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Welsh Premier to be cut to 10 clubs?



gcnc
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Welsh Premier to be cut to 10 clubs? or Reply Privately

From www.welsh-premier.com

THE Welsh Premier board is considering radical plans to reduce the league to just 10 teams.
According to the Western Mail, the controversial move was discussed at a meeting yesterday and will be debated fully by the 18 club chairmen next month.
The proposal is seen as a counter to a plan put forward by Alun Evans to invite reserve sides from the 'big three' to join the domestic top flight, a move which was vehemently opposed by the majority of clubs.
Under the new plan, the league would be reduced to just 10 clubs, with a second division of 10 lesser sides, modelled on the Scottish Premier League where teams play each other four times a season.
There would be end-of-season play-offs between the sides finishing at the bottom of the Welsh top flight and those at the top of the second division to determine promotion and relegation.
The reduction from 18 clubs to 10 could be achieved by natural wastage when strict new Uefa criteria come into force at the start of season 2009/10 and there is a general acceptance within the league that it needs to change to improve public perception.
"A paper has been put together suggesting the possibility of two leagues of 10 teams and is being discussed by our board of directors," secretary John Deakin told the Western Mail.
“It is designed to ensure quality, rather than quantity, and the initial feedback we have had from clubs is a positive one.
“Yes, teams would have to play each other four times a year, but the Scottish League is not a bad one to model ourselves upon.
“We need to look at the success across the water in Ireland, where they have streamlined their league to great effect by reducing the number of sides.”
“We are looking to change because, although we have made significant progress, things have plateaued out.
“Now something really needs to be done to improve the league."


Anybody in Scotland (or elsewhere) like to offer a view?


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Re: [gcnc] Welsh Premier to be cut to 10 clubs? or Reply Privately

Well, if it is to be two tier would it not be best to regionalise the 2nd tier. 10 teams in 2 regions?

There are no big clubs in the competition so it is hardly a model on Scotland's league.



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Degerloch
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Re: [modelhobbies] Welsh Premier to be cut to 10 clubs? or Reply Privately

Playing each team four times in the league each season is just rubbish. In Scotland the teams know each other inside out and have the real possibility of meeting 7 (seven) times a season. The Premier Division was set up over 30 years ago in order to have fewer meaningless mid-table games in the latter part of the season and to improve the quality of the football. It hasn't worked. The SPL had to introduce a split in order to give teams something to play for/avoid, and the quality is much the same. The money circulates round a fewer number of clubs, making the drop down a division a financial disaster.
2xHome+2xAway=Dull,dull,dull.


Russell
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Mar 20, 2008, 12:00 PM

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Re: [Degerloch] Welsh Premier to be cut to 10 clubs? or Reply Privately

I think the Welsh were talking about a year ago of switching to summer football, but they seem to have dropped that plan.


(This post was edited by Russell on Mar 20, 2008, 12:00 PM)


leohoenig
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Mar 20, 2008, 12:51 PM

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Re: [Russell] Welsh Premier to be cut to 10 clubs? or Reply Privately

The reduction from 18 clubs to 10 could be achieved by natural wastage when strict new Uefa criteria come into force at the start of season 2009/10 and there is a general acceptance within the league that it needs to change to improve public perception

I love this line, as it is a clear attempt to push the responsibility onto someone else. I have read through all the bumpf I can handle from UEFA web sites. They certainly wish to apply stricter criteria to clubs playing in European competition, and have recommended that the UEFA licensing procedures be adapted by the leagues - but I have seen no signs that they are to force these rules on any national leagues. (Can't see the Poles or the Bulgarians having many teams in their top divisions if they do). UEFA did give a grant a few years back to help the clubs adapt to licencing procedures. Nice new Offices the FA of Wales haveMad

Not for the first time this season, the first time Welsh League clubs hear of a plan is when they read about it in the paper



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juanjo
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Mar 26, 2008, 8:42 PM

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Re: [Degerloch] Welsh Premier to be cut to 10 clubs? or Reply Privately


In Reply To
Playing each team four times in the league each season is just rubbish. In Scotland the teams know each other inside out and have the real possibility of meeting 7 (seven) times a season. The Premier Division was set up over 30 years ago in order to have fewer meaningless mid-table games in the latter part of the season and to improve the quality of the football. It hasn't worked. The SPL had to introduce a split in order to give teams something to play for/avoid, and the quality is much the same. The money circulates round a fewer number of clubs, making the drop down a division a financial disaster.
2xHome+2xAway=Dull,dull,dull.



Wasn't part of it just down to making more money as well - better for Celtic and Rangers (plus Hearts, Hibs, Aberdeen etc) to play each other four times, rather than just twice and have to play teams like Clyde as well.


Fanatic
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Mar 26, 2008, 8:54 PM

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Re: [juanjo] Welsh Premier to be cut to 10 clubs? or Reply Privately


In Reply To

In Reply To
Playing each team four times in the league each season is just rubbish. In Scotland the teams know each other inside out and have the real possibility of meeting 7 (seven) times a season. The Premier Division was set up over 30 years ago in order to have fewer meaningless mid-table games in the latter part of the season and to improve the quality of the football. It hasn't worked. The SPL had to introduce a split in order to give teams something to play for/avoid, and the quality is much the same. The money circulates round a fewer number of clubs, making the drop down a division a financial disaster.
2xHome+2xAway=Dull,dull,dull.



Wasn't part of it just down to making more money as well - better for Celtic and Rangers (plus Hearts, Hibs, Aberdeen etc) to play each other four times, rather than just twice and have to play teams like Clyde as well.



Are you insinuating that "reform" of a top division is about making more money. Shock horror! Wink


Seagull
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Mar 27, 2008, 6:39 PM

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Re: [Fanatic] Welsh Premier to be cut to 10 clubs? or Reply Privately

Whilst a top, National dvision of 10 clubs just may have some merit, a second national tier of 10 would be financial suicide for the vast mjaority of clubs involved. Level two needs to be split geographically.

Oh, hang on a minute, that's what we have already!

What chance the reality being loads of relegations back to CA and WL1 and 10 "elite" clubs remaining?

I'm not knocking it though as the majority of clubs in the WPL as it stands find it very hard indeed to balance the books. And if the reported possible demise of the BBC sponsored Premier Cup is true, that's another income stream down the tubes.

Without the A470 magically transforming itself into a motorway I don't see how the national division stacks up financially, it would be better to have two regional leagues and then have a play off at the end to determine the national champions.


Veteran
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Mar 27, 2008, 8:39 PM

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Re: [Seagull] Welsh Premier to be cut to 10 clubs? or

Just a thought - would a National League of 10 or 12 clubs be more viable in Wales if it included Cardiff, Swansea and Wrexham - first teams I mean (of course) ?


leohoenig
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Re: [Seagull] Welsh Premier to be cut to 10 clubs? or Reply Privately

When the FAW and Welsh Premier League finally decide how the league should be run, then it also needs to take into consideration how the UEFA Cup is being reformed. From 2009, both the second and third placed clubs in the WPL will be in the UEFA Cup, (the Intertoto cup being scrapped after this season). However, the UEFA Cup will start for these teams as early at 17th June.

The Welsh Cup winners will start two weeks after the teams entering the UEFA cup from the league, while if they can keep themselves off the lowest rungs of the ladder, the Welsh Champions will play their first Champions League matches two weeks later again. Is it about time the Welsh considered something of a more innovative calendar in order that the European matches do not fall in the middle of their close season?



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Steveb
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Re: [leohoenig] Welsh Premier to be cut to 10 clubs? or Reply Privately


In Reply To
Is it about time the Welsh considered something of a more innovative calendar in order that the European matches do not fall in the middle of their close season?


Instead of debating a radical change to a summer season, I can't understand why the Welsh Premier League can't simply start the season in early June and finish in about March. It'd give teams competitive matches before playing in Europe without disrupting things too much.

On a similar theme, surely it'd be fairer if UEFA seeded the European qualifying rounds so teams still in their close season played eachother, and teams who were mid season played eachother. As I understand it, draws are currently regionalised "north" and "south". Welsh and Irish sides are put in the north and so often drawn against Scandinavian or Baltic sides who are well into their seasons.




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(This post was edited by Steveb on Mar 27, 2008, 11:50 PM)


Aggedor
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In Reply To

Instead of debating a radical change to a summer season, I can't understand why the Welsh Premier League can't simply start the season in early June and finish in about March. It'd give teams competitive matches before playing in Europe without disrupting things too much.


This is just a great idea. It's summer football by the back door. The WPL have already rejected it a number of times, but surely this is the way for Welsh football to go, particularly as they are determined to actually produce some decent results in Europe.


gcnc
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Re: [Aggedor] Welsh Premier to be cut to 10 clubs? or Reply Privately


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In Reply To

Instead of debating a radical change to a summer season, I can't understand why the Welsh Premier League can't simply start the season in early June and finish in about March. It'd give teams competitive matches before playing in Europe without disrupting things too much.


This is just a great idea. It's summer football by the back door. The WPL have already rejected it a number of times, but surely this is the way for Welsh football to go, particularly as they are determined to actually produce some decent results in Europe.

Yes, on the face of it, it's a great idea. It would also mean all-year round football to watch for those of us who watch Welsh clubs in the English pyramid as wellSmile. But there are practical difficulties. To maintain the Welsh pyramid system (such as it is !!!) such a season would need to then be followed by the Welsh League, Cymru Alliance etc. How many of these teams (let alone Welshpool & Neath) share their grounds with cricket clubs? A great number of players play cricket in the Summer too, and might not be available for football.


gcnc
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Apr 14, 2008, 8:33 AM

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Re: [gcnc] Welsh Premier to be cut to 10 clubs? or Reply Privately

Latest update, via www.welsh-premier.com

WELSH Premier chairmen have agreed by 10 votes to four to split the league into two divisions of 10 clubs, but not until season 2010/11.
The member clubs, who will qualify on the basis of licensing and ground criteria, will play each other four times each season.
The meeting was held at The New Saints' Park Hall to consider the radical plans for restructuring, with a reduction in size driven as much as anything by the difficulty clubs will face meeting the stricter licensing criteria which come into force
in 2009


Sarumio
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Apr 14, 2008, 9:34 AM

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Re: [gcnc] Welsh Premier to be cut to 10 clubs? or Reply Privately

10 votes to 4?

Surely there are 18 chairmen? Which 4 clubs don't get a vote?

I wonder if any of the Nay voters will attempt to (re)join the English Pyramid?


Richard Rundle
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Apr 14, 2008, 10:25 AM

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Re: [Sarumio] Welsh Premier to be cut to 10 clubs? or Reply Privately


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10 votes to 4?

Surely there are 18 chairmen? Which 4 clubs don't get a vote?

I wonder if any of the Nay voters will attempt to (re)join the English Pyramid?


One of the 4 naysayers was NEWI Cefn Druids whose precedessors haven't been part of the English pyramid for over 100 years. I would guess the others who were against the plan were the smaller clubs or those who had the most to lose from seeing TNS, Llanelli, Rhyl etc. split off.

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Seagull
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Re: [Richard Rundle] Welsh Premier to be cut to 10 clubs? or Reply Privately

I don't think there's much wrong with a ten team top div, but a second national tier of ten, without some major financial assistance, is suicide. What's the betting those that voted no, or abstained, were the ones most likely to end up in the second tier.

I really hope I'm proved wrong, but I think the second tier is doomed to fail.


Sarumio
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Re: [Richard Rundle] Welsh Premier to be cut to 10 clubs? or Reply Privately


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10 votes to 4?

Surely there are 18 chairmen? Which 4 clubs don't get a vote?

I wonder if any of the Nay voters will attempt to (re)join the English Pyramid?


One of the 4 naysayers was NEWI Cefn Druids whose precedessors haven't been part of the English pyramid for over 100 years. I would guess the others who were against the plan were the smaller clubs or those who had the most to lose from seeing TNS, Llanelli, Rhyl etc. split off.

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Richard



And why didnt 4 clubs vote?


KnowYourMarket
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Re: [Sarumio] Welsh Premier to be cut to 10 clubs? or Reply Privately

Would it not make more sense to go for 10 in top division plus 2 divs of 10 in the second tier (1 North and South)

10 team national 2nd division does seem bizarre and I cannot understand the logic of all of the travelling for that level.



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deano_atfc
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Re: [modelhobbies] Welsh Premier to be cut to 10 clubs? or Reply Privately

Hopefully this will be the making of the Welsh Premier League. I think the idea is to sort out the infastructure and grounds of the top tier clubs before turning their attention to the second tier, and i like the idea of clubs being dragged up by their collars to meet stringent licensing criteria. One this that worries me though is where the money is going to come from to bring the clubs up to scratch. The WPL has always been underfunded by the FAW, even when UEFA gave the FAW £1.5 million to spend on bringing the WPL stadia up to scratch a couple of seasons back, the FAW spent £1.2 million on new offices and gave just £300,000 to the WPL.



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R.S.Cavendish
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Apr 16, 2008, 10:30 AM

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Re: [deano_atfc] Welsh Premier to be cut to 10 clubs? or Reply Privately

............... but surely the other major announcement of switching to summer football is also of importance ?


deano_atfc
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Re: [R.S.Cavendish] Welsh Premier to be cut to 10 clubs? or Reply Privately


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............... but surely the other major announcement of switching to summer football is also of importance ?


where have you heard that? I know that the clubs took a vote last week and they voted 7 to 1 in favour of a switch, 10 clubs didn't bother voting. The clubs then agreed to talk about it at their own board meeting and come back at a later date and discuss it again amongst themselves



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R.S.Cavendish
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Apr 16, 2008, 10:56 AM

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Re: [deano_atfc] Welsh Premier to be cut to 10 clubs? or Reply Privately

It was reported as such in last night's SWANSEA EVENING POST.


Richard Rundle
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Re: [gcnc] Welsh Premier to be cut to 10 clubs? or Reply Privately


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Latest update, via www.welsh-premier.com

WELSH Premier chairmen have agreed by 10 votes to four to split the league into two divisions of 10 clubs, but not until season 2010/11.
The member clubs, who will qualify on the basis of licensing and ground criteria, will play each other four times each season.
The meeting was held at The New Saints' Park Hall to consider the radical plans for restructuring, with a reduction in size driven as much as anything by the difficulty clubs will face meeting the stricter licensing criteria which come into force
in 2009



This week's "Football Traveller" has the vote at 16-2.

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Richard


Seagull
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Re: [Richard Rundle] Welsh Premier to be cut to 10 clubs? or Reply Privately


In Reply To

In Reply To
Latest update, via www.welsh-premier.com

WELSH Premier chairmen have agreed by 10 votes to four to split the league into two divisions of 10 clubs, but not until season 2010/11.
The member clubs, who will qualify on the basis of licensing and ground criteria, will play each other four times each season.
The meeting was held at The New Saints' Park Hall to consider the radical plans for restructuring, with a reduction in size driven as much as anything by the difficulty clubs will face meeting the stricter licensing criteria which come into force
in 2009



This week's "Football Traveller" has the vote at 16-2.

--
Richard


Sounds a bit like: you are free to vote how you wish, but you'll keep voting til you get it right!!


dB>
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Apr 25, 2008, 2:29 PM

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Re: [Seagull] Welsh Premier to be cut to 10 clubs? or

Votes counted by a certain Mr. R Mugabe?



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yorkieexile
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Re: [dB>] Welsh Premier to be cut to 10 clubs? or Reply Privately

Not unless the meeting was at least 3 weeks ago


drastic
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Re: [gcnc] Welsh Premier to be cut to 10 clubs? or Reply Privately


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From www.welsh-premier.com

THE Welsh Premier board is considering radical plans to reduce the league to just 10 teams.
According to the Western Mail, the controversial move was discussed at a meeting yesterday and will be debated fully by the 18 club chairmen next month.
The proposal is seen as a counter to a plan put forward by Alun Evans to invite reserve sides from the 'big three' to join the domestic top flight, a move which was vehemently opposed by the majority of clubs.
Under the new plan, the league would be reduced to just 10 clubs, with a second division of 10 lesser sides, modelled on the Scottish Premier League where teams play each other four times a season.
There would be end-of-season play-offs between the sides finishing at the bottom of the Welsh top flight and those at the top of the second division to determine promotion and relegation.
The reduction from 18 clubs to 10 could be achieved by natural wastage when strict new Uefa criteria come into force at the start of season 2009/10 and there is a general acceptance within the league that it needs to change to improve public perception.
"A paper has been put together suggesting the possibility of two leagues of 10 teams and is being discussed by our board of directors," secretary John Deakin told the Western Mail.
“It is designed to ensure quality, rather than quantity, and the initial feedback we have had from clubs is a positive one.
“Yes, teams would have to play each other four times a year, but the Scottish League is not a bad one to model ourselves upon.
“We need to look at the success across the water in Ireland, where they have streamlined their league to great effect by reducing the number of sides.”
“We are looking to change because, although we have made significant progress, things have plateaued out.
“Now something really needs to be done to improve the league."


Anybody in Scotland (or elsewhere) like to offer a view?


Just wondering if the plan to split into a two tier Premier League is a way of trying to entice 2 Welsh clubs from English non-league. As there is only 18 sides in the current Welsh Premier they will need to either promote 2 clubs from the lower league or 'invite' 2 playing in England.

Both Merthyr Tydfil and Colwyn Bay have (as far as I know) been plying their trade at various levels of non-league English football for some time. Perhaps the Welsh FA think they may be interested in joining a streamlined Welsh Premier with the chance to win FA Cup/League Cup, compete in Europe etc.


rhylfan
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Re: [drastic] Welsh Premier to be cut to 10 clubs? or Reply Privately

The bay's ground would need some money spending on it!