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Women's Pyramid 2018-19



Swindon Addick
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May 27, 2018, 10:36 PM

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Women's Pyramid 2018-19 or Reply Privately

There will be a lot of changes this season due to more clubs than usual (probably) going up to WSL this time. According to gossip at the playoff final this afternoon:

- FA have decided which applications for WSL and the new "Championship" (formerly WSL 2) will be accepted. Expectation is is will be Charlton plus 4 from about 14 others who have applied. Charlton's promotion depends on them having passed the minimum standard but they don't have to be one of the 5 best applications. We're expecting to see a new Manchester United team in one of the top two divisions.

- Clubs are being told tonight whether they have been successful and which division they'll be in.

- Announcement from the FA expected tomorrow morning (I heard 11 am suggested).

- The remainder of the current WPL will then sort itself out dependent on how many gaps there are to fill at the top level. There could well be some bonus promotions on offer, and/or some lateral transfers.



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derekn
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May 28, 2018, 12:16 PM

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Re: [Swindon Addick] Women's Pyramid 2018-19 or Reply Privately

Leagues confirmed as follows:

FA Women's Super League 2018-19:
Arsenal, Birmingham City Ladies, Brighton and Hove Albion Women, Bristol City Women, Chelsea FC Women, Everton Ladies FC, Liverpool Ladies FC, Manchester City Women, Reading FC Women, West Ham United Ladies, Yeovil Town Ladies

The FA Women's Championship 2018-19:
Aston Villa Ladies FC, Charlton Athletic Women, Doncaster Rovers Belles, Durham Women FC, Leicester City Women, Lewes FC Women, London Bees, Manchester United Women, Millwall Lionesses, Sheffield FC Ladies, Sheffield United Ladies, Tottenham Hotspur Ladies.


(This post was edited by derekn on May 28, 2018, 12:18 PM)


Spennyfan_chris
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May 28, 2018, 4:43 PM

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Re: [derekn] Women's Pyramid 2018-19 or Reply Privately

No Sunderland AFC Ladies in the list though

"However, the creation of the new two tier Premier League structure has not been without controversy after Sunderland Ladies, who finished seventh in the top division last season, were denied a place in either of the two restructured leagues, despite applying to continue in the second tier.

Sunderland’s place in the Premier League has been given to West Ham, who along with Brighton, are the new arrivals into the 11 team elite group.

That means there will be no teams located north of Manchester in the Premier League next season, with just two, Durham Women and Doncaster Belles, in the Championship.

“Sunderland have been offered a place in tier 3 and we are waiting to hear back from them as to whether they will be accepting that offer,” said Katie Brazier, the FA’s Head of Women’s Leagues and Competitions.

“There are clubs who will be disappointed with the decisions that have been made and they have 14 days to appeal if they want to challenge it.

“Sunderland were given the first opportunity, as an existing WSL1 club to apply for a place last year, but they were one of three clubs who declined to do so, which meant they no longer had preferred bidder status.

“I think that was down to the ongoing uncertainty regarding the ownership of the club. They did subsequently apply in the open bidding process, but they were up against a number of other clubs who have a firm commitment, both in terms of investment and resources, to grow the women’s game. Unfortunately, there were stronger bids.” "

From https://www.telegraph.co.uk/...womens-super-league/

Find the part about Sunderland AFC Ladies down the page



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Swindon Addick
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May 29, 2018, 1:09 AM

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Re: [Spennyfan_chris] Women's Pyramid 2018-19 or Reply Privately

If we assume that QPR get a reprieve due to Charlton winning the play-off, that leaves both top divisions of the WPL square - the southern division loses Charlton, West Ham & Lewes but gains Oxford and Watford, with QPR reprieved and Swindon still relegated, plus two promotions from tier 4. The northern division loses Leicester and gains Sunderland. An additional reprieve is needed in the Midland division of tier 4, as Sheffield United join West Ham in being promoted two steps at once.

The outcome will be particularly galling for Blackburn, who are leapfrogged by Sheffield United after losing a promotion playoff against CHarlton at ... Bramall Lane.



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Dazzla84
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May 29, 2018, 11:31 AM

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Re: [Spennyfan_chris] Women's Pyramid 2018-19 or Reply Privately


In Reply To
No Sunderland AFC Ladies in the list though

"However, the creation of the new two tier Premier League structure has not been without controversy after Sunderland Ladies, who finished seventh in the top division last season, were denied a place in either of the two restructured leagues, despite applying to continue in the second tier.

Sunderland’s place in the Premier League has been given to West Ham, who along with Brighton, are the new arrivals into the 11 team elite group.

That means there will be no teams located north of Manchester in the Premier League next season, with just two, Durham Women and Doncaster Belles, in the Championship.

“Sunderland have been offered a place in tier 3 and we are waiting to hear back from them as to whether they will be accepting that offer,” said Katie Brazier, the FA’s Head of Women’s Leagues and Competitions.

“There are clubs who will be disappointed with the decisions that have been made and they have 14 days to appeal if they want to challenge it.

“Sunderland were given the first opportunity, as an existing WSL1 club to apply for a place last year, but they were one of three clubs who declined to do so, which meant they no longer had preferred bidder status.

“I think that was down to the ongoing uncertainty regarding the ownership of the club. They did subsequently apply in the open bidding process, but they were up against a number of other clubs who have a firm commitment, both in terms of investment and resources, to grow the women’s game. Unfortunately, there were stronger bids.” "

From https://www.telegraph.co.uk/...womens-super-league/

Find the part about Sunderland AFC Ladies down the page


So they didnt apply for professional status, fair enough but the championship is a semi-pro league, to kick them out of even that is pretty disgraceful.



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TroubleAtMill
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May 29, 2018, 11:37 AM

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Re: [Dazzla84] Women's Pyramid 2018-19 or Reply Privately

If you're face doesn't fit the image of #womens football, you get shafted.

What's happening here will happen in the men's game within a few years.


jrev61
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May 29, 2018, 1:57 PM

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Re: [TroubleAtMill] Women's Pyramid 2018-19 or Reply Privately

We should be grateful that Hashtag United don't have a women's team!



jrev61


jon b
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May 30, 2018, 8:23 PM

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Re: [TroubleAtMill] Women's Pyramid 2018-19 or Reply Privately


In Reply To
If you're face doesn't fit the image of #womens football, you get shafted.

What's happening here will happen in the men's game within a few years.


I really, really hope you're wrong.

But very much fear you're right.


Dazzla84
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Re: [jon b] Women's Pyramid 2018-19 or Reply Privately


In Reply To

In Reply To
If you're face doesn't fit the image of #womens football, you get shafted.

What's happening here will happen in the men's game within a few years.


I really, really hope you're wrong.

But very much fear you're right.


Thats my fear too.

The WSL really does look like its on course to mirror the mens game in terms of the "elite"

Theres already 4 of the "big six" in the WSL, with Man Utd and Tottenham in the league below



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Tykeoldboy
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May 31, 2018, 3:05 PM

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Re: [Dazzla84] Women's Pyramid 2018-19 or Reply Privately

This is all done for the good of the women's game and to improve the playing standards of England players. Yeovil kept their WSL1 place despite only scoring 2 goals all season.

Reading between the lines, it is about branding of the teams involved, the big men's PL teams have women's teams. Don't be surprised if Manchester United Women don't get automatic promotion at the end of 2018/19 they are moved up to WSL1.


cope1
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May 31, 2018, 5:08 PM

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Re: [Dazzla84] Women's Pyramid 2018-19 or Reply Privately

And only two of those four stand a realistic chance of winning the league each season.


Dazzla84
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Jun 4, 2018, 11:38 AM

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Re: [Tykeoldboy] Women's Pyramid 2018-19 or Reply Privately

Sunderland have appealed

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/44337577



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Bullet Header
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Jun 25, 2018, 11:29 PM

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Re: [Dazzla84] Women's Pyramid 2018-19 or Reply Privately

Sheffield FC pull out of the Championship
http://sheffield.fawsl.com/...#J7PyeKS0UT7gJbU1.97


Dazzla84
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In Reply To
Sheffield FC pull out of the Championship
http://sheffield.fawsl.com/...#J7PyeKS0UT7gJbU1.97

Hmmm, that could give Sunderland the Championship reprieve



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jon b
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Re: [Bullet Header] Women's Pyramid 2018-19 or Reply Privately


In Reply To
Sheffield FC pull out of the Championship
http://sheffield.fawsl.com/...#J7PyeKS0UT7gJbU1.97


Very tough on Helen Mitchell and colleagues who gave their all over the years in battling to promotion through the various divisions by success on the pitch.

Sadly, at that level the financial costs of taking part are now substantial and the financial rewards limited.


cope1
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Jun 30, 2018, 1:51 PM

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Re: [jon b] Women's Pyramid 2018-19 or Reply Privately

Does anyone know if they're continuing lower down? It doesnt say in that article.

The funding issue is tricky. The FA can't fund much beyond what they're already funding so money will have to come from clubs. That, however, leaves us with a franchise league with the big men's clubs featured and no prospect for smaller clubs to play or their way up.

It frustrates me on both sides. It's clearly an area in which women have been under represented but until the public decide in numbers that they want to watch women play football any professional players are relying on subsidy. I don't believe anyone is entitled to be paid for doing something unless there is sufficient demand for it. On the other hand, the organic growth of the game has been subverted by the big clubs' investments and the close system deployed by the FA.


Tykeoldboy
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Re: [cope1] Women's Pyramid 2018-19 or Reply Privately


In Reply To
Does anyone know if they're continuing lower down? It doesnt say in that article.

The funding issue is tricky. The FA can't fund much beyond what they're already funding so money will have to come from clubs. That, however, leaves us with a franchise league with the big men's clubs featured and no prospect for smaller clubs to play or their way up.

It frustrates me on both sides. It's clearly an area in which women have been under represented but until the public decide in numbers that they want to watch women play football any professional players are relying on subsidy. I don't believe anyone is entitled to be paid for doing something unless there is sufficient demand for it. On the other hand, the organic growth of the game has been subverted by the big clubs' investments and the close system deployed by the FA.


I do believe that Sheffield Ladies FC are to continue at a lower level which fits into how they want the club to go, being a community club for girls/women's football


jon b
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Jul 3, 2018, 10:15 AM

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Re: [Tykeoldboy] Women's Pyramid 2018-19 or Reply Privately

Interview in Sheffield Star newspaper with Helen Mitchell re the withdrawal of Sheffield FC Ladies from the second tier.

https://www.thestar.co.uk/...f-the-club-1-9230170


Swindon Addick
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Re: [jon b] Women's Pyramid 2018-19 or Reply Privately

I have a lot of sympathy for Sheffield, who are a good, well-run club, and particularly after Charlton's own experience of having funding pulled. What must be particularly galling is that clubs had to submit business plans for the season, so they can't have been unaware of the costs. Oxford and Watford both considered things in advance and decided to drop down, which means they have a place in the National League while Sheffield have left it until after the AGM and may have to drop further unless the WSL are willing to reprieve Sunderland and do a straight swap.



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Swindon Addick
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Re: [Swindon Addick] Women's Pyramid 2018-19 or Reply Privately

And speaking of the National League AGM, here are the new constitutions of the two tier 3 divisions. Make-up is as expected. As usual, the champions of the two divisions hold a 1-off playoff for the overall championship, and for promotion to tier 2 subject to an acceptable business plan.

National League North:

Blackburn Rovers
Bradford City
Derby County
Fylde
Guiseley Vixens
Huddersfield Town
Hull City (from D1 North)
Loughborough Foxes (from D1 Midland)
Middlesbrough
Nottingham Forest
Stoke City
Sunderland (from WSL 1)

National League South:

C & K Basildon
Cardiff City
Chichester City
Coventry United
Crystal Palace
Gillingham
MK Dons (from D1 South East)
Oxford United (from WSL 2)
Plymouth Argyle (from D1 South West)
Portsmouth
Queens Park Rangers (reprieved due to Charlton's promotion)
Watford (from WSL 2)



Cambridge City - on a tour of places we've never heard of and can't spell.


Tykeoldboy
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Jul 12, 2018, 3:57 PM

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Re: [Swindon Addick] Women's Pyramid 2018-19 or Reply Privately

Doncaster Belles have withdrawn from WSL2 and will drop down to tier 3. The Belles will be replaced by Crystal Palace


TroubleAtMill
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Re: [Tykeoldboy] Women's Pyramid 2018-19 or Reply Privately


In Reply To
Doncaster Belles have withdrawn from WSL2 and will drop down to tier 3. The Belles will be replaced by Crystal Palace


The FA have been working towards this for years, someone on the FA women's committee will be getting a bonus for getting it done!


Tykeoldboy
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Jul 13, 2018, 1:33 PM

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Re: [TroubleAtMill] Women's Pyramid 2018-19 or Reply Privately

It is a sad day for Women's football when one of the most successful and oldest teams is forced to drop down the pyramid because of the way the FA wants the women's game to go.


Dazzla84
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In Reply To
I have a lot of sympathy for Sheffield, who are a good, well-run club, and particularly after Charlton's own experience of having funding pulled. What must be particularly galling is that clubs had to submit business plans for the season, so they can't have been unaware of the costs. Oxford and Watford both considered things in advance and decided to drop down, which means they have a place in the National League while Sheffield have left it until after the AGM and may have to drop further unless the WSL are willing to reprieve Sunderland and do a straight swap.


Ive not heard much but as far as I know, Sunderland wont be let into the WSL championship and they'll run with 2 leagues of 11



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Swindon Addick
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Re: [Tykeoldboy] Women's Pyramid 2018-19 or Reply Privately


In Reply To
Doncaster Belles have withdrawn from WSL2 and will drop down to tier 3. The Belles will be replaced by Crystal Palace

Well this is awkward. Several players have moved from Palace to Charlton for the higher level of football, albeit mainly former Charlton players coming home.
I'm annoyed at the Belles withdrawing, partly for the reasons stated by other posters but also because I was rather looking forward to the trip and to us playing one of the iconic names in women's football.



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Swindon Addick
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Aug 11, 2018, 5:27 PM

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Re: [Swindon Addick] Women's Pyramid 2018-19 or Reply Privately

Sheffield have been done a favour, which makes me wonder if there was more discussion with the FA in advance than we may have assumed. They've been given a slot in the National League North, which will run with an extra team for this season. I assume that means there will be no reprieve from relegation at level 3, where usually the team finishing 11th in the same division as the overall champions will be reprieved. There was a space at level 4, as Radcliffe Olympic have decided to fold their adult team and become youth-only for a while. This sadly happens a lot in the women's game. So levels 1, 2 and 4 are all running 1 short, while level 3 has 1 extra.

Anyway, here are the top two levels, with primary home venues (always check venues before travelling as many clubs play once a season at their parent club's ground).

Super League (level 1)

Arsenal (Borehamwood FC)
Birmingham City (Solihull Moors FC)
Brighton & Hove Albion (Crawley Town FC)
Bristol City (Stoke Gifford)
Chelsea (Kingsmeadow)
Everton (Widnes Vikings RLFC)
Liverpool (venue TBC, temporarily Tranmere Rovers)
Reading (Wycombe Wanderers FC)
Manchester City (Academy Stadium)
West Ham United (Rush Green Stadium)
Yeovil Town (Dorchester Town FC)


Championship (level 2)

Aston Villa (Boldmere St Michaels FC)
Charlton Athletic (VCD Athletic FC)
Crystal Palace (Bromley FC)
Durham (New Ferens Park)
Leicester City (Quorn FC)
Lewes (Lewes FC)
London Bees (The Hive)
Manchester United (Leigh Sports Village)
Millwall Lionesses (Dartford FC)
Sheffield United (venue TBC - update: Stocksbridge Park Steels FC)
Tottenham Hotspur (Cheshunt FC)



Cambridge City - on a tour of places we've never heard of and can't spell.

(This post was edited by Swindon Addick on Sep 7, 2018, 11:46 PM)


Tykeoldboy
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Re: [Swindon Addick] Women's Pyramid 2018-19 or Reply Privately


In Reply To
Sheffield have been done a favour, which makes me wonder if there was more discussion with the FA in advance than we may have assumed. They've been given a slot in the National League North, which will run with an extra team for this season. I assume that means there will be no reprieve from relegation at level 3, where usually the team finishing 11th in the same division as the overall champions will be reprieved. There was a space at level 4, as Radcliffe Olympic have decided to fold their adult team and become youth-only for a while. This sadly happens a lot in the women's game. So levels 1, 2 and 4 are all running 1 short, while level 3 has 1 extra.

Anyway, here are the top two levels, with primary home venues (always check venues before travelling as many clubs play once a season at their parent club's ground).

Super League (level 1)

Arsenal (Borehamwood FC)
Birmingham City (Solihull Moors FC)
Brighton & Hove Albion (Crawley Town FC)
Bristol City (Stoke Gifford)
Chelsea (Kingsmeadow)
Everton (Widnes Vikings RLFC)
Liverpool (venue TBC, temporarily Tranmere Rovers)
Reading (Wycombe Wanderers FC)
Manchester City (Academy Stadium)
West Ham United (Rush Green Stadium)
Yeovil Town (Dorchester Town FC)


Championship (level 2)

Aston Villa (Boldmere St Michaels FC)
Charlton Athletic (VCD Athletic FC)
Crystal Palace (Bromley FC)
Durham (New Ferens Park)
Leicester City (Quorn FC)
Lewes (Lewes FC)
London Bees (The Hive)
Manchester United (Leigh Sports Village)
Millwall Lionesses (Dartford FC)
Sheffield United (venue TBC)
Tottenham Hotspur (Cheshunt FC)


I make that 3/4 of the teams playing in the top two levels of the women's game in England don't play in the city/town/borough they are named after.


Swindon Addick
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Aug 11, 2018, 9:19 PM

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Re: [Tykeoldboy] Women's Pyramid 2018-19 or Reply Privately


In Reply To
I make that 3/4 of the teams playing in the top two levels of the women's game in England don't play in the city/town/borough they are named after.

Good point. Mostly within their club's traditional catchment area, I think, but in most cases not the actual town.

Meanwhile, here's the updated level 3, with promoted and relegated teams indicated. QPR were reprieved from 11th place in the Southern division, but that was the normal result of Charlton winning the playoff, not due to restructuring. The promotions to this level are all the result of teams winning first divisions, with Loughbrough placed in the South rather than the North due to Palace swapping with Doncaster late on. The North division runs with 13 clubs for one season only.

National League North

Blackburn Rovers
Bradford City
Derby County
Doncaster Rovers Belles (from WSL 2)
Fylde
Guiseley Vixens
Huddersfield Town
Hull City (from D1 North)
Middlesbrough
Nottingham Forest
Sheffield (from WSL 2)
Stoke City
Sunderland (from WSL 1)

National League South

C&K Basildon
Cardiff City
Chichester City
Coventry United
Gillingham
Loughborough Foxes (from D1 Midlands)
Milton Keynes Dons (from D1 South East)
Oxford United (from WSL 2)
Plymouth Argyle (from D1 South West)
Portsmouth
Queen's Park Rangers
Watford (from WSL 2)



Cambridge City - on a tour of places we've never heard of and can't spell.


Swindon Addick
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Aug 12, 2018, 2:59 PM

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Re: [Swindon Addick] Women's Pyramid 2018-19 or Reply Privately

And now for level 4. The Midland division is running one short after Radcliffe Olympic withdrew, so only 1 relegation spot in that division.

Below this at levels 5 and 6 are the 8 regional leagues, most of which have 2 division 1s at level 6. Below that you're into county leagues.

Division 1 North

Barnsley (reprieved)
Bolton Wanderers
Brighouse Town
Burnley (from level 5, North West Regional League)
Chester Le Street Town
Chorley
Crewe Alexandra
Leeds United
Liverpool Feds
Morecambe
Newcastle United
Norton & Stockton Ancients (from level 5, North East Regional League)

Division 1 Midlands

Bedworth United (from level 5, West Midlands Regional League)
Birmingham & West Midlands
Burton Albion
Long Eaton United
Nettleham (from level 5, East Midlands Regional League)
Solihull Moors
Sporting Khalsa
Steel City Wanderers
The New Saints
West Bromwich Albion (from WPL North)
Wolverhampton Wanderers (from WPL North)

Division 1 South East

Actonians
Billericay Town (from level 5, Eastern Regional League)
Cambridge United
Crawley Wasps (from level 5, London & South East Regional League)
Denham United
Enfield Town
Ipswich Town
Leyton Orient
Luton Town
Norwich City (reprieved)
Stevenage
A.F.C. Wimbledon

Division 1 South West

Brislington
Buckland Athletic (from level 5, South West Regional League)
Cheltenham Town
Chesham United (from level 5, Southern Regional League)
Keynsham Town
Larkhall Athletic
Maidenhead United
Poole Town
St. Nicholas
Southampton Saints
Southampton WFC
Swindon Town (from WPL South)



Cambridge City - on a tour of places we've never heard of and can't spell.


TroubleAtMill
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Sep 7, 2018, 5:16 PM

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Re: [Swindon Addick] Women's Pyramid 2018-19 or Reply Privately

Sunderland won their first match, but both Sheffield and Doncaster have lost their first 2, and Doncaster heavily, they may well both drop another division, well done FA.