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Home: Non-League Football Discussion: Restructuring Discussion:
Appeals - Summer 2019

 

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New Forest
Youth Team Sub


Jun 17, 2019, 10:00 AM

Posts: 106
Location: Aldershot
Team(s): Leyton then Waltham Forest now Walthamstow

Post #451 of 532 (3250 views)
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RRe: [Geoff] Appeals - Summer 2019 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


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Common sense would suggest that as the ESL is short of a club and Barkingside may have been mislead they could be ideally placed to make up the numbers.
Off course, common sense is not a concept with which the Leagues Committee are familiar.


Very true, but you cannot use 'common-sense and ESL' in the same sentence. When it was announced that the Colney clubs were staying put the ESL said that Hadley would be moving across. They also mentioned Edgware Town. Then nothing, so what happened there? Where are Edgware going or playing? Does this mean that the ESL with just 19 clubs now leaves the door slightly open for Barkingside! Despite what has already been said.


Brightside
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Jun 17, 2019, 10:16 AM

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Location: North Essex
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Post #452 of 532 (3201 views)
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Re: [New Forest] RRe: [Geoff] Appeals - Summer 2019 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

There are due to be 76 teams promoted from Step 6 to Step 5 next season and 12 teams relegated but there are only 63 spaces, if Barkingside are reprieved then there will be only 62 spaces.

Sure there will likely be some clubs who drop out but they may need to change the promotion / relegation criteria



How 2020/2021 could look like (based on 2018/2019)

Non League Projections - 2020/21 - https://docs.google.com/...fAI/edit?usp=sharing

Step 1 - https://drive.google.com/...1zLX5Ju5&usp=sharing
Step 2 - https://drive.google.com/...REZzvDIU&usp=sharing
Step 3 - https://drive.google.com/...GYGtPp8H&usp=sharing
Step 4 - https://drive.google.com/...DJBN8cC-&usp=sharing
Alternative - https://drive.google.com/...vkdOju1Q&usp=sharing
Step 5 - https://drive.google.com/...I48iX_bL&usp=sharing
Step 6 - https://drive.google.com/...siBvGhTK&usp=sharing or https://drive.google.com/...pNmsB_JW&usp=sharing

(This post was edited by Brightside on Jun 17, 2019, 12:04 PM)


wazzafan
First Team Sub

Jun 17, 2019, 11:45 AM

Posts: 980
Location: Warrington
Team(s): Warrington Town

Post #453 of 532 (2996 views)
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Re: [Brightside] RRe: [Geoff] Appeals - Summer 2019 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

Yes at present they'll either be an extra relegation place or one less promotion place. Easily done of course based on PPG.

In truth I would be pleasantly surprised if the South West Peninsula League provided a full allocation of 4 teams eligible for promotion. But of course you can't assume they won't.



Non League Projections - 2018/19: http://goo.gl/5UvkvE

Step 1: http://goo.gl/9QipfY
Step 2: http://goo.gl/VoE1oY
Step 3: http://goo.gl/Ru3jUk
Step 4: http://goo.gl/QHVmDA
Step 5: http://goo.gl/VrnrYg
Step 6: http://goo.gl/Mk86of


BDA_85
First Team Regular

Jun 17, 2019, 1:47 PM

Posts: 1352
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Post #454 of 532 (2705 views)
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Re: [paulh66] Appeals - Summer 2019 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


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In Reply To

I have no reasons to doubt the man --- I am sure he was speaking in good faith. But if, as part of his role, he visits most ESL clubs, and says the same thing at all of them, then that may well be the source of Barkingside's conviction that they have been unfairly relegated.


This, plus the fact that the league still has the wrong year's regulations badged as 2018/19's in the 18/19 league handbook on its website (which thereby indicated only one team would be relegated, which somebody at the league was also adamant that the FA had assured them about).

If the league could provide proof of these so-called 'assurances from the FA' then Barkingside may have had a chance because of a compelling mitigating curcumstance. Though it does rather look like, at best, a case of miscommunication, and that the league itself has messed up.


Email received 11th April:

Thank you for showing an interest in Essex Senior League, The FA have advised that there will be one promotion and one relegation this season; I don't understand your comment re the regulations on the ESL webpage are for 2017/18 as I have just checked and verified that they are 2018/19 regulations.

Regards

Essex Senior Football League


(This post was edited by leohoenig on Jun 17, 2019, 5:06 PM)


windydcfc
Man City Transfer Target!


Jun 17, 2019, 1:51 PM

Posts: 10428
Location: Barnetby
Team(s): Derby County FC England Borussia MŲnchengladbach

Post #455 of 532 (2689 views)
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Re: [wazzafan] RRe: [Geoff] Appeals - Summer 2019 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


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Yes at present they'll either be an extra relegation place or one less promotion place. Easily done of course based on PPG.

In truth I would be pleasantly surprised if the South West Peninsula League provided a full allocation of 4 teams eligible for promotion. But of course you can't assume they won't.



Unless the FA have updated the original rules & regs for this season. There will be the 12 worst bottom placed clubs relegated from step 5 & the top 4 from each step 6 league except the SWPLís which will promote 2 apiece. Frimley Green have shown that appeals can be won if the FALC doesnít stick to the rules. Iím sure if the FALC tries to relegate 1 more step 5 team, or promote 1 less step 6 team, then thereíll definitely be an appeal by the club affected.


paulh66
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Jun 17, 2019, 2:00 PM

Posts: 19156
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Post #456 of 532 (2662 views)
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Re: [BDA_85] Appeals - Summer 2019 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


In Reply To

Email received 11th April:


I'm not sure what the point of this post is but there's surely no need to publicly hang out to dry any named individual connected to the league. It's blatantly clear to anyone who cares to look at the NLS Regs in the league's 2018/19 handbook that they've incorporated the wrong year's regs within it. And, since no evidence has emerged that the FA gave them any such assurances, it looks likely that the league has messed up.
EDIT - link to the league's 18/19 handbook: https://essexseniorleague.co.uk/...k/#handbook-contents. Navigation is via the menu on the left, NLS Regs are 11th tab down. Unfortunately they're 17/18's regs.


(This post was edited by paulh66 on Jun 17, 2019, 4:00 PM)


paulh66
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Jun 17, 2019, 2:42 PM

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Post #457 of 532 (2534 views)
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Re: [paulh66] Appeals - Summer 2019 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

Carlisle City have tweeted their appeal failed.


Richard Rundle
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Jun 17, 2019, 3:18 PM

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Post #458 of 532 (2434 views)
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Re: [BDA_85] Appeals - Summer 2019 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

Am I the only one who thinks putting a private email into the public domain is out of order?


SWP-Phil
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Jun 17, 2019, 4:30 PM

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Location: Exeter
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Post #459 of 532 (2251 views)
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Re: [Richard Rundle] Appeals - Summer 2019 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


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Am I the only one who thinks putting a private email into the public domain is out of order?


Quite agree Richard !



_______________________________________________

Follow the SW Peninsula League on Twitter: @swpleague

For all the News on the SW Peninsula League go to : www.swpleague.co.uk


leohoenig
Administrator

Jun 17, 2019, 5:07 PM

Posts: 13468
Location: Outer Cheltenhamshire
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Post #460 of 532 (2148 views)
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Re: [SWP-Phil] Appeals - Summer 2019 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

I Have edited the offending post, so as names are not named.
I do not think the e-mail itself should be taken as confidential



Fat AND Pompous.
The proof that you can have too much of a good thing
Now blogging at http://www.leohoenig.com



windydcfc
Man City Transfer Target!


Jun 17, 2019, 5:36 PM

Posts: 10428
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Post #461 of 532 (2065 views)
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Re: [leohoenig] Appeals - Summer 2019 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

Codicoteís appeal has failed. They were told that itís too late to move any clubs around by the FA. It was the FA arranged the appeal at this late point. The club feel well & truly screwed. They would even have considered a season in the ESL if offered, but that wasnít offered to them.


007Dale
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Jun 17, 2019, 6:06 PM

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Post #462 of 532 (1977 views)
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Re: [windydcfc] Appeals - Summer 2019 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


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Codicoteís appeal has failed. They were told that itís too late to move any clubs around by the FA. It was the FA arranged the appeal at this late point. The club feel well & truly screwed. They would even have considered a season in the ESL if offered, but that wasnít offered to them.


Iím assuming this is a one-sided re-telling of events, because otherwise it really doesnít seem remotely reasonable.


windydcfc
Man City Transfer Target!


Jun 17, 2019, 6:10 PM

Posts: 10428
Location: Barnetby
Team(s): Derby County FC England Borussia MŲnchengladbach

Post #463 of 532 (1959 views)
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Re: [007Dale] Appeals - Summer 2019 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


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In Reply To
Codicoteís appeal has failed. They were told that itís too late to move any clubs around by the FA. It was the FA arranged the appeal at this late point. The club feel well & truly screwed. They would even have considered a season in the ESL if offered, but that wasnít offered to them.


Iím assuming this is a one-sided re-telling of events, because otherwise it really doesnít seem remotely reasonable.



Codicote complained that they hadnít been given an appeal date via email & were then informed 15 minutes later that they were to attend an appeal meeting today. They told me that they were relegated because of geography(Iím sure this will come as a shock to no one).


Unicorn
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Jun 17, 2019, 6:26 PM

Posts: 3866
Location: Canterbury
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Post #464 of 532 (1905 views)
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Re: [windydcfc] Appeals - Summer 2019 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


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In Reply To

In Reply To
Codicoteís appeal has failed. They were told that itís too late to move any clubs around by the FA. It was the FA arranged the appeal at this late point. The club feel well & truly screwed. They would even have considered a season in the ESL if offered, but that wasnít offered to them.


Iím assuming this is a one-sided re-telling of events, because otherwise it really doesnít seem remotely reasonable.



Codicote complained that they hadnít been given an appeal date via email & were then informed 15 minutes later that they were to attend an appeal meeting today. They told me that they were relegated because of geography(Iím sure this will come as a shock to no one).


But someone posted on here on June 8 that it had come through as the 17th June.
How did they know.


AscotGuy
Junior Team Sub

Jun 17, 2019, 6:31 PM

Posts: 16
Location:
Team(s): Doncaster Rovers, Codicote

Post #465 of 532 (1880 views)
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Re: [Unicorn] Appeals - Summer 2019 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


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In Reply To

In Reply To

In Reply To
Codicoteís appeal has failed. They were told that itís too late to move any clubs around by the FA. It was the FA arranged the appeal at this late point. The club feel well & truly screwed. They would even have considered a season in the ESL if offered, but that wasnít offered to them.


Iím assuming this is a one-sided re-telling of events, because otherwise it really doesnít seem remotely reasonable.



Codicote complained that they hadnít been given an appeal date via email & were then informed 15 minutes later that they were to attend an appeal meeting today. They told me that they were relegated because of geography(Iím sure this will come as a shock to no one).


But someone posted on here on June 8 that it had come through as the 17th June.
How did they know.


I think the previous message wasn't very clear. On the 8th June, they tweeted that hadn't got a date for the appeal. Within 15 mins of the tweet, they were given an appeal date of today (17th).


AscotGuy
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Jun 17, 2019, 6:34 PM

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Post #466 of 532 (1867 views)
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Re: [windydcfc] Appeals - Summer 2019 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


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Codicoteís appeal has failed. They were told that itís too late to move any clubs around by the FA. It was the FA arranged the appeal at this late point. The club feel well & truly screwed. They would even have considered a season in the ESL if offered, but that wasnít offered to them.


Given that the SSML Prem Division is running with 21 teams, they could have run Div 1 with 21 teams as well without moving teams around.


Unicorn
Chelsea Transfer Target

Jun 17, 2019, 6:58 PM

Posts: 3866
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Post #467 of 532 (1797 views)
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Re: [windydcfc] Appeals - Summer 2019 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

That just leaves Kings Langley and Met Police.
Maybe they have happened and not been reported?


windydcfc
Man City Transfer Target!


Jun 17, 2019, 7:03 PM

Posts: 10428
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Post #468 of 532 (1772 views)
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Re: [AscotGuy] Appeals - Summer 2019 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


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In Reply To
Codicoteís appeal has failed. They were told that itís too late to move any clubs around by the FA. It was the FA arranged the appeal at this late point. The club feel well & truly screwed. They would even have considered a season in the ESL if offered, but that wasnít offered to them.


Given that the SSML Prem Division is running with 21 teams, they could have run Div 1 with 21 teams as well without moving teams around.



They also brought up the question about the ppg basis ruling for relegation & were told that it was badly written & didnít mean what everyone thought it did! The FA told them that they will be changing the rules this season.
Itís about time an independent body took these appeals.


paulh66
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Jun 17, 2019, 7:05 PM

Posts: 19156
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Post #469 of 532 (1761 views)
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Re: [Unicorn] Appeals - Summer 2019 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

The Met's appeal was supposed to be last week. Wouldn't mind betting Kings Langley's was too, given the league AGM was on Saturday (I know that principle didn't apply to Carlisle City's appeal but I have the impression steps 3/4 gets far more attention amongst the LC than steps 5/6).

But no news as yet....not that anyone's holding their breath about these particular ones, mind!


AscotGuy
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Jun 17, 2019, 7:12 PM

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Post #470 of 532 (1741 views)
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Re: [windydcfc] Appeals - Summer 2019 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


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In Reply To

In Reply To
Codicoteís appeal has failed. They were told that itís too late to move any clubs around by the FA. It was the FA arranged the appeal at this late point. The club feel well & truly screwed. They would even have considered a season in the ESL if offered, but that wasnít offered to them.


Given that the SSML Prem Division is running with 21 teams, they could have run Div 1 with 21 teams as well without moving teams around.



They also brought up the question about the ppg basis ruling for relegation & were told that it was badly written & didnít mean what everyone thought it did! The FA told them that they will be changing the rules this season.
Itís about time an independent body took these appeals.


So the rules were so badly written that numerous articles where published based on it and not once did the FA or any regional FA say that these were wrong.


windydcfc
Man City Transfer Target!


Jun 17, 2019, 7:17 PM

Posts: 10428
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Post #471 of 532 (1732 views)
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Re: [AscotGuy] Appeals - Summer 2019 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


In Reply To

In Reply To

In Reply To

In Reply To
Codicoteís appeal has failed. They were told that itís too late to move any clubs around by the FA. It was the FA arranged the appeal at this late point. The club feel well & truly screwed. They would even have considered a season in the ESL if offered, but that wasnít offered to them.


Given that the SSML Prem Division is running with 21 teams, they could have run Div 1 with 21 teams as well without moving teams around.



They also brought up the question about the ppg basis ruling for relegation & were told that it was badly written & didnít mean what everyone thought it did! The FA told them that they will be changing the rules this season.
Itís about time an independent body took these appeals.


So the rules were so badly written that numerous articles where published based on it and not once did the FA or any regional FA say that these were wrong.



Thatís what Codicote told me they were told at the appeal.


paulh66
Qatar World Cup bid member!


Jun 17, 2019, 7:24 PM

Posts: 19156
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Post #472 of 532 (1704 views)
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Re: [AscotGuy] Appeals - Summer 2019 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

To be fair if the FA went around correcting misinformation put out about the NLS Regulations it wouldn't have time to get anything else done. Doesn't help that different leagues put different versions of the regs on their websites, mind.

That aside, it's been clear all along that there is ambiguity in the regulations, particularly in how certain specific regulations are intended to interact with each other. If (and it's only if at this stage) the FA is now suggesting geography is intended to play a part then hopefully that's a signal that the hugely unsatisfactory ppg rationale for deciding things is only an interim measure while it transitions to the 'pure pyramid'. Long term, clubs have to know what they're playing for - X number go down from each division, Y number come up and Z number qualify for playoffs, no ifs buts or maybes other than for ground grading failures/resignations etc.


(This post was edited by paulh66 on Jun 17, 2019, 7:26 PM)


ladderman
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Jun 17, 2019, 7:40 PM

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Post #473 of 532 (1668 views)
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Re: [windydcfc] Appeals - Summer 2019 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

I presume if they told you the Moon Landing was filmed in my garage, you'd believe them. I'd suggest they're being a bit economical with the truth


windydcfc
Man City Transfer Target!


Jun 17, 2019, 7:49 PM

Posts: 10428
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Post #474 of 532 (1648 views)
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Re: [ladderman] Appeals - Summer 2019 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


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I presume if they told you the Moon Landing was filmed in my garage, you'd believe them. I'd suggest they're being a bit economical with the truth



If your garage was in the Arizona desert then yes I would believe it.


Carter
Junior Team Regular

Jun 17, 2019, 7:49 PM

Posts: 35
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Post #475 of 532 (1644 views)
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Re: [ladderman] Appeals - Summer 2019 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

The new regualations are here

http://handbook.fapublications.com/#!/book/30

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