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THE Rangers FC



wishmaster3211
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Jun 15, 2012, 10:24 AM

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THE Rangers FC or Reply Privately

"The" Rangers FC it is then.

Here we go, when discussing Rushden, Dalrington, Kettering et al on this board people have always said what would happen if a big club went to the wall. Well, Rangers have gone to the wall totally.

From my reading of the situation as it was applied to Darlington, if they were in England they wouldn't be able to kick a ball next season in Senior football.

Like thats going to happen.

I bet they end up in the SPL with a points deduction, so Portsmouth fans can relax.....



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chienmort
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Re: [wishmaster3211] THE Rangers FC or Reply Privately


In Reply To
"The" Rangers FC it is then.

Here we go, when discussing Rushden, Dalrington, Kettering et al on this board people have always said what would happen if a big club went to the wall. Well, Rangers have gone to the wall totally.

From my reading of the situation as it was applied to Darlington, if they were in England they wouldn't be able to kick a ball next season in Senior football.

Like thats going to happen.

I bet they end up in the SPL with a points deduction, so Portsmouth fans can relax.....


i assume that you are discussing Glasgow Rangers? Why would they end up in the Southern Premier League?



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Jaundiced Hack
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Jun 15, 2012, 10:47 AM

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Re: [chienmort] THE Rangers FC or

What's the Southern Premier League?


Part-Timer
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Re: [wishmaster3211] THE Rangers FC or Reply Privately


In Reply To
Here we go, when discussing Rushden, Dalrington, Kettering et al on this board people have always said what would happen if a big club went to the wall. Well, Rangers have gone to the wall totally.


That's novel; Darlington renaming themselves Dalrington. Better than AFC I suppose.Wink


acmold
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Jun 15, 2012, 11:09 AM

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Re: [Part-Timer] THE Rangers FC or

Presume this is why Tokyngton Manor are not coming back.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/.../0/football/18446597


ladderman
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Jun 15, 2012, 12:26 PM

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Re: [Part-Timer] THE Rangers FC or Reply Privately

I like the idea of mis-spelling your name rather than "AFC", though I suspect we'd just drop the "Bishop's", most people from the area don't use it anyway.

As for Pompey, they're not Rangers. I'm sure they would get away with it to a certain degree, but the FL doesn't need them quite like Scottish football (believes it) needs Rangers.


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Re: [ladderman] THE Rangers FC or Reply Privately


In Reply To
I like the idea of mis-spelling your name rather than "AFC", though I suspect we'd just drop the "Bishop's", most people from the area don't use it anyway.

As for Pompey, they're not Rangers. I'm sure they would get away with it to a certain degree, but the FL doesn't need them quite like Scottish football (believes it) needs Rangers.


But they do don`t they? The gates most Scottish Premier sides get is not enough to survive without the 4 games against Celti & Rangers take that away and a lot of clubs will run into major problems IMO.



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wishmaster3211
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Jun 15, 2012, 1:32 PM

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Re: [sandhurstbee] THE Rangers FC or Reply Privately


In Reply To

In Reply To
I like the idea of mis-spelling your name rather than "AFC", though I suspect we'd just drop the "Bishop's", most people from the area don't use it anyway.

As for Pompey, they're not Rangers. I'm sure they would get away with it to a certain degree, but the FL doesn't need them quite like Scottish football (believes it) needs Rangers.


But they do don`t they? The gates most Scottish Premier sides get is not enough to survive without the 4 games against Celti & Rangers take that away and a lot of clubs will run into major problems IMO.


They need the TV deal that the old Firm bring. They don't need the gates that's a myth, a lot of home fans don't bother going to games against the Old Firm and Police costs are excessive. With a chance of finishing 2nd a few clubs would see significant increases in most gates.

I am intrigued as to whether they will be forced to change their name. They were never known as GLASGOW Rangers (in fact that used to wind up a Rangers fan i knew more than calling him a "Hun"!) so that would be an option.

Personally I think any so called Rules that were applied to Livingston will be chucked out of a Govan tower block window.....

There are rumours Livingston will sue if THE Rangers dont get demoted (technically not demoted as its not even the same club!).



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TheLinnet
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Re: [acmold] THE Rangers FC or Reply Privately


In Reply To
Presume this is why Tokyngton Manor are not coming back.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/.../0/football/18446597

Can someone tell me how this relates to Tokyngton Manor ?



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Savagebee
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Re: [TheLinnet] THE Rangers FC or Reply Privately


In Reply To

In Reply To
Presume this is why Tokyngton Manor are not coming back.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/.../0/football/18446597

Can someone tell me how this relates to Tokyngton Manor ?



Sly


ladderman
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Jun 15, 2012, 3:55 PM

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Re: [sandhurstbee] THE Rangers FC or Reply Privately

But they wouldn't be losing four home games against the Old Firm, the ten other sides would lose on aveage 1.7 home games against Rangers (because of the split after 33 games), and they would still get the same number of home games. As Wishmaster says, the race for second would lead to less "dead" games, one team who would've been in the relegation section would end up in the title section of the SPL, one extra non Old Firm side would get into Europe. The numbers aren't as clear-cut as Rangers claim.

The fly in the ointment is the TV deal. It runs until the end of the 2016-17 season (by which time AFC Rangers would be back in the top flight) so it's down to whether Sky really can rip it up if there's no Rangers in the top flight. http://www.bbc.co.uk/.../0/football/17047957 suggests they can.

Regardless, I expect to see Rangers in the SPL next season.


stingray
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Jun 15, 2012, 5:04 PM

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Re: [acmold] THE Rangers FC or Reply Privately


In Reply To
Presume this is why Tokyngton Manor are not coming back.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/.../0/football/18446597



Hmm... I wonder if the No. 32 knew his picture was being taken?CoolCoolCool



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PaulC
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Jun 15, 2012, 8:30 PM

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Re: [wishmaster3211] THE Rangers FC or Reply Privately


In Reply To
"The" Rangers FC it is then.


It seems odd that they are imitating The Celtic Football Club.

I thought they would have opted for "Glasgow Rangers"



ARL
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Re: [PaulC] THE Rangers FC or Reply Privately

It would be interesting to see the new Rangers put in SFL Division Three, though. Their away game at Queens Park would surely attract the biggest ever gate for a 4th-level game in any country? (and finance the Spiders for the next 50 years)


Richard Watts
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Jun 16, 2012, 10:19 AM

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Re: [ARL] THE Rangers FC or Reply Privately


In Reply To
It would be interesting to see the new Rangers put in SFL Division Three, though. Their away game at Queens Park would surely attract the biggest ever gate for a 4th-level game in any country? (and finance the Spiders for the next 50 years)

I would imagine QPFC finance themselves quite comfortably as it is. Don't they own Hampden Park and hire it out to the SFA for internationals, cup finals etc.?

If this is going to be a completely new club starting with a debt free clean slate it would be outrageous were they to be allowed to start in the Premier League where the old club finished. If, for instance, Kilmarnock went bust would a new Kilmarnock club be allowed to do that?


ladderman
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Jun 16, 2012, 10:55 AM

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Re: [Richard Watts] THE Rangers FC or Reply Privately

Livingstone were demoted from Div 1 to Div 3. Of course, that's the Scottish League rather than the SPL which will be their get-out clause.


garethwrexy
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Jun 16, 2012, 12:10 PM

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Re: [ARL] THE Rangers FC or Reply Privately

put them in the highland league Smile



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PaulC
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Jun 16, 2012, 1:08 PM

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Re: [Richard Watts] THE Rangers FC or Reply Privately

Didn't Middlesbrough Football & Athletic Club (1986) take over the place of the previous Middlesbrough club after it went into liquidation?


Beano
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Jun 16, 2012, 2:04 PM

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Re: [PaulC] THE Rangers FC or Reply Privately


In Reply To
Didn't Middlesbrough Football & Athletic Club (1986) take over the place of the previous Middlesbrough club after it went into liquidation?


Yes, but under a different set of rules to those in place now.

Of course, none of this is relevant to Scotland: different country, different rules.


scottywalds
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Jun 16, 2012, 2:36 PM

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Re: [garethwrexy] THE Rangers FC or Reply Privately


In Reply To
put them in the highland league Smile

That would be like putting Arsenal in the Northern League.


MOUNTAINEER
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Jun 16, 2012, 3:21 PM

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Re: [PaulC] THE Rangers FC or Reply Privately

I thought they have always been GLASGOW RANGERS.


scottywalds
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Jun 16, 2012, 3:29 PM

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Re: [MOUNTAINEER] THE Rangers FC or Reply Privately


In Reply To
I thought they have always been GLASGOW RANGERS.

No, that was added for European competitions to show which city they were from.


PaulC
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Jun 16, 2012, 3:34 PM

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Re: [MOUNTAINEER] THE Rangers FC or Reply Privately

<reply>I thought they have always been GLASGOW RANGERS. </reply>


Never. Rangers Football Club (and The Celtic Football Club)

It was only around 1910 that the Burgh of Govan in which Rangers play was 'annexed' by Glasgow.


cool_hand_luke
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Jun 16, 2012, 5:54 PM

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Re: [PaulC] THE Rangers FC or Reply Privately

Will the newco club get to keep the oldco clubs history? 54 titles, Scottish cups etc?


MOUNTAINEER
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Re: [cool_hand_luke] THE Rangers FC or Reply Privately

I have seen Glasgow Rangers FC referred to many times,
a Google can confirm the Glasgow Rangers name tag,
the SPL website in places refers to GLASGOW RANGERS.

Perhaps some Bears supporters can confirm it.


PaulC
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Jun 16, 2012, 6:57 PM

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Re: [MOUNTAINEER] THE Rangers FC or Reply Privately

I don't doubt there are many references to Glasgow Rangers. There'll be a lot to Glasgow Celtic, Ajax Amsterdam, Inter Milan and Sporting Lisbon I don't doubt. It doesn't make them right though

I'd be surprised if there are any official SPL references to "Glasgow Rangers".

Here's the club website http://www.rangers.co.uk/


MarkInGorleston
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Jun 16, 2012, 8:52 PM

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Re: [ladderman] THE Rangers FC or Reply Privately

I remember the year Aberdeen came bottom, the Scottish Premier did not relegate a club that season and claimed they had planned to change their numbers again, funny how no mention of it until Aberdeen came bottom.

The SP League always protect the likes of Rangers, Aberdeen and Celtic, expect this to be the same. They should be division 3, wont happen though.

One rule for the big.3, total different rule for Kilmanock, Hibs, Dunfermiline etc.



I would laugh my head off if AFCW went down along with ColUwe and We**ham.

(This post was edited by Witham Mark on Jun 16, 2012, 9:00 PM)


Fanatic
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Jun 16, 2012, 11:33 PM

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Re: [Witham Mark] THE Rangers FC or Reply Privately


In Reply To
I remember the year Aberdeen came bottom, the Scottish Premier did not relegate a club that season and claimed they had planned to change their numbers again, funny how no mention of it until Aberdeen came bottom.

The SP League always protect the likes of Rangers, Aberdeen and Celtic, expect this to be the same. They should be division 3, wont happen though.

One rule for the big.3, total different rule for Kilmanock, Hibs, Dunfermiline etc.


Sorry to dash your conspiracy theories, but when Aberdeen finished bottom and were not relegated, it was because Falkirk failed the ground grading. The plan all season had been to expand the Premier League and a play-off was planned between the bottom club in the SPL and the second and third-placed teams in SFL1. However, with Falkirk finishing third, the play-off was no longer required.

It happened again at the end of the 2002/03 season when Motherwell (hardly one of the big three) finished bottom and were not relegated due to Falkirk's ground problems.


cope1
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Jun 16, 2012, 11:41 PM

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Re: [Witham Mark] THE Rangers FC or Reply Privately


In Reply To
One rule for the big.3, total different rule for Kilmanock, Hibs, Dunfermiline etc.

Big 3??? Since when has Scottish footie had a Big 3???


Ashtree RockBee
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Jun 17, 2012, 2:12 AM

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Re: [cope1] THE Rangers FC or Reply Privately

That's nothing. The rude white reggae artist Judge Dread had a Big Six. Sly

I'd have thought if there'd been a Scottish big six, it would have been Celtic, Rangers, Hearts, Hibernian, Aberdeen and Brechin City....er, Dundee United.


chienmort
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Jun 17, 2012, 8:24 AM

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Re: [Jaundiced Hack] THE Rangers FC or Reply Privately


In Reply To
What's the Southern Premier League?

Exactly what we said when we lost in the Play Offs



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Siberian Monkey
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Jun 17, 2012, 10:27 AM

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Re: [scottywalds] THE Rangers FC or Reply Privately


In Reply To

In Reply To
put them in the highland league Smile
That would be like putting Arsenal in the Northern League.
or Bishop's Stortford in the Conference North


Siberian Monkey
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Jun 17, 2012, 10:40 AM

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Re: [sandhurstbee] THE Rangers FC or Reply Privately



the FL doesn't need them quite like Scottish football (believes it) needs Rangers.

But they do don`t they? The gates most Scottish Premier sides get is not enough to survive without the 4 games against Celti & Rangers take that away and a lot of clubs will run into major problems IMO.
I think that the notion of Rangers having to stay in the SPL for financial reasons is a bit of a myth.


The impact of automatically accepting the newco will be will be alienating thousands of fans across the country who would, quite rightly, see it as a fix. The Scottish game is waning partly due to the Old Firm dominance and Rangers coming straight back would leave many fans angry to the point of not bothering to go to games any longer. Many fans want to see a suitable punishment for Rangers and don’t want to see their clubs putting money over sporting integrity (http://splsurvey.co.uk/...ewco-FFP-Results.pdf).



Financially; two visits from Rangers is likely to be an extra 7000 away fans over the two games… and because of the split, that’s not guaranteed. With 19 home games (on average), that’s compensated for by less than 400 fans per match. Not only could clubs to lose that kind of support over a season if disgruntled fans gave up attending but it could be made up by having less ‘dead games’. More clubs would have something to play for, which means more bums on seats. One extra club gets into Europe, which gives at least one extra home game, and a weaker Rangers sees other teams getting further in the domestic cups.


As for the TV revenue; it’s worth £80 million to SPL clubs over the next 5 years, obviously a big deal to those clubs. Let’s say Sky tear up the current contract; do you really imagine that no one at all will put in a bid to replace it? Sky themselves might offer reduced terms. If the TV revenue is then more evenly distributed, it may not affect each club so catastrophically and, again, could be compensated for with increased attendances.


ladderman
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Jun 17, 2012, 11:38 AM

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Re: [Siberian Monkey] THE Rangers FC or Reply Privately

The numbers in the survey are interesting. I don't believe that when it came to the crunch half of SPL fans would walk away if Rangers are readmitted. But a large scale boycott of games involving Rangers negates a lot of the point of readmitting them - at least attendance-wise - and is certainly achievable. If you know you're going to miss at least two home games per season, it also make a season ticket less attractive and an organised boycott of STs would certainly hurt clubs.

The Sky issue is interesting. If they rip up the deal, someone else will pick it up, and will have it when Rangers return to the SPL. A concerted campaign that made it clear to Sky that people will cancel their subscription if Rangers are readmitted would certainly make them think about it.


petermiller36
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Jun 17, 2012, 2:08 PM

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Re: [ladderman] THE Rangers FC or Reply Privately

ESPN need some football now that they've lost the English Premier League from 2013.

I've also seen that when the fixtures are released tomorrow it will contain "Club 12", not Rangers.



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garethwrexy
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Jun 17, 2012, 2:26 PM

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Re: [petermiller36] THE Rangers FC or Reply Privately

or maybe rangers should have gone into blue square premier north Smile



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ladderman
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Jun 17, 2012, 3:32 PM

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Re: [garethwrexy] THE Rangers FC or Reply Privately

Gareth's now inventing leaguesWink


D A
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Jun 17, 2012, 3:47 PM

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Re: [ladderman] THE Rangers FC or Reply Privately

Tut tut Gareth do you mean the Blue Square Senior Supreme Premier North Division ?



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chienmort
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Jun 17, 2012, 8:42 PM

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Re: [ladderman] THE Rangers FC or Reply Privately

Seems to me the Conference do it regularly. BSB is just the last name change and adding divisions North and South divisions confused the heck out of geographers everywhere.



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hawkwind
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Jun 17, 2012, 8:42 PM

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Re: [Siberian Monkey] THE Rangers FC or Reply Privately


In Reply To
I think that the notion of Rangers having to stay in the SPL for financial reasons is a bit of a myth.


The impact of automatically accepting the newco will be will be alienating thousands of fans across the country who would, quite rightly, see it as a fix. The Scottish game is waning partly due to the Old Firm dominance and Rangers coming straight back would leave many fans angry to the point of not bothering to go to games any longer. Many fans want to see a suitable punishment for Rangers and don’t want to see their clubs putting money over sporting integrity (http://splsurvey.co.uk/...ewco-FFP-Results.pdf).



Financially; two visits from Rangers is likely to be an extra 7000 away fans over the two games… and because of the split, that’s not guaranteed. With 19 home games (on average), that’s compensated for by less than 400 fans per match. Not only could clubs to lose that kind of support over a season if disgruntled fans gave up attending but it could be made up by having less ‘dead games’. More clubs would have something to play for, which means more bums on seats. One extra club gets into Europe, which gives at least one extra home game, and a weaker Rangers sees other teams getting further in the domestic cups.


As for the TV revenue; it’s worth £80 million to SPL clubs over the next 5 years, obviously a big deal to those clubs. Let’s say Sky tear up the current contract; do you really imagine that no one at all will put in a bid to replace it? Sky themselves might offer reduced terms. If the TV revenue is then more evenly distributed, it may not affect each club so catastrophically and, again, could be compensated for with increased attendances.


Thanks for posting that link.

The survey also covered a change in fair play regulations in Scotland. Having looked, it appears that prior to May 30th any newco would have been expelled from the SPL, but after a vote on that date that is no longer automatic and the member clubs now can decide case by case. Have I got that right?


wishmaster3211
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Jun 17, 2012, 8:43 PM

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Re: [D A] THE Rangers FC or Reply Privately


In Reply To
Tut tut Gareth do you mean the Blue Square Senior Supreme Premier North Division ?


Anyway surely not. They'd be placed in the South wouldn't they?Wink

Agree with the post above, to me theres no doubt interest is dying. Mostly due to Old Firm dominance, a lot of the financial side of which has now been shown to be financial doping.

From my point of view they systematically wrecked 2 Hibs teams. Having said that the boards of Clubs like Hibs are also guilty of having the most appallingly low horizons which is also driving fans away in droves. 11.000 gates are after all quite large yet when you find what wages they offer their players (I once read a quote that Riordan was on Div 2 English wages at his first stint there (ie: when he was good!) its hardly surprising how easy it is for agents to tempt them away.

I'm afraid that whilst everything Hawkwind says above is accurate, the likelihood is that the boards of some SPL clubs will be so scared of losing even some of their TV money they will probably roll over and let them back in.



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(This post was edited by wishmaster3211 on Jun 17, 2012, 10:33 PM)


oftenscore6
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Jun 18, 2012, 12:51 PM

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Re: [ladderman] THE Rangers FC or Reply Privately


In Reply To
The numbers in the survey are interesting. I don't believe that when it came to the crunch half of SPL fans would walk away if Rangers are readmitted. But a large scale boycott of games involving Rangers negates a lot of the point of readmitting them - at least attendance-wise - and is certainly achievable. If you know you're going to miss at least two home games per season, it also make a season ticket less attractive and an organised boycott of STs would certainly hurt clubs.

The Sky issue is interesting. If they rip up the deal, someone else will pick it up, and will have it when Rangers return to the SPL. A concerted campaign that made it clear to Sky that people will cancel their subscription if Rangers are readmitted would certainly make them think about it.


I don't think it'd be half either, but even it was 20 or 25%, it would be a huge impact. I was impressed with the strength of feeling in the survey and those that do walk away could well be walking away for good. Contrast that with losing a few away fans for a season or 3, depending on where they got placed....

Bearing in mind that Rangers or Celtic could theoretically finish bottom and have been relegated anyway, the TV deal surely cannot be ripped up just if a particular team are not in the SPL? But irrespective of that, financial interest should not come above integrity!



-----------------------------------------------
Last new football ground (963) Silksmore Road Brocton 0-2 Lichfield City (9/11)
With FC United: 135
On the agenda:
12/11 Hyde v FC United


ladderman
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Jun 18, 2012, 2:02 PM

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Re: [oftenscore6] THE Rangers FC or Reply Privately


Quote
Bearing in mind that Rangers or Celtic could theoretically finish bottom and have been relegated anyway, the TV deal surely cannot be ripped up just if a particular team are not in the SPL?


I have wondered about that. Especially the claim that Sky are guaranteed four Old Firm games per season, when the split season system means that there is no such guarantee.


wishmaster3211
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Jun 18, 2012, 4:00 PM

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Re: [ladderman] THE Rangers FC or Reply Privately

Its entirely believable as nobody would have predicted either of them finishing in the bottom half of the League let alone getting relegated.



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cope1
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Jun 18, 2012, 4:16 PM

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Re: [wishmaster3211] THE Rangers FC or Reply Privately

Indeed, and it's also possible that should there not be 4 OF clashes some form of 'compensation' would be due.


scottywalds
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Jun 18, 2012, 6:25 PM

Posts: 2248
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Re: [ladderman] THE Rangers FC or Reply Privately


In Reply To

Quote
Bearing in mind that Rangers or Celtic could theoretically finish bottom and have been relegated anyway, the TV deal surely cannot be ripped up just if a particular team are not in the SPL?


I have wondered about that. Especially the claim that Sky are guaranteed four Old Firm games per season, when the split season system means that there is no such guarantee.

Maybe the contract says 'all' rather than '4' Old Firm games.


Geoffa
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Jun 18, 2012, 9:22 PM

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Re: [scottywalds] THE Rangers FC or

If Rangers not in SPL may as well give Celtic trophy before season starts!


sandhurstbee
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Jun 19, 2012, 7:04 AM

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Re: [Geoffa] THE Rangers FC or Reply Privately

Why are the fixtures being issued with Team 12 (IE Rangers!) - Why can they not get the vote out of the way before issuing the fixtures wether Rangers are in the SPL or Division 3.



***********************************
Last New Ground 2016/17 (15) 29/4/2017 HIGHMOOR/IBIS RESERVES 1 Mortimer 1 - Thames Valley premier league, Premier Division



ladderman
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Jun 19, 2012, 7:55 AM

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Re: [scottywalds] THE Rangers FC or Reply Privately

So if Rangers aren't in the SPL, Sky could still have "all" of the Old Firm gamesWink


Unicorn
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Jun 19, 2012, 8:16 AM

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Re: [ladderman] THE Rangers FC or Reply Privately

I think its really odd that the old Rangers in the form of their administrators/ liquidators Duff and Phelps still have a vote in the SPL.
So the newco have one obvious vote to start with.
I would have thought at the SPL meeting the first business would be to expel the old club as they are not in a position to play any matches.
Following this the remaining 11 clubs vote on the acceptant of the new Rangers.
This procedure that they appear to be adopting makes little sense to me.


ladderman
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Jun 19, 2012, 9:16 AM

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Re: [Unicorn] THE Rangers FC or Reply Privately

I presume there's been some legal wrangling over that.


Oxford Stone
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Jun 19, 2012, 11:12 AM

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Re: [sandhurstbee] THE Rangers FC or Reply Privately


In Reply To
Why are the fixtures being issued with Team 12 (IE Rangers!) - Why can they not get the vote out of the way before issuing the fixtures wether Rangers are in the SPL or Division 3.


Had a wry smile when I saw who Team 12 have got on Boxing Day - Celtic, of course.


chienmort
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Jun 19, 2012, 11:28 AM

Posts: 1089
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Team(s): Poole Town FC, Queens Park RANGERS.


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Re: [Oxford Stone] THE Rangers FC or Reply Privately


In Reply To

In Reply To
Why are the fixtures being issued with Team 12 (IE Rangers!) - Why can they not get the vote out of the way before issuing the fixtures wether Rangers are in the SPL or Division 3.


Had a wry smile when I saw who Team 12 have got on Boxing Day - Celtic, of course.

Falkirk is not that far from Glasgow:Cool



Poole Town FC - les couilles du chien


Richard Watts
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Jun 19, 2012, 2:36 PM

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Re: [chienmort] THE Rangers FC or Reply Privately

Surely if the new Rangers don't get admitted Dunfirmline ought to be reprieved from relegation, as they were directly competing against the cheating "old" Rangers last season. Rangers' maladministration didn't directly affect Dundee's chances of gainig promotion to the Premier League.


garethwrexy
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Jun 19, 2012, 2:37 PM

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Re: [Richard Watts] THE Rangers FC or Reply Privately

are the new rangers fc allowed in the scottish fa cup ?



wrexham fc fa trophy winners 2013 !


Oxford Stone
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Jun 19, 2012, 4:55 PM

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Re: [ARL] THE Rangers FC or Reply Privately


In Reply To
It would be interesting to see the new Rangers put in SFL Division Three, though. Their away game at Queens Park would surely attract the biggest ever gate for a 4th-level game in any country? (and finance the Spiders for the next 50 years)



37774 at C Palace (60/61) to beat, in ths country and thus probably in the world (lucky to get 37.774 at that level in France or Spain)

BTW I'm surprised admin haven't moved this thread elsewhere yet...


Mr. T
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Jun 19, 2012, 5:18 PM

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Re: [Oxford Stone] THE Rangers FC or Reply Privately


In Reply To

In Reply To
It would be interesting to see the new Rangers put in SFL Division Three, though. Their away game at Queens Park would surely attract the biggest ever gate for a 4th-level game in any country? (and finance the Spiders for the next 50 years)



37774 at C Palace (60/61) to beat, in ths country and thus probably in the world (lucky to get 37.774 at that level in France or Spain)

BTW I'm surprised admin haven't moved this thread elsewhere yet...


Hmm. Not all levels are of the same depth...


Mister TwoU
First Team Star


Jun 19, 2012, 5:54 PM

Posts: 2497
Location: Back in hilly Malvern.
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Re: [wishmaster3211] THE Rangers FC or Reply Privately

Thrusting a proverbial feline among some metaphorical avians:-


'Auntie' now has this to say...

"BBC Scotland has learned that Charles Green's Sevco 5088 company is not currently permitted to inherit the name "The Rangers Football Club".
Any attempt to adopt the name "The Rangers Football Club" would require the approval of the liquidators, BDO.
Companies House has said that a name change application has not been made by Sevco 5088, and may not be possible.
The consortium insists the full name will be transferred over to Sevco 5088 in due course.
"The Rangers Football Club P.L.C.", which has the registered company number SC004276, has not yet been dissolved, but will inevitably be liquidated due to unpaid debts.
BBC Scotland can confirm that the company's liquidators, BDO, have not yet taken control of the company's affairs, and may not do so for some time.
Green's consortium confirmed to BBC Scotland that a purchase of the assets and intellectual property of The Rangers Football Club P.L.C. has been concluded with the administrators Duff & Phelps, which includes the company name.
The consortium insists the full name will be transferred in due course and that a name change is not currently an issue because liquidation of the old company has not yet commenced.
However, a Companies House spokesperson told BBC Scotland: "Sevco 5088 would not be able to apply to change its name to 'The Rangers Football Club Ltd' until either the original company is fully dissolved, a process which can take about a year to complete, or the receivers give the go-ahead for the name change to take place.
"From a regulations standpoint, once the receivers or the liquidators/administrators for the current PLC agree to a name change, Sevco 5088 could then apply to change its name to 'The Rangers Football Club Ltd'.
"If they apply without following this procedure, systems are in place to flag up names which are too similar."
Article 10.7 of the Scottish FA's Articles of Association states that the name of a club cannot be changed without board approval, while Article 74.2 states that a club's name cannot be changed to anything linked with sponsorship.
The Scottish Premier League has no specific regulations regarding the naming of clubs or their parent companies.
Green's newco continues to trade under the name Sevco 5088, which has the company number 08011390, meaning it was registered in England. The sole director listed on the Companies House website is Charles Alexander Green, and while the company may trade under any name it chooses, its legal name cannot be the same or similar to another company in the register.
The 'Sevco' prefix is a generic company name, often used by organisations which register companies on someone else's behalf. Sevco names can be registered in bulk through Companies House and renamed at a later date as long as strict naming criteria are met.
Companies House is a government agency run by the department of business and enterprise and deals with the registration and incorporation of UK businesses. All documentation relating to limited companies, including information such as company names, directors, accounts and share allocations, must be processed through the agency.
The proposed name for the new Rangers company is 'The Rangers Football Club Ltd'. All UK companies limited by liability via shares or guarantee must end with 'Limited' or 'Ltd.' - only public companies traded on the stock exchange can end in PLC or P.L.C.
Shares in Rangers Football Club were suspended from the Plus Stock Exchange on 9 January.
Other companies currently registered at Companies House with similar names include: Rangers Limited, Rangers.co.uk Limited, The Rangers FC Group Limited, Rangers Football Club of Glasgow Ltd, Rangers GB Limited and Rangers (2012) Ltd."



Professional cretin.


Chris1963
Man City Transfer Target!

Jun 19, 2012, 5:56 PM

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Re: [scottywalds] THE Rangers FC or Reply Privately


In Reply To

In Reply To
I thought they have always been GLASGOW RANGERS.

No, that was added for European competitions to show which city they were from.



I once came across a German football annual (mid-80's) which helpfully described the 'blue' Merseyside club as "FC Everton Liverpool"


wishmaster3211
First Team Star


Jun 19, 2012, 9:58 PM

Posts: 2481
Location: A small town in Monmouthshire
Team(s): Calne Town, Darlington, Rosenborg, Sussex CCC, Huddersfield RL


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Re: [Oxford Stone] THE Rangers FC or Reply Privately


In Reply To

In Reply To


BTW I'm surprised admin haven't moved this thread elsewhere yet...



When I started it, I did contemplate posting it in a thread for Scottish football but couldnt find one! Since the intent was to compare how Team 12 are treated in comparison to non league clubs in similar situations, and there were a fair few similar threads on here, it seemed as appropriate a place as any.

The post above relating to how Team 12 cant actually call theselves "THE" Rangers FC is most interesting.....Team 12 it is then!Tongue



"Run For the Hills Before They Burn"

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David (BAFC)
Reserve Team Regular

Jun 20, 2012, 12:04 AM

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Re: [Richard Watts] THE Rangers FC or Reply Privately


In Reply To
Surely if the new Rangers don't get admitted Dunfirmline ought to be reprieved from relegation, as they were directly competing against the cheating "old" Rangers last season. Rangers' maladministration didn't directly affect Dundee's chances of gainig promotion to the Premier League.


As the cheating goes back over many years, i.e. Employee Benefit Trusts could Dundee have more of a case?


Richard Watts
Youth Team Star

Jun 20, 2012, 10:07 AM

Posts: 373
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Views: 18676
Re: [David (BAFC)] THE Rangers FC or Reply Privately


In Reply To

In Reply To
Surely if the new Rangers don't get admitted Dunfirmline ought to be reprieved from relegation, as they were directly competing against the cheating "old" Rangers last season. Rangers' maladministration didn't directly affect Dundee's chances of gainig promotion to the Premier League.


As the cheating goes back over many years, i.e. Employee Benefit Trusts could Dundee have more of a case?

Whatever happens it's a mess, and it means whoever gets the twelfth Premier League place can't begin preparing properly for next season in terms of player recruitment until the matter is resolved.


Oxford Stone
Chelsea Transfer Target


Jun 20, 2012, 3:26 PM

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Re: [Richard Watts] THE Rangers FC or Reply Privately

My boss in a Rangers fan and through his blue-tinted specs thinks they will get voted out but only dropped into Division ONe as they've had enough punishment already. Time will tell. I don't think Scottish football will ever be quite the same but I hope it will be in a good, more open, cloth-cut-accordingly way.


cool_hand_luke
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Jun 20, 2012, 5:36 PM

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Re: [Oxford Stone] THE Rangers FC or Reply Privately

The only 'punishment' Rangers have had is a ten point reduction for going into admin. They still managed to finish second. The 600,000 they won for being second has gone to Hearts for an unpaid football debt (player transfer). They contested the 1yr transfer embargo imposed on them through the law courts and won. As far as I'm aware they have had no other punishment levied against them. Yet. Servco 2012 needs to face the full wrath of football law as the old shell that was Rangers FC has been liquidated. Take the titles with you then take the debt as well.


Part-Timer
Chelsea Transfer Target

Jun 20, 2012, 6:17 PM

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Re: [cool_hand_luke] THE Rangers FC or Reply Privately


In Reply To
The only 'punishment' Rangers have had is a ten point reduction for going into admin.


They have also been barred from European competition.


cool_hand_luke
Youth Team Sub

Jun 20, 2012, 6:57 PM

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Re: [Part-Timer] THE Rangers FC or Reply Privately

correct. did not get their accounts in on time and for going into admin. so long ago i had forgot that. 1yr ban from europe competition.


(This post was edited by cool_hand_luke on Jun 20, 2012, 6:58 PM)


cool_hand_luke
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Jun 20, 2012, 7:09 PM

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Re: [cool_hand_luke] THE Rangers FC or Reply Privately

http://www.rangers.co.uk/...5/0,,5~177463,00.pdf


PaulC
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Jun 20, 2012, 7:10 PM

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Re: [Part-Timer] THE Rangers FC or Reply Privately


In Reply To

In Reply To
The only 'punishment' Rangers have had is a ten point reduction for going into admin.


They have also been barred from European competition.


There's also still the small matter of breaching SFA and FIFA rules by taking court action against the SFA over the ban on signing players.


ladderman
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Jun 20, 2012, 8:25 PM

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Re: [PaulC] THE Rangers FC or Reply Privately

Is that rule actually legal though? I can see why it's there, but the law of the land/Europe surely must take precidence


leohoenig
Administrator

Jun 20, 2012, 9:55 PM

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Re: [ladderman] THE Rangers FC or Reply Privately

Of course - while the football authorities try to insist that clubs use the CAS (Court of Arbitration for Sport), it does not mean that they follow the rulings themselves. THe CAS first demanded that Gibraltar should be admitted as a member of UEFA in 2006, which did not happen. They again said they should be admitted at this year's congress, but again this has been put off (although only by a year, hopefully - the matter is up again for the 2013 Congress).



Fat AND Pompous.
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Geoffa
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Jun 21, 2012, 8:35 AM

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Re: [leohoenig] THE Rangers FC or

Heard this morning that they are thinking of buying out Bury FC and playing in the football league out of Glasgow. Can see another Milton Keynes/Wimbledon on the horizon. Think this will be a no go.

Also if The Rangers FC are put in Scottish league Div 3 all Scottish league fixtures will have to be re-arranged as one club in each division will have to be promoted. So think outcome will be they will be put in SPL.


Ray AFCW
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Jun 21, 2012, 9:53 AM

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Re: [Geoffa] THE Rangers FC or Reply Privately

Looks like Bury are (quite rightly) having none of it

http://www.buryfc.co.uk/...0422~2818003,00.html

I can think of another League One club that 'Club 12' could buy and move to Glasgow though......wouldn't that be ironic? Laugh


Richard Watts
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Jun 21, 2012, 9:54 AM

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Re: [Geoffa] THE Rangers FC or Reply Privately

BBC News this morning is suggesting they will be accepted as a member of the SPL, but immediately demoted to the SFL Division 1. What a total fudge. It's no longer the club that won scores of trophies and dominated the entire history of Scottish football along with Celtic. That club died, leaving tens of £m's of unpaid debts, and those creditors can whistle for their money. Yet it appears this completely new club starting from scratch, with a ready made stadium and no debts, will leapfrog countless other clubs that have striven (mostly in vain) for success for more than a lifetime and will in all likelihood be playing Premier League football in only their second season.


scottywalds
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Jun 21, 2012, 10:35 AM

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Re: [Ray AFCW] THE Rangers FC or Reply Privately


In Reply To
Looks like Bury are (quite rightly) having none of it

http://www.buryfc.co.uk/...0422~2818003,00.html

I can think of another League One club that 'Club 12' could buy and move to Glasgow though......wouldn't that be ironic? Laugh

Carlisle? Tongue


Richard Rundle
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Jun 21, 2012, 12:09 PM

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Re: [scottywalds] THE Rangers FC or Reply Privately

better for them to think League Two and uproot AFC Wimbledon - they're the club with the least history.


Ray AFCW
Ballboy/girl

Jun 21, 2012, 12:18 PM

Posts: 9
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Re: [Richard Rundle] THE Rangers FC or Reply Privately


In Reply To
better for them to think League Two and uproot AFC Wimbledon - they're the club with the least history.


It must have taken you hours to come up with that. Move over Jimmy Carr.....


garethwrexy
Man City Transfer Target!

Jun 21, 2012, 12:51 PM

Posts: 9305
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Re: [Ray AFCW] THE Rangers FC or Reply Privately

crazy Shocked



wrexham fc fa trophy winners 2013 !


wishmaster3211
First Team Star


Jun 21, 2012, 1:12 PM

Posts: 2481
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Re: [Richard Rundle] THE Rangers FC or Reply Privately

Would be truly scandalous if the new owners could liquidate the previous club then start waving cash around to buy another Club! I bet they are looking at it though...



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oftenscore6
Chelsea Transfer Target

Jun 21, 2012, 3:19 PM

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Team(s): FCUM, MUFC, Hammarby, St Pauli, Hawthorn (AFL)


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Re: [wishmaster3211] THE Rangers FC or Reply Privately


In Reply To
Would be truly scandalous if the new owners could liquidate the previous club then start waving cash around to buy another Club! I bet they are looking at it though...


So we have a case of club in administration, owing lots of money, can't pay off or agree CVA terms with it's main creditor. But the administrator will sell the assets (and some debts) that they'd like to keep to new owners. And we have Rangers too Wink



-----------------------------------------------
Last new football ground (963) Silksmore Road Brocton 0-2 Lichfield City (9/11)
With FC United: 135
On the agenda:
12/11 Hyde v FC United

(This post was edited by oftenscore6 on Jun 21, 2012, 3:20 PM)


Chris1963
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Jun 21, 2012, 5:34 PM

Posts: 7019
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Re: [oftenscore6] THE Rangers FC or Reply Privately

Perhaps Rangers should take over Corby Town, as that's the only place in England where they'd be welcomed with open arms.


cope1
Man City Transfer Target!

Jun 21, 2012, 8:33 PM

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Re: [Geoffa] THE Rangers FC or Reply Privately


In Reply To
Also if The Rangers FC are put in Scottish league Div 3 all Scottish league fixtures will have to be re-arranged as one club in each division will have to be promoted. So think outcome will be they will be put in SPL.

Would they? Couldn't they just shove a team up from SFL1, replace that team in with a team from SFL, that team with a team from SFL3, then "Club 12" takeover the SFL3 club's fixtures. You might need to reverse a few if Club 12 turn out to be at home at the same time as another club in the same town/city and both clubs happen to have large following which don't like each other for some strange reason - which would be weird as Club 12 is a new club which has never played before....


cope1
Man City Transfer Target!

Jun 21, 2012, 8:34 PM

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Re: [cope1] THE Rangers FC or Reply Privately

As an aside, I hope that if Rangers do end up back in the SPL someone shows them as 'Club 12' on a match day programme, perhaps even with an introduction to them being a replacement for the late Rangers FC....


wishmaster3211
First Team Star


Jun 21, 2012, 8:39 PM

Posts: 2481
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Re: [cope1] THE Rangers FC or Reply Privately

Radio 5 carrying a news article that Hibs and Hearts have already declared they are voting to kick Club 12 out. Other Clubs thought to be responding to the vast numbers of fans demanding they do the same. Only 5 votes in total needed to see some sort of justice done.



"Run For the Hills Before They Burn"

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cope1
Man City Transfer Target!

Jun 21, 2012, 9:12 PM

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Re: [wishmaster3211] THE Rangers FC or Reply Privately

Dundee United also, according to BBC Sport. Motherwell to poll fans up to 26 June. Killie the only ones looking the other way by expressing concern at an SPL without Rangers apparently.


ianh
First Team Star

Jun 21, 2012, 9:43 PM

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Re: [Ray AFCW] THE Rangers FC or Reply Privately


In Reply To

In Reply To
better for them to think League Two and uproot AFC Wimbledon - they're the club with the least history.


It must have taken you hours to come up with that. Move over Jimmy Carr.....


Wink like what you did there - Jimmy carr.....Tax avoidance Smile


krffji
Youth Team Star

Jun 21, 2012, 10:45 PM

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Re: [ianh] THE Rangers FC or Reply Privately

What Rangers did was not tax avoidance



Always researching Colchester's amateur town clubs "Before the U's" including identifying and compiling brief biogs of all first team players.
Joint author of Colchester United's Who's Who -(Breedon Books 2008).
Colchester United youth team programme editor 2001 - 2017
Colchester United Essex Senior Cup programme editor 2008 - 2018



Unicorn
Chelsea Transfer Target

Jun 22, 2012, 8:02 AM

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Views: 20308
Re: [krffji] THE Rangers FC or Reply Privately

Has it actually been stated anywhere officially that if unsuccessful with the SPL the Rangers newco would have to start at the bottom of the SFL.
The SPL clubs can vote not to admit them but will have no say in where they go after that.
I can't say i have seen any statement by the SFL saying this.


Oxford Stone
Chelsea Transfer Target


Jun 22, 2012, 8:35 AM

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Re: [Unicorn] THE Rangers FC or Reply Privately

Possibilities discussed whereby it takes 3, 1 or 0 years for Rangers to be in the SPL (to Div 3, to Div 1 or staying in SPL) - but I can see an option to make it 2. They're put in Div 3 12/13; get promotion to Div 2 for 13/14, but meanwhile restructuring is announced that for 14/15 it's back to 2 big divisions and Div 2 top 2 will be in the new, large SPL. Wouldn't surprise me as they've gone a few years without fannying around with the league system there. Maybe they'll even link in to non-league properly one day too!


Richard Watts
Youth Team Star

Jun 22, 2012, 10:38 AM

Posts: 373
Location: Bermondsey
Team(s): Dulwich Hamlet FC, Surrey CCC


Views: 20212
Re: [wishmaster3211] THE Rangers FC or Reply Privately


In Reply To
Radio 5 carrying a news article that Hibs and Hearts have already declared they are voting to kick Club 12 out. Other Clubs thought to be responding to the vast numbers of fans demanding they do the same. Only 5 votes in total needed to see some sort of justice done.

BBC Ceefax this morning reported that Aberdeen have joined Hearts and Dundee United in publicly stating that they will vote against admitting "Club 12". If Hibs have done likewise it only needs one more vote against, then I don't see how they can be placed any higher than SFL3.

Whatever happens, I think the new Rangers have acquired a lasting nickname for a very long time to come!


chienmort
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Jun 22, 2012, 10:40 AM

Posts: 1089
Location: Poole
Team(s): Poole Town FC, Queens Park RANGERS.


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Re: [krffji] THE Rangers FC or Reply Privately


In Reply To
What Rangers did was not tax avoidance


What do you call the way that the team formerly known as Glasgow Rangers are said to have paid some of their players? Oh yes it is tax evasion, a criminal offence!

Also Aberdeen have now one out against admitting Club 12 into the Scottish Premier League.



Poole Town FC - les couilles du chien


wishmaster3211
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Jun 22, 2012, 11:13 AM

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Re: [chienmort] THE Rangers FC or Reply Privately

They were never known as Glasgow Rangers! In fact this is about the only name they can now use according to the post above!

It seems likely they are going down to the bottom.

All sorts coming out about the state they are in, lets just say that they are not remotely a functioning Club. Sky were saying they don't have a bank account and some numpties are buying season tickets, for what League who knows? and their money still going to the Old Club!



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ladderman
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Jun 22, 2012, 11:52 AM

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Re: [wishmaster3211] THE Rangers FC or Reply Privately

It does look like they're going to fail to get in the SPL. We'll see where they end up, though.
But if they do end up in Div 3, and they do it properly, they could have a decent amount of money behind them by the time they get in the top flight. They'll have massive gates and can spend far more than anyone else to get promotion, yet still have money left over.
In many ways, they'll still "get away with it"


Red Adder
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Jun 22, 2012, 12:14 PM

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Re: [ladderman] THE Rangers FC or Reply Privately

Whats the betting that all the clubs come out against Gers to appease their supporters but when it comes to a secret ballot hey presto they are back in SPL ?


leohoenig
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Jun 22, 2012, 12:34 PM

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Re: [Red Adder] THE Rangers FC or Reply Privately

I must say I am getting tired of this odyssey. When's the vote? At least then the issue is coming close to being closed. (Followed by the appeal, etc.)



Fat AND Pompous.
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D A
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Jun 22, 2012, 12:43 PM

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Re: [leohoenig] THE Rangers FC or Reply Privately

Not long to endure now Leo . July 4.



'I'm not cynical. I'm just experienced'.
29/11/2012. Anyone need numbers for Cheddar F C please p/m.


leohoenig
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Jun 22, 2012, 12:57 PM

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Re: [D A] THE Rangers FC or Reply Privately

Independence Day - Of course - the answer must be to place them in the MLS!



Fat AND Pompous.
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alderman friend
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Jun 22, 2012, 1:03 PM

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Re: [Red Adder] THE Rangers FC or Reply Privately


In Reply To
Whats the betting that all the clubs come out against Gers to appease their supporters but when it comes to a secret ballot hey presto they are back in SPL ?

You are not saying a club chairman would say one thing then do another are you.


D A
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Jun 22, 2012, 1:05 PM

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Re: [leohoenig] THE Rangers FC or Reply Privately


In Reply To
Independence Day - Of course - the answer must be to place them in the MLS!


No they would have to be in the NASL or the USL ?



'I'm not cynical. I'm just experienced'.
29/11/2012. Anyone need numbers for Cheddar F C please p/m.


southend statto
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Jun 22, 2012, 2:03 PM

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Re: [D A] THE Rangers FC or Reply Privately

http://www.sabotagetimes.com/football-sport/how-rangers-killed-scottish-football-in-the-80s-and-have-to-be-relegated

enjoy


wishmaster3211
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Jun 22, 2012, 2:34 PM

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Re: [southend statto] THE Rangers FC or Reply Privately

Thanks for that link - its bloody excellent!

My time in Scotland was 1985-89, completely agree with him. I remember Hearts and Dundee Utd in Europe, Hearts nearly winning the League, etc..



"Run For the Hills Before They Burn"

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ladderman
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Jun 22, 2012, 4:59 PM

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Re: [southend statto] THE Rangers FC or Reply Privately


In Reply To


I did. thanks


PaulC
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Jun 22, 2012, 5:46 PM

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Re: [Richard Watts] THE Rangers FC or Reply Privately


In Reply To
Yet it appears this completely new club starting from scratch, with a ready made stadium and no debts, will leapfrog countless other clubs that have striven (mostly in vain) for success for more than a lifetime and will in all likelihood be playing Premier League football in only their second season.


And what happened to Middlesbrough when they went into liquidation? Didn't the new club have a ready made stadium and no debts? I believe they even retained their divisional status.



(This post was edited by PaulC on Jun 22, 2012, 5:47 PM)


leohoenig
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Re: [ladderman] THE Rangers FC or Reply Privately

A good article, but there is one point that needs to be made. This is the last season Scotland has two Champions League places. They were 15th in the rankings, which is the lowest place with two champions league places, they are 18th for next season but then will drop drastically as Scotland's last good season (2007/8) is taken out of the table



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ladderman
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Jun 22, 2012, 6:01 PM

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Re: [leohoenig] THE Rangers FC or Reply Privately

Indeed.


Richard Watts
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Jun 22, 2012, 10:02 PM

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Re: [PaulC] THE Rangers FC or Reply Privately


In Reply To
And what happened to Middlesbrough when they went into liquidation? Didn't the new club have a ready made stadium and no debts? I believe they even retained their divisional status.

What's that got to do with it?


PaulC
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Jun 22, 2012, 10:42 PM

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Re: [Richard Watts] THE Rangers FC or Reply Privately


In Reply To
What's that got to do with it?


It's a precedent.



wishmaster3211
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Jun 23, 2012, 12:41 AM

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Re: [PaulC] THE Rangers FC or Reply Privately

Times very different then. If you go back far enough you can find clubs that went under and never came back and all stages in between.

The two recent Scottish examples are Gretna and Livingston. There may be others. I seem to recall Dundee being in trouble a few years ago.

Oh and whatever happened to Clydebank?



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stanley
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Jun 23, 2012, 2:55 AM

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Re: [wishmaster3211] THE Rangers FC or Reply Privately

The real precedent for this situation was set by what happened to Airdrie.

Aidrieonians went out of business and then applied to join the SFL (as a new club-Airdrie United) but were rejected in favour of Gretna. Aidrie United went on to take over Clydebank. Clydebank then reformed in the juniors and have worked their way up to the top league in the west. Airdrie's only option of league football was to take over another club after they'd been rejected in the vote because of the lack of a pyramid system but that's a debate for another thread.

Here's an article on the Airdire/Gretna situation back in 2002: http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2002/jun/18/newsstory.sport3

Interest quotes: "But the 27 SFL chairmen eligible to vote turned down the obvious financial benefits to instead welcome Gretna back to Scottish football for the first time since 1947."

"But the chairmen decided that to allow Airdrie United to emerge from the blackened ashes of Airdrieonians would be setting a dangerous precedent that might see cash-strapped football clubs disappear only to reappear under a different guise.

Donald said: "I think the potential precedent that may have been set may have been a major factor.

"There was certainly concern about that and I think it was certainly one element that went towards it.""

---

The "new" Rangers should have to apply for the vacant spot in the third division just like Airdrie had to and it should be put to a vote. It'll be interesting to see if the principles from 2002 are still in place...(yeah right). It wouldn't surprise me if the leagues are restructured or Rangers are somehow placed in the first division just so they can get back quicker. This whole thing has been a farce and Rangers haven't helped matters by acting like they're the innocent victims in all of this.


casualobserver
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Jun 23, 2012, 2:58 AM

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Re: [wishmaster3211] THE Rangers FC or Reply Privately


In Reply To
Oh and whatever happened to Clydebank?


The story begins with Airdrieonians. When they folded, a newco was formed, and attempted to join the Third Division. The SFL rejected them in favour of Gretna, so they bought out Clydebank and shifted them to Airdrie instead. The new club, Airdrie United, inherited Clydebank's place in the Second Division and are, of course, still playing in the SFL. A group of Clydebank supporters formed a phoenix club and they're currently playing in the Junior leagues.

Edit: Beaten to it! Tongue


(This post was edited by casualobserver on Jun 23, 2012, 2:59 AM)


Unicorn
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Jun 23, 2012, 7:56 AM

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Re: [Ray AFCW] THE Rangers FC or Reply Privately

I have not seen any official comment from Celtic.
Has anyone read any indication of how they will vote.


ladderman
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Jun 23, 2012, 9:01 AM

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Re: [wishmaster3211] THE Rangers FC or Reply Privately


In Reply To
Oh and whatever happened to Clydebank?


My adopted Scottish club were murdered by Airdire. Pure & simple. I hope that no Aidrie fans are taking the moral high-ground on this, and Livingstone aren't exactly whiter than white seeing as they also stole someone else's club.

I doubt there will be a restructuring of the Scottish League to move Rangers up quicker, most clubs will get two home games out of them on their way back to the SPL.


wishmaster3211
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Jun 23, 2012, 10:37 AM

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Re: [ladderman] THE Rangers FC or Reply Privately

Really interesting posts re Airdrie.

So. Which Clubs are Rangers thinking of buying in SFL1 i wonder?

Really wouldnt put it past them.



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Mister TwoU
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Jun 23, 2012, 10:41 AM

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Re: [ladderman] THE Rangers FC or Reply Privately

I wouldn't put it past the SFA to force a complete remodel over this!

SPL + 2 SFL First Divisions of 14 teams each?

Concertinaing the professional levels might do wonders for the attitudes of Junior sides with respect to creating this Scottish Pyramid too - Make four regional non-league divisions at the summit of that pyramid, North, West & East already 'in place' with the HL, EOSL & Juniors and a South competition should be carvable from that lot + the SOSL.



Professional cretin.


PaulC
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Jun 23, 2012, 11:07 AM

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Re: [ladderman] THE Rangers FC or Reply Privately


In Reply To
My adopted Scottish club were murdered by Airdire. Pure & simple.


Clydebank were going down the plughole long before Airdrie stepped in.

Their ground was sold in 1996 and the owner spent the proceeds in the USA. They spent their last 6 years as nomads at Boghead and then Cappielow. Their support melted away like snow off a dyke. The clubs owners even tried to move to Dublin and still complete in the Scottish leagues -as well as contemplating moves to Carlisle and Galashiels.

I really don't think Airdrie can be blamed for boarding a sinking ship. They bought from Clydebank's administrator what few assets Clydebank had - they operated out of a portacabin - - and started them afresh at Airdrie.



(This post was edited by PaulC on Jun 23, 2012, 11:09 AM)


wishmaster3211
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Jun 23, 2012, 11:14 AM

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Re: [PaulC] THE Rangers FC or Reply Privately

The division sizes are too small in Scotland. One fewer step is needed with more teams in all (SPL is too small too though I expect they will keep that at a level where everyone gets to play Celtic twice at home - except they dont). The split is ridiculous in a division dominated by two sides (Wink). I'm amazed that anybody goes to games after the split in either part, except for the Old Firm one.

Be interesting to see what happens.



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Siberian Monkey
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Jun 23, 2012, 11:20 AM

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Re: [wishmaster3211] THE Rangers FC or Reply Privately

Can the SFL just do a straight swap, ie Club 12 for Dundee/ Dunfermline, or must there be a proper election process, ie for a place in the third division? If it's the latter then there's nothing to stop other clubs applying.

Re the newco trying to buy out another club - I also wouldn't put it past them to have a crack at this, especially if they're voted into the third division. However, given Rangers' 'misdemeanors', I'd expect the footballing authorities to take a very dim view of it.


ladderman
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Jun 23, 2012, 11:26 AM

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Re: [PaulC] THE Rangers FC or Reply Privately

Airdrie were quick to feed off the carcass, regardless of whether Clydebank were saveable. They certainly weren't saveable after they'd moved to Airdrie/


scottywalds
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Jun 23, 2012, 1:23 PM

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Re: [stanley] THE Rangers FC or Reply Privately


In Reply To
The "new" Rangers should have to apply for the vacant spot in the third division

There is no vacant spot - it is currently full. The vacant spot is in the SPL... ad there is the impending vote coming up on whether the new Rangers can take this vacancy, or whether it will go to an SFL team (or nobody?). This may then filter down in the SFL 3rd division, but it might not.


Richard Watts
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Jun 23, 2012, 5:16 PM

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Re: [PaulC] THE Rangers FC or Reply Privately


In Reply To

In Reply To
What's that got to do with it?


It's a precedent.

Different country and more than a quarter of a cenutry ago. Wouldn't happen now if Middlesbrough went pop.


Unicorn
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Jun 23, 2012, 6:49 PM

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Re: [PaulC] THE Rangers FC or Reply Privately


In Reply To

In Reply To
What's that got to do with it?


It's a precedent.


Surely a precedent is only used legally when there is no obvious law covering an event and a judge makes a decision which others then use to further their legal argument should such a situation occur again.
Rules and regulations in football change every year so what happened in the past is usually of no consequence.
And if it complied with the rules and they have not changed it did not set a precedent it is simply applying the rules that existed at that time.
And as pointed out we are not Scotland.


Red Adder
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Jun 24, 2012, 3:06 PM

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Re: [Unicorn] THE Rangers FC or Reply Privately

I gather some of the players are now saying that as a new co is being set up they not wish to "honour" their contracts. My understanding is that under English TUPE law (which may not apply in Scotland) they would have an option to continue on identical turnms or be able to end their contracts forthwith. Natch Gers lawyers disagree.


ladderman
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Jun 24, 2012, 3:19 PM

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Re: [Red Adder] THE Rangers FC or Reply Privately

Employent experts all seem to think the players are correct. FIFA have remained quiet on the matter, but the law of the land should take precidence, anyway.
If, as is beginning to seem possible, Rangers end up in Div 3 they're probably better off without having to honour the contracts as they clearly don't need to pay those kind of wages to get promoted. Obviously they wouldn't get any transfer fees, though.


wishmaster3211
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Jun 24, 2012, 3:57 PM

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Re: [ladderman] THE Rangers FC or Reply Privately

Contracts wouldve been breached by non payment. I always thought a liquidated club lost all its players. Theyd be in a right mess in d3 paying wages they obviously couldnt afford even with premier tv money!



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ladderman
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Jun 24, 2012, 7:33 PM

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Re: [wishmaster3211] THE Rangers FC or Reply Privately

I read that as "Premier TV" money first of all - ie the bastard son of Setanta. It will be interesting to see if someone picks up live coverage of the Scottish League if AFC Rangers are in it and how that deal works out


cope1
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Jun 24, 2012, 7:44 PM

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Re: [Mister TwoU] THE Rangers FC or Reply Privately


In Reply To
I wouldn't put it past the SFA to force a complete remodel over this!

SPL + 2 SFL First Divisions of 14 teams each?

Concertinaing the professional levels might do wonders for the attitudes of Junior sides with respect to creating this Scottish Pyramid too - Make four regional non-league divisions at the summit of that pyramid, North, West & East already 'in place' with the HL, EOSL & Juniors and a South competition should be carvable from that lot + the SOSL.


I would be willing to accept Rangers getting off likely if it meant a complete re-drawing of the game north of the border. Allowing them into SFL 3 but then changing it into SFL North and South, perhaps also increasing the top divisions in the process, would be worth the compromise in sporting integrity.


ralphtheclaret
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Jun 25, 2012, 11:57 AM

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Re: [ladderman] THE Rangers FC or Reply Privately

Interesting comment from ladderman about the "murder" of Clydebank a club who originally attempted entry into the league by buying East Stirling and attempting to close them down...anyone else remember ES Clydebank ?...what goes around comes around..


ladderman
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Jun 25, 2012, 12:48 PM

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Re: [ralphtheclaret] THE Rangers FC or Reply Privately

Well, I don't remember them. I doubt I was even a twinkle in my mum's eye in 1964. And that's the point, to suggest what happened 38 years later is somehow karma is pushing it a bit. Your facts aren't even correct; The owners of East Stirling (the Steedmans) moved their club to Clydebank adn merged with Clydebank Juniors. They were defeated in court after a seaso and chose to stay in Clydebank to form a new Clydebank club.


ralphtheclaret
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Jun 25, 2012, 1:12 PM

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Re: [ladderman] THE Rangers FC or Reply Privately

It is well documented that they bought ES with the intention of moving them to Clydebank..no other purpose interested them otherwise they'd have gone back to Falkirk with ES..if that isn't attempting to close down the existing club and move it please explain what they were doing..Clydebank were destined to fail as were Meadowbank neither deserved a League place and both were destined to die...


(This post was edited by ralphtheclaret on Jun 25, 2012, 1:14 PM)


ladderman
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Jun 25, 2012, 2:01 PM

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Re: [ralphtheclaret] THE Rangers FC or Reply Privately

I don’t what the intentions of the Steedmans were 48 years ago. As I said, I wasn’t born. But to suggest that Clydebank deserved to die because of something that happened 38 years before is absurd.
As for “deserving” a league place, both were legitimately elected and Clydebank did pretty well and had a brief spell in the SPL.
Do Livingstone or Airdrie “deserve” a place in the Scottish League?


cool_hand_luke
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Jun 25, 2012, 3:27 PM

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Re: [ladderman] THE Rangers FC or Reply Privately

Strathclyde Police are investigating the takeover of Rangers FC in May 2011. Called in by administrators Duff and Phelps.


PaulC
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Jun 25, 2012, 4:36 PM

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Re: [cool_hand_luke] THE Rangers FC or Reply Privately

Five clubs have now stated publicly that they will vote against the new Rangers being admitted to the SPL ... so that's it ... if they keep their word.


cope1
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Jun 25, 2012, 6:49 PM

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Re: [PaulC] THE Rangers FC or Reply Privately

Six according to the BBC. Hibs, Hearts, Dundee United, Aberdeen, Inverness CT and St Johnstone.


(This post was edited by cope1 on Jun 25, 2012, 6:51 PM)


Mister TwoU
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Jun 25, 2012, 10:52 PM

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Re: [cope1] THE Rangers FC or Reply Privately

What happens with abstentions? Are abstentions even allowed?



Professional cretin.


buncranaboy
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Jun 25, 2012, 10:57 PM

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Re: [Mister TwoU] THE Rangers FC or Reply Privately


In Reply To
What happens with abstentions? Are abstentions even allowed?



Nobody abstains in Scotland.


wishmaster3211
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Jun 25, 2012, 11:38 PM

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Re: [buncranaboy] THE Rangers FC or Reply Privately


In Reply To

In Reply To
What happens with abstentions? Are abstentions even allowed?



Nobody abstains in Scotland.


i followed Meadowbank does that count?

I dont know what they did to not deserve their place. i remember when they nearly goy into the spl. Livingston now thats another thing.



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jon b
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Jun 26, 2012, 7:32 AM

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Re: [wishmaster3211] THE Rangers FC or Reply Privately

Looks like the SPL is closed to Charles Green's newco. Their reaction seems to be to apply for membership of the First Division.

Why exactly should the new co expect to start at or near the top? If they're running away from their debts and have a clutch of recent honours won through the advantage of letting the rest of us mugs pay the taxman whilst they don't, surely they should go to the bottom of the leagues.

The only history they seem willing to relinquish is that showing monies owed. They acted big on our money. Shades of RBS and BOS. Unimpressed


ladderman
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Jun 26, 2012, 7:55 AM

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Re: [jon b] THE Rangers FC or Reply Privately

The one constant in all of this sorry state of affairs has been Rangers' arrogance and a general belief that they haven't really done anything wrong - so of course they think they should go straight into Division One. The fly in the ointment for them is that only one side goes up, so it effectively blocks promotion for a season, whereas there's two up from Division Three so there's still something for sides to play for, as well as making a lot of cash. I guess a lot of the outcome depends on the voting structure of the Scottish League.


Unicorn
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Re: [ladderman] THE Rangers FC or Reply Privately


In Reply To
The one constant in all of this sorry state of affairs has been Rangers' arrogance and a general belief that they haven't really done anything wrong - so of course they think they should go straight into Division One. The fly in the ointment for them is that only one side goes up, so it effectively blocks promotion for a season, whereas there's two up from Division Three so there's still something for sides to play for, as well as making a lot of cash. I guess a lot of the outcome depends on the voting structure of the Scottish League.


Sorry if i am being a bit slow here but if the Newco went into the first division what prevents them from being the one promoted side at the end of 2012/13 season.


acmold
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Re: [Unicorn] THE Rangers FC or


In Reply To

In Reply To
The one constant in all of this sorry state of affairs has been Rangers' arrogance and a general belief that they haven't really done anything wrong - so of course they think they should go straight into Division One. The fly in the ointment for them is that only one side goes up, so it effectively blocks promotion for a season, whereas there's two up from Division Three so there's still something for sides to play for, as well as making a lot of cash. I guess a lot of the outcome depends on the voting structure of the Scottish League.


Sorry if i am being a bit slow here but if the Newco went into the first division what prevents them from being the one promoted side at the end of 2012/13 season.


Think we presume "Newco" Rangers will win the league thus making it a nothing season for all the other teams (except fighting relegation) as there is only one promotion place to the Premier Division.


Unicorn
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Re: [acmold] THE Rangers FC or Reply Privately


In Reply To

In Reply To

In Reply To
The one constant in all of this sorry state of affairs has been Rangers' arrogance and a general belief that they haven't really done anything wrong - so of course they think they should go straight into Division One. The fly in the ointment for them is that only one side goes up, so it effectively blocks promotion for a season, whereas there's two up from Division Three so there's still something for sides to play for, as well as making a lot of cash. I guess a lot of the outcome depends on the voting structure of the Scottish League.


Sorry if i am being a bit slow here but if the Newco went into the first division what prevents them from being the one promoted side at the end of 2012/13 season.


Think we presume "Newco" Rangers will win the league thus making it a nothing season for all the other teams (except fighting relegation) as there is only one promotion place to the Premier Division.


Thanks.Got it now. It effectively blocks others not them.


chienmort
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Re: [Unicorn] THE Rangers FC or Reply Privately


In Reply To

In Reply To

In Reply To

In Reply To
The one constant in all of this sorry state of affairs has been Rangers' arrogance and a general belief that they haven't really done anything wrong - so of course they think they should go straight into Division One. The fly in the ointment for them is that only one side goes up, so it effectively blocks promotion for a season, whereas there's two up from Division Three so there's still something for sides to play for, as well as making a lot of cash. I guess a lot of the outcome depends on the voting structure of the Scottish League.


Sorry if i am being a bit slow here but if the Newco went into the first division what prevents them from being the one promoted side at the end of 2012/13 season.


Think we presume "Newco" Rangers will win the league thus making it a nothing season for all the other teams (except fighting relegation) as there is only one promotion place to the Premier Division.


Thanks.Got it now. It effectively blocks others not them.

So a good reason not to allow them in at Div 1?



Poole Town FC - les couilles du chien


Jamesie
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Re: [chienmort] THE Rangers FC or


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So a good reason not to allow them in at Div 1?

I guess the lure of a potential pay-day for nearly all the members of the SFL over the next few seasons if they are placed in Div 3 might sway where they are put if they get rejected from the SPL.



Just a note to anyone who is wondering, I am no longer a moderator of this forum due to current personal circumstances and work commitments. If you need help, contact leohoenig or Steve walker. Thank You.


ColtheJock
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Re: [chienmort] THE Rangers FC or Reply Privately

I have watched and listend to the whole Ranger's carry on with a big smile on my face. My granddad was a staunch Ranger's fan, my brother and Uncle are blue noses, thankfully my other Uncle saved me and took me to Hamilton Academicals when I was six. I also lost a distant relative in the Ibrox Disaster in 1971.

It seems that SPL sides have decided that they want to see Ranger's further punished mainly due to the views of their fans. This could be a further nail in the coffin of Scottish football. But if they do not get back into the SPL, and I would council caution until the vote on the 4th July, as maybe some clubds might further consider the possible financial ramifications for them. In the end the Newco if accepted in the Scottish League should have to start at the bottom and not straight in the 1st Division. It would be a stark reminder for club's to start looking after thier finances more.

More clubs need to develop players, which I have admired Hamilton for over the last 5 years, they seem to be trying to do the right thing, be careful with money, give young player's a chance and try to keep the club stable.

We will see what happen's!!!!!

Colin.

www.thamesmeadtownfc.co.uk



Colin M


Richard Watts
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Re: [jon b] THE Rangers FC or Reply Privately


In Reply To
Looks like the SPL is closed to Charles Green's newco. Their reaction seems to be to apply for membership of the First Division.

Whilst it wouldn't surprise me if they try it on, surely they must apply for membership of the SFL, then the SFL decides which division to place them in? How can they apply for membership of a specific division within the SFL? The arrogance of Rangers seems to know no bounds. One thing's for sure, they'll have pariah status amongst the whole of the rest of Scottish football for a long time to come.


Unicorn
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Re: [Richard Watts] THE Rangers FC or Reply Privately


In Reply To

In Reply To
Looks like the SPL is closed to Charles Green's newco. Their reaction seems to be to apply for membership of the First Division.

Whilst it wouldn't surprise me if they try it on, surely they must apply for membership of the SFL, then the SFL decides which division to place them in? How can they apply for membership of a specific division within the SFL? The arrogance of Rangers seems to know no bounds. One thing's for sure, they'll have pariah status amongst the whole of the rest of Scottish football for a long time to come.


They don't seem to have any rules in Scotland regarding this type of thing.
What next the SFL clubs have to vote on which division the newco are put in.


PaulC
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Re: [Unicorn] THE Rangers FC or Reply Privately

<quote>They don't seem to have any rules in Scotland regarding this type of thing.
What next the SFL clubs have to vote on which division the newco are put in.</quote>

But those ARE the rules.

There are apparently rules in England but where a club ends up is anyone's guess until the FA tosses the coin.



Unicorn
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Re: [PaulC] THE Rangers FC or Reply Privately


In Reply To
<quote>They don't seem to have any rules in Scotland regarding this type of thing.
What next the SFL clubs have to vote on which division the newco are put in.</quote>

But those ARE the rules.

There are apparently rules in England but where a club ends up is anyone's guess until the FA tosses the coin.


Hardly they don't even no whether Dunfermline should be reprieved or Dundee promoted.
They don't know where to restart the newco.
No wonder the SFA think this is the time for major change because this lacks any form of direction.
It like electing a government and then holding a referendum every time there is a decision to make.
So the SPL dont want Rangers. What if the SFL clubs don't want them either. Do they just stop playing.
Ridiculous lack of rules.


wishmaster3211
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Re: [Unicorn] THE Rangers FC or Reply Privately

Are we sure they have no rules or are we guilty of assuming they have simply because its harder to find out what said rules are? We are all very familiar on here with English FA Rules due to how often these issues occur and they have become public knowledge. My view is that previous events suggest that the relegated side will get repreived, but see below! As to what division they end up in logically it should be 3 (if there still is a 3...).

The Club 12 saga certainly shows no sign of abating. They are now losing players and the SFL is meeting today at Hampden to discuss "restructuring"....which could muddy the waters even more!



"Run For the Hills Before They Burn"

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(This post was edited by wishmaster3211 on Jun 26, 2012, 5:41 PM)


PaulC
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Re: [Unicorn] THE Rangers FC or Reply Privately


In Reply To
So the SPL dont want Rangers. What if the SFL clubs don't want them either. Do they just stop playing.
Ridiculous lack of rules.


But those ARE the rules. "Rangers" have applied to join the SPL and require a 2/3 majority. If they don't get it they will apply to join the SFL and will require 75% of the clubs to vote to accept them. If they are accepted, the SFL will decide where they should be placed. If they aren't accepted they will have to go elsewhere (or take a year out) and try again next year.

What's wrong with that?



Unicorn
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Re: [PaulC] THE Rangers FC or Reply Privately


In Reply To

In Reply To
So the SPL dont want Rangers. What if the SFL clubs don't want them either. Do they just stop playing.
Ridiculous lack of rules.


But those ARE the rules. "Rangers" have applied to join the SPL and require a 2/3 majority. If they don't get it they will apply to join the SFL and will require 75% of the clubs to vote to accept them. If they are accepted, the SFL will decide where they should be placed. If they aren't accepted they will have to go elsewhere (or take a year out) and try again next year.

What's wrong with that?


Just about everything.
This is Rangers.
Are you serious.


cope1
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Re: [Unicorn] THE Rangers FC or Reply Privately


In Reply To

In Reply To

In Reply To
So the SPL dont want Rangers. What if the SFL clubs don't want them either. Do they just stop playing.
Ridiculous lack of rules.


But those ARE the rules. "Rangers" have applied to join the SPL and require a 2/3 majority. If they don't get it they will apply to join the SFL and will require 75% of the clubs to vote to accept them. If they are accepted, the SFL will decide where they should be placed. If they aren't accepted they will have to go elsewhere (or take a year out) and try again next year.

What's wrong with that?


Just about everything.
This is Rangers.
Are you serious.

What is actually wrong with that? It sounds like a perfectly clear explanation to me. It may not be what people think the rules should be but it's clear enough.


PaulC
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Re: [Unicorn] THE Rangers FC or Reply Privately

Should the club formerly known as Rangers have different rules from everyone else?


Unicorn
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Re: [PaulC] THE Rangers FC or Reply Privately


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Should the club formerly known as Rangers have different rules from everyone else?


Yes and they will. Not that i can see any actual rules.
Your not living in the real world.
The SFA need a strong Rangers.
They should be put in division one and not get totally off .
But Division three. It would be a joke.


PaulC
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Re: [Unicorn] THE Rangers FC or Reply Privately

I wonder how many of the minnows remember Rangers actions in 1964 when they tried to get rid of Albion Rovers, Berwick Rangers, Stranraer, Brechin and Stenhousemuir.

They circulated the remaining clubs with their plans but didn't include these five on their mailing list.

As a Stranraer committee man said recently “This situation is another of the great ironies that football throws up. We could now determine whether Rangers get into the SFL and what division they come into after they tried to throw us out all those years ago."


(This post was edited by PaulC on Jun 26, 2012, 6:15 PM)


Mr. T
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Re: [PaulC] THE Rangers FC or Reply Privately


In Reply To
I wonder how many of the minnows remember Rangers actions in 1964 when they tried to get rid of Albion Rovers, Berwick Rangers, Stranraer, Brechin and Stenhousemuir.

Before my time but I presume that in a sense they eventually got their way when the two division setup was abolished (and way before the English premier league).

What was the story behind it? Did Rangers see themselves as Manchester United might in playing at Bedford or Dorchester and consider it demeaning?


(This post was edited by Mr. T on Jun 26, 2012, 6:19 PM)


PaulC
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Re: [PaulC] THE Rangers FC or Reply Privately

"Ibrox chairman David Murray applied for an interdict, on behalf of his company Carnegie, for a debt of around £30,000 owed by Airdrie.

Mr Murray said: "I feel very sorry for Airdrie and their supporters but we're running a business. We have given them repeated warnings and felt they were playing on our good nature." "
http://news.bbc.co.uk/.../scotland/628268.stm

Airdrie were subsequently liquidated in 2002.

A lot of clubs will not be falling over backwards to help them out.


alderman friend
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Jun 26, 2012, 6:39 PM

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Re: [Unicorn] THE Rangers FC or Reply Privately


In Reply To

In Reply To

In Reply To
So the SPL dont want Rangers. What if the SFL clubs don't want them either. Do they just stop playing.
Ridiculous lack of rules.


But those ARE the rules. "Rangers" have applied to join the SPL and require a 2/3 majority. If they don't get it they will apply to join the SFL and will require 75% of the clubs to vote to accept them. If they are accepted, the SFL will decide where they should be placed. If they aren't accepted they will have to go elsewhere (or take a year out) and try again next year.

What's wrong with that?


Just about everything.
This is Rangers.
Are you serious.This is a new club so why should they be different to any other club. They should start at the bottom./



Beano
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Jun 26, 2012, 6:42 PM

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Re: [Unicorn] THE Rangers FC or Reply Privately


In Reply To

In Reply To
Should the club formerly known as Rangers have different rules from everyone else?


Yes and they will. Not that i can see any actual rules.
Your not living in the real world.
The SFA need a strong Rangers.
They should be put in division one and not get totally off .
But Division three. It would be a joke.


Sorry, but I can't agree with you there. Rangers are guilty of systematic cheating to the point of having potentially broken the law by cheating the public revenue. The consequences should be severe.

If they have to earn their place back in the SPL by actually winning football matches, the majority of clubs in Scotland could benefit from home matches against the reformed club, which will quite usefully use up the time that "newco" are banned from Europe. If newco win their way through the divisions, they may even emerge from the process a stronger club.


Unicorn
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Re: [PaulC] THE Rangers FC or Reply Privately

Anyway this has got away from my original point.
Dunfermline and Dundee both think they should both have the place in the SPL.
But there are no actual rules that cover this.There really ought to be.
The Rangers placement should be made at a meeting of the SPL,SFL and the SFA. Whatever they decide should become the rule and should be applied to any club in a similar position in the future.
It should not be left to clubs who may have had bad experiences in the past and therefore have an agenda against Rangers or indeed any club.
Scottish football is just not in a position to screw up one of its two major clubs. If it does its has committed suicide.


kentrebel
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Jun 26, 2012, 7:07 PM

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Re: [Beano] THE Rangers FC or Reply Privately

Cynical hat on now

SFL clubs could vote to put them in Div 3 just so the vast majority of all SFL clubs get the benefit of one really good crowd each season as they probably rise through the league rather than only SFL 1 clubs getting a windfall Wink


Beano
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Re: [kentrebel] THE Rangers FC or Reply Privately

Exactly! Let the smaller clubs get something out of this fiasco.


seadog41
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THE Rangers FC or Reply Privately

If newco Rangers end up in Div3 then the beneficiaries-in-chief would be Queens Park FC.

Of the current Div 3 clubs they alone have the stadium and infrastructure to maximise the income from travelling Rangers support.

At least two home games with 40,000+ crowds will see the Spiders in clover for many moons to come.



Trust Member Scarborough Athletic FC



PaulC
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Re: [seadog41] THE Rangers FC or Reply Privately

Travelling Rangers support in the SPL was around 3000. Probably 300 in SFL3


cope1
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Re: [kentrebel] THE Rangers FC or Reply Privately


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Cynical hat on now

SFL clubs could vote to put them in Div 3 just so the vast majority of all SFL clubs get the benefit of one really good crowd each season as they probably rise through the league rather than only SFL 1 clubs getting a windfall Wink

Actually it'd be TWO matches - assuming we're only counting the home games.


Richard Watts
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Re: [Unicorn] THE Rangers FC or Reply Privately


In Reply To

In Reply To
Should the club formerly known as Rangers have different rules from everyone else?


Yes and they will. Not that i can see any actual rules.
Your not living in the real world.
The SFA need a strong Rangers.
They should be put in division one and not get totally off .
But Division three. It would be a joke.

Without wishing to waffle on, I'd just like to say I absolutely disagree with you as strongly as possible on each and every point.

They should consider themselves damn lucky if they get a place in SFL Division 3 for next season.


Unicorn
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Re: [Richard Watts] THE Rangers FC or Reply Privately


In Reply To

In Reply To

In Reply To
Should the club formerly known as Rangers have different rules from everyone else?


Yes and they will. Not that i can see any actual rules.
Your not living in the real world.
The SFA need a strong Rangers.
They should be put in division one and not get totally off .
But Division three. It would be a joke.

Without wishing to waffle on, I'd just like to say I absolutely disagree with you as strongly as possible on each and every point.

They should consider themselves damn lucky if they get a place in SFL Division 3 for next season.


Morally of course you are right.
But i can't look at it that way.
If i was running the business(and the SFA is a business) i would do everything in my power to protect Rangers from too heavier punishment.
I feel thats what the SFA should and will do.
But to come back yet again to my actual point if they had pre agreed procedures there would be nothing to talk about or vote on.


buncranaboy
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Re: [Unicorn] THE Rangers FC or Reply Privately

Punishment ? They didn't pay the bills FFS. If I don't pay my mortgage, my friendly building society will take the house away from me and my family, even though it wouldn't be my family's fault. They could always plead to start again with a fresh mortgage and me out of the way (or hiding in a closet like John Darwin) but I wouldn't fancy their chances.

Who owns Ibrox by the way? I assume it's an asset of a different company to the one which accumulated all the debt............


Unicorn
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Re: [buncranaboy] THE Rangers FC or Reply Privately


In Reply To
Punishment ? They didn't pay the bills FFS. If I don't pay my mortgage, my friendly building society will take the house away from me and my family, even though it wouldn't be my family's fault. They could always plead to start again with a fresh mortgage and me out of the way (or hiding in a closet like John Darwin) but I wouldn't fancy their chances.

Who owns Ibrox by the way? I assume it's an asset of a different company to the one which accumulated all the debt............


Don't really see what any of that first part has to do with Scottish Football.
Who owns Ibrox. Obviously not the part of Rangers thats being liquidated.


wishmaster3211
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Re: [buncranaboy] THE Rangers FC or Reply Privately

Yes, nothing has been said about that. I bet its a Darlington style scenario where some shell company owns it and rents it back to them.

If the Rules are what is being quoted (IE: unlike us the amount of relegations isnt mandated but voted on an individual basis) it is a bit crap. But Scottish football didnt get into the state its in by not being badly adminstered.

If they were English they basically wouldn't be playing next year...although as has been said on here before, we await how tough the FA are when a big club goes to the wall. All very easy to hand out punishments to the likes of Rushden.

That said, players are resigning every 5 minutes at the moment! They have hardly got a team now. I think they are in deep deep shit to be honest.....

Maybe they could buy Raj Singhs Darlington football share and play in the Conference ShockedWink



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(This post was edited by wishmaster3211 on Jun 26, 2012, 8:46 PM)


DaveU
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Re: [wishmaster3211] THE Rangers FC or Reply Privately

If they get elected to the Glasgow Sunday League it will be more than they deserve



There are 10 types of people in this world. Those who understand binary and those who don't.


PaulC
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Re: [Unicorn] THE Rangers FC or Reply Privately


In Reply To
But to come back yet again to my actual point if they had pre agreed procedures there would be nothing to talk about or vote on.


But there ARE procedures. Rangers will apply to the SPL and with require 8 votes for admission. If they fail they will apply to the SFL and will require 23 votes. That's the procedure.



PaulC
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Re: [DaveU] THE Rangers FC or Reply Privately


In Reply To
If they get elected to the Glasgow Sunday League it will be more than they deserve


Just seen tweets saying Forth Valley Welfare League and Dalgety Bay 7-a-side Leagues say no to newco.


Unicorn
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Re: [PaulC] THE Rangers FC or Reply Privately


In Reply To

In Reply To
But to come back yet again to my actual point if they had pre agreed procedures there would be nothing to talk about or vote on.


But there ARE procedures. Rangers will apply to the SPL and with require 8 votes for admission. If they fail they will apply to the SFL and will require 23 votes. That's the procedure.


So you keep saying.
But i view clubs voting on such matters as the absence of a procedure.
There should be set rules about what happens in cases like these. Rules which are previously set without any prejudice to any particular club.
Thats what i think.Thats what we have in England.
I i am pretty sure after this mess thats what they will have in Scotland in the future.


PaulC
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Jun 26, 2012, 10:29 PM

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Re: [Unicorn] THE Rangers FC or Reply Privately

You seem to think the only acceptable procedures are those operating in England.

From this side of the border they appear a bit of a dog's breakfast.

A League comprises its clubs. The clubs should decide, rather than decisions being passed down from above as the FA does.


(This post was edited by PaulC on Jun 26, 2012, 10:31 PM)


Unicorn
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Re: [PaulC] THE Rangers FC or Reply Privately


In Reply To
You seem to think the only acceptable procedures are those operating in England.

From this side of the border they appear a bit of a dog's breakfast.

A League comprises its clubs. The clubs should decide, rather than decisions being passed down from above as the FA does.


Then it can be prejudicial to an individual club.
In all things i believe there should be a governing body.
Without it you have chaos.


PaulC
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Re: [Unicorn] THE Rangers FC or Reply Privately

No. The chaos arises when orders are passed down from above which those directly affected are in disagreement with. The SPL clubs have been the ones affected by the actions of Rangers and they should decide whether they want the new club in their ranks. The SFL clubs will be the ones affected if they admit the newco - they should be the ones who make the decisions.


Beano
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Re: [PaulC] THE Rangers FC or Reply Privately


In Reply To
No. The chaos arises when orders are passed down from above which those directly affected are in disagreement with. The SPL clubs have been the ones affected by the actions of Rangers and they should decide whether they want the new club in their ranks. The SFL clubs will be the ones affected if they admit the newco - they should be the ones who make the decisions.


While I think that, within the National League System, the penalties for clubs that are liquidated (ie the newco / reformed club starts at Step 5 or two steps below their previous level, as appropriate) are probably right within their context, I absolutely agree that the clubs should determine the major decisions in a scenario like this. To compare football in England and Scotland is to compare apples with oranges - England has a developed pyramid with automatic promotion / relegation in to and out of the Football League, whereas Scotland, for all kinds of reasons, doesn't.

Leagues should exist to serve their member clubs - not the other way around. The rules as they exist in England give The FA absolute discretion to place an reformed club from the Premier / Football Leagues at an appropriate level so let's not delude ourselves that a Portsmouth would end up in the Wessex League. They wouldn't - where they were placed would surely be dependant on their level at the time of liquidation and I would imagine that should a Premier League club ever be liquidated any newco would find themselves in League 2 / Division 4 at worst thanks to the application of reprieves as currently happens in the NLS.

If the SPL do not vote the Rangers newco in, then a new member club will be elected and this creates a vacancy in the SFL. Presumably, reprieves/promotion will ensure this vacancy only exists at the lowest tier. This would be consistent with the likely outcome in a similar scenario in England.

The Scottish FA does not need Rangers - the Scottish Premier League might, but only as far as the manner in which their TV contract is framed. A more even playing field (in terms of European places, Cup comeptions etc if not the championship itself) might stimulate interest and increase crowds for the 11 clubs who didnt cheat. As I suggested earlier, Rangers working their way back through the divisions might also help the rest of the clubs, even in a small way - 300 away fans would make a big difference at some clubs.

To suggest they should be given special treatment because they are a "big club" makes my blood boil. As someone who has spent two thirds of their life battling for small clubs, I find the idea of parachuting Rangers into the second tier of Scottish football ahead of any number of small clubs who - shock - actually paid their bills offensive.


Unicorn
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Re: [Beano] THE Rangers FC or Reply Privately

OK. We will see what happens in the short term after all the meetings and votes.
Whatever effect all this has in the long term depends on the decisions made.So there is no point in getting the crystal ball out yet.
The next week will be very interesting.


ladderman
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Re: [Unicorn] THE Rangers FC or Reply Privately

There is a system for filling vacancies in the SFL, it's by election with the member clubs having votes.. It's the way it's always been, and until recently it was the same in England. Whether the FA getting involved has been beneficial is highly arguable - the one thing it should've introduced in consistency, and clearly that hasn't happened. Geography still plays a part and they're constantly changing the rules/making exceptions.
The process is in place, let them get on with it. Any why it's going to take another week to refuse admission to AFC Rangers is beyond me.


Unicorn
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Re: [ladderman] THE Rangers FC or Reply Privately

So as it stands the new rangers will have to start in division three if they are lucky.
The majority of their players will leave.
They will be out of Europe for years.
And apart from rangers fans everyone in Scotland seems happy about it.
O well there you go.


ladderman
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Re: [Unicorn] THE Rangers FC or Reply Privately

But they cheated. There has to be a penalty. They'll be in Division Three (if only because there won't be any other genuine candidate at this stage), they'll spend three years outside the SPL and be back in Euopean football (gettung knocked out before September starts) in five years. In 20 years time this'll be a footnote in history..
As for players leaving, could they afford to keep them anyway. They've nicely dodged the tax issue regarding paying players into offshore funds, as well.


Unicorn
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Re: [ladderman] THE Rangers FC or Reply Privately


In Reply To
But they cheated. There has to be a penalty. They'll be in Division Three (if only because there won't be any other genuine candidate at this stage), they'll spend three years outside the SPL and be back in Euopean football (gettung knocked out before September starts) in five years. In 20 years time this'll be a footnote in history..
As for players leaving, could they afford to keep them anyway. They've nicely dodged the tax issue regarding paying players into offshore funds, as well.


I accept that. But look at the bigger picture

Lack of spl credibility. Bad enough with two potential winners. Now just one.
Loss of old firm matches.
Tv money and media interest lost.
Effect on the already ailing Scottish co efficient.
Effect on national team.

If that's the way it's got to be ok.
But why anyone is happy about it I cannot understand.
Scottish football in general will be the loser.


mip
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Re: [Unicorn] THE Rangers FC or Reply Privately


In Reply To
I accept that. But look at the bigger picture

Lack of spl credibility. Bad enough with two potential winners. Now just one.
Loss of old firm matches.
Tv money and media interest lost.
Effect on the already ailing Scottish co efficient.
Effect on national team.

If that's the way it's got to be ok.
But why anyone is happy about it I cannot understand.
Scottish football in general will be the loser.



Rangers and Celtic haven't hidden that they wish to leave the SPL and Scottish football if at all possible. That attitude can't have won them many friends and hasn't done Scottish football any good.

Scottish football needs Celtic and Rangers as engines but Celtic and Rangers also need Scottish football. This episode might (hopefully) make them realise that. In the short term the OF would benefit by garnering as much of the TV money as possible for themselves but in the long run they'd both benefit from a generally stronger SPL. They can't build their teams for a few European games while basically killing off their weekly opponents. It hasn't work.

The Scottish UEFA co-efficient has already hit bottom (http://kassiesa.home.xs4all.nl/...thod4/crank2013.html) with Rangers and Celtic playing their part (or not). I don't think it'll go further down than it is now (which is bad enough, agreed).

I can't see how it should affect the Scottish national team. The Scottish Rangers players will find other SPL clubs to play for. They might have to expect lower wages but obviously the wages they received couldn't be sustained in a legitimate manner.

It's a sad situation all round but hopefully it will serve as a wake up call for those in charge of affairs.


Richard Watts
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Jun 27, 2012, 10:01 AM

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Re: [Unicorn] THE Rangers FC or Reply Privately


In Reply To
I accept that. But look at the bigger picture

Lack of spl credibility. Bad enough with two potential winners. Now just one.
Loss of old firm matches.
Tv money and media interest lost.
Effect on the already ailing Scottish co efficient.
Effect on national team.

If that's the way it's got to be ok.
But why anyone is happy about it I cannot understand.
Scottish football in general will be the loser.

Bigger picture! Credibility! Scottish footb all has already blown its credibility by accommodating such a prominent club without stopping it from creating such an almighty mess.

FFS these ****s cheated by running up an enormous tax debt, then ran away from it by putting the club into liquidation so it will never be paid, and you're happy just to give them a slap on the wrist and let them reform as a new company and carry on as if nothing happened, because they're one of the big two clubs? If the people behind the reconstituted club want to play in the SPL they can bloody well pay off the debts of the old club, which in the case of those owed to the Inland Revenue will effectively have to be subsidised by all of us now.

Mugs like me have spent years dutifully paying our 20% tax on modest earnings while Rangers have been dodging their tax payments and buying footballing success. Only last week we had the revelation that wealthy individuals in the UK have been dodging their income tax via various legal loopholes. At least that was only morally wrong. What Rangers have done is morally and legally wrong.

I fail to see why their demise should be a bad thing for Scottish football. Last time Rangers were shite in the 80's we had the likes of Aberdeen and Dundee United not only winning Scottish championships, but making a big impact in the latter stages of the European competitions too, while Hearts came within a whisker of winning the domestic double. Scottish football never seems to have been quite so interesting since.

Frankly I think it could be a great boost for Scottish football and help lift the overall standard of competition. How it would adversely affect the national team I'm not sure. Many of the best players play in England, many of the regular Rangers first team in recent years seem to be foreign, and any decent Scottish players on their books will be snapped up by other clubs in either Scotland or England.

I'm sure "new" Rangers will find their way into SFL3, if not this year then next, and unless they're totally incompetent (again) they'll have a massive advantage over all their rivals at that level with five figure crowds and being debt free, gaining further momentum as they rise up the league in years to come. It will be amazing if they aren't challenging for Premier League championships again before the end of the decade. They don't need any additional sympathy or assistance on top of that.


Unicorn
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Re: [mip] THE Rangers FC or Reply Privately


In Reply To

In Reply To
I accept that. But look at the bigger picture

Lack of spl credibility. Bad enough with two potential winners. Now just one.
Loss of old firm matches.
Tv money and media interest lost.
Effect on the already ailing Scottish co efficient.
Effect on national team.

If that's the way it's got to be ok.
But why anyone is happy about it I cannot understand.
Scottish football in general will be the loser.



Rangers and Celtic haven't hidden that they wish to leave the SPL and Scottish football if at all possible. That attitude can't have won them many friends and hasn't done Scottish football any good.

Scottish football needs Celtic and Rangers as engines but Celtic and Rangers also need Scottish football. This episode might (hopefully) make them realise that. In the short term the OF would benefit by garnering as much of the TV money as possible for themselves but in the long run they'd both benefit from a generally stronger SPL. They can't build their teams for a few European games while basically killing off their weekly opponents. It hasn't work.

The Scottish UEFA co-efficient has already hit bottom (http://kassiesa.home.xs4all.nl/...thod4/crank2013.html) with Rangers and Celtic playing their part (or not). I don't think it'll go further down than it is now (which is bad enough, agreed).

I can't see how it should affect the Scottish national team. The Scottish Rangers players will find other SPL clubs to play for. They might have to expect lower wages but obviously the wages they received couldn't be sustained in a legitimate manner.

It's a sad situation all round but hopefully it will serve as a wake up call for those in charge of affairs.


Well you may disagree with me but at least you see it as a sad situation.
It seems that a rapid restructuring of the leagues may come from all this. Hopefully.


Last Mohican
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Re: [Richard Watts] THE Rangers FC or Reply Privately

Dont watch if you have no sense of humour or don't like swearing Tongue

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H8x_59EjZOs




------------------------------------------------------------
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stanley
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Jun 27, 2012, 11:05 AM

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Re: [Unicorn] THE Rangers FC or Reply Privately

I don't see Scottish football as the loser for not having a club that has cheated it's way to the title for years. A club that has wanted out of Scotland at every possibility and where sectarianism is one of the core values. The Old Firm have killed Scottish football. I doubt Rangers care too much about the Scottish national team either. Just look at Barry Ferguson and Allan McGregor's behaviour when they were sat in the stand at the Scotland match. The players will find other clubs and if a Scottish player has any ambition then they'll head to England rather than the Old Firm. I wonder what all the glory hunter fans from outside of Glasgow will do without having a team to "support" in the SPL.

I make no apologies for sounding bitter in this post. I have only once seen a club other than the Old Firm finish in the top two (Hearts in 2006). To find out that Rangers achievement were greatly helped by cheating despite the huge advantage they already had over clubs? Also, take a look at some of the average attendances Rangers were getting before David Murray came in.


kimbo_king
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Jun 27, 2012, 11:15 AM

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Re: [PaulC] THE Rangers FC or Reply Privately


In Reply To
I wonder how many of the minnows remember Rangers actions in 1964 when they tried to get rid of Albion Rovers, Berwick Rangers, Stranraer, Brechin and Stenhousemuir.

They circulated the remaining clubs with their plans but didn't include these five on their mailing list.

As a Stranraer committee man said recently “This situation is another of the great ironies that football throws up. We could now determine whether Rangers get into the SFL and what division they come into after they tried to throw us out all those years ago."



Sorry to de-rail but whats the story about this? Tried to google it but can't find much:


In the summer of 1964, Rangers revealed a plan to The Scottish Football League to remove the Warriors from the league, along with four other clubs, on the basis that they were poorest-supported clubs over the previous three seasons.[5] Four years later, Stenhousemuir, along with Albion Rovers, Berwick Rangers, Brechin City and Stranraer, with support from a number of clubs, including Celtic, Hamilton Academical and Airdrieonians, successfully defeated this plan.


(This post was edited by kimbo_king on Jun 27, 2012, 11:16 AM)


Red Adder
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Re: [kimbo_king] THE Rangers FC or Reply Privately

Seems like half of Glasgow think they can do no wrong- newco should be admitted to SPL with a 10 bonus to make up for last year. The rest of Scotland thinks they are arrogant cheating b*****ds (sleights - perceived or otherwise, from 1964 and earlier are being recalled) and should be consigned for ever to the West of Scotland junior 7-a-side league (and if any more of the squad reject the TUPE arrangements then a side of 7 is about all they will manage.).

The real problem for Scotland (as with England and many other European leagues) is that they are overdominated by a very small number of clubs. Footie is a sport and to be competitive, interesting and enjoyable to watch over an extended period a more level playing field is required, whereas most of the significant changes in regulations over the last 30 years have actually concentrated wealth and success. The US franchise system probably has many faults but its draft anfdplayer trading regulations does over time tend towards a greater equality of opportunity for all the teams.


sandhurstbee
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Jun 27, 2012, 1:00 PM

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Re: [Red Adder] THE Rangers FC or Reply Privately

My money is on Celtic to win the league Tongue



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casualobserver
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Re: [Last Mohican] THE Rangers FC or Reply Privately


In Reply To
Dont watch if you have no sense of humour or don't like swearing Tongue

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H8x_59EjZOs


Top notch! Laugh


ladderman
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Re: [kimbo_king] THE Rangers FC or Reply Privately


In Reply To
Sorry to de-rail but whats the story about this? Tried to google it but can't find much:


In the summer of 1964, Rangers revealed a plan to The Scottish Football League to remove the Warriors from the league, along with four other clubs, on the basis that they were poorest-supported clubs over the previous three seasons.[5] Four years later, Stenhousemuir, along with Albion Rovers, Berwick Rangers, Brechin City and Stranraer, with support from a number of clubs, including Celtic, Hamilton Academical and Airdrieonians, successfully defeated this plan.


This is all irrelevant (as was the suggestion that Airdrie finishing off Clydebank becaue of something a former owner had tried to do, also in 1964, was okay). They need to concentrate on the present In many ways it sums up Scottish football: living in the past.

As for

Quote

Seems like half of Glasgow think they can do no wrong


I doubt the situation would've been any different if it had been Celtic rather than Rangers.


cope1
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Re: [stanley] THE Rangers FC or Reply Privately

I'll second that. I don't actually think this IS a sad situation - I think the sad situation came about many years ago. This might just be a watershed whereby a few things can be sorted out.

I think it will be damaging to Scottish football to allow Rangers into the SPL and perhaps even into SFL1. They have no beneficial impact on the national team and things like UEFA co-efficient and TV contracts are suspended, falsely high, to the detriment of almost all the clubs except the Old Firm.

The idea that Scottish football needs Rangers at the top is short-sighted. What it needs is to be able to regroup and grow in a more even way. It is, realistically, at a much lower level than many people expect it to be. It is not really a league which should expect its teams to be regularly qualifying for the Champions League group stages.

The idea that it is important to maintain the co-efficient by allowing Rangers to maintain their SPL status is much akin to Gretna punching above their weight on nothing but Brookson's money. It's all built on thin air and there is no foundation.

Scottish football needs to look after its own health first and allow the UEFA co-efficient to reflect its true strength. It should give up on all its clubs just to maintain 2 at the top tasked with keeping up appearances.


Hangabout
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Re: [Ray AFCW] THE Rangers FC or Reply Privately

Wasn't there some talk, several years ago, about a club from Ireland joining the SPL?

Maybe now could be the time....


T P Johnson
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Re: [Hangabout] THE Rangers FC or Reply Privately

Glad to see the Welsh clubs TNS and Bangor City start the Eyuropean season with a higher coefficient than St Johnstone


Tim Johnson


Leyther_Matt
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Re: [Hangabout] THE Rangers FC or Reply Privately


In Reply To
Wasn't there some talk, several years ago, about a club from Ireland joining the SPL?

Maybe now could be the time....

Some might say that Ireland and Northern Ireland have both had clubs in the SPL for many years...


Hangabout
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Re: [Leyther_Matt] THE Rangers FC or Reply Privately

lol, Fair point. And what would some say to a Catholic team replacing Rangers!


Mr. T
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Re: [ladderman] THE Rangers FC or Reply Privately


In Reply To

In Reply To
Sorry to de-rail but whats the story about this? Tried to google it but can't find much:

In the summer of 1964, Rangers revealed a plan to The Scottish Football League to remove the Warriors from the league, along with four other clubs, on the basis that they were poorest-supported clubs over the previous three seasons.[5] Four years later, Stenhousemuir, along with Albion Rovers, Berwick Rangers, Brechin City and Stranraer, with support from a number of clubs, including Celtic, Hamilton Academical and Airdrieonians, successfully defeated this plan.


This is all irrelevant (as was the suggestion that Airdrie finishing off Clydebank because of something a former owner had tried to do, also in 1964, was okay). They need to concentrate on the present. In many ways it sums up Scottish football: living in the past.


I don't think it's a case of living in the past. The purpose of the reference was to draw attention to an attitude that is, arguably, persistent, namely that Rangers have for decades regarded themselves as being too important to have anything to with the little people.


buncranaboy
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Re: [Hangabout] THE Rangers FC or Reply Privately


In Reply To
lol, Fair point. And what would some say to a Catholic team replacing Rangers!



What's a Catholic team?


UKPunk
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Re: [buncranaboy] THE Rangers FC or Reply Privately


In Reply To

In Reply To
lol, Fair point. And what would some say to a Catholic team replacing Rangers!

What's a Catholic team?

Catholic United, Essex Olympian League? Not exactly in their footprint though is it? Tongue



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PaulC
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Re: [Hangabout] THE Rangers FC or Reply Privately


In Reply To
Wasn't there some talk, several years ago, about a club from Ireland joining the SPL?

Maybe now could be the time....


Clydebank considered moving to Dublin ... and Carlisle ...and ....


Unicorn
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Re: [UKPunk] THE Rangers FC or Reply Privately


In Reply To

In Reply To

In Reply To
lol, Fair point. And what would some say to a Catholic team replacing Rangers!

What's a Catholic team?

Catholic United, Essex Olympian League? Not exactly in their footprint though is it? Tongue


No but it answers the question.
We have for many years in this area had a junior club playing at many age groups called Our Lady Youth.
I think thats a catholic club as well.Not sure of course.


garethwrexy
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Re: [Unicorn] THE Rangers FC or Reply Privately

no need to bring in religion !



wrexham fc fa trophy winners 2013 !


Unicorn
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Re: [garethwrexy] THE Rangers FC or Reply Privately


In Reply To
no need to bring in religion !


I did not bring it in. That was someone else. Read the thread first before commenting.
I just answered a rather obvious question in an obvious way.


UKPunk
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Re: [garethwrexy] THE Rangers FC or Reply Privately


In Reply To
no need to bring in religion !

You're right Gareth, but why spoil the fun? Cool



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PaulC
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Re: [UKPunk] THE Rangers FC or Reply Privately

5,000-10,000 fans reported to be protesting outside Ibrox tonight, demanding answers from Charles Green.

Some funny business going on with the transfer of Ibrox and Murray Park to another Sevco
http://news.stv.tv/...f-to-separate-newco/


wishmaster3211
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Re: [UKPunk] THE Rangers FC or Reply Privately

The first winners of the Northern League - Darlington St Augustines!



"Run For the Hills Before They Burn"

Checkout my Facebook page "Proper Football Grounds"

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paulh66
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Re: [buncranaboy] THE Rangers FC or Reply Privately

What's a Catholic team?


Here's one: http://en.wikipedia.org/...tional_football_team. Once managed by a certain Signor Trapattoni too.. Wink


chienmort
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Jun 28, 2012, 12:16 AM

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Re: [wishmaster3211] THE Rangers FC or Reply Privately


In Reply To
The first winners of the Northern League - Darlington St Augustines!

let me guessing 1883?



Poole Town FC - les couilles du chien


ColtheJock
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Re: [chienmort] THE Rangers FC or Reply Privately

The Ranger's saga just keeps rumbling on, I see now that ex-player John Brown want's to head a group to buy the club from Green and find out who holds the title deeds to Murray Park and Ibrox, claims he has plenty of backers from all over the world. Now I remember Bomber Brown as he played for Hamilton when I watched them when a youngster. A great attacking full back but obviously lost his brain. As for the religious stuff on here, I grew up in an area where whether you were prodestant or catholic could lead to a good kicking, the wrong views are entrenched from a young age and it seems in places like Glasgow and surrounding areas and Northern Ireland it will take generations to eradicate it if ever.

Colin.

www.thamesmeadtownfc.co.uk



Colin M


wishmaster3211
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Jun 28, 2012, 8:13 AM

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Re: [chienmort] THE Rangers FC or Reply Privately


In Reply To

In Reply To
The first winners of the Northern League - Darlington St Augustines!

let me guessing 1883?


Not the same team. The original Darlington were known as Forge Albion.



"Run For the Hills Before They Burn"

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Richard Rundle
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Jun 28, 2012, 10:43 AM

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Re: [cope1] THE Rangers FC or Reply Privately


In Reply To
The idea that it is important to maintain the co-efficient by allowing Rangers to maintain their SPL status is much akin to Gretna punching above their weight on nothing but Brookson's money. It's all built on thin air and there is no foundation.


Pedant alert - it was Brooks Mileson, not "Brookson"


cope1
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Jun 28, 2012, 11:06 AM

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Re: [Richard Rundle] THE Rangers FC or Reply Privately


In Reply To

In Reply To
The idea that it is important to maintain the co-efficient by allowing Rangers to maintain their SPL status is much akin to Gretna punching above their weight on nothing but Brookson's money. It's all built on thin air and there is no foundation.


Pedant alert - it was Brooks Mileson, not "Brookson"

Pedantry welcomed - apologies for the error!


MarkInGorleston
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Jun 28, 2012, 12:06 PM

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Re: [cope1] THE Rangers FC or Reply Privately

Lets hope that the Scottish FA do the right thing. They and the Premier clubs vote and put Rangers in the 3rd Division. Anything else is just wrong and underhand. One rule for all.



I would laugh my head off if AFCW went down along with ColUwe and We**ham.


ChrisLUFC
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Jun 28, 2012, 12:13 PM

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Re: [Witham Mark] THE Rangers FC or Reply Privately

According to the BBC article below, it's looking like Division One for the newco.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/.../0/football/18625293


cope1
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Jun 28, 2012, 12:45 PM

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Re: [Witham Mark] THE Rangers FC or Reply Privately


In Reply To
Lets hope that the Scottish FA do the right thing. They and the Premier clubs vote and put Rangers in the 3rd Division. Anything else is just wrong and underhand. One rule for all.

Do the Scottish FA have any say? Surely it's down to the SPL and the SFL.


Unicorn
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Jun 28, 2012, 12:50 PM

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Re: [cope1] THE Rangers FC or Reply Privately


In Reply To

In Reply To
Lets hope that the Scottish FA do the right thing. They and the Premier clubs vote and put Rangers in the 3rd Division. Anything else is just wrong and underhand. One rule for all.

Do the Scottish FA have any say? Surely it's down to the SPL and the SFL.


Well it appears that they are trying to broker an agreement.
I always believed they would.


Part-Timer
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Re: [ChrisLUFC] THE Rangers FC or Reply Privately

Whilst I would be appalled if Rangers were to find themselves any higher than Division Three there is some good news here. Firstly

"Rangers newco's acceptance into the Scottish FA would only be approved if they accept responsibility for the football debts and fines incurred by the pervious club along with their waiving of rights to a legal challenge."

Secondly there are plans for a proper pyramid.


cope1
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Jun 28, 2012, 1:02 PM

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Re: [Part-Timer] THE Rangers FC or Reply Privately

Agreed, although I can't see the connection between Rangers and the pyramid setup.


cope1
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Jun 28, 2012, 1:04 PM

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Re: [Unicorn] THE Rangers FC or Reply Privately


In Reply To

In Reply To

In Reply To
Lets hope that the Scottish FA do the right thing. They and the Premier clubs vote and put Rangers in the 3rd Division. Anything else is just wrong and underhand. One rule for all.

Do the Scottish FA have any say? Surely it's down to the SPL and the SFL.


Well it appears that they are trying to broker an agreement.
I always believed they would.

But if the SPL are voting and then the SFL will vote on where to put them what's the SFA's role? They're not trying to influence the voting I take it?


MarkInGorleston
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Jun 28, 2012, 1:06 PM

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Re: [cope1] THE Rangers FC or Reply Privately

Easy if they want the status of premier then they should not just walk away from their debrs and start again. Sounds good to me.



I would laugh my head off if AFCW went down along with ColUwe and We**ham.


charlieToogood
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Jun 28, 2012, 1:08 PM

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Re: [ChrisLUFC] THE Rangers FC or Reply Privately

We all love our pie-in-the-sky ideas, so I'll just throw this out there (knowing it'll never happen).

Now, we know the Scots like their 10 (or 12) team-divisions. It keeps clubs competing alongside more similar-sized clubs (no Cowdenbeath alongside the Old Firm, for example), and lets them keep the top-flight TV money among fewer clubs. They're not going to abandon that any time soon. But the daft result is that they end up with clubs playing each other four times a season (or three).

Every year they bring up the proposal of winter breaks, or switching to summer football. So why not switch to having two football seasons each year? You can have a spring season running from February to May, and an autumn season from August to November. You'd have proper round-robin seasons with each team playing everyone home & away. There's twice the opportunity for success; relegation is less of a blow as you're only 6 months away from a possible return. If it became implemented now then it'd answer two of the big issues about Rangers right now - they'd have to start again from the bottom, but then they'd likely be back in the top flight in 18 months.

You've got similar problems in Ireland and Wales with wanting to have an elite top-flight but don't have enough clubs. Something like this would be right up their street.


Part-Timer
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Jun 28, 2012, 1:08 PM

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Re: [cope1] THE Rangers FC or Reply Privately


In Reply To
Agreed, although I can't see the connection between Rangers and the pyramid setup.


Maybe if they won't accept responsibilty for the oldco's footballing debts they are going to refuse them entry to the existing league, create a bigger pyramid and make them start even lower.Tongue


Unicorn
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Re: [cope1] THE Rangers FC or Reply Privately


In Reply To

In Reply To

In Reply To

In Reply To
Lets hope that the Scottish FA do the right thing. They and the Premier clubs vote and put Rangers in the 3rd Division. Anything else is just wrong and underhand. One rule for all.

Do the Scottish FA have any say? Surely it's down to the SPL and the SFL.


Well it appears that they are trying to broker an agreement.
I always believed they would.

But if the SPL are voting and then the SFL will vote on where to put them what's the SFA's role? They're not trying to influence the voting I take it?


Of course they are.
Thats what happens when you broker a deal.
They will discuss with both leagues and the clubs. They will offer incentives and propose some restructure and try to get a consensus.


Mister TwoU
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Jun 28, 2012, 1:14 PM

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Re: [cope1] THE Rangers FC or Reply Privately

  SCOTS PROPOSE BOLD SPL CHANGES TO FOLLOW BELGIAN BLUEPRINT
Thursday June 28,2012 By David Ewart (Scottish Sunday Express)

SCOTTISH football’s dramatic league reconstruction could see the top flight follow the complex Belgian model.
Express Sport understands the 16-team Belgian Pro League could be used as the blueprint for the top tier of the Scottish game.

The SFA has been involved in discussions with the SPL and SFL chief David Longmuir over restructuring the game along with a potential merger of the league bodies in the wake of the Rangers crisis.

One option on the table is believed to be a version of the complicated Belgian top flight.

The Belgian top tier consists of 16 teams, who face each other home and away before entering into play-off one, play-off two and relegation play-offs.

The top six team would contest play-off one, where they compete for the championship and European places.

The clubs from seventh to 14 would split into two groups of four, where the group winners would battle it out a Europa League play-off.

While the bottom two clubs will be involved in a relegation play-off, facing each other five times.

If a version of this was brought into Scotland it would be for the start of the 2013/14 season.

Another option understood to being discussed by league power-brokers is three leagues of 14-teams and that would be introduced for the start of this season.

It is understood that option would see Dunfermline, Dundee and Falkirk promoted for the top flight for the forthcoming campaign, while crisis club Rangers would begin life in the second tier of the Scottish game.



Professional cretin.


MarkInGorleston
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Jun 28, 2012, 1:18 PM

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Re: [charlieToogood] THE Rangers FC or Reply Privately

Edit re Charlie suggestion.

As daft as it sounds i like it, the Scottish league not playing each other 4 times a year and the league being dead too early in the top flight, means less time till you can rebuild again.

The only floor could be european cups, yes i know they go out before November, but incase they dont they might want regular football to see them through the close down. I guess you can get round qualifications of europe by splitting it equal in to the team that wins in first half year Celtic and to the team that wins 2nd half year Celtic.Cool

In all seriousness, like it, get fans back in the door.



I would laugh my head off if AFCW went down along with ColUwe and We**ham.

(This post was edited by Witham Mark on Jun 28, 2012, 1:22 PM)


Sarumio
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Jun 28, 2012, 1:24 PM

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Re: [Mister TwoU] THE Rangers FC or Reply Privately


In Reply To
SCOTS PROPOSE BOLD SPL CHANGES TO FOLLOW BELGIAN BLUEPRINT
Thursday June 28,2012 By David Ewart (Scottish Sunday Express)

SCOTTISH football’s dramatic league reconstruction could see the top flight follow the complex Belgian model.
Express Sport understands the 16-team Belgian Pro League could be used as the blueprint for the top tier of the Scottish game.

The SFA has been involved in discussions with the SPL and SFL chief David Longmuir over restructuring the game along with a potential merger of the league bodies in the wake of the Rangers crisis.

One option on the table is believed to be a version of the complicated Belgian top flight.

The Belgian top tier consists of 16 teams, who face each other home and away before entering into play-off one, play-off two and relegation play-offs.

The top six team would contest play-off one, where they compete for the championship and European places.

The clubs from seventh to 14 would split into two groups of four, where the group winners would battle it out a Europa League play-off.

While the bottom two clubs will be involved in a relegation play-off, facing each other five times.

If a version of this was brought into Scotland it would be for the start of the 2013/14 season.

Another option understood to being discussed by league power-brokers is three leagues of 14-teams and that would be introduced for the start of this season.

It is understood that option would see Dunfermline, Dundee and Falkirk promoted for the top flight for the forthcoming campaign, while crisis club Rangers would begin life in the second tier of the Scottish game.


Well that is all nonsense! Ridiculous ideas and personally I think the Belgians have gone mad. Overcomplicating football is not in anyone's interest - it should be entertaining enough without all these hair-brain schemes that result in so many possible outcomes it would be a supporters nightmare to predict what the end product their season with actually bring them! They already have playoffs - thats the extent of 'excitement' that is needed in my opinion.

Keep it simple - merge the SPL and SFL - and have 3 divisions of 16 (bringing in 6 clubs from currently outside the SFL), play each other twice and have divisional cups to replace lost games/revenue! Then have 3 leagues below the bottom division (the Highland League, The East of Scotland League, and the South of Scotland League). Make the 3 bottom clubs relegated - replaced by one from each of the 3 feeders mentioned.

Haven't thought about until now - but something along those lines would be my personal preferance over the hideous Belgian model!


leohoenig
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Jun 28, 2012, 2:00 PM

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Re: [Sarumio] THE Rangers FC or Reply Privately

Despite the fact it keeps clubs in contention for a long period of time, the Belgium system (which has run for two years now) is not popular in Belgium. It would not surprise me if the Belgiums change it before the Scots can take it up!

Because the top six take half points with them, whereas teams 7-14 (and 15-16) start afresh, clubs have more chance of reaching Europe from 7th place than from 6th.



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Oxford Stone
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Re: [leohoenig] THE Rangers FC or Reply Privately


In Reply To
Despite the fact it keeps clubs in contention for a long period of time, the Belgium system (which has run for two years now) is not popular in Belgium. It would not surprise me if the Belgiums change it before the Scots can take it up!

Because the top six take half points with them, whereas teams 7-14 (and 15-16) start afresh, clubs have more chance of reaching Europe from 7th place than from 6th.



... and just as much chance from 14th, if I understand correctly? "C'est bien belge, ça"...


wishmaster3211
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Jun 28, 2012, 2:17 PM

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Re: [Mister TwoU] THE Rangers FC or Reply Privately


In Reply To

While the bottom two clubs will be involved in a relegation play-off, facing each other five times.

.


They play each other HOW many times?

Jesus wept what buffoon thought that one up? I cant imagine why anyone would want to watch those games. If i lived in Scotland I wouldn't be watching any game after the split in the SPL as those games are meaningless unless you are in the old firm.

The SFL playoffs are on the other hand a pretty fair way of sorting out promotion and relagation.

A sort of "conference" between 2nd and 3rd top and 2nd and 3rd bottom of the next rung at the end of the season would be a good idea though.

Anyway it does seem some fudge is on the cards with Team 12 suffering at worst a one division demotion, still pretty unacceptable in my view. The SFL need to be very careful here as it also seems that the new owners of Team 12 haven't really done their sums and paperwork, seem to trying to ride roughshod over various legal issues etc. Are they even sure what they are admitting into the SFL? Is Team 12 even a functioning entity cos I don't think it is from what I have read!



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leohoenig
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Jun 28, 2012, 2:29 PM

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Re: [wishmaster3211] THE Rangers FC or Reply Privately


In Reply To

In Reply To

While the bottom two clubs will be involved in a relegation play-off, facing each other five times.

.


They play each other HOW many times?

Jesus wept what buffoon thought that one up? I cant imagine why anyone would want to watch those games. If i lived in Scotland I wouldn't be watching any game after the split in the SPL as those games are meaningless unless you are in the old firm.

According to Soccerway, the games between Westerlo and St. Truiden were watched by 4500 and 6000 at Westerlo, 7000 and 7386 at St. Truiden. The league match at St Truiden attracted 7500, while last September 5000 watched the pair play at Westerlo Game 5 was not played, as Westerlo was three games to one up.



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wishmaster3211
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Jun 28, 2012, 2:39 PM

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Re: [leohoenig] THE Rangers FC or Reply Privately

I still cant imagine why! Endlessly playing the next worst team? When i followed teams regularly , at the end od the season it was games against the top teams plus local derbies that made you want to go. I deplore all this tinkering. Even within league playoffs are a bit of a joke the sfl system is better.



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cope1
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Jun 28, 2012, 2:52 PM

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Re: [wishmaster3211] THE Rangers FC or Reply Privately

In my view there are three options:

1. 18 teams playing h/a games (34 games) without any split.

2. 10 teams playing each other h/a twice (36 games) without any split.

3. 12/14/16 teams playing each other h/a followed by a split (? games in total depends on the format).

No. 1 is a no go as there are not 18 teams worth putting in the top flight. You'd end up with divisions within a division and top teams playing too many easy games.

No. 2 is what we've had before and worked fine except that the idea of playing each other 4 times is, apparently, not popular.

No. 3 is what is being suggested and in the correct format is what I'd prefer. I don't like the current system as it does nothing for those teams who just miss out at the split. I think the Belgian is over the top. I wouldn't mind something more like the Belgian Second Division system which uses three periods with the winners entering promotion play-offs. You could reduce it to a South American style Opening and Closing phase format perhaps.

And before anyone comes back and tells me what a load of unnecessary nonsense these different systems are, just because England and other major European countries have had basic double round-robin systems for years doesn't mean they're right model for everyone.


wishmaster3211
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Jun 28, 2012, 3:43 PM

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Re: [cope1] THE Rangers FC or Reply Privately

Broadly I agree with you, certainly 14 team Divisions are more attractive for spectators. Splits probably aren't, but something like that is the easiest solution for TV. Ironically of course whats happened with Team 12 has cast doubt over that. Plus Hibs perennial underachievement doesn't exactly guarantee that many Edinburgh Derbies for them either!!

Id like them to go to 2*18 but it wont happen. Although I am sure I read somewhere that FIFA had a thing about a minimum league size of 18 that it wanted to bring in?



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(This post was edited by wishmaster3211 on Jun 28, 2012, 3:46 PM)


ladderman
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Jun 28, 2012, 4:11 PM

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Re: [wishmaster3211] THE Rangers FC or Reply Privately

I'm pleased that the SPL sides have made a stand against Rangers, though I'm far from shocked a deal has been brokered to ensure they only drop a division. There's some good ideas in the plan outlined, but I do find it incredible that - a month before the season starts - they're talking about a full restructure.


wishmaster3211
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Jun 28, 2012, 4:26 PM

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Re: [ladderman] THE Rangers FC or Reply Privately

I wouldnt read too much into what Sky say. The Spl cant tell the sfl where to put them it still has to be voted on. I understand they are going to set out various restructure / team 12 options to member clubs. I do think it will be a fudge though.



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garethwrexy
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Jun 28, 2012, 4:27 PM

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Re: [wishmaster3211] THE Rangers FC or Reply Privately

wonder how the english fa would deal with manchester united if the same thing happend to them !



wrexham fc fa trophy winners 2013 !


Mister TwoU
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Jun 28, 2012, 4:30 PM

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Re: [cope1] THE Rangers FC or Reply Privately

It seems to me that what the SFA want, is to protect the four OF derbies and yet provide a format allowing more different smaller teams the opportunity to enjoy a season or two in the SPL limelight.

Personally, I feel a reorganisation into three leagues of fourteen teams would perfectly fit the bill, but with the proviso that the two lower divisions should be of equal standing, perhaps divided into say, Division 1 (North & West) and Division 1 (South & East).

Each would play a simple 26-game round-robin and then split into a top-6 group and a bottom-8 group, each grouping then playing their own new mini-round-robin of either 10 pr 14 more matches. All teams would play either 36 or 40 games per season. There IS a good argument for doing it 'the other way around' in the Premier, however (Top-8 & bottom-6 instead) as this would clear early playing-dates for play-offs between Premier and First Division teams; would help ensure OF participation in the top section; would increase number of teams being guaranteed 3rd. & 4th. seasonal OF match-ups; would eliminate/reduce need for a 'prize' (say, a play-off place for Europa League) for the bottom section.

Points accrued in the first stage should either be added-on to the second-stage points totals -or- be entirely discounted altogether. NEVER, NEVER, NEVER should there be any other choice made in this matter! lol.

Presuming we have a Premier bottom-6 and two Division One top-6es, promotion and relegation would be automatically two-down and 2x 1-up, leaving 2 play-out places in the Premier and 3 play-off places in each First Division. Those having finished 1st. & 2nd. in the Premier bottom-6 will have 'earned' their safety from relegation/play-outs. Likewise the four teams finishing 5th. & 6th. in the Division One top-6es will have failed to reach promotion/play-offs.

There would be four weeks available within which to hold the play-off/play-outs (the difference between playing ten and fourteen matches in the second phase), so the promotion/relegation sub-tournament ought to be planned to make fullest use of this.

I'd suggest two mini-conferences of four teams, playing a 6 game round-robin in weeks 1 to 3. Followed by two winner-take-all 'Finals' in week 4 between each first-finisher and 2nd.-finisher from the opposite conference.

The main question arising here, is 'which would be the most reasonable method of choosing which teams fall into whichever conference?'. Should the two play-out participants be separated at all costs? Should the conferences be purely regional, ignoring whether participants are play-off or play-out teams? Should the conferences be mostly regional, preserving the togetherness of play-off teams from same Division One, and placing play-out teams separately on a 'least-worst-fit' basis? Should it just be a random draw? Should there be any 'handicapping' introduced (in one or two countries* where they have four-team round-robins teams get pre-handicapped with either 3, 2, 1 or zero points.).

* I CANNOT remember which, but I viewed this arrangement within the last 12-months or so, honest injun! lol.

The only other thing I might think could improve things a little, would be somehow increasing the Premier to 16 teams to 'protect' a few more smaller teams from a possible four-relegation-place scenario, which is admittedly large, even for a 16-team set-up. It would have to then be split top-6/mid-4/bottom-6 for respectively (10)/(6or12)/(10) extra games over the first 30-match round-robin.
The new mid-4 section might operate simply to qualify its winner for a Europa League (play-off) chance.

The two regional divisions would then have the proposed Highland and Lowland Super-Leagues as feeder competitions, as presently planned by the SFA, but there'd obviously then need to be two separate play-offs to settle promotion and relegation issues. hopefully in later years this relationship would develop in the same way as has our Conference - gradually opening the door to the bottom end of the SFL a little wider as time progresses.



Professional cretin.


Fanatic
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Jun 28, 2012, 4:44 PM

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Re: [cope1] THE Rangers FC or Reply Privately


In Reply To
In my view there are three options:

1. 18 teams playing h/a games (34 games) without any split.

...

No. 1 is a no go as there are not 18 teams worth putting in the top flight.


I would disagree with that - alongside the 12 SPL clubs from last season, there are also a further six who have played in the SPL- Falkirk, Dundee, Hamilton, Livingston, Partick and Raith, as well as Ross County who will play in the SPL next season.

If you also take into account Airdrie, Ayr, Morton and Queen of the South, I think there are more than enough middle-sized clubs to full up an enlarged SPL.


wishmaster3211
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Re: [Fanatic] THE Rangers FC or Reply Privately

Agreed. I think theres more than enough teams that could step up. there would be three tiers but i think it woukd make for a much more competitive middle tier in the league and reduce the relevance of losing games to the top clubs.



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blackdouglas
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Jun 28, 2012, 4:57 PM

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Re: [Fanatic] THE Rangers FC or Reply Privately


In Reply To

In Reply To
In my view there are three options:

1. 18 teams playing h/a games (34 games) without any split.

...

No. 1 is a no go as there are not 18 teams worth putting in the top flight.


I would disagree with that - alongside the 12 SPL clubs from last season, there are also a further six who have played in the SPL- Falkirk, Dundee, Hamilton, Livingston, Partick and Raith, as well as Ross County who will play in the SPL next season.

If you also take into account Airdrie, Ayr, Morton and Queen of the South, I think there are more than enough middle-sized clubs to full up an enlarged SPL.


I wouldn't have counted Queen of the South in that list. Apparently they were bricking themselves at what it would have cost to bring Palmerston up to minimum SPL standards had they won promotion last summer, and rumour has it when they finally couldn't win it the sigh of relief could be heard on the Isle of Man. What little money they did have has run out hence the bargain basement finish this term.



Northwood, Threave Rovers, Arsenal, Rangers (the real ones, NOT qpr),Watford, Rochdale, queen of the south and a few others.


Unicorn
Chelsea Transfer Target

Jun 28, 2012, 4:58 PM

Posts: 3889
Location: Canterbury
Team(s): Arsenal and South Eastern Football


Views: 15558
Re: [garethwrexy] THE Rangers FC or Reply Privately


In Reply To
wonder how the english fa would deal with manchester united if the same thing happend to them !


Exactly the same. They would be protected as much as would be humanly possible.
People can be idealists on forums but in the real world ???
No.


wishmaster3211
First Team Star


Jun 28, 2012, 5:00 PM

Posts: 2481
Location: A small town in Monmouthshire
Team(s): Calne Town, Darlington, Rosenborg, Sussex CCC, Huddersfield RL


Views: 15557
Re: [garethwrexy] THE Rangers FC or Reply Privately


In Reply To
wonder how the english fa would deal with manchester united if the same thing happend to them !


Thats the point of this thread! In theory an English Team 12 wouldnt be kicking a ball next season. Like we believe that. But they are a newco and have missed entry deadlines for all Comps just like Rushden.



"Run For the Hills Before They Burn"

Checkout my Facebook page "Proper Football Grounds"

facebook.com/paul.fergusson


Unicorn
Chelsea Transfer Target

Jun 28, 2012, 5:06 PM

Posts: 3889
Location: Canterbury
Team(s): Arsenal and South Eastern Football


Views: 15555
Re: [wishmaster3211] THE Rangers FC or Reply Privately


In Reply To
I wouldnt read too much into what Sky say. The Spl cant tell the sfl where to put them it still has to be voted on. I understand they are going to set out various restructure / team 12 options to member clubs. I do think it will be a fudge though.


The SPL are not telling the SFL to do anything.
The SFA are trying to get a consensus agreed upon.
I obviously don't know but i would not be to shocked if the SFA just put forward one package to be voted on by all clubs which included Rangers in Division one.


(This post was edited by Unicorn on Jun 28, 2012, 5:09 PM)


Mister TwoU
First Team Star


Jun 28, 2012, 5:16 PM

Posts: 2497
Location: Back in hilly Malvern.
Team(s): Malvern Town FC


Views: 15544
Re: [Unicorn] THE Rangers FC or Reply Privately


In Reply To

In Reply To
I wouldnt read too much into what Sky say. The Spl cant tell the sfl where to put them it still has to be voted on. I understand they are going to set out various restructure / team 12 options to member clubs. I do think it will be a fudge though.


The SPL are not telling the SFL to do anything.
The SFA are trying to get a consensus agreed upon.
I obviously don't know but i would not be to shocked if the SFA just put forward one package to be voted on by all clubs which included Rangers in Division one.



If that were to be so, then a 'no'-vote requiring just 8 nay-sayers would render 'Club12' leagueless for 20-12-13. Already, I'm aware that Dundee, Falkirk, Morton and Peterhead have indicated negativity toward that idea, and I've not been 'with-it' news-wise really for much of the last 36 hours. I don't think 'the yeses' will take the day by a very long shot.



Professional cretin.


Unicorn
Chelsea Transfer Target

Jun 28, 2012, 5:20 PM

Posts: 3889
Location: Canterbury
Team(s): Arsenal and South Eastern Football


Views: 15536
Re: [Mister TwoU] THE Rangers FC or Reply Privately


In Reply To

In Reply To

In Reply To
I wouldnt read too much into what Sky say. The Spl cant tell the sfl where to put them it still has to be voted on. I understand they are going to set out various restructure / team 12 options to member clubs. I do think it will be a fudge though.


The SPL are not telling the SFL to do anything.
The SFA are trying to get a consensus agreed upon.
I obviously don't know but i would not be to shocked if the SFA just put forward one package to be voted on by all clubs which included Rangers in Division one.



If that were to be so, then a 'no'-vote requiring just 8 nay-sayers would render 'Club12' leagueless for 20-12-13. Already, I'm aware that Dundee, Falkirk, Morton and Peterhead have indicated negativity toward that idea, and I've not been 'with-it' news-wise really for much of the last 36 hours. I don't think 'the yeses' will take the day by a very long shot.


No i am talking about a scenario where both the other votes are cancelled and all Scottish clubs in the SPL and SFL just vote on the package put to them by the SFA which would include Rangers in the First Division.


(This post was edited by Unicorn on Jun 28, 2012, 5:21 PM)


garethwrexy
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Jun 28, 2012, 5:57 PM

Posts: 9305
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Team(s): wrexham and dulwich


Views: 15507
Re: [Unicorn] THE Rangers FC or Reply Privately

sky would want manchester united at least in championship if they every went pop !



wrexham fc fa trophy winners 2013 !


wishmaster3211
First Team Star


Jun 28, 2012, 6:24 PM

Posts: 2481
Location: A small town in Monmouthshire
Team(s): Calne Town, Darlington, Rosenborg, Sussex CCC, Huddersfield RL


Views: 15495
Re: [garethwrexy] THE Rangers FC or Reply Privately

Anyone who thinks the lack of a proper set of rules for what happens in the Team 12 situation is a good thing, shouldn't look at the STV site I just looked at.

Sorry but I am hopeless with links, but to summarise:

The SFL Clubs don't seem to want the money from playing Team 12 and don't seem to care about the precedents or anything. They would seemingly refuse entry to them and some statements imply they would rather they stayed in the SPL!

They seem to think they are "Relegating" a Club, when in reality they are surely admitting (or not) a New one!

So the fudge has begun they are pretending that its still "Rangers".

Absolutely opposite situation to how the FA treated Darlington for example.

I cant make this work, but this link is even more worrying, with the Chairman of the SPL making threats to the SFL if they dont play ball! Remember the defunct "Rangers" still have a place on the SPL board!

http://sport.stv.tv/football/clubs/rangers/108457-spl-threaten-breakaway-league-if-sfl-clubs-do-not-agree-to-rangers-plans/


"Run For the Hills Before They Burn"

Checkout my Facebook page "Proper Football Grounds"

facebook.com/paul.fergusson


DavetheGlassboy
Chelsea Transfer Target

Jun 28, 2012, 7:09 PM

Posts: 4520
Location: Oldbury, West Midlands
Team(s): Stourbridge FC, Warrington RLFC, Stourport HC


Views: 15460
Re: [ColtheJock] THE Rangers FC or Reply Privately


In Reply To
The Ranger's saga just keeps rumbling on,


I blame Yogi Bear!

Tongue



Last new ground (846): Vasil Levski Stadium, Sofia - Bulgaria v England 14/10/19
Last game: Stourbridge v Whitby 21/10/19
Football seen in: England, Wales, Scotland, Italy, France, Germany, Denmark, Netherlands, Spain, Austria, Croatia, Jersey, Sweden, Switzerland, Republic of Ireland, United States of America, Ukraine, Montenegro, Estonia, San Marino, Slovenia, Northern Ireland, Malta, Lithuania, Russia, Belgium, Portugal, Czech Republic, Bulgaria


stanley
Junior Team Sub

Jun 28, 2012, 7:31 PM

Posts: 14
Location: Edinburgh
Team(s): Heart of Midlothian & Slough Town


Views: 15436
Re: [wishmaster3211] THE Rangers FC or Reply Privately

Assuming that document is genuine (and it probably is) then this is the angriest I've felt during all of this. I haven't missed a home Hearts game for years and if it wasn't for the blind loyalty that fans show to their clubs then I'd walk away. I don't think I'd be able to stop going but it's an absolute joke that everything is being done to try and let Rangers get into the SPL or First Division/SPL2. It's one thing to support a team in the knowledge that there's very little chance of a non-Old Firm club ever winning the league again but to actually be told that Scottish football only exists because of the Old Firm is incredible.


acmold
Man City Transfer Target!

Jun 28, 2012, 7:35 PM

Posts: 14497
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Views: 16526
Re: [stanley] THE Rangers FC or

http://sport.stv.tv/...ee-to-rangers-plans/


wishmaster3211
First Team Star


Jun 28, 2012, 7:50 PM

Posts: 2481
Location: A small town in Monmouthshire
Team(s): Calne Town, Darlington, Rosenborg, Sussex CCC, Huddersfield RL


Views: 16508
Re: [stanley] THE Rangers FC or Reply Privately

I agree i find some of the article unbelievable. Yet credible!

Be assured ANY other club and that includes those you and I support would almost certainly be bumped to D3 if they went under. FIFA need to take a long hard look at the sfl if this goes ahead.



"Run For the Hills Before They Burn"

Checkout my Facebook page "Proper Football Grounds"

facebook.com/paul.fergusson


VP
Man City Transfer Target!


Jun 28, 2012, 8:17 PM

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Re: [wishmaster3211] THE Rangers FC or Reply Privately

From that piece - "Should the SFL clubs reject the plans, the SPL will push ahead with plans to form a second tier which would include the newco Rangers.

First Division clubs would be invited to join the new division, reducing the numbers in the SFL and cutting off the promotion and relegation link between the two bodies."


So they're assuming that, if the SFL teams vote against Rangers joining, enough of them will then turn around and accept an invitation into a renamed division with a few extra quid shoved its way?

What if only three or four Division One clubs accept the invitation? That'll screw the whole thing up.


(This post was edited by VP on Jun 28, 2012, 8:18 PM)


Sarumio
Man City Transfer Target!

Jun 28, 2012, 8:19 PM

Posts: 6321
Location: Ilminster
Team(s): Salisbury


Views: 16480
Re: [VP] THE Rangers FC or Reply Privately


In Reply To
From that piece - "Should the SFL clubs reject the plans, the SPL will push ahead with plans to form a second tier which would include the newco Rangers.

First Division clubs would be invited to join the new division, reducing the numbers in the SFL and cutting off the promotion and relegation link between the two bodies."


So they're assuming that, if the SFL teams vote against Rangers joining, enough of them will then turn around and accept an invitation into a renamed division with a few extra quid shoved its way?

What if only three or four Division One clubs accept the invitation? That'll screw the whole thing up.


Exactly - or worse 10 clubs could turn around and accept the invitation - but it could be the 10 clubs currently in Division Three! Smile


garethwrexy
Man City Transfer Target!

Jun 28, 2012, 8:29 PM

Posts: 9305
Location: whitford near holywell north wales
Team(s): wrexham and dulwich


Views: 16463
Re: [DavetheGlassboy] THE Rangers FC or Reply Privately

smarter than the average bear Wink



wrexham fc fa trophy winners 2013 !


Oxford Stone
Chelsea Transfer Target


Jun 28, 2012, 8:34 PM

Posts: 5558
Location: Abingdon-on-Thames
Team(s): Maidstone United


Views: 16452
Re: [Sarumio] THE Rangers FC or Reply Privately


In Reply To

In Reply To
From that piece - "Should the SFL clubs reject the plans, the SPL will push ahead with plans to form a second tier which would include the newco Rangers.

First Division clubs would be invited to join the new division, reducing the numbers in the SFL and cutting off the promotion and relegation link between the two bodies."


So they're assuming that, if the SFL teams vote against Rangers joining, enough of them will then turn around and accept an invitation into a renamed division with a few extra quid shoved its way?

What if only three or four Division One clubs accept the invitation? That'll screw the whole thing up.


Exactly - or worse 10 clubs could turn around and accept the invitation - but it could be the 10 clubs currently in Division Three! Smile


They've not been invited to the party - First Division clubs would be invited to join the new division...

Call it sour grapes but I do wish a Maidstonesque demotion on them. The fact that my boss is a bluenose who thinks they've done nothing wrong, is beside the point.


Leyther_Matt
First Team Star

Jun 28, 2012, 10:11 PM

Posts: 1901
Location: Leigh, Lancashire
Team(s): Hibernian, Bolton Wanderers, Atherton Collieries & Leigh Centurions RL


Views: 16383
Re: [Oxford Stone] THE Rangers FC or Reply Privately

I genuinely feel a little bit ill after reading that STV article. I even had to read it a couple of times as I just couldn't believe what it said.

I love supporting Hibs. I love the trip up. I love the chance to visit a city as beautiful as Edinburgh every few weeks. I love visiting the other SPL grounds. I love being a part of the club, of the fanbase, of a culture that stretches back to 1875. When the statement was released that we would be voting 'no' to the NewCo entering the SPL, I was so proud that we were to make a stand to maintain, as Rod Petrie put it, "sporting integrity". But if the NewCo are allowed to completely bypass the Second and Third Divisions, all in the name of commercialism and greed on the part of the SPL, the SFA, the SFL and it's member clubs then I'm gutted to say that I will not be back for another game. It absolutely breaks my heart, but what's the point in supporting a club and competition that endorses cheating that is beyond all comprehension?


Unicorn
Chelsea Transfer Target

Jun 28, 2012, 10:42 PM

Posts: 3889
Location: Canterbury
Team(s): Arsenal and South Eastern Football


Views: 16353
Re: [Leyther_Matt] THE Rangers FC or Reply Privately


In Reply To
I genuinely feel a little bit ill after reading that STV article. I even had to read it a couple of times as I just couldn't believe what it said.

I love supporting Hibs. I love the trip up. I love the chance to visit a city as beautiful as Edinburgh every few weeks. I love visiting the other SPL grounds. I love being a part of the club, of the fanbase, of a culture that stretches back to 1875. When the statement was released that we would be voting 'no' to the NewCo entering the SPL, I was so proud that we were to make a stand to maintain, as Rod Petrie put it, "sporting integrity". But if the NewCo are allowed to completely bypass the Second and Third Divisions, all in the name of commercialism and greed on the part of the SPL, the SFA, the SFL and it's member clubs then I'm gutted to say that I will not be back for another game. It absolutely breaks my heart, but what's the point in supporting a club and competition that endorses cheating that is beyond all comprehension?


The world sold its soul to commercialism a long time ago.
You can't fight it. Just accept it.There really is no choice you can't change anything.
There are many people in this world with real problems.
I really find your post quite pathetic.
Football is an interest. Other things can be matter of life or death.
Your heart is broken is it. Get a life.


Oxford Stone
Chelsea Transfer Target


Jun 28, 2012, 10:43 PM

Posts: 5558
Location: Abingdon-on-Thames
Team(s): Maidstone United


Views: 16350
Re: [Leyther_Matt] THE Rangers FC or Reply Privately

Poignantly put, Matt. IT seems the soul and integrity of Scottish football, for a generation, are on the line here. Time to have a rethink and a restrucure. Let a lean, clean Rangers start in Div 3 and learn a few lessons.


Leyther_Matt
First Team Star

Jun 28, 2012, 10:50 PM

Posts: 1901
Location: Leigh, Lancashire
Team(s): Hibernian, Bolton Wanderers, Atherton Collieries & Leigh Centurions RL


Views: 16341
Re: [Unicorn] THE Rangers FC or Reply Privately


In Reply To

In Reply To
I genuinely feel a little bit ill after reading that STV article. I even had to read it a couple of times as I just couldn't believe what it said.

I love supporting Hibs. I love the trip up. I love the chance to visit a city as beautiful as Edinburgh every few weeks. I love visiting the other SPL grounds. I love being a part of the club, of the fanbase, of a culture that stretches back to 1875. When the statement was released that we would be voting 'no' to the NewCo entering the SPL, I was so proud that we were to make a stand to maintain, as Rod Petrie put it, "sporting integrity". But if the NewCo are allowed to completely bypass the Second and Third Divisions, all in the name of commercialism and greed on the part of the SPL, the SFA, the SFL and it's member clubs then I'm gutted to say that I will not be back for another game. It absolutely breaks my heart, but what's the point in supporting a club and competition that endorses cheating that is beyond all comprehension?


The world sold its soul to commercialism a long time ago.
You can't fight it. Just accept it.There really is no choice you can't change anything.
There are many people in this world with real problems.
I really find your post quite pathetic.
Football is an interest. Other things can be matter of life or death.
Your heart is broken is it. Get a life.

Are you sure that you're a football supporter?


Leyther_Matt
First Team Star

Jun 28, 2012, 10:54 PM

Posts: 1901
Location: Leigh, Lancashire
Team(s): Hibernian, Bolton Wanderers, Atherton Collieries & Leigh Centurions RL


Views: 16331
Re: [Oxford Stone] THE Rangers FC or Reply Privately


In Reply To
Poignantly put, Matt. IT seems the soul and integrity of Scottish football, for a generation, are on the line here. Time to have a rethink and a restrucure. Let a lean, clean Rangers start in Div 3 and learn a few lessons.

Thanks. I thought I was gutted after we lost the cup final, something I've always dreamed of us doing, but it's not even close to the dejection I'm feeling at the thought of maybe having to walk away from the club.

The thing that has most startled me in the link is that they quote Rangers in the Third Division "Takes approximately £16 million out of the game" and suspending them entirely would lead to "Complete financial meltdown". The same section mentions that "Fans are lost to the game forever". I don't think they even appreciate the off-the-scale irony of that.


Unicorn
Chelsea Transfer Target

Jun 28, 2012, 11:10 PM

Posts: 3889
Location: Canterbury
Team(s): Arsenal and South Eastern Football


Views: 16296
Re: [Leyther_Matt] THE Rangers FC or Reply Privately


In Reply To

In Reply To

In Reply To
I genuinely feel a little bit ill after reading that STV article. I even had to read it a couple of times as I just couldn't believe what it said.

I love supporting Hibs. I love the trip up. I love the chance to visit a city as beautiful as Edinburgh every few weeks. I love visiting the other SPL grounds. I love being a part of the club, of the fanbase, of a culture that stretches back to 1875. When the statement was released that we would be voting 'no' to the NewCo entering the SPL, I was so proud that we were to make a stand to maintain, as Rod Petrie put it, "sporting integrity". But if the NewCo are allowed to completely bypass the Second and Third Divisions, all in the name of commercialism and greed on the part of the SPL, the SFA, the SFL and it's member clubs then I'm gutted to say that I will not be back for another game. It absolutely breaks my heart, but what's the point in supporting a club and competition that endorses cheating that is beyond all comprehension?


The world sold its soul to commercialism a long time ago.
You can't fight it. Just accept it.There really is no choice you can't change anything.
There are many people in this world with real problems.
I really find your post quite pathetic.
Football is an interest. Other things can be matter of life or death.
Your heart is broken is it. Get a life.

Are you sure that you're a football supporter?


If you want to be heartbroken about something worry about sick children in hospitals not what division Rangers are put in.
You post makes me sick.


hawkwind
First Team Star

Jun 28, 2012, 11:51 PM

Posts: 2016
Location:
Team(s):


Views: 16255
Re: [Unicorn] THE Rangers FC or Reply Privately


In Reply To

In Reply To
I genuinely feel a little bit ill after reading that STV article. I even had to read it a couple of times as I just couldn't believe what it said.

I love supporting Hibs. I love the trip up. I love the chance to visit a city as beautiful as Edinburgh every few weeks. I love visiting the other SPL grounds. I love being a part of the club, of the fanbase, of a culture that stretches back to 1875. When the statement was released that we would be voting 'no' to the NewCo entering the SPL, I was so proud that we were to make a stand to maintain, as Rod Petrie put it, "sporting integrity". But if the NewCo are allowed to completely bypass the Second and Third Divisions, all in the name of commercialism and greed on the part of the SPL, the SFA, the SFL and it's member clubs then I'm gutted to say that I will not be back for another game. It absolutely breaks my heart, but what's the point in supporting a club and competition that endorses cheating that is beyond all comprehension?


The world sold its soul to commercialism a long time ago.
You can't fight it. Just accept it.There really is no choice you can't change anything.
There are many people in this world with real problems.
I really find your post quite pathetic.
Football is an interest. Other things can be matter of life or death.
Your heart is broken is it. Get a life.


Leyther_Matt, I know your post was a personal view but I believe you encapsulated perfectly what so many people who love the game of football feel. In England we've had our bad moments (Wimbledon 2002 and Leeds United 2007 spring to mind) when frankly I've felt completely let down by the powers who've shown little or no regard for the interests of the game, but plenty to protect the business interests of a select few.

Scotland has suffered greatly since the Bosman ruling. The national team after a 24 year period of relative glory (eight qualifications for a major finals) has failed to qualify for a major finals since 1998, while the dominance of Celtic and Rangers in the national league has attained unprecedented heights - just once since 1995 has any team outside the Old Firm finished in the top two. A thriving league from which Aberdeen won a European trophy and Dundee United reached a final has been replaced by a borefest which has been a disaster for the national team.

I don't know whether Scottish football needs a strong Rangers or not, but I do know that it doesn't need a sick Rangers that ran up massive debts, walked away and then demanded to be let off. Rangers should restart at level four, and they need owners who understand that. Everything that I have seen reported suggests that Charles Green is the wrong man, and, while I have no wish to see him lose money, given the scale of debts wiped out I would find it close to criminal for him to profit from these events. Sadly it appears that the Scottish FA have completely misjudged the situation.

As for your reply Unicorn? Well let's just say that I found it disrespectful and unwelcome.


letsgotimbers
Junior Team Sub

Jun 28, 2012, 11:57 PM

Posts: 13
Location:
Team(s):


Views: 16249
Re: [Unicorn] THE Rangers FC or Reply Privately


In Reply To
If you want to be heartbroken about something worry about sick children in hospitals not what division Rangers are put in.
You post makes me sick.


Go take some Bayer then and leave the posting to us.

Which division Rangers is placed in is important to sporting integrity in the Scottish game and will have a direct impact on how people support their clubs. Losing your club can be a difficult moment, I can certainly understand how losing your club even though they are still playing could also be difficult.


kentrebel
Youth Team Regular

Jun 29, 2012, 12:37 AM

Posts: 213
Location: Weardale, County Durham
Team(s): Worthing


Views: 16223
Re: [Unicorn] THE Rangers FC or Reply Privately

My life, my decisions, my values are all just that, whether "sad" or not they are still valid

Leyther_Matt post is totally understandable Unicorn, yours I just don't get.


Chris M
Reserve Team Sub

Jun 29, 2012, 12:49 AM

Posts: 459
Location: Sheffield
Team(s): Everton, Marine, Sheffield clubs generally


Views: 16214
Re: [Unicorn] THE Rangers FC or Reply Privately


In Reply To

In Reply To

In Reply To

In Reply To
I genuinely feel a little bit ill after reading that STV article. I even had to read it a couple of times as I just couldn't believe what it said.

I love supporting Hibs. I love the trip up. I love the chance to visit a city as beautiful as Edinburgh every few weeks. I love visiting the other SPL grounds. I love being a part of the club, of the fanbase, of a culture that stretches back to 1875. When the statement was released that we would be voting 'no' to the NewCo entering the SPL, I was so proud that we were to make a stand to maintain, as Rod Petrie put it, "sporting integrity". But if the NewCo are allowed to completely bypass the Second and Third Divisions, all in the name of commercialism and greed on the part of the SPL, the SFA, the SFL and it's member clubs then I'm gutted to say that I will not be back for another game. It absolutely breaks my heart, but what's the point in supporting a club and competition that endorses cheating that is beyond all comprehension?


The world sold its soul to commercialism a long time ago.
You can't fight it. Just accept it.There really is no choice you can't change anything.
There are many people in this world with real problems.
I really find your post quite pathetic.
Football is an interest. Other things can be matter of life or death.
Your heart is broken is it. Get a life.

Are you sure that you're a football supporter?


If you want to be heartbroken about something worry about sick children in hospitals not what division Rangers are put in.
You post makes me sick.


You mean there's sick children in hospital, and you're sat at a computer arguing on a forum about a mere sport when you could be helping improve their lives?

Disgraceful.


(This post was edited by Chris M on Jun 29, 2012, 12:55 AM)


Mister TwoU
First Team Star


Jun 29, 2012, 5:30 AM

Posts: 2497
Location: Back in hilly Malvern.
Team(s): Malvern Town FC


Views: 16192
Re: [Chris M] THE Rangers FC or Reply Privately


In Reply To

In Reply To

In Reply To

In Reply To

In Reply To
I genuinely feel a little bit ill after reading that STV article. I even had to read it a couple of times as I just couldn't believe what it said.

I love supporting Hibs. I love the trip up. I love the chance to visit a city as beautiful as Edinburgh every few weeks. I love visiting the other SPL grounds. I love being a part of the club, of the fanbase, of a culture that stretches back to 1875. When the statement was released that we would be voting 'no' to the NewCo entering the SPL, I was so proud that we were to make a stand to maintain, as Rod Petrie put it, "sporting integrity". But if the NewCo are allowed to completely bypass the Second and Third Divisions, all in the name of commercialism and greed on the part of the SPL, the SFA, the SFL and it's member clubs then I'm gutted to say that I will not be back for another game. It absolutely breaks my heart, but what's the point in supporting a club and competition that endorses cheating that is beyond all comprehension?


The world sold its soul to commercialism a long time ago.
You can't fight it. Just accept it.There really is no choice you can't change anything.
There are many people in this world with real problems.
I really find your post quite pathetic.
Football is an interest. Other things can be matter of life or death.
Your heart is broken is it. Get a life.

Are you sure that you're a football supporter?


If you want to be heartbroken about something worry about sick children in hospitals not what division Rangers are put in.
You post makes me sick.


You mean there's sick children in hospital, and you're sat at a computer arguing on a forum about a mere sport when you could be helping improve their lives?

Disgraceful.


Frankly, I'd say he is. He's as far from them as is possible when on here. Job done.



Otherwise. It's been researched and proven many a time in the last fifty-odd years, that even just the relegation of a fervently supported team has a stress-impact on the supporter of the same magnitude as the death of a close relative, the break-up of a loving personal relationship, a grievous physical assault being suffered or being found guilty of a crime one has not committed. It casually exceeds the stress involved in a major house-move or being fired from one's job.

Supporting his team is a very personal, deep-set choice for such a fan. It is as psychologically compelling as the attachment one has for one's chosen life-partner, or the faith of one religiously inclined and will often far exceed one's sense of national identity.

And all that research has ONLY been comparing the relegation of one's supported team, a relatively temporary (sometimes) blow. One may only stop and wonder at the true psychological impact that the permanent loss of his team might have on such a supporter!

Of course, we as real supporters already appreciate and understand that sense of attachment, although like the concept of one's own eventual physical demise, we can only guess at the true meaning of entering that state, until the end is virtually upon us.

Dismissing another person's truly-experienced psychic pain as mere frivolity is naivete at best and a sociopathic utterance by those who should know better.

THAT comment, I felt extremely personally myself and I'm certain many others here did too.



Professional cretin.


Leyther_Matt
First Team Star

Jun 29, 2012, 11:11 AM

Posts: 1901
Location: Leigh, Lancashire
Team(s): Hibernian, Bolton Wanderers, Atherton Collieries & Leigh Centurions RL


Views: 16073
Re: [Mister TwoU] THE Rangers FC or Reply Privately

Thanks for your understand, folks - appreciate it!

As can be seen below my avatar, I've already been through the emotions of seeing my club die and although it was obviously devastating, there had always been a sense of the inevitable given the much-publicised problems that Leigh suffered in recent years. The irony is of course that we no longer operated at senior level because we couldn't afford to do so as an operating concern, but made sure that all outstanding debts to the tax man, other clubs, the FA etc were all settled. The SPL situation however has been much harder to take, simply because it defies all logic, breaks all manner of rules and guidelines and just seems wholly unjust.

I'm going to two of the pre-season games in Belgium and Germany in a few weeks, and they certainly weren't places that I would expect would be my final Hibs games! Hoping there may be a chance for an interesting chat with one or two of the directors while I'm out there though.


wishmaster3211
First Team Star


Jun 29, 2012, 12:27 PM

Posts: 2481
Location: A small town in Monmouthshire
Team(s): Calne Town, Darlington, Rosenborg, Sussex CCC, Huddersfield RL


Views: 16030
Re: [Leyther_Matt] THE Rangers FC or Reply Privately

Matt

I think I have become too cynical to feel that way any more, but I know where you are coming from. To be honest I stopped bothering about going to Hibs when Collins walked out. The Board just wants to pay peanuts to players and be some sort of nursery club doubtless raking in ££££ from agents negotiating fat sell on deals with the Old Firm. Since JC left the standard has died as has the standard in the SPL in general.

However I do remember feeling like that, at the time when Wallace Mercer tried to buy Hibs and merge them with Hearts! So I do understand how you feel and Unicorns post is pretty uncalled for. Whilst logically he may be right, emotionally it is just bullshit. It took 20 years for me to get to the stage where the team i supported as a kid (Darlington) can go bust and I dont feel anything...I am not even sure its a good thing!

The whole attitude of Scottish football stinks. From the Clubs like Hibs that wont even try to compete with the Old Firm, to the SFL and SFA behaving as if the whole set up will go bust if Rangers aren't in the SPL.

I really do wish that the Old Firm would go away and set up their own two team division where they can endlessely play each other and re-enact their sectarian bullshit and let the rest of us enjoy some competitive football!



"Run For the Hills Before They Burn"

Checkout my Facebook page "Proper Football Grounds"

facebook.com/paul.fergusson

(This post was edited by wishmaster3211 on Jun 29, 2012, 12:29 PM)


D A
First Team Star


Jun 29, 2012, 12:37 PM

Posts: 1788
Location: Airstrip 1 , Oceania.
Team(s): Airstrip 1.


Views: 16018
Re: [wishmaster3211] THE Rangers FC or Reply Privately


In Reply To
To be honest I stopped bothering about going to Hibs when Collins walked out.


Alex Cropley for me , never the same after him leaving.



'I'm not cynical. I'm just experienced'.
29/11/2012. Anyone need numbers for Cheddar F C please p/m.


ladderman
Man City Transfer Target!

Jun 29, 2012, 12:46 PM

Posts: 7426
Location: Bishop's Stortford
Team(s): Bishop's Stortford & Cambridge United


Views: 16011
Re: [wishmaster3211] THE Rangers FC or Reply Privately

Working on Unicorn's theory, there really is no point goingto football & supporting a team. I wonder why he's even on here.

Anyway, the whole SPL2 threat it just plain weird. As it seems that the SPL clubs want to punish Rangers for a season (which seems light to me)) but not for any longer they may as well vote them back in with a 25 points relegation (to wrack their season), insist they honour all football debts and cut their share of the TV money. That's basically the samr thing as sticking them in Div 1, and is probably what they'd have done if the fans' groups hadn't kicked up a stink. I do wonder who the directors of SPL clubs manage to get around without a spine.


Unicorn
Chelsea Transfer Target

Jun 29, 2012, 2:17 PM

Posts: 3889
Location: Canterbury
Team(s): Arsenal and South Eastern Football


Views: 15937
Re: [ladderman] THE Rangers FC or Reply Privately


In Reply To
Working on Unicorn's theory, there really is no point goingto football & supporting a team. I wonder why he's even on here.

Anyway, the whole SPL2 threat it just plain weird. As it seems that the SPL clubs want to punish Rangers for a season (which seems light to me)) but not for any longer they may as well vote them back in with a 25 points relegation (to wrack their season), insist they honour all football debts and cut their share of the TV money. That's basically the samr thing as sticking them in Div 1, and is probably what they'd have done if the fans' groups hadn't kicked up a stink. I do wonder who the directors of SPL clubs manage to get around without a spine.


Actually if your going to let things that happen in football upset you then i can't see any point in taking an interest.
Your suppose to enjoy it.
I never get emotional about football or the way its run.
There is nothing i can do about it.
You and others can run me down all you want.
I can't get emotional about football to the extent that some people do. I don't understand them at all.
And thats it really.


Leyther_Matt
First Team Star

Jun 29, 2012, 2:24 PM

Posts: 1901
Location: Leigh, Lancashire
Team(s): Hibernian, Bolton Wanderers, Atherton Collieries & Leigh Centurions RL


Views: 15926
Re: [Unicorn] THE Rangers FC or Reply Privately


In Reply To

In Reply To
Working on Unicorn's theory, there really is no point goingto football & supporting a team. I wonder why he's even on here.

Anyway, the whole SPL2 threat it just plain weird. As it seems that the SPL clubs want to punish Rangers for a season (which seems light to me)) but not for any longer they may as well vote them back in with a 25 points relegation (to wrack their season), insist they honour all football debts and cut their share of the TV money. That's basically the samr thing as sticking them in Div 1, and is probably what they'd have done if the fans' groups hadn't kicked up a stink. I do wonder who the directors of SPL clubs manage to get around without a spine.


Actually if your going to let things that happen in football upset you then i can't see any point in taking an interest.
Your suppose to enjoy it.
I never get emotional about football or the way its run.
There is nothing i can do about it.
You and others can run me down all you want.
I can't get emotional about football to the extent that some people do. I don't understand them at all.
And thats it really.

If you never get emotional about football, how can you enjoy it? Surely pleasure is an emotion as much as despair?


Unicorn
Chelsea Transfer Target

Jun 29, 2012, 2:31 PM

Posts: 3889
Location: Canterbury
Team(s): Arsenal and South Eastern Football


Views: 15920
Re: [Leyther_Matt] THE Rangers FC or Reply Privately


In Reply To

In Reply To

In Reply To
Working on Unicorn's theory, there really is no point goingto football & supporting a team. I wonder why he's even on here.

Anyway, the whole SPL2 threat it just plain weird. As it seems that the SPL clubs want to punish Rangers for a season (which seems light to me)) but not for any longer they may as well vote them back in with a 25 points relegation (to wrack their season), insist they honour all football debts and cut their share of the TV money. That's basically the samr thing as sticking them in Div 1, and is probably what they'd have done if the fans' groups hadn't kicked up a stink. I do wonder who the directors of SPL clubs manage to get around without a spine.


Actually if your going to let things that happen in football upset you then i can't see any point in taking an interest.
Your suppose to enjoy it.
I never get emotional about football or the way its run.
There is nothing i can do about it.
You and others can run me down all you want.
I can't get emotional about football to the extent that some people do. I don't understand them at all.
And thats it really.

If you never get emotional about football, how can you enjoy it? Surely pleasure is an emotion as much as despair?


Yes when the game is on i do.
But not after the game. I just go to the pub and forget it to till next time.
If you enjoy going up to watch Hibs why stop because of the Rangers situation.
Surely you are letting your emotions about it all take away something you want to do.


Leyther_Matt
First Team Star

Jun 29, 2012, 2:39 PM

Posts: 1901
Location: Leigh, Lancashire
Team(s): Hibernian, Bolton Wanderers, Atherton Collieries & Leigh Centurions RL


Views: 15912
Re: [Unicorn] THE Rangers FC or Reply Privately


In Reply To

In Reply To

In Reply To

In Reply To
Working on Unicorn's theory, there really is no point goingto football & supporting a team. I wonder why he's even on here.

Anyway, the whole SPL2 threat it just plain weird. As it seems that the SPL clubs want to punish Rangers for a season (which seems light to me)) but not for any longer they may as well vote them back in with a 25 points relegation (to wrack their season), insist they honour all football debts and cut their share of the TV money. That's basically the samr thing as sticking them in Div 1, and is probably what they'd have done if the fans' groups hadn't kicked up a stink. I do wonder who the directors of SPL clubs manage to get around without a spine.


Actually if your going to let things that happen in football upset you then i can't see any point in taking an interest.
Your suppose to enjoy it.
I never get emotional about football or the way its run.
There is nothing i can do about it.
You and others can run me down all you want.
I can't get emotional about football to the extent that some people do. I don't understand them at all.
And thats it really.

If you never get emotional about football, how can you enjoy it? Surely pleasure is an emotion as much as despair?


Yes when the game is on i do.
But not after the game. I just go to the pub and forget it to till next time.
If you enjoy going up to watch Hibs why stop because of the Rangers situation.
Surely you are letting your emotions about it all take away something you want to do.

Because I support Hibs as part of a sporting competition. If the sporting integrity of that competition is compromised, as it would be by any entrance of a NewCo in to anything other than Division Three, then it's something that I don't want to be a part of.


Unicorn
Chelsea Transfer Target

Jun 29, 2012, 2:51 PM

Posts: 3889
Location: Canterbury
Team(s): Arsenal and South Eastern Football


Views: 14730
Re: [Leyther_Matt] THE Rangers FC or Reply Privately


In Reply To

In Reply To

In Reply To

In Reply To

In Reply To
Working on Unicorn's theory, there really is no point goingto football & supporting a team. I wonder why he's even on here.

Anyway, the whole SPL2 threat it just plain weird. As it seems that the SPL clubs want to punish Rangers for a season (which seems light to me)) but not for any longer they may as well vote them back in with a 25 points relegation (to wrack their season), insist they honour all football debts and cut their share of the TV money. That's basically the samr thing as sticking them in Div 1, and is probably what they'd have done if the fans' groups hadn't kicked up a stink. I do wonder who the directors of SPL clubs manage to get around without a spine.


Actually if your going to let things that happen in football upset you then i can't see any point in taking an interest.
Your suppose to enjoy it.
I never get emotional about football or the way its run.
There is nothing i can do about it.
You and others can run me down all you want.
I can't get emotional about football to the extent that some people do. I don't understand them at all.
And thats it really.

If you never get emotional about football, how can you enjoy it? Surely pleasure is an emotion as much as despair?


Yes when the game is on i do.
But not after the game. I just go to the pub and forget it to till next time.
If you enjoy going up to watch Hibs why stop because of the Rangers situation.
Surely you are letting your emotions about it all take away something you want to do.

Because I support Hibs as part of a sporting competition. If the sporting integrity of that competition is compromised, as it would be by any entrance of a NewCo in to anything other than Division Three, then it's something that I don't want to be a part of.


Well that is of course your choice but we come back to where we started.
You look at the world differently to me. I knew from the start that the SFA would try all they could to keep Rangers from dropping too far and said so on this thread.
That has always been the way of the world not just football.
If you don't go to Hibs anymore i can't understand it nor can i have the sympathy for you that others seem to have.
Don't let idealism get in the way of enjoying yourself.
The rest of the world does not.


ladderman
Man City Transfer Target!

Jun 29, 2012, 2:52 PM

Posts: 7426
Location: Bishop's Stortford
Team(s): Bishop's Stortford & Cambridge United


Views: 14729
Re: [Unicorn] THE Rangers FC or Reply Privately


In Reply To

In Reply To
Working on Unicorn's theory, there really is no point goingto football & supporting a team. I wonder why he's even on here.


Actually if your going to let things that happen in football upset you then i can't see any point in taking an interest.
Your suppose to enjoy it.
I never get emotional about football or the way its run.
There is nothing i can do about it.
You and others can run me down all you want.
I can't get emotional about football to the extent that some people do. I don't understand them at all.
And thats it really.


You can get emotional/upset about something you care about, keeping it in proportion isn't a bad idea, though.
If you always take the view that there's someone worse off or something worse has happened, you end up not caring about anything.
Peope are pissed off that there's no integrity in Scottish football, I think that's better than no one giving a toss that there's no integrity in Scottish football.


IAN S
First Team Star

Jun 29, 2012, 3:08 PM

Posts: 2488
Location: Stocksbridge, Sheffield
Team(s): Sheffield United, Sheffield Eagles, Kendal Town


Views: 14714
Re: [Unicorn] THE Rangers FC or Reply Privately

"I never get emotional about football or the way its run".


Spoken like a true Arsenal fan.



We'll be, as we are, when all the fools who doubt us fade away.


Roman
First Team Sub


Jun 29, 2012, 3:13 PM

Posts: 1037
Location: Exiled in Staffordshire
Team(s): Arsenal, Rocester, Brentford


Views: 14708
Re: [IAN S] THE Rangers FC or Reply Privately


In Reply To
"I never get emotional about football or the way its run".


Spoken like a true Arsenal fan.


Harsh. Unimpressed


Oxford Stone
Chelsea Transfer Target


Jun 29, 2012, 3:31 PM

Posts: 5558
Location: Abingdon-on-Thames
Team(s): Maidstone United


Views: 14689
Re: [Roman] THE Rangers FC or Reply Privately

C'mon, you must be used to it. Arsenal are the BMW of football - grudgingly admired but everyone loves to hate them.


UKPunk
Man City Transfer Target!

Jun 29, 2012, 3:39 PM

Posts: 11786
Location:
Team(s):


Views: 14685
Re: [Roman] THE Rangers FC or Reply Privately


In Reply To

In Reply To
"I never get emotional about football or the way its run".


Spoken like a true Arsenal fan.

Harsh. Unimpressed

But funny. Cool



1-0-1-0-4-25-40-65-181-289=606

Last game: Mon 20/8/18
4. Basford United 1 Hednesford Town 2


garethwrexy
Man City Transfer Target!

Jun 29, 2012, 3:58 PM

Posts: 9305
Location: whitford near holywell north wales
Team(s): wrexham and dulwich


Views: 14667
Re: [Leyther_Matt] THE Rangers FC or Reply Privately

wonder which team will step up to the mark and challeneg celtic for the title next season ?



wrexham fc fa trophy winners 2013 !


D A
First Team Star


Jun 29, 2012, 4:03 PM

Posts: 1788
Location: Airstrip 1 , Oceania.
Team(s): Airstrip 1.


Views: 14663
Re: [garethwrexy] THE Rangers FC or Reply Privately


In Reply To
wonder which team will step up to the mark and challeneg celtic for the title next season ?


I can tell you which team it won't be !



'I'm not cynical. I'm just experienced'.
29/11/2012. Anyone need numbers for Cheddar F C please p/m.


wishmaster3211
First Team Star


Jun 29, 2012, 4:14 PM

Posts: 2481
Location: A small town in Monmouthshire
Team(s): Calne Town, Darlington, Rosenborg, Sussex CCC, Huddersfield RL


Views: 14643
Re: [garethwrexy] THE Rangers FC or Reply Privately


In Reply To
wonder which team will step up to the mark and challeneg celtic for the title next season ?


None of them. They will be sat on their hands waiting for Team 12 yo xome back so they can go back to comfortable mid table mediocrity fed by old firm tv money. They are spineless as someone said earlier.



"Run For the Hills Before They Burn"

Checkout my Facebook page "Proper Football Grounds"

facebook.com/paul.fergusson


Roman
First Team Sub


Jun 29, 2012, 4:18 PM

Posts: 1037
Location: Exiled in Staffordshire
Team(s): Arsenal, Rocester, Brentford


Views: 14639
Re: [Oxford Stone] THE Rangers FC or Reply Privately


In Reply To
C'mon, you must be used to it. Arsenal are the BMW of football - grudgingly admired but everyone loves to hate them.


Yeah, I know, we're used to it!

TBH much of it is deserved, I've only been to the Emirates twice and am in no hurry to go back. Not the same since Highbury, my two slabs of turf from the old place are still growing nicely in a Belfast sink in my garden Smile

Best not hijack the Rangers thread anyway.


Roman
First Team Sub


Jun 29, 2012, 4:19 PM

Posts: 1037
Location: Exiled in Staffordshire
Team(s): Arsenal, Rocester, Brentford


Views: 14636
Re: [UKPunk] THE Rangers FC or Reply Privately


In Reply To

In Reply To

In Reply To
"I never get emotional about football or the way its run".


Spoken like a true Arsenal fan.

Harsh. Unimpressed

But funny. Cool


Not speaking to you! Cool


PaulC
Man City Transfer Target!


Jun 29, 2012, 4:24 PM

Posts: 11798
Location: Ayrshire, Midlothian
Team(s): AFC Darwen, Troon, Ayr Utd, Burnley


Views: 14627
Re: [Leyther_Matt] THE Rangers FC or Reply Privately


In Reply To
Because I support Hibs as part of a sporting competition. If the sporting integrity of that competition is compromised, as it would be by any entrance of a NewCo in to anything other than Division Three, then it's something that I don't want to be a part of.


If people in England adopted that attitude there'd be no one watching English football. Middlesbrough and Charlton simply continued where they left off as newcos.



Siberian Monkey
Youth Team Star

Jun 29, 2012, 4:41 PM

Posts: 296
Location: Sheffield
Team(s): Lincoln C


Views: 14604
Re: [PaulC] THE Rangers FC or Reply Privately

@ Unicorn. I share your cynicism with the world; we have collectively sold out to commercialism. If you don’t like McDonald’s or Coke as representations of globalisation, don’t consume them. If Matt doesn’t like the commercialisation of the SPL then he shouldn’t go. At least he’s taking a stand against it. That’s certainly preferable to meekly accepting the situation because ‘you can’t change anything’, which is far worse than blindly following. Because a situation is ‘the way of the world’, it doesn’t make it right and history can turn on the actions of individuals.

People get passionate about their hobbies and that isn’t just about football. They can offer personal development and escape from routine. It is possible to have multiple interests and it's judgemental of you to assume that someone has no altruistic or charitable concerns. Likewise, responding to someone’s passion in their interest by telling them to get a life is unnecessary and yet you seem surprised it is Matt’s opinion that is receiving sympathy rather than yours, especially on a forum which has many contributors who are highly passionate or even obsessed. A number of people on this forum have already turned their backs on money-driven competitions in favour of ones which match their ideals; ones which, for them, match their notions of sporting integrity. I don’t see why giving up on Scottish football is any different from that should Rangers not receive fit punishment.


ladderman
Man City Transfer Target!

Jun 29, 2012, 5:03 PM

Posts: 7426
Location: Bishop's Stortford
Team(s): Bishop's Stortford & Cambridge United


Views: 14585
Re: [wishmaster3211] THE Rangers FC or Reply Privately


In Reply To
They are spineless as someone said earlier.


I'll take credit for thatCool

As an aside, I don't know why people keep bringing up Charlton/Leeds/Middlebrough. Different eras and - most importantly - different countries. Just irrelevant to any of this monkey business in the Scottish Monkey League.


Leyther_Matt
First Team Star

Jun 29, 2012, 5:08 PM

Posts: 1901
Location: Leigh, Lancashire
Team(s): Hibernian, Bolton Wanderers, Atherton Collieries & Leigh Centurions RL


Views: 14579
Re: [PaulC] THE Rangers FC or Reply Privately


In Reply To

In Reply To
Because I support Hibs as part of a sporting competition. If the sporting integrity of that competition is compromised, as it would be by any entrance of a NewCo in to anything other than Division Three, then it's something that I don't want to be a part of.


If people in England adopted that attitude there'd be no one watching English football. Middlesbrough and Charlton simply continued where they left off as newcos.

I wasn't around at the time but presumably Middlesbrough and Charlton didn't hoodwink the authorities for more than a decade with false contracts and the like, whilst also avoiding paying tax to make sure they didn't need to sell players to balance the books?


Unicorn
Chelsea Transfer Target

Jun 29, 2012, 5:10 PM

Posts: 3889
Location: Canterbury
Team(s): Arsenal and South Eastern Football


Views: 14577
Re: [Siberian Monkey] THE Rangers FC or Reply Privately


In Reply To
@ Unicorn. I share your cynicism with the world; we have collectively sold out to commercialism. If you don’t like McDonald’s or Coke as representations of globalisation, don’t consume them. If Matt doesn’t like the commercialisation of the SPL then he shouldn’t go. At least he’s taking a stand against it. That’s certainly preferable to meekly accepting the situation because ‘you can’t change anything’, which is far worse than blindly following. Because a situation is ‘the way of the world’, it doesn’t make it right and history can turn on the actions of individuals.

People get passionate about their hobbies and that isn’t just about football. They can offer personal development and escape from routine. It is possible to have multiple interests and it's judgemental of you to assume that someone has no altruistic or charitable concerns. Likewise, responding to someone’s passion in their interest by telling them to get a life is unnecessary and yet you seem surprised it is Matt’s opinion that is receiving sympathy rather than yours, especially on a forum which has many contributors who are highly passionate or even obsessed. A number of people on this forum have already turned their backs on money-driven competitions in favour of ones which match their ideals; ones which, for them, match their notions of sporting integrity. I don’t see why giving up on Scottish football is any different from that should Rangers not receive fit punishment.


Three things.
The world has been corrupt since the dawn of time.
I am not Jesus. I can't change it.
I did not assume that someone did not have charitable concerns just that they were more worthy of being heartbroken about than football.
I not not in the least surprised that nobody agrees with me because they rarely do. However i can't change what i think just because its unpopular.


wishmaster3211
First Team Star


Jun 29, 2012, 5:18 PM

Posts: 2481
Location: A small town in Monmouthshire
Team(s): Calne Town, Darlington, Rosenborg, Sussex CCC, Huddersfield RL


Views: 14567
Re: [Leyther_Matt] THE Rangers FC or Reply Privately

What happened with Boro and Charlton is irrelevant. It was before the fa had any clear rules on it. That said it seems the sfa is in the same position as the fa were then. It will also be interesting to see what happens when a big Premier Club goes under and whether all these rules are so rigorously applied as they are to the likes of Rushden.

I think Leeds did actually end up being pretty heavily penalised. They ended up in d2 didnt they?

Anyway the issue of integrity is more due to that sickening spl letter and i sure dont remember the EPL threatening to take their toys away if Leeds were relegated!



"Run For the Hills Before They Burn"

Checkout my Facebook page "Proper Football Grounds"

facebook.com/paul.fergusson


PaulC
Man City Transfer Target!


Jun 29, 2012, 5:59 PM

Posts: 11798
Location: Ayrshire, Midlothian
Team(s): AFC Darwen, Troon, Ayr Utd, Burnley


Views: 14540
Re: [wishmaster3211] THE Rangers FC or Reply Privately

The deadline for newco submitting details of the new club to the SFA passed at 5 pm. There is no indication anything has been submitted.


(This post was edited by PaulC on Jun 29, 2012, 5:59 PM)


ladderman
Man City Transfer Target!

Jun 29, 2012, 6:10 PM

Posts: 7426
Location: Bishop's Stortford
Team(s): Bishop's Stortford & Cambridge United


Views: 14528
Re: [wishmaster3211] THE Rangers FC or Reply Privately


In Reply To
What happened with Boro and Charlton is irrelevant. It was before the fa had any clear rules on it. That said it seems the sfa is in the same position as the fa were then.

Livingstone provide a precident.


PaulC
Man City Transfer Target!


Jun 29, 2012, 6:11 PM

Posts: 11798
Location: Ayrshire, Midlothian
Team(s): AFC Darwen, Troon, Ayr Utd, Burnley


Views: 14528
Re: [PaulC] THE Rangers FC or Reply Privately

I believe Alex Thomson is reporting on developments on C4 news at 7 tonight

Today's blog http://blogs.channel4.com/...s-chance-saloon/2091

SOme of his tweets today

Senior Hampden source: they and clubs now inundated by fanpower demanding integrity over money. Says fans are right... Paints a picture os something now close to civil war between S Premier League, S Football League and SFA.

Senior Hampden source tells #c4news cannot see how RFC were allowed to play last season at all. Doesn't believe they met finance criteria...

Source says this is nothing less than a crude takeover bid by Scottish Premier League for Football League...

SFL powerpoint document should be met with utter contempt by all decent football fans - senior source in Hampden Pk tells #c4news


(This post was edited by PaulC on Jun 29, 2012, 6:20 PM)


acmold
Man City Transfer Target!

Jun 29, 2012, 6:24 PM

Posts: 14497
Location:
Team(s):


Views: 14516
Re: [Siberian Monkey] THE Rangers FC or


In Reply To
If you don’t like McDonald’s or Coke as representations of globalisation, don’t consume them.

If people don't like the Ranger's outcome, if people don't like other things that are happening in football in general they could all cancel there subscriptions to the various Sports channels. If everyone did that a very large slice of income would soon start to dry up.


cope1
Man City Transfer Target!

Jun 29, 2012, 6:54 PM

Posts: 7286
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Team(s):


Views: 14500
Re: [Unicorn] THE Rangers FC or Reply Privately


In Reply To

In Reply To

In Reply To

In Reply To
I genuinely feel a little bit ill after reading that STV article. I even had to read it a couple of times as I just couldn't believe what it said.

I love supporting Hibs. I love the trip up. I love the chance to visit a city as beautiful as Edinburgh every few weeks. I love visiting the other SPL grounds. I love being a part of the club, of the fanbase, of a culture that stretches back to 1875. When the statement was released that we would be voting 'no' to the NewCo entering the SPL, I was so proud that we were to make a stand to maintain, as Rod Petrie put it, "sporting integrity". But if the NewCo are allowed to completely bypass the Second and Third Divisions, all in the name of commercialism and greed on the part of the SPL, the SFA, the SFL and it's member clubs then I'm gutted to say that I will not be back for another game. It absolutely breaks my heart, but what's the point in supporting a club and competition that endorses cheating that is beyond all comprehension?


The world sold its soul to commercialism a long time ago.
You can't fight it. Just accept it.There really is no choice you can't change anything.
There are many people in this world with real problems.
I really find your post quite pathetic.
Football is an interest. Other things can be matter of life or death.
Your heart is broken is it. Get a life.

Are you sure that you're a football supporter?


If you want to be heartbroken about something worry about sick children in hospitals not what division Rangers are put in.
You post makes me sick.

You make me feel sick Unicorn. You sound like some who, having been bullied at home, shouts at any kid who doesn't like being beaten up. What is it that you find so hard to understand about why people don't like what Rangers have done?

You're one who should get a life. What Matt says sums up the base of the problem with this situation. He's not claiming it's the only problem to afflict football or that up until now football has been perfect.


wishmaster3211
First Team Star


Jun 29, 2012, 7:01 PM

Posts: 2481
Location: A small town in Monmouthshire
Team(s): Calne Town, Darlington, Rosenborg, Sussex CCC, Huddersfield RL


Views: 14493
Re: [acmold] THE Rangers FC or Reply Privately


In Reply To

In Reply To
If you don’t like McDonald’s or Coke as representations of globalisation, don’t consume them.

If people don't like the Ranger's outcome, if people don't like other things that are happening in football in general they could all cancel there subscriptions to the various Sports channels. If everyone did that a very large slice of income would soon start to dry up.


sadly its not that easy. I could stop watching Skys football coverage romorrow but i am a huge cricket fan which is why i have it and i cant tell sky to black all the football. Frankly their market domination has you over a barrell which i am sure is the point.

Mind you i would imagine if we all stopped watching the premier league it would affect their ratings .

When I got sick of the EPL I just stopped following the professional game, hence why I am on here. Thats probably the best way people could hurt them, nobody would turn on every week to watch half empty grounds and however much money they get from TV, most financial analyses I have seen still sets a lot of score by gate money.

Once you are out of it its not hard to stay out of it. The few times I have tried to get tickets for professional games I have hit a brick wall of memberships, multi game deals, and alleged sell outs which I regard as being too much hassle....



"Run For the Hills Before They Burn"

Checkout my Facebook page "Proper Football Grounds"

facebook.com/paul.fergusson

(This post was edited by wishmaster3211 on Jun 29, 2012, 7:15 PM)


cope1
Man City Transfer Target!

Jun 29, 2012, 7:16 PM

Posts: 7286
Location:
Team(s):


Views: 14477
Re: [wishmaster3211] THE Rangers FC or Reply Privately


In Reply To

In Reply To

In Reply To
If you don’t like McDonald’s or Coke as representations of globalisation, don’t consume them.

If people don't like the Ranger's outcome, if people don't like other things that are happening in football in general they could all cancel there subscriptions to the various Sports channels. If everyone did that a very large slice of income would soon start to dry up.


sadly its not that easy. I could stop watching Skys football coverage romorrow but i am a huge cricket fan which is why i have it and i cant tell sky to black all the football. Frankly their market domination has you over a barrell which i am sure is the point.

Mind you i would imagine if we all stopped watching the premier league it would affect their ratings anyway.

I think the only thing any of us can achieve by not paying for Sky (which I don't!) is to keep our conscience clean from the idea that we are lining Sky's pockets. Unfortunately, despite the widespread 'dissatisfaction' with the state of the game, most of it is bandwagon jumping. If you went to your local football pub on a Sunday and told them that if they all walked out before the game it would improve things they'd probably look at you blankly and dribble some more lager down their chin.


wishmaster3211
First Team Star


Jun 29, 2012, 7:29 PM

Posts: 2481
Location: A small town in Monmouthshire
Team(s): Calne Town, Darlington, Rosenborg, Sussex CCC, Huddersfield RL


Views: 14463
Re: [PaulC] THE Rangers FC or Reply Privately


In Reply To
I believe Alex Thomson is reporting on developments on C4 news at 7 tonight

Today's blog http://blogs.channel4.com/...s-chance-saloon/2091

SOme of his tweets today

Senior Hampden source: they and clubs now inundated by fanpower demanding integrity over money. Says fans are right... Paints a picture os something now close to civil war between S Premier League, S Football League and SFA.

Senior Hampden source tells #c4news cannot see how RFC were allowed to play last season at all. Doesn't believe they met finance criteria...

Source says this is nothing less than a crude takeover bid by Scottish Premier League for Football League...

SFL powerpoint document should be met with utter contempt by all decent football fans - senior source in Hampden Pk tells #c4news


I commend people to read these!!

Good post!



"Run For the Hills Before They Burn"

Checkout my Facebook page "Proper Football Grounds"

facebook.com/paul.fergusson


Unicorn
Chelsea Transfer Target

Jun 29, 2012, 7:34 PM

Posts: 3889
Location: Canterbury
Team(s): Arsenal and South Eastern Football


Views: 14712
Re: [cope1] THE Rangers FC or Reply Privately


In Reply To

In Reply To

In Reply To

In Reply To

In Reply To
I genuinely feel a little bit ill after reading that STV article. I even had to read it a couple of times as I just couldn't believe what it said.

I love supporting Hibs. I love the trip up. I love the chance to visit a city as beautiful as Edinburgh every few weeks. I love visiting the other SPL grounds. I love being a part of the club, of the fanbase, of a culture that stretches back to 1875. When the statement was released that we would be voting 'no' to the NewCo entering the SPL, I was so proud that we were to make a stand to maintain, as Rod Petrie put it, "sporting integrity". But if the NewCo are allowed to completely bypass the Second and Third Divisions, all in the name of commercialism and greed on the part of the SPL, the SFA, the SFL and it's member clubs then I'm gutted to say that I will not be back for another game. It absolutely breaks my heart, but what's the point in supporting a club and competition that endorses cheating that is beyond all comprehension?


The world sold its soul to commercialism a long time ago.
You can't fight it. Just accept it.There really is no choice you can't change anything.
There are many people in this world with real problems.
I really find your post quite pathetic.
Football is an interest. Other things can be matter of life or death.
Your heart is broken is it. Get a life.

Are you sure that you're a football supporter?


If you want to be heartbroken about something worry about sick children in hospitals not what division Rangers are put in.
You post makes me sick.

You make me feel sick Unicorn. You sound like some who, having been bullied at home, shouts at any kid who doesn't like being beaten up. What is it that you find so hard to understand about why people don't like what Rangers have done?

You're one who should get a life. What Matt says sums up the base of the problem with this situation. He's not claiming it's the only problem to afflict football or that up until now football has been perfect.


Just read what i said.
I could not give a toss what you think.
And the two bob analysing of someone is pathetic.
I said what i think and thats all there is to it.


ladderman
Man City Transfer Target!

Jun 29, 2012, 7:43 PM

Posts: 7426
Location: Bishop's Stortford
Team(s): Bishop's Stortford & Cambridge United


Views: 14700
Re: [Unicorn] THE Rangers FC or Reply Privately

Well you got the 300th post on this thread. I'd stop digging, though.


Richard Watts
Youth Team Star

Jun 29, 2012, 8:05 PM

Posts: 373
Location: Bermondsey
Team(s): Dulwich Hamlet FC, Surrey CCC


Views: 14674
Re: [ladderman] THE Rangers FC or Reply Privately


In Reply To
Well you got the 300th post on this thread. I'd stop digging, though.

Actually someone else even beat him to that!

Unicorn seems to feel that "big clubs" rule OK, should be accommodated regardless via something resembling a franchising system as long as there's a suitable stadium and ready made fanbase, and everyone else should just "know their place". Sadly a lot of people actually ru(i)nning the game seem to feel the same way. No point in trying to reason with someone like that, but we can certainly disagree with them.


Unicorn
Chelsea Transfer Target

Jun 29, 2012, 8:46 PM

Posts: 3889
Location: Canterbury
Team(s): Arsenal and South Eastern Football


Views: 14625
Re: [Richard Watts] THE Rangers FC or Reply Privately


In Reply To

In Reply To
Well you got the 300th post on this thread. I'd stop digging, though.

Actually someone else even beat him to that!

Unicorn seems to feel that "big clubs" rule OK, should be accommodated regardless via something resembling a franchising system as long as there's a suitable stadium and ready made fanbase, and everyone else should just "know their place". Sadly a lot of people actually ru(i)nning the game seem to feel the same way. No point in trying to reason with someone like that, but we can certainly disagree with them.


No no no Richard.
I don't think they should be.
However they are.
I just don't care that they are.
Its the way of the world.


Unicorn
Chelsea Transfer Target

Jun 29, 2012, 8:48 PM

Posts: 3889
Location: Canterbury
Team(s): Arsenal and South Eastern Football


Views: 14620
Re: [ladderman] THE Rangers FC or Reply Privately


In Reply To
Well you got the 300th post on this thread. I'd stop digging, though.


I am not digging.
I am now just responding to other people.
If they shut up about it i will.


oftenscore6
Chelsea Transfer Target

Jun 29, 2012, 11:20 PM

Posts: 5252
Location: Saddleworth
Team(s): FCUM, MUFC, Hammarby, St Pauli, Hawthorn (AFL)


Views: 14536
Re: [Leyther_Matt] THE Rangers FC or Reply Privately


In Reply To

In Reply To

In Reply To

In Reply To

In Reply To
Working on Unicorn's theory, there really is no point goingto football & supporting a team. I wonder why he's even on here.

Anyway, the whole SPL2 threat it just plain weird. As it seems that the SPL clubs want to punish Rangers for a season (which seems light to me)) but not for any longer they may as well vote them back in with a 25 points relegation (to wrack their season), insist they honour all football debts and cut their share of the TV money. That's basically the samr thing as sticking them in Div 1, and is probably what they'd have done if the fans' groups hadn't kicked up a stink. I do wonder who the directors of SPL clubs manage to get around without a spine.


Actually if your going to let things that happen in football upset you then i can't see any point in taking an interest.
Your suppose to enjoy it.
I never get emotional about football or the way its run.
There is nothing i can do about it.
You and others can run me down all you want.
I can't get emotional about football to the extent that some people do. I don't understand them at all.
And thats it really.

If you never get emotional about football, how can you enjoy it? Surely pleasure is an emotion as much as despair?


Yes when the game is on i do.
But not after the game. I just go to the pub and forget it to till next time.
If you enjoy going up to watch Hibs why stop because of the Rangers situation.
Surely you are letting your emotions about it all take away something you want to do.

Because I support Hibs as part of a sporting competition. If the sporting integrity of that competition is compromised, as it would be by any entrance of a NewCo in to anything other than Division Three, then it's something that I don't want to be a part of.


How depressing it would be to give up and acquiese that commercialism will always triumph. It's been heartening that Scottish football fans have expressed their will already and quite possibly already ruled out the direct commercial preference to reinstate them in the SPL. Standing up for what you believe can make a difference and don't be afraid to do so!

Give me a competition with honesty and integrity over a commercial one every day.



-----------------------------------------------
Last new football ground (963) Silksmore Road Brocton 0-2 Lichfield City (9/11)
With FC United: 135
On the agenda:
12/11 Hyde v FC United

(This post was edited by oftenscore6 on Jun 29, 2012, 11:21 PM)


garethwrexy
Man City Transfer Target!

Jun 30, 2012, 9:49 AM

Posts: 9305
Location: whitford near holywell north wales
Team(s): wrexham and dulwich


Views: 14445
Re: [oftenscore6] THE Rangers FC or Reply Privately

bet the scottish first division clubs will be rubbing there hands !



wrexham fc fa trophy winners 2013 !


IAN S
First Team Star

Jun 30, 2012, 10:54 AM

Posts: 2488
Location: Stocksbridge, Sheffield
Team(s): Sheffield United, Sheffield Eagles, Kendal Town


Views: 14407
Re: [garethwrexy] THE Rangers FC or Reply Privately

Let's hope they charge Rangers fans £30+ for away games.



We'll be, as we are, when all the fools who doubt us fade away.


garethwrexy
Man City Transfer Target!

Jun 30, 2012, 12:29 PM

Posts: 9305
Location: whitford near holywell north wales
Team(s): wrexham and dulwich


Views: 14352
Re: [IAN S] THE Rangers FC or Reply Privately

are rangers going to be in scottish fa cup ?



wrexham fc fa trophy winners 2013 !


Mister TwoU
First Team Star


Jun 30, 2012, 2:10 PM

Posts: 2497
Location: Back in hilly Malvern.
Team(s): Malvern Town FC


Views: 14299
Re: [Unicorn] THE Rangers FC or Reply Privately


In Reply To

No no no Richard.
I don't think they should be.
However they are.
I just don't care that they are.
Its the way of the world.


Yes. I've 'had a go' at you, Unicorn. But I DO respect your opinion, no matter how wrongheaded I personally think it may be.

We are all entitled to our own individual sets of beliefs and all have our own unique understanding of the world, and long may that remain so.

In honesty, I can see both sides of the argument, after all, where does the state of Scottish Football stand amid the pantheon of the world's woes? Happen though, we are comparing chalk with cheese when we begin bringing in such spurious comparisoning.
World hunger, disease, economic meltdown, global warming and all - have their discrete champions - who are not expected to overlap their concerns, nor indeed, give much thought to the developing Rangers saga.
There are those who are in positions of influence who can and do exercise their options in their chosen fields - but that's the point: their chosen fields - arenas within which they can strive and just maybe make a difference.

Forgive me if I feel confusion over this, emanating from your statements. On one hand you're candid in your opinion that you feel we football afficionadoes should rather be investing our emotions in weightier matters, yet on the other hand, you paint the cynically bleak picture that we cannot affect or influence matters anyway. Perhaps I've read you wrong? There does appear a certain dissonance, a dichotomy in attitude there.

For my part, I agree with the side of you that says there are greater things to worry or be impassioned about. I cannot however agree with the side that dismisses those lesser passions. We become impassioned mostly within the fields we feel a part of, welcomed by, those that we feel in which our opinion counts. As the late, great Bill Shankly has often been (probably slightly mis-) quoted, "Someone said to me 'To you football is a matter of life or death!' and I said 'Listen, it's more important than that'."

And for me anyway, that's the way it should be.



Professional cretin.


HantsLondoner
First Team Star

Jun 30, 2012, 10:22 PM

Posts: 2828
Location: South Hampshire
Team(s): Hants/Middx/Sussex Non-League, Brentford, THFC, Eastleigh, SC Freiburg


Views: 14145
Re: [garethwrexy] THE Rangers FC or Reply Privately

Have they brought out a 'Club 12' scarf yet?



If you're going to/been to a Hampshire Premier League match, I'd really appreciate you filling in a questionnaire - available in the Groundhopping/General section, or just PM me for a copy. Thanks.


Richard Watts
Youth Team Star

Jun 30, 2012, 11:15 PM

Posts: 373
Location: Bermondsey
Team(s): Dulwich Hamlet FC, Surrey CCC


Views: 14099
Re: [Unicorn] THE Rangers FC or Reply Privately


In Reply To
Unicorn seems to feel that "big clubs" rule OK, should be accommodated regardless via something resembling a franchising system as long as there's a suitable stadium and ready made fanbase, and everyone else should just "know their place". Sadly a lot of people actually ru(i)nning the game seem to feel the same way. No point in trying to reason with someone like that, but we can certainly disagree with them.


No no no Richard.
I don't think they should be.
However they are.
I just don't care that they are.
Its the way of the world.

I dread to think how much worse the World would be if everyone simply resigned themselves to the fact that anything a bit too big and scary to contmplate was just "the way of the the World", rather than attempting to move mountains to change it: "Winston Churchill, Lech Walesa, Nelson Mandela, Mahatma Gandhi, your boys took a hell of a beating".


Unicorn
Chelsea Transfer Target

Jul 1, 2012, 6:01 AM

Posts: 3889
Location: Canterbury
Team(s): Arsenal and South Eastern Football


Views: 14045
Re: [Richard Watts] THE Rangers FC or Reply Privately


In Reply To

In Reply To
Unicorn seems to feel that "big clubs" rule OK, should be accommodated regardless via something resembling a franchising system as long as there's a suitable stadium and ready made fanbase, and everyone else should just "know their place". Sadly a lot of people actually ru(i)nning the game seem to feel the same way. No point in trying to reason with someone like that, but we can certainly disagree with them.


No no no Richard.
I don't think they should be.
However they are.
I just don't care that they are.
Its the way of the world.

I dread to think how much worse the World would be if everyone simply resigned themselves to the fact that anything a bit too big and scary to contmplate was just "the way of the the World", rather than attempting to move mountains to change it: "Winston Churchill, Lech Walesa, Nelson Mandela, Mahatma Gandhi, your boys took a hell of a beating".


Four great men indeed.
But it still does not alter the fact that the SFA only want Rangers to fall one division.


Unicorn
Chelsea Transfer Target

Jul 1, 2012, 8:01 AM

Posts: 3889
Location: Canterbury
Team(s): Arsenal and South Eastern Football


Views: 14015
Re: [Richard Watts] THE Rangers FC or Reply Privately

But i don't really see anything for anyone to stand against anyway.
The SFA want Rangers in the second tier.
They believe anything worse will cause financial meltdown and seriously damage Scottish football.
They are trying to convince the clubs that is the case.
If the clubs don't buy into that they will not vote it in.
So where is the problem.
Could it be more democratic than that?


Mister TwoU
First Team Star


Jul 1, 2012, 1:49 PM

Posts: 2497
Location: Back in hilly Malvern.
Team(s): Malvern Town FC


Views: 13894
Re: [Unicorn] THE Rangers FC or Reply Privately


In Reply To
But i don't really see anything for anyone to stand against anyway.
The SFA want Rangers in the second tier.
They believe anything worse will cause financial meltdown and seriously damage Scottish football.
They are trying to convince the clubs that is the case.
If the clubs don't buy into that they will not vote it in.
So where is the problem.
Could it be more democratic than that?


You have clearly misread the statement that has been released.

Basically, chaotically dressed-up as it is, that statement is a clear blackmail, ostensibly against SFL Divisions One and Two.

What it's saying is: If you don't swallow our (unproven) point(s) that accepting Newco. only in Division Three will wreak untold financial disaster upon all of Scottish Football - and therefore fail to act to tear-up the SFL constitution in order to elect Newco. straight into SFL Division One... We (SPL) will not only refuse to join with you (SFL) into a new unified league body (Scottish Professional Football League) per the SFA's wishes, we will in fact pull away further, creating a new SPL2 of twelve invited teams, which will no longer relegate to or allow promotion from the rump-18-teams left behind - who basically, can go to hell.

This IS NOT democracy. This is totalitarianism. The statement is worthy of the Pyongyang regime!

The SFL is caught in a serious dichotomy. On one hand, while pretty much all the points in the statement are unfounded (yet) in facts and the statement itself relies 70% or so on financial fortune-telling, it remains critically short in balance with both sporting integrity and particularly fans' wishes.
It's the latter that really forms the second tine of the forked-stick. It's becoming clear that Scottish fandom as a whole is unprepared to tolerate any further Newco. shenanigans and it would appear that even a parachute into SFL3 is considered lenient by many. If the SFL accedes to this SPL demand, the teams all risk alienating and raising the considerable ire of their own fans. Most polls among fanbases show 85+% antipathy to this SPL blackmail scheme.

As I see it, the only way out is for the SFA to actually bare its teeth and take control. First step - refusing to nominate ANY SPL1/SPL2 team for European competition and SFA Cup participation by revoking their SFA memberships.

Can't see that happening though.



Professional cretin.


Unicorn
Chelsea Transfer Target

Jul 1, 2012, 2:28 PM

Posts: 3889
Location: Canterbury
Team(s): Arsenal and South Eastern Football


Views: 13881
Re: [Mister TwoU] THE Rangers FC or Reply Privately


In Reply To

In Reply To
But i don't really see anything for anyone to stand against anyway.
The SFA want Rangers in the second tier.
They believe anything worse will cause financial meltdown and seriously damage Scottish football.
They are trying to convince the clubs that is the case.
If the clubs don't buy into that they will not vote it in.
So where is the problem.
Could it be more democratic than that?


You have clearly misread the statement that has been released.

Basically, chaotically dressed-up as it is, that statement is a clear blackmail, ostensibly against SFL Divisions One and Two.

What it's saying is: If you don't swallow our (unproven) point(s) that accepting Newco. only in Division Three will wreak untold financial disaster upon all of Scottish Football - and therefore fail to act to tear-up the SFL constitution in order to elect Newco. straight into SFL Division One... We (SPL) will not only refuse to join with you (SFL) into a new unified league body (Scottish Professional Football League) per the SFA's wishes, we will in fact pull away further, creating a new SPL2 of twelve invited teams, which will no longer relegate to or allow promotion from the rump-18-teams left behind - who basically, can go to hell.

This IS NOT democracy. This is totalitarianism. The statement is worthy of the Pyongyang regime!

The SFL is caught in a serious dichotomy. On one hand, while pretty much all the points in the statement are unfounded (yet) in facts and the statement itself relies 70% or so on financial fortune-telling, it remains critically short in balance with both sporting integrity and particularly fans' wishes.
It's the latter that really forms the second tine of the forked-stick. It's becoming clear that Scottish fandom as a whole is unprepared to tolerate any further Newco. shenanigans and it would appear that even a parachute into SFL3 is considered lenient by many. If the SFL accedes to this SPL demand, the teams all risk alienating and raising the considerable ire of their own fans. Most polls among fanbases show 85+% antipathy to this SPL blackmail scheme.

As I see it, the only way out is for the SFA to actually bare its teeth and take control. First step - refusing to nominate ANY SPL1/SPL2 team for European competition and SFA Cup participation by revoking their SFA memberships.

Can't see that happening though.


Actually i did not misread the SPL statement.
I have not even seen it .
My comments were about the original ideas of the SFA.
I did say that.

However the statement you refer to is interesting.
Can you give me a link to it please.


northstandexile
First Team Star

Jul 1, 2012, 2:39 PM

Posts: 1417
Location: Mansfield
Team(s): Mansfield Town


Views: 13869
Re: [Unicorn] THE Rangers FC or Reply Privately

Posted this somewhere else on the board but thought it might be appropriate here as well.


Been reading a number of articles on the Rangers situation and what about this as a solution.

As the season has nearly starter, I think it is too late to reprieve clubs so I would run SPL with only 11 clubs and have no relegation this coming season, thus creating a League 3 vacancy next summer.

As the new Rangers seem to have difficulty opening a bank account never mind hiring players, then I would let them try to organise friendlies for a year to see if they can prove to be able to operate as a club.

Next summer if they are still around then they can take they chance of being elected to SFL Div 3.

So what's wrong with this suggestion? Tongue


KIM TRUB
Reserve Team Regular

Jul 1, 2012, 2:49 PM

Posts: 614
Location:
Team(s):


Views: 13857
Re: [Unicorn] THE Rangers FC or Reply Privately

We could have a word with Pat & Fompous and see if we could have a section where people could just have a go at each other. What do you think?


Jaundiced Hack
First Team Star

Jul 1, 2012, 3:28 PM

Posts: 1660
Location:
Team(s):


Views: 13826
Re: [KIM TRUB] THE Rangers FC or

Might be a good time to remind everyone here that this is primarily a non-League website.......


D A
First Team Star


Jul 1, 2012, 3:33 PM

Posts: 1788
Location: Airstrip 1 , Oceania.
Team(s): Airstrip 1.


Views: 13819
Re: [Jaundiced Hack] THE Rangers FC or Reply Privately

They might be.



'I'm not cynical. I'm just experienced'.
29/11/2012. Anyone need numbers for Cheddar F C please p/m.


wishmaster3211
First Team Star


Jul 1, 2012, 11:06 PM

Posts: 2481
Location: A small town in Monmouthshire
Team(s): Calne Town, Darlington, Rosenborg, Sussex CCC, Huddersfield RL


Views: 13682
Re: [Jaundiced Hack] THE Rangers FC or Reply Privately


In Reply To
Might be a good time to remind everyone here that this is primarily a non-League website.......

n

The idea of the thread was to compare how Team 12 (the Team formerly known as Rangers) get treated compared to the likes of Rushden, Darlington and in the same country, Gretna.

I think thats working out quite interesting!

It would seem many in Scotland want them to become "non league" anyway!



"Run For the Hills Before They Burn"

Checkout my Facebook page "Proper Football Grounds"

facebook.com/paul.fergusson


leohoenig
Administrator

Jul 2, 2012, 7:32 AM

Posts: 13615
Location: Outer Cheltenhamshire
Team(s): Cheltenham Town


Views: 13634
Re: [wishmaster3211] THE Rangers FC or Reply Privately

One can argue that at this point in time Rangers are not a league team, they are also not a non-league team, but a team without league seeking admission.

Frankly, there is enough interest to generate over 300 posts on this section of the board, and 160+ for a parallel thread, so any moderator putting a stop to it is clearly running against the wishes of most of the board.



Fat AND Pompous.
The proof that you can have too much of a good thing
Now blogging at http://www.leohoenig.com



wishmaster3211
First Team Star


Jul 2, 2012, 9:23 AM

Posts: 2481
Location: A small town in Monmouthshire
Team(s): Calne Town, Darlington, Rosenborg, Sussex CCC, Huddersfield RL


Views: 13585
Re: [leohoenig] THE Rangers FC or Reply Privately

They are either a "not league" Team or perhaps not a Team at all. Id understand if the thread got moved but not sure where it would end up. A bit like Team 12 really then !!



"Run For the Hills Before They Burn"

Checkout my Facebook page "Proper Football Grounds"

facebook.com/paul.fergusson


ladderman
Man City Transfer Target!

Jul 2, 2012, 10:47 AM

Posts: 7426
Location: Bishop's Stortford
Team(s): Bishop's Stortford & Cambridge United


Views: 13545
Re: [wishmaster3211] THE Rangers FC or Reply Privately

Moving on from the "shall we talk about the subject" to actually talking about the subject, I do wonder what kind of state Rangers are in to actually start playing. A sizable chunk of their first team squad (11?) have walked, and as they only finished fifth in the reserve league last year, they don't appear to have a lot of depth. They can't really sign anyone until they know if they're in the second or fourth tier , and if they are in Division Three I imagine some of the players who haven't jumped ship will start to push for a move. I'm not saying they'd struggle in Div 1, but I'd fancy playing them early in the season - although as they play each other four times, everyone plays them fairly early.


Mister TwoU
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Jul 3, 2012, 3:52 PM

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Re: [ladderman] THE Rangers FC or Reply Privately

And then there were eight!

Falkirk, Raith Rovers and Morton have voiced their opposition to a Rangers newco joining them in Division One, while East Fife, Stranraer, Stirling Albion, Clyde and Peterhead have also gone public with their opposition.

There ain't going to be 75% in favour, that's for sure.

Just three more 'no's and there's no two-thirds majority, either!



Professional cretin.


ladderman
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Jul 3, 2012, 4:04 PM

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Re: [Mister TwoU] THE Rangers FC or Reply Privately

Oh no, I can feel the world coming to an end even as I type.

I think the election involves all SFL clubs, though, rather than just Div One - but it does look like they're starting in the bottom division.


Gareth
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Jul 3, 2012, 4:46 PM

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Re: [ladderman] THE Rangers FC or Reply Privately

So, if the SFL rejects Rangers application for Division 1, will the SPL chairmen stick to their guns and force them to start in Division 3, or will they bottle it and let them back into the SPL?

Apparently, if Rangers start in Div 3 it will cost Scottish football £16m. Luckily Rangers are prepared to help the other clubs out and would take the 12th spot in the SPL if offered.

Perhaps another club (Dundee/Dunfermline?) could put up £16m and buy their way into the SPL too? Just a thought. Tongue


(This post was edited by Gareth on Jul 3, 2012, 5:11 PM)


garethwrexy
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Jul 3, 2012, 5:16 PM

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Re: [Mister TwoU] THE Rangers FC or Reply Privately

needs to be sorted this situation.......



wrexham fc fa trophy winners 2013 !


philglossop
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Jul 3, 2012, 5:34 PM

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Re: [garethwrexy] THE Rangers FC or Reply Privately

Stranraer have declared a start in div 3 along with Stirling Albion.


philglossop
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Jul 3, 2012, 5:46 PM

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Team(s): Saltash United


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Re: [philglossop] THE Rangers FC or Reply Privately


In Reply To
Stranraer have declared a start in div 3 along with Stirling Albion.


This is bit like the Eurovision Song Contest or Election Night. Wheres David Dimbleby when you need him?

Alloa will vote on the decision of the fans
Queen of the South - no comment
Airdrie will abstain.
East Fife - No to 1st- apply to 3rd
Brechin - No comment
Partick Thistle - Yes to Div 1
Cowdenbeath- Heading towards Yes Div 1
Hamilton - Leaning towards Div 3
Falkirk - Leaning towards Div 3

All a bit messy! Over to you Peter Snow for the graphics Laugh


(This post was edited by philglossop on Jul 3, 2012, 5:48 PM)


philglossop
Reserve Team Sub

Jul 3, 2012, 5:51 PM

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Re: [philglossop] THE Rangers FC or Reply Privately

Meanwhile Stenhousemuir are looking for a recount (they have no position as no proposals have been given.)Laugh


PaulC
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Jul 3, 2012, 7:09 PM

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Re: [Mister TwoU] THE Rangers FC or Reply Privately

Airdrie Utd will abstain - conflict of interest. I'm not sure if an abstention is as good as a "no" - is it 75% of membership required, or 75% of votes?


Part-Timer
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Jul 3, 2012, 7:11 PM

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Re: [PaulC] THE Rangers FC or Reply Privately

It seems somewhat extraordinary that the SFL is voting on this before the SPL has decided whether to expel them.


leohoenig
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Jul 3, 2012, 7:19 PM

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Re: [Part-Timer] THE Rangers FC or Reply Privately

I thought the Premier Vote was tomorrow and the SFL vote (if required) next week.
They cannot be expelled as they are not members, they can only elected or not elected.



Fat AND Pompous.
The proof that you can have too much of a good thing
Now blogging at http://www.leohoenig.com



cope1
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Jul 3, 2012, 7:29 PM

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Re: [Part-Timer] THE Rangers FC or Reply Privately


In Reply To
It seems somewhat extraordinary that the SFL is voting on this before the SPL has decided whether to expel them.

But they're not actually voting on it are they? They're just telling everyone which way they'll vote when the time comes. At least, that's how I read it.


wishmaster3211
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Jul 3, 2012, 10:28 PM

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Views: 13545
Re: [leohoenig] THE Rangers FC or Reply Privately


In Reply To
I thought the Premier Vote was tomorrow and the SFL vote (if required) next week.
They cannot be expelled as they are not members, they can only elected or not elected.


True . But not how its been spun by the spl sfl and Charles Green. I mean who actually are they electing? There was an article on bbc scotland saying most versions of "rangers" are still owned by the old club



"Run For the Hills Before They Burn"

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ladderman
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Jul 3, 2012, 10:47 PM

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Re: [wishmaster3211] THE Rangers FC or Reply Privately

I'm sure there's a way Scottish could make a bigger pig's ear of this, but I'm struggling to see how.


prorege
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Jul 3, 2012, 10:49 PM

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Re: [wishmaster3211] THE Rangers FC or Reply Privately

SPL vote on whether to admit Rangers newco is supposed to be tomorrow.

Expect an adjournment with no vote taken.

Focus then back on SFL to see whether they will take then into Division 1.

Hopefully someone will soon have the guts to pull the trigger and finish them for good. They ahve been, after all, a permanent embarassment and a frequent shame to Scottish football.


hawkwind
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Jul 4, 2012, 12:09 AM

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Re: [prorege] THE Rangers FC or Reply Privately

Over 75% of Rangers fans in favour of playing in SFL3.

http://www.rangersfansfightingfund.com/


garethwrexy
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Jul 4, 2012, 9:21 AM

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Re: [hawkwind] THE Rangers FC or Reply Privately

looks like a long road back for the club then Unsure



wrexham fc fa trophy winners 2013 !


forestman
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Jul 4, 2012, 9:42 AM

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Re: [garethwrexy] THE Rangers FC or Reply Privately

Just as a point of note i seem to remember, several years ago in italy one of their biggest clubs Fiorentina went bust and the new club had to start again at the fourth level. Their now back in the top division so why should "new rangers" be any different.


prorege
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Jul 4, 2012, 9:50 AM

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Re: [garethwrexy] THE Rangers FC or Reply Privately


In Reply To
looks like a long road back for the club then Unsure


Not long enough.


wishmaster3211
First Team Star


Jul 4, 2012, 10:42 AM

Posts: 2481
Location: A small town in Monmouthshire
Team(s): Calne Town, Darlington, Rosenborg, Sussex CCC, Huddersfield RL


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Re: [prorege] THE Rangers FC or Reply Privately


In Reply To
SPL vote on whether to admit Rangers newco is supposed to be tomorrow.

Expect an adjournment with no vote taken.

Focus then back on SFL to see whether they will take then into Division 1.

Hopefully someone will soon have the guts to pull the trigger and finish them for good. They ahve been, after all, a permanent embarassment and a frequent shame to Scottish football.


From the interview I heard with Lancaster on R5 (very badly done by Nicky Campbell I might add considering he alleges to be a Jambo), nobody is going to have the guts and what you say above is right.

Id like to think someone like UEFA/FIFA might get involved as the blackmailing attitude of the SPL is outrageous and any fudge compromises the Europa League since Club 12 shouldnt be anywhere near it for years. The point is well made about Fiorentina for example.



"Run For the Hills Before They Burn"

Checkout my Facebook page "Proper Football Grounds"

facebook.com/paul.fergusson


Phil Townsend
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Jul 4, 2012, 11:02 AM

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Re: [philglossop] THE Rangers FC or Reply Privately

Where did you get the information that the Jags had agreed to Div 1 ?


A.G.Ricer
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Jul 4, 2012, 11:06 AM

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Re: [wishmaster3211] THE Rangers FC or Reply Privately

Neil Doncaster also did an interview on Radio 4 this morning. John Humphreys was surprisingly feeble , had no grip of the situation and let Doncaster off the hook - that's if he ever had him on it in the first place.
Doncaster's message was simple. Forget that Rangers ripped off their creditors (including HMRC) to the tune of £143 million and forget they cheated the other members of the SPL. The only issue is money and The SPL needs Rangers because they will bring in the money. If this is The SPL's view then the sooner it implodes the better.


charlieToogood
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Jul 4, 2012, 11:20 AM

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Re: [Gareth] THE Rangers FC or Reply Privately


In Reply To
Apparently, if Rangers start in Div 3 it will cost Scottish football £16m.

According to whom?

I'd happily bet £16 (not quite million) that someone with a Rangers involvement has been asked to throw as many theoretical figures together as possible to come up with a worst-case scenario so that they can stick that number in a press release somewhere, knowing full-well that the media absolutely love over-simplifications like that because it makes headlines easier.


stanley
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Jul 4, 2012, 11:29 AM

Posts: 14
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Team(s): Heart of Midlothian & Slough Town


Views: 13247
Re: [charlieToogood] THE Rangers FC or Reply Privately

They will lose a lot more if Rangers are allowed to get away with this. If Rangers get into the SPL (which I wouldn't rule out) then I, and many others, won't be back. I've not missed a home game for about ten years. I would go back if Hearts resigned from the SPL and joined the SFL but that's obviously not very likely. The effects of Rangers getting away with this will be long-lasting for Scottish football. I've gradually become more annoyed by the scaremongering from the press and the terrible way in which this situation has been handled by idiots like Neil Doncaster.


DonQuixote
Chelsea Transfer Target


Jul 4, 2012, 11:43 AM

Posts: 6045
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Views: 13235
Re: [stanley] THE Rangers FC or Reply Privately

I've followed this story since it first broke
and it seems that certain SPL member clubs have
only given Rangers the thumbs down because of boycott
threats from their respective fans.

If there had been little negativity from their main source
of income then The Huns would have been voted back in
quicker than a pre-match one and one in an Ibrox pub.

One wonders how the Premier League would react if a
similar scenario presented itself to say...Chelsea or Man Utd?




FA Vase semi programme wanted: 2001 Taunton v Clitheroe.



wishmaster3211
First Team Star


Jul 4, 2012, 11:52 AM

Posts: 2481
Location: A small town in Monmouthshire
Team(s): Calne Town, Darlington, Rosenborg, Sussex CCC, Huddersfield RL


Views: 13229
Re: [charlieToogood] THE Rangers FC or Reply Privately

What annoys me is the way he can quote this figure and experienced interviewers don't challenge it. I am sure the moment they went under it probably cost them their current TV deal so anything else is a bonus. The only thing that has cost Scottish Football is the mismanagement of Rangers. The story is getting tedious now I think even Sky are fed up with it.

Should prove a big boost for Junior football next season!



"Run For the Hills Before They Burn"

Checkout my Facebook page "Proper Football Grounds"

facebook.com/paul.fergusson


Gareth
Youth Team Sub

Jul 4, 2012, 12:06 PM

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Re: [charlieToogood] THE Rangers FC or Reply Privately


In Reply To
Apparently, if Rangers start in Div 3 it will cost Scottish football £16m.

According to whom?

I'd happily bet £16 (not quite million) that someone with a Rangers involvement has been asked to throw as many theoretical figures together as possible to come up with a worst-case scenario so that they can stick that number in a press release somewhere, knowing full-well that the media absolutely love over-simplifications like that because it makes headlines easier.
___________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

From the Guardian....

Longmuir's document stated that if the new Rangers were to begin in the Third Division, £16m, one year's TV money, would be lost, and the agreement by which the SPL pays the SFL £2m a season would be at "major risk."

David Longmuir is the SFL Chief Executive.

I agree that statements such as this are scaremongering bully boy tactics. The other one being circulated is that the SPL will create an SPL2 and invite Rangers to be part of it. In a parallel universe somewhere, all of the SFL clubs will refuse to join, but I don't think this would be the case in our one.


bomaya
First Team Star

Jul 4, 2012, 12:42 PM

Posts: 1581
Location: Merstham
Team(s): Merstham and Chelsea


Views: 14328
Re: [garethwrexy] THE Rangers FC or Reply Privately


In Reply To
looks like a long road back for the club then Unsure


Three years?


garethwrexy
Man City Transfer Target!

Jul 4, 2012, 1:17 PM

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Re: [Gareth] THE Rangers FC or Reply Privately

wonder what there average crowds will be next season, cant see many of there fans going every week.......



wrexham fc fa trophy winners 2013 !


ColtheJock
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Jul 4, 2012, 1:22 PM

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Re: [garethwrexy] THE Rangers FC or Reply Privately

Still all a complete and utter mess, with scare stories being circulated and first division cluns claiming that they are being bullied. The Hamilton Chairman, Les Gray put a statement on their website the other day saying until proposals where actually put on the table, it would be difficult for clubs to decide what is best. Most fans it seems do want Rangers to drop to Division three and start again, including Ranger's fans.

It needs to be resolved sooner rather than later, but delaying votes and maybe trying to persuade clubs to change their voting is another farce.

I was a Hamilton fan from 6-20 when my Uncle went with me.

Colin.

www.thamesmeadtownfc.co.uk



Colin M


wishmaster3211
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Jul 4, 2012, 2:16 PM

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Team(s): Calne Town, Darlington, Rosenborg, Sussex CCC, Huddersfield RL


Views: 14199
Re: [ColtheJock] THE Rangers FC or Reply Privately

Resolution part one :

"SPL Clubs voted overwhelmingly that "Rangers" wont be playing SPL football next season"

just reported on Sky.



"Run For the Hills Before They Burn"

Checkout my Facebook page "Proper Football Grounds"

facebook.com/paul.fergusson


ladderman
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Jul 4, 2012, 2:53 PM

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Re: [wishmaster3211] THE Rangers FC or Reply Privately

Now the real fun beginsWink


prorege
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Jul 4, 2012, 5:47 PM

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Re: [ladderman] THE Rangers FC or Reply Privately

There is no obligation for the SFLto allow one of its members to step up to the SPL at this late stage.

The agreement between SPL and SFL allows for one club to be promoted and one relegated each year. That's already happened.

So, there may be no vacancy in the Scottish League to be filled.

The feeling amongst SFL club chairmen is running so high, that this might be the outcome.

Adios Rangers / Sevco.


kentrebel
Youth Team Regular

Jul 4, 2012, 8:47 PM

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Re: [prorege] THE Rangers FC or Reply Privately

It's being reported by BBC that the vote was 10-1 against Newco with one abstention

Oh, and the vote for them was from...................

Newco Tongue


(This post was edited by kentrebel on Jul 4, 2012, 9:05 PM)


cool_hand_luke
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Jul 5, 2012, 7:45 AM

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Re: [ladderman] THE Rangers FC or Reply Privately


In Reply To
Moving on from the "shall we talk about the subject" to actually talking about the subject, I do wonder what kind of state Rangers are in to actually start playing. A sizable chunk of their first team squad (11?) have walked, and as they only finished fifth in the reserve league last year, they don't appear to have a lot of depth. They can't really sign anyone until they know if they're in the second or fourth tier , and if they are in Division Three I imagine some of the players who haven't jumped ship will start to push for a move. I'm not saying they'd struggle in Div 1, but I'd fancy playing them early in the season - although as they play each other four times, everyone plays them fairly early.




(This post was edited by cool_hand_luke on Jul 5, 2012, 7:50 AM)


cool_hand_luke
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Jul 5, 2012, 8:02 AM

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Re: [cool_hand_luke] THE Rangers FC or Reply Privately

Sporting intergity before money was upheld at Hampden yesterday. Killie fans have now launched a petition to sack their chairman for going against their wishes to vote no and then abstaining from the vote.


forestman
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Jul 5, 2012, 8:44 AM

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Re: [cool_hand_luke] THE Rangers FC or Reply Privately

Playing a bit as devils advocate here but perhaps "new rangers" should take a step back and say their not applying to enter the SFL this season. This would leave the way for the SPL to operate with 11 clubs for this season only while the SFL continues as normal. At the end of the season NO clubs relegated from SPL but 1 promoted with 1 down 2 up in the SFL divisions and "new rangers" entering Division 3 for 2013/14. This would not only make things clear as to what is happening this season but give "new rangers" a year to get their financial situation in order. Just a thought its not actually going to happen.


Dylan's Dad
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Jul 5, 2012, 8:44 AM

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Re: [cool_hand_luke] THE Rangers FC or Reply Privately

As far as I can tell, the argument that they should be allowed straight into SFL Div 1 is that it would cause irreparable harm if they were out of the SPL for more than one season. I'm sure it must be really motivational for all the other SFL1 teams to know that the authorities have basically already decided that if this happens Rangers have already won promotion......



La la la
La la la
Life is football
-- Robb Johnson


ladderman
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Jul 5, 2012, 9:28 AM

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Re: [forestman] THE Rangers FC or Reply Privately

But having made such a big deal about keeping the contracts of "old" Rangers' players, they have to pay them. So they may as well get Division Three out of the way - even if they trim the wage bill by selling/loaning out some of those that have stayed.

The SFL needs to get on with the vote, and Rangers need to get on with other fate is dealt them. It's no one's fault but their own.


cool_hand_luke
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Jul 5, 2012, 9:40 AM

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Re: [forestman] THE Rangers FC or Reply Privately

Their financial situation could not be better. £143m written off and currently have £11m investment waiting. Celtic have a debt of £35m with many of their fellow clubs having debts of £0.5m or so. Only one winner here.


ladderman
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Jul 5, 2012, 10:21 AM

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Re: [cool_hand_luke] THE Rangers FC or Reply Privately

To be fair to them (which hurtsCrazy) they have taken on some contracts that are going to cost them money, especially if they're in Division Three. They'll end up either loaning players out (and paying part of their wages) or paying players off. Never mind, eh?


ColtheJock
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Jul 5, 2012, 11:02 AM

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Team(s): No one now!!!!


Views: 13457
Re: [ladderman] THE Rangers FC or Reply Privately

Well the SFL Clubs meet next Thursday as I understand it, and the general consensus alreay seems to be the most of the 1st Division clubs are against Rangers coming straight into there. However, Stuart Regan, the SFA Chief Executive has been at it again with claims of the death of Scottish Football and the amount of money that will be lost if Ranger's are demoted down to the 3rd Division. In the end as I tweeted this morning, Ranger's should be happy to still be in existence and to have the opportunity to play wherever they end up. So another week of remours and counter-rumours to come before the vote to decide if they will accept them into the SFL. Wondering now what happens if they don't!!!!!!

Colin.

www.thamesmeadtownfc.co.uk



Colin M


bomaya
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Jul 5, 2012, 11:56 AM

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Views: 13413
Re: [ColtheJock] THE Rangers FC or Reply Privately

If they did start at Division Three, would there not be television interest in covering their games? I'd certainly tune in to see them play in some grounds that I might never see otherwise on tv. Therefore the money that some seem frightened of losing would still be in the game just at a lower level. Maybe some Div 3 clubs could use the money to improve and help themselves up the leagues. Then assuming Rangers go straight up, the same would happen in Div 2. Other than three straight years of Celtic winning the SPL fairly uncontested (probably) I can't really see a downside for Scottish football.

And surely some fans would quite enjoy the experience in a way. Do they not usually have a good travelling support?


Mister TwoU
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Jul 5, 2012, 12:11 PM

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Re: [bomaya] THE Rangers FC or Reply Privately


In Reply To
If they did start at Division Three, would there not be television interest in covering their games? I'd certainly tune in to see them play in some grounds that I might never see otherwise on tv. Therefore the money that some seem frightened of losing would still be in the game just at a lower level. Maybe some Div 3 clubs could use the money to improve and help themselves up the leagues. Then assuming Rangers go straight up, the same would happen in Div 2. Other than three straight years of Celtic winning the SPL fairly uncontested (probably) I can't really see a downside for Scottish football.

And surely some fans would quite enjoy the experience in a way. Do they not usually have a good travelling support?


Yes. Although many Gers' supporters have vowed to 'punish' the SFL by refusing to attend away games until they return to the SPL, if they're not immediately accepted into SFL1 - some 75% of their fans polled seem to want Rangers 'properly sanctioned' by being dropped into SFL3, and 'honestly' working-off their 'debt to Scottish football' by returning the hard-way, re-earning their place at the top-table through graft. Many have spoken out about then managing to have earned a 'full-set' of SFL/SPL titles, by the time they do get back - something quite unlikely ever to be repeated, and others have expressed much pleasure at the opportunity to see their team at new grounds they'd never have had the chance to do before!

While their away support may very well be much less than in the past, I can't imagine any teams in the SFL will be wringing their hands about the visits of Rangers in the coming seasons.



Professional cretin.


Mister TwoU
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Jul 5, 2012, 12:17 PM

Posts: 2497
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Re: [wishmaster3211] THE Rangers FC or Reply Privately


In Reply To
Resolution part one :

"SPL Clubs voted overwhelmingly that "Rangers" wont be playing SPL football next season"

just reported on Sky.


I see Killie fans are stark furious with their Chairman for his abstention from the vote - when the supporters were clear in their desre for a no-vote! It must be particularly hurting them as that was the only non-no vote cast, oviously apart from Rangers' own vote.

They're calling for him to resign - which hed better do, before they start calling for his head! lol



Professional cretin.


acmold
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Jul 5, 2012, 1:55 PM

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Team(s):


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Re: [bomaya] THE Rangers FC or


In Reply To
If they did start at Division Three, would there not be television interest in covering their games? I'd certainly tune in to see them play in some grounds that I might never see otherwise on tv. Therefore the money that some seem frightened of losing would still be in the game just at a lower level. Maybe some Div 3 clubs could use the money to improve and help themselves up the leagues. Then assuming Rangers go straight up, the same would happen in Div 2. Other than three straight years of Celtic winning the SPL fairly uncontested (probably) I can't really see a downside for Scottish football.

Don't the BBC hold the rights for the Scottish League and show games on BBC Alba.


IAN S
First Team Star

Jul 5, 2012, 2:33 PM

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Location: Stocksbridge, Sheffield
Team(s): Sheffield United, Sheffield Eagles, Kendal Town


Views: 13242
Re: [acmold] THE Rangers FC or Reply Privately

Surely an opportunity for some University or whatever to run a open university type course in gaelic.



We'll be, as we are, when all the fools who doubt us fade away.


wishmaster3211
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Jul 5, 2012, 3:29 PM

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Re: [IAN S] THE Rangers FC or Reply Privately

That would be priceless - Sevco fans having to watch games in Scots Gaelic!!



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Mike Blackstone
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Jul 5, 2012, 6:03 PM

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Re: [MOUNTAINEER] THE Rangers FC or Reply Privately

All this bleating about how Scottish Premier clubs would go into administration without Rangers as the TV revenue would be withdrawn. Well tough! Money is killing the sport. Lets get back to what it really is then - a game and run on a sound, sensible basis. Won't happen though. Too many ego trips chasing the holy grail.


garethwrexy
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Jul 5, 2012, 6:21 PM

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Re: [Mike Blackstone] THE Rangers FC or Reply Privately

didnt celtic have money troubles back in 1994 ?



wrexham fc fa trophy winners 2013 !


PaulC
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Jul 5, 2012, 8:07 PM

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Re: [Mister TwoU] THE Rangers FC or Reply Privately

Stenhousemuir statement - they favour Division One for Rangers.

http://www.stenhousemuirfc.com/news/2012/07/05/790/


(This post was edited by PaulC on Jul 5, 2012, 8:09 PM)


Newquay_Loyal
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Jul 5, 2012, 8:20 PM

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Re: [PaulC] THE Rangers FC or Reply Privately

SPL have no choice now, the SFL and SFA do. I would kick them out altogether and force them into Junior leagues.


PaulC
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Jul 5, 2012, 8:44 PM

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Re: [Newquay_Loyal] THE Rangers FC or Reply Privately

Sammarinese Smile


cool_hand_luke
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Jul 6, 2012, 6:31 AM

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Re: [garethwrexy] THE Rangers FC or Reply Privately


In Reply To
didnt celtic have money troubles back in 1994 ?

Celtic did indeed have serious money problems in 1994. A family called the Kelly's had main control over the club and due to lack of investment and a 'biscuit tin' mentality the ground and team had little investment. In a bitter battle of power Fegus Mc Cann seized control of the club that year and launched the most successful ever take up of club shares when 20,000 supporters parted with £620 to buy a piece of their club. This raised £14m with McCann putting in another £10m redevelopment of the ground could commence. Five years later the team landed the SLP title preventing Rangers from making a historic 10 in a row. The next season McCann unfurled the champions flag at Celtic Park and unbelievably was booed by sections of the crowd. With McCanns job done he departed back to Canada having sold his shares for around £40m. He originally made his money in the golf leisure market.

Further reading here:
http://www.talkceltic.net/forum/showthread.php?t=114503


(This post was edited by cool_hand_luke on Jul 6, 2012, 8:46 AM)


Mr. T
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Jul 6, 2012, 8:48 AM

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Re: [wishmaster3211] THE Rangers FC or Reply Privately

This was the subject of this morning's Radio 5 shout-in.

Was Peter from Stamford, who suggested New Rangers apply to join the English pyramid, one of ours?


(This post was edited by Mr. T on Jul 6, 2012, 10:26 AM)


wishmaster3211
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Jul 6, 2012, 1:13 PM

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Re: [Mr. T] THE Rangers FC or Reply Privately


In Reply To
This was the subject of this morning's Radio 5 shout-in.

Was Peter from Stamford, who suggested New Rangers apply to join the English pyramid, one of ours?


Though i missed most of this as i was still asleep i did hear some sfa/spl nob yet again going unchallenged making assertions about the end of Scottish football. Presumably this will happen anyway as Rangers or whstever they are known only havd six players and cant sign any acc to their manager.



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Mr. T
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Jul 6, 2012, 1:21 PM

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Re: [wishmaster3211] THE Rangers FC or Reply Privately

It was the (ex-?) Celtic director who made me chuckle when he sympathised with Ally McCoist's plight of having only six players:
"Of course that makes life difficult for Mr McCoist. He needs seven to make a match..." and continued seamlessly without a pause for applause.

Go to the R5 website to listen (available for seven days).


(This post was edited by Mr. T on Jul 6, 2012, 1:23 PM)


Richard Watts
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Jul 6, 2012, 1:45 PM

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Re: [Mr. T] THE Rangers FC or Reply Privately

The whole thing just becomes more and more of a farce. We had the SPL meeting on Wednesday, as which it was finally established that Rangers would not play in this season's SPL. Would it not have been sensible to decide who (if anyone) replaces them at the same meeting? The first round of league matches is little more than a month away and several clubs are still unsure which division they will play in. I'm sure the clubs that were relegated last season will have offloaded some of their better players / higher earners, yet they may still be reinstated at the level from which they've just been relegated. How are these clubs supposed to build a squad or plan a budget properly?


Ryburnian
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Jul 6, 2012, 2:19 PM

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Re: [Richard Watts] THE Rangers FC or Reply Privately

Presumably the SPL could have reprieved Dumbarton. If they wanted to promote Dundee they would need the SFL to release them and they are not meeting until next Thursday.

And as Prorege points out, if neither of those things happen, there won't be a vacancy for newRangers to apply for.


grandad
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Jul 6, 2012, 2:23 PM

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Re: [Ryburnian] THE Rangers FC or Reply Privately

Assume you mean Dunfermline? Dumbarton would love to have been in SPL.



Once a Rebel, Always a Rebel


Ryburnian
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Jul 6, 2012, 2:32 PM

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Re: [grandad] THE Rangers FC or Reply Privately

Yes of course.


Oxford Stone
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Jul 6, 2012, 3:11 PM

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Re: [Ryburnian] THE Rangers FC or Reply Privately

Worth reading BBC stories from yesterday - Dundee advised they will not be allowed to vote next Friday on Rangers' fate - implying that they are getting promoted?; McCoist's own opinions on starting from Div 3 (it's a massive drop but let's just get on and have a fresh start + it's what the fans want)

I'll stick with my prediction that they go to Div 3, but then a restructuring for 2013/14 takes them from Div 3 to a Div 1 W and they'll only have two years out of the SPL.


Ryburnian
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Jul 6, 2012, 3:34 PM

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Re: [Oxford Stone] THE Rangers FC or Reply Privately

I agree with your prediction that newRangers will join Div 3. So far this saga has been a victory for democracy, due process, and clubs/leagues being forced to listen to the people who pay for them.

I can see no reason why they would oppose Rangers entering Div 3, but surely pressure is being applied by the fans to vote against parachuting newco in higher up.

Not sure about the restructure. Clubs have been opposed previously, and they seem now able to assert themselves against the SFA's wishes.


Oxford Stone
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Jul 6, 2012, 3:43 PM

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Re: [Ryburnian] THE Rangers FC or Reply Privately

I'm not sure how the typical fan of a Scottish non Old Firm team feels about the current structure?

Pros: chance to go up and down the leagues on merit, as a lot of teams have, with a lot of different league opposition each season; Cons: playing each team 4 times a season, plus the stagnation at the bottom of Div 3. Though I think Even E Stirlingshire have had a pop at the playoffs, the bottom half of the table must become meaningless quite quickly with no danger of relegation.

Are Junior and other non-league sides itching to get into the SFL or not really bothered? Would it lead to the same level of over-reaching and liquidation that we've seen in England with the Conference?

(And see my letter in When Saturday Comes from about 8 months ago...)


wishmaster3211
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Jul 6, 2012, 4:09 PM

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Re: [Oxford Stone] THE Rangers FC or Reply Privately

I also kind of expect them to be put in D3 then a re-org at the end of the season making it two divisions and a larger SPL. The way McCoist was talking Rangers wouldn't be getting promoted out of D1 anyway, I mean having only 6 players and not being able to sign any this close to the start of the season is going to hamper them a bit!

But of course according to Doncaster that would mean "the end of Scottish Football", so who knows? I suppose thats why he wants SPL2, as that means they can fester in the lower reaches of D1 building a team while the SPL still get the TV money....



"Run For the Hills Before They Burn"

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Ryburnian
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Jul 6, 2012, 4:39 PM

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Re: [wishmaster3211] THE Rangers FC or Reply Privately

....naturally. Far from being the death of Scottish football, it feels to me like the very early stirrings of a rebirth, ie it died years ago.

I heard one of them on the radio saying that Motherwell get a third of their income from TV, so would be fools to jeopardize that. Well dumbass, that means they get two thirds from somewhere else, ie their supporters, who are making a very real threat to disappear.

Also, I haven't heard Sky say that they'll withdraw anyway. Perhaps more people will watch a 'competition' whose outcome isn't predetermined.


(This post was edited by Ryburnian on Jul 6, 2012, 4:46 PM)


Mister TwoU
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Jul 6, 2012, 6:43 PM

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Re: [Ryburnian] THE Rangers FC or Reply Privately

Personally, I'm agreeing with previous posts, expecting Newco. to be told it's Division Three for them, followed immediately by the threatened SFA/SPL fudge of an SPL2 being suddenly created.

I'd hope that SFL would stick together and all members refuse invitation to make-up this bastard division, but think SFA will strong-arm with crippling sanctions and ultimately win-the-day. Shame the SFL couldn't threaten an en-masse defection to the SJFA as a counter-ploy!

I'd like to see SFA faces when their whole league is threatened to be reduced to a sterile dozen!



Professional cretin.


cope1
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Jul 6, 2012, 8:10 PM

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Re: [wishmaster3211] THE Rangers FC or Reply Privately

I'd be more than happy to see a restructure which aids Rangers return to the big time if it actually meant the structure in general was improved.

The malaise from the Juniors surely stems from their perception that the senior game isn't worth much. If a proper pyramid was setup which meant the higher leagues were worth fighting to reach it would make a difference.

I know this is going off topic, but can anyone tell me if one of the reasons for the Juniors' reluctance to join the senior club is that there are more stringent ground grading and facilities requirements to be met?


Veteran
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Jul 6, 2012, 9:41 PM

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Re: [cope1] THE Rangers FC or

If you're talking about the non-league "seniors" - hardly the case. Several grounds in both the EOS and SOS are basically open public parks and would get nowhere near the fairly basic Junior requirements - of an enclosed playing area for instance.

I had it explained to me once that the reason so very few Dutch Amateur teams seek progress into the Dutch league is that they prefer the level they are at, with regular local derbies etc. and I think the same applies to many of the Junior clubs. Their maximum progression potential is probably equivalent of Div 2 and they see little benefit in going for that and giving up the chance to kick sh*t out of local rivals several times a season.


Veteran
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Jul 6, 2012, 9:45 PM

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Re: [cope1] THE Rangers FC or

And getting back on topic, if the SFL have a vacancy as a consequence of Dundee or Dunfermline moving into the SPL, shouldn't they open it up to applications from other interested clubs - e. g. Spartans ? They could then contrast a Newco with no track record, just a predecessor's history of financial disaster, with established clubs who are keen to join the League and have "served their time".


prorege
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Jul 7, 2012, 9:03 AM

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Re: [cope1] THE Rangers FC or Reply Privately


In Reply To
I know this is going off topic, but can anyone tell me if one of the reasons for the Juniors' reluctance to join the senior club is that there are more stringent ground grading and facilities requirements to be met?



That certainly puts Junior clubs off from wanting to step up. Junior football is mainly played in rather outdated but fully enclosed grounds- think English non-league in the 1960s, but without the seats and floodlights.

Costs are kept to a minimum - even for big Cup ties hundreds of spectators there will be no stewarding or policing. Admission is never more than around £6 with £3 for concessions.

Drinking in grounds is commonplace and largely ignored.

The 2-month spell of midweek fixtures in May / June is enjoyed by most people - it's like Summer football without having to change the season.

With the 3-region set up travel is kept to a reasonable level - nobody will have to go more than two hours for a game and most are within 45 minutes. No floodlights means no silly midwek games scheduled for the depths of winter.

Why would anyone want to step up to Division 3 of the SFL? £10 admission as a minimum; stewarding required; segregation required; trips to Stranraer, Annan, Berwick, Montrose and Elgin; few local derbies; floodlights required; midweek games in winter; season finished at the end of April, just when the weather might get better; no bevvy in grounds.


acmold
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Jul 7, 2012, 9:26 AM

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Re: [prorege] THE Rangers FC or


In Reply To
That certainly puts Junior clubs off from wanting to step up. Junior football is mainly played in rather outdated but fully enclosed grounds- think English non-league in the 1960s, but without the seats and floodlights.

Costs are kept to a minimum - even for big Cup ties hundreds of spectators there will be no stewarding or policing. Admission is never more than around £6 with £3 for concessions.

Drinking in grounds is commonplace and largely ignored.

The 2-month spell of midweek fixtures in May / June is enjoyed by most people - it's like Summer football without having to change the season.

With the 3-region set up travel is kept to a reasonable level - nobody will have to go more than two hours for a game and most are within 45 minutes. No floodlights means no silly midwek games scheduled for the depths of winter.

Why would anyone want to step up to Division 3 of the SFL? £10 admission as a minimum; stewarding required; segregation required; trips to Stranraer, Annan, Berwick, Montrose and Elgin; few local derbies; floodlights required; midweek games in winter; season finished at the end of April, just when the weather might get better; no bevvy in grounds.


One or two on this board must have read the last post with horror, the must take promotion at all cost posters, the anti Northern League brigade. What would happen to football in general if everyone took Scottish Junior approach. Playing at an exceptable level getting crowds with minimal expenses. Not trying to progress not trying to overspend, living within their means. Not travelling hundreds of miles to play in front of small crowds. Whatever next we might have an outbreak of commonsense.


cope1
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Jul 7, 2012, 1:06 PM

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Re: [prorege] THE Rangers FC or Reply Privately

Thanks for the info. I'd agree - can't see why anyone would want to switch.

Is there a reason more seniors don't play junior then, with all that in mind?


garethwrexy
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Jul 7, 2012, 1:09 PM

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Re: [cope1] THE Rangers FC or Reply Privately

how long do people think, it will take rangers to rebuild, myself think 7 years,



wrexham fc fa trophy winners 2013 !


wishmaster3211
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Re: [garethwrexy] THE Rangers FC or Reply Privately