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The Brexit Tharead Mark 3

 



steve walker
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Oct 16, 2019, 9:21 PM

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The Brexit Tharead Mark 3 Can't Post or Reply Privately

I can't get the previous thread to update in the index. No idea why.
So here is a new one. The two old threads are still there and searchable, nothing has been lost.
Please do not take your inspiration from the House of Commons... keep discussion civil and respectful.

I would like this thread to be informative rather than argumentative. Obviously there are different points of view but please express them without denegrating anyone who has a different opinion to your own.
Most of the arguments on the old threads just go round and round in circles and are completely pointless. If you oppose what someone says please don't think it's your duty to post a response even if you have nothing new to say. Let people read the thread and they will make up their own minds, that is far more powerful, you are not going to change the mind of the poster you are arguing with.
Please don't post links or images as a post unless you express an opinion to go with them. If we want that will stick to Facebook or Twitter.
Thanks.... Steve


northstandexile
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Oct 16, 2019, 11:34 PM

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Re: [steve walker] The Brexit Tharead Mark 3 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

Will Boris throw the DUP under the bus, and does it matter if he does?


Ronsdog
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Oct 17, 2019, 12:45 AM

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In Reply To
Will Boris throw the DUP under the bus, and does it matter if he does?



All that really matters to Boris is securing their 10 votes in any upcoming parliamentary divisions!


007Dale
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Oct 17, 2019, 5:20 AM

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In Reply To
Will Boris throw the DUP under the bus, and does it matter if he does?


Boris canít afford to throw the DUP under a bus - he needs their votes. Also, a number of ERG Tories will link their support to DUP position.


PaulC
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Oct 17, 2019, 9:54 AM

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Re: [007Dale] The Brexit Tharead Mark 3 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

"I will never create a border down the Irish sea" says man creating border down the Irish sea.


PaulC
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Oct 17, 2019, 9:56 AM

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In Reply To

In Reply To
Will Boris throw the DUP under the bus, and does it matter if he does?



All that really matters to Boris is securing their 10 votes in any upcoming parliamentary divisions!


Everyone has their price. In the DUP's case about £10 billion of UK taxpayers' money


007Dale
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Oct 17, 2019, 11:14 AM

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In Reply To
"I will never create a border down the Irish sea" says man creating border down the Irish sea.


But according to remainers, Boris wasnít serious about getting a deal.

Now he has a deal, they need to criticise him for it.

Shame it wonít get through Parliament though.


hawkwind
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Oct 17, 2019, 12:54 PM

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Re: [steve walker] The Brexit Tharead Mark 3 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

Documents for information.

Withdrawal Agreement November 2018

Political Declaration November 2018

Clarification Political Declaration March 2019

Modifications Withdrawal Agreement October 2019

Political Declaration October 2019

(This post was edited by hawkwind on Oct 17, 2019, 12:55 PM)


007Dale
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Oct 17, 2019, 2:42 PM

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Re: [hawkwind] The Brexit Tharead Mark 3 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

Junker has said there will be no extension.

It really is Noel Edmonds time for Parliament...


derekn
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Oct 17, 2019, 4:11 PM

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Re: [007Dale] The Brexit Tharead Mark 3 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

But it's not his decision, it's up to the 27 member countries.


jon b
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Oct 17, 2019, 5:04 PM

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In Reply To
Junker has said there will be no extension.

It really is Noel Edmonds time for Parliament...


Do you mean his suicide attempt or his prostate cancer?

.


Yatesman
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Oct 17, 2019, 7:37 PM

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Re: [PaulC] The Brexit Tharead Mark 3 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


In Reply To
"I will never create a border down the Irish sea" says man creating border down the Irish sea.


He's changed his mind ......... One of the classic signs of a higher intelligence.

I would like to say that the LieDumbs showed the same virtue when they decided to increase Tuition Fees when they pledged to Never increase Tuition Fees and when they voted for Austerity when they pledged to never facilitate Austerity but I can't.......It was just the craven lust forand pursuit of power for it's own sake that caused the LieDumbs to totally renege on their promises.

At least Boris has altered the nature of the Irish Sea Border to better facilitate a cleaner Brexit!


Yatesman
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Oct 17, 2019, 7:42 PM

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In Reply To

In Reply To

In Reply To
Will Boris throw the DUP under the bus, and does it matter if he does?



All that really matters to Boris is securing their 10 votes in any upcoming parliamentary divisions!


Everyone has their price. In the DUP's case about £10 billion of UK taxpayers' money


I've not heard that but I do know the divorce bill is now a realistic £33 billion not the £89 billion the Remainers wanted the UK to pay.

Within that context, if NI ( not the DUP) gets £10 billion that's money well spent.


jon b
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Oct 17, 2019, 9:03 PM

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Re: [Yatesman] The Brexit Tharead Mark 3 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

Johnson is a shallow thinker and congenital liar. He's been sacked from at least two jobs for lying.

Having said that, he's fortunate in the poor quality of the leaders of the opposition parties. Corbyn is even more utterly unfit to be PM than Johnson, Swinson is out of her depth and Blackford is a windbag.

Saturday could be a complete farce.

.


jrev61
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Oct 17, 2019, 10:29 PM

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Re: [jon b] The Brexit Tharead Mark 3 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

Is anyone else getting an advert for a Romanian politician under the last posting in this thread (or should that be Tharead)?Smile



jrev61


jon b
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Oct 19, 2019, 3:00 PM

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In Reply To

Saturday could be a complete farce.

.


Frown


leohoenig
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Oct 19, 2019, 4:07 PM

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Post #17 of 143 (5081 views)
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Re: [jon b] The Brexit Tharead Mark 3 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


In Reply To

In Reply To

Saturday could be a complete farce.

.


Frown


Good to see some accurate prediction here!

And so, Johnson is now insisting that the law does not compel him to obey the law.



Fat AND Pompous.
The proof that you can have too much of a good thing
Now blogging at http://www.leohoenig.com



kirby knitters
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Oct 19, 2019, 5:42 PM

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Re: [leohoenig] The Brexit Tharead Mark 3 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


In Reply To

In Reply To

In Reply To

Saturday could be a complete farce.

.


Frown


Good to see some accurate prediction here!

And so, Johnson is now insisting that the law does not compel him to obey the law.

Just deliver on the result of the referendum!! The public are sick of it, and so are the EU.


PaulC
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Oct 19, 2019, 6:00 PM

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In Reply To
Just deliver on the result of the referendum!! The public are sick of it, and so are the EU.


Johnson comes back with a deal. Presents no economic assessment, does his best to prevent parliament from scrutinising and parliament quite rightly says "hold on".

You would take more care buying a used car than Johnson wanted parliament to take over his new worse deal.

The public may be sick of it, but that is no reason for parliament to abrogate its responsiblilities to the nation.


kirby knitters
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Oct 19, 2019, 6:07 PM

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Re: [PaulC] The Brexit Tharead Mark 3 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

So what happens now IF he goes to the EU asking for an extension and they refuse?


007Dale
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Oct 19, 2019, 6:20 PM

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In Reply To
So what happens now IF he goes to the EU asking for an extension and they refuse?


We leave without a deal on the 31st October.

And Letwin looks like an idiot as we could have had a deal.


(This post was edited by 007Dale on Oct 19, 2019, 6:20 PM)


Yatesman
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Oct 19, 2019, 10:40 PM

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Post #22 of 143 (4882 views)
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Re: [PaulC] The Brexit Tharead Mark 3 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


In Reply To

In Reply To
Just deliver on the result of the referendum!! The public are sick of it, and so are the EU.


Johnson comes back with a deal. Presents no economic assessment, does his best to prevent parliament from scrutinising and parliament quite rightly says "hold on".

You would take more care buying a used car than Johnson wanted parliament to take over his new worse deal.

The public may be sick of it, but that is no reason for parliament to abrogate its responsiblilities to the nation.


Like Parliament will make a fair and reasoned assessment............That is like Wishing for Unicorns!

I don't see how a deal that gives the UK more freedom from the EU than May's deal is a worse deal.

Parliament's most important responsibility to the nation is to uphold Democracy by delivering on the result of a national plebiscite in a timely fashion......Epic Fail on that score.

Time for a GE !


PaulC
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Oct 19, 2019, 10:44 PM

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Yatesman
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Oct 19, 2019, 11:59 PM

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In Reply To


Adds precisely Zilch to the discussion........Nothing new there!


PaulC
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Oct 20, 2019, 8:17 AM

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In Reply To

In Reply To


Adds precisely Zilch to the discussion........Nothing new there!


Shall I explain it to you?


007Dale
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Oct 20, 2019, 9:37 AM

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Re: [007Dale] The Brexit Tharead Mark 3 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

John McDonnell:

ďLabour will win the General Election.Ē


PaulC
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Oct 20, 2019, 9:40 AM

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Amendment to Bill calling for referendum on Johnson's deal to be sought next week,


leohoenig
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Oct 20, 2019, 11:06 AM

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Re: [PaulC] The Brexit Tharead Mark 3 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

That comes with the risk of Johnson actually winning a vote in Parliament



Fat AND Pompous.
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Now blogging at http://www.leohoenig.com



Yatesman
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Oct 20, 2019, 9:13 PM

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Re: [PaulC] The Brexit Tharead Mark 3 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


In Reply To
Amendment to Bill calling for referendum on Johnson's deal to be sought next week,


Gov't looking at using a Presentation Bill to be the UK version of the USA's Logan Act to outlaw colluding with foreign powers to undermine official UK Gov't negotiations.

Not sure if the intention is to allow it to be retrospective.

Bercow announcement tomorrow........The irksome weasel will probably cancel his resignation.

SNP pushing for an amendment to extend A50 for a GE.


(This post was edited by Yatesman on Oct 20, 2019, 9:31 PM)


jon b
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Not sure if the intention is to allow it to be retrospective.


Making something retrospectively a criminal offence? Really?! Cool

You sure you've done nothing that a government of either far Left or far Right might decide to criminalise?

.


paulh66
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Oct 21, 2019, 12:04 PM

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Johnson is a shallow thinker and congenital liar. He's been sacked from at least two jobs for lying.

Having said that, he's fortunate in the poor quality of the leaders of the opposition parties. Corbyn is even more utterly unfit to be PM than Johnson, Swinson is out of her depth and Blackford is a windbag.


From what we've seen over the last three years and looking at that array of 'talent' to take us forward, maybe any future referendum should offer us a third option - leave, remain or scrap parliament altogether and go for direct rule from Europe.. Tongue


PaulC
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Oct 21, 2019, 12:50 PM

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In Reply To

In Reply To
Johnson is a shallow thinker and congenital liar. He's been sacked from at least two jobs for lying.

Having said that, he's fortunate in the poor quality of the leaders of the opposition parties. Corbyn is even more utterly unfit to be PM than Johnson, Swinson is out of her depth and Blackford is a windbag.


From what we've seen over the last three years and looking at that array of 'talent' to take us forward, maybe any future referendum should offer us a third option - leave, remain or scrap parliament altogether and go for direct rule from Euroupe.. Tongue


At least we would be assured a centrist social democratic rule rather than rule by right wing extremists set on dismantling our social wealth and handing it to Trumpís pals and pursuing a race to the bottom in terms of workersí rights and wages and environmental standards.


007Dale
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Oct 21, 2019, 1:09 PM

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In Reply To

In Reply To

In Reply To
Johnson is a shallow thinker and congenital liar. He's been sacked from at least two jobs for lying.

Having said that, he's fortunate in the poor quality of the leaders of the opposition parties. Corbyn is even more utterly unfit to be PM than Johnson, Swinson is out of her depth and Blackford is a windbag.



From what we've seen over the last three years and looking at that array of 'talent' to take us forward, maybe any future referendum should offer us a third option - leave, remain or scrap parliament altogether and go for direct rule from Euroupe.. Tongue


At least we would be assured a centrist social democratic rule rather than rule by right wing extremists set on dismantling our social wealth and handing it to Trumpís pals and pursuing a race to the bottom in terms of workersí rights and wages and environmental standards.


You mean we should dismantle the UK Parliament because you donít like the type of Governments the British people elect?

Interesting approach to democracy, but then I suppose that goes with territory when trying to ignore various referendum results.


paulh66
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Oct 21, 2019, 1:10 PM

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Re: [PaulC] The Brexit Tharead Mark 3 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

Issues of social wealth, workers' rights and wages and environmental standards etc would be determined by the government/parliament of the day. I doubt any party standing on a ticket to neglect all of that would sway the electorate in a general election.


jon b
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In Reply To

Bercow announcement tomorrow........The irksome weasel will probably cancel his resignation.


I think we can guess who will be burnt in effigy on Tory Brexiters' bonfires this year.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/...uk-politics-50128740

.


PaulC
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Oct 21, 2019, 4:42 PM

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In Reply To

In Reply To

In Reply To

In Reply To
Johnson is a shallow thinker and congenital liar. He's been sacked from at least two jobs for lying.

Having said that, he's fortunate in the poor quality of the leaders of the opposition parties. Corbyn is even more utterly unfit to be PM than Johnson, Swinson is out of her depth and Blackford is a windbag.



From what we've seen over the last three years and looking at that array of 'talent' to take us forward, maybe any future referendum should offer us a third option - leave, remain or scrap parliament altogether and go for direct rule from Euroupe.. Tongue


At least we would be assured a centrist social democratic rule rather than rule by right wing extremists set on dismantling our social wealth and handing it to Trumpís pals and pursuing a race to the bottom in terms of workersí rights and wages and environmental standards.


You mean we should dismantle the UK Parliament because you donít like the type of Governments the British people elect?

Interesting approach to democracy, but then I suppose that goes with territory when trying to ignore various referendum results.


No, I mean I prefer social democratic rule to the kind of extremist right wing government the people of England continue to elect and impose on the rest of the UK.


PaulC
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Oct 21, 2019, 4:43 PM

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Issues of social wealth, workers' rights and wages and environmental standards etc would be determined by the government/parliament of the day. I doubt any party standing on a ticket to neglect all of that would sway the electorate in a general election.

Such a party currently has a substantial lead in England, according to the polls.


Yatesman
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Oct 21, 2019, 6:57 PM

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In Reply To

In Reply To

In Reply To

In Reply To

In Reply To
Johnson is a shallow thinker and congenital liar. He's been sacked from at least two jobs for lying.

Having said that, he's fortunate in the poor quality of the leaders of the opposition parties. Corbyn is even more utterly unfit to be PM than Johnson, Swinson is out of her depth and Blackford is a windbag.



From what we've seen over the last three years and looking at that array of 'talent' to take us forward, maybe any future referendum should offer us a third option - leave, remain or scrap parliament altogether and go for direct rule from Euroupe.. Tongue


At least we would be assured a centrist social democratic rule rather than rule by right wing extremists set on dismantling our social wealth and handing it to Trumpís pals and pursuing a race to the bottom in terms of workersí rights and wages and environmental standards.


You mean we should dismantle the UK Parliament because you donít like the type of Governments the British people elect?

Interesting approach to democracy, but then I suppose that goes with territory when trying to ignore various referendum results.


No, I mean I prefer social democratic rule to the kind of extremist right wing government the people of England continue to elect and impose on the rest of the UK.


I think your understanding of right wing extremism is a whole lot different to the vast majority of the population.

Liberal extremism , such as you seem to advocate, rewards elites and penalises individualism. It stifles creativity, freedom of expression and free thinking.
It warehouses millions in to sub-standard social housing living off inadequate benefits.
It allows the rich and priviliged to deny Democratic elections and use their wealth to mount vexatious legal proceedings.

There is no evidence that any Tory Govt would reduce rights and much evidence that free from unaccountable and distant legislative bodies it would be free , as would any UK Gov't', to set much improved standards.

Uk law is already far superior than EU rulings on Sick Pay, Holiday Pay, Minimum Wages, Maternity Leave.

The Equality Act, Sexual Discrimination Act, Domestic Violence Act, Employment Protection Act all passed without EU involvement

Equal Pay Act, Abortion Act and others all passed before we were in the EU

Healthcare in the EU is a shocking mish mash of second rate state provision and insurance based Private services.......Great for the Elites, not so good for the Hoi Polloi.

Not as good as the UK NHS which was created WITHOUT ANY HELP FROM THE EU!!!!

Your take on politics and democracy is pretty twisted if you think social democracy does anything other than concentrate power , money and influence in a cosseted and protected middle class elite.


Yatesman
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Oct 21, 2019, 7:02 PM

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In Reply To

In Reply To

Not sure if the intention is to allow it to be retrospective.


Making something retrospectively a criminal offence? Really?! Cool

You sure you've done nothing that a government of either far Left or far Right might decide to criminalise?

.


The precedent was set by the Supreme Court who made up a rule on the hoof then backdated it...........

And yes, I have done plenty an extreme lefty mob would criminalise.........like BREATHE, THINK, VOTE !


PaulC
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Oct 21, 2019, 7:06 PM

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In Reply To

In Reply To
Amendment to Bill calling for referendum on Johnson's deal to be sought next week,


Gov't looking at using a Presentation Bill to be the UK version of the USA's Logan Act to outlaw colluding with foreign powers to undermine official UK Gov't negotiations.

Not sure if the intention is to allow it to be retrospective


Hereís the first of the traitors, bonkers Tory Brexiteer Daniel Kawczynski, MP for Shrewsbury

ďAs almost fluent Polish speaker I am doing all I can can to convince Polish govenemt to veto extension of Article 50.Others working on Czechs and Hungarians. One of these will veto I predictĒ


(This post was edited by PaulC on Oct 21, 2019, 7:07 PM)


Yatesman
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Oct 21, 2019, 7:55 PM

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Amendment to Bill calling for referendum on Johnson's deal to be sought next week,


Gov't looking at using a Presentation Bill to be the UK version of the USA's Logan Act to outlaw colluding with foreign powers to undermine official UK Gov't negotiations.

Not sure if the intention is to allow it to be retrospective


Hereís the first of the traitors, bonkers Tory Brexiteer Daniel Kawczynski, MP for Shrewsbury

ďAs almost fluent Polish speaker I am doing all I can can to convince Polish govenemt to veto extension of Article 50.Others working on Czechs and Hungarians. One of these will veto I predictĒ


Oh dear, you really don't get it do you?

Shall I explain it to you, LOL!?


hawkwind
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Oct 22, 2019, 2:00 AM

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A few links.

A five hour stream of Saturday's march

Speakers begin around the 2h58 (of the video) mark, the first of the 20 MPs who spoke from around 3h25 and the conclusion of the event is around 5h10.

The quality is fine apart from the odd short outages. Unfortunately several of those occurred during Michael Heseltine's speech so.................

Michael Heseltine's speech missing his opening remarks

Finally here is the Peoples Vote letter, referenced in the video.

(This post was edited by hawkwind on Oct 22, 2019, 2:02 AM)


Yatesman
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Oct 22, 2019, 6:36 AM

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A few links.

A five hour stream of Saturday's march


That's a lot of people who don't understand how Democracy works ..........Nowhere near 17.4million.

Unless Democracy is now defined by those with the means and the time to travel to London and ponce about in front of Parliament and the media!!


(This post was edited by Yatesman on Oct 22, 2019, 6:41 AM)


PaulC
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Oct 22, 2019, 9:47 AM

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Bills given more time by the Tories than the EU Withdrawal Bill:

The Wild Animals in Circuses Bill (2019).

People affected by the EU Withdrawal Bill - 65 million

Animals affected by the Wild Animals in Circuses Bill - 19, including one zebra, two camels, three raccoons and a zebu.


Yatesman
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Oct 22, 2019, 10:41 AM

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Bills given more time by the Tories than the EU Withdrawal Bill:

The Wild Animals in Circuses Bill (2019).

People affected by the EU Withdrawal Bill - 65 million

Animals affected by the Wild Animals in Circuses Bill - 19, including one zebra, two camels, three raccoons and a zebu.


It's practically the same deal as TM's so in theory its had plenty of scrutiny.

But any reason to drag this whole sorry saga out will no doubt be used and abused.


PaulC
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Oct 22, 2019, 10:47 AM

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Post #46 of 143 (2429 views)
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In Reply To
Bills given more time by the Tories than the EU Withdrawal Bill:

The Wild Animals in Circuses Bill (2019).

People affected by the EU Withdrawal Bill - 65 million

Animals affected by the Wild Animals in Circuses Bill - 19, including one zebra, two camels, three raccoons and a zebu.


It's practically the same deal as TM's so in theory its had plenty of scrutiny.

But any reason to drag this whole sorry saga out will no doubt be used and abused.


May's deal has already been rejected. The Johnson bits are even worse.

There is only one reason for curtailing scrutiny of the Bill.

It doesn't stand up to scrutiny.


(This post was edited by PaulC on Oct 22, 2019, 10:49 AM)


007Dale
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Oct 22, 2019, 5:25 PM

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Post #47 of 143 (2275 views)
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The key question is (after debating Brexit for 3.5 years): what is the likelihood that any MP is going to change his or her position whether the Withdrawal Bill is debated for 3 days or 3 months?

The positions are so entrenched, that itís doubtful indefinite further scrutiny is going to change anyoneís mind. For the 20 or so MPís who may be persuaded either way, Iíd suggest 3 days is long enough to read the 110 pages and make a decision one way or the other.

The 3 days doesnít provide long for amendments, but Iíd suggest that what is offered is the only deal capable of getting through Parliament. No amendments - either accept or reject the deal as presented.


007Dale
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Oct 22, 2019, 7:18 PM

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Post #48 of 143 (2241 views)
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Finally, we have a deal agreed by MPís:
329 v 299
Majority of 30


PaulC
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Oct 22, 2019, 7:56 PM

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Finally, we have a deal agreed by MPís:
329 v 299
Majority of 30


Donít be so blooming daft.

MPs have approved a second reading of the bill. Thatís all.


leohoenig
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Oct 22, 2019, 8:39 PM

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They have now democratically decided to look before they leap!



Fat AND Pompous.
The proof that you can have too much of a good thing
Now blogging at http://www.leohoenig.com



007Dale
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Oct 23, 2019, 8:04 AM

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I suspect weíll end up with a 3 month delay which will give us time to have a General Election.

The polls (although unreliable) seem to indicate consistent movement towards Boris Johnson, which has accelerated since his Ďdealí with the EU.

The latest poll (YouGov/Times) has Tories on 37%, Labour 22%, LibDem 19%, Brexit 11%, Green 7%.

This would translate into:
Tories 408 seats (majority 166)
Labour 135 seats
SNP 53 seats
Lib Demís 31 seats

Itís getting to the point where Labour NEED Brexit sorted before a General Election, otherwise their muddled position on Brexit will become their Achilles Heel.

The Tories and Lib Demís are happy to have a GE prior to Brexit being sorted as they have clear positions they can exploit.


jon b
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Relying on Opinion Polls for a GE win?

Maybe Johnson should ask Theresa May how well that works out.

.


Towlawtom
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Oct 23, 2019, 11:06 AM

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Isaac
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Oct 23, 2019, 11:25 AM

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This is funny! Leaver from Barnsley stating it's all about immigration but doesn't mind EU people coming over here.

And when has Syria and Iraq been in the EU?

https://twitter.com/andymacmichael/status/941729601952407553?s=19



I wonder where the 39 poor souls found dead in a lorry in Essex originated from? Syria and Iraq by any chance?


Towlawtom
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Oct 23, 2019, 11:32 AM

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Ok Isaac in light of what's happened this morning I have deleted my post.
It's upto you if you want to do the same!



I need to have the last word, as it always looks as if I am right !


Yatesman
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Oct 24, 2019, 7:01 AM

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Post #56 of 143 (1337 views)
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This is funny! Leaver from Barnsley stating it's all about immigration but doesn't mind EU people coming over here.

And when has Syria and Iraq been in the EU?

https://twitter.com/andymacmichael/status/941729601952407553?s=19



I wonder where the 39 poor souls found dead in a lorry in Essex originated from? Syria and Iraq by any chance?



TowLawTom has ( deliberately? disingenuously?) misinterpreted Barnsley Man's comments.

This is typical of the intellectual bullying and brow beating we have seen towards working class Leave voters over the past 3 years. This is a classic 'Field' interview where you ambush somebody going about their daily business and throw loaded questions at them that they are unprepared for.

The worst culprit of this form of disenfranchisement is probably James O'Brien who encourages callers onto his radio show and then vicimises them with his own brand of bullying using discredited police interrogation techniques such as :

a) Leading or loaded questions
b) minimisation or maximisation of an issue ( immigration for example)
c) Cognitive techniques
d) Using Lies ( Project Fear)

There are many others that interviewer use and J O'B compounds this by his use of intellectual brow beating.


Yatesman
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Ok Isaac in light of what's happened this morning I have deleted my post.
It's upto you if you want to do the same!



Barnsley Man was quite clearly NOT saying the muslim immigrants he wants to prevent are coming FROM the EU but was intimating that they come THROUGH the EU to the UK.

Meaning that because they travel across many, many EU borders he has concluded that there is EU collusion to ship Economic African Afghani and Syrian migrants straight in to the UK.

He believes LEAVING the EU will prevent that.

You deliberately , imo, misrepresented him.

My question to you is........WHY would you do that ?


PaulC
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Oct 24, 2019, 8:58 AM

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Post #58 of 143 (1283 views)
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This is typical of the intellectual bullying and brow beating we have seen towards working class Leave voters over the past 3 years. This is a classic 'Field' interview where you ambush somebody going about their daily business and throw loaded questions at them that they are unprepared for.

The worst culprit of this form of disenfranchisement is probably James O'Brien who encourages callers onto his radio show and then vicimises them with his own brand of bullying using discredited police interrogation techniques such as :

a) Leading or loaded questions
b) minimisation or maximisation of an issue ( immigration for example)
c) Cognitive techniques
d) Using Lies ( Project Fear)


O'Brien merely highlights the shear stupidity and empty-headedness of his pro-Brexit callers.


PaulC
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Oct 24, 2019, 9:04 AM

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[reply

Itís getting to the point where Labour NEED Brexit sorted before a General Election, otherwise their muddled position on Brexit will become their Achilles Heel.

The Tories and Lib Demís are happy to have a GE prior to Brexit being sorted as they have clear positions they can exploit.


And the SNP ... of course.

It's amusing listening to Johnson pleading to be allowed to have a GE. Labour aren't playing along and he is miffed.


Isaac
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Oct 24, 2019, 9:05 AM

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Post #60 of 143 (1273 views)
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In Reply To

This is typical of the intellectual bullying and brow beating we have seen towards working class Leave voters over the past 3 years. This is a classic 'Field' interview where you ambush somebody going about their daily business and throw loaded questions at them that they are unprepared for.

The worst culprit of this form of disenfranchisement is probably James O'Brien who encourages callers onto his radio show and then vicimises them with his own brand of bullying using discredited police interrogation techniques such as :

a) Leading or loaded questions
b) minimisation or maximisation of an issue ( immigration for example)
c) Cognitive techniques
d) Using Lies ( Project Fear)


O'Brien merely highlights the shear stupidity and empty-headedness of his pro-Brexit callers.


It's suspected that many of the calls to the James O'brien show are fake but some people are easily duped. Personally I never listen to him and it's a bit of a mystery as to why so many Brexiteers allegedly do.


Isaac
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Oct 24, 2019, 9:09 AM

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Ok Isaac in light of what's happened this morning I have deleted my post.
It's upto you if you want to do the same!


There has been other replies since I last logged in so not much point in removing it now and I'm not sure there is any reason to do so anyway?

Sadly something like this was almost inevitable, hopefully the police can get the bottom of the people trafficking racket that has been going on for years.


007Dale
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Post #62 of 143 (1262 views)
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[reply

Itís getting to the point where Labour NEED Brexit sorted before a General Election, otherwise their muddled position on Brexit will become their Achilles Heel.

The Tories and Lib Demís are happy to have a GE prior to Brexit being sorted as they have clear positions they can exploit.


And the SNP ... of course.

It's amusing listening to Johnson pleading to be allowed to have a GE. Labour aren't playing along and he is miffed.


Yep, heís frustrated, along with the rest of the country. Itís a very odd situation to be in;
1. The government doesnít command the support of the Commons and consequently canít do anything.
2. The opposition donít want a General Election because they know theyíll lose.

David Cameron has an awful lot to answer for.


PaulC
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Oct 24, 2019, 9:38 AM

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[

It's suspected that many of the calls to the James O'brien show are fake


By whom?


Isaac
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Oct 24, 2019, 9:40 AM

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Post #64 of 143 (1248 views)
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In Reply To
[

It's suspected that many of the calls to the James O'brien show are fake


By whom?


Quite a few people on the LBC Facebook page.


PaulC
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Oct 24, 2019, 9:41 AM

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Yep, heís frustrated, along with the rest of the country. Itís a very odd situation to be in;
1. The government doesnít command the support of the Commons and consequently canít do anything.
2. The opposition donít want a General Election because they know theyíll lose.


Then the government needs to win the support of the Commons just as the minority SNP government does at Holyrood.

Idiotic, catastrophic leadership by Johnson and his puppetmaster isn't the way.


PaulC
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Oct 24, 2019, 9:42 AM

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In Reply To

By whom?


Quite a few people on the LBC Facebook page.


LOL!


(This post was edited by PaulC on Oct 24, 2019, 9:50 AM)


jon b
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Oct 24, 2019, 11:03 AM

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Post #67 of 143 (1208 views)
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Barnsley Man was quite clearly NOT saying the muslim immigrants he wants to prevent are coming FROM the EU but was intimating that they come THROUGH the EU to the UK.

Meaning that because they travel across many, many EU borders he has concluded that there is EU collusion to ship Economic African Afghani and Syrian migrants straight in to the UK.


22 of the 28 EU states are members of the Schengen Area, with no passport or other border checks, 4 EFTA states are also members of the Schengen area.

Travelling across these borders is therefore just as simple as crossing the border from the Republic of Ireland to Ulster.

Once in the Schengen area refugees can go were they want to go. Stopping them coming into the Schengen Area has been the problem.

Erdogan of Turkey recently threatened to ship 3.6 million Syrian refugees on into the EU, if Greece were faced with such a catastrophic influx with consequent massive economic and social disruption they wouldn't prevent them moving on to other countries, they'd expect other richer european countries to share the influx.

.

Quote



jon b
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Oct 24, 2019, 11:04 AM

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Post #68 of 143 (1205 views)
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Barnsley Man was quite clearly NOT saying the muslim immigrants he wants to prevent are coming FROM the EU but was intimating that they come THROUGH the EU to the UK.

Meaning that because they travel across many, many EU borders he has concluded that there is EU collusion to ship Economic African Afghani and Syrian migrants straight in to the UK.

He believes LEAVING the EU will prevent that.


How?

.


hawkwind
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Oct 24, 2019, 11:14 AM

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Post #69 of 143 (1194 views)
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2. The opposition donít want a General Election because they know theyíll lose.


At this juncture they cannot possibly 'know' - but it would be accurate to say that based on opinion polls the Labour Party could well believe that there was a strong chance that they would lose.

Interestingly on Saturday Michael Heseltine dismantled all but one government objection to holding a confirmatory referendum pitting the PM's deal versus Remain. Which left the obvious. The one true reason the government don't want a confirmatory referendum is that they think they will lose it.


jon b
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Johnson presumably prefers a GE to another Referendum because he might well lose a Referendum but in a GE there's little likelihood of Labour or Liberal Democrats standing down to leave just one Remain candidate in constituencies.

.


007Dale
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Oct 24, 2019, 11:43 AM

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Johnson presumably prefers a GE to another Referendum because he might well lose a Referendum but in a GE there's little likelihood of Labour or Liberal Democrats standing down to leave just one Remain candidate in constituencies.

.


It is currently Labour policy to have a General Election before a referendum.

The SNP want a General Election.

The Tories want a General Election.

Why are we not having a General Election?


Isaac
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Oct 24, 2019, 11:50 AM

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In Reply To

In Reply To

By whom?


Quite a few people on the LBC Facebook page.


LOL!


I find it LOL that anybody listens to what was aptly described as a 'radio version of the Jeremy Kyle show' but it's a free country.


Isaac
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Oct 24, 2019, 11:54 AM

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Johnson presumably prefers a GE to another Referendum because he might well lose a Referendum but in a GE there's little likelihood of Labour or Liberal Democrats standing down to leave just one Remain candidate in constituencies.

.



There is absolutely no logical reason for another referendum, if the result of the first one isn't accepted why would the vote of the second one be and so on and so on?


jon b
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Johnson thinks he'll do better with a GE than a Referendum, why on earth should his opponents help him out?
.


jon b
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In Reply To
Johnson presumably prefers a GE to another Referendum because he might well lose a Referendum but in a GE there's little likelihood of Labour or Liberal Democrats standing down to leave just one Remain candidate in constituencies.

.


It is currently Labour policy to have a General Election before a referendum.

The SNP want a General Election.

The Tories want a General Election.

Why are we not having a General Election?


Before the Fixed Term Parliaments Act Prime Ministers called General Elections as and when they thought they stood best chance of winning.

Johnson would like to have this political advantage and call a GE now when he thinks he has best chance of winning, but the Fixed Term Act prevents him,

Oddly enough, the opposition parties want a GE when they stand best chance of winning. Given the number of unforced errors Johnson & Cummings have made so far, their opponents are happy to delay the GE and let them make more.

.


paulh66
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In Reply To
Johnson presumably prefers a GE to another Referendum because he might well lose a Referendum but in a GE there's little likelihood of Labour or Liberal Democrats standing down to leave just one Remain candidate in constituencies.

.


There is absolutely no logical reason for another referendum, if the result of the first one isn't accepted why would the vote of the second one be and so on and so on?


I'm completely indifferent to the notion of a second referendum but, when I hear the Brexit party itself saying Johnson's deal isn't what the leave voters wanted, and Anna Soubry and others saying that Johnson's deal doesn't deliver any of the pledges promised during the referendum campaign, it cannot sit comfortably with anyone that this deal delivers what the government is telling us the nation wants.

A referendum probably would help in that regard but a general election, where everyone puts their cards on the table and shows not only the merits of their positions on remain/leave but also how that interplays with their other policies, is probably a more robust means to settle it. Of course this would demand each party to have a fully thought-through, cohesive and transparent strategy for running the country. I shan't hold my breath.


(This post was edited by paulh66 on Oct 24, 2019, 2:10 PM)


PaulC
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The problem with a GE is this.

There is a majority now against Brexit. A binary referendum will show that we no longer want Brexit.

A GE is FPTP and non-binary. The pro-Brexit minority is concentrated in the Tories and BP. The anti-Brexit majority is spread over far more parties. The Tories may get only 35% support but will win a majority in Parliament.

Only a referendum reflects what the electorate thinks of Brexit.


Yatesman
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In Reply To

In Reply To
Johnson presumably prefers a GE to another Referendum because he might well lose a Referendum but in a GE there's little likelihood of Labour or Liberal Democrats standing down to leave just one Remain candidate in constituencies.

.


There is absolutely no logical reason for another referendum, if the result of the first one isn't accepted why would the vote of the second one be and so on and so on?


I'm completely indifferent to the notion of a second referendum but, when I hear the Brexit party itself saying Johnson's deal isn't what the leave voters wanted, and Anna Soubry and others saying that Johnson's deal doesn't deliver any of the pledges promised during the referendum campaign, it cannot sit comfortably with anyone that this deal delivers what the government is telling us the nation wants.

A referendum probably would help in that regard but a general election, where everyone puts their cards on the table and shows not only the merits of their positions on remain/leave but also how that interplays with their other policies, is probably a more robust means to settle it. Of course this would demand each party to have a fully thought-through, cohesive and transparent strategy for running the country. I shan't hold my breath.



I would be extremely angry if we have a second referendum .

Let's accept an absolute from now on this thread....

THERE IS NOT A DEAL OUT THERE OR YET UNTHOUGHT OF THAT WILL PLEASE EVERYONE!

There, now let's move the **** on.

We aren't going to get a deal to suit everyone so let's take the deal on offer that allows us to Leave in an orderly fashion.

The Brexit Party speaks for itself, not the 17.4 million.

We, the people, voted Leave because the whole of Parliament gave us that option.

They delegated that decision to the electorate. They handed that decision to us............just that once on that one issue we, the people , were asked to direct Parliament.

Having made our decision we then batted the ball back to Parliament to enact that decision. To negotiate a withdrawal from the EU.

Logic being that we , the UK, and the EU would negotiate in GOOD FAITH and with GOOD GRACE !

Therefore we voted Leave (details tba)

TBA in GOOD FAITH and with GOOD GRACE..

That's the only thing you can be assured the 17.4million voted for.
Any other claims of what the whole 174million voted for is bullshit.

The Government, as the executive, were to be the negotiators and Parliament was there to support the UK position.

Unfortunately Parliament has reneged on that responsibility

Time for a GE.

People vs Parliament


Yatesman
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The problem with a GE is this.

There is a majority now against Brexit. A binary referendum will show that we no longer want Brexit.

A GE is FPTP and non-binary. The pro-Brexit minority is concentrated in the Tories and BP. The anti-Brexit majority is spread over far more parties. The Tories may get only 35% support but will win a majority in Parliament.

Only a referendum reflects what the electorate thinks of Brexit.


We had a referendum

The result hasn't been enacted

Parliament has reneged on it's duty to the electorate

A GE will settle matters

People vs Parliament.


Isaac
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In Reply To
The problem with a GE is this.

There is a majority now against Brexit. A binary referendum will show that we no longer want Brexit.

A GE is FPTP and non-binary. The pro-Brexit minority is concentrated in the Tories and BP. The anti-Brexit majority is spread over far more parties. The Tories may get only 35% support but will win a majority in Parliament.

Only a referendum reflects what the electorate thinks of Brexit.


How arrogant of you to claim that another referendum would show that we no longer want Brexit. You don't know anymore than I do what the outcome would be but I think we can gaurntee one thing, whoever lost would refuse to accept it and we would actually be in a worse mess than we are now.


Isaac
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Johnson thinks he'll do better with a GE than a Referendum, why on earth should his opponents help him out?
.


His opponents aren't going to "help him out" as you put it because they know what the outcome would be.


Yatesman
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In Reply To

In Reply To
The problem with a GE is this.

There is a majority now against Brexit. A binary referendum will show that we no longer want Brexit.

A GE is FPTP and non-binary. The pro-Brexit minority is concentrated in the Tories and BP. The anti-Brexit majority is spread over far more parties. The Tories may get only 35% support but will win a majority in Parliament.

Only a referendum reflects what the electorate thinks of Brexit.


How arrogant of you to claim that another referendum would show that we no longer want Brexit. You don't know anymore than I do what the outcome would be but I think we can gaurntee one thing, whoever lost would refuse to accept it and we would actually be in a worse mess than we are now.


Don't forget Remainers have access to Crystal Balls.

They see things no-one else can!


PaulC
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We had a referendum

The result hasn't been enacted
.


Thatís just as well because the electorate has changed its mind.

What kind of people would inflict upon themselves that which they no longer want?

Madness.


PaulC
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In Reply To

In Reply To
The problem with a GE is this.

There is a majority now against Brexit. A binary referendum will show that we no longer want Brexit.

A GE is FPTP and non-binary. The pro-Brexit minority is concentrated in the Tories and BP. The anti-Brexit majority is spread over far more parties. The Tories may get only 35% support but will win a majority in Parliament.

Only a referendum reflects what the electorate thinks of Brexit.


How arrogant of you to claim that another referendum would show that we no longer want Brexit. You don't know anymore than I do what the outcome would be but I think we can gaurntee one thing, whoever lost would refuse to accept it and we would actually be in a worse mess than we are now.


Nothing arrogant on reporting the outcome of virtually every poll since 2017.


Yatesman
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In Reply To
We had a referendum

The result hasn't been enacted
.


Thatís just as well because the electorate has changed its mind.

What kind of people would inflict upon themselves that which they no longer want?

Madness.


Asked them all have you ?

No


Your faith in polls is charming but misguided

Polls are dodgy science

Not even pollsters themselves have the same misguided faith in polls as you seem to.

I would suggest that millions of Remaners accept the inevitability of Leaving the EU and just want it done.


(This post was edited by Yatesman on Oct 24, 2019, 6:46 PM)


Yatesman
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In Reply To

In Reply To

In Reply To
The problem with a GE is this.

There is a majority now against Brexit. A binary referendum will show that we no longer want Brexit.

A GE is FPTP and non-binary. The pro-Brexit minority is concentrated in the Tories and BP. The anti-Brexit majority is spread over far more parties. The Tories may get only 35% support but will win a majority in Parliament.

Only a referendum reflects what the electorate thinks of Brexit.


How arrogant of you to claim that another referendum would show that we no longer want Brexit. You don't know anymore than I do what the outcome would be but I think we can gaurntee one thing, whoever lost would refuse to accept it and we would actually be in a worse mess than we are now.


Nothing arrogant on reporting the outcome of virtually every poll since 2017.


The arrogance comes from the definitive conclusions based on the dodgy science of polling.


paulh66
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In Reply To
The problem with a GE is this.

There is a majority now against Brexit. A binary referendum will show that we no longer want Brexit.

A GE is FPTP and non-binary. The pro-Brexit minority is concentrated in the Tories and BP. The anti-Brexit majority is spread over far more parties. The Tories may get only 35% support but will win a majority in Parliament.

Only a referendum reflects what the electorate thinks of Brexit.


The problem with this is that it loses sight of the fact that Brexit is merely a means to an end, not an end in itself. The end being the country's future wellbeing. A GE gives us all the chance to see the full suite of policies proposed by the various parties for our future well being and decide accordingly. That's a far more robust way forward than a second attempt at governing by referendum, which will inevitably get bogged down again in dogma.

Of course if the winner of a GE stood on a manifesto that promised a second referendum then naturally a second referendum should take place.


PaulC
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Yet there are some who quote a single poll as evidence and then dismiss hundreds of polls because every one comes up with the wrong result.

LOL!


Yatesman
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Yet there are some who quote a single poll as evidence and then dismiss hundreds of polls because every one comes up with the wrong result.

LOL!


I don't quote a poll I quote a plebiscite.

As you know, I think polling is dodgy science, based on sound reasoning that I have explained before.

Therefore if one poll is dodgy science it stands to reason, logic and common sense that 100 polls is..............

...........Dodgy Science x 100!!

If you repeat the same behaviour 100 times you can expect the same outcome 100 times.

As referendums seem to have lost credibility in the UK due to lage numbers of the electorate not accepting the result and its consequences and due to large numbers of Leave voters stating very clearly that they would boycott a 2nd referendum then the only acceptable way to move forward is to have a GE.

A People vs Parliament GE.

All issues overed in a GE ..........

Brexit and all its consequences

Everything else too

The People vs Parliament...........Perfect!


jon b
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In Reply To
Johnson thinks he'll do better with a GE than a Referendum, why on earth should his opponents help him out?
.


His opponents aren't going to "help him out" as you put it because they know what the outcome would be.


True. Although maybe "suspect" rather than "know".

His opponents think he'll have less chance of winning a working majority if they delay the GE. by a few months.

.


paulh66
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At the risk of contradicting myself, I'd suggest the outcome of the next election will be the least predictable of my lifetime.


jon b
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We aren't going to get a deal to suit everyone so let's take the deal on offer that allows us to Leave in an orderly fashion



Now there, if nowhere else I agree with you.

Not because I see Brexit as beneficial to the UK but because France and numerous other EU member states now clearly just want us to go (to put it politely) and take our psychodrama with us.

We have to grab whatever deal we can work with and move on. However, the deal is just the beginning and not even the beginning of the end. Whether we'll even have a UK in a few years time, who knows.

.


jon b
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At the risk of contradicting myself, I'd suggest the outcome of the next election will be the least predictable of my lifetime.


I suggest you're absolutely right.

.


Tykeoldboy
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Oct 25, 2019, 12:05 AM

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In Reply To

In Reply To
The problem with a GE is this.

There is a majority now against Brexit. A binary referendum will show that we no longer want Brexit.

A GE is FPTP and non-binary. The pro-Brexit minority is concentrated in the Tories and BP. The anti-Brexit majority is spread over far more parties. The Tories may get only 35% support but will win a majority in Parliament.

Only a referendum reflects what the electorate thinks of Brexit.


We had a referendum

The result hasn't been enacted

Parliament has reneged on it's duty to the electorate

A GE will settle matters

People vs Parliament.


The referendum was not legally binding. Thereís no one source that can prove this statement true. That follows from the fact that the European Union Referendum Act 2015 didnít say anything about implementing the result of the vote. It just provided that there should be one.

In other countries, referendums are often legally bindingófor example, because the vote is on whether to amend the constitution. The UK, famously, doesnít have a codified constitution.

A UK referendum will only have the force of law if the Act setting it up says so. In practical terms this would mean someone would be able to go to court to make the government implement the result.

So, purely as a matter of law, neither the government nor Parliament has to do anything about the referendum.



The feeling of utter devastation when you pick up your mug and realise you already finished your tea.


Yatesman
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In Reply To

In Reply To

In Reply To
The problem with a GE is this.

There is a majority now against Brexit. A binary referendum will show that we no longer want Brexit.

A GE is FPTP and non-binary. The pro-Brexit minority is concentrated in the Tories and BP. The anti-Brexit majority is spread over far more parties. The Tories may get only 35% support but will win a majority in Parliament.

Only a referendum reflects what the electorate thinks of Brexit.


We had a referendum

The result hasn't been enacted

Parliament has reneged on it's duty to the electorate

A GE will settle matters

People vs Parliament.


The referendum was not legally binding. Thereís no one source that can prove this statement true. That follows from the fact that the European Union Referendum Act 2015 didnít say anything about implementing the result of the vote. It just provided that there should be one.

In other countries, referendums are often legally bindingófor example, because the vote is on whether to amend the constitution. The UK, famously, doesnít have a codified constitution.

A UK referendum will only have the force of law if the Act setting it up says so. In practical terms this would mean someone would be able to go to court to make the government implement the result.

So, purely as a matter of law, neither the government nor Parliament has to do anything about the referendum.


With respect, this issue has been debated many times on this forum.
It's been settled that the referendum was to be enacted and that was stated by the Gov't of the time and repeated by all the players in the game.

Since then an act of Parliament has been passed through Westminster to enable us to Leave the EU. ( The European Withdrawal Act 2018)............We are on the path to Leaving , a path now being blocked it has to be said


007Dale
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The order of resolution is:
1. General Election
2a. Enact Brexit policy of winning party
2b. If no outright winner, confirmatory referendum

If the country really has turned Ďremainí then enough Tory seats will be lost to the Lib Demís to stop an overall majority. Ergo, we need another referendum.

If however, a General Election is won by the Tories, we have the Boris Brexit as negotiated with the EU.

This Parliament no longer reflects what the people voted for in 2017 ie 84% of MPís elected on a promise to honour the result of the first referendum WITHOUT a confirmatory vote.


jon b
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Given the current state of the parties per Yougov etc I can understand why a first past the post General Election would appeal to Tory Brexiters rather than another Referendum.

The SNP and Lib Dems would probably also do ok in a GE, but why on earth would Labour turkey MPs vote for Christmas?

.


Yatesman
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In Reply To
The order of resolution is:
1. General Election
2a. Enact Brexit policy of winning party
2b. If no outright winner, confirmatory referendum

If the country really has turned Ďremainí then enough Tory seats will be lost to the Lib Demís to stop an overall majority. Ergo, we need another referendum.

If however, a General Election is won by the Tories, we have the Boris Brexit as negotiated with the EU.

This Parliament no longer reflects what the people voted for in 2017 ie 84% of MPís elected on a promise to honour the result of the first referendum WITHOUT a confirmatory vote.


That's exactly right.

Your point about hundreds of Labour MP's squatting in Parliament having misled their voters is right on the money!


Chris1963
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Given the current state of the parties per Yougov etc I can understand why a first past the post General Election would appeal to Tory Brexiters rather than another Referendum.

The SNP and Lib Dems would probably also do ok in a GE, but why on earth would Labour turkey MPs vote for Christmas?


Everyone seems to have forgotten about the Brexit Party. If they field candidates against the Tories, they may split the Tory vote and lead to a situation where the Lib-Dems hold the balance of power.


PaulC
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The order of resolution is:
1. General Election
2a. Enact Brexit policy of winning party
2b. If no outright winner, confirmatory referendum

If the country really has turned Ďremainí then enough Tory seats will be lost to the Lib Demís to stop an overall majority. Ergo, we need another referendum.

If however, a General Election is won by the Tories, we have the Boris Brexit as negotiated with the EU.

This Parliament no longer reflects what the people voted for in 2017 ie 84% of MPís elected on a promise to honour the result of the first referendum WITHOUT a confirmatory vote.


General Elections are FPTP. They are multi-issue. Brexit is but one issue.

A GE may well deliver a Tory majority with 35% of the votes. It does not mean the electorate has voted for Brexit.

They only way to discover what the electorate thinks of the reheated deal Johnson has come up with is to ask them ... via a referendum.


Isaac
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In Reply To

In Reply To
The order of resolution is:
1. General Election
2a. Enact Brexit policy of winning party
2b. If no outright winner, confirmatory referendum

If the country really has turned Ďremainí then enough Tory seats will be lost to the Lib Demís to stop an overall majority. Ergo, we need another referendum.

If however, a General Election is won by the Tories, we have the Boris Brexit as negotiated with the EU.

This Parliament no longer reflects what the people voted for in 2017 ie 84% of MPís elected on a promise to honour the result of the first referendum WITHOUT a confirmatory vote.


General Elections are FPTP. They are multi-issue. Brexit is but one issue.

A GE may well deliver a Tory majority with 35% of the votes. It does not mean the electorate has voted for Brexit.

They only way to discover what the electorate thinks of the reheated deal Johnson has come up with is to ask them ... via a referendum.


You only want another referendum because you didn't like the result of the first one. Whichever way it went the losers wouldn't accept it and we would be in an even bigger mess than we are now.

Meanwhile rumour has it that the All Blacks are demanding a people's semi final.


PaulC
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You only want another referendum because you didn't like the result of the first one. Whichever way it went the losers wouldn't accept it and we would be in an even bigger mess than we are now.


Meanwhile the Tories want a third General Election within the life of one fixed term parliament of 5 years. because they didn't like the result of the previous ones.

It's a funny old hypocritical world.


(This post was edited by PaulC on Oct 28, 2019, 1:24 PM)


jon b
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Meanwhile rumour has it that the All Blacks are demanding a people's semi final.


Really? Wow, I didn't realise Eddie Jones had been putting massive lies on the sides of buses.

.


PaulC
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Mark Francois "I looked him in the eye and said..."

https://m.facebook.com/...p;id=314028075829732


PaulC
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"October 31 Brexit 50p coins to be shredded and melted down by Royal Mint after EU grants extension"

https://www.itv.com/...-down-by-royal-mint/


007Dale
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Labour have finally caved, having been put under pressure by the Lib Demís and SNP. Weíll have a December General Election.

This is the right approach and finally everyone agrees.

Election first, Brexit second and if still not resolved, then a confirmatory referendum.

Expect polls to go up and down over the next six weeks. They might be showing a 100+ majority for the Tories at the moment, but I suspect the majority will be 20-30 in the end. Iím sure someone will dig up a poll during the next six weeks that shows labour in the lead.


PaulC
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Labour have finally caved, having been put under pressure by the Lib Demís and SNP. Weíll have a December General Election.


You're a tad premature.

It will depend on Johnson accepting unpalatable amendments - votes at 16/17 and votes for Eu citizens.

Too much like democracy for the Tories' liking.


Isaac
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In Reply To

You only want another referendum because you didn't like the result of the first one. Whichever way it went the losers wouldn't accept it and we would be in an even bigger mess than we are now.


Meanwhile the Tories want a third General Election within the life of one fixed term parliament of 5 years. because they didn't like the result of the previous ones.

It's a funny old hypocritical world.


A general election is totally different to a single issue referendum.


Isaac
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In Reply To

Meanwhile rumour has it that the All Blacks are demanding a people's semi final.


Really? Wow, I didn't realise Eddie Jones had been putting massive lies on the sides of buses.

.


Oh dear, you're not still clutching at that straw are you?


colpic
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Oct 29, 2019, 1:29 PM

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Post #110 of 143 (1253 views)
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In Reply To

In Reply To

Meanwhile rumour has it that the All Blacks are demanding a people's semi final.


Really? Wow, I didn't realise Eddie Jones had been putting massive lies on the sides of buses.

.


Oh dear, you're not still clutching at that straw are you?


Not still in denial that Brexit is predicated on a series of massive lies are you?



Where's the 'ignore this poster' button?


Isaac
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Oct 29, 2019, 1:57 PM

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Post #111 of 143 (1237 views)
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In Reply To

In Reply To

Meanwhile rumour has it that the All Blacks are demanding a people's semi final.


Really? Wow, I didn't realise Eddie Jones had been putting massive lies on the sides of buses.

.


Oh dear, you're not still clutching at that straw are you?


Not still in denial that Brexit is predicated on a series of massive lies are you?



Unlike remainers of course? I think you need to take off those rose tinted specs. Most people will agree that neither side came out of it smelling of roses


(This post was edited by Isaac on Oct 29, 2019, 2:36 PM)


007Dale
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Oct 29, 2019, 6:18 PM

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Labour have finally caved, having been put under pressure by the Lib Demís and SNP. Weíll have a December General Election.


You're a tad premature.

It will depend on Johnson accepting unpalatable amendments - votes at 16/17 and votes for Eu citizens.

Too much like democracy for the Tories' liking.


The eminently sensible deputy speaker has correctly concluded that you canít change the rules to suit and not selected the 16-17 and EU citizen amendments for vote.


Yatesman
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Oct 29, 2019, 6:35 PM

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You only want another referendum because you didn't like the result of the first one. Whichever way it went the losers wouldn't accept it and we would be in an even bigger mess than we are now.


Meanwhile the Tories want a third General Election within the life of one fixed term parliament of 5 years. because they didn't like the result of the previous ones.

It's a funny old hypocritical world.


No, typical distortion of reality.

An election is nothing like a referendum. It's a different type of plebiscite with different aims and outcomes.

To compare a referendum to a GE is borderline moronic.

Also. it's Parliament that has to agree to an election, as you well know, that means Labour, SNP and LieDumbs also need to want an election, for whatever reason, it hardly matters!


Yatesman
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Oct 29, 2019, 6:37 PM

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Labour have finally caved, having been put under pressure by the Lib Demís and SNP. Weíll have a December General Election.


You're a tad premature.

It will depend on Johnson accepting unpalatable amendments - votes at 16/17 and votes for Eu citizens.

Too much like democracy for the Tories' liking.


The eminently sensible deputy speaker has correctly concluded that you canít change the rules to suit and not selected the 16-17 and EU citizen amendments for vote.


Why on earth would anyone choose to allow children to vote in a GE ?

Sounds like a case of attempted child exploitation to me!


(This post was edited by Yatesman on Oct 29, 2019, 6:37 PM)


Yatesman
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Oct 29, 2019, 6:39 PM

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In Reply To

In Reply To

Meanwhile rumour has it that the All Blacks are demanding a people's semi final.


Really? Wow, I didn't realise Eddie Jones had been putting massive lies on the sides of buses.

.


Oh dear, you're not still clutching at that straw are you?


Not still in denial that Brexit is predicated on a series of massive lies are you?


Yes because our courts said the Bus slogan wasn't a lie.

No court has ruled that Remain didn't lie and haven't been lying for 3 years.


jon b
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Oct 29, 2019, 6:58 PM

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Post #116 of 143 (1109 views)
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To compare a referendum to a GE is borderline moronic.


It certainly is borderline moronic to try and fight a single issue GE.

.


PaulC
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Oct 29, 2019, 7:09 PM

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Why on earth would anyone choose to allow children to vote in a GE ?

Sounds like a case of attempted child exploitation to me!


LOL!


"Conservative Party allowing 15-year-olds to vote for PM despite opposing 16-year-olds voting in general election"

https://www.independent.co.uk/...ocrisy-a9007851.html

The party of hypocrites.


PaulC
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Oct 29, 2019, 7:57 PM

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Expect polls to go up and down over the next six weeks. They might be showing a 100+ majority for the Tories at the moment, but I suspect the majority will be 20-30 in the end. Iím sure someone will dig up a poll during the next six weeks that shows labour in the lead.


Well hereís the starting point compared to the start of the 2017 campaign. Tories down 7%, Labour down under1%

CON: 36.6% (-7.2)
LAB: 24.5% (-0.9)
LDM: 17.9% (+7.4)
BXP: 11.1% (+11.1)
GRN: 4.0% (+0.2)
UKIP: 0.7% (-10.1)

Curtice predicts

"A snap election will return more than a 100 MPs not from Labour or Tory. Whilst Corbyn can do a deal with a party to stop Brexit, Johnson cannot to do a deal to deliver Brexit. SNP predicted to clean up in Scotland."


Yatesman
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Oct 29, 2019, 8:12 PM

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Why on earth would anyone choose to allow children to vote in a GE ?

Sounds like a case of attempted child exploitation to me!


LOL!


"Conservative Party allowing 15-year-olds to vote for PM despite opposing 16-year-olds voting in general election"

https://www.independent.co.uk/...ocrisy-a9007851.html

The party of hypocrites.



Comparing the election of a leader of a political party by its paid up membership to a GE of the UK Parliament is borderline moronic.

I'm sure you can find other evidence of children voting maybe for which act on The Voice or which pairing on Strictly Come Dancing and proffer that as evidence that children should vote in a General Election!!!

Truth is kids are , if left to their own devices, not bothered about voting in a GE, any more than 18/19/20yr olds could be arsed to vote in the Referendum...but of course, certain lefty politicians know that young people are malleable, easily influenced and if they can motivate them with falsehoods, fears and targeted propoganda then they can be groomed, used and abused for purposes way beyond their ability and experience to comprehend.

I think we should let kids be kids for as long as possible.


PaulC
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Oct 29, 2019, 8:28 PM

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For someone resident in Scotland you seem remarkably ignorant of the success of extending the vote to 16/17 year olds in Scotland.

https://blogs.lse.ac.uk/...dence-from-scotland/

Just as there are many politically aware and thoughtful 16 and 17 year olds there are very many older voters who are hard of thinking and swallow the nonsense they are fed by the right wing media.

Age is no barrier to stupidity as the most recent referendum shows.


Yatesman
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Oct 29, 2019, 9:09 PM

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For someone resident in Scotland you seem remarkably ignorant of the success of extending the vote to 16/17 year olds in Scotland.

https://blogs.lse.ac.uk/...dence-from-scotland/

Just as there are many politically aware and thoughtful 16 and 17 year olds there are very many older voters who are hard of thinking and swallow the nonsense they are fed by the right wing media.

Age is no barrier to stupidity as the most recent referendum shows.


16/17 yr olds are only a couple of years away from voting legally so there really is no rush to get them on the electoral roll.

The Holyrood administration obviously likes a good stunt and giving 16yr olds the vote in their elections was a good example of that......Just like free prescriptions etc.

I agree with you that there are many intelligent, thoughtful and engaged 16 yr olds but typically ( the majority) they see politics in binary terms couched in moral extremism, not in a balanced and reasoning way .

FYI those many older ( and not so old) allegedly right wing ( such a pointless and outdated term) voters are almost certainly not influenced by anything other than their own vision of the world they want based on what their life experiences have taught them.
Your belief that an extremist liberal autocracy is the natural destination of society is the flawed and puerile POV.
We are a majority Conservative voting country because thats the type of society that the majority of people want to live in.

That's why we rejected the EU.

That's why we will reject Labour and the LieDumbs!


colpic
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Oct 29, 2019, 9:15 PM

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Post #122 of 143 (1014 views)
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In Reply To

In Reply To

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Meanwhile rumour has it that the All Blacks are demanding a people's semi final.


Really? Wow, I didn't realise Eddie Jones had been putting massive lies on the sides of buses.

.


Oh dear, you're not still clutching at that straw are you?


Not still in denial that Brexit is predicated on a series of massive lies are you?


Yes because our courts said the Bus slogan wasn't a lie.

No court has ruled that Remain didn't lie and haven't been lying for 3 years.


So that's a yes then. You are in denial.Smile



Where's the 'ignore this poster' button?


Yatesman
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Oct 29, 2019, 9:39 PM

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Post #123 of 143 (990 views)
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In Reply To

In Reply To

In Reply To

In Reply To

Meanwhile rumour has it that the All Blacks are demanding a people's semi final.


Really? Wow, I didn't realise Eddie Jones had been putting massive lies on the sides of buses.

.


Oh dear, you're not still clutching at that straw are you?


Not still in denial that Brexit is predicated on a series of massive lies are you?


Yes because our courts said the Bus slogan wasn't a lie.

No court has ruled that Remain didn't lie and haven't been lying for 3 years.


So that's a yes then. You are in denial.Smile


It's a No.

Your analaysis is flawed

Your claims are false.

But, You know that!

Are you at peace with yourself perpetuating a myth?


PaulC
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Oct 29, 2019, 9:53 PM

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The Holyrood administration obviously likes a good stunt and giving 16yr olds the vote in their elections was a good example of that......Just like free prescriptions etc.
bs!


LOL!

Reminiscent of the great George Foulkes:

Lord Foulkes:. "The SNP are on a dangerous tack at the moment, What they are doing is trying to build up a situation in Scotland where the services are manifestly better than south of the Border in a number of areas."

Interviewer ďIsnít that a good thing?Ē

Foulkes ďYes, but theyíre doing it delberately.Ē


colpic
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Oct 29, 2019, 10:21 PM

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Post #125 of 143 (972 views)
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In Reply To

In Reply To

In Reply To

In Reply To

In Reply To

Meanwhile rumour has it that the All Blacks are demanding a people's semi final.


Really? Wow, I didn't realise Eddie Jones had been putting massive lies on the sides of buses.

.


Oh dear, you're not still clutching at that straw are you?


Not still in denial that Brexit is predicated on a series of massive lies are you?


Yes because our courts said the Bus slogan wasn't a lie.

No court has ruled that Remain didn't lie and haven't been lying for 3 years.


So that's a yes then. You are in denial.Smile


It's a No.

Your analaysis is flawed

Your claims are false.

But, You know that!

Are you at peace with yourself perpetuating a myth?


I am indeed at peace with myself. Every post you write only reinforces my view that scrapping Brexit is the right option.

Thanks for asking though.

Speak again after the next Brexit extension?



Where's the 'ignore this poster' button?


Yatesman
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Oct 29, 2019, 10:27 PM

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Post #126 of 143 (1830 views)
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In Reply To

The Holyrood administration obviously likes a good stunt and giving 16yr olds the vote in their elections was a good example of that......Just like free prescriptions etc.
bs!


LOL!

Reminiscent of the great George Foulkes:

Lord Foulkes:. "The SNP are on a dangerous tack at the moment, What they are doing is trying to build up a situation in Scotland where the services are manifestly better than south of the Border in a number of areas."

Interviewer ďIsnít that a good thing?Ē

Foulkes ďYes, but theyíre doing it delberately.Ē


That would be hilarious except for the unforeseen consequences of a bankrupt and failing Scottish NHS and councils unable to raise funding therefore massive cutbacks in services.
Here in the Borders the NHS are mothballing wards, cutting beds in mental health provision and have to make millions in savings this year.
The Bordrs council is closing all its smaller children's parks. Services are being slashed and burned.........
All devolved services. All shambolic.

Its the same all over the People's Republic of Alba!


PaulC
Man City Transfer Target!


Oct 29, 2019, 10:53 PM

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Post #127 of 143 (1816 views)
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In Reply To

In Reply To

The Holyrood administration obviously likes a good stunt and giving 16yr olds the vote in their elections was a good example of that......Just like free prescriptions etc.
bs!


LOL!

Reminiscent of the great George Foulkes:

Lord Foulkes:. "The SNP are on a dangerous tack at the moment, What they are doing is trying to build up a situation in Scotland where the services are manifestly better than south of the Border in a number of areas."

Interviewer ďIsnít that a good thing?Ē

Foulkes ďYes, but theyíre doing it delberately.Ē


That would be hilarious except for the unforeseen consequences of a bankrupt and failing Scottish NHS and councils unable to raise funding therefore massive cutbacks in services.
Here in the Borders the NHS are mothballing wards, cutting beds in mental health provision and have to make millions in savings this year.
The Bordrs council is closing all its smaller children's parks. Services are being slashed and burned.........
All devolved services. All shambolic.

Its the same all over the People's Republic of Alba!


Remind us where Scotlandís block grant comes from.

Unlike Westminster, which has run up nearly £1 trillion in debt in the last 9 years the Scottish government must live within its means and can only spend what Westminster deigns to give the Scottish government.

As for Borders Council - Tory-run. Say no more.


jon b
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Oct 29, 2019, 11:09 PM

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Post #128 of 143 (1807 views)
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Yes because our courts said the Bus slogan wasn't a lie.

No court has ruled that Remain didn't lie and haven't been lying for 3 years.


No, they didn't.

All they did was refuse to act on a private prosecution brought against Johnson for "misconduct in public office".

When the private prosecution was thrown out by the courts, Justice Rafferty said the "problem of false statements in the course of political campaigning is not new" and that Parliament had enacted laws to deal with "certain false campaign statements which it considers an illegal practice".

However, she said this did not include false statements relating to publicly available statistics, and found that the district judge's decision would have "extended the scope of the offence of misconduct in a public office."

Regarding the £350 Million per week slogan on the bus Justice Rafferty stated that "there would have been no complaint if Mr Johnson had used a figure of £350 million per week gross, or £250 million per week net".

The slogan on the bus did neither.

As for your "no court has ruled that Remain didn't lie", I'm not aware of any cases brought before them trying to say that they did. Do you know of any?

Both sides during the campaign made wild exaggerated predictions, but the slogan on the bus simply wasn't true.

.


(This post was edited by jon b on Oct 29, 2019, 11:12 PM)


PaulC
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Oct 29, 2019, 11:11 PM

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No court has ruled that Remain didn't lie


Sometimes LOL! isn't quite enough.


jon b
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Oct 29, 2019, 11:25 PM

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The order of resolution is:
1. General Election
2a. Enact Brexit policy of winning party
2b. If no outright winner, confirmatory referendum


I'd have said a General Election is an inappropriate and clumsy way of trying to settle a one issue debate.

However, to judge by the recent increasingly bitter, poisonous and groundhog day debates in the House of Commons we have to try and purge some of the bile from Parliament.

Maybe we have no alternative but to see if the upcoming General Election will break the logjam, dispose of some of the deadwood and purge the atmosphere.

My nightmare though, is that we have a particularly vicious campaign followed by the hell of another hung Parliament. Frown

.


Yatesman
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Oct 30, 2019, 6:42 AM

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Post #131 of 143 (1699 views)
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In Reply To

No court has ruled that Remain didn't lie


Sometimes LOL! isn't quite enough.


I get your point but jon b has just admitted that the Remain campaign did lie, or wildly exagerate as he preferred to call it.

There's no moral high ground Remainers can take.

Obviously as the losing campaign there was never any need to take them to court, but there is enough evidence of Remainer lies out there.............Still going on,tbh, so as Leave has not been found to have lied and Darren Grimes was exonerated in court against the malicious charges brought by the discredited Electoral Commission, there is no mileage left in colpic's vexatious claim that Brexit is invalid.


(This post was edited by Yatesman on Oct 30, 2019, 6:44 AM)


Yatesman
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Oct 30, 2019, 6:46 AM

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Meanwhile rumour has it that the All Blacks are demanding a people's semi final.


Really? Wow, I didn't realise Eddie Jones had been putting massive lies on the sides of buses.

.


Oh dear, you're not still clutching at that straw are you?


Not still in denial that Brexit is predicated on a series of massive lies are you?


Yes because our courts said the Bus slogan wasn't a lie.

No court has ruled that Remain didn't lie and haven't been lying for 3 years.


So that's a yes then. You are in denial.Smile


It's a No.

Your analaysis is flawed

Your claims are false.

But, You know that!

Are you at peace with yourself perpetuating a myth?


I am indeed at peace with myself. Every post you write only reinforces my view that scrapping Brexit is the right option.

Thanks for asking though.

Speak again after the next Brexit extension?


You'll be voting LieDumb then?

Says it all !


Isaac
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Oct 30, 2019, 6:49 AM

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Post #133 of 143 (1692 views)
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Both sides during the campaign made wild exaggerated predictions, but the slogan on the bus simply wasn't true.

.


I do actually agree with you on that but the slogan on the bus was neither true or untrue, it was just a suggestion not a promise. It was at worst misleading but no more so than much of what has come out of the remain camp.


Yatesman
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Oct 30, 2019, 6:50 AM

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Post #134 of 143 (1691 views)
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In Reply To

In Reply To

In Reply To

The Holyrood administration obviously likes a good stunt and giving 16yr olds the vote in their elections was a good example of that......Just like free prescriptions etc.
bs!


LOL!

Reminiscent of the great George Foulkes:

Lord Foulkes:. "The SNP are on a dangerous tack at the moment, What they are doing is trying to build up a situation in Scotland where the services are manifestly better than south of the Border in a number of areas."

Interviewer ďIsnít that a good thing?Ē

Foulkes ďYes, but theyíre doing it delberately.Ē


That would be hilarious except for the unforeseen consequences of a bankrupt and failing Scottish NHS and councils unable to raise funding therefore massive cutbacks in services.
Here in the Borders the NHS are mothballing wards, cutting beds in mental health provision and have to make millions in savings this year.
The Bordrs council is closing all its smaller children's parks. Services are being slashed and burned.........
All devolved services. All shambolic.

Its the same all over the People's Republic of Alba!


Remind us where Scotlandís block grant comes from.

Unlike Westminster, which has run up nearly £1 trillion in debt in the last 9 years the Scottish government must live within its means and can only spend what Westminster deigns to give the Scottish government.

As for Borders Council - Tory-run. Say no more.


Scotland has tax-raising powers devolved to it.

The mess this region is in is of its own making.

Every council, Tory , SNP, LD are making cuts to services on a Thatcherite scale.

Education, Transport, Policing...........all devolved, All in a mess.

We are the Venezuela of Northern Europe!


PaulC
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Oct 30, 2019, 7:54 AM

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Post #135 of 143 (1658 views)
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[

Scotland has tax-raising powers devolved to it.

The mess this region is in is of its own making.

Every council, Tory , SNP, LD are making cuts to services on a Thatcherite scale.

Education, Transport, Policing...........all devolved, All in a mess.

We are the Venezuela of Northern Europe!


SO you favour more taxation in Scotland to make up for Westminster Tory cuts. Interesting. Scotland is already mitigating the worst of that Tory Westminster throws at us - the bedroom tax, for example

Meanwhile in England it's all going swimmingly.

"UK debt tops £2 trillion"

"Northamptonshire council has gone bust."

"The NHS in England overspent by £4.3bn last year"

You just don't know how lucky you are, choosing to live in SNP-led Scotland.


Yatesman
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Oct 30, 2019, 9:25 PM

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In Reply To
[

Scotland has tax-raising powers devolved to it.

The mess this region is in is of its own making.

Every council, Tory , SNP, LD are making cuts to services on a Thatcherite scale.

Education, Transport, Policing...........all devolved, All in a mess.

We are the Venezuela of Northern Europe!


SO you favour more taxation in Scotland to make up for Westminster Tory cuts. Interesting.


Is that you telling me what I'm saying again?

You're good at doing that, you!

I favour the SNP administration getting on with running this region for the benefit of it's residents and not using it as a platform to promote it's party political ambitions of division and exclusivism.

Funny that you choose not to live up here and yet have such a rose tinted view of Scottish life.


PaulC
Man City Transfer Target!


Oct 30, 2019, 11:43 PM

Posts: 11894
Location: Ayrshire, Midlothian
Team(s): AFC Darwen, Troon, Ayr Utd, Burnley

Post #137 of 143 (1443 views)
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Re: [Yatesman] The Brexit Tharead Mark 3 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


In Reply To

I favour the SNP administration getting on with running this region for the benefit of it's residents and not using it as a platform to promote it's party political ambitions of division and exclusivism.

Funny that you choose not to live up here and yet have such a rose tinted view of Scottish life.


Do you think the country's residents would benefit from paying English level tuition fees, English level prescription charges, English level personal home care costs, English level bedroom tax whilst enjoying English level NHS waiting times?

I choose not to live up here? LOL!


Yatesman
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Oct 31, 2019, 7:10 AM

Posts: 1619
Location: A Wee Toon in the Scottish Borders
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Post #138 of 143 (1372 views)
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Re: [PaulC] The Brexit Tharead Mark 3 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


In Reply To

In Reply To

I favour the SNP administration getting on with running this region for the benefit of it's residents and not using it as a platform to promote it's party political ambitions of division and exclusivism.

Funny that you choose not to live up here and yet have such a rose tinted view of Scottish life.


Do you think the country's residents would benefit from paying English level tuition fees, English level prescription charges, English level personal home care costs, English level bedroom tax whilst enjoying English level NHS waiting times?

I choose not to live up here? LOL!


All benefits for the middle classes.

Except for the bedroom tax which was designed to encourage folk to downsize to allow growing families to move in to larger properties.
As someone who has spent the week working in a one bed social housing association flat in Peebles for a young couple with a new born baby who are stuck there because their Housing Association doesnt have a larger property available to them I would say the Scottish Government bedroom tax subsidy is NOT working for some Scottish residents.

This is what happens when dogma smashes in to Common Sense!


PaulC
Man City Transfer Target!


Oct 31, 2019, 8:08 AM

Posts: 11894
Location: Ayrshire, Midlothian
Team(s): AFC Darwen, Troon, Ayr Utd, Burnley

Post #139 of 143 (1348 views)
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Re: [Yatesman] The Brexit Tharead Mark 3 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


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So when that child grows up you think it right it should have to pay £36,000 in tuition fees rather than £0 it would currently pay?

LOL!


Yatesman
First Team Star

Oct 31, 2019, 7:54 PM

Posts: 1619
Location: A Wee Toon in the Scottish Borders
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Post #140 of 143 (1128 views)
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Re: [PaulC] The Brexit Tharead Mark 3 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


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In Reply To

So when that child grows up you think it right it should have to pay £36,000 in tuition fees rather than £0 it would currently pay?

LOL!


Yes, when that child grows up it should pay for its higher education but only once its future earnings surpass a given threshold.

If it never earns it never pays.

If it pays it learns a valuable life lesson.


PaulC
Man City Transfer Target!


Nov 3, 2019, 9:21 AM

Posts: 11894
Location: Ayrshire, Midlothian
Team(s): AFC Darwen, Troon, Ayr Utd, Burnley

Post #141 of 143 (858 views)
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Re: [Yatesman] The Brexit Tharead Mark 3 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

Brexiteers: "We all knew what we were voting for."

May "Brexit means Brexit"

Johnson "I have a great Brexit deal"

Farage "This isn't Brexit."

LOL!


Yatesman
First Team Star

Nov 3, 2019, 10:54 AM

Posts: 1619
Location: A Wee Toon in the Scottish Borders
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Post #142 of 143 (823 views)
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Re: [PaulC] The Brexit Tharead Mark 3 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


In Reply To
Brexiteers: "We all knew what we were voting for."

May "Brexit means Brexit"

Johnson "I have a great Brexit deal"

Farage "This isn't Brexit."

LOL!


The Remain campaign for Simpletons ^^^ , LOL!


Theresa May a Brexiteer, LOL!


Intelligent input,Darling, LOL!


Would love to hear your world view on, say Islam, or Christianity, on Gender or on Human Rights.......In 4 sentences.......LMFAO!


steve walker
Administrator


Nov 3, 2019, 7:47 PM

Posts: 1851
Location: Staffordshire
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Post #143 of 143 (737 views)
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Re: [Yatesman] The Brexit Tharead Mark 3 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

Take it to PM we are all bored with the Yatesman v PaulC scenario that takes over every politics thread. It's supposed to be an open discussion and you two if you realise it or not are prohibiting that.

Steve

 
 


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