Home: Non-League Football Discussion: Where are you going?:
Monday 18th - Friday 22nd September



Andy D
Chelsea Transfer Target

Sep 1, 2017, 11:29 AM

Posts: 3633
Location: Cheshire/Dorset
Team(s): 1874 Northwich, Forfar Athletic, Castleford RLFC, Lancashire CCC,


Views: 4425
Monday 18th - Friday 22nd September or Reply Privately

A free pass out all week due to 'er indoors being at the southern residence, so early thoughts are:
Monday - Atherton Collieries v Colwyn Bay (NPL1N) - 13 years since last visit
Tuesday - Padiham v Ashton Athletic (NWCLP) - 12 years.......
Wednesday - Hanley Town v Northwich Victoria (NWCLP) - 14 years.......
Thursday - Cefn Druids v Bala Town (Welsh Prem) - Not very long at all.........


All subject to FA Cup replays and lack of enthusiasm.



Rules of Groundhopping:

Rule 1 - There are no rules
Rule 2 - See rule 1.....


revandyw
Junior Team Sub

Sep 1, 2017, 1:20 PM

Posts: 17
Location: Portsmouth
Team(s): WBA / Havant & Waterlooville


Views: 4396
Re: [Andy D] Monday 18th - Friday 22nd September or Reply Privately

Tues: Fleet Spurs v Havant & Waterlooville (Hampshire Senior Cup)


Part-Timer
Chelsea Transfer Target

Sep 1, 2017, 1:30 PM

Posts: 3831
Location: Huntingdonshire
Team(s): Brentford, Bradford City, Peterborough United, Yaxley


Views: 4391
Re: [revandyw] Monday 18th - Friday 22nd September or Reply Privately

Tuesday: Grantham Town v Halesowen Town - Northern Premier League Premier Division
Wednesday: Rushden and Higham United v Leicester Nirvana - United Counties League Cup First Round


hemelhopper
First Team Sub


Sep 1, 2017, 2:31 PM

Posts: 974
Location: Beside the Spinnaker Tower
Team(s): Hemel Hempstead Town FC, Trust Portsmouth FC and The Reds of Cincinnati


Views: 4374
Re: [Part-Timer] Monday 18th - Friday 22nd September or Reply Privately

.. no excuses .. so time to go see their Stadium with the season ticket holders .. Tongue

Tues - West Ham United v Bolton Wanderers (Carabao Cup, 3rd Rd) from 7.45pm .. tickets from 10 .. general sale 4th Sept.



Grounds Visited = 424, Games in 17-18 Season = 50; New Grounds this Season = 31; Goals seen this Season = 198; Ave goals / game = 3.96; Last new ground = Three Bridges; Next Game = Tues 21st Nov 2017

(This post was edited by hemelhopper on Sep 20, 2017, 10:12 AM)


Ipeland
Youth Team Star

Sep 1, 2017, 5:38 PM

Posts: 361
Location: Newcastle/Wrexham
Team(s): Bolton Wanderers, local non-league teams


Views: 4342
Re: [hemelhopper] Monday 18th - Friday 22nd September or Reply Privately

Tuesday 19th September - Wet Spam vs Bolton Wanderers - League Cup 3rd Round
Thursday 21st September - Cefn Druids vs Bala Town - Welsh Premier League



Grounds visited: 158
Last new ground: Perth Green (Jarrow)
Next planned fixture: Hartlepool United vs Aldershot - Conference Premier - 18/11/17

(This post was edited by Ipeland on Sep 16, 2017, 10:41 PM)


bagman
Man City Transfer Target!

Sep 3, 2017, 12:12 PM

Posts: 13912
Location: Chatham
Team(s): Brentford


Views: 4235
Re: [Ipeland] Monday 18th - Friday 22nd September or Reply Privately

Tuesday 19th September 2017

Carabao Cup (League Cup)

Brentford v Norwich City (7.45pm)


pilgrim46
Youth Team Star


Sep 4, 2017, 1:55 PM

Posts: 361
Location: Plympton, Devon
Team(s): Plymouth Argyle, any non league team in Devon & Cornwall


Views: 4154
Re: [bagman] Monday 18th - Friday 22nd September or Reply Privately

Tuesday - Plymouth Marjon v Elburton Villa
Wednesday - Saltash United v Launceston


Miles Offside
Reserve Team Sub


Sep 4, 2017, 7:56 PM

Posts: 472
Location: Lancashire
Team(s): Everton, Burscough,Marine, Southport,Wire RL,LancsCCC


Views: 4106
Re: [pilgrim46] Monday 18th - Friday 22nd September or Reply Privately

Mon. Marine Youth v Bootle Youth[FAY Cup]
[NOW Wed 20th]
Tues.Marine v Ashton Utd [ NPL Prem] OR
Prescot Cables v Trafford[NPL 1N]
Wed/ Everton v Sunderland [FL Cup]


(This post was edited by Miles Offside on Sep 18, 2017, 8:48 PM)


Leyther_Matt
First Team Star


Sep 5, 2017, 9:32 AM

Posts: 1632
Location: Leigh, Lancashire
Team(s): Hibernian, Bolton Wanderers, Atherton Collieries & Leigh Centurions RL


Views: 4060
Re: [Andy D] Monday 18th - Friday 22nd September or Reply Privately

Monday 18th - Atherton Collieries vs Colwyn Bay (NPL D1N)
Tuesday 19th - West Ham United vs Bolton Wanderers (EFL Cup R3)

Also going to London Broncos vs Leigh Centurions on Friday 22nd (Super 8's Qualifiers - Sky dependent!)


KnowYourMarket
Man City Transfer Target!


Sep 5, 2017, 9:57 AM

Posts: 10514
Location: Longton, Stoke-on-Trent - Ar Bay a Brummie
Team(s): WBA, FC Saarbruecken, Brierley Hill Alliance (RIP)


Views: 4051
Re: [Leyther_Matt] Monday 18th - Friday 22nd September or Reply Privately

Could all be work....

Tuesday: try again for Cammell Laird v Eccleshall
Wednesday: Hereford Lads Club v Pegasus Juniors



Last ground visited: Rochester United. Avg Goal 15/16: 4.43 Avg att 15/16: 392. New grounds 15/16: 37


Part-Timer
Chelsea Transfer Target

Sep 6, 2017, 11:31 AM

Posts: 3831
Location: Huntingdonshire
Team(s): Brentford, Bradford City, Peterborough United, Yaxley


Views: 3960
Re: [Part-Timer] Monday 18th - Friday 22nd September or Reply Privately


In Reply To
Tuesday: Grantham Town v Halesowen Town - Northern Premier League Premier Division
Wednesday: Rushden and Higham United v Leicester Nirvana - United Counties League Cup First Round

Change of plan. On Wednesday I now plan to be at Blackstones v Huntingdon Town in the United Counties League Cup First Round.


colpic
Chelsea Transfer Target


Sep 6, 2017, 8:03 PM

Posts: 3007
Location: North West Lincolnshire
Team(s): Scotter United (Scunthorpe League), AFC Telford(home town club),


Views: 3870
Re: [Part-Timer] Monday 18th - Friday 22nd September or Reply Privately

Not too sure about the first part of the week but a Ryanair Manchester to Eindhoven flight for 17 means:-

Fri 22nd

MVV Maastricht v Cambuur Leeuwarden

Now also going to:-

Wed 20th

Bottesford T v Hall Road Rangers



Where's the 'ignore this poster' button?


(This post was edited by colpic on Sep 14, 2017, 10:54 PM)


DavetheGlassboy
Chelsea Transfer Target

Sep 9, 2017, 12:39 AM

Posts: 4361
Location: Oldbury, West Midlands
Team(s): Stourbridge FC, Warrington RLFC, Stourport HC


Views: 3747
Re: [colpic] Monday 18th - Friday 22nd September or Reply Privately

Tues - Mickleover Sports v Stourbridge (FA Cup replays notwithstanding)

Thurs - Cefn Druids v Bala Town



Last new ground (783): LFF Stadium, Vilnius - Lithuania v England 8/10/17
Last game: Stourbridge v Grantham 21/10/17
Football seen in: England, Wales, Scotland, Italy, France, Germany, Denmark, Netherlands, Spain, Austria, Croatia, Jersey, Sweden, Switzerland, Republic of Ireland, United States of America, Ukraine, Montenegro, Estonia, San Marino, Slovenia, Northern Ireland, Malta, Lithuania


intheshire
Youth Team Sub

Sep 10, 2017, 6:56 PM

Posts: 131
Location: Cheltenham
Team(s):


Views: 3617
Re: [DavetheGlassboy] Monday 18th - Friday 22nd September or Reply Privately

Tues

Carabao Cup

Leicester v Liverpool



Instagram: JBattheground
www.instagram.com/JBattheground

Last Ground (128): Waterside Park, Thatcham Town FC


Digdagdog
Reserve Team Regular


Sep 11, 2017, 1:05 PM

Posts: 551
Location: Wiltshire
Team(s): Melksham Town, Bath Rugby, Wigan Warriors and Lancashire CCC


Views: 3517
Re: [intheshire] Monday 18th - Friday 22nd September or Reply Privately

I have a minor surgical issue to attend to this week but should be able to squeeze in Highmoor Ibis v Newport Pagnell T on Monday in the Berks and Bucks Senior Cup 1945hrs ko



2016-17 Games: 109 Goals: 446 GPG: 4.09 New Grounds: 74
2017-18 Games: 71 Goals: 314 GPG: 4.42 New Grounds: 53




villan
First Team Sub

Sep 11, 2017, 2:11 PM

Posts: 1062
Location: Redditch
Team(s): Aston Villa-Newport County-


Views: 3486
Re: [intheshire] Monday 18th - Friday 22nd September or Reply Privately

Also Carabao Cup action on Tuesday


Aston Villa v Middlesbrough



End 2016-17, Total Grounds 1308

New grounds 2017/18 29


sheffgeoff
First Team Star


Sep 11, 2017, 8:37 PM

Posts: 1451
Location: Sheffield
Team(s): Colchester United, Stocksbridge Park Steels, Borussia Dortmund & Essex CCC


Views: 3397
Re: [villan] Monday 18th - Friday 22nd September or Reply Privately

Monday 14:00

Professional Development League

Canalside, Huddersfield

Huddersfield Town U23s v Colchester United U23s


Tuesday 19:45

League Cup 3rd Round

London Stadium, Stratford

West Ham United v Bolton Wanderers


Friday 19:45

Northern League Division 2

Perth Green CA, Jarrow

Jarrow v Chester-Le-Street


(This post was edited by sheffgeoff on Sep 18, 2017, 6:27 PM)


IAN S
First Team Star

Sep 12, 2017, 5:36 PM

Posts: 2163
Location: Stocksbridge, Sheffield
Team(s): Sheffield United, Sheffield Eagles, Kendal Town


Views: 3246
Re: [sheffgeoff] Monday 18th - Friday 22nd September or Reply Privately

Will be joining Geoff at one of these!



We'll be, as we are, when all the fools who doubt us fade away.


sheffgeoff
First Team Star


Sep 12, 2017, 5:55 PM

Posts: 1451
Location: Sheffield
Team(s): Colchester United, Stocksbridge Park Steels, Borussia Dortmund & Essex CCC


Views: 3232
Re: [IAN S] Monday 18th - Friday 22nd September or Reply Privately


In Reply To
Will be joining Geoff at one of these!

Northern League Division 2

Perth Green CA, Jarrow

Jarrow v Chester-Le-Street


Spoff
Junior Team Sub

Sep 13, 2017, 3:42 PM

Posts: 26
Location: Ossett, West Yorkshire
Team(s): Ossett Town


Views: 3057
Re: [sheffgeoff] Monday 18th - Friday 22nd September or Reply Privately

I'm working in Newcastle part of next week so the Tuesday evening I have decided to head to Seaham Red Star v Consett.

We (Ossett Town) played Consett in the FA Cup recently so going to watch them seemed the obvious choice.

Wondering if their supporters will turn in in Fez Hats and plant pots on their heads again or if that was a special treat for the residents of Ossett!



Neil Spofforth Ossett Town AFC Media Manager
www.ossetttown.co.uk @OssettTownAFC @Spofforth


Tim
Man City Transfer Target!


Sep 13, 2017, 9:14 PM

Posts: 7118
Location: Stourbridge
Team(s): Stourbridge, Welton Rovers


Views: 2834
Re: [Spoff] Monday 18th - Friday 22nd September or Reply Privately

Little to excite this week, so probably annual visits to:

Tuesday - Stourport Swifts v Cadbury Athletic (Midland Football League Creme Egg Cup)

Wednesday - Malvern Town v Tividale (West Midlands Regional League)


scottsas
Youth Team Regular

Sep 13, 2017, 11:59 PM

Posts: 266
Location:
Team(s):


Views: 2773
Re: [Tim] Monday 18th - Friday 22nd September or Reply Privately

An expected week with not a lot on, so contemplating...
Monday Atherton Colls v Colwyn Bay 9dependent on afternoon work)
Tuesday Greenbank BB v MOrton St Francis in Strathclyde Evangelical Churches League
Wednesday Wales u17 v Scotland u17, 5pm at Llanelli then Swansea Uni v Trethomas Bluebirds 730pm;
Thursday Cefn Druids v Bala in WPL
Friday Maryhill v Irvine Meadow, Junior Cup


(This post was edited by scottsas on Sep 20, 2017, 12:07 AM)


leohoenig
Administrator

Sep 14, 2017, 2:12 AM

Posts: 11395
Location: Outer Cheltenhamshire
Team(s): Cheltenham Town


Views: 2748
Re: [scottsas] Monday 18th - Friday 22nd September or Reply Privately

Plan A
Monday: Zwekapin United v GFA (Gospel for Asia)

Wednesday: Buriram United v Bangkok Glass



Fat AND Pompous.
The proof that you can have too much of a good thing
Now blogging at http://www.leohoenig.com


villan
First Team Sub

Sep 15, 2017, 1:26 PM

Posts: 1062
Location: Redditch
Team(s): Aston Villa-Newport County-


Views: 2481
Re: [villan] Monday 18th - Friday 22nd September or Reply Privately

Wednesday


Western League division 1. Bishops Lydeard v Sherborne Town



End 2016-17, Total Grounds 1308

New grounds 2017/18 29


stingray
First Team Star

Sep 15, 2017, 5:35 PM

Posts: 1963
Location: Leighton Buzzard
Team(s): Leighton Town, other local sides


Views: 2390
Re: [villan] Monday 18th - Friday 22nd September or Reply Privately

Tuesday - BIGGLESWADE FC v. COLNEY HEATH

Wednesday - BALDOCK TOWN v. WODSON PARK (assuming the hosts are still lodging at Arlesey)



33 games
113 goals (average 3.4242)
350.50 (average 10.6212)


villan
First Team Sub

Sep 16, 2017, 12:52 PM

Posts: 1062
Location: Redditch
Team(s): Aston Villa-Newport County-


Views: 2015
Re: [villan] Monday 18th - Friday 22nd September or Reply Privately


In Reply To
Wednesday


Western League division 1. Bishops Lydeard v Sherborne Town


Also according to league website on full time Leicestershire senior league Beacon league cup

Rugby Borough v Earl Shilton Albion listed for MONDAY so I may have some of that & should be plenty of goals unfortunately vast majority being in visitors net!!!!!




End 2016-17, Total Grounds 1308

New grounds 2017/18 29


Rebel Yeller
Junior Team Star

Sep 17, 2017, 4:27 PM

Posts: 98
Location:
Team(s): Hopper


Views: 1800
Re: [villan] Monday 18th - Friday 22nd September or Reply Privately

It's the Isthmian League/Velocity/Alan Turvey Cup/Trophy this week so as a little piece of Tuscany comes to my dull backwater of a town, it's off to see

Staines Town v Dulwich Hamlet

on Tuesday Night.



FulhamDave
Youth Team Regular

Sep 17, 2017, 6:50 PM

Posts: 181
Location: Surrey
Team(s): Fulham, Staines Town


Views: 1740
Re: [pilgrim46] Monday 18th - Friday 22nd September or Reply Privately


In Reply To
Tuesday - Plymouth Marjon v Elburton Villa
Wednesday - Saltash United v Launceston


Thanks for alerting me to Saltash on Wednesday. Will be staying in Plymouth ahead of daughters graduation on Thursday. Have even got my pass stamped to attend the match Cool


Yorks Amateur
First Team Sub


Sep 17, 2017, 7:20 PM

Posts: 1135
Location: West Yorkshire
Team(s): Bradford City


Views: 1726
Re: [Spoff] Monday 18th - Friday 22nd September or Reply Privately

Tuesday 19 September - Northern Premier League - Division One North:

Ossett Town v South Shields

Mid table Ossett have lost both of their home league games but have won all four on the road! League leaders South Shields will fancy their chances of adding to Town's home woes. Hopefully, a decent game, with a pint of my favourite ale - Yorkshire Blonde - from the local brewery, my pre-match drink.


buncranaboy
Qatar World Cup bid member!


Sep 17, 2017, 8:26 PM

Posts: 16899
Location: South Birmingham
Team(s): Barnstoneworth United; Bostock Stanley


Views: 1694
Re: [Yorks Amateur] Monday 18th - Friday 22nd September or Reply Privately

Tuesday : a first visit in over 20 years and only my second ever to Keys Park for Hednesford Town vs Nantwich Town


royals26
Chelsea Transfer Target


Sep 17, 2017, 11:03 PM

Posts: 5864
Location: Reading
Team(s): Reading


Views: 1622
Re: [villan] Monday 18th - Friday 22nd September or Reply Privately

... not much scope for NL this MW - seems to be a designated County/League 'Cup' week and 'Duty calls' on Tue anyway:

If I make the effort and can escape inevitable 'domestics':

Mon: B&B Sen Cup H/I v NPT


Tue: CC R3 Royals v Swans


Wed: HSC R1 Cove v Hamble Club


cherryhopper
First Team Star

Sep 18, 2017, 12:19 AM

Posts: 2991
Location: The Premier League town of Bournemouth
Team(s): AFC Bournemouth, Verwood Town, Sunderland


Views: 1579
Re: [buncranaboy] Monday 18th - Friday 22nd September or Reply Privately

Tuesday:
AFC Bournemouth v Brighton & Hove Albion part 2
Carabao Cup 3rd Round

Friday:
Eggchasing - Glynneath v Cardiff Met (1930) - Welsh Championship
Can anyone who regularly uses the A465 Heads of the Valleys Road please let me know if the roadworks and 30 mph speed limit going on for miles west of Abergavenny have finished yet?


Feversham Lens
First Team Star


Sep 18, 2017, 8:11 AM

Posts: 2236
Location: York
Team(s): Not any more


Views: 1521
Re: [cherryhopper] Monday 18th - Friday 22nd September or Reply Privately

No great enthusiasm for visiting what is likely to be a fairly dull new ground, but it's close-ish and I have a work assignment in that area tomorrow (Tuesday). So, I'll stay at the coast an extra few hours to enjoy...

Scarborough Athletic versus Mossley (NPL Div One North)



Sporting (and other images) at https://www.flickr.com/photos/feversham/

Ground/Venue Totals:
Football 881; Rugby Union 239; Rugby League 203; Cricket 88; Speedway 53; Stock Cars 25; Grasstrack 15; Ice Hockey 15; Cycle Speedway 4; Greyhounds 2.

(This post was edited by Feversham Lens on Sep 18, 2017, 8:12 AM)


youngster
First Team Star

Sep 18, 2017, 10:59 AM

Posts: 2669
Location: The EAST
Team(s): Felixstowe & Walton Utd


Views: 1453
Re: [Feversham Lens] Monday 18th - Friday 22nd September or Reply Privately

Another heading for Scarborough on Tuesday.
Checked out the Central League stuff on the way, Donny are playing at their training ground, but Notts County ressies are at Ilkeston, rather watch a game at a ground so I'll head there.
Wednesday
After 3-4 hours at the wonderful Scarborough Cricket ground, I was planning on finishing the Northern League at Stockon, but a look on Highways England has put me off, can't face all the road closures and not get home until 03-00 so I'll revisit Lincoln United and drive home via Kings Lynn, at least I'll have the roads to myself.

(This post was edited by youngster on Sep 18, 2017, 11:00 AM)


Shambles
Junior Team Star


Sep 18, 2017, 2:48 PM

Posts: 94
Location: Medway
Team(s): Gillingham


Views: 1340
Re: [youngster] Monday 18th - Friday 22nd September or Reply Privately

Tuesday 19th September
Carabao Cup (Third Round)
West Ham United v Bolton Wanderers

Wednesday 20th September
Southern Counties East Football League Premier Division
Lordswood v Hollands & Blair

Games: 53
Goals: 169
Goal Average: 3.19
New Grounds: 8 (The New Saints, Crockenhill, Erith Town, Aveley, Herne Bay, Horley Town, Kent Football United, Barkingside)

Last Match:
Sunday 17th September
Emirates FA Cup (Second Qualifying Round)
Thamesmead Town 1 Billericay Town 1


SuperKev!
First Team Star


Sep 18, 2017, 7:19 PM

Posts: 1668
Location:
Team(s):


Views: 1239
Re: [Shambles] Monday 18th - Friday 22nd September or Reply Privately

Just a word of warning for anybody considering tomorrow's Gloucestershire Senior Cup tie between Gloucester City and Cheltenham Town at Hartpury College that it is a behind closed doors fixture.


buncranaboy
Qatar World Cup bid member!


Sep 18, 2017, 7:32 PM

Posts: 16899
Location: South Birmingham
Team(s): Barnstoneworth United; Bostock Stanley


Views: 1226
Re: [cherryhopper] Monday 18th - Friday 22nd September or Reply Privately

 
Can anyone who regularly uses the A465 Heads of the Valleys Road please let me know if the roadworks and 30 mph speed limit going on for miles west of Abergavenny have finished yet?


No - this will take years to complete but I've yet to experience a major hold-up using that route. Famous last words I know......


Linnetstowinit
Youth Team Sub

Sep 19, 2017, 7:35 AM

Posts: 131
Location: Runcorn
Team(s): Runcorn Linnets,Arsenal,Tranmere Rovers,Guernsey


Views: 1100
Re: [buncranaboy] Monday 18th - Friday 22nd September or Reply Privately

RUNCORN LINNETS. v. AFC LIVERPOOL
NWCFL PREMIER LEAGUE
TUESDAY 19th SEPTEMBER 19.45
====================

2nd placed Linnets try and close the gap on the 100% Runcorn Town
in what could be a very competitive league this season with a strong possibility of 2 going up ( at long last)


halsteadhumbug
Youth Team Sub


Sep 19, 2017, 4:14 PM

Posts: 128
Location: Halstead, Essex
Team(s): Halstead Town


Views: 955
Re: [Linnetstowinit] Monday 18th - Friday 22nd September or Reply Privately

Stansted v Halstead Town Essex Senior Cup



Counting down to returning to Argentina for 3 months in 2019.


Oztraveller
Ballboy/girl

Sep 20, 2017, 8:16 AM

Posts: 9
Location: Sydney, Australia (Lewisham on holidays)
Team(s): QPR


Views: 835
Re: [halsteadhumbug] Monday 18th - Friday 22nd September or Reply Privately

Wednesday: Sporting Bengal v Whadham Lodge (another Essex ground to add)



New grounds this trip (UK): 3
Last Game: Sep 2017
Total grounds (UK): 37


Jaundiced Hack
First Team Star

Sep 20, 2017, 10:35 AM

Posts: 1478
Location:
Team(s):


Views: 803
Re: [Oztraveller] Monday 18th - Friday 22nd September or Reply Privately

Tonight, Wednesday
Probably the Western League's game of the season.
FA Cup Replay.
Cabreef v Bridport with winners, (and me), to visit the wonderful Clarence Park at St Albans City.

Friday
TBC Argyle U18 v Yeovil U18 at Tavistock FC, possibly 1pm.


bmavfc
Youth Team Star

Sep 20, 2017, 4:33 PM

Posts: 375
Location: Peterborough
Team(s): Aston Villa


Views: 732
Re: [Jaundiced Hack] Monday 18th - Friday 22nd September or Reply Privately

FA youth Cup
Peterborough Sports v Corby Town


PaulC
Man City Transfer Target!


Sep 21, 2017, 7:53 PM

Posts: 9440
Location: Ayrshire, Midlothian
Team(s): AFC Darwen, Troon, Ayr Utd, Burnley


Views: 587
Re: [scottsas] Monday 18th - Friday 22nd September or Reply Privately

[replt]
Friday Maryhill v Irvine Meadow, Junior Cup


Another for this one if very complicated travel arrangements work out.

KO 7pm.


Jaundiced Hack
First Team Star

Sep 21, 2017, 10:31 PM

Posts: 1478
Location:
Team(s):


Views: 559
Re: [Jaundiced Hack] Monday 18th - Friday 22nd September or Reply Privately

Argyke U18 v Yeovil U18 is now at Harpers Park, behind Home Park, at 2pm tomorrow and not at Tavy