almost certainly recruinging players from the next conurbation of population to the north. If they were to switch to a Yorkshire based league, this would cause great disruption to the club. They would have to turn their recruitment on its head overnight, and there would be a strong possibility that a change places the club in danger of folding or voluntarily dropping a division

I think the FA has painted itself into a poor corner in the South West. With Step 6 leagues in both Devon and Cornwall, they now need a Step 5 league that does not go far beyond these two counties' borders. However, there is no indication that they are considering this, or could get the clubs to fill it.



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Richard Rundle
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Dec 18, 2018, 6:26 PM

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Re: [Sarumio] Non League Projections 2019/20 or Reply Privately


In Reply To
Can I ask you to justify two such sweeping statements:

Can you explain why Devon clubs should not be required to travel outside their own cosy little county at Step 6, yet the rest of the country must?


Compare the mileage for potential teams in the new Step 6 divisions with that of the East Midlands Counties League, doesn't look like much difference.


windydcfc
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Re: [leohoenig] Non League Projections 2019/20 or Reply Privately


In Reply To
It comes down to where you think the base of the "perfect pyramid" should be.

Above this, all decisions are national, points per game should rule the roost (as the fairest if not best way to do things, as inter-league play offs for relegation are not something under consideration). This means any club on any boundary can be shifted to a neighbouring league. Below this, it is regional - so in one region an abysmal club can be spared the drop, which a much better club in another area gets relegated.
My view is that a hybrid version is required. In most of the country, including the Hellenic League step 6 is pooled, but some (I think two) areas are ring fenced. The South West Peninsular league should not stretch outside Devon (at least by more than a few miles), while the Northern League requires a Southern limit. No current Northern League club should ever be considered as a potential member of the Northern Counties (East) and only Pickering are eligible to move the other way.



Pickering are at step 4 now. I checked Knaresborough’s mileage, if they are laterally transferred to the NL at the end of the season. It’s actually not too bad compared to this season in the NCEL. If Harrogate RA are relegated this season(which looks likely). Then Knaresborough closest clubs are Northallerton & Garforth(the southern most NL club & the projected next most northerly NCEL club)& they sit almost halfway between them. It’s only 94 miles to Ashington & 74 miles to Forest Town(AFC Mansfield, if they are relegated).


(This post was edited by windydcfc on Dec 18, 2018, 7:11 PM)


leohoenig
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Re: [windydcfc] Non League Projections 2019/20 or Reply Privately

Which is fine, Windy if Knaresborough's players all live in Knaresborough and the vicinity - but if they recruit in the Leeds/Bradford conurbation, then this changes the logic



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windydcfc
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Re: [leohoenig] Non League Projections 2019/20 or Reply Privately


In Reply To
Which is fine, Windy if Knaresborough's players all live in Knaresborough and the vicinity - but if they recruit in the Leeds/Bradford conurbation, then this changes the logic



For good or bad, lateral transfers are now part of the the FA’s pyramid(from steps 2-7). Lots of clubs up & down the country have been laterally moved over the past few years. Some have found it a struggle & other’s have benefited from it. I’d guess that Knaresborough are most likely recruiting players from Leeds/Bradford/Halifax/Huddersfield & might have to look at players from Teesside next season(if they’re moved across).


mick
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Re: [leohoenig] Non League Projections 2019/20 or Reply Privately


In Reply To
Which is fine, Windy if Knaresborough's players all live in Knaresborough and the vicinity - but if they recruit in the Leeds/Bradford conurbation, then this changes the logic


To the spreadsheet warriors all that matters is where a club is based. The fact that the local population cannot provide the number of players of the required standard for a particular level, hence they must recruit from larger conurbations, is of no relevance. Their spreadsheets tell them that as club x is xx miles from club y (the furthest away in an adjacent league) a transfer will cause no problems at all. The warriors, of course, are highly unlikely to have set foot in the places whose clubs they think should be reallocated, probably not even within 50 miles of them, but that won't matter.

Unfortunately, I am not talking about spreadsheet warriors on internet fora, who can safely be ignored, but those in positions where actual decisions are made which affect the wellbeing (or otherwise) of real football clubs.


Sarumio
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Re: [mick] Non League Projections 2019/20 or Reply Privately


In Reply To

In Reply To
Which is fine, Windy if Knaresborough's players all live in Knaresborough and the vicinity - but if they recruit in the Leeds/Bradford conurbation, then this changes the logic


To the spreadsheet warriors all that matters is where a club is based. The fact that the local population cannot provide the number of players of the required standard for a particular level, hence they must recruit from larger conurbations, is of no relevance. Their spreadsheets tell them that as club x is xx miles from club y (the furthest away in an adjacent league) a transfer will cause no problems at all. The warriors, of course, are highly unlikely to have set foot in the places whose clubs they think should be reallocated, probably not even within 50 miles of them, but that won't matter.

Unfortunately, I am not talking about spreadsheet warriors on internet fora, who can safely be ignored, but those in positions where actual decisions are made which affect the wellbeing (or otherwise) of real football clubs.


Spreadsheet warriors or not, it is far from irrelevant and cannot be ignored.

Do you really think the FA will start looking at where every last club at Steps 5 and 6 recruits their players from? What are they going to do - send out surveys to every club in the land and request the home addresses of all their current squad and then club by club work out where the club should be placed based on this statistical data. Really? Come on - they look at a map and stick clubs in leagues based on that.


Rightly or wrong, but most understandably thats it. If clubs like Knaresborough want to continue playing at the level they do then they WILL go wherever the FA sends them at the end of the day! The NCEL cannot protect them, and whilst the club can appeal any movement its proven in the past to be a waste of time and money.

Step 5 and 6 allocations are no longer made up of individual applications made by the clubs themselves to a particular league they are interested in joining.

The application is now made to the FA, and the application is effectively for promotion to the next step, not a league.

So, whilst its important to a club where their players live, the FA don't care! And so it actually thoughts like yours that can be safely ignored, not the other way round.


windydcfc
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Re: [Sarumio] Non League Projections 2019/20 or Reply Privately

The only consideration, is the fact that the FA wants to reduce the mileage for clubs. The league committee allowed a few leagues at step 6 to run short last season. I wonder if they’ll do that for step 5(I’m thinking specifically about the NL)?


paulh66
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Re: [Sarumio] Non League Projections 2019/20 or Reply Privately

Come on - they look at a map and stick clubs in leagues based on that.

Rightly or wrong, but most understandably thats it. If clubs like Knaresborough want to continue playing at the level they do then they WILL go wherever the FA sends them at the end of the day! The NCEL cannot protect them, and whilst the club can appeal any movement its proven in the past to be a waste of time and money.

Step 5 and 6 allocations are no longer made up of individual applications made by the clubs themselves to a particular league they are interested in joining.

The application is now made to the FA, and the application is effectively for promotion to the next step, not a league.

So, whilst its important to a club where their players live, the FA don't care!


This is incorrect in a number of respects.

The language used in the NLS Regulations when talking about placement of laterally-moved (as well as promoted and relegated) clubs is that they will be "placed in the most geographically appropriate division." The Regs also go on to explain the appeals process.

The concept of "the most geographically appropriate division" is not defined further within the Regs BUT Reg 6.1 (which deals with lateral transfers) does give clear insight into the factors that are considered, both in making these allocations and in considering appeals against the allocation:
"In coming to its decision the Committee will have regard to any representations made by any party, the distance to be travelled by any Club to be moved compared to the distance travelled in the Playing Season prior to movement; the financial impact on the Club to be moved, the frequency with which the Club has been moved in the past; the number of Clubs both in the division to which the Club is to be moved and in the division from which the Club is moved, and any other matter that it considers to be relevant."

Clearly, therefore, any representations from the club's league and the financial impact, including from player recruitment, ARE taken into account by the FA - if not sufficiently within the initial placement of the club, then certainly on appeal. Furthermore, appeals have not "been proven in the past to be a waste of time and money", as illustrated by the successful appeals lodged by the likes of Didcot and Hashtag against their respective placements last summer.


mick
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Re: [paulh66] Non League Projections 2019/20 or Reply Privately


In Reply To
This is incorrect in a number of respects.


Maybe, if what is in the regulations is what happens in practice.

One example which suggests it sometimes isn't - Ashland Rvrs appealed against being placed in the Central Midlands rather than the Notts Senior. Eastwood Community appealed against being in the NSL rather than the CMFL. Yes, a map shows Eastwood is closer to Nottingham but both clubs obviously had reasons why they wanted to be switched and a straight swap would have been possible. Both appeals were rejected.


(This post was edited by mick on Dec 19, 2018, 12:42 PM)


paulh66
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Re: [mick] Non League Projections 2019/20 or Reply Privately

We'd need to know why those appeals were rejected before drawing a conclusion about whether the FA is properly applying its own rules. Certainly in the few cases in the summer where I'm aware the reasons for rejecting an appeal were made public, in each case it can be seen the FA did follow its own rules....even when the particular rule itself was found to be flawed e.g. Tividale.


windydcfc
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Re: [mick] Non League Projections 2019/20 or Reply Privately


In Reply To

In Reply To
This is incorrect in a number of respects.


Maybe, if what is in the regulations is what happens in practice.

One example which suggests it sometimes isn't - Ashland Rvrs appealed against being placed in the Central Midlands rather than the Notts Senior. Eastwood Community appealed against being in the NSL rather than the CMFL. Yes, a map shows Eastwood is closer to Nottingham but both clubs obviously had reasons why they wanted to be switched and a straight swap would have been possible. Both appeals were rejected.



I was told by an official from one of those step 7 leagues. That the decision was based on postcode & distance. With the NSL running with 18 clubs & Arnold likely to be relegated into that league. It wouldn’t surprise me if Eastwood Reserves are moved back into the CML next season.


hawkwind
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Re: [paulh66] Non League Projections 2019/20 or Reply Privately


In Reply To
Come on - they look at a map and stick clubs in leagues based on that.

Rightly or wrong, but most understandably thats it. If clubs like Knaresborough want to continue playing at the level they do then they WILL go wherever the FA sends them at the end of the day! The NCEL cannot protect them, and whilst the club can appeal any movement its proven in the past to be a waste of time and money.

Step 5 and 6 allocations are no longer made up of individual applications made by the clubs themselves to a particular league they are interested in joining.

The application is now made to the FA, and the application is effectively for promotion to the next step, not a league.

So, whilst its important to a club where their players live, the FA don't care!


This is incorrect in a number of respects.

The language used in the NLS Regulations when talking about placement of laterally-moved (as well as promoted and relegated) clubs is that they will be "placed in the most geographically appropriate division." The Regs also go on to explain the appeals process.

The concept of "the most geographically appropriate division" is not defined further within the Regs BUT Reg 6.1 (which deals with lateral transfers) does give clear insight into the factors that are considered, both in making these allocations and in considering appeals against the allocation:
"In coming to its decision the Committee will have regard to any representations made by any party, the distance to be travelled by any Club to be moved compared to the distance travelled in the Playing Season prior to movement; the financial impact on the Club to be moved, the frequency with which the Club has been moved in the past; the number of Clubs both in the division to which the Club is to be moved and in the division from which the Club is moved, and any other matter that it considers to be relevant."

Clearly, therefore, any representations from the club's league and the financial impact, including from player recruitment, ARE taken into account by the FA - if not sufficiently within the initial placement of the club, then certainly on appeal. Furthermore, appeals have not "been proven in the past to be a waste of time and money", as illustrated by the successful appeals lodged by the likes of Didcot and Hashtag against their respective placements last summer.


Fleet Town, Marlow and Ware may consider that the FALC pay little or no attention to how often a club has been moved in the recent past.


paulh66
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Re: [hawkwind] Non League Projections 2019/20 or Reply Privately

Who knows. But, at the very least, Fleet, Marlow and Ware ought to have been made aware of why their appeals failed, and which criteria outweighed that particular one.


borninchesham
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Re: [mick] Non League Projections 2019/20 or Reply Privately


In Reply To

In Reply To
Which is fine, Windy if Knaresborough's players all live in Knaresborough and the vicinity - but if they recruit in the Leeds/Bradford conurbation, then this changes the logic


To the spreadsheet warriors all that matters is where a club is based. The fact that the local population cannot provide the number of players of the required standard for a particular level, hence they must recruit from larger conurbations, is of no relevance. Their spreadsheets tell them that as club x is xx miles from club y (the furthest away in an adjacent league) a transfer will cause no problems at all. The warriors, of course, are highly unlikely to have set foot in the places whose clubs they think should be reallocated, probably not even within 50 miles of them, but that won't matter.

Unfortunately, I am not talking about spreadsheet warriors on internet fora, who can safely be ignored, but those in positions where actual decisions are made which affect the wellbeing (or otherwise) of real football clubs.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
One reason that they can't take into account the area of rercruitment is that three months later, when the manager is dismissed, the new manager will recruit from a different area!
What I would agree with is that late transfers, after the constiturions have been announced, should take this into consideration as signings have been based upon the geography involved.



wazzafan
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Re: [Sarumio] Non League Projections 2019/20 or Reply Privately

You make some valid points. I can certainly get behind some of what you've said. I sadly believe as I'm sure you do as well, as I've not read any announcement on it, and if Stafford Town is anything to go by from last season. Your proposal isn't going to happen.

I can however get behind your reasoning about the the bottom placed club being relegated wherever, and I've made these changes on the spreadsheet. I've reprieved the 19th placed clubs in NL1, NWCFL and NCEL and relegated the 20th placed teams in the West Midlands, East Midlands, and Western Premier.

Step 6 does look a bit of a mess at the moment, It'll become clearer once we know the step 7 applicants.



Non League Projections - 2018/19: http://goo.gl/5UvkvE

Step 1: http://goo.gl/9QipfY
Step 2: http://goo.gl/VoE1oY
Step 3: http://goo.gl/Ru3jUk
Step 4: http://goo.gl/QHVmDA
Step 5: http://goo.gl/VrnrYg
Step 6: http://goo.gl/Mk86of


steveking
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Re: [paulh66] Non League Projections 2019/20 or Reply Privately


In Reply To
Who knows. But, at the very least, Fleet, Marlow and Ware ought to have been made aware of why their appeals failed, and which criteria outweighed that particular one.

To be clear, Ware never appealed against their move to the Southern for 2015/6 nor their move back to the Isthmian the following season. I think we weighed it all up and didn't see much difference travel wise.


paulh66
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Re: [steveking] Non League Projections 2019/20 or Reply Privately


In Reply To

In Reply To
Who knows. But, at the very least, Fleet, Marlow and Ware ought to have been made aware of why their appeals failed, and which criteria outweighed that particular one.

To be clear, Ware never appealed against their move to the Southern for 2015/6 nor their move back to the Isthmian the following season. I think we weighed it all up and didn't see much difference travel wise.


Ok thanks, from hawkwind's post I just assumed these three clubs had but, for Ware at least, placement wasn't really much of an issue in the first place.


oftenscore6
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Re: [windydcfc] Non League Projections 2019/20 or Reply Privately


In Reply To

In Reply To
It comes down to where you think the base of the "perfect pyramid" should be.

Above this, all decisions are national, points per game should rule the roost (as the fairest if not best way to do things, as inter-league play offs for relegation are not something under consideration). This means any club on any boundary can be shifted to a neighbouring league. Below this, it is regional - so in one region an abysmal club can be spared the drop, which a much better club in another area gets relegated.
My view is that a hybrid version is required. In most of the country, including the Hellenic League step 6 is pooled, but some (I think two) areas are ring fenced. The South West Peninsular league should not stretch outside Devon (at least by more than a few miles), while the Northern League requires a Southern limit. No current Northern League club should ever be considered as a potential member of the Northern Counties (East) and only Pickering are eligible to move the other way.



Pickering are at step 4 now. I checked Knaresborough’s mileage, if they are laterally transferred to the NL at the end of the season. It’s actually not too bad compared to this season in the NCEL. If Harrogate RA are relegated this season(which looks likely). Then Knaresborough closest clubs are Northallerton & Garforth(the southern most NL club & the projected next most northerly NCEL club)& they sit almost halfway between them. It’s only 94 miles to Ashington & 74 miles to Forest Town(AFC Mansfield, if they are relegated).

Knaresborough might be possible to move although if there's a step 5 East Midlands league coming, some of the southerly NCEL clubs might fall into that and reduce their distances in staying in NCEP. But they might themselves get promoted and then what are you left with to pool someone into NL1? The problem is the step 6 divisions are not spread evenly to start with, so NL1 has only a tiny of amount of step 5/6 teams outside the Northern league that it makes any sense to allocate to. Maybe the answer is to form 2 NL2 divisions of 14 like the Hellenic, that'd need another 10 teams or so. Maybe include new groundsharers, reserves and some derogation on not meeting the grade currently, as happened in the South East...



-----------------------------------------------
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windydcfc
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Re: [oftenscore6] Non League Projections 2019/20 or Reply Privately


In Reply To

In Reply To

In Reply To
It comes down to where you think the base of the "perfect pyramid" should be.

Above this, all decisions are national, points per game should rule the roost (as the fairest if not best way to do things, as inter-league play offs for relegation are not something under consideration). This means any club on any boundary can be shifted to a neighbouring league. Below this, it is regional - so in one region an abysmal club can be spared the drop, which a much better club in another area gets relegated.
My view is that a hybrid version is required. In most of the country, including the Hellenic League step 6 is pooled, but some (I think two) areas are ring fenced. The South West Peninsular league should not stretch outside Devon (at least by more than a few miles), while the Northern League requires a Southern limit. No current Northern League club should ever be considered as a potential member of the Northern Counties (East) and only Pickering are eligible to move the other way.



Pickering are at step 4 now. I checked Knaresborough’s mileage, if they are laterally transferred to the NL at the end of the season. It’s actually not too bad compared to this season in the NCEL. If Harrogate RA are relegated this season(which looks likely). Then Knaresborough closest clubs are Northallerton & Garforth(the southern most NL club & the projected next most northerly NCEL club)& they sit almost halfway between them. It’s only 94 miles to Ashington & 74 miles to Forest Town(AFC Mansfield, if they are relegated).

Knaresborough might be possible to move although if there's a step 5 East Midlands league coming, some of the southerly NCEL clubs might fall into that and reduce their distances in staying in NCEP. But they might themselves get promoted and then what are you left with to pool someone into NL1? The problem is the step 6 divisions are not spread evenly to start with, so NL1 has only a tiny of amount of step 5/6 teams outside the Northern league that it makes any sense to allocate to. Maybe the answer is to form 2 NL2 divisions of 14 like the Hellenic, that'd need another 10 teams or so. Maybe include new groundsharers, reserves and some derogation on not meeting the grade currently, as happened in the South East...



I think the biggest issue for the Northern League, will be the creation of the new step 4 league. How many NL1 will be promoted into this league? If they promote 8 clubs(for example), will they then promote 8 clubs from the NL2? How many clubs will the FALC want in the NL2? If they want to run with 18 clubs for example. Will they then cherry pick 6 clubs from the 3 feeder leagues? What will then be left of those feeder leagues(because 2 of the 3 feeder leagues are struggling)?
For what its worth, I think the FA will create a new step 5 league in the West Midlands(part of the NWCL1S & the WMRL Prem area).


(This post was edited by windydcfc on Dec 20, 2018, 1:30 PM)


windydcfc
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Re: [wazzafan] Non League Projections 2019/20 or Reply Privately

Looking at the projection for step 5. I was wondering which SSML Prem club, would be closest to the ESL?
I was wondering if it’s more likely that Clacton will remain in the ECL, then an SSML side moved to the ESL, Newport Pagnell Town moved to the SSML & Eynesbury remains in the UCL. I just think the difference between an SSML club being moved & the distance they will have to travel. Has got to be less than what Eynesbury would have to face?
*I’ve had a look & I believe its Hadley FC & they’re 14miles from Enfield’s ground(I believe this is the closest ESL club). Which is a lot closer than anything that Eynesbury would have to face.
**If Cockfosters stay up, they’re less than 6 miles from Enfields ground


(This post was edited by windydcfc on Dec 20, 2018, 8:10 PM)


blackdouglas
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Re: [wazzafan] Non League Projections 2019/20 or Reply Privately

I've been looking at your Step 4 in the North. Instead of switching Brighouse Town from East to West could it not be more prudent to move Wisbech from NPL1(E) to SL1(C) and place either the relegated Halesowen Town (who are moving divisions anyway) or Sutton Coldfield into NPL1(W), providing Chasetown with at least one half-decent local derby.



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windydcfc
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Re: [blackdouglas] Non League Projections 2019/20 or Reply Privately

Rugby Borough & Saffron Dynamo from the LSL have both applied for promotion


jrev61
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Re: [windydcfc] Non League Projections 2019/20 or Reply Privately


In Reply To
Rugby Borough & Saffron Dynamo from the LSL have both applied for promotion



I assume Rugby Borough will be groundsharing at Rugby Town as a 3G cage, with only one side for spectators and no seats and a small bit of cover will not be good enough for step 6 football.



jrev61


windydcfc
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Re: [jrev61] Non League Projections 2019/20 or Reply Privately


In Reply To

In Reply To
Rugby Borough & Saffron Dynamo from the LSL have both applied for promotion



I assume Rugby Borough will be groundsharing at Rugby Town as a 3G cage, with only one side for spectators and no seats and a small bit of cover will not be good enough for step 6 football.



I believe the application is for the 3G cage(I maybe wrong). I was told, that their ground isn’t too much different than Aylestone Parks ground & they play at step 6.


kirby knitters
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Re: [windydcfc] Non League Projections 2019/20 or Reply Privately

AP have a proper ground with a stand and cover and have only used the 3G pitch on a couple of occasions for step 6 football.


jrev61
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Re: [kirby knitters] Non League Projections 2019/20 or Reply Privately


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AP have a proper ground with a stand and cover and have only used the 3G pitch on a couple of occasions for step 6 football.


Even the 3G pitch at Aylestone Park is better than Rugby Borough as it has a seated stand.



jrev61


windydcfc
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Re: [kirby knitters] Non League Projections 2019/20 or Reply Privately


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AP have a proper ground with a stand and cover and have only used the 3G pitch on a couple of occasions for step 6 football.



Thanks for clarifying that KK. If they do use the 3G cage & changes aren’t made to it. Then they’ll fail the ground grading.


kirby knitters
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Re: [jrev61] Non League Projections 2019/20 or Reply Privately


In Reply To

In Reply To
AP have a proper ground with a stand and cover and have only used the 3G pitch on a couple of occasions for step 6 football.


Even the 3G pitch at Aylestone Park is better than Rugby Borough as it has a seated stand.



----------------
----------------
Rugby Borough would have played in the cage at AP when facing a couple of clubs in the LSL but when AP first team used it in the EMCL (main pitch was frozen) they needed permission from the opposition to play in it.



windydcfc
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Re: [kirby knitters] Non League Projections 2019/20 or Reply Privately

Wootton Blue Cross have decided not to apply this season. But the ambitions is to do next season. I see Rob’s(wazzafan) has got Woodford Utd promoted from the Northants Comb. They told me that they had no intention of applying for promotion.
Redcar Town won’t be applying this season, but they have started the requisite improvements needed & will apply next season. I know Boro Rangers have been looking at lots of options(ground wise & I’m not sure whether they’ve been successful).


(This post was edited by windydcfc on Dec 23, 2018, 3:52 PM)


cornerflag
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Re: [kirby knitters] Non League Projections 2019/20 or Reply Privately

That's correct KK, AP have only used the 3G when the main pitch is been ruled out to adverse weather, permission from The EMCFL (last season) and the opposition agreeing to play on it required.
It doesn't grade for Step 6 football.


pottersbarbee
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Re: [windydcfc] Non League Projections 2019/20 or Reply Privately


In Reply To
Looking at the projection for step 5. I was wondering which SSML Prem club, would be closest to the ESL?
I was wondering if it’s more likely that Clacton will remain in the ECL, then an SSML side moved to the ESL, Newport Pagnell Town moved to the SSML & Eynesbury remains in the UCL. I just think the difference between an SSML club being moved & the distance they will have to travel. Has got to be less than what Eynesbury would have to face?
*I’ve had a look & I believe its Hadley FC & they’re 14miles from Enfield’s ground(I believe this is the closest ESL club). Which is a lot closer than anything that Eynesbury would have to face.
**If Cockfosters stay up, they’re less than 6 miles from Enfields ground

Enfield play at Harlow which is 22 miles from Fosters and 26 from Hadley! Hoddesdon and ST Margs are nearer though!


A.G.Ricer
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Re: [jrev61] Non League Projections 2019/20 or Reply Privately


In Reply To

In Reply To
Rugby Borough & Saffron Dynamo from the LSL have both applied for promotion



I assume Rugby Borough will be groundsharing at Rugby Town as a 3G cage, with only one side for spectators and no seats and a small bit of cover will not be good enough for step 6 football.


Rugby Town Juniors (of which Rugby Borough are an adjunct) have applied for planning permission to erect a 50 seater stand behind the goal at the north end of the pitch. This end is caged and has banners all over it so presently impossible to view the game from. Presumably they will have to take the cage down at that end. The view from this proposed stand is going to be poor so, I imagine , it's more to do with having a ground grading than providing usable facilities


windydcfc
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Re: [A.G.Ricer] Non League Projections 2019/20 or Reply Privately


In Reply To

In Reply To

In Reply To
Rugby Borough & Saffron Dynamo from the LSL have both applied for promotion



I assume Rugby Borough will be groundsharing at Rugby Town as a 3G cage, with only one side for spectators and no seats and a small bit of cover will not be good enough for step 6 football.


Rugby Town Juniors (of which Rugby Borough are an adjunct) have applied for planning permission to erect a 50 seater stand behind the goal at the north end of the pitch. This end is caged and has banners all over it so presently impossible to view the game from. Presumably they will have to take the cage down at that end. The view from this proposed stand is going to be poor so, I imagine , it's more to do with having a ground grading than providing usable facilities



I’ been told that FC GNG & FC Khalsa GAD have also applied


kirby knitters
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Re: [windydcfc] Non League Projections 2019/20 or Reply Privately

Very strange as Khalsa left Judge Meadow CC to use the 3G facilities at Aylestone Park FC which a previous poster recently stated are not up to step 6 requirements. They may have a plan to move on to the main pitch of course should promotion be achieved but wonder if they have discussed such a plan with AP.


KingT
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Re: [kirby knitters] Non League Projections 2019/20 or Reply Privately

Infinity, Fleetlands and Stockbridge have been confirmed as the applicants from the Hampshire Premier League. Stockbridge achieved the grading last year so shouldn’t be an issue, Infinity has a fairly small pitch and doesn’t have lights or a barrier last I saw and Fleetlands I believe are limited in terms of lights because of the military facility next door. Anybody know of potential ground development plans at Infinity or Fleetlands?


windydcfc
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Re: [KingT] Non League Projections 2019/20 or Reply Privately


In Reply To
Infinity, Fleetlands and Stockbridge have been confirmed as the applicants from the Hampshire Premier League. Stockbridge achieved the grading last year so shouldn’t be an issue, Infinity has a fairly small pitch and doesn’t have lights or a barrier last I saw and Fleetlands I believe are limited in terms of lights because of the military facility next door. Anybody know of potential ground development plans at Infinity or Fleetlands?



Infinity told me in December that they were giving themselves enough time to get the required jobs done.


Jimbo
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Re: [windydcfc] Non League Projections 2019/20 or Reply Privately

Whilst I understand that some of the clubs shown as provisionally promoted from Step 7 to 6 might be placeholders, would anybody be able to provide an update on the status (if any) of the sides displayed within the two NWCFL divisions? Specifically, Blackpool Wren Rovers, Foley Meir, Golcar United, Ilkley Town, Pilkington and Waterloo Dock. Thanks!


windydcfc
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Re: [Jimbo] Non League Projections 2019/20 or Reply Privately


In Reply To
Whilst I understand that some of the clubs shown as provisionally promoted from Step 7 to 6 might be placeholders, would anybody be able to provide an update on the status (if any) of the sides displayed within the two NWCFL divisions? Specifically, Blackpool Wren Rovers, Foley Meir, Golcar United, Ilkley Town, Pilkington and Waterloo Dock. Thanks!



The FA should release the step 7 applicants list in the next couple of weeks. Blackpool WR haven’t applied.


Deaf Leopard
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Re: [windydcfc] Non League Projections 2019/20 or Reply Privately

Rayleigh look set to apply from the Olympian. Floodlights soon to be going in, just as they build a housing estate almost right next to it.


Rushcliffe
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Re: [Deaf Leopard] Non League Projections 2019/20 or Reply Privately

Reading this thread with a lot of interest Re: lateral movements etc. all hypothetical reasoning though at the moment.
Our newly formed club Rushcliffe FC will Join the Notts Senior League next season (actually playing our first friendly on Jan 19th) We are very much a Nottingham based club, Rushcliffe is the borough council in which Nottingham Forest are based etc... but we our home ground is on the very southernmost tip of the borough, in a village called East leake, which is actually considered as part of Loughborough in terms of postcode etc, all our players are Nottingham players.
Should we be successful, which is obviously our plan to be, I do wonder what may happen once we eventually reach step 7 (the NSL 2 which we will start off at is in effect step 9) I do wonder what the chances are if us being laterally moved to the Leicester senior league, and likewise further on from that if we were to be playing in step 6 would we find ourselves in the east midlands counties league, the midlands league or maybe the united counties league.
To me our ground location actually may put us in an awkward position upon any success.
Like I said its all hypothetical currently but as a club we like to plan ahead and this is certainly something I have wondered about.
To me we are a Nottingham club, simple as that, not Leicester. A move to the LSL would not be at all in our favour.


AndyE
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Re: [Rushcliffe] Non League Projections 2019/20 or Reply Privately

If you want the football authorities to treat you strictly as a Nottingham club then play in Nottingham!

On the other hand, Nottingham already has lots of teams at Step 6 and 7 level, and you have to compete with them for players. East Leake is certainly big enough to support a team at Step 7, and at the moment anyone from East Leake who plays serious football probably does it in either Nottingham or Loughborough. If you establish yourselves as East Leake's team, you might start to attract players from south of Nottingham.

Which direction you'd be sent in at the higher levels is impossible to guess because it depends on a thousand things. But Leicester isn't very much further than Nottingham, and the longest away trip based on the current Step 7 divisions is Southwell in Notts and Rugby in Leics. Having teams from Rugby in a Leicestershire league probably won't become a regular thing, but if it does, yes it's further than Southwell but the M1 is quite convenient.

For the moment though, having to find the players to play in a Step 7 league in Leicestershire is a nice problem to have in the future. Win your Step 9 league first!


Rushcliffe
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Re: [AndyE] Non League Projections 2019/20 or Reply Privately


In Reply To
If you want the football authorities to treat you strictly as a Nottingham club then play in Nottingham!

On the other hand, Nottingham already has lots of teams at Step 6 and 7 level, and you have to compete with them for players. East Leake is certainly big enough to support a team at Step 7, and at the moment anyone from East Leake who plays serious football probably does it in either Nottingham or Loughborough. If you establish yourselves as East Leake's team, you might start to attract players from south of Nottingham.

Which direction you'd be sent in at the higher levels is impossible to guess because it depends on a thousand things. But Leicester isn't very much further than Nottingham, and the longest away trip based on the current Step 7 divisions is Southwell in Notts and Rugby in Leics. Having teams from Rugby in a Leicestershire league probably won't become a regular thing, but if it does, yes it's further than Southwell but the M1 is quite convenient.

For the moment though, having to find the players to play in a Step 7 league in Leicestershire is a nice problem to have in the future. Win your Step 9 league first!


Completely agree that we may be years and years from step 7. The Notts senior League is a strong league and also as things stand our ground would only take us as far as step 7 anyway. But to me its nice to have targets, and while our first target is to complete our first season and not end up being the whipping boys its nice to look at what the future could hold too.

One thing to clarify though is you say if we want to be treated as a Nottingham club then play in Nottingham.. Rushcliffe is definitely in Nottingham, with Nottingham Forest being in the same council area of Rushcliffe and no one would ever say they aren't from Nottingham. Its our Postcode starting with LE rather than NG that may one day lead to problems, despite us being 8 miles from Nottingham city centre and 14 miles from Leicester city centre. but 4.5 miles from Loughborough (which is obviously Leicestershire) think it leaves us in a funny place geographically.
I guess we will just worry about that if we get that far haha
Long way to go til then.


(This post was edited by Rushcliffe on Jan 5, 2019, 1:56 AM)


shimtoan
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Re: [Rushcliffe] Non League Projections 2019/20 or Reply Privately

I know you mention East Leake being in the same Council as Nottingham Forest play in, but Forest played in what is now the City for the first 43 years of their existence, and the City Ground was part of the City until 1925.

East Leake is very much not Nottingham, much as West Bridgford doesn't consider itself as such.

East Leake had a club until about 15 years ago, East Leake Athletic, and they were in the NSL between 1995/96 and 2003/04. I'm not sure whereabouts they played, but it was possibly at the Rugby Club.

Would you be playing at the Rugby Club, or the Academy/Leisure Centre, or elsewhere entirely?



unless stated, all views are my own and are not the views of any other person, club, or organisation

(This post was edited by shimtoan on Jan 5, 2019, 3:07 AM)


Rushcliffe
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Re: [shimtoan] Non League Projections 2019/20 or Reply Privately

Costock Road which is where there was once a rugby club.

Maybe im looking at it from my own point of view as im originally from Clifton, which is part of Nottingham City, yet east leake is only 5 mins up the road. Our players are definitely south Notts, a lot of Clifton, some east leake, some Ruddington and dotted around various south Notts places anywhere between East leake and the Meadows. Our manager joined from Clipstone and brought half a dozen lads from up that sort of way too. Leicester is definitely not our plan, but like I said will worry about that if we get to that point.


rambler77
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Re: [Rushcliffe] Non League Projections 2019/20 or Reply Privately


In Reply To
Costock Road which is where there was once a rugby club.

In recent years sides playing out of East Leake play and haved played in the North Leicestershire League. Currently there is East Leake Robins in division 1.

An anomoly I know of is that teams from East Leake and Sutton Bonington, which is also in Nottinghamshire compete in the Leicestershire & Rutland FA County Cups. I did ask the manager of SB a couple of years ago why this was the case, and he had no idea and that is just the way it is.



http://rambler77.zenfolio.com/


Rushcliffe
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Re: [rambler77] Non League Projections 2019/20 or Reply Privately

I think that's likely down to what county FA they affiliate with. Those who have maybe grown up around Loughborough etc might feel more comfortable as Leicestershire and thus register as a new club with Leicestershire FA and therfore into the Leicestershire county cup.

The opposite end of Notts youve got Worksop who im fairly certain are affiliated to sheffield rather than Notts and therefore Worksop based clubs tend to be in the Sheffield county cup


petermiller36
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Re: [Rushcliffe] Non League Projections 2019/20 or Reply Privately

I've now updated my document which hopefully puts a load of this season's tables and rules in one place. I'm confident with everything from Step 3 down to the promotion of Step 5, but below that it's too sketchy. Any help greatly appreciated. http://bit.ly/PPG1819



Steps 4-7 Relegation and Promotion document:
http://bit.ly/PPG1819


windydcfc
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Jan 7, 2019, 7:21 PM

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Re: [wazzafan] Non League Projections 2019/20 or Reply Privately

There’s a section about Brackley Town Saints. In an article in the ‘Football in Bracknell’. In an interview with the club manager Gordon Kille. He was asked if the club can go up & his answer was “The simple answer is yes. We are a separate club to Brackley Town. Although many links are shared with them, we are as far as the FA are concerned, and they’re the ones that matter, a separate entity and eligible for promotion.” https://www.footballinbracknell.co.uk/...tion-and-relegation/


(This post was edited by windydcfc on Jan 7, 2019, 7:44 PM)


Unicorn
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Re: [windydcfc] Non League Projections 2019/20 or Reply Privately


In Reply To
There’s a section about Brackley Town Saints. In an article in the ‘Football in Bracknell’. In an interview with the club manager Gordon Kille. He was asked if the club can go up & his answer was “The simple answer is yes. We are a separate club to Brackley Town. Although many links are shared with them, we are as far as the FA are concerned, and they’re the ones that matter, a separate entity and eligible for promotion.” https://www.footballinbracknell.co.uk/...tion-and-relegation/


Interesting but if i were in his position i would not be that confident about anything.
Also it states someones view that step 7 clubs do not have to apply for promotion this year.
Is that right? I thought they did have to apply.


Sarumio
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Re: [windydcfc] Non League Projections 2019/20 or Reply Privately


In Reply To

In Reply To
Whilst I understand that some of the clubs shown as provisionally promoted from Step 7 to 6 might be placeholders, would anybody be able to provide an update on the status (if any) of the sides displayed within the two NWCFL divisions? Specifically, Blackpool Wren Rovers, Foley Meir, Golcar United, Ilkley Town, Pilkington and Waterloo Dock. Thanks!



The FA should release the step 7 applicants list in the next couple of weeks. Blackpool WR haven’t applied.


Any particular reason why Blackpool Rovers refuse to apply? They've played in the NWCL before, they have the ground (I presume it wouldn't need much work), they've not finished outside the top two in the West Lancs League since 2007 and the NWCL's second tier is now regionalised, so their travelling would be a lot less and they'd not face any trips to Cheshire of Merseyside.

So I assume they're just happy Billy Big Bollocks in a now pretty weak Step 7 division?

Floundering in a division, and refusing to Step up year on year usually ends in disaster!


paulh66
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Re: [Sarumio] Non League Projections 2019/20 or Reply Privately

 
Any particular reason why Blackpool Rovers refuse to apply? They've played in the NWCL before, they have the ground (I presume it wouldn't need much work), they've not finished outside the top two in the West Lancs League since 2007 and the NWCL's second tier is now regionalised, so their travelling would be a lot less and they'd not face any trips to Cheshire of Merseyside.

So I assume they're just happy Billy Big Bollocks in a now pretty weak Step 7 division?

Floundering in a division, and refusing to Step up year on year usually ends in disaster!


I don't follow step 7 or lower a great deal these days so I'm not disputing you, but can you give us a few examples of these disasters you refer to? Just seems odd to suggest that a club that hasn't finished outside the top 2 for eleven years is floundering and heading for disaster.

Btw there are three Merseyside clubs in the NWC Div 1 North.


Sarumio
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Re: [paulh66] Non League Projections 2019/20 or Reply Privately


In Reply To
Any particular reason why Blackpool Rovers refuse to apply? They've played in the NWCL before, they have the ground (I presume it wouldn't need much work), they've not finished outside the top two in the West Lancs League since 2007 and the NWCL's second tier is now regionalised, so their travelling would be a lot less and they'd not face any trips to Cheshire of Merseyside.

So I assume they're just happy Billy Big Bollocks in a now pretty weak Step 7 division?

Floundering in a division, and refusing to Step up year on year usually ends in disaster!


I don't follow step 7 or lower a great deal these days so I'm not disputing you, but can you give us a few examples of these disasters you refer to? Just seems odd to suggest that a club that hasn't finished outside the top 2 for eleven years is floundering and heading for disaster.

Btw there are three Merseyside clubs in the NWC Div 1 North.


It happens all the time.I'm not saying it will happen to Blacpool Rovers but its a risk if they continue on this rut.

Some examples. Bishop Sutton won the Western League, didn't go up, relegated a year later as players left, same when Corsham Town won the league. Countless UCL Prem winners won the league, didn't or couldn't go up and lost their teams as a result, and ended up getting relegated to Div One a few seasons later (Long Buckby, S&L Corby, Stotfold).

Winterton Rangers experienced the same when they refused to go up to the NPL after winning the NCEL.

These are all of off the top of my head and not even looking into the triumphs and woes of Step 7 clubs that refuse to budge - I am sure there are loads that have suffered due to the players wanting more/progress but the people running the club stubbornly refusing to allow it to go up, for whatever reason, good or bad/scared!

Its also the reason Reading YMCA have folded this season. Maybe its why we lost Aigburth Peoples Hall of the Liverpool Premier League?? A dominant force for years but couldn't develop their ground. Did West Yorks side Bardsey go for s similar reason after years of league and local cup success but no prospect to progress beyond where they'd reached?

Otterbourne in Hampshire are another one - finished 3rd and 2nd in their final two season, and then folded...

I'm not sure of the reasons for any of these closures but these are all clubs that were dominant for years, and were at the top of their game (or at leats a season or two after winning their most recent title) when they decided to close their doors and fold...


All I am saying is now that the West Lancs League is weakening, and now that the NCWL Div One is regionalised, thus reducing any travel increase a step up would bring, compared to before, that if they continue to stagnate at Step 7, eventually they will struggle to attract players, when the club's complete lack of ambition is overtaken by the local players realising the step up to NWCL football not being such a huge geographical step as it was 5 years ago!


windydcfc
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Re: [Sarumio] Non League Projections 2019/20 or Reply Privately


In Reply To

In Reply To
Any particular reason why Blackpool Rovers refuse to apply? They've played in the NWCL before, they have the ground (I presume it wouldn't need much work), they've not finished outside the top two in the West Lancs League since 2007 and the NWCL's second tier is now regionalised, so their travelling would be a lot less and they'd not face any trips to Cheshire of Merseyside.

So I assume they're just happy Billy Big Bollocks in a now pretty weak Step 7 division?

Floundering in a division, and refusing to Step up year on year usually ends in disaster!


I don't follow step 7 or lower a great deal these days so I'm not disputing you, but can you give us a few examples of these disasters you refer to? Just seems odd to suggest that a club that hasn't finished outside the top 2 for eleven years is floundering and heading for disaster.

Btw there are three Merseyside clubs in the NWC Div 1 North.


It happens all the time.I'm not saying it will happen to Blacpool Rovers but its a risk if they continue on this rut.

Some examples. Bishop Sutton won the Western League, didn't go up, relegated a year later as players left, same when Corsham Town won the league. Countless UCL Prem winners won the league, didn't or couldn't go up and lost their teams as a result, and ended up getting relegated to Div One a few seasons later (Long Buckby, S&L Corby, Stotfold).

Winterton Rangers experienced the same when they refused to go up to the NPL after winning the NCEL.

These are all of off the top of my head and not even looking into the triumphs and woes of Step 7 clubs that refuse to budge - I am sure there are loads that have suffered due to the players wanting more/progress but the people running the club stubbornly refusing to allow it to go up, for whatever reason, good or bad/scared!

Its also the reason Reading YMCA have folded this season. Maybe its why we lost Aigburth Peoples Hall of the Liverpool Premier League?? A dominant force for years but couldn't develop their ground. Did West Yorks side Bardsey go for s similar reason after years of league and local cup success but no prospect to progress beyond where they'd reached?

Otterbourne in Hampshire are another one - finished 3rd and 2nd in their final two season, and then folded...

I'm not sure of the reasons for any of these closures but these are all clubs that were dominant for years, and were at the top of their game (or at leats a season or two after winning their most recent title) when they decided to close their doors and fold...


All I am saying is now that the West Lancs League is weakening, and now that the NCWL Div One is regionalised, thus reducing any travel increase a step up would bring, compared to before, that if they continue to stagnate at Step 7, eventually they will struggle to attract players, when the club's complete lack of ambition is overtaken by the local players realising the step up to NWCL football not being such a huge geographical step as it was 5 years ago!



I believe Blackpool WR don’t have enough Committee members. They’ve also got to compete with other local sides to get enough fans through the gates.


kirby knitters
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Re: [windydcfc] Non League Projections 2019/20 or Reply Privately

I was recently involved with a club that had/have no committee members or fans but manage to keep their heads above water in step 5.


paulh66
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Re: [Sarumio] Non League Projections 2019/20 or Reply Privately

My comment specifically focused on step 7 and below as that's the level that's traditionally been a kind of divide between clubs and players willing to travel and those who wish to simply play in their own back yard, for all sorts of valid reasons including cost and time commitment, both on and off the pitch.

I agree the restructuring and availability of grants has made some inroads into reducing that divide but I'm not convinced that those clubs and players for whom it remains too big a cost/time commitment are, de facto, in a rut or stagnating. Indeed there are examples of clubs who felt encouraged to make that leap but quickly found it was more than they could handle and dropped back down to county level, sometimes within months e.g. Whittlesey.

At the end of the day, most county level clubs are reliant on a handful (if they're lucky) of volunteers and their very existence depends largely on their enthusiasm. But these days such enthusiasm cannot be taken for granted, likewise developing a succession line of enthusiastic volunteers, and these seem to be amongst the biggest challenges facing step 7 clubs simply to survive. To then consider moving up to the next level relies not only on enthusiasm but also an ability to raise funds, develop infrastructure and commit greater time. Although more are going for it these days, it's still far too big a burden for the majority of step 7 clubs to take on, even if they were tempted to in the first place, so I'm not at all convinced their inability to do so is contributing to their demise.


Sarumio
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Re: [paulh66] Non League Projections 2019/20 or Reply Privately


In Reply To
My comment specifically focused on step 7 and below as that's the level that's traditionally been a kind of divide between clubs and players willing to travel and those who wish to simply play in their own back yard, for all sorts of valid reasons including cost and time commitment, both on and off the pitch.

I agree the restructuring and availability of grants has made some inroads into reducing that divide but I'm not convinced that those clubs and players for whom it remains too big a cost/time commitment are, de facto, in a rut or stagnating. Indeed there are examples of clubs who felt encouraged to make that leap but quickly found it was more than they could handle and dropped back down to county level, sometimes within months e.g. Whittlesey.

At the end of the day, most county level clubs are reliant on a handful (if they're lucky) of volunteers and their very existence depends largely on their enthusiasm. But these days such enthusiasm cannot be taken for granted, likewise developing a succession line of enthusiastic volunteers, and these seem to be amongst the biggest challenges facing step 7 clubs simply to survive. To then consider moving up to the next level relies not only on enthusiasm but also an ability to raise funds, develop infrastructure and commit greater time. Although more are going for it these days, it's still far too big a burden for the majority of step 7 clubs to take on, even if they were tempted to in the first place, so I'm not at all convinced their inability to do so is contributing to their demise.


I think we both raise valid points and its a fine line.

I guess we shall see!

All I will say is, there are far more examples of clubs packing it in after years of sustained success, presumably their demise at least in part linked to the club’s refusal or in most cases inability, (due to their ground) to step up to the next rung on the ladder, than there are examples of clubs continuing to thrive in a division that they won’t or can’t move up from. Even at Step 7.

Another example – look at the turnaround in fortunes for Carharrack in the Cornwall Combination in the last 3 years!

There are others that can’t or won’t move up from Step 7 who are consistently doing well - Gas Recreation in the Essex & Suffolk Border League spring to mind, as do Waterloo Dock in the Liverpool Prem, Carlton Athletic and Beeston St Anthony’s in the West Yorks League and even Hamworthy Recreation in the Dorset Premier League.

I guess we shall see where they all are in 5 years time! My guess is they’ve started looking into ground shares in order to move up (I think Waterloo Dock are doing that now already!), or a couple will have started struggling or be gone altogether, sadly.

And you state you don’t believe Blackpool Wren Rovers are stagnating – finishing in the top two 11 years running without any inclination to move up (especially when it’s not your ground OR horrendous travelling distances at the next level up or coming from a tiny little village, preventing you from doing so) is the very definition of stagnation.

Also you have to wonder if their continued membership of the West Lancs Premier Division is beneficial to other member clubs who might otherwise be winning the league or finishing runners up if this relative giant was blocking them year after year…

Just saying…


paulh66
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Re: [Sarumio] Non League Projections 2019/20 or Reply Privately

The word stagnation has negative connotations. There is nothing negative about a club not wishing to overstretch itself - quite the opposite, it's responsible and, as Wren's record since leaving the NWC 20 years ago has shown, sustainable. And they're not hampering anyone else's ambitions to move up, as the likes of Charnock, Garstang and Longridge have shown. Others will probably follow.

Waterloo Dock are reportedly tempted to move up but they already share with Lower Breck so the incremental costs of doing so will be much reduced.

From my own neck of the woods, traditional county league powerhouses like Lairds and Vauxhall obviously have moved up, not without taking their time or giving it great thought, and not without some considerable hardship along the way (Lairds have since taken a two division drop and Vauxhalls dropped from step 2 to step 7, both because of the sustainability issue). Other powerhouses like Poulton Vics, St Dominics, Earle etc have long gone, but this was nothing to do with not wanting to progress up the pyramid. The Dock might have gone likewise were it not for the new facility they now share, a hundred yards or so across the field from their spiritual home at the now-shut Dockers Club.

The point is, it's volunteer enthusiasm and the availability and quality of grass root facilities that are amongst the key factors to the sustainability of step 7 clubs, not some perceived lack of ambition - ambition which, in itself, would threaten the future of the club rather than ensure its sustainability. I doubt there are many, if any, step 7 clubs whose demise resulted, either directly or indirectly, from their unwillingness to move up the pyramid.

As for Blackpool Wren Rovers, in the absence of any evidence to the contrary, you've got to trust that their officials have a very clear understanding of what's in the club's best interests for both the short and long term, and are acting accordingly.


Richard Rundle
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Jan 9, 2019, 3:42 PM

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Re: [Sarumio] Non League Projections 2019/20 or Reply Privately

Carharrack's downturn in fortunes is nothing do with "stagnation" because they haven't gone up. The manager and most of the players left to go to another club who were waving money at them, a team in the same division.

I believe the club do want to move up, but when the funds allow. They've been upgrading their lovely little ground in pieces over the last few years but won't bankrupt the club just to make a point.


oftenscore6
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Re: [Sarumio] Non League Projections 2019/20 or Reply Privately

I'd venture Wren Rovers staying at the same level they've been playing at successfully for the last 20 years, 11 of it in the top 2, is less risky than taking promotion to a level of increased travelling (even if better than before this season) and a need to meet higher ground standards. They will have met the standards 20 years ago but things change and largely in ground requirements, have increased. It might be they'd have work on dressing rooms to do if they moved up, even if the spectator facilities are already perfectly good (and well worth a visit).
I suspect that with AFC Blackpool and Squires Gate so close (next door for the latter), if a player wants to play NWCFL, he can choose to do so very easily. Wren Rovers may actually be able to attract players who don't want to travel as far, or play as many midweek games later in the evening
The simple way for the FA to remove any potential blocking aspect would be to promote the highest applicant from the division, should they still wish to move up, regardless of what position that is in the division (unless relegation spot, I guess).



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Jimbo
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Jan 9, 2019, 5:30 PM

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Re: [paulh66] Non League Projections 2019/20 or Reply Privately


In Reply To
Waterloo Dock are reportedly tempted to move up but they already share with Lower Breck so the incremental costs of doing so will be much reduced.


This would seem like as good a time as any for them to make the jump. Whilst their esteemed position in the local amateur game looks to form a pretty large part of their identity, the Liverpool County Premier is weakening season-on-season and a certain lack of depth is starting to become apparent.

Over on the Wirral, it is good to see that Ashville are making plans. They seem to have the foundations in place, having also taken things slowly. If they are successful in moving up, that would surely make them the first Wallasey side in a very long while to play above county level.


wazzafan
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Re: [Jimbo] Non League Projections 2019/20 or Reply Privately

Spreadsheet & Maps updated. Apologies for the delay I've had Work, Family & Holiday commitments.



Non League Projections - 2018/19: http://goo.gl/5UvkvE

Step 1: http://goo.gl/9QipfY
Step 2: http://goo.gl/VoE1oY
Step 3: http://goo.gl/Ru3jUk
Step 4: http://goo.gl/QHVmDA
Step 5: http://goo.gl/VrnrYg
Step 6: http://goo.gl/Mk86of


BillShep
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Re: [wazzafan] Non League Projections 2019/20 or Reply Privately

Evening Wazza,

Enjoy your posts and the charts. I'm a bit confused about your selections in the NWCFL though. The Premier has one up, hopefully City of Liverpool and one coming down from above, looking like Skelmersdale United.
The confusion is the teams you have showing as promoted from Division 1 North and South. I am sure you are aware that this season two are relegated and there is only one up from each division with no play-offs this year.
I notice though that you have three promoted into the Premier but you only show two relegated into Division 1 North so something is amiss somewhere.



----------------------------------------------------------
North West Counties Premier Division 2018/19

City of Liverpool FC - Debut season 2016/17

48th ground watching CoLFC - J Davidson Stadium. Altrincham
Latest new ground, 76th - J Davidson Stadium, Altrincham.





windydcfc
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Jan 9, 2019, 8:03 PM

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Re: [BillShep] Non League Projections 2019/20 or Reply Privately


In Reply To
Evening Wazza,

Enjoy your posts and the charts. I'm a bit confused about your selections in the NWCFL though. The Premier has one up, hopefully City of Liverpool and one coming down from above, looking like Skelmersdale United.
The confusion is the teams you have showing as promoted from Division 1 North and South. I am sure you are aware that this season two are relegated and there is only one up from each division with no play-offs this year.
I notice though that you have three promoted into the Premier but you only show two relegated into Division 1 North so something is amiss somewhere.



This wiki page that drawoh(From this parish)has created, shows which teams are in line for promotion from each step. Initially 28 teams were guaranteed promotion from step 6. They are the 19 champions & the 9 best runners up on a ppg basis. The SWPL clubs can refuse promotion, because of there locality. So at the moment 18 champions & 10 runners up will be promoted. Thamesmead folding at step 4, increases the step 6 promotion places by 1. So 11 runners up are now in-line for promotion. The NWCL1S runners up are one of those unlucky 7 runners up. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/...awoh46/sandbox/Step6


(This post was edited by windydcfc on Jan 9, 2019, 8:05 PM)


BDA_85
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Re: [windydcfc] Non League Projections 2019/20 or Reply Privately

Talking to some Walsall Wood officials last night at their match, they seemed to indicate that they would be applying for promotion. Looks likely they will finish 2nd behind Ilkeston Town this season.


kirby knitters
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Re: [BDA_85] Non League Projections 2019/20 or Reply Privately

Looks like they will finish 2nd behind Ilkeston Town? Long long way to go before we start looking at final placements but seeing as we are then Shepshed are 3 points behind them with 3 games in hand and the can also be taken by Sphinx.


windydcfc
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Re: [BDA_85] Non League Projections 2019/20 or Reply Privately


In Reply To
Talking to some Walsall Wood officials last night at their match, they seemed to indicate that they would be applying for promotion. Looks likely they will finish 2nd behind Ilkeston Town this season.



They wouldn’t need to ‘apply for promotion’. There’s only one promotion spot per step 5 league & its compulsory promotion for the champions.


windydcfc
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Jan 10, 2019, 10:15 AM

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Re: [windydcfc] Non League Projections 2019/20 or Reply Privately

I’ve been told that the FA are having a meeting on the 16th & the step 7 promotion applicants list won’t be released until after this.


BillShep
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Jan 10, 2019, 1:11 PM

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Re: [windydcfc] Non League Projections 2019/20 or Reply Privately

Afternoon...

This wiki page that drawoh(From this parish)has created, shows which teams are in line for promotion from each step. Initially 28 teams were guaranteed promotion from step 6. They are the 19 champions & the 9 best runners up on a ppg basis. The SWPL clubs can refuse promotion, because of there locality. So at the moment 18 champions & 10 runners up will be promoted. Thamesmead folding at step 4, increases the step 6 promotion places by 1. So 11 runners up are now in-line for promotion. The NWCL1S runners up are one of those unlucky 7 runners up. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/...awoh46/sandbox/Step6

There is still something wrong though. NWCFL will promote it's Champions and will almost certainly be replaced by the bottom team in the West division above.
There are only two teams being relegated from the NWCFL Premier and only the Champions from Division North/South are being promoted this season. For this season the clubs have been told that there are not any play-offs. With only two being relegated there will also not be any PPG runner-up being promoted. The Premier Division will not have any space.

Just found this statement.
http://www.hallmarksecurityleague.com/news-articles.php?id=6827

Only North/South Champions being promoted for the time being.

My initial comment was about your projections showing three promoted but only two relegated so a team is missing somewhere.

Just looked at the Premier team by team and you have missed Silsden out.

I'm not arguing or trying to be clever with you, but like yourself, I like things to be correct and easily understood.
Keep up the good work Windy...



----------------------------------------------------------
North West Counties Premier Division 2018/19

City of Liverpool FC - Debut season 2016/17

48th ground watching CoLFC - J Davidson Stadium. Altrincham
Latest new ground, 76th - J Davidson Stadium, Altrincham.





windydcfc
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Jan 10, 2019, 1:23 PM

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Re: [BillShep] Non League Projections 2019/20 or Reply Privately


In Reply To
Afternoon...

This wiki page that drawoh(From this parish)has created, shows which teams are in line for promotion from each step. Initially 28 teams were guaranteed promotion from step 6. They are the 19 champions & the 9 best runners up on a ppg basis. The SWPL clubs can refuse promotion, because of there locality. So at the moment 18 champions & 10 runners up will be promoted. Thamesmead folding at step 4, increases the step 6 promotion places by 1. So 11 runners up are now in-line for promotion. The NWCL1S runners up are one of those unlucky 7 runners up. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/...awoh46/sandbox/Step6

There is still something wrong though. NWCFL will promote it's Champions and will almost certainly be replaced by the bottom team in the West division above.
There are only two teams being relegated from the NWCFL Premier and only the Champions from Division North/South are being promoted this season. For this season the clubs have been told that there are not any play-offs. With only two being relegated there will also not be any PPG runner-up being promoted. The Premier Division will not have any space.

Just found this statement.
http://www.hallmarksecurityleague.com/news-articles.php?id=6827

Only North/South Champions being promoted for the time being.

My initial comment was about your projections showing three promoted but only two relegated so a team is missing somewhere.

Just looked at the Premier team by team and you have missed Silsden out.

I'm not arguing or trying to be clever with you, but like yourself, I like things to be correct and easily understood.
Keep up the good work Windy...



He’s moved Silsden over to the NCEL Prem. The NWCL Prem was always likely to lose a team or two to lateral transfers. With only 2 teams being relegated & 1 being promoted. Being replaced by either 2,3 or 4 step 6 clubs & the NPL1W currently with 18 ex-NWCL relegating 2 clubs.


BillShep
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Jan 10, 2019, 3:16 PM

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Re: [windydcfc] Non League Projections 2019/20 or Reply Privately

Forgot about lateralls..
So a lateral might possibly create a few more options.
If Silsden do move sideways is it possible then that two might come down, rather than have three promoted.
Personally, I would be surprised if Silsden, or any Premier club made a sideways move. But never say never, soon see won't we..



----------------------------------------------------------
North West Counties Premier Division 2018/19

City of Liverpool FC - Debut season 2016/17

48th ground watching CoLFC - J Davidson Stadium. Altrincham
Latest new ground, 76th - J Davidson Stadium, Altrincham.





windydcfc
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Jan 10, 2019, 3:43 PM

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Re: [BillShep] Non League Projections 2019/20 or Reply Privately


In Reply To
Forgot about lateralls..
So a lateral might possibly create a few more options.
If Silsden do move sideways is it possible then that two might come down, rather than have three promoted.
Personally, I would be surprised if Silsden, or any Premier club made a sideways move. But never say never, soon see won't we..



The FA are going to have a maximum of 20 clubs per step 5 division. So the NWCL is bound to lose some clubs laterally. The current clubs in the firing line are Whitchurch Alport, Hanley Town(if they avoid the drop) & Silsden. Rob’s placed Kendal into the NL1, but I think it’s unlikely & I’d say that they’ll end up in the NWCL. It’s quite easy for the FALC to laterally transfer teams into neighbouring leagues. Because those clubs aren’t too far away from those leagues. I think the biggest issue is the NL & the fact that it’ll need 2 extra clubs. Will they move teams like Knaresborough & Yorkshire Amateurs. Or will they break their promotion criteria & promote the NL2 runners up? Even if they aren’t one of the best runners up on a ppg basis? Or could they run short next season?


oftenscore6
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Jan 10, 2019, 4:07 PM

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Re: [windydcfc] Non League Projections 2019/20 or Reply Privately

I'd have Gloucester in the Southern Premier Central in place of Bishops Stortford, even if they move back to Gliucester itself. We should think of that as a Conference North feeder and Gloucester fit that better. Bishops Strotford could go Isthmian and someone move across from there into Southern Premier South to replace Gloucester.



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Last new football ground (914) RTU Stadium Rigas FS 0-0 Spartaks
With FC United: 132
On the agenda:
20/5 Dundalk v Bohemian FC
23/5 Hindley v Wigan St Cuthberts (rl)


keneastlancs
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Jan 10, 2019, 10:18 PM

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Re: [wazzafan] Non League Projections 2019/20 or Reply Privately


In Reply To
Spreadsheet & Maps updated. Apologies for the delay I've had Work, Family & Holiday commitments.


Why do Stourbridge miss out on promotion when according to your own projection charts they have better ppg than taunton?


windydcfc
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Re: [keneastlancs] Non League Projections 2019/20 or Reply Privately


In Reply To

In Reply To
Spreadsheet & Maps updated. Apologies for the delay I've had Work, Family & Holiday commitments.


Why do Stourbridge miss out on promotion when according to your own projection charts they have better ppg than taunton?



Unless I’m mistaken, has Rob regionalised the playoffs(NPL+SLC & SLS+ILP)? It probably makes sense that this will occur, but I don’t think it’s actually been determined.


hawkwind
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Jan 11, 2019, 11:24 AM

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Re: [windydcfc] Non League Projections 2019/20 or Reply Privately


In Reply To

In Reply To

In Reply To
Spreadsheet & Maps updated. Apologies for the delay I've had Work, Family & Holiday commitments.


Why do Stourbridge miss out on promotion when according to your own projection charts they have better ppg than taunton?



Unless I’m mistaken, has Rob regionalised the playoffs(NPL+SLC & SLS+ILP)? It probably makes sense that this will occur, but I don’t think it’s actually been determined.


From the NLS regulations for 2018-19 as per June 2018
"The Step 3 Divisional Play Off Winners will play a further match against each other. . The ties will be decided by the Committee pairing Clubs on the most suitable geographical basis. The ties will be played on a single match basis with the home Club being the Club with the best points per match ratio in the Regular Season."

From the FA handbook November 2018
"The Step 3 Divisional Play Off Winners will play a further match against each other. The ties will be played on a single match basis with the home Club being the Club with the best points per match ratio in the Regular Season."

No idea why the difference, when it occurred, or what it means (decision by FALC? random draw? automatic by PPG? mini-league of 4?)

(This post was edited by hawkwind on Jan 11, 2019, 11:28 AM)


Brightside
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Jan 11, 2019, 11:52 AM

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Re: [wazzafan] Non League Projections 2019/20 or Reply Privately


In Reply To
Spreadsheet & Maps updated. Apologies for the delay I've had Work, Family & Holiday commitments.


Spreadsheet looks good, can anybody point me in the direction of the maps though?



If an additional Step 5 league was created in the Midlands for the start of 2019/2020

Step 5 - https://drive.google.com/...pH1d9Y5e&usp=sharing

Step 6 - https://drive.google.com/...2Auv1GKZ&usp=sharing


windydcfc
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Jan 11, 2019, 4:34 PM

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Re: [hawkwind] Non League Projections 2019/20 or Reply Privately


In Reply To

In Reply To

In Reply To

In Reply To
Spreadsheet & Maps updated. Apologies for the delay I've had Work, Family & Holiday commitments.


Why do Stourbridge miss out on promotion when according to your own projection charts they have better ppg than taunton?



Unless I’m mistaken, has Rob regionalised the playoffs(NPL+SLC & SLS+ILP)? It probably makes sense that this will occur, but I don’t think it’s actually been determined.


From the NLS regulations for 2018-19 as per June 2018
"The Step 3 Divisional Play Off Winners will play a further match against each other. . The ties will be decided by the Committee pairing Clubs on the most suitable geographical basis. The ties will be played on a single match basis with the home Club being the Club with the best points per match ratio in the Regular Season."

From the FA handbook November 2018
"The Step 3 Divisional Play Off Winners will play a further match against each other. The ties will be played on a single match basis with the home Club being the Club with the best points per match ratio in the Regular Season."

No idea why the difference, when it occurred, or what it means (decision by FALC? random draw? automatic by PPG? mini-league of 4?)



So I was correct in the assumption that the FA will decide which clubs play each other on a geographical basis. That’ll be exactly what I said, the NPL v SLC & SLS v ILP. The only difference is the single game finals will be decided on a ppg basis.


keneastlancs
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Re: [hawkwind] Non League Projections 2019/20 or Reply Privately


In Reply To

In Reply To

In Reply To

In Reply To
Spreadsheet & Maps updated. Apologies for the delay I've had Work, Family & Holiday commitments.


Why do Stourbridge miss out on promotion when according to your own projection charts they have better ppg than taunton?



Unless I’m mistaken, has Rob regionalised the playoffs(NPL+SLC & SLS+ILP)? It probably makes sense that this will occur, but I don’t think it’s actually been determined.


From the NLS regulations for 2018-19 as per June 2018
"The Step 3 Divisional Play Off Winners will play a further match against each other. . The ties will be decided by the Committee pairing Clubs on the most suitable geographical basis. The ties will be played on a single match basis with the home Club being the Club with the best points per match ratio in the Regular Season."

From the FA handbook November 2018
"The Step 3 Divisional Play Off Winners will play a further match against each other. The ties will be played on a single match basis with the home Club being the Club with the best points per match ratio in the Regular Season."

No idea why the difference, when it occurred, or what it means (decision by FALC? random draw? automatic by PPG? mini-league of 4?)


so stiurbridge is worse off than warrington so lose out despite being better than taunton on PPG because they are better than dorking so warrington go up as 'northern' and taunton as 'Southern' this is rather unfair and strange and if they did just on PPG there would likely be no need to move a southern club (oxford) to national north next season as Stourbridge could fill that vacancy.


THDrummer1
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Jan 14, 2019, 8:18 AM

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Re: [wazzafan] Non League Projections 2019/20 or Reply Privately

Hi Wazza,
Great work re the maps and spreadsheets.
Excuse my ignorance on this but are the Notts based clubs in the NCEL1 definitely being laterally moved to the EMCL?
Cheers


BillShep
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Re: [THDrummer1] Non League Projections 2019/20 or Reply Privately

I was talking to someone over the weekend who says that South Liverpool are making plans to enter the NWCFL. They have just moved along the road to Jericho Lane Football Hub but I don't think that the ground meets the correct standards yet. So he might be meaning preparing for season 2020/21 as they should have already applied to play in the League for next season. which I don't think they have.



----------------------------------------------------------
North West Counties Premier Division 2018/19

City of Liverpool FC - Debut season 2016/17

48th ground watching CoLFC - J Davidson Stadium. Altrincham
Latest new ground, 76th - J Davidson Stadium, Altrincham.





Jimbo
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Jan 15, 2019, 6:21 PM

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Re: [BillShep] Non League Projections 2019/20 or Reply Privately


In Reply To
I was talking to someone over the weekend who says that South Liverpool are making plans to enter the NWCFL. They have just moved along the road to Jericho Lane Football Hub but I don't think that the ground meets the correct standards yet. So he might be meaning preparing for season 2020/21 as they should have already applied to play in the League for next season. which I don't think they have.


The NWCFL Development Officer (@garylangley) has put out a handful of tweets on this in recent weeks. His basic message is that achieving Grade H at the site shall be difficult, but not impossible. Depending upon how similar the layout is to its sister facility at Fazakerley, there are a number of obstacles which will need to be overcome. 2020-21 shall seem most likely, at the earliest.


LoyalRed
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Jan 17, 2019, 9:27 AM

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Re: [THDrummer1] Non League Projections 2019/20 or Reply Privately

Morning All,

Apologies if I have missed this, but do we know when the FA will release the Step 6 applicants?

Thanks


miswell
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Jan 17, 2019, 10:55 AM

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Re: [LoyalRed] Non League Projections 2019/20 or Reply Privately

Aylesbury FC are taking relegation from Southern League Div 1 Central.

http://www.pitchero.com/...atement-2386347.html


windydcfc
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Jan 17, 2019, 11:45 AM

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Re: [miswell] Non League Projections 2019/20 or Reply Privately


In Reply To
Aylesbury FC are taking relegation from Southern League Div 1 Central.

http://www.pitchero.com/...atement-2386347.html



As it stands, there place will be filled by an extra step 6 runner up. Unless they finish in the bottom 2 places.


windydcfc
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Jan 17, 2019, 11:46 AM

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Re: [LoyalRed] Non League Projections 2019/20 or Reply Privately


In Reply To
Morning All,

Apologies if I have missed this, but do we know when the FA will release the Step 6 applicants?

Thanks



Probably on Friday


Sarumio
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Jan 17, 2019, 12:09 PM

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Re: [windydcfc] Non League Projections 2019/20 or Reply Privately


In Reply To

In Reply To
Aylesbury FC are taking relegation from Southern League Div 1 Central.

http://www.pitchero.com/...atement-2386347.html



As it stands, there place will be filled by an extra step 6 runner up. Unless they finish in the bottom 2 places.


But Aylesbury are at Step 4 - so how does Step 6 come into this?

Surely its just a straight-forward situation of placing Aylesbury bottom at the end of the season, resulting in either Kidlington or North Leigh staying up.


windydcfc
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Jan 17, 2019, 1:02 PM

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Re: [Sarumio] Non League Projections 2019/20 or Reply Privately


In Reply To

In Reply To

In Reply To
Aylesbury FC are taking relegation from Southern League Div 1 Central.

http://www.pitchero.com/...atement-2386347.html



As it stands, there place will be filled by an extra step 6 runner up. Unless they finish in the bottom 2 places.


But Aylesbury are at Step 4 - so how does Step 6 come into this?

Surely its just a straight-forward situation of placing Aylesbury bottom at the end of the season, resulting in either Kidlington or North Leigh staying up.



Yeah, you’re right. I think it was lack of sleep.


(This post was edited by windydcfc on Jan 17, 2019, 1:03 PM)


oftenscore6
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Jan 17, 2019, 1:16 PM

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Re: [keneastlancs] Non League Projections 2019/20 or Reply Privately


In Reply To

In Reply To

In Reply To

In Reply To

In Reply To
Spreadsheet & Maps updated. Apologies for the delay I've had Work, Family & Holiday commitments.


Why do Stourbridge miss out on promotion when according to your own projection charts they have better ppg than taunton?



Unless I’m mistaken, has Rob regionalised the playoffs(NPL+SLC & SLS+ILP)? It probably makes sense that this will occur, but I don’t think it’s actually been determined.


From the NLS regulations for 2018-19 as per June 2018
"The Step 3 Divisional Play Off Winners will play a further match against each other. . The ties will be decided by the Committee pairing Clubs on the most suitable geographical basis. The ties will be played on a single match basis with the home Club being the Club with the best points per match ratio in the Regular Season."

From the FA handbook November 2018
"The Step 3 Divisional Play Off Winners will play a further match against each other. The ties will be played on a single match basis with the home Club being the Club with the best points per match ratio in the Regular Season."

No idea why the difference, when it occurred, or what it means (decision by FALC? random draw? automatic by PPG? mini-league of 4?)


so stiurbridge is worse off than warrington so lose out despite being better than taunton on PPG because they are better than dorking so warrington go up as 'northern' and taunton as 'Southern' this is rather unfair and strange and if they did just on PPG there would likely be no need to move a southern club (oxford) to national north next season as Stourbridge could fill that vacancy.

This way, there's 3 'Northern' promotees from step 3 and 3 Southern. If they leave it to ppg, it could be a 4-2 split. So in this year's situation, if Taunton and Dorking improved to be the top 2ppg step 3 runners up and won their home playoff finals, they'd be needing to find an extra Southern team beyond Oxford City to move into the North division. Nothing you can do about the split of those coming down but at least those going up are evenly split this way.



-----------------------------------------------
Last new football ground (914) RTU Stadium Rigas FS 0-0 Spartaks
With FC United: 132
On the agenda:
20/5 Dundalk v Bohemian FC
23/5 Hindley v Wigan St Cuthberts (rl)


Richard Rundle
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Jan 17, 2019, 3:18 PM

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Re: [LoyalRed] Non League Projections 2019/20 or Reply Privately


In Reply To
Morning All,

Apologies if I have missed this, but do we know when the FA will release the Step 6 applicants?

Thanks


I expect it will be given to the "Non-League Paper" as an exclusive, but may well be leaked by one or more leagues beforehand.


Atavistic
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Jan 18, 2019, 12:33 PM

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Re: [Richard Rundle] Non League Projections 2019/20 or Reply Privately

The list of applicants has been revealed, and is as follows:

Anglian Combination League
Sheringham

Bedfordshire County League
Cranfield United
Shefford Town & Campton

Central Midlands League North
Clay Cross Town
Retford
Retford United

Central Midlands League South
Hucknall Town
Matlock Town Reserves
Pinxton

Cheshire League
Billinge
Egerton
Pilkington

Essex Olympian League
Buckhurst Hill

Gloucestershire County League
Lebeq United
Stonehouse Town

Hampshire Premier League
Fleetlands
Infinity
Stockbridge

Herts Senior County League
Letchworth Garden City Eagles
New Salamis

Kent County League
Peckham Town
Staplehurst Monarchs United

Leicestershire Senior League
FC GNG
FC Khalsa GAD
Rugby Borough
Saffron Dynamo

Lincolnshire League
Brigg Town

Manchester League
Stockport Georgians

Middlesex County League
Cricklewood Wanderers
PFC Victoria London
Pitshanger Dynamo
St Panteleimon

Midland League
GNP Sports
Moors Academy

Northern Football Alliance League
Newcastle University

Peterborough & District League
Whittlesey Athletic

Southern Combination League
Roffey

Spartan South Midlands League
Berkhamsted Raiders
Bovingdon

Staffordshire County Senior League
Stafford Town

Surrey Elite Intermediate League
Westside

Thames Valley Premier League
Marlow United

Wearside League
Hebburn Town Reserves
Sunderland West End

West Cheshire League
Ashville

West Midlands (Regional) League
Darlaston Town (1874)
Droitwich Spa
Sikh Hunters
Worcester Raiders

West Riding County Amateur League
Golcar United
Route One Rovers

West Yorkshire League
Ilkley Town



Yaxley FC Programme Editor

2018/19 (including Pre-Season):

New Grounds: 33 (Most Recent: Corby Town)
Games: 49
Goals: 180
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0-0s: 2

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genesimmons
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Jan 18, 2019, 12:38 PM

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Re: [Atavistic] Non League Projections 2019/20 or Reply Privately

interesting applicants from the north east. Both Sunderland and Newcastle uni have essentially moved out of town to play at facilities geared up for step 6, which going of whats happened before has never seemed to end well. Never known a reserve team play in the northern league and may not happen again, all hinging on hebburn 1st team



You wanted the best, you got the best


Sarumio
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Jan 18, 2019, 12:46 PM

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Re: [Atavistic] Non League Projections 2019/20 or Reply Privately

And so therefore no Applicants from;

Cambridgeshire County League
Dorset Premier League
Essex & Suffolk Border League
Liverpool Premier League
Mid-Sussex League
North Riding League
Northamptonshire Combination League
Nottinghamshire Senior League
Oxfordshire Senior League
Sheffield & Hallamshire County Senior League
Suffolk & Ipswich League
West Lancashire League
Wiltshire Senior League
York League


Tim
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Jan 18, 2019, 1:19 PM

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Re: [Sarumio] Non League Projections 2019/20 or Reply Privately

Or Somerset County League.


Richard Rundle
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Jan 18, 2019, 1:45 PM

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Re: [Tim] Non League Projections 2019/20 or Reply Privately

No-one from West of Bristol at all.


Sarumio
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Jan 18, 2019, 1:49 PM

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Re: [Tim] Non League Projections 2019/20 or Reply Privately

Oops forgot my home county's league! Yes none from Zummerzet either!

Does anyone know the criteria when it comes to finishing position this season?

Most appropriate for at least three teams on that list - Ilkley, Whittlesey and Stockbridge who might not / are unlikely to finish in the top 4 (maybe not top 5).

Maybe there should be a two-tier criteria adopted.

If you're promotion (whilst finishing outside the top 5) would result in the relegation of an existing Step 6 club - then No promotion.

If you're promotion (whilst finishing outside the top 5) does not result in a Step 6 relegation, and you are merely filling a vacancy that would otherwise cause a division to run 1 short - then up you go!

Would like to think that clubs like Ilkley and Whittlesey will be allowed up (and not be denied by (unintentional) blocking by clubs above them not wanting to go up!

Anyway anyone know?


Sarumio
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Jan 18, 2019, 1:55 PM

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Re: [Richard Rundle] Non League Projections 2019/20 or Reply Privately


In Reply To
No-one from West of Bristol at all.


In fact No one from the entire South West (Somerset, Dorset, Wilts). In fact the south in general has VERY FEW applicants

3 in Hampshire (2 of which look rather "over-ambitious")
2 from Gloucestershire
1 from West Sussex
1 from Kent
1 from Buckinghamshire

And that's it for the area south and west of London!

But then again - we do have a plethora of applicants from the SWPL Step 7s to make up for it with their completely unnecessary brand spankingly new Step 6 division!


(This post was edited by Sarumio on Jan 18, 2019, 1:56 PM)


petermiller36
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Jan 18, 2019, 1:56 PM

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Re: [Sarumio] Non League Projections 2019/20 or Reply Privately

No-one from Humber Premier either.



Steps 4-7 Relegation and Promotion document:
http://bit.ly/PPG1819


LoyalRed
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Jan 18, 2019, 2:16 PM

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Re: [Sarumio] Non League Projections 2019/20 or Reply Privately

Only two applicants across Oxfordshire, Wiltshire, Gloucestershire and Somerset, however only one can go up if according to the Non-League Paper.

'27 possible promotions (1 promotion per league)'

More issues for the Hellenic League...


The Major
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Jan 18, 2019, 2:19 PM

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Re: [LoyalRed] Non League Projections 2019/20 or Reply Privately

Any news on The Jersey Bulls,is it still on course or thrown in the dustbin


Richard Rundle
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Jan 18, 2019, 2:29 PM

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Re: [Sarumio] Non League Projections 2019/20 or Reply Privately


In Reply To
But then again - we do have a plethora of applicants from the SWPL Step 7s to make up for it with their completely unnecessary brand spankingly new Step 6 division!


Do we? I haven't seen a list yet. Have you seen one published? Nothing of the swpleague twitter or web forum, nor Cornish Football Forum


SWP-Phil
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Jan 18, 2019, 2:39 PM

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Re: [Richard Rundle] Non League Projections 2019/20 or Reply Privately

I can confirm a batch of clubs have expressed an interest in stepping from 7 to 6 and from local leagues to 7 in the South West but these were not included as not strictly "applicants" at present.



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Atavistic
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Jan 18, 2019, 2:50 PM

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Re: [The Major] Non League Projections 2019/20 or Reply Privately

As Jersey Bulls aren't currently a Step 7 club, I assume they aren't included on the list for that reason as they have very clearly applied. I believe the same applies for the Hellenic Division 2s, so chances are teams from those have applied (at the very least I'd imagine Long Crendon have after moving in with Oxford City) but just aren't on this list.

Do we ever actually find out who applies from outside of Step 7 normally, or is that something we won't know until teams in that position (such as City of Liverpool a couple of years back) enter the pyramid?



Yaxley FC Programme Editor

2018/19 (including Pre-Season):

New Grounds: 33 (Most Recent: Corby Town)
Games: 49
Goals: 180
Goals Per Game (to 2 dp): 3.67
0-0s: 2

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(This post was edited by Atavistic on Jan 18, 2019, 2:50 PM)


Sarumio
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Jan 18, 2019, 3:21 PM

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Re: [LoyalRed] Non League Projections 2019/20 or Reply Privately


In Reply To
Only two applicants across Oxfordshire, Wiltshire, Gloucestershire and Somerset, however only one can go up if according to the Non-League Paper.

'27 possible promotions (1 promotion per league)'

More issues for the Hellenic League...


The Hellenic, at least covering its traditional hinterland, is doomed.

Wazza's predictions show 6 WMRL clubs moving across next season (Malvern, Littleton, Pegasus, Pershore, Hereford Lads Club and Wellington). Who’s next on the list – Bewdley, Studley…..the Dudley duo!!!

By stealth – the Hellenic League Division One West is “on the move” – and I feel will become annexed by the West Midlands Regional League in a few seasons time. The Hellenic simply cannot fill it with “Hellenic Area clubs” anymore. As I say – it is doomed in its current state!

I think the Hellenic has two option, either:

Cut adrift its eastern contingent (and send them to the CoCo and SSML) and become a Glos/Oxon/Worcs/Herefs/Warks League
OR
Cut Division One West adrift altogether and let the West Midlands Regional League run it.


Atavistic
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Jan 18, 2019, 3:48 PM

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Re: [Sarumio] Non League Projections 2019/20 or Reply Privately

Perhaps your suggestions at the end could explain why the FA are thinking of introducing a new Step 5 league in the Home Counties: that way, they can move the Hellenic's territory more westward and place the eastern contingent (and some outliers from the likes of the SSML or CCL) into the new league. This seems logical to me at least as it's by no means guaranteed that there would be room in those two leagues for the eastern Hellenic sides (the two Division 1s and 2s could then be adjusted to reflect this, with East taking the name of this hypothetical new league and West just becoming the Hellenic Division 1/2).

That of course still leaves the question of where to find enough teams to fill it, but I'd like to think the FA would at least have some ideas for it (or is that expecting too much of the FA, I wonder?).



Yaxley FC Programme Editor

2018/19 (including Pre-Season):

New Grounds: 33 (Most Recent: Corby Town)
Games: 49
Goals: 180
Goals Per Game (to 2 dp): 3.67
0-0s: 2

My Blog: https://thetortoisetravels.blogspot.co.uk/

(This post was edited by Atavistic on Jan 18, 2019, 3:49 PM)


windydcfc
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Jan 18, 2019, 4:41 PM

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Re: [Atavistic] Non League Projections 2019/20 or Reply Privately


In Reply To
Perhaps your suggestions at the end could explain why the FA are thinking of introducing a new Step 5 league in the Home Counties: that way, they can move the Hellenic's territory more westward and place the eastern contingent (and some outliers from the likes of the SSML or CCL) into the new league. This seems logical to me at least as it's by no means guaranteed that there would be room in those two leagues for the eastern Hellenic sides (the two Division 1s and 2s could then be adjusted to reflect this, with East taking the name of this hypothetical new league and West just becoming the Hellenic Division 1/2).

That of course still leaves the question of where to find enough teams to fill it, but I'd like to think the FA would at least have some ideas for it (or is that expecting too much of the FA, I wonder?).



I worked it out that the FA won’t need to find that many more clubs, if they’re going for a 1-2-4-8-16-16 pyramid. But the SWPL & the NWCL are both expecting to keep their newly created step 6 leagues. That’s where the FA are going to struggle.


windydcfc
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Jan 18, 2019, 5:35 PM

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Re: [Atavistic] Non League Projections 2019/20 or Reply Privately


In Reply To
The list of applicants has been revealed, and is as follows:

Anglian Combination League
Sheringham

Bedfordshire County League
Cranfield United
Shefford Town & Campton

Central Midlands League North
Clay Cross Town
Retford
Retford United

Central Midlands League South
Hucknall Town
Matlock Town Reserves
Pinxton

Cheshire League
Billinge
Egerton
Pilkington

Essex Olympian League
Buckhurst Hill

Gloucestershire County League
Lebeq United
Stonehouse Town

Hampshire Premier League
Fleetlands
Infinity
Stockbridge

Herts Senior County League
Letchworth Garden City Eagles
New Salamis

Kent County League
Peckham Town
Staplehurst Monarchs United

Leicestershire Senior League
FC GNG
FC Khalsa GAD
Rugby Borough
Saffron Dynamo

Lincolnshire League
Brigg Town

Manchester League
Stockport Georgians

Middlesex County League
Cricklewood Wanderers
PFC Victoria London
Pitshanger Dynamo
St Panteleimon

Midland League
GNP Sports
Moors Academy

Northern Football Alliance League
Newcastle University

Peterborough & District League
Whittlesey Athletic

Southern Combination League
Roffey

Spartan South Midlands League
Berkhamsted Raiders
Bovingdon

Staffordshire County Senior League
Stafford Town

Surrey Elite Intermediate League
Westside

Thames Valley Premier League
Marlow United

Wearside League
Hebburn Town Reserves
Sunderland West End

West Cheshire League
Ashville

West Midlands (Regional) League
Darlaston Town (1874)
Droitwich Spa
Sikh Hunters
Worcester Raiders

West Riding County Amateur League
Golcar United
Route One Rovers

West Yorkshire League
Ilkley Town



The following leagues/clubs look unlikely to achieve a top 5 position or are struggling too:
Manchester League
Stockport Georgians(currently 9th)
Peterborough & District League
Whittlesey Athletic(currently 7th)
Staffordshire County Senior League
Stafford Town(currently 5th, but the 6th placed team has games in hand)
West Cheshire League
Ashville(currently 9th & have played more games than than all their rivals)


pokal02
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Jan 18, 2019, 5:49 PM

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Re: [windydcfc] Non League Projections 2019/20 or Reply Privately

So there well may be only 18-20 teams promoted from 7 to 6 (ignoring the SWPL where there will be 12 extra spaces anyway). As there are currently 14 vacancies in the Hellenic alone, I'm guessing there will be little or no relegation from 6 to 7? Certainly it seems that anyone not finishing bottom shouldn't have to worry this year.


windydcfc
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Jan 18, 2019, 5:58 PM

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Re: [pokal02] Non League Projections 2019/20 or Reply Privately


In Reply To
So there well may be only 18-20 teams promoted from 7 to 6 (ignoring the SWPL where there will be 12 extra spaces anyway). As there are currently 14 vacancies in the Hellenic alone, I'm guessing there will be little or no relegation from 6 to 7? Certainly it seems that anyone not finishing bottom shouldn't have to worry this year.



That’s what we all thought last season. Yet the FA relegated teams & ran league’s short. I reckon the bottom 2 in the NCEL1 are the likeliest to be relegated. All the neighbouring leagues(EMCL, NL2, NWCL1N & UCL1) are full. So lateral transfers are unlikely & there are 4 feeder league’s in the NCEL footprint with applicants(LL, CMLN, WRCA & WYL). Golcar could go the NWCL1N route, but that still leaves 3 clubs.


keneastlancs
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Jan 18, 2019, 6:55 PM

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Team(s): all non league - especially north western teams


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Re: [windydcfc] Non League Projections 2019/20 or Reply Privately


In Reply To

In Reply To
The list of applicants has been revealed, and is as follows:

Anglian Combination League
Sheringham

Bedfordshire County League
Cranfield United
Shefford Town & Campton

Central Midlands League North
Clay Cross Town
Retford
Retford United

Central Midlands League South
Hucknall Town
Matlock Town Reserves
Pinxton

Cheshire League
Billinge
Egerton
Pilkington

Essex Olympian League
Buckhurst Hill

Gloucestershire County League
Lebeq United
Stonehouse Town

Hampshire Premier League
Fleetlands
Infinity
Stockbridge

Herts Senior County League
Letchworth Garden City Eagles
New Salamis

Kent County League
Peckham Town
Staplehurst Monarchs United

Leicestershire Senior League
FC GNG
FC Khalsa GAD
Rugby Borough
Saffron Dynamo

Lincolnshire League
Brigg Town

Manchester League
Stockport Georgians

Middlesex County League
Cricklewood Wanderers
PFC Victoria London
Pitshanger Dynamo
St Panteleimon

Midland League
GNP Sports
Moors Academy

Northern Football Alliance League
Newcastle University

Peterborough & District League
Whittlesey Athletic

Southern Combination League
Roffey

Spartan South Midlands League
Berkhamsted Raiders
Bovingdon

Staffordshire County Senior League
Stafford Town

Surrey Elite Intermediate League
Westside

Thames Valley Premier League
Marlow United

Wearside League
Hebburn Town Reserves
Sunderland West End

West Cheshire League
Ashville

West Midlands (Regional) League
Darlaston Town (1874)
Droitwich Spa
Sikh Hunters
Worcester Raiders

West Riding County Amateur League
Golcar United
Route One Rovers

West Yorkshire League
Ilkley Town



The following leagues/clubs look unlikely to achieve a top 5 position or are struggling too:
Manchester League
Stockport Georgians(currently 9th)
Peterborough & District League
Whittlesey Athletic(currently 7th)
Staffordshire County Senior League
Stafford Town(currently 5th, but the 6th placed team has games in hand)
West Cheshire League
Ashville(currently 9th & have played more games than than all their rivals)


Only right Stafford town get promoted after how they were treated last year.


THDrummer1
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Jan 18, 2019, 7:40 PM

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Re: [windydcfc] Non League Projections 2019/20 or Reply Privately


In Reply To

In Reply To
So there well may be only 18-20 teams promoted from 7 to 6 (ignoring the SWPL where there will be 12 extra spaces anyway). As there are currently 14 vacancies in the Hellenic alone, I'm guessing there will be little or no relegation from 6 to 7? Certainly it seems that anyone not finishing bottom shouldn't have to worry this year.



That’s what we all thought last season. Yet the FA relegated teams & ran league’s short. I reckon the bottom 2 in the NCEL1 are the likeliest to be relegated. All the neighbouring leagues(EMCL, NL2, NWCL1N & UCL1) are full. So lateral transfers are unlikely & there are 4 feeder league’s in the NCEL footprint with applicants(LL, CMLN, WRCA & WYL). Golcar could go the NWCL1N route, but that still leaves 3 clubs.


In Reply To

But isn't the whole idea of the retructure to reduce travelling and as such the Notts based NCEL1 clubs will be laterally moved to the EMCL and clubs from that league laterally moved to make space as per Wazza's predictions. Otherwise the footprint of the NCEL1 is just growing with Skegness being in it..


windydcfc
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Jan 18, 2019, 8:18 PM

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Re: [THDrummer1] Non League Projections 2019/20 or Reply Privately


In Reply To

In Reply To

In Reply To
So there well may be only 18-20 teams promoted from 7 to 6 (ignoring the SWPL where there will be 12 extra spaces anyway). As there are currently 14 vacancies in the Hellenic alone, I'm guessing there will be little or no relegation from 6 to 7? Certainly it seems that anyone not finishing bottom shouldn't have to worry this year.



That’s what we all thought last season. Yet the FA relegated teams & ran league’s short. I reckon the bottom 2 in the NCEL1 are the likeliest to be relegated. All the neighbouring leagues(EMCL, NL2, NWCL1N & UCL1) are full. So lateral transfers are unlikely & there are 4 feeder league’s in the NCEL footprint with applicants(LL, CMLN, WRCA & WYL). Golcar could go the NWCL1N route, but that still leaves 3 clubs.


In Reply To

But isn't the whole idea of the retructure to reduce travelling and as such the Notts based NCEL1 clubs will be laterally moved to the EMCL and clubs from that league laterally moved to make space as per Wazza's predictions. Otherwise the footprint of the NCEL1 is just growing with Skegness being in it..



Rob knows I’m in total agreement with his mindset over his projections. I just don’t think the FA are as radical as him. For example, some of those teams relegated from step 6 last season, just didn’t make any sense & that’s what everyone has to keep in mind.


Sarumio
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Jan 18, 2019, 8:46 PM

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Re: [windydcfc] Non League Projections 2019/20 or Reply Privately

Whilst there are vacancies at Step 6 NO ONE should be relegated. If that means a proper re-shuffle then that's what should happen!


The Step 6 divisions should be located where the CLUBS are located. The clubs are NOT located in Oxfordshire, Berkshire or Wiltshire, evident by NO applicants from here and half empty divisions propped up by ground shares and reserve sides! And so Wazza is rightly, in my opinion, effectively moving the Hellenic Division One West to where the CLUBS actually exist! Relegate clubs like Raunds, Bolsover and Durham whilst the Hellenics lay half empty? Why would you do that? Nope - just move the border clubs into the neighbouring league and keep going until the last one drops off the edge and into the Hellenic Division One West! Simples!


This should happen all over the country before relegations happen! I.e. if the CoCo becomes full up whilst the Southern Combination still struggles to fill its Division One (similarly to the Hellenic Div Ones, increasingly), then shunt the most southerly CoCo sides into the Southern Combo!


windydcfc
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Jan 18, 2019, 10:34 PM

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Re: [Sarumio] Non League Projections 2019/20 or Reply Privately

I don’t disagree, I just don’t think it’ll happen! Do you?


windydcfc
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Jan 19, 2019, 9:28 AM

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Re: [wazzafan] Non League Projections 2019/20 or Reply Privately

You’v promoted Droitwich Spa from the WMRL1. Worcester Raiders are above them & have played a game less?
According to Worcester Raiders, there is a lot of talk around the WMRL, about the Herefordshire clubs moving to the Hellenic. Plus they said that something else is happening to the WMRL. There’s a league meeting Monday & hopefully they’ll find out then. (I wonder if the league is going to be scrapped & then form part of the new step 5 Midlands League)? Obviously clubs are placed in the the most relevant league by the FALC. Worcester Raiders are going to await the outcome of changes, before they decide which league they’d prefer to be placed in. Not sure they’ll pass the ground grading inspection though. Because they’ve got a massive upgrade, with new facilities including changing rooms social club etc and floodlights 100 seater stand and a additional 3G full pitch being added as soon as last kick of the season is done. And will be to a step 5 ground when completed. They’ve been told that this’ll be okay to be promoted, but I can’t see how they can be if they haven’t passed the ground grading inspection by the 31st March deadline?


petermiller36
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Re: [windydcfc] Non League Projections 2019/20 or Reply Privately

I've now updated my promotion document to show the current state of play at Step 7. I've never gone down this low so any help would be greatly appreciated. http://bit.ly/PPG1819



Steps 4-7 Relegation and Promotion document:
http://bit.ly/PPG1819


windydcfc
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Jan 19, 2019, 11:01 AM

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Re: [petermiller36] Non League Projections 2019/20 or Reply Privately

You could highlight the clubs that already have passed the ground grading. Then add those clubs that announce they’ve passed or failed.
These are the clubs that have passed in previous seasons, that I’m aware of or groundshare with clubs that have suitable grounds!
Retford Utd, Clay Cross Town, Hucknall Town, Matlock Town Reserves, Pinxton, Saffron Dynamo, Brigg Town, Sunderland West End, Hebburn Town Reserves, Stafford Town, Moors Academy, I think other LSL teams have suitable grounds & I’m sure someone will know which ones. The same with the Middx County & WMRL1.


Jimbo
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Re: [windydcfc] Non League Projections 2019/20 or Reply Privately


In Reply To
You could highlight the clubs that already have passed the ground grading. Then add those clubs that announce they’ve passed or failed.
These are the clubs that have passed in previous seasons, that I’m aware of or groundshare with clubs that have suitable grounds!
Retford Utd, Clay Cross Town, Hucknall Town, Matlock Town Reserves, Pinxton, Saffron Dynamo, Brigg Town, Sunderland West End, Hebburn Town Reserves, Stafford Town, Moors Academy, I think other LSL teams have suitable grounds & I’m sure someone will know which ones. The same with the Middx County & WMRL1.


Pilkington fall into this category also (groundshare with St Helens Town).


Sarumio
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Re: [Jimbo] Non League Projections 2019/20 or Reply Privately

Stockbridge's ground is ok, as I assume is Whittlesey Athletic's as they were in the UCL not too long back....briefly.


I believe Stonehouse Town's ground passed last year (but of course they failed to go up as Thornbury Town took promotion).


Not sure about Roffey, Lebeq United or Westside though.


That's my southern input!


petermiller36
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Re: [Sarumio] Non League Projections 2019/20 or Reply Privately

Thank you all. A lot of helpful information in there. I've marked the sides mentioned (other than LSL sides) as passing the ground grading. The tables themselves I'll update again at the start of February but whenever there is ground grading or SWP news then I'll update the document.



Steps 4-7 Relegation and Promotion document:
http://bit.ly/PPG1819


windydcfc
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Re: [petermiller36] Non League Projections 2019/20 or Reply Privately


In Reply To
Thank you all. A lot of helpful information in there. I've marked the sides mentioned (other than LSL sides) as passing the ground grading. The tables themselves I'll update again at the start of February but whenever there is ground grading or SWP news then I'll update the document.



Whittlesey were demoted from the UCL because they failed to erect any floodlights.


Richard Rundle
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Re: [Sarumio] Non League Projections 2019/20 or Reply Privately


In Reply To

Not sure about Roffey, Lebeq United or Westside though.


Lebeq play at the Gloucs FA HQ ground at Oaklands Park, Almondsbury along with Roman Glass St George so they shouldn't have any problems on the ground grading. I can see the Western League and the Hellenic League saying "you have them" "No, you have them" "No, YOU have them" if they end up in a promotion position.


nico
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Re: [windydcfc] Non League Projections 2019/20 or Reply Privately


In Reply To

In Reply To
Thank you all. A lot of helpful information in there. I've marked the sides mentioned (other than LSL sides) as passing the ground grading. The tables themselves I'll update again at the start of February but whenever there is ground grading or SWP news then I'll update the document.



Whittlesey were demoted from the UCL because they failed to erect any floodlights.


Really? SlyLaugh - they actually folded the first team during September 2016 when funds for the lights and other ground improvements were withdrawn. Tongue



One moment's high and glory rolls on by

(This post was edited by leohoenig on Jan 20, 2019, 9:55 AM)


windydcfc
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Re: [nico] Non League Projections 2019/20 or Reply Privately


In Reply To

In Reply To

In Reply To
Thank you all. A lot of helpful information in there. I've marked the sides mentioned (other than LSL sides) as passing the ground grading. The tables themselves I'll update again at the start of February but whenever there is ground grading or SWP news then I'll update the document.



Whittlesey were demoted from the UCL because they failed to erect any floodlights.


Really? SlyLaugh - they actually folded the first team during September 2016 when funds for the lights and other ground improvements were withdrawn. Tongue



Fake news? I got the lack of floodlights correct. Funny how many step 7 applicants I ‘fake newsed’ & they turned out to actually to apply. I did get Wolviston wrong, their committee pulled the plug on the application last minute & the team only found out yesterday.


(This post was edited by leohoenig on Jan 20, 2019, 9:55 AM)


windydcfc
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Re: [petermiller36] Non League Projections 2019/20 or Reply Privately

The 3 clubs below from the Middlesex County League all groundshare with teams at step 5 & above.
PFC Victoria London
Pitshanger Dynamo
St Panteleimon


youngster
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Re: [miswell] Non League Projections 2019/20 or Reply Privately


In Reply To
Aylesbury FC are taking relegation from Southern League Div 1 Central.

http://www.pitchero.com/...atement-2386347.html


Does anyone know if Barking will be joining them? Place is falling to bits from what i hear. Containers for changing rooms, no clubhouse just a mish mash of temporary sheds etc just about covering the basics.


Deaf Leopard
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Re: [youngster] Non League Projections 2019/20 or Reply Privately

Yes they are in trouble, and they know it. They have been trying to get a permanent clubhouse facility in place for some time, but without success. With just over two months left, I think it's looking bleak for them.


Mr. T
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Re: [wazzafan] Non League Projections 2019/20 or Reply Privately

Why are Stourbridge marked as declining promotion?


LoyalRed
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Re: [Sarumio] Non League Projections 2019/20 or Reply Privately

Correct, Stonehouse Town and Lebeq’s grounds are both up to standard. However seems ridiculous only one of them can go up when the Hellenic League is so desperately short of teams, which looks like Lebeq to the Western League and leaving no teams to the Hellenic at Step 6.

Crazy as that then rewards clubs outside of the pyramid at Hellenic Div 2 to be promoted ahead of clubs who have earnt it properly through Step 7.


windydcfc
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Re: [Mr. T] Non League Projections 2019/20 or Reply Privately


In Reply To
Why are Stourbridge marked as declining promotion?



They aren’t. If they face a super-playoff against a NPL Prem side, then Rob’s promoted the side with the best ppg.


windydcfc
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Re: [LoyalRed] Non League Projections 2019/20 or Reply Privately


In Reply To
Correct, Stonehouse Town and Lebeq’s grounds are both up to standard. However seems ridiculous only one of them can go up when the Hellenic League is so desperately short of teams, which looks like Lebeq to the Western League and leaving no teams to the Hellenic at Step 6.

Crazy as that then rewards clubs outside of the pyramid at Hellenic Div 2 to be promoted ahead of clubs who have earnt it properly through Step 7.



If Lebeq ends up in the Western league, then it’s likely that a side will be laterally transferred from that league to the Hellenic West 1. It’s going to be very interesting to see what happens with the Hellenic leagues at the end of the season. Especially when all the Herefordshire clubs have asked to be laterally transferred from the WMRL & MFL Prem. Plus the likelihood that the Hellenic League will lose one of its step 6 league’s in the restructuring next season!


Rebel Yeller
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Re: [windydcfc] Non League Projections 2019/20 or Reply Privately

As do Cricklewood Wanderers at Wembley, although they are nearer the bottom than the top of the Middlesex

In the Surrey, Westside share at AFC Croydon Athletic.

In the Thames Valley, Marlow United share at Marlow.

Having visited a majority of grounds ( but not all) in these three leagues, i would say that the only way up for almost all of these teams in them is to groundshare. None bar two outside these sharers have lights and none bar one have any seating. They are pretty much park pitches throughout. The only exceptions are AFC Cubo in Surrey and Lampton Park in the Middlesex. Cubo are in a 4G cage and have lights but no seats and no room for them as far as can see. Lampton Park play at the new Middlesex FA HQ in Northolt. Again a 4G cage with lights , but they do have about 50 seats.

In these three leagues the reservoir of clubs is just about exhausted.


Mr. T
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Re: [windydcfc] Non League Projections 2019/20 or Reply Privately


In Reply To

In Reply To
Why are Stourbridge marked as declining promotion?



They aren’t. If they face a super-playoff against a NPL Prem side, then Rob’s promoted the side with the best ppg.


They are. On Wazzafan's spreadsheet, Stourbridge are marked in pale blue, indicating promotion declined.


windydcfc
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Re: [Mr. T] Non League Projections 2019/20 or Reply Privately


In Reply To

In Reply To

In Reply To
Why are Stourbridge marked as declining promotion?



They aren’t. If they face a super-playoff against a NPL Prem side, then Rob’s promoted the side with the best ppg.


They are. On Wazzafan's spreadsheet, Stourbridge are marked in pale blue, indicating promotion declined.



This subject was mentioned a couple of weeks ago. I would suggest Rob adds another colour for losing super-playoff losers.


Mr. T
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Re: [windydcfc] Non League Projections 2019/20 or Reply Privately

My first thought was that the three-sided ground problem might have reared its head again...


windydcfc
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Re: [Mr. T] Non League Projections 2019/20 or Reply Privately


In Reply To
My first thought was that the three-sided ground problem might have reared its head again...



If you look across his projection, you’ll see that Dorking Wanderers are in the same position(coloured in light blue)


exile
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Re: [petermiller36] Non League Projections 2019/20 or Reply Privately

Beverley would like to go up eventually and have built a small stand. They now need to add floodlights but haven't set a timescale as far as I am aware.

Not sure what the story is with Pocklington Town


petermiller36
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Re: [Rebel Yeller] Non League Projections 2019/20 or Reply Privately


In Reply To
As do Cricklewood Wanderers at Wembley, although they are nearer the bottom than the top of the Middlesex

In the Surrey, Westside share at AFC Croydon Athletic.

In the Thames Valley, Marlow United share at Marlow.

Having visited a majority of grounds ( but not all) in these three leagues, i would say that the only way up for almost all of these teams in them is to groundshare. None bar two outside these sharers have lights and none bar one have any seating. They are pretty much park pitches throughout. The only exceptions are AFC Cubo in Surrey and Lampton Park in the Middlesex. Cubo are in a 4G cage and have lights but no seats and no room for them as far as can see. Lampton Park play at the new Middlesex FA HQ in Northolt. Again a 4G cage with lights , but they do have about 50 seats.

In these three leagues the reservoir of clubs is just about exhausted.


Thanks, document updated.



Steps 4-7 Relegation and Promotion document:
http://bit.ly/PPG1819


Tim
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Re: [petermiller36] Non League Projections 2019/20 or Reply Privately

Droitwich Spa groundshare with Stourport Swifts so they should be fine.


windydcfc
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Re: [petermiller36] Non League Projections 2019/20 or Reply Privately

Newcastle Uni play at Prudhoe’s old ground until their ground’s developed. Prudhoe’s old ground passes the grading requirements


BDA_85
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Re: [petermiller36] Non League Projections 2019/20 or Reply Privately


In Reply To

In Reply To
As do Cricklewood Wanderers at Wembley, although they are nearer the bottom than the top of the Middlesex

In the Surrey, Westside share at AFC Croydon Athletic.

In the Thames Valley, Marlow United share at Marlow.

Having visited a majority of grounds ( but not all) in these three leagues, i would say that the only way up for almost all of these teams in them is to groundshare. None bar two outside these sharers have lights and none bar one have any seating. They are pretty much park pitches throughout. The only exceptions are AFC Cubo in Surrey and Lampton Park in the Middlesex. Cubo are in a 4G cage and have lights but no seats and no room for them as far as can see. Lampton Park play at the new Middlesex FA HQ in Northolt. Again a 4G cage with lights , but they do have about 50 seats.

In these three leagues the reservoir of clubs is just about exhausted.


Thanks, document updated.


Is it possible to attach the document to your post, as well as sharing the link please? I am unable to open the link on my work computer. Thanks
Angelic


THDrummer1
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Re: [petermiller36] Non League Projections 2019/20 or Reply Privately

Re the West Riding County Amateur League; to the best of my knowledge Golcar Utd don't have lights and Route One Rovers are looking around for a suitable ground share. Although I must add that this info is a few weeks old.


Yorkstar
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Re: [exile] Non League Projections 2019/20 or Reply Privately


In Reply To
Not sure what the story is with Pocklington Town


Ground not suitable yet. They have floodlights, but the pitch is not enclosed; changing rooms are used by other teams playing at venue; no seating / stand. Also car park and other facilities would need upgrading.

I am not sure that there is the wish/income available to make the move to Step 6.


paulh66
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Re: [THDrummer1] Non League Projections 2019/20 or Reply Privately


In Reply To
Re the West Riding County Amateur League; to the best of my knowledge Golcar Utd don't have lights and Route One Rovers are looking around for a suitable ground share. Although I must add that this info is a few weeks old.


The FA press release with the list of applicants specifically mentions that, for clubs to be allowed up to step 6, they must have played the whole of this season at the ground they wish to play on next season: http://www.thefa.com/...s-step-7-to-6-180119. Sounds like Route One might have a problem in this respect.


Sarumio
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Re: [paulh66] Non League Projections 2019/20 or Reply Privately


In Reply To

In Reply To
Re the West Riding County Amateur League; to the best of my knowledge Golcar Utd don't have lights and Route One Rovers are looking around for a suitable ground share. Although I must add that this info is a few weeks old.


The FA press release with the list of applicants specifically mentions that, for clubs to be allowed up to step 6, they must have played the whole of this season at the ground they wish to play on next season: http://www.thefa.com/...s-step-7-to-6-180119. Sounds like Route One might have a problem in this respect.


Didn't stop Kennington going up last season...


paulh66
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Re: [Sarumio] Non League Projections 2019/20 or Reply Privately

The press release relates to this season's applicants, not last season's. The obvious conclusion being that things have either changed or are being tightened up.


Sarumio
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Re: [paulh66] Non League Projections 2019/20 or Reply Privately


In Reply To
The press release relates to this season's applicants, not last season's. The obvious conclusion being that things have either changed or are being tightened up.


But that's always been a so called 'rule'/stipulation.

And so my point stands.


paulh66
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Jan 21, 2019, 2:42 PM

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Re: [Sarumio] Non League Projections 2019/20 or Reply Privately

The 2017/18 regulations merely stated that "Clubs are not allowed to enter into a ground share agreement in order to gain promotion or to retain membership at a particular Step where the Club has failed to attain or maintain the relevant Grade." I remember the ambiguity around this being discussed on here at the time, from which it was clear there was enough wiggle room for the likes of Greenways, Kennington et al to do what they did.

The 2018/19 regulations state exactly the same rule but, unlike last season, the FA has now specified publicly that clubs must have played for the whole of this season on any ground they wish to share for next season. This strongly suggests they're tightening things up. Who knows, they might even get around to enshrining this stipulation within the 2019/20 regulations when they're published!

For now, I'd suggest Route One Rovers have a major problem if their promotion hopes are dependent on getting a new ground share in place for next season, regardless of what happened last season.


(This post was edited by paulh66 on Jan 21, 2019, 2:46 PM)


Sarumio
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Re: [paulh66] Non League Projections 2019/20 or Reply Privately


In Reply To
The 2017/18 regulations merely stated that "Clubs are not allowed to enter into a ground share agreement in order to gain promotion or to retain membership at a particular Step where the Club has failed to attain or maintain the relevant Grade." I remember the ambiguity around this being discussed on here at the time, from which it was clear there was enough wiggle room for the likes of Greenways, Kennington et al to do what they did.


Forgive my ignorance, but could you please explain the ambiguity behind the following.

"Clubs are not allowed to enter into a ground share agreement in order to gain promotion or to retain membership at a particular Step where the Club has failed to attain or maintain the relevant Grade."

So what exactly did Kennington use as an argument to gain promotion? I'd say the same is true of Penn & Tylers Green (to retain Step 6 status).

Lets be honest here - if the FA want you to gain promotion, they'll let you up. Not promoting Kennington would have left the SCEL Div One even shorter than it is now.

Relegating Penn & Tylers Green, would have been leaving the Hellenic even worse off.

If its in the FA's own interests they'll get round their own rules. Well not so much "get round" them - more a case of just ignoring / violating their own rules without a second thought.


paulh66
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Re: [Sarumio] Non League Projections 2019/20 or Reply Privately

I'll leave you to dig up the minutiae of old forum discussions. I'm now simply sharing a publicised fact with the readership insofar as it affects Route One (and maybe others) but, if you want to harp on with more conspiracy theories about the FA supposedly wanting to get around, ignore and violate its own rules, then I'll leave you to it.


Sarumio
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Re: [paulh66] Non League Projections 2019/20 or Reply Privately


In Reply To
I'll leave you to dig up the minutiae of old forum discussions. I'm now simply sharing a publicised fact with the readership insofar as it affects Route One (and maybe others) but, if you want to harp on with more conspiracy theories about the FA supposedly wanting to get around, ignore and violate its own rules, then I'll leave you to it.



The fact is, Kennington didn’t even apply for promotion last season. They simply asked the FA towards the end of the season “We’re off to share at Ashford United for next season, we didn’t apply but will you let us up, as there are going to be vacancies left unfilled by the looks of things?”

The bigwigs at the FA went away, did some sums – couldn’t find 20 clubs to fill the SCEL no matter how hard they tried, and so allowed Kennington to go up!

Do you honestly think the FA would have relegated a perfectly good existing SCEL member to make way for Kennington, had the division already been full to capacity at 20 clubs?


paulh66
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Re: [Sarumio] Non League Projections 2019/20 or Reply Privately

Again, I have neither the time nor the enthusiasm to go digging into the facts behind what happened a year ago, beyond what I've shared in my last couple of posts. But I'd be very surprised if the FA ignored or violated its own rules - it certainly didn't do so during the summer shenaningans with appeals and counter appeals etc over the NLS committee's decisions, even when it was shown the rules themselves were flawed e.g. Tividale.

The relevant point for the here and now is that the FA has expressly stated that clubs who've applied to go up to step 6 for next season on the basis of sharing a ground "must be in the same ground next season as the whole of the 2018-19 season". This stipulation was not in place last season, as far as I can see. So, as things stand, one would expect the FA to abide by this when considering the applications for next season.


(This post was edited by paulh66 on Jan 21, 2019, 3:54 PM)


Sarumio
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Re: [paulh66] Non League Projections 2019/20 or Reply Privately


In Reply To
Again, I have neither the time nor the enthusiasm to go digging into the facts behind what happened a year ago, beyond what I've shared in my last couple of posts. But I'd be very surprised if the FA ignored or violated its own rules - it certainly didn't do so during the summer shenaningans with appeals and counter appeals etc over the NLS committee's decisions, even when it was shown the rules themselves were flawed e.g. Tividale.

The relevant point for the here and now is that the FA has expressly stated that clubs who've applied to go up to step 6 for next season on the basis of sharing a ground "must be in the same ground next season as the whole of the 2018-19 season". This stipulation was not in place last season, as far as I can see. So, as things stand, one would expect the FA to abide by this when considering the applications for next season.


But that stipulation WAS there last season, but you appear to be ignoring it based on the fact it was worded slightly differently...but amounted to the exact same thing.

The Sky is Blue
Blueis the colour of the Sky!

They mean the same thing.

Kennington moved grounds last summer in order to gain promotion. Their own ground did not spontaneously explode, or flood or become toxic etc, They moved to Ashford United solely in order to go up.

Penn & Tylers Green's ground also did not explode or flood. The ONLY reason they upped stick to Amersham Town was to avoid following Chalfont Wasps, Headington etc into the Hellenic Div Two.

You have quoted what the rules stated last season surrounding these shenanigans, and yet these two clubs are at Step 6 this season. So if the FA did not break their own rules to suit their own interests and you won't explain to me how they didn't, then I can only assume they did!


paulh66
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Re: [Sarumio] Non League Projections 2019/20 or Reply Privately

Unless you can show me where it said last season that any promotion applicant wishing to groundshare had to have played a full season at that ground before moving up - a very precise stipulation re timing that was otherwise absent - then I'd suggest this is just another example of you not fully understanding what the requirements were.


Sarumio
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Re: [paulh66] Non League Projections 2019/20 or Reply Privately


In Reply To
Unless you can show me where it said last season that any promotion applicant wishing to groundshare had to have played a full season at that ground before moving up - a very precise stipulation re timing that was otherwise absent - then I'd suggest this is just another example of you not fully understanding what the requirements were.


Yeah whatever Paul....


"Clubs are not allowed to enter into a ground share agreement in order to gain promotion or to retain membership at a particular Step where the Club has failed to attain or maintain the relevant Grade."

Without all the rest of the attitude, just explain to me why Kennington and Penn & Tylers Green are at Step 6 this season.


paulh66
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Re: [Sarumio] Non League Projections 2019/20 or Reply Privately

I really can't make it any clearer for you. There was ambiguity in the rule, which appears to have now been at least partially addressed by stipulating a time frame. Which is presumably why the FA has done so.

Anyway, hopefully others will find the perfectly straightforward snippet of info I posted more useful than you do.


windydcfc
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Re: [Sarumio] Non League Projections 2019/20 or Reply Privately

They get around the groundshare issue, by becoming joint tenants. That’s how several clubs like Pinchbeck & Bolsover were able to go up.


Sarumio
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Re: [paulh66] Non League Projections 2019/20 or Reply Privately


In Reply To
I really can't make it any clearer for you. There was ambiguity in the rule, which appears to have now been at least partially addressed by stipulating a time frame. Which is presumably why the FA has done so.

Anyway, hopefully others will find the perfectly straightforward snippet of info I posted more useful than you do.

and is at best horrendously vague.
Well I doubt that very much! As nothing you are saying makes any logical sense....


Sarumio
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Re: [windydcfc] Non League Projections 2019/20 or Reply Privately


In Reply To
They get around the groundshare issue, by becoming joint tenants. That’s how several clubs like Pinchbeck & Bolsover were able to go up.


So Kennington are now joint tenants of Ashford United's ground?

And the same is true of Penn & Tylers Green at Amersham?

Really???

Still, none of this explains how Kennington got away with not applying - but I'm sure Paulh66 can explain that, as he seems to hodl the answer to everything and nothing!


(This post was edited by Sarumio on Jan 21, 2019, 5:03 PM)


paulh66
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Re: [windydcfc] Non League Projections 2019/20 or Reply Privately


In Reply To
They get around the groundshare issue, by becoming joint tenants. That’s how several clubs like Pinchbeck & Bolsover were able to go up.


That's an interesting and arguably neat way around it! Wonder if, by this criteria, the clubs can argue it's more a ground move rather than a groundshare (a very fine line), or whether this 12 month stipulation the FA have started mentioning is intended to put a halt to these kind of arrangements taking place at the last minute. I guess the former, not least because the latter would appear draconian.


(This post was edited by paulh66 on Jan 21, 2019, 5:16 PM)


windydcfc
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Re: [Sarumio] Non League Projections 2019/20 or Reply Privately


In Reply To

In Reply To
They get around the groundshare issue, by becoming joint tenants. That’s how several clubs like Pinchbeck & Bolsover were able to go up.


So Kennington are now joint tenants of Ashford United's ground?

And the same is true of Penn & Tylers Green at Amersham?

Really???

Still, none of this explains how Kennington got away with not applying - but I'm sure Paulh66 can explain that, as he seems to hodl the answer to everything and nothing!



Spalding Utd’s ground is council owned & it was the council that made Pinchbeck joint tenants.


paulh66
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Re: [Sarumio] Non League Projections 2019/20 or Reply Privately


In Reply To

In Reply To
I really can't make it any clearer for you. There was ambiguity in the rule, which appears to have now been at least partially addressed by stipulating a time frame. Which is presumably why the FA has done so.

Anyway, hopefully others will find the perfectly straightforward snippet of info I posted more useful than you do.

and is at best horrendously vague.
Well I doubt that very much! As nothing you are saying makes any logical sense....


Seemingly so. To you. I can't help you anymore.


Sarumio
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Re: [paulh66] Non League Projections 2019/20 or Reply Privately


In Reply To

In Reply To

In Reply To
I really can't make it any clearer for you. There was ambiguity in the rule, which appears to have now been at least partially addressed by stipulating a time frame. Which is presumably why the FA has done so.

Anyway, hopefully others will find the perfectly straightforward snippet of info I posted more useful than you do.

and is at best horrendously vague.
Well I doubt that very much! As nothing you are saying makes any logical sense....


Seemingly so. To you. I can't help you anymore.


To anyone Paul, its an open forum!


Richard Rundle
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Re: [Sarumio] Non League Projections 2019/20 or Reply Privately

Last season, regardless of the stipulations made in any previous pronouncements, the FA were actively encouraging clubs to enter in agreements, at least in private. The regulations were deliberately vague, this year they appear not to be.


windydcfc
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Re: [Richard Rundle] Non League Projections 2019/20 or Reply Privately


In Reply To
Last season, regardless of the stipulations made in any previous pronouncements, the FA were actively encouraging clubs to enter in agreements, at least in private. The regulations were deliberately vague, this year they appear not to be.



Last season the FA were setting up the 2 new step 6 leagues. The ECL1S & ECL1N new teams have been given 3 years to get their grounds sorted. The clubs that applied to that league, weren’t even on the step 7 applicants list. On a totally separate subject. I’m not sure how true this is, but a club told me that you can apply to the F.A. for promotion, after the 31st December deadline. I’ve been told that you can apply as a late applicant & the F.A. will look at it on a case by case basis. Can any league officials clarify this?


shimtoan
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Re: [windydcfc] Non League Projections 2019/20 or Reply Privately


In Reply To

In Reply To
Last season, regardless of the stipulations made in any previous pronouncements, the FA were actively encouraging clubs to enter in agreements, at least in private. The regulations were deliberately vague, this year they appear not to be.



Last season the FA were setting up the 2 new step 6 leagues. The ECL1S & ECL1N new teams have been given 3 years to get their grounds sorted. The clubs that applied to that league, weren’t even on the step 7 applicants list. On a totally separate subject. I’m not sure how true this is, but a club told me that you can apply to the F.A. for promotion, after the 31st December deadline. I’ve been told that you can apply as a late applicant & the F.A. will look at it on a case by case basis. Can any league officials clarify this?

3 years for ECL D1s, 5 years for KIL (now SCE1) IIRC.

What was it for the EMCL, and what is it for the NWC D1s?



unless stated, all views are my own and are not the views of any other person, club, or organisation


windydcfc
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Re: [shimtoan] Non League Projections 2019/20 or Reply Privately


In Reply To

In Reply To

In Reply To
Last season, regardless of the stipulations made in any previous pronouncements, the FA were actively encouraging clubs to enter in agreements, at least in private. The regulations were deliberately vague, this year they appear not to be.



Last season the FA were setting up the 2 new step 6 leagues. The ECL1S & ECL1N new teams have been given 3 years to get their grounds sorted. The clubs that applied to that league, weren’t even on the step 7 applicants list. On a totally separate subject. I’m not sure how true this is, but a club told me that you can apply to the F.A. for promotion, after the 31st December deadline. I’ve been told that you can apply as a late applicant & the F.A. will look at it on a case by case basis. Can any league officials clarify this?

3 years for ECL D1s, 5 years for KIL (now SCE1) IIRC.

What was it for the EMCL, and what is it for the NWC D1s?



The NWCL was initially going to have a 3 years grace period. But ended up with enough teams that passed the ground grading. So that’s why last season, all the NWCL applicants were on the step 7 applicants list.


kirby knitters
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Re: [shimtoan] Non League Projections 2019/20 or Reply Privately

Talking of the EMCL it's looking more likely by the week that you are heading back. I'll be at Shepshed in a few weeks to see Will (unless you have terminated him)


Richard Rundle
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Re: [shimtoan] Non League Projections 2019/20 or Reply Privately


In Reply To
3 years for ECL D1s, 5 years for KIL (now SCE1) IIRC.

What was it for the EMCL, and what is it for the NWC D1s?


The NWC Division Ones didn't really have a grace period, all clubs were supposed to have met Step 6 gradings by the start of the season. Three (I think) didn't (I'm not sure if there still isn't one non-compliant club even now) and were being fined monthly by the league until they did comply.


trevorgil
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Jan 22, 2019, 2:59 PM

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Re: [Deaf Leopard] Non League Projections 2019/20 or Reply Privately


In Reply To

In Reply To
Aylesbury FC are taking relegation from Southern League Div 1 Central.

http://www.pitchero.com/...atement-2386347.html


Does anyone know if Barking will be joining them? Place is falling to bits from what i hear. Containers for changing rooms, no clubhouse just a mish mash of temporary sheds etc just about covering the basics.


In Reply To
Yes they are in trouble, and they know it. They have been trying to get a permanent clubhouse facility in place for some time, but without success. With just over two months left, I think it's looking bleak for them.


As a Barking fan/in the know I can confirm that we have no issues with our stadium. Our portakabin dressing rooms (as rudimentary and basic as they admittedly are) comply with all regulations and our bar/clubhouse is the same. The club is literally days away from securing a lease which will enable us to secure funding to upgrade the facilities. The Bostik & FA are happy with what we have and we will stay where we are providing we don't finish in the bottom two!


THDrummer1
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Re: [windydcfc] Non League Projections 2019/20 or Reply Privately

Again please excuse my ignorance of things. Wazza's spreadsheets show a number of reprieves at step 6, a few including the bottom teams, but www.thebootifulgame.com state the following:

At Step 6, the suggestion is that the bottom two sides will be relegated to Step 7. If any reprieves are available then the side with the best PPG will be reprieved. The bottom club of each division will not be eligible for a reprieve.

Who is correct?


windydcfc
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Re: [THDrummer1] Non League Projections 2019/20 or Reply Privately


In Reply To
Again please excuse my ignorance of things. Wazza's spreadsheets show a number of reprieves at step 6, a few including the bottom teams, but www.thebootifulgame.com state the following:

At Step 6, the suggestion is that the bottom two sides will be relegated to Step 7. If any reprieves are available then the side with the best PPG will be reprieved. The bottom club of each division will not be eligible for a reprieve.

Who is correct?



I believe the Bootiful game is correct.


THDrummer1
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Re: [windydcfc] Non League Projections 2019/20 or Reply Privately

Just waded through thd FA regulations which state:

At Steps 2-5 the Club finishing in last place in the table at the end of the Regular Season will be relegated and not reprieved. Below Step 5 the Clubs to be reprieved will be decided at the sole discretion of the
Committee.

All very confusing.


windydcfc
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Re: [THDrummer1] Non League Projections 2019/20 or Reply Privately


In Reply To
Just waded through thd FA regulations which state:

At Steps 2-5 the Club finishing in last place in the table at the end of the Regular Season will be relegated and not reprieved. Below Step 5 the Clubs to be reprieved will be decided at the sole discretion of the
Committee.

All very confusing.



The rules also state that teams that fold will be placed in bottom place. So that’s why Penrith are unlikely to be relegated from NL1


siramisp
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Re: [windydcfc] Non League Projections 2019/20 or Reply Privately

Cant see Worcester Raiders being promoted. Ground etc not due to be finished till October is it??

Rumours are rife about West Mids League folding but no clear clarification as yet


footylover
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Re: [siramisp] Non League Projections 2019/20 or Reply Privately

Windy is this 1 definitely relegated from step 6 a hard rule? I did hear mentioned at a recent Durham City game that they are expecting no relegation from NL 2 this season. There seems to be a lot of differing opinions on this. Also is this rule of having to play the current season on the ground you are applying for promotion for and also the following season going to be stuck to? What would happen if a team gains promotion the decides to move elsewhere before the season starts? Here in the NE both promotion spots will be taken on ground share options. (Sunderland WE and Newcastle Uni) until their new facilities are built.



Grass Roots football is the only football worth watching

(This post was edited by footylover on Jan 23, 2019, 7:57 AM)


windydcfc
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Re: [footylover] Non League Projections 2019/20 or Reply Privately


In Reply To
Windy is this 1 definitely relegated from step 6 a hard rule? I did hear mentioned at a recent Durham City game that they are expecting no relegation from NL 2 this season. There seems to be a lot of differing opinions on this. Also is this rule of having to play the current season on the ground you are applying for promotion for and also the following season going to be stuck to? What would happen if a team gains promotion the decides to move elsewhere before the season starts? Here in the NE both promotion spots will be taken on ground share options. (Sunderland WE and Newcastle Uni) until their new facilities are built.



As has been mentioned, it’s a League Committee’s on whether teams are reprieved at step 6 or not. So you might have different decisions up & down the country.
I think Durham City are the least likely club to be reprieved. NL2 has 20 clubs this season & only 1 is currently going to be promoted. It’s unlikely that any clubs from NL1 will be relegated. So that’s 19 clubs left, with 2 almost certainly going to be promoted. That will mean there’s 1 too many. Rob has laterally transferred Northallerton to the NCEL1. I personally don’t think that this will happen & Durham City will be relegated. But this is all about opinions & no one knows what will happen. Even the LC won’t know until the season is over in every league. If Sunderland WE & Newcastle Uni own ground’s are ready next season, then they’ll be allowed to move across after they’ve been ground graded.


footylover
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Re: [windydcfc] Non League Projections 2019/20 or Reply Privately

If that's the case there are going to be a lot of good lads at Durham City dissapointed. They seem to be very confident that if they finish bottom they will not be relegated. Mr Bernard has a lot to answer for.



Grass Roots football is the only football worth watching


windydcfc
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Re: [footylover] Non League Projections 2019/20 or Reply Privately


In Reply To
If that's the case there are going to be a lot of good lads at Durham City dissapointed. They seem to be very confident that if they finish bottom they will not be relegated. Mr Bernard has a lot to answer for.



Let’s be honest, they are a basket case. No home & as far as I can see no prospect of getting one. With Durham Utd at New Ferrens Park & they have a fantastic community set up. The future looks bleak for Durham City.


Northumbrian
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Re: [footylover] Non League Projections 2019/20 or Reply Privately


In Reply To
If that's the case there are going to be a lot of good lads at Durham City dissapointed. They seem to be very confident that if they finish bottom they will not be relegated. Mr Bernard has a lot to answer for.


So from reading this thread it could be if the Northern League Div 2 runner up has a really strong run from now until the end of the season (e.g. Thornaby, Northallerton, Chester-le-Street) and is promoted with Billingham Town(likely champions) then there might be no relegation from NL Div 2. If I’m right but could be wrong then Durham City, if they do come bottom, could still be saved from relegation.


windydcfc
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Re: [Northumbrian] Non League Projections 2019/20 or Reply Privately


In Reply To

In Reply To
If that's the case there are going to be a lot of good lads at Durham City dissapointed. They seem to be very confident that if they finish bottom they will not be relegated. Mr Bernard has a lot to answer for.


So from reading this thread it could be if the Northern League Div 2 runner up has a really strong run from now until the end of the season (e.g. Thornaby, Northallerton, Chester-le-Street) and is promoted with Billingham Town(likely champions) then there might be no relegation from NL Div 2. If I’m right but could be wrong then Durham City, if they do come bottom, could still be saved from relegation.



The League Committee could look at laterally transferring clubs from either the NCEL1 or NWCL1N into the NL2. So Durham City could still be relegated even if the runners up are promoted. But they might already be safe & that’s the problem, there’s absolutely no guarantees. No one will have a clue until the season is over & then it’ll only be a best guess.


blackdouglas
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Re: [Northumbrian] Non League Projections 2019/20 or Reply Privately


In Reply To

In Reply To
If that's the case there are going to be a lot of good lads at Durham City disappointed. They seem to be very confident that if they finish bottom they will not be relegated. Mr Bernard has a lot to answer for.


So from reading this thread it could be if the Northern League Div 2 runner up has a really strong run from now until the end of the season (e.g. Thornaby, Northallerton, Chester-Le-Street) and is promoted with Billingham Town(likely champions) then there might be no relegation from NL Div 2. If I’m right but could be wrong then Durham City, if they do come bottom, could still be saved from relegation.


One easy way for Durham City to deal with their predicament, if they finish bottom they should assume they are going to be relegated.



Northwood, Threave Rovers, Arsenal, Rangers (the real ones, NOT qpr),Watford, Rochdale, queen of the south and a few others.


footylover
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Re: [blackdouglas] Non League Projections 2019/20 or Reply Privately


In Reply To

In Reply To

In Reply To
If that's the case there are going to be a lot of good lads at Durham City disappointed. They seem to be very confident that if they finish bottom they will not be relegated. Mr Bernard has a lot to answer for.


So from reading this thread it could be if the Northern League Div 2 runner up has a really strong run from now until the end of the season (e.g. Thornaby, Northallerton, Chester-Le-Street) and is promoted with Billingham Town(likely champions) then there might be no relegation from NL Div 2. If I’m right but could be wrong then Durham City, if they do come bottom, could still be saved from relegation.


One easy way for Durham City to deal with their predicament, if they finish bottom they should assume they are going to be relegated.

I understand that you have to prepare for relegation if its a genuine threat which in Durham City's current predicament it most certainly is, but surely if, as so often stated the point of this restructuring programme is to reduce travel then why move clubs from leagues miles away before giving reprieves? Doesn't make sense to me.Frown



Grass Roots football is the only football worth watching


doktorb berske
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Re: [Richard Rundle] Non League Projections 2019/20 or Reply Privately


In Reply To
Last season, regardless of the stipulations made in any previous pronouncements, the FA were actively encouraging clubs to enter in agreements, at least in private. The regulations were deliberately vague, this year they appear not to be.


I'm worried that the rest of this thread is just people explaining this very clear distinction over and over again. I got it first time round!

Maybe because of the Kennington example, the rules have been tightened up. Nothing else to say.



I count as a groundhop whatever I feel appropriate.

Reserves? Yes, why not?
Friendlies? No problem.
Bracketed ticks? Come on in, I say.

"I tried to organise freedom,
How Scandinavian of me!"


Sarumio
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Jan 24, 2019, 10:03 AM

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Re: [doktorb berske] Non League Projections 2019/20 or Reply Privately


In Reply To

In Reply To
Last season, regardless of the stipulations made in any previous pronouncements, the FA were actively encouraging clubs to enter in agreements, at least in private. The regulations were deliberately vague, this year they appear not to be.


I'm worried that the rest of this thread is just people explaining this very clear distinction over and over again. I got it first time round!

Maybe because of the Kennington example, the rules have been tightened up. Nothing else to say.


As no one has yet to explain the distinction between last years wording and this years wording, other than to say that there is a distinction but at the saem time refusing to explain what exactly it is, then I'd say it can be re-discussed at any time, anybody chooses.

If there's nothing else for YOU to say, well that's just fine!


Richard Rundle
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Jan 24, 2019, 1:36 PM

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Re: [Sarumio] Non League Projections 2019/20 or Reply Privately

Paulh's post from a few days ago:

"The 2017/18 regulations merely stated that "Clubs are not allowed to enter into a ground share agreement in order to gain promotion or to retain membership at a particular Step where the Club has failed to attain or maintain the relevant Grade." I remember the ambiguity around this being discussed on here at the time, from which it was clear there was enough wiggle room for the likes of Greenways, Kennington et al to do what they did.

The 2018/19 regulations state exactly the same rule but, unlike last season, the FA has now specified publicly that clubs must have played for the whole of this season on any ground they wish to share for next season. This strongly suggests they're tightening things up. Who knows, they might even get around to enshrining this stipulation within the 2019/20 regulations when they're published! "


The difference is clearly explained in the first sentence of Paragraph 2.


footylover
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Jan 24, 2019, 2:29 PM

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Re: [Richard Rundle] Non League Projections 2019/20 or Reply Privately

Thats how i read it. Now its plain and simple with this small adjustment.



Grass Roots football is the only football worth watching


Sarumio
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Jan 24, 2019, 2:42 PM

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Re: [Richard Rundle] Non League Projections 2019/20 or Reply Privately


In Reply To
Paulh's post from a few days ago:

"The 2017/18 regulations merely stated that "Clubs are not allowed to enter into a ground share agreement in order to gain promotion or to retain membership at a particular Step where the Club has failed to attain or maintain the relevant Grade." I remember the ambiguity around this being discussed on here at the time, from which it was clear there was enough wiggle room for the likes of Greenways, Kennington et al to do what they did.

The 2018/19 regulations state exactly the same rule but, unlike last season, the FA has now specified publicly that clubs must have played for the whole of this season on any ground they wish to share for next season. This strongly suggests they're tightening things up. Who knows, they might even get around to enshrining this stipulation within the 2019/20 regulations when they're published! "


The difference is clearly explained in the first sentence of Paragraph 2.


Yes Richard, thanks - I can see that! The difference is fairly obvious! But the new wording means essentially the same as last year's wording - in that you can't just arrange a ground share in order the gain promotion or avoid it relegation.

The wording in in the 2017/18 regulations, means that Penn & Tylers Green and Kennington should be playing at Step 7 this season! Both moved last summer post-season in order to ground share with neighbouring clubs in order to avod relegation and gain promotion respectively. And the FA are aware of this. You said yourself they were actively encouraging it!

This whole discussion came about as a result of me mentioning Kennington's dodgy promotion last season, in response to someone stating that as Route One Rovers have not been ground sharing all of the 2018/19 season and thus that they have no chance of going up now.

12 Months ago when Kennington had not appeared on the list of Step 7 applicants when it was released, and whilst they were still playing at their old basic ground, the chances of them going up to Step 6, especially considering what the 17/18 regulations stated about not arranging ground shares purely to gain promotion, would have been deemed tiny, near impossible.

And yet people still somehow see a big enough difference between these two examples, to categorically state that a club such as Route One Rovers has absolutely no chance of promotion, just because the words in the regulations have been changed.

Riiiight!


THDrummer1
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Re: [Sarumio] Non League Projections 2019/20 or Reply Privately

Wazza's going to have his work cut out updating his spreadsheets if all this is true regarding all these clubs falling foul of the changing room size regulations. Wink


paulh66
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Re: [Sarumio] Non League Projections 2019/20 or Reply Privately


In Reply To
....someone stating that as Route One Rovers have not been ground sharing all of the 2018/19 season and thus that they have no chance of going up now.


And yet people still somehow see a big enough difference between these two examples, to categorically state that a club such as Route One Rovers has absolutely no chance of promotion, just because the words in the regulations have been changed.

!


If this is your interpretation of what "people" have said on here then it says plenty about your interpretation of what the regulations themselves say. Since everybody else seems to get it I suggest we move on. If it turns out the FA does override this apparently new directive/guideline when implementing its regulation then it'll be interesting to see how they justify it but, for now, the assumption has to be that they intend to adhere to it.


Sarumio
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Re: [paulh66] Non League Projections 2019/20 or Reply Privately

Yes I'm sure that my interpretation of:

The 2017/18 regulations merely stated that "Clubs are not allowed to enter into a ground share agreement in order to gain promotion or to retain membership at a particular Step where the Club has failed to attain or maintain the relevant Grade"

...resulting in me being confused and questioning how Kennington and Penn & Tylers Green got around it, by dong exactly what the relegations said they could NOT do, is utterly mindboggling. I apologise for not understanding. I have asked for someone to explain but no one will, I am just insulted and told to accept its changed and move on.

I am confused further by your insistence that we must all assume that they intend to adhere to their own regulations this year! When as far as I can see, they didn't last year!


footylover
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Re: [Sarumio] Non League Projections 2019/20 or Reply Privately

There is an obvious difference. It now means that any club hopeful of promotion needs to make sure the ground they are wanting to share when promoted is the ground they play on for the entire season they apply for promotion. The added wording explains that clearly. Or am i missing something. It will stop clubs that have a good season as often happens from upping sticks to qualify promotion. This has to be a good thing , especially for those clubs that have a ground of their own where they have worked hard to acquire the required grading.



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paulh66
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Re: [Sarumio] Non League Projections 2019/20 or Reply Privately

To resolve your confusion re the Kennington and PTG situations I'd first need to fully understand your perception of the facts behind those two cases, then validate it, then dig up the facts and circumstances behind their eventual admission and then relate it back to the regulation. I'm not going to attempt that. However...

What is clear is that the regulation itself, despite first appearances, is so loosely worded that it has plenty of wiggle room when it comes to enforcing it. Some of this ambiguity was explored further on here last year and, as I said earlier in this thread, I'm not hunting that discussion down. But indicators as to whether the regulation has been complied with might include the length of time the groundshare has already been in place, the full rationale behind the groundshare (i.e. any factors beyond just getting a promotion or retaining the club's status), the substance and form of the groundshare (e.g. from windydcfc's earlier example, a true joint tenancy could arguably be deemed as much a ground move as a groundshare) and so on. Any mitigating factors also need to be taken into account (vaguely recall this may have been a feature of the PTG case, on something specific to do with their ongoing efforts to get permission for lights?)

Last year, the FA generally seemed to exploit this wiggle room to an extent you could possibly argue went beyond the spirit of the regulation. On the other hand, you could argue they were simply being pragmatic while not breaching the letter of the regulation.

However, they now seem to have put a very specific new piece of guidance in place regarding length of tenure, which reduces the overall amount of wiggle room available to them. You'd expect them to adhere to this new, tighter guidance but we'll just have to wait until summer to see how much wiggling eventually gets done!


(This post was edited by paulh66 on Jan 24, 2019, 8:32 PM)


paulh66
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Re: [footylover] Non League Projections 2019/20 or Reply Privately


In Reply To
There is an obvious difference. It now means that any club hopeful of promotion needs to make sure the ground they are wanting to share when promoted is the ground they play on for the entire season they apply for promotion. The added wording explains that clearly. Or am i missing something. It will stop clubs that have a good season as often happens from upping sticks to qualify promotion. This has to be a good thing , especially for those clubs that have a ground of their own where they have worked hard to acquire the required grading.


I agree, think you've nailed it.


LoyalRed
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Re: [footylover] Non League Projections 2019/20 or Reply Privately

Totally agree in supporting clubs who are developing their own ground in order to play football in their community, not ground share in order to gain promotion in someone else’s ground as has been allowed in the past.

However, the FA rule only allowing one club for promotion from a Step 7 League encourages clubs to take their chances through the back door, punishing clubs who try do things properly. Where huge gaps exist in the Hellenic League as an example, common sense should prevail, but again looks unlikely to.


windydcfc
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Re: [LoyalRed] Non League Projections 2019/20 or Reply Privately


In Reply To
Totally agree in supporting clubs who are developing their own ground in order to play football in their community, not ground share in order to gain promotion in someone else’s ground as has been allowed in the past.

However, the FA rule only allowing one club for promotion from a Step 7 League encourages clubs to take their chances through the back door, punishing clubs who try do things properly. Where huge gaps exist in the Hellenic League as an example, common sense should prevail, but again looks unlikely to.



The 1 promotion spot from step 7 doesn’t make any sense. If a league is short of clubs, like the Hellenic League. Then every club that applies & passes should be considered for promotion.


pokal02
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Re: [windydcfc] Non League Projections 2019/20 or Reply Privately

In the long term, the Step 6 footprints cannot mirror the Step 5's (the MFL for example will relegate 2 but promote between 4 and 6 so will have to farm its outliers out to adjoining leagues). I haven't looked in detail at the area covered by the Step 7's but I doubt if the 19 leagues have 2 sensible feeders each (off the top of my head the 2 SWPL's and the SCEL will be 1 short) so long term there will be some adjustment there too.


villan
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Re: [paulh66] Non League Projections 2019/20 or Reply Privately

Yes I think PTG were appealing planning permission refusal re lights so gave them a seasons grace from relegation to enable the process to run it's course but stipulated they had to play on a compliant ground this season hence the ground share. I do not know whether this has been concluded. Mind you I presume PTG could now argue if appeal unsuccessful that they have played at a compliant ground this season so no issue should now exist!!!



End 2017-18, Total Grounds 1365

New grounds 2018/19. 62


paulh66
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Re: [Sarumio] Non League Projections 2019/20 or Reply Privately


In Reply To
Yes I'm sure that my interpretation of:

The 2017/18 regulations merely stated that "Clubs are not allowed to enter into a ground share agreement in order to gain promotion or to retain membership at a particular Step where the Club has failed to attain or maintain the relevant Grade"

...resulting in me being confused and questioning how Kennington and Penn & Tylers Green got around it, by dong exactly what the relegations said they could NOT do, is utterly mindboggling.


If my previous response (#311) to this post didn't succeed in unboggling the mind, then perhaps this additional regulation in the 2017/18 NLS Regulations will:
"Where a vacancy occurs within the NLS either before, during or after the Playing Season, the LC shall decide how such vacancy shall be filled at its sole discretion."
Despite not knowing the full facts and circumstances behind the Kennington and PTG cases (but thanks to villan for jogging my memory a bit!), because there were vacancies in the respective leagues I'd assume it was under this regulation that the FA decided the fate of both of these clubs. And, assuming nobody considers the outcome to be unfair, I reckon the LC applied its discretion suitably.

So no breach by the FA of its own regulations, not even an attempt to get around them, and discretion properly applied.

My apologies for not picking up on this additional regulation earlier. Then again, perhaps the onus for understanding the rules in the first place ought to be on those who routinely accuse the FA of "ignoring/violating their own rules without a second thought." Innocent until proven guilty, not vice versa.


(This post was edited by paulh66 on Jan 26, 2019, 3:44 AM)


paulh66
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Re: [Sarumio] Non League Projections 2019/20 or Reply Privately

 
Not sure about Roffey, Lebeq United or Westside though.


Today's Jarvis Brook v Roffey programme reported that Roffey have recently obtained planning permission for floodlights and a stand. Assuming the funding is in place to complete this work then, from what I recall of the ground when I visited a couple of years ago, they should comfortably make the grade.

Westside, meanwhile, share at AFC Croydon Athletic.


(This post was edited by paulh66 on Jan 26, 2019, 6:41 PM)


hawkwind
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Re: [paulh66] Non League Projections 2019/20 or Reply Privately


In Reply To
If my previous response (#311) to this post didn't succeed in unboggling the mind, then perhaps this additional regulation in the 2017/18 NLS Regulations will:
"Where a vacancy occurs within the NLS either before, during or after the Playing Season, the LC shall decide how such vacancy shall be filled at its sole discretion."
Despite not knowing the full facts and circumstances behind the Kennington and PTG cases (but thanks to villan for jogging my memory a bit!), because there were vacancies in the respective leagues I'd assume it was under this regulation that the FA decided the fate of both of these clubs. And, assuming nobody considers the outcome to be unfair, I reckon the LC applied its discretion suitably.

So no breach by the FA of its own regulations, not even an attempt to get around them, and discretion properly applied.

My apologies for not picking up on this additional regulation earlier. Then again, perhaps the onus for understanding the rules in the first place ought to be on those who routinely accuse the FA of "ignoring/violating their own rules without a second thought." Innocent until proven guilty, not vice versa.


Actually a clear breach of their own regulations according to the text you've quoted.

The text says the FALC decides "how a vacancy shall be filled at its sole discretion" NOT "if a vacancy shall be filled". Every Step 5 and Step 6 division that the FALC decided to run short of clubs this season runs contrary to that regulation.

(This post was edited by hawkwind on Jan 26, 2019, 8:56 PM)


paulh66
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Re: [hawkwind] Non League Projections 2019/20 or Reply Privately

Good luck with that interpretation.
If you've got sole discretion how to fill a vacancy it's reasonable to assume you have discretion whether to leave it unfilled, especially as there's no requirement for leagues to run at full capacity (EDIT: and this regulation doesn't create such a requirement).


(This post was edited by paulh66 on Jan 27, 2019, 12:28 AM)


TomRoystonCrow
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Re: [wazzafan] Non League Projections 2019/20 or Reply Privately

Gloucester City hoping to play back at Meadow Park (Gloucester) for next season and Avlechurch will be playing at Hayes Playing Fields next season as well New Ground.


paulh66
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Re: [TomRoystonCrow] Non League Projections 2019/20 or Reply Privately

Stumbled across this press piece about Ilkley Town's application. The club reckons their chances of making it up this season are 50/50, given the works they need to do and the competition for places to get into either the NCEL or NWCL. If they don't make it this season, they'll go for it next season. More at: https://www.yorkshireeveningpost.co.uk/...-promotion-1-9550431


windydcfc
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Re: [wazzafan] Non League Projections 2019/20 or Reply Privately

Tavistock will accept promotion if they are in a promotion position


rainworthgord
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Re: [windydcfc] Non League Projections 2019/20 or Reply Privately

Got to say I like the look of the EMCL at step 6 in the latest projections. Virtually every game would be a local derby.


shimtoan
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Re: [rainworthgord] Non League Projections 2019/20 or Reply Privately


In Reply To
Got to say I like the look of the EMCL at step 6 in the latest projections. Virtually every game would be a local derby.

who gets to go Skeg midweek?



unless stated, all views are my own and are not the views of any other person, club, or organisation

(This post was edited by shimtoan on Jan 28, 2019, 6:29 PM)


Rebel Yeller
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Re: [shimtoan] Non League Projections 2019/20 or Reply Privately

Can someone advise whether the Mid Sussex League Premier Division is Step 7 or Step 8. I have seen both quoted and would like to know for groundhopping purposes.
Thanks in anticipation.


paulh66
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Re: [Rebel Yeller] Non League Projections 2019/20 or Reply Privately


In Reply To
Can someone advise whether the Mid Sussex League Premier Division is Step 7 or Step 8.


Step 7 according to the FA Handbook. A full list of step 5/6/7 leagues is on the final page of https://scefl.com/...GS_Final_version.pdf


(This post was edited by paulh66 on Jan 30, 2019, 3:21 PM)


dottirofhod
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Re: [Rebel Yeller] Non League Projections 2019/20 or Reply Privately

Step 7 / Level 11.


Off here @ https://www.nonleaguematters.co.uk/divisions/61/



Or Wiki @ https://en.wikipedia.org/...otball_league_system



July 1, 2018 to June 30,2019 = 253 /212 / 41 (You know my rules) @ 20 / 05 / 2019.

Benelux = Bel = 0-0-0-(0-0-0)-(0-0-0-0-0). Lux = 0-0. Neth-= 0-0-0-(0 - 0).
Now blogging at https://eccentricity.video.blog/author/dadofdottie/





rainworthgord
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Re: [shimtoan] Non League Projections 2019/20 or Reply Privately


In Reply To

In Reply To
Got to say I like the look of the EMCL at step 6 in the latest projections. Virtually every game would be a local derby.

who gets to go Skeg midweek?


The update I looked at had Skegness remaining in the NCEL. There may of course have been an update since then.


windydcfc
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Re: [paulh66] Non League Projections 2019/20 or Reply Privately


In Reply To
Stumbled across this press piece about Ilkley Town's application. The club reckons their chances of making it up this season are 50/50, given the works they need to do and the competition for places to get into either the NCEL or NWCL. If they don't make it this season, they'll go for it next season. More at: https://www.yorkshireeveningpost.co.uk/...-promotion-1-9550431



The club has had its FA funding approved & are in the process of raising the other £10k required.


multilevel
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Re: [miswell] Non League Projections 2019/20 or Reply Privately


In Reply To
Aylesbury FC are taking relegation from Southern League Div 1 Central.

http://www.pitchero.com/...atement-2386347.html

More on Aylesbury FC - merging with Bedgrove Dynamos
http://www.pitchero.com/...ncement-2394487.html

Perhaps jumping the gun for them to say they will definitely be in Spartan Premier, no matter how likely it is...


BDA_85
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Re: [multilevel] Non League Projections 2019/20 or Reply Privately

Here they are already referring themselves as Aylesbury Vale Dynamos and the email address mentioned is [email protected]


http://www.pitchero.com/...ncement-2394463.html


Mr. T
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Re: [BDA_85] Non League Projections 2019/20 or Reply Privately

Are there any other clubs that have had four changes of name in less than 20 years?


Atavistic
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Re: [Mr. T] Non League Projections 2019/20 or Reply Privately


In Reply To
Are there any other clubs that have had four changes of name in less than 20 years?


The current Woodford Town are the one that spring to mind (more than four name changes admittedly, but definitely worth noting all the same):

Founded in 2007 as Mauritius Sports & Pennant (merger between Mauritius Sports and Walthamstow Avenue & Pennant)
Renamed Mauritius Sports Association UK in 2009
Renamed Haringey & Waltham Development in 2011
Renamed Greenhouse London in 2013
Renamed Greenhouse Sports in 2015
Renamed Haringey & Waltham in 2016
Renamed Woodford Town 2017 in 2017
And seemingly renamed Woodford Town at the start of this season

Seven name changes there in just twelve years (and they'e also shared at five different grounds in that time, which I doubt many teams can match either)



Yaxley FC Programme Editor

2018/19 (including Pre-Season):

New Grounds: 33 (Most Recent: Corby Town)
Games: 49
Goals: 180
Goals Per Game (to 2 dp): 3.67
0-0s: 2

My Blog: https://thetortoisetravels.blogspot.co.uk/


Deaf Leopard
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Re: [Atavistic] Non League Projections 2019/20 or Reply Privately

Have heard rumours that Fire United are going to relocate to South East London next season, but still looking to play as high a level as possible. No news on Lopes Tavares.


wazzafan
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Re: [Deaf Leopard] Non League Projections 2019/20 or Reply Privately

All updated following today's action.



Non League Projections - 2018/19: http://goo.gl/5UvkvE

Step 1: http://goo.gl/9QipfY
Step 2: http://goo.gl/VoE1oY
Step 3: http://goo.gl/Ru3jUk
Step 4: http://goo.gl/QHVmDA
Step 5: http://goo.gl/VrnrYg
Step 6: http://goo.gl/Mk86of


Mike S
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Re: [wazzafan] Non League Projections 2019/20 or Reply Privately

Frimley Green might not be happy


kivo
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Re: [Mike S] Non League Projections 2019/20 or Reply Privately

FOUR Yorkshire teams in the NWCFL!


windydcfc
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Re: [wazzafan] Non League Projections 2019/20 or Reply Privately

Now Harrogate RA are out of the relegation zone. I’d place them with their neighbours Knaresborough into the NL1. I’d relegate Kendal into the NWCL Prem & laterally move Silsden into the NCEL Prem.


THDrummer1
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Re: [wazzafan] Non League Projections 2019/20 or Reply Privately

Hi. Is it definitely on the agenda that the Nottinghamshire based teams in NCEL1 will be laterally moved to the EMCL? Only last week I spoke to an official of one of the club's mentioned and they weren't aware of this.


wazzafan
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Re: [windydcfc] Non League Projections 2019/20 or Reply Privately

I can't see the FA transferring 3 clubs when they can get away with transferring just 1. Kendal won't have a say which league they're relegated into. Many factors of course. Bridlington could go up. Kendal could stay up. Harrogate could go down. Thornaby could go up etc...



Non League Projections - 2018/19: http://goo.gl/5UvkvE

Step 1: http://goo.gl/9QipfY
Step 2: http://goo.gl/VoE1oY
Step 3: http://goo.gl/Ru3jUk
Step 4: http://goo.gl/QHVmDA
Step 5: http://goo.gl/VrnrYg
Step 6: http://goo.gl/Mk86of


(This post was edited by wazzafan on Feb 10, 2019, 11:50 AM)


windydcfc
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Re: [wazzafan] Non League Projections 2019/20 or Reply Privately

I didn’t notice that you moved Bridlington into the NL. I checked out the travelling Bridlington would have to do in the NL & it’s worse than almost every other NCEL Prem club. So I personally think there’s no chance of them being moved. I think Knaresborough & Harrogate RA will be moved.


Bullet Header
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Re: [wazzafan] Non League Projections 2019/20 or Reply Privately

In your spreadsheet, why are the likes of Stourbridge, Haringey Borough, Radcliffe and Marlow showing as 'promotion denied' please?
Have you gathered some 'inside info'?
In Stourbridge's case it's only two years since they contested the NPL Premier Division play-off final but lost to Spennymoor.


windydcfc
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Re: [Bullet Header] Non League Projections 2019/20 or Reply Privately


In Reply To
In your spreadsheet, why are the likes of Stourbridge, Haringey Borough, Radcliffe and Marlow showing as 'promotion denied' please?
Have you gathered some 'inside info'?
In Stourbridge's case it's only two years since they contested the NPL Premier Division play-off final but lost to Spennymoor.



This is Rob’s way of showing them as super playoff final losers. I’d add another colour & have them highlighted as this. But it’s Rob’s spreadsheet & he does a lot of hard work each season.


wazzafan
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Re: [windydcfc] Non League Projections 2019/20 or Reply Privately

I've now edited it to reflect this more.



Non League Projections - 2018/19: http://goo.gl/5UvkvE

Step 1: http://goo.gl/9QipfY
Step 2: http://goo.gl/VoE1oY
Step 3: http://goo.gl/Ru3jUk
Step 4: http://goo.gl/QHVmDA
Step 5: http://goo.gl/VrnrYg
Step 6: http://goo.gl/Mk86of


THDrummer1
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Feb 11, 2019, 4:41 PM

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Re: [wazzafan] Non League Projections 2019/20 or Reply Privately

Apparently Golcar United's planning permission for floodlights is still in progress, no decision date from the local council as yet. A few neighbouring householders have objected, so don't know if that'll be agreed within the required timescale.


AJPRef95
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Re: [windydcfc] Non League Projections 2019/20 or Reply Privately

According to a NPL chairman I know, the league have earmarked a NPLD1E club (Marske/Morpeth) to be moved laterally to the NPLD1W in order to distribute the travel costs between clubs in each division.

Apparently clubs have agreed in principle to this but I suppose the promotion places will dictate whether this happens.


windydcfc
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Feb 11, 2019, 6:40 PM

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Re: [THDrummer1] Non League Projections 2019/20 or Reply Privately


In Reply To
Apparently Golcar United's planning permission for floodlights is still in progress, no decision date from the local council as yet. A few neighbouring householders have objected, so don't know if that'll be agreed within the required timescale.



There’s been 7 objections, but they’re hoping to get the planning permission this week.


alderman friend
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Feb 11, 2019, 6:56 PM

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Re: [AJPRef95] Non League Projections 2019/20 or Reply Privately


In Reply To
According to a NPL chairman I know, the league have earmarked a NPLD1E club (Marske/Morpeth) to be moved laterally to the NPLD1W in order to distribute the travel costs between clubs in each division. move morpeth or marske to NPLD1W even the F A could not be that stupid.


windydcfc
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Feb 11, 2019, 7:02 PM

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Re: [alderman friend] Non League Projections 2019/20 or Reply Privately


In Reply To

In Reply To
According to a NPL chairman I know, the league have earmarked a NPLD1E club (Marske/Morpeth) to be moved laterally to the NPLD1W in order to distribute the travel costs between clubs in each division. move morpeth or marske to NPLD1W even the F A could not be that stupid.



I can’t see it happening. Another NL club(probably Dunston) will be promoted to the NPL1E & it’s only for a single season until the next restructuring.


THDrummer1
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Feb 11, 2019, 7:12 PM

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Re: [windydcfc] Non League Projections 2019/20 or Reply Privately


In Reply To

In Reply To
Apparently Golcar United's planning permission for floodlights is still in progress, no decision date from the local council as yet. A few neighbouring householders have objected, so don't know if that'll be agreed within the required timescale.



There’s been 7 objections, but they’re hoping to get the planning permission this week.


Thanks for the update Windy.
As an aside, I've been looking at the spreadsheet in some detail for the first time and there seems to be a massive amount of relegation reprieves at step 6 (only 4 teams being relegated) - do you think this is an accurate prediction?


windydcfc
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Feb 11, 2019, 7:31 PM

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Re: [THDrummer1] Non League Projections 2019/20 or Reply Privately


In Reply To

In Reply To

In Reply To
Apparently Golcar United's planning permission for floodlights is still in progress, no decision date from the local council as yet. A few neighbouring householders have objected, so don't know if that'll be agreed within the required timescale.



There’s been 7 objections, but they’re hoping to get the planning permission this week.


Thanks for the update Windy.
As an aside, I've been looking at the spreadsheet in some detail for the first time and there seems to be a massive amount of relegation reprieves at step 6 (only 4 teams being relegated) - do you think this is an accurate prediction?



Personally I think there’ll be regional disparities & that’s why its a bit of a guessing game. Whilst there’s spaces in certain leagues & the upcoming restructuring next season. I can’t understand why the FALC wouldn’t laterally transfer teams instead of relegating any teams. But last season proved that the LC make some strange decisions. So, I personally think there’ll be more relegations than Rob’s predicted.


(This post was edited by windydcfc on Feb 11, 2019, 8:15 PM)


THDrummer1
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Feb 11, 2019, 8:01 PM

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Re: [windydcfc] Non League Projections 2019/20 or Reply Privately


In Reply To

In Reply To

In Reply To

In Reply To
Apparently Golcar United's planning permission for floodlights is still in progress, no decision date from the local council as yet. A few neighbouring householders have objected, so don't know if that'll be agreed within the required timescale.



There’s been 7 objections, but they’re hoping to get the planning permission this week.


Thanks for the update Windy.
As an aside, I've been looking at the spreadsheet in some detail for the first time and there seems to be a massive amount of relegation reprieves at step 6 (only 4 teams being relegated) - do you think this is an accurate prediction?



Personally I think I think there’ll be regional disparities & that’s why its a bit of a guessing game. Whilst there’s spaces in certain leagues & the upcoming restructuring next season. I can’t understand why the FALC wouldn’t laterally transfer teams instead of relegating any teams. But last season proved that the LC make some strange decisions. So, I personally think there’ll be more relegations than Rob’s predicted.


Thanks. It does seem like an ideal time to laterally move teams thus reducing travelling as per the FA's own objectives. But, as you say with the FA anything can happen.


wazzafan
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Feb 12, 2019, 7:20 AM

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Re: [THDrummer1] Non League Projections 2019/20 or Reply Privately

Nothing's accurate, or based on 'inside' knowledge at all. They're just my own predictions. Dunston UTS could be put in a difficult position. I think they're is every chance they could be the team (promoted remember, not transferred) to the NPW and what happens if they refuse? Automatic relegation to Step 6! If you say It'll only be for one season and if it does indeed reduce NPE travelling / evens out the travelling between both leagues I think it will happen.



Non League Projections - 2018/19: http://goo.gl/5UvkvE

Step 1: http://goo.gl/9QipfY
Step 2: http://goo.gl/VoE1oY
Step 3: http://goo.gl/Ru3jUk
Step 4: http://goo.gl/QHVmDA
Step 5: http://goo.gl/VrnrYg
Step 6: http://goo.gl/Mk86of


THDrummer1
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Feb 12, 2019, 8:37 AM

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Re: [wazzafan] Non League Projections 2019/20 or Reply Privately

Thanks Wazza.
How likely do you think it is that the Notts based club's will be laterally moved from the NCEL1? As I mentioned previously one club I spoke to didn't know anything about this.


BillShep
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Feb 12, 2019, 11:12 AM

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Re: [wazzafan] Non League Projections 2019/20 or Reply Privately


In Reply To
Nothing's accurate, or based on 'inside' knowledge at all. They're just my own predictions. Dunston UTS could be put in a difficult position. I think they're is every chance they could be the team (promoted remember, not transferred) to the NPW and what happens if they refuse? Automatic relegation to Step 6! If you say It'll only be for one season and if it does indeed reduce NPE travelling / evens out the travelling between both leagues I think it will happen.


What if that does happen and Dunston are not happy. Does a team have to refuse first before an Appeal or can they Appeal a decision without initially refusing. I am on about a decision to what League they go into initially, not the relegation to Step 6.



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North West Counties Premier Division 2018/19

City of Liverpool FC - Debut season 2016/17

48th ground watching CoLFC - J Davidson Stadium. Altrincham
Latest new ground, 76th - J Davidson Stadium, Altrincham.





pokal02
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Feb 12, 2019, 11:19 AM

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Re: [BillShep] Non League Projections 2019/20 or Reply Privately

Morpeth will probably go up and Marske is practically on the east coast, so if this is happening it would have to be Dunston (or Consett/Bishop Auckland which is only marginally less daft).

I accept that some teams are being disadvantaged for what the FA seees as the greater good (Wisbech & Ellesmere spring to mind) but this would surely be a step too far unless substantial financial compensation was involved.


Terrierdave
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Feb 12, 2019, 11:40 AM

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Re: [pokal02] Non League Projections 2019/20 or Reply Privately

The mere thought that anyone in authority could consider transferring Morpeth/Marske/Dunston to a Western based league is barking mad.


Northumbrian
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Feb 12, 2019, 11:47 AM

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Re: [pokal02] Non League Projections 2019/20 or Reply Privately

Some good points already in this thread re: Dunston but is their travelling much worse in the NPL(W) compared to the NPL(E)? At a quick glance the former is going down A1 then across to Manchester on the M62 and the latter is going down the A1, past the M62, and continuing on to Notts/Lincs etc.
Huge travelling involved either way. Will Morpeth actually have less travelling if they’re promoted next season?

(This post was edited by Northumbrian on Feb 12, 2019, 11:53 AM)


exile
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Feb 12, 2019, 11:52 AM

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Re: [Northumbrian] Non League Projections 2019/20 or Reply Privately

Don't know about the mileage but the amount of traffic on the M62 compared to the A1 would increase travelling time substantially I would have thought.


Northumbrian
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Feb 12, 2019, 12:17 PM

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Re: [exile] Non League Projections 2019/20 or Reply Privately

Personally I’ve never noticed any difference on the M62 compared with the M1 south of Leeds or the A1 but you may use them more often than myself.
On another note is there any evidence the FAs reorganisation has actually reduced travelling distances? The NPL(W) clubs seemed to have benefited and the London clubs don’t have to go into East Anglia anymore but apart from that has there been any positives?
To play Devils Advocate is the whole exercise designed to try and stop the Northern League’s dominance in the FA Vase?

(This post was edited by Northumbrian on Feb 12, 2019, 12:19 PM)


genesimmons
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Feb 12, 2019, 1:43 PM

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Re: [Northumbrian] Non League Projections 2019/20 or Reply Privately

i was all for the east/west split, sure easier by public transport until it was announced it would include teams from Cambridgeshire. I always thought a east west split would go no further south than nottingham or derby, maybe this is the eventual aim.



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oftenscore6
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Feb 12, 2019, 2:37 PM

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Re: [THDrummer1] Non League Projections 2019/20 or Reply Privately


In Reply To
Thanks. It does seem like an ideal time to laterally move teams thus reducing travelling as per the FA's own objectives. But, as you say with the FA anything can happen.

The thing is, moving teams laterally does not always reduce travelling. Often, it increases it, from a natural region that the step 5/6 leagues were into an unnatural one, to fit an 'equal promotion/releagtion between unequal divisions.



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windydcfc
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