Home: Archive: 2012-13 CUP Results:
London Sunday Intermediate Cup 2012-2013



stevegraze
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Sep 5, 2012, 1:47 PM

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London Sunday Intermediate Cup 2012-2013 or Reply Privately

London Sunday Intermediate Cup
Fixtures
List of clubs with byes
Round 1
1. 23/09/12 Elms F.C. (First) VS Shoots & Leaves F.C. (First)
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2. 23/09/12 Athletico Annies F.C. (First) VS E.Y. International F.C. (First)
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3. 23/09/12 Lord Stanley F.C. (First) VS Lsportc F.C. (First)
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4. 23/09/12 Convoys F.C. (First) VS A.C. Manor Park (First)
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5. 23/09/12 Koture F.C. (First) VS Politics F.C. (First)
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6. 23/09/12 Parklife F.C. (First) VS Mass F.C. (First)
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7. 23/09/12 Cetinkaya Cinar F.C. (First) VS Enfield Crusaders F.C. (First)
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8. 23/09/12 Norstar F.C. (A Team) VS Apoel F.C. (UK) (Reserves)
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9. 23/09/12 Albion Manor F.C. (First) VS F.C. Team (A Team)
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Round 2
10. 21/10/12 Winner of Match 8 VS Antalyaspor (UK) F.C. (First)
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11. 21/10/12 Pendayia FC (First) VS Heegan F.C. (First)
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12. 21/10/12 Danson Albion F.C. (A Team) VS Cobden Athletic F.C. (First)
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13. 21/10/12 Reama F.C. (First) VS Brotherhood F.C. (First)
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14. 21/10/12 Sabanoh '97 F.C. (First) VS Norton F.C. (First)
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15. 21/10/12 Winner of Match 7 VS Ship F.C. (First)
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16. 21/10/12 Inter Asia F.C. (First) VS Bullers F.C. (First)
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17. 21/10/12 Hatch Lane United F.C. (First) VS Faithfold F.C. (A Team)
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18. 18/11/12 Brixton Old Boys F.C. (First) VS Winner of Match 1
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19. 18/11/12 Westminster Wanderers F.C. (1st XI) VS Winner of Match 6
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20. 18/11/12 Winner of Match 9 VS Anorthosis F.C. (First)
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21. 18/11/12 Turkmenkoy Aydin Spor Kulubu F.C. (First) VS E.Y. International F.C. (First)
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22. 18/11/12 Winner of Match 3 VS F.C. Marcelona (First)
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23. 18/11/12 Winner of Match 5 VS F.C. Alpha (First)
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24. 18/11/12 Northumberland Park Rangers F.C. (A) VS Southern Cross F.C. (First)
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25. 18/11/12 Barking Tigers F.C. (First) VS Winner of Match 4
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(This post was edited by stevegraze on Sep 5, 2012, 1:54 PM)


HughesVideo
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Sep 7, 2012, 12:31 AM

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Re: [stevegraze] London Sunday Intermediate Cup 2012-2013 or Reply Privately

If you are wondering where Edmonton Rovers are in that draw, we have been demoted by the London F.A. into the Sunday Junior Cup this season because we are 'not good enough'.

Bit harsh I think, but at least we might have a chance to progress past the First Round this time. Wink



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stevegraze
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Sep 7, 2012, 11:12 AM

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Re: [HughesVideo] London Sunday Intermediate Cup 2012-2013 or Reply Privately

Ouch - that is harsh. That said - you have a good draw in the first round against Lord Morpeth FC. They play in Div 4 (bottom division - i.e. 5th division) of the Hackney & Leyton League. Before that, they were in Division 1 of the East London Sunday League.

Being entered into the Junior Cup might be a blessing in disguise for you as it will give your team a better chance of progressing far in county cup competition this year.

Do you think the LFA "punished" you after the e-mails we sent them asking them to re-classify clubs in the LFA county cups?! Wink At least they listened to one of my recommendations and demoted Kensington Athletic from the Intermediate Cup to the Junior Cup!


In Reply To
If you are wondering where Edmonton Rovers are in that draw, we have been demoted by the London F.A. into the Sunday Junior Cup this season because we are 'not good enough'.

Bit harsh I think, but at least we might have a chance to progress past the First Round this time. Wink



HughesVideo
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Re: [stevegraze] London Sunday Intermediate Cup 2012-2013 or Reply Privately

The remaining Second Round matches in this competition take place this coming Sunday (18th November).

I haven't really studied the teams taking part as my own team are in the Sunday Junior Cup this season instead of the Intermediate, but I strongly fancy one of either Cetinkaya Cinar, Lord Stanley or FC Alpha to win it, or at least get through to the Final.

Cetinkaya Cinar are currently in mid-table in the KOPA League, but they beat a very strong Enfield Crusaders side 3-2 in the First Round and then demolished The Ship 7-1 in their Second Round match in October.
Enfield Crusaders are currently top of Division One in the Waltham Sunday League and my team are playing them this coming Sunday.

FC Alpha are playing Away to Turkish Community Football Federation side Koture this coming Sunday, presumably at Pymmes Park in an Edmonton/Enfield derby. Koture are a mid-table side in the top division of their League, but they won 7-0 in the First Round and reached the Semi-Finals of this competition last season where they only lost 1-0 to the eventual winners (and fellow TCFF side) Yalova.
We played FC Alpha on Sunday just gone in a Waltham Sunday League Division One match and lost 1-0, but they are a quality side and 'murdered us' in the Second Half to be honest. Highlights are here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wU30bC-aG0g.
Their game against Koture should be a cracking match and well worth watching.

Unfortunately the winners will then be playing Cetinkaya Cinar in the Third Round ! That's a real blow for the Edmonton/Enfield area teams and it maybe paves the way for some of the South London-based sides (who I know nothing about) to go far.



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stevegraze
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Nov 17, 2012, 11:22 PM

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Re: [HughesVideo] London Sunday Intermediate Cup 2012-2013 or Reply Privately

Cetinkaya Cinar and Lord Stanley must fancy their chances. Sabanoh 97 could be dark horses. They got to the quarter-final last year and put up a good fight against Lapton before losing. They also won a Kent/south London county cup before.

I have to say - this must be the weakest Intermediate Cup in a long time (as a consequence of the LFA finally moving all the best teams up to the Challenge Cup).


HughesVideo
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Nov 20, 2012, 10:22 PM

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Re: [stevegraze] London Sunday Intermediate Cup 2012-2013 or Reply Privately

Here's the draw for the Third Round...to take place on Sunday 16th December: http://www.londonfa.com/...cup/fixtures#round-3

Koture beat FC Alpha 6-3 in their Second Round match on Sunday. I have no idea what happened there, as I expected FC Alpha to win that one, having played against them the week before.
I believe it was an afternoon kick-off, so maybe that had something to do with it ? FC Alpha play their League matches in the mornings.

Lord Stanley beating FC Marcelona 5-2 was no surprise.
There were impressive wins for Convoys (7-2 Away to Barking Tigers) and Southern Cross (3-0 Away to Northumberland Park Rangers). Both of those teams would have been decent opponents, so it looks as if Convoys (in particular) and Southern Cross could be teams to watch out for. Convoys were Runners-Up in this competition two seasons ago.

Koture are now at Home to Cetinkaya Cinar in the Third Round and the Winners of that will then be Away to Lord Stanley or Bullers (who beat Inter Asia 8-1 Away in the Second Round), so some good teams are going to get knocked out there.

Convoys are in the other half of the draw, so I'm sticking my neck out and going for a Koture v. Convoys Final.



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HughesVideo
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Re: [HughesVideo] London Sunday Intermediate Cup 2012-2013 or Reply Privately


Quote
Koture beat FC Alpha 6-3 in their Second Round match on Sunday. I have no idea what happened there, as I expected FC Alpha to win that one, having played against them the week before.
I believe it was an afternoon kick-off, so maybe that had something to do with it ? FC Alpha play their League matches in the mornings.


Apparently both teams agreed to kick-off at 12.00. mid-day (because it was played at Pymmes Park in Edmonton where they play three matches on the same ('grass' !) pitch one after the other (10:00, 12:00, 14:00) in one day), but the Ref was a 'jobsworth' and told them they had to wait until 2.00.p.m. because it says in the London FA's Sunday Cup rules that matches must kick-off no later than 10.30.a.m. in the morning or no earlier than 2.00.p.m. in the afternoon !

FC Alpha were already missing several key players because it was a mid-day kick-off, then three more had to leave because they had other commitments at 2.00.p.m.
They ended up having to put an outfield player in goal who was presumably useless.
Apparently it was pitch black when the game finished. I think it went to Extra-Time as I know it was 3-3 at one stage.

The Referee was Turkish (according to FC Alpha). Wink



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stevegraze
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Nov 30, 2012, 5:52 AM

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Re: [HughesVideo] London Sunday Intermediate Cup 2012-2013 or Reply Privately

Why can't the LFA bother to post the results of their county cups this season? They simply give the draws for each round, without bothering to update the results from the previous round!

Also, what are Koture, Cetinkya, Brotherhood, Pendayia, Cobden Athletic and Faithfold doing in this cup? They are all top division teams and should be in the Challenge Cup. I think one of the Turkish/Cypriot league teams (incorrectly!) in this cup will reach the final (Koture, Cetinkya, Brotherhood, Pendayia). Still maintain that Sabanoh 97 might surprise a few.


HughesVideo
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Dec 3, 2012, 2:11 PM

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Re: [stevegraze] London Sunday Intermediate Cup 2012-2013 or Reply Privately


Quote
Why can't the LFA bother to post the results of their county cups this season? They simply give the draws for each round, without bothering to update the results from the previous round!


They are putting the results up...and fairly quickly actually (compared to normal).

The problem is that they seem to have separate pages for Results and the Fixtures. If you click on the Fixtures links, it lists the Fixtures for every round even after they have all been played. If you click on the Results links, you can't see the forthcoming fixtures as a result of those Results...if you see what I mean ? Wink

It needs one page listing all the results up-to-date with the unplayed matches from those rounds mixed in, then the draw/fixtures for the remaining rounds following underneath...but that's presumably the fault of the (rubbish in my opinion) software that all County FA's have to use nowadays. Not the London FA's fault.



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Shoots
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Feb 11, 2013, 8:18 PM

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Re: [HughesVideo] London Sunday Intermediate Cup 2012-2013 or Reply Privately

Anyone know the score of the Stanley V Cetinkaya game?

Shoots beat southern cross 2-1


HughesVideo
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Feb 13, 2013, 6:40 PM

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Re: [Shoots] London Sunday Intermediate Cup 2012-2013 or Reply Privately


Quote
Anyone know the score of the Stanley V Cetinkaya game?


I wonder if this is one of these 'disputed' games that crop up from time to time where the London FA keeps everybody in the dark by just leaving the original date that the game was due to be played up on their website and there being no sign of a re-arrangement ? No mention that the game was abandoned or one of the teams played ineligible players...that sort of thing. Then all of a sudden the team waiting to play the winners suddenly gets confirmation in the post of who they are playing.

It's very difficult to tell with Lord Stanley and Cetinkaya Cinar, as neither of them appear to have a club website, while the Leagues they play in never mention County Cup results.
Maybe they have pages on Facebook or Twitter ?



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Shoots
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Feb 24, 2013, 7:20 PM

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Re: [HughesVideo] London Sunday Intermediate Cup 2012-2013 or Reply Privately

We are supposed to be playing the winner of this one next week.

Does anyone have any clues as to the quality of these teams.

I hope Stanley don't win as this would mean almost 1 1/2 hrs journey before a ball is even kicked.

Don't Essex have their own cup?


London Harrier
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Feb 25, 2013, 6:31 PM

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Re: [HughesVideo] London Sunday Intermediate Cup 2012-2013 or Reply Privately


In Reply To
If you are wondering where Edmonton Rovers are in that draw, we have been demoted by the London F.A. into the Sunday Junior Cup this season because we are 'not good enough'.

Bit harsh I think, but at least we might have a chance to progress past the First Round this time. Wink


I see the final is at Wingate & Finchley on April 7th.

How is intermediate distinguished from junior anyway?


HughesVideo
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Feb 25, 2013, 7:01 PM

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Re: [Shoots] London Sunday Intermediate Cup 2012-2013 or Reply Privately


In Reply To
We are supposed to be playing the winner of this one next week.

Does anyone have any clues as to the quality of these teams.

I hope Stanley don't win as this would mean almost 1 1/2 hrs journey before a ball is even kicked.

Don't Essex have their own cup?

You are playing Cetinkaya Cinar from the KOPA League.
Not sure if this link will work: http://www.kopaleague.com/...tid=8&Itemid=860
They beat Lord Stanley on penalties in their Quarter-Final yesterday. It was 2-2 After Extra Time.

I think Cetinkaya Cinar now play on the 3G pitch at the New River Sports Centre in Wood Green. They used to play at Bush Hill Park in Enfield when we played them about 3 or 4 years ago. We beat them 1-0 in a Pre-Season Friendly.



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stevegraze
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Feb 25, 2013, 7:05 PM

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Re: [London Harrier] London Sunday Intermediate Cup 2012-2013 or Reply Privately

There are three LFA Sunday Cups - in decreasing order of seniority:

  • Challenge Cup - for Premier/elite teams. Pretty much step 4-5 football. Most teams consist of semi-pro Saturday players.
  • Intermediate Cup - mostly teams in Div 1 (i.e. second tier) of their league.
  • Junior Cup - for lower division teams.

That is the way it is SUPPOSED to be. However the LFA does not always get the gradings right and every now and then, Premier Div teams slip through the cracks and get put in the Junior or Intermediate Cups (e.g. Yalova!), or lower division clubs end up in the Intermediate Cup. We have made our displeasure at this known, and have debated the issue before at: http://www.nonleaguematters.co.uk/...22%20premier;#377795


Quote
How is intermediate distinguished from junior anyway?



HughesVideo
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Re: [London Harrier] London Sunday Intermediate Cup 2012-2013 or Reply Privately


Quote
I see the final is at Wingate & Finchley on April 7th.

How is intermediate distinguished from junior anyway?


In London FA-affiliated Sunday League football, for London FA Sunday Cup competitions, you generally have three levels....Senior/Challenge Cup, Intermediate Cup and Junior Cup.
Senior/Challenge is generally for top division teams in the stronger Sunday Leagues, Intermediate is generally for other top division or next-division down teams, and Junior is supposed to be for teams in lower divisions. It doesn't always work like that though, as a lot of teams suddenly become 'good' or 'bad' once the season starts !

It is nothing to do with age (e.g. Over-30's/21-30/Under-21's), if that's what you are thinking ? Wink



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stevegraze
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Feb 25, 2013, 8:29 PM

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Re: [Shoots] London Sunday Intermediate Cup 2012-2013 or Reply Privately

Essex (and other county FAs) do have their own county cups. However some teams that are close to border areas between different counties often: (a) play in a league in one county, but enter a different county FA's county cup (e.g. Highgate Albion and BOBM from London, playing in the Middx county FA's Sunday cups); or (b) some teams play in multiple county cups in different counties. Examples:

Apoel (Hertfordshire and London)
Barnes Albion (won the Surrey AND Middlesex Sunday Premier Cups in the same season)
Baldon Sports (Kent and London)
FC Belstone (won both the Hertfordshire and Middlesex Premier Cups in 2011)
Burnt Oak Builders Merchants (Middlesex and London)
Dees (Surrey and London)
Hatcham (Kent and London)
Highgate Albion (Middlesex and London)
Lambeth All Stars (Surrey and London)
North London Olympians (Middlesex and London)

Another reason to avoid playing Lord Stanley (apart from distance) is the fact that they won the Junior Cup last season and are a very good team.


Quote
Don't Essex have their own cup?



(This post was edited by stevegraze on Feb 25, 2013, 8:30 PM)


Shoots
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Re: [stevegraze] London Sunday Intermediate Cup 2012-2013 or Reply Privately

Thanks for the info hughesvideo, much appreciated.

I think my team has done pretty well to get this far, we are just a bunch of decent/average players that have never played at any level other than Sunday league, when i read your posts about how teams from the junior cup have players playing levels 2,3 & 4, makes me believe the junior cup might have been stronger then the inter.

I think we have been lucky with the draw as we haven't faced a strong team yet, apart maybe from Southern Cross who under estimated us, as we are in the same league.

But it looks as if we will have our work cut out for us agains't Cetinkaya Cinar


HughesVideo
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Re: [Shoots] London Sunday Intermediate Cup 2012-2013 or Reply Privately


In Reply To
I think my team has done pretty well to get this far, we are just a bunch of decent/average players that have never played at any level other than Sunday league, when i read your posts about how teams from the junior cup have players playing levels 2,3 & 4, makes me believe the junior cup might have been stronger then the inter.


We played in the LFA Sunday Intermediate Cup for about 8 seasons before the London FA dumped us in the Junior for this season, and I can honestly say that all five teams we played in the Junior this season were all better or at least as good as well over half the teams we have played in the Intermediate during the past 8 seasons.

The main reason for that is that in Sunday football you get a heck of a lot of Step 3-7 players wanting an easy game with their mates on a Sunday instead of another tough game in a Premier Division or an LFA Sunday Challenge/Intermediate Cup match the day after they have played in a Semi-Pro match.
That certainly happens a lot in my team's League (the Waltham Sunday).
Also, the London FA don't make it compulsory for all clubs to enter their Sunday Cup competitions, so invariably you only get good well-organised teams entering any of the three. Teams from bottom divisions full of players with beer guts and people who can't kick the ball properly generally don't bother entering.

Shoots...did some of your players used to play for a (now-defunct) team called Olympia in your League ?
We played them at Riverside Lands in Chiswick in the LFA Sunday Intermediate Cup about 4 or 5 years ago and lost 3-2 (rather unluckily). I seem to remember their Manager saying something about them merging with or being connected with Shoots & Leaves in some way. I remember they had one player who must have been about 7 foot tall ! There's a picture of him here amongst this picture gallery: http://www.edmontonrovers.co.uk/...allery2008-2009.html



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Shoots
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Feb 26, 2013, 6:12 PM

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Re: [HughesVideo] London Sunday Intermediate Cup 2012-2013 or Reply Privately

We have two players from Olympia & yes one of them is 6ft 6" Spencer, but he doesn't play that often due to other commitments.

We have some former Chelsea Town players who used to be a well run outfit a few years back.

Unfortunately our keeper broke his leg last season & it has been impossible to replace him.

We managed to get two great players this season who had come down from Birmingham, they have made a big difference


stevegraze
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Re: [HughesVideo] London Sunday Intermediate Cup 2012-2013 or Reply Privately

I am very surprised by this. Watching your match videos, the teams you BEAT in the Junior Cup this season did not seem to have the same quality as other sides you played in the Intermediate Cup in previous seasons. e.g. I find it hard to imagine the reserve teams of Dees and LML, or Lord Morpeth being able to compete with your previous Intermediate cup opponents like Charlton Utd, Yavruvatan, Nacional de Londres, Eureka or Albion Manor. Of those teams most got to the latter rounds, won it (Eureka), got to the final (Yavruvatan), or were knocked out by teams that made it to the end (Albion Manor).

e.g. from the videos of your matches BEFORE you played MSS, I did not see a single player who I thought was good enough to play for any of your Intermediate Cup opponents.


Quote
We played in the LFA Sunday Intermediate Cup for about 8 seasons before the London FA dumped us in the Junior for this season, and I can honestly say that all five teams we played in the Junior this season were all better or at least as good as well over half the teams we have played in the Intermediate during the past 8 seasons.



HughesVideo
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Re: [stevegraze] London Sunday Intermediate Cup 2012-2013 or Reply Privately


Quote
We played in the LFA Sunday Intermediate Cup for about 8 seasons before the London FA dumped us in the Junior for this season, and I can honestly say that all five teams we played in the Junior this season were all better or at least as good as well over half the teams we have played in the Intermediate during the past 8 seasons.



In Reply To
I am very surprised by this. Watching your match videos, the teams you BEAT in the Junior Cup this season did not seem to have the same quality as other sides you played in the Intermediate Cup in previous seasons. e.g. I find it hard to imagine the reserve teams of Dees and LML, or Lord Morpeth being able to compete with your previous Intermediate cup opponents like Charlton Utd, Yavruvatan, Nacional de Londres, Eureka or Albion Manor. Of those teams most got to the latter rounds, won it (Eureka), got to the final (Yavruvatan), or were knocked out by teams that made it to the end (Albion Manor).

e.g. from the videos of your matches BEFORE you played MSS, I did not see a single player who I thought was good enough to play for any of your Intermediate Cup opponents.

Quote

Here are our results from the 7 seasons (not 8) that we played in the London FA Sunday Intermediate Cup:
2005/2006
Won 13-1 v. A Small World
A Small World were the worst team we have ever played in our 36-year history ! ...and they were actually doing well in their League (the West End AFA).
Lost 3-4 (AET) to North West Neasden 'A'
They were the top team in the Maccabi League Premier Division at the time but I would say only marginally better than London Maccabi Lions 'B'.
2006/2007
Lost 2-4 to Frenford Sunday
They went on to win the competition...and the Essex FA Sunday Premier Cup !
2007/2008
Won on pens (3-3 AET) v. South West Soldiers
They were a decent side from the Sportsmans Sunday League, but no better or worse than the 5 teams we have played in the Junior Cup this season.
Lost 0-4 to Eureka
...which you know all about !
2008/2009
Lost 2-3 to Olympia
They were a very ordinary side and we were dreadful on the day. They were worse than all five teams in the Junior Cup.
2009/2010
Won 5-1 v. Russellers
Another poor side from the lower divisions of the Kent Suburban League who were in the wrong Cup.
Won 6-5 (AET) v. Nacional De Londres
Very good side going forward, but defensively they were shocking...and worse than all five teams in the Junior Cup.
Lost 2-4 to Yavruvatan
Again, like N.D.L., very good going forward, but suspect defensively. Again, I would say that all five Junior Cup teams were marginally better than them at the back.
2010/2011
Won 7-0 v. Kensington Athletic
Like A Small World and Russellers, they were in the wrong Cup...as we know.
Lost 2-3 (AET) v. Charlton United
Charlton United and Eureka are the two best sides we played in the Intermediate. Both were better than Frenford Sunday.
2011-2012
Lost 0-1 to Albion Manor
I still maintain that there was no difference whatsoever between Albion Manor and any of the five teams we have played in the Junior this season. Obviously if we had played them the season before, then there would have been a difference.

So...North-West Neasden 'A', Frenford Sunday, Eureka & Charlton United...yes, all definitely better than the 5 Junior teams.

South-West Soldiers, Nacional De Londres, Yavruvan & Albion Manor...all roughly about the same, better in some areas, worse in others.

A Small World, Olympia, Russellers & Kensington Athletic...all definitely worse than the 5 Junior teams.

Our opponents in the Junior Cup this season:
Lord Morpeth Won 2-0. They are currently top of their division (or near enough) and had strengthened their side with ex Semi-Pros and ex-Hackney & Leyton Sunday League Premier Division players for this season.
Bromley Knights Won 1-0. I know they were missing a few key players, but they were still unbeaten in their division at the time. They might even be in the Sunday Challenge Cup next season ! (as an Orpington & Bromley Sunday League top division side when they get promoted).
Dees Reserves Won 2-1. We were supposed to be playing Dees Reserves, but they clearly put half their First Team in. Their Reserves also play in the Surrey Intermediate Cup, not the Junior, so as far as I am concerned, they were Intermediate standard.
London Maccabi Lions 'B' Won 1-0. Top of their division and better than their 'A' Team...who enter the FA National Sunday Cup !
Middlesbrough Supporters Lost 8-1...because our keeper had a mare and we played the wrong tactics ! Crazy

I assure you that the You Tube highlights really don't portray the games as a whole. Good defending is never included and things like 20-pass one-touch moves (as Dees Reserves did on at least one occasion) are never included when they don't lead to a shot at goal. You really cannot guage the standard wholly from those highlights.



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Shoots
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Re: [HughesVideo] London Sunday Intermediate Cup 2012-2013 or Reply Privately

Shock Result

Cetinkaya Cinar 1-2 Shoots & leaves

Anyone know the result of the other Semi?

Hughesvideo I think we would like you to do the Matchday videoing for us, whats the best way to organize it?


stevegraze
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Re: [Shoots] London Sunday Intermediate Cup 2012-2013 or Reply Privately

Congratulations to Shoots & Leaves. Good luck in the final against Faithfold of the Maccabi Jewish League (final at Wingate & Finchley FC). They beat Convoys 3-2 AET (there is more than one team called Convoys, but this is the team from the Metropolitan Sunday League). How was your game against Cetinkaya? How good were they? Not sure what they are doing in the Intermediate Cup (they won the Junior Cup in 2009 too). They should be in the Challenge Cup.

BTW, you beating Cetinkaya prevented an all community leagues cup final. Had they won, it would have been teams from the Cypriot and Jewish leagues in the final. We currently have a situation where all three LFA Sunday Cups could be won by teams from the Cypriot, Turkish and Jewish Leagues. Incredible when you think about it - since the teams in those leagues have a much smaller pool of the population to recruit players, since players must be of a certain ethnicity. Yet teams who are free to pick players from Mars do not do as well as them in LFA Cups!

How has your league been since the two best teams (Fulham United and Pearscroft United) departed it? Has it diminished the quality of the league? Pearscroft have got off to a flying start in Saturday football:
http://nonleaguematters.co.uk/...;;page=unread#unread


(This post was edited by stevegraze on Mar 4, 2013, 3:05 PM)


HughesVideo
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Re: [stevegraze] London Sunday Intermediate Cup 2012-2013 or Reply Privately


Quote
We currently have a situation where all three LFA Sunday Cups could be won by teams from the Cypriot, Turkish and Jewish Leagues. Incredible when you think about it - since the teams in those leagues have a much smaller pool of the population to recruit players, since players must be of a certain ethnicity.


...but then as far as the KOPA and TCFF Leagues are concerned, that only applies to their League matches. They can play who they want in the LFA Cups, which makes Shoots & Leaves' victory even more remarkable. I will be amazed if Cetinkaya Cinar didn't bring in a number of top quality non-Turkish Cypriot Semi-Pros especially for that match. (They are only allowed to play three of them at any one time in their League matches).

Great result for Shoots & Leaves and it will give other 'Open League' teams hope that they can end the KOPA & TCFF League's dominance in these competitions.

Faithfold's achievement in reaching the Final is certainly worthy of mention though, as the Maccabi League don't even allow non-Jewish players to register, so that means Faithfold would have been fielding an all-Jewish team in the Semi-Final against Convoys.



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Re: [Shoots] London Sunday Intermediate Cup 2012-2013 or Reply Privately


In Reply To
Hughesvideo I think we would like you to do the Matchday videoing for us, whats the best way to organize it?


I'll P.M. you shortly with details,



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stevegraze
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Re: [HughesVideo] London Sunday Intermediate Cup 2012-2013 or Reply Privately

HughesVideo, I will defer to you in most cases regarding the quality of Edmonton Rovers' opponents since you were actually at those games and I was not. I accept that edited YouTube highlights might also give an unrealistic impression of a match.

I just find it very hard to imagine Dees or LML Reserves being as good as Yavruvatan for example. Yavruvatan got to the Intermediate Cup final (where they lost to an exceptional Clapton Rangers team), and a couple of seasons before that, were also knocked out by the Intermediate Cup winners Albion Manor (who if we recall stopped Aris' 4 year consecutive undefeated and winning streak as 4 time Intermediate/Challenge cup winners). Can a team defeated in a close contest by probably one of the top 5 sides in London (at the time) really be on a par with LML and Dees Reserves?

I thought Nacional de Londres looked very good going forward. They had some skillful players
(but I agree with you that they did not look so good at the back). Even you admitted that your game against a weakened Albion Manor "was not a close game" and that them winning only 1-0 was because "Albion Manor missed loads of chances". Even as weakened as they were, they were knocked out on penalties AET by a Turkish team that got to the semi-final. Can Dees and LML really be as good as them?

Point taken about A Small World and Kensington Athletic (I think our efforts got them put back in the Junior Cup where they should be!). LOL at "
A Small World were the worst team we have ever played in our 36-year history"! Laugh




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Re: [HughesVideo] London Sunday Intermediate Cup 2012-2013 or Reply Privately

Cetinkaya controlled most of the posession of the game but it was us that created the clear cut chances.

We should have gone ahead after 5 minutes but their keeper pulled off a fantastic save.

We had a goalmouth scramble where two shots were saved off the line, then we took the lead on the half hour mark when our tricky winger cut in from the right & drilled a great shot past the diving goalie.

HT: Cetinkaya 0-1 Shoots

Second half they started to come at us more with a long ball over the top to their pacey no 10 as their main source of attack, our defence did well with the high line & caught him offside many times.

We should have gone 2-0 up when the same guy who scored the goal was 1on1 with the goalie but the keeper made another good stop. Just after missing that chance they levelled on the hour mark when the no 10 finally broke the offside trap & rolled the ball past me as I started to try & close down the angle.

This rocked us for a bit & the game looked destined for extra time but on 87mins our main striker managed to crack a volley from outside the box right into the bottom corner.

The last 5-6 mins were pretty scary but they never actually managed to get a shot on target except for the goal that they scored. They even resorted to diving in the final minute to win a penalty but the referee was clever enough to spot it, some would have been conned.

They are a very good side but we stuck it out & dug deep. I would say there was probably only 4 non cypriot players that played against us, the RB who was white, a black CB who was their best player & their 2 strikers with no 10 a black player & no 9 probably serbian, croatian.

Overall they were very gracious in defeat with their management team especially receptive, they had about 20 people watching them


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Re: [stevegraze] London Sunday Intermediate Cup 2012-2013 or Reply Privately


In Reply To
How has your league been since the two best teams (Fulham United and Pearscroft United) departed it? Has it diminished the quality of the league? Pearscroft have got off to a flying start in Saturday football: The league is being dominated at the min by West London Select, who have won all there games except 1 defeat, which was to us btw. Although they gained revenge last weekend by battering us 7-3, which i missed through illness. Southern Cross are made up of Pearscoft A & B players so are a difficult team. A new team FC Selchp are very good, the best team we have played this season, they beat us 4-2 in our league cup. The other 7 teams are pretty decent with only possibly the Ship being the only weak team. We started the season terribly, we had a completely diferent set of players to what we have now but them early losses have cost us any hope of our own league especially with West London Select winning every week. I saw someone suggested that Faithfold should have been competing in the challenge cup instead of the inter. Are they on par or better than Cetinkaya?



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Re: [stevegraze] London Sunday Intermediate Cup 2012-2013 or Reply Privately


In Reply To
HughesVideo, I will defer to you in most cases regarding the quality of Edmonton Rovers' opponents since you were actually at those games and I was not. I accept that edited YouTube highlights might also give an unrealistic impression of a match.

I just find it very hard to imagine Dees or LML Reserves being as good as Yavruvatan for example. Yavruvatan got to the Intermediate Cup final (where they lost to an exceptional Clapton Rangers team), and a couple of seasons before that, were also knocked out by the Intermediate Cup winners Albion Manor (who if we recall stopped Aris' 4 year consecutive undefeated and winning streak as 4 time Intermediate/Challenge cup winners). Can a team defeated in a close contest by probably one of the top 5 sides in London (at the time) really be on a par with LML and Dees Reserves?

I thought Nacional de Londres looked very good going forward. They had some skillful players
(but I agree with you that they did not look so good at the back). Even you admitted that your game against a weakened Albion Manor "was not a close game" and that them winning only 1-0 was because "Albion Manor missed loads of chances". Even as weakened as they were, they were knocked out on penalties AET by a Turkish team that got to the semi-final. Can Dees and LML really be as good as them?

Point taken about A Small World and Kensington Athletic (I think our efforts got them put back in the Junior Cup where they should be!). LOL at "
A Small World were the worst team we have ever played in our 36-year history"! Laugh



First of all, we fielded a much weaker side against Albion Manor than we did in all five of our London Sunday Junior Cup matches this season, so that needs to be taken into consideration.

Regarding Yavruvatan, it's interesting to note that they are now bottom of the second division in the TCFF. I suspect their quality non-Turkish attacking players left after that Intermediate Cup Final and their remaining players were all as ordinary as the defenders they fielded against us ?

Regarding London Maccabi Lions 'B', maybe the Maccabi League is not as weak as some people on this Forum are suggesting (which doesn't include me by the way). Don't forget, Faithfold are now through to the Sunday Intermediate Cup Final.
OK, they are the top team in the Premier Division, but London Maccabi Lions 'B' are clearly the best team in the next division down and they will be in the Premier Division themselves next season.
In my experience, teams who win a division and get promoted into a top division in any Sunday League invariably finish at least in mid-table the following season...and that to me would prove that London Maccabi Lions 'B' are well above London Sunday Junior Cup standard.

Regarding A Small World, they had 'Johnny Vegas' and 'Adrian Mole' playing for them ! Yes, a bloke wearing glasses...and not Edgar Davids'-style protective glasses, but ordinary spectacles. Good bunch of lads, but typical of the sort of Sunday teams in London that normally wouldn't dare think of entering LFA Sunday Cup competitions. They only lasted a couple of seasons before folding up. That's the problem with competitive Sunday football in London nowadays. The standard is so good that it's not easy for 'anybody' to have a run-out just for fun.
If this link works, you can see a picture of Vegas & Mole here (wearing orange): http://www.edmontonrovers.co.uk/...ges/930d573792d7.jpg



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Re: [stevegraze] London Sunday Intermediate Cup 2012-2013 or Reply Privately


In Reply To
Congratulations to Shoots & Leaves. Good luck in the final against Faithfold of the Maccabi Jewish League (final at Wingate & Finchley FC). They beat Convoys 3-2 AET (there is more than one team called Convoys, but this is the team from the Metropolitan Sunday League). How was your game against Cetinkaya? How good were they? Not sure what they are doing in the Intermediate Cup (they won the Junior Cup in 2009 too). They should be in the Challenge Cup.

BTW, you beating Cetinkaya prevented an all community leagues cup final. Had they won, it would have been teams from the Cypriot and Jewish leagues in the final. We currently have a situation where all three LFA Sunday Cups could be won by teams from the Cypriot, Turkish and Jewish Leagues. Incredible when you think about it - since the teams in those leagues have a much smaller pool of the population to recruit players, since players must be of a certain ethnicity. Yet teams who are free to pick players from Mars do not do as well as them in LFA Cups!

How has your league been since the two best teams (Fulham United and Pearscroft United) departed it? Has it diminished the quality of the league? Pearscroft have got off to a flying start in Saturday football:
http://nonleaguematters.co.uk/...;;page=unread#unread


Iím on the gate for the final. I suspect Faithfold will have a decent following on the day.


Does anyone know what level this game might equate to in the NLS (Step 7?)


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Re: [London Harrier] London Sunday Intermediate Cup 2012-2013 or Reply Privately


Quote
Iím on the gate for the final. I suspect Faithfold will have a decent following on the day.

Does anyone know what level this game might equate to in the NLS (Step 7?)


In my opinion, the playing standard in the Finals of the London FA Sunday Cup competitions are generally...
Sunday Challenge Cup...Step 4 !
Sunday Intermediate Cup...Step 5
Sunday Junior Cup...Step 6

In rounds prior to the Quarter-Finals of each competition, the general standard would be...
Sunday Challenge Cup...Step 5/6
Sunday Intermediate Cup...Step 6/7
Sunday Junior Cup...Below Step 7



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stevegraze
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Re: [HughesVideo] London Sunday Intermediate Cup 2012-2013 or Reply Privately

I agree with HughesVideo. The Challenge Cup is pretty much step 4-5 standard from the beginning. The Intermediate Cup is that standard generally from the quarter final stage onwards.

Rarely does a team reach the latter stages of an LFA Cup without several step 3-5 players. Most teams in the Challenge Cup would hold their own in the Ryman Premier or division 1.


Shoots
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Re: [London Harrier] London Sunday Intermediate Cup 2012-2013 or Reply Privately

Iím on the gate for the final. I suspect Faithfold will have a decent following on the day.





Do you know how much they are charging on the day?


Steve
We only have one player who plays in the "steps", he plays for Bedfont Town, not even sure what level they would be classed as.


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Re: [Shoots] London Sunday Intermediate Cup 2012-2013 or Reply Privately


In Reply To
Iím on the gate for the final. I suspect Faithfold will have a decent following on the day.





Do you know how much they are charging on the day?


Steve
We only have one player who plays in the "steps", he plays for Bedfont Town, not even sure what level they would be classed as.


No idea to be honest. Whatever the cost, it will be set by the London FA, not by Wingate & Finchley.


stevegraze
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Re: [Shoots] London Sunday Intermediate Cup 2012-2013 or Reply Privately

Shoots. That is VERY rare (for a team to get to an LFA final without several step 4-5 players). e.g. the current Intermediate Cup holders Yalova are full of Saturday step 4-5 players. Someone who played against them last season described them as "basically a well drilled Saturday team" in disguise. One of their players is the captain of Waltham Forest FC in the Ryman League! (step 4)

The LFA Sunday Challenge Cup is of an exceptionally high standard. I still stand by what I said earlier: 80% of teams in this year's Challenge Cup would hold their own in any step 4-5 league.

Faithfold's league (Maccabi Sunday League) has many players who play on Saturdays in the Spartan South Midlands League (step 5-6).

Bedfont Town's league is a feeder to the Surrey Intermediate League (step 7b).


(This post was edited by stevegraze on Apr 3, 2013, 3:10 PM)


HughesVideo
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Re: [Shoots] London Sunday Intermediate Cup 2012-2013 or Reply Privately

Shoots...surely your team has a few players who used to play at Step 3-7 level on Saturdays though ?

What I find in the higher levels of Sunday League football in the London area is that sort of thing is more the case than there being loads of teams packed with current Step 3-7 players (as Stevegraze is saying).

As far as I am concerned, Sunday League teams with at least five or six former Step 3-7 players can be just as good, if not better than teams with five or six current Step 3-7 players as long as they have kept their fitness levels up...which they invariably do nowadays.
I say better because the former Step 3-7 players playing Sunday football are normally in their late-20's and early-30's and have plenty of experience whereas most current Step 3-7 players playing Sunday football are just out of College/Uni/Pro Club Academies.



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Re: [HughesVideo] London Sunday Intermediate Cup 2012-2013 or Reply Privately

Is there really enough money in Sunday football in London for all these Step 3/4/5 players?

I know here in Devon & Cornwall the vast majority of Sunday football is very much "pub league" apart from when a few people in Plymouth put together a team of Peninsula League players by flashing a little cash.


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Re: [Richard Rundle] London Sunday Intermediate Cup 2012-2013 or Reply Privately


In Reply To
Is there really enough money in Sunday football in London for all these Step 3/4/5 players?

I know here in Devon & Cornwall the vast majority of Sunday football is very much "pub league" apart from when a few people in Plymouth put together a team of Peninsula League players by flashing a little cash.


In general in the London area, players don't get paid for playing Sunday League football (apart from some who play for the Greek Cypriot and Turkish Community clubs).
Generally, Step 3-5 players play Sunday football to get in some game time after being sub the day before or just for the enjoyment of the game playing with their mates from work/school/college or whatever.



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stevegraze
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Re: [HughesVideo] London Sunday Intermediate Cup 2012-2013 or Reply Privately

The crossover of Saturday pyramid players into Sunday football occurs usually in two ways:

1) Some Saturday pyramid teams also have a Sunday team too: like London Bari of the Essex Senior League (step 5), London Maccabi Lions of the Spartan South Midlands League (step 5) and Sevenacre & Sidcup of the Kent Invicta League (step 6). Hence some players rotate between their club's Saturday and Sunday leagues.

2) Often there are "links" between some Saturday and Sunday teams. e.g. a group of mates from a Saturday pyramid club often get together and play in a Sunday league too. Or there could be another link between a Saturday and Sunday club. e.g. Haringery Borough FC's Saturday coach is also the coach of Sunday team New Salamis. Hence no surprise that many New Salamis players are from Haringey Borough. HughesVideo has mentioned before that FA Sunday Cup semi-finalists Upshire have many current/former Waltham Abbey FC players. In recent seasons, Clapton Rangers have fielded about 10-12 players from Waltham forest FC. Former FA Sunday Cup winners Hetton Lyons were basically a glorified Sunday team for Norhern League champs Spennymoor FC. I believe Spennymoor's chairman was also the manager of Hetton, so not much surprise at the crossover of players between both clubs.

If you read this season's LFA Sunday Challenge Cup thread, you will see an amazing variety of players playing Saturday step 2-7 pyramid and Sunday football across the southeast in leagues ranging from the Conference, to the Southern League, Ryman League, Sussex County League, Essex Senior League, Spartan South Midlands League etc.
http://nonleaguematters.co.uk/..._reply;so=ASC;mh=25;


Quote
What I find in the higher levels of Sunday League football in the London area is that sort of thing is more the case than there being loads of teams packed with current Step 3-7 players (as Stevegraze is saying).

As far as I am concerned, Sunday League teams with at least five or six former Step 3-7 players can be just as good, if not better than teams with five or six current Step 3-7 players as long as they have kept their fitness levels up...which they invariably do nowadays.
I say better because the former Step 3-7 players playing Sunday football are normally in their late-20's and early-30's and have plenty of experience whereas most current Step 3-7 players playing Sunday football are just out of College/Uni/Pro Club Academies.





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Re: [HughesVideo] London Sunday Intermediate Cup 2012-2013 or Reply Privately

This might be a bit cheeky but does anybody know anything about the player quality of our opponents Faithfold.

They have a couple of youtube posts and the two players that stand out (from the clips) are their left winger, wears no.7 and their bald headed striker.

Has anybody on this forum played against them and are there only pointers you could give.